Date: 06-08-20  Time: 14:07 PM

Author Topic: Swing arm Movement?  (Read 625 times)

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Swing arm Movement?
« on: 29 July 2020, 05:20:11 PM »
Hi
I seem to have some slight movement on one side of the swing arm, will this be the bearings?

coffee

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,946
  • Phil Bradbury,like road racing,ireland,music
    • Main bike:
      FZ1 Naked Gen2
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #1 on: 29 July 2020, 05:30:50 PM »
Wouldn't know for certain but I wouldn't have thought any play was built in so I'd go for bearings or bushes whatever's in there.
never look down on anyone unless you're helping them up.

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,055
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #2 on: 29 July 2020, 06:13:23 PM »
Max 1mm of play at the end of the swingarm.  Basically if you can feel any knocking at all and the shaft is correctly torqued, your bearings are shot.  Make sure you don't confuse swingarm play with wheel bearing play.   
Later

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #3 on: 29 July 2020, 07:32:40 PM »
Max 1mm of play at the end of the swingarm.  Basically if you can feel any knocking at all and the shaft is correctly torqued, your bearings are shot.  Make sure you don't confuse swingarm play with wheel bearing play.
There is a knock when I pull the swing arm to the left

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,055
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #4 on: 29 July 2020, 08:32:49 PM »
How much movement at the swingarm end?  Check the swingarm pivot nut for correct torque, i.e. loosen it and re-torque it, does it still move/knock?

It's possible the bearings have become dry, due to a failed thrust/cover seal or lack of maintenance.  If you're lucky and you've caught it in time a repack of grease and the seals are ok (check if they're dry/going brittle replace) you may get away with it, but it's also very possible they're shot and you'll have to replace the bearings and thrust/covers.  You should be ok with the pivot shaft, but it's possible it's damaged too, depending how bad a going over with fine wet/dry may sort it, but if it worn by more than a few thou it's also buggered, if you use it and it's worn it will bugger the new bearings in short order.     



 
Later

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #5 on: 30 July 2020, 11:25:02 AM »
I've ordered some new bearings, I'll have a look at the pivot shaft when I take it apart when the bearings come.
Will I be ok to take the swing arm off with the bike on the center stand?


Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,055
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #6 on: 30 July 2020, 11:35:39 AM »
I've ordered some new bearings, I'll have a look at the pivot shaft when I take it apart when the bearings come.

Don't forget to check the thrust/cover seals, it's bee a while since I taken them off but I'm fairly certain there's a seal built in, if it's buggered they'll need replacing and you don't want to have to do the job again ;)

Quote
Will I be ok to take the swing arm off with the bike on the centre stand?

Yes, just make sure you take off any top boxes/panniers etc and bungee/cable tie the front level also be aware with lateral pushing/pulling.  ;)  The swingarm should come out fairly easily, if you're forcing anything it's wrong stop and recheck  :)   

« Last Edit: 30 July 2020, 11:37:21 AM by Gnasher »
Later

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #7 on: 30 July 2020, 05:07:01 PM »
I've ordered some new bearings, I'll have a look at the pivot shaft when I take it apart when the bearings come.

Don't forget to check the thrust/cover seals, it's bee a while since I taken them off but I'm fairly certain there's a seal built in, if it's buggered they'll need replacing and you don't want to have to do the job again ;)

Quote
Will I be ok to take the swing arm off with the bike on the centre stand?

Yes, just make sure you take off any top boxes/panniers etc and bungee/cable tie the front level also be aware with lateral pushing/pulling.  ;)  The swingarm should come out fairly easily, if you're forcing anything it's wrong stop and recheck  :)
Thank you for the advice, not done anything like this before, looked at a few vids and diagrams looks pretty straight forward, so I'll keep you updated how things go

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #8 on: 01 August 2020, 08:40:33 AM »
Will I be ok to follow these steps or will I need to do or should do anything differently as this looks like a 600?
https://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=72.0

red98

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,404
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - fzs600, hon400/4, suzX7, honCB
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #9 on: 01 August 2020, 08:48:23 AM »
morning WAYNE, yes that`s a 600 Fazer and a very good guide with some very useful tips...slow but sure is the way to go, if you get stuck or are unsure about anything just ask on here...let us know how you get on.
One, is never going to be enough.....

