Date: 06-08-20  Time: 14:36 PM

Author Topic: Engine Noise  (Read 962 times)

Gnasher

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #25 on: 23 June 2020, 07:36:46 AM »
Try it yourself if you don't believe me, you might even save a few quid in the process.  :lol


Thanks but no thanks, I'll not recommend this oil to anyone, you fill your boots  ;)
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FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #26 on: 28 June 2020, 06:52:05 PM »
Carbs balanced, improved response and sound, especially with the new silencer.

Still some rattle noise, tried hitting the kill switch when moving to check if it wasn't engine related and something tapping the frame. The noise goes with the engine off so either it is a component or something being vibrated by the engine running.

I'm not sure the fuel pump is behaving as it should. It seems to prime for longer than I would expect, if I haven't started the bike on half hour it will repeat a loud clicking for a couple of seconds, if I leave overnight this can last 5-10 seconds but I didn't use the bike for near a week and it went on for maybe 20 seconds of clicking. When engine is running it doesn't struggle for fuel so seems to work, but then understand a fuel pump impeller can create a rattle if faulty so may link. Also, had the tank near empty (nothing registering on the gauge) when I went out earlier, I'm convinced the sound was louder but it didn't go instantly when filled up, by the time I got back the engine was hot and the noise had gone.

Also, oil level. Left the bike and oil level went above the sight glass, took for a short run but enough to get engine hot, next day just under the max line again. Not sure why oil level would fluctuate up and down without adding or removing any.



darrsi

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #27 on: 28 June 2020, 07:34:12 PM »
Just to cross it off the list I would check that no fuel pipe is kinked in any way under the tank.
Also make sure the tap is switched fully on.


Oil level should be checked after running the engine for a minute then switching off and let it quickly settle.
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FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #28 on: 28 June 2020, 08:03:03 PM »
No kinks, checked that when I balanced the carbs, all looks fine. Also, put some carb cleaner through the air box.


Wonder how much of this is due to old fuel, etc which may have been stagnant in the bike. I've gone through a full tank and a bit since i've had it and I've literally done more on it in three weeks than the last three years have seen. Keep using it and may shift it, or try some additive maybe. 


But then the more I look in to things the more potentials I find. The exhaust header plates were obviously overtightened for the middle two and have cracks in them, can't feel any air escaping in the short time it takes for them to get to hot to check, but that's something else which makes a ticking noise which is s


I'm conscious of keeping throwing money at it and there being an underlying issue.

darrsi

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #29 on: 28 June 2020, 08:11:28 PM »
Regarding the fuel, have you checked the tank air vent is clear? If it wasn't it might struggle at first to pump the fuel if it can't breathe properly?


Next time you start the bike from cold, carefully try starting it with the fuel cap opened and see if the pump works more efficiently.
« Last Edit: 28 June 2020, 08:13:36 PM by darrsi »
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FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #30 on: 28 June 2020, 08:23:44 PM »
I'll get some compressed air and check the Hoses, will need to let the fuel level drop to ensure the tank connections aren't blocked... Mines 99 so has the hoses from the base, they changed around 2000 I believe.

I'll check the cap open. Starting isn't really a problem, give it a little throttle but nothing I'd consider a problem. It's just the amount of clicking, seems abnormal.

FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #31 on: 10 July 2020, 03:42:16 PM »
Sorry this has taken so long, work has been manic.

The fuel pump behaviour has changed, clicks loudly for longer :rolleyes , filler open or closed it does the same. I switch the ignition on and the pump runs (great, if loud), if I turn off and back on several times it repeats the process for the same length of time roughly every time.  My understanding of the operation is that it works on pressure and shouldn't lose it that quickly. When I first got the bike it would click a couple of times each time turned the ignition on (shorter when warm or had not long before primed) as I would expect, not sure why it's doing this now. It is quite loud, video:  https://youtu.be/vI0JQTH54Bk.  Bike runs fine but don't want to get stranded with a dead pump. Any ideas?

As far as engine is concerned, took it to a mechanic for a listen today, said it was likely the cam chain (https://youtu.be/l4SvuQYGRm4), Suggested loosening the two mounting bolts on the tensioner until clicks on the auto rachet, then wind the mounts back in. Not heard of this method before but would be easier than removing everything to get to it! Any thoughts on this?

Gnasher

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #32 on: 10 July 2020, 04:05:49 PM »
Sorry this has taken so long, work has been manic.

The fuel pump behaviour has changed, clicks loudly for longer :rolleyes , filler open or closed it does the same. I switch the ignition on and the pump runs (great, if loud), if I turn off and back on several times it repeats the process for the same length of time roughly every time.  My understanding of the operation is that it works on pressure and shouldn't lose it that quickly. When I first got the bike it would click a couple of times each time turned the ignition on (shorter when warm or had not long before primed) as I would expect, not sure why it's doing this now. It is quite loud, video:  https://youtu.be/vI0JQTH54Bk.  Bike runs fine but don't want to get stranded with a dead pump. Any ideas?


