Date: 04-06-20  Time: 14:26 PM

Author Topic: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...  (Read 30062 times)

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #475 on: 23 March 2020, 07:38:16 PM »
 10% of Italy’s recorded COVID19 infections are health care workers.


 
A number of health care workers have died. 



Inside an Italian hospital - https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-they-call-it-the-apocalypse-inside-italys-hardest-hit-hospital-11960597

 
This is what we are expecting in the UK.


Waiting rooms, corridors, and operating theatres, are being used for life and death Covid19 treatment. 
So just remember when out on your bike, or off shopping, ignoring advice and the pleas of our health care workers, that this is where we are heading. 



Neverminded our idiotic Prime Minister and our hopeless government, never mind their conflicting and inconsistent advice – just think about what our health care workers are asking of us.


They are asking us to stay at home.  Not to go to work unless we have to.  And not to travel unless absolutely necessary.  Listen to the health care workers, support our health care workers, and show them solidarity and respect.
 
« Last Edit: 23 March 2020, 07:39:12 PM by VNA »

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #476 on: 23 March 2020, 07:56:21 PM »


They are asking us to stay at home.  Not to go to work unless we have to.  And not to travel unless absolutely necessary.  Listen to the health care workers, support our health care workers, and show them solidarity and respect.

Well being married to one such health care worker and having to worry about her every time she goes to work I know all too well about what they are risking for us
But being self employed and at the same time having 2 kids to feed, mortgage payments aswell as a plethora of other Bill's that need covering I CANNOT afford to stay at home despite the risks. So unless the government puts something in place to help people like me then I have no choice but to carry on commuting to work and if necessary ignore the governments "order" to close my business as I would simply lose everything 😔

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #477 on: 23 March 2020, 07:57:38 PM »
You do all this because you're not a f***cking idiot  :D


You may not be mate many others sadly are!


The messages coming out form the government over the last few weeks are confusing, misleading, possibly lies and not helping matters.  Lead by the likes of Cummings and with the idea of trying to do it as cheap as possible, although the latter, I think is now changing as they're are being forced by events.     


We've been told for a good while now 98% of non at risks groups who contract it, will get, little or mid symptoms.  It now turns out that's not the case and it would appear that's been known for a good while.  I believe (from what I've been reading) close half the people who died thus far world wide are not over 70 or in a high risk group, considered fit and healthy.  Many sports man/woman including professional have been infected, some are in a serious condition.  The plan is to spread the infection out more than reduce it, so as not to overwhelm the NHS or rather their equipment i.e. ventilators.   A friend of a friend who is a consultant in a London ITU, sent him the following this is, not cut and paste this was sent to my friend who was at Uni with this chap years ago. I'ts real few days old now but explains why Italy, other major cities and now London, New York are being hit so hard it's real: -

Why do we need to shut places where people group?

Remember this: VIRAL LOAD There will be a lot about this. Why is it important?With this virus, the amount of virus in your blood at first infection directly relates to the severity of the illness you will suffer. This isn’t unusual - HIV management is all about reducing viral load to keep people alive longer. BUT it’s very important in COVID-19.So if you are in, say, a pub or religious building or entertainment venue with 200 people and a large number don’t have symptoms but are shedding, you are breathing in lots of droplets per minute and absorbing a high load of the virus. In a crowded space. They become ill over the next 48 hours. You then three days later wonder why you can’t breathe and end up in hospital.

You’d decided because you were young and healthy it wasn’t going to be a problem. Wrong.Fortunately but unfortunately because the elderly are isolating quite well, the initial UK data suggests that all age groups above 20 are almost equally represented in ITUs in England. Most of the cases are in London but the wave is moving outwards.This means that being under 60 and fit and well doesn’t seem to be as protective as we thought. Why? Viral load.This may be skewed simply by the fact that too many Londoners didn’t do as asked and congregated in large groups in confined spaces and got a large initial viral load. They then went home and infected their wider families. Which is why, as London is overwhelmed, we need to shut everything down to save the rest of the UK. We are a week at most behind London.Our sympathies go out to the families affected in London and the critical care teams battling right now to save as many as they can.