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,055
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #10 on: 01 August 2020, 09:02:19 AM »
Will I be ok to follow these steps or will I need to do or should do anything differently as this looks like a 600?
https://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=72.0


Not a bad guide  :)

I would add clean the whole back end first, I mean proper de-grease and jet wash the under tray, get off all the old chain lub and dirt.   
Later

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #11 on: 01 August 2020, 11:37:47 AM »
Will I be ok to follow these steps or will I need to do or should do anything differently as this looks like a 600?
https://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=72.0


Not a bad guide  :)

I would add clean the whole back end first, I mean proper de-grease and jet wash the under tray, get off all the old chain lub and dirt.   
Ok so having a look around while waiting for the bearings to come, in case I'd need the pivot shaft, in the guide he calling the pivot shaft wrong?He has the bush and bearing and the pivot shaft is the one that bolts the swing arm on with the bolt on?

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,055
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #12 on: 01 August 2020, 02:36:44 PM »
Ok so having a look around while waiting for the bearings to come, in case I'd need the pivot shaft, in the guide he calling the pivot shaft wrong?He has the bush and bearing and the pivot shaft is the one that bolts the swing arm on with the bolt on?

The bush (pivot shaft/s) new/old in the picture are at the bottom, the bolt or officially named pivot shaft is above these, with a washer and nut on, it goes through the bush (pivot shaft) which is hollow.

Look here https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4175435/fzs1000-fazer-5lv8-2002-080-a/rear-arm bush is No 2, pivot shaft No 5.
Later

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #13 on: 01 August 2020, 03:16:28 PM »
Ok so having a look around while waiting for the bearings to come, in case I'd need the pivot shaft, in the guide he calling the pivot shaft wrong?He has the bush and bearing and the pivot shaft is the one that bolts the swing arm on with the bolt on?

The bush (pivot shaft/s) new/old in the picture are at the bottom, the bolt or officially named pivot shaft is above these, with a washer and nut on, it goes through the bush (pivot shaft) which is hollow.

Look here https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/4175435/fzs1000-fazer-5lv8-2002-080-a/rear-arm bush is No 2, pivot shaft No 5.
Yes thats what I was looking at, but he said he got a new pivot shaft No. 5 but it shows a new Bush No.2 and not a pivot shaft No.5 , which are two different items.

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #14 on: 03 August 2020, 05:02:58 PM »
Taken back wheel off to have a look and it looks like the arm relay bearings ? :rolleyes

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,055
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #15 on: 03 August 2020, 05:11:26 PM »
T looks like the arm relay bearings ? :rolleyes


??
Later

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #16 on: 03 August 2020, 06:36:59 PM »
T looks like the arm relay bearings ? :rolleyes


??
Yep, its not the pivot shaft bearings its the arm relay bearings

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,055
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #17 on: 03 August 2020, 06:47:08 PM »
Mate if the end of the swingarm is moving side to side it's not the shock relay bearing.  Now hold a minute, when you say your swingarm is moving are you meaning up and down or side to side? 


 
Later

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #18 on: 03 August 2020, 06:53:17 PM »
Mate if the end of the swingarm is moving side to side it's not the shock relay bearing.  Now hold a minute, when you say your swingarm is moving are you meaning up and down or side to side?
Sorry yes its up and down

b1k3rdude

  • Foc-u Helpful Foccer
  • Global Moderator
  • GP Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,565
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - GSF 1250
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #19 on: 03 August 2020, 07:18:43 PM »
Gnasher will correct me where Im wrong or am bike agnostic -

But that could be the swing arm bearing, one of the bearings in the suspension linkages, or possibly even a rear wheel bearing. When you say you have up/down play how are you seeing/feeling this..? When an MOT tester checks all of the above for free-play, they stand behind the bike and put both hands on the rim of the rear wheel and gently but firmly pull upwards a few times. And as others have asked, how much free play are you seeing/feeling? If the movement is almost imperceptible, then that's most likely an MOT advisory. But back to narrowing down where the play is -