It's sounds to me as if your pump has had it's day and is indeed not holding pressure.

Quote
As far as engine is concerned, took it to a mechanic for a listen today, said it was likely the cam chain (https://youtu.be/l4SvuQYGRm4), Suggested loosening the two mounting bolts on the tensioner until clicks on the auto rachet, then wind the mounts back in. Not heard of this method before but would be easier than removing everything to get to it! Any thoughts on this?

Don't do this, you run a high risk of over tensioning and that will bugger the chain and the blades.  Now I'm saying this chap is trying a fast one and he could be right but it's very common practice, they tell you it's your cam chain and it's not.  They know it charge you for the work and all the do is take the cam cover off, reset the tensioner, reset the air mixture screws and balance the carbs.  Job done and you're a good few £100 light.

How many miles as the bike done?  Cam chains on Fazers are good for 70k easy I look after one with 85k still on original cam chain.  Fazer's do make cam chain noises when the carbs and mixture screws are out and they can the tensioner can get stuck between teeth.  Get the crabs balanced first (not be this chap) then take it out an and reset it as per the manual, or put it in second gear and turn the rear wheel backwards by hand.

If none of that works it's very likely it's the cam chain.     
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FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #33 on: 10 July 2020, 04:30:20 PM »
Thanks for the info Gnasher.   New pump it is then, figure the relay is doing what it should as bike is running. Didn't realise the pump itself lost pressure, thought it may be somewhere else but there are no leaks.

The bike is showing 17k so wouldn't expect a new chain, may just be waiting for the next click, I don't know but it is frustrating and would like to confirm it's nothing else I should be concerned about. MOTs back to 2006 fit the mileage so think it's legit, it's done 500 miles over the last 3 years and 4000 over the last 9 years by the paperwork.

I'm pretty sure the rattle while riding is getting worse but the fuel pump is also getting worse at startup, hopefully they may be one in the same thing.

I'm a long time off bikes until recently, getting back in to it now so don't have a trusted mechanic, the guy I took it to seems to have a good reputation locally.

Gnasher

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #34 on: 10 July 2020, 05:00:33 PM »
17k I'd say there's almost no chance of it being the cam chain and he should know that, sadly he's smelling money.  I wouldn't use him again find someone else would be my advice.

Most Fazer's suffer the tensioner issue because they aren't revved enough, the engine likes revs, once warm give them plenty say like 8k 10k in second a few times a week.  Just reset the tensioner as per the manual there's a link on here somewhere.

Get the crabs properly balanced and I think you're find the noise will go.  You also mention a rattle, another big issue with boxeye Fazer's is the front indicators rattle in the firing mounts, because the foam that's supposed to stop it, is too thin and it degrades.  A The best fix is to use silicone, nice neat dollop around the inner interface and that will stop them rattling once set.  Next check the drive chain, Fazer's are very sensitive to over tight chains and wheel alignment.  You want about between 40 -45mm of play when the chain is pushed/pulled, forget the marks in the swing arm.  Measure from the centre of the wheel spindle to the edge of the swingarm where the drive chain puller plate interfaces with the swingarm. 

Good luck let us know how you get on.   
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bazza

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #35 on: 10 July 2020, 05:27:57 PM »
noise sounds very much like tensioner, personally i wouldnt worry too much it will click on. also it looks like you still have original ht leads, they could be arcing which makes similar noise but you would probably notice when running, but either way get some ngk ones because they will fail soon. if you havent got your carbtune yet then get it from official website, cheaper than ebay and you know your getting a real one. http://www.carbtune.co.uk/

FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #36 on: 10 July 2020, 06:33:23 PM »
The guy didn't ask the mileage, just listened to it so guess could give him the benefit of the doubt, but you may be right, I need to find a reputable local mechanic. Was trying to avoid taking the carbs, etc out to get to the tensioner but it seems that's not possible especially with my hands. Been giving it some revs since I've had it, it's not in daily use, but most weekends this time of year it will get some use. Perhaps see how it goes over the next few hundred miles and if it doesn't shift I'll get the tensioner off and check it.


Interesting you say about the indicators, didn't know that, will be done this weekend, got some black silicone in the garage. The chain alignment marks are not accurate then, I'll check that, shouldn't be out as chain and sprockets were recent when I bought it but best to check.
Had the carbtune on it today, TPS was also out. At idle it's around 180 mark, had to take it up to about 2.5k revs to get in the 230-250 range. [size=78%]
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I'd say the HT leads are originals, I replaced the spark plugs only a few weeks ago but original leads. Assume the NGK caps have the same connection, not sure the official name but no screw cap? Else I'm stuck there, threw the tops away  :eek .

FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #37 on: 10 July 2020, 06:48:04 PM »
Answered the spark plug cap question, quite cheap so may be worth doing while sorting the fuel pump out.

Gnasher

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #38 on: 10 July 2020, 07:35:27 PM »
Interesting you say about the indicators, didn't know that, will be done this weekend, got some black silicone in the garage. The chain alignment marks are not accurate then, I'll check that, shouldn't be out as chain and sprockets were recent when I bought it but best to check.

If whoever replaced it may have used the marks if so it's likely it will be out and mm count. 

Quote
Had the carbtune on it today, TPS was also out. At idle it's around 180 mark, had to take it up to about 2.5k revs to get in the 230-250 range.

This is another big hole owners and stealers go down the TPS shouldn't be moved unless it's being replaced, once set it's a datum it doesn't move during use, so if it's not been moving it can't be out.  It only works off No4, to set it, No4 must be pulling 230-250Hg if it's not at 1150- 1250rpm the air mixture screw is out, just increasing the revs will not balance them. They will be out at idle and that will give you the cam chain noise.  All cylinders must be pulling 230 -250Hg at the spec revs, if not adjust the air mixture screw/s until they're, then balance 3&4, 1&2 then bring each pair into balance.  Carbtunes aren't best and can be tricky to set up and use at times, but they should give you a fair result.   

Once the above is done and all are pulling the spec Hg and are within 0.4Hg of each other at the spec revs, they're balanced. Now check the TPS and move it if it's out, lock it up and don't touch it again it's now a datum.   

Quote
I'd say the HT leads are originals, I replaced the spark plugs only a few weeks ago but original leads. Assume the NGK caps have the same connection, not sure the official name but no screw cap? Else I'm stuck there, threw the tops away  :eek .

Cracked HT caps or holed (leeking) leads will not give you cam chain rattle, the bike will tick and will run like a dog as the revs increase.  To check, lift the tank, start bike turn out the lights and you'll see the aching, if you don't have a garage do it at night.   
« Last Edit: 11 July 2020, 08:43:00 AM by Gnasher »
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FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #39 on: 10 July 2020, 07:52:34 PM »
I may leave the caps for now then, I runs fine at revs but I will do the dark test.

Understood on the carb sync, read somewhere about bringing the revs up on the intake I know that for the future. Careful what you read I guess.

Appreciate the advice, got a couple of jobs for the weekend ahead.
« Last Edit: 10 July 2020, 09:18:58 PM by FazedBr »

darrsi

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #40 on: 11 July 2020, 04:13:32 PM »
I may leave the caps for now then, I runs fine at revs but I will do the dark test.

Understood on the carb sync, read somewhere about bringing the revs up on the intake I know that for the future. Careful what you read I guess.

Appreciate the advice, got a couple of jobs for the weekend ahead.


If you ever get round to changing your caps, you can get a set for no more than £12 on Ebay, you just need to choose your colour.


The code you need is NGK SD05F
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FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #41 on: 11 July 2020, 04:29:33 PM »
Thanks Darrsi, that code for the caps will be useful.


I think fuel pump is first priority, not running well at all today, sporadic at idle and sounding like starved at times, pump is getting noisier every day. Strangely it was pulling a high vacuum than yesterday at first and running well, my guess is the pump isn't giving a consistent performance and that's knocking everything off.

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #42 on: 11 July 2020, 05:15:00 PM »
you can bypass the pump to check for sure, its not essential but you'll just run out of fuel bit early, probably around quater tank left

FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #43 on: 11 July 2020, 05:46:34 PM »
If I get chance I'll give that a go tomorrow, I've ordered a pump as it's definitely on the way out just by the noise, so may wait for that now. I've put it all back together but don't know why as not planning on riding it until that fixed. Tried looking for arching in the dark and nothing

FazedBr

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Re: Engine Noise
« Reply #44 on: 02 August 2020, 05:49:06 PM »
Quick update and a thanks for advice...

Last time I had it started on the drive it kept dropping to very low revs and back again repeatedly, as well as the fuel pump noise...not in a good place. Thought I'd check the plug caps especially after some of the last comments and yes they needing replacing. Two were showing good readings, one no reading at all and the last was bouncing around on resistance. Explains the revs dropping out.  Sadly took two weeks for new caps to arrive hence the delay, they went on the evening they arrived along with a new fuel pump and it is riding well again. Albeit still noisy in my opinion.

MOT this Friday along with a good look over by local recommended mechanic, fingers crossed.