If I sit with one person and catch this virus, I get a small viral load. My immune system will start to fight it and by the time the virus starts replicating, I’m ready to kill it. No medicines will help this process meaningfully hence there is no “cure” for this virus. All we can do is support you with a ventilator and hope your immune system can catch up fast enough.If I sit in the same room with six people, all shedding I get six times the initial dose. The rise in viral load is faster than my immune system can cope with and it is overrun. I then become critically ill and need me (or someone of my speciality) to fix it instead of just being at home and being ok in the end.THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT:If you are a large family group, remember that by being ill and in the same room, you will make each other ill or “more ill”. If you get sick, isolate just yourself to one room and stay there.

Don’t all sit in one room coughing. You will increase the viral load for all of you, reducing your survival rate.A family of six people may produce double the droplets of a family of three in the same space. Maths is important.If one of you is symptomatic, assume you are all shedding and make sure you keep some space.Parents are getting it from their kids because no one is going to stop comforting their child (nor should they) so the parent gets a big hit as well as the child. I don’t think that can be helped.REMEMBER: THINK ABOUT VIRAL LOADIt could save your life or your child’s.Coventry and Warwickshire - it’s up to you now. We are preparing for the worst but we are hoping for the best from you. Please help us to help you. Stay home and take this seriously now before we need the army on the streets to remind you. Yes I’m serious.


Using words like 'should' or 'is the right thing to do' are meaningless to many.  If you want to stop the masses doing anything, it must be a law and policed because some f***cking idiot will just ignore it.  Many appear at to be treating this as an forced holiday, were they are paid 80% of their salary to do nothing and if not in a at risk group just carry on as normal because they think they are low risk.  Another why Italy is in such a bad way they didn't shut down fast enough, now they're in big trouble, they're now seeing slow down and even a small reduction.  The lock down measures are starting to take effect.

Continuing to move about even on a bike alone, doing all the measures mtread states only works if everybody does the same they don't, many can't even wash their hands after going to the lav let alone wearing gloves using a petrol pump!  A lot of people sadly need protecting from themselves!

Stay at home means just that, only going out to shop when you NEED something not WANT there's a big difference.  No popping to the park/beach for a picnic, off for a drive/ride.  It's all about viral load, the more you absorb the worse your infection becomes.  Going on a bike ride stopping and taking pictures with others, road side cafe, I saw 4 sets of the former and 3 of the latter this morning/afternoon going to work/from packed, pubs, clubs, shops etc  this is what's giving not at risk groups high level of symptoms and killing them!  These not at risk types have been and are still spreading it around often themselves with little symptoms themselves.

Keeping the underground moving does make sense but for key workers only, but not as they have cut the amount of carriages so people are packed in.  Why have they, my guess is to save money somewhere/how perhaps on power or staff, another demonstration of Mr Cummings and save money influence.

In the next half hour or so I think we'll find we're all going to be forced to lock down and the military are now going to enter the game.  We must stop treating this as an inconvenience, we are at war with this thing and it must be defeated       

« Last Edit: 23 March 2020, 08:35:03 PM by Gnasher »
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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #478 on: 23 March 2020, 07:59:13 PM »
That's all well and good but what if you are self employed and haven't got enough put by? Observing the "common sense" rules of a lockdown is what I will be doing but I still need to go out and work for a living. Not everyone will be in this position but there are a couple of million self employed people out there and a lot of them will need to carry on working.


Luckily I work for private domestic customers mostly so I can be relatively "safe"


Keep safe everybody  :thumbup

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #479 on: 23 March 2020, 08:31:58 PM »
Quote
Well being married to one such health care worker and having to worry about her every time she goes to work I know all too well about what they are risking for us
But being self employed and at the same time having 2 kids to feed, mortgage payments aswell as a plethora of other Bill's that need covering I CANNOT afford to stay at home despite the risks. So unless the government puts something in place to help people like me then I have no choice but to carry on commuting to work and if necessary ignore the governments "order" to close my business as I would simply lose everything 😔
 
Absolutely.  I’m off anyway this week.  But unless I am told otherwise, I will go to my work next week.  I have no choice. 



Quote
The messages coming out form the government over the last few weeks are confusing, misleading, possibly lies and not helping matters.
This government is utterly utterly