  • If you haven't done so already the first thing to so is remove the rear wheel, then with the sprocket carrier and axel in-place put your knee/chest on the top of the wheel and again pully gently but firmly on the axel and check for free-play - there should be none that you can feel, if there is you should replace all the wheel bearing as you can replace just one (good pattern bearings are cheap enough now)
  • When the rear wheel out same as before grab the ends of the swing-arm and check for free-play. If you feel any its either a linkage bearing or swing-arm bearing.
  • Remove the suspension linkage and using the bolts that go through the roller bearing check for lateral movement, as in up/down or diagonally. If there is any movement the bearings and/or the bolts will need to be replaced. Note - I think the bearings in the linkage may need to be pressed out and new ones pressed in, but don't quote me on this.
  • If your wheel bearings and your suspension linkage bearings are fine, then that only leave the swing arm bearings. The only test I can think that 'might' show wear is to hold both arms and try a gently but firm twisting motion. If there is any free-play then replace the bearing and check the swing-arm excel for wear.
« Last Edit: 03 August 2020, 07:20:31 PM by b1k3rdude »

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #20 on: 03 August 2020, 07:25:30 PM »
Gnasher will correct me where Im wrong or am bike agnostic -

But that could be the swing arm bearing, one of the bearings in the suspension linkages, or possibly even a rear wheel bearing. When you say you have up/down play how are you seeing/feeling this..? When an MOT tester checks all of the above for free-play, they stand behind the bike and put both hands on the rim of the rear wheel and gently but firmly pull upwards a few times. And as others have asked, how much free play are you seeing/feeling? If the movement is almost imperceptible, then that's most likely an MOT advisory. But back to narrowing down where the play is -

  • If you haven't done so already the first thing to so is remove the rear wheel, then with the sprocket carrier and axel in-place put your knee/chest on the top of the wheel and again pully gently but firmly on the axel and check for free-play - there should be none that you can feel, if there is you should replace all the wheel bearing as you can replace just one (good pattern bearings are cheap enough now)
  • When the rear wheel out same as before grab the ends of the swing-arm and check for free-play. If you feel any its either a linkage bearing or swing-arm bearing.
  • Remove the suspension linkage and using the bolts that go through the roller bearing check for lateral movement, as in up/down or diagonally. If there is any movement the bearings and/or the bolts will need to be replaced. Note - I think the bearings in the linkage may need to be pressed out and new ones pressed in, but don't quote me on this.
  • If your wheel bearings and your suspension linkage bearings are fine, then that only leave the swing arm bearings. The only test I can think that 'might' show wear is to hold both arms and try a gently but firm twisting motion. If there is any free-play then replace the bearing and check the swing-arm excel for wear.
It looks like the suspension linkage, I'll do a video tomorrow of it moving if this would help?

b1k3rdude

  • Foc-u Helpful Foccer
  • Global Moderator
  • GP Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,565
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - GSF 1250
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #21 on: 03 August 2020, 07:31:08 PM »
Sure, but I think we will only able to see any play if its 'really' bad. If its just normal wear that requires replacement of any of the bearings you will mostly likely only be able to feel this and not see it.

WayneUK

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 82
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #22 on: 03 August 2020, 07:41:53 PM »
Sure, but I think we will only able to see any play if its 'really' bad. If its just normal wear that requires replacement of any of the bearings you will mostly likely only be able to feel this and not see it.
You can see it moving as I have had someone to move it up and down while I had a look

Gnasher

  • Foc-u Brake Doctor
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,055
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • - ZX10R, XJR1300
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #23 on: 03 August 2020, 08:24:32 PM »
If you grab the end of the swingarm and lift it will move slightly about 1-2mm that's normal.  If it's knocking so you can hear it and moves more than 2mm but less than 4mm it's more than likely the bearings need repacking and/or the seals on the linkages have failed. 

It's all about tolerance and there must be some play to allow for the grease, they're 4 bearings if each has 0.5 that's 2mm at the end of the swingarm. Most cases they just need repacking and the seals replacing, these are 12k service items, often not done.  You'll have to check each bearing and pin for wear, if they're gritty, rusted, damaged (the needles drop out as you remove the pins) or there's more than 0.5mm play without repacking with grease, they're shot.
Later

b1k3rdude

  • Foc-u Helpful Foccer
  • Global Moderator
  • GP Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,565
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - GSF 1250
    • View Profile
Re: Swing arm Movement?
« Reply #24 on: 03 August 2020, 09:37:51 PM »
@Gnasher, can the bearing in the linkage arm be pushed out with your fingers..? or is a press-out, press-in affair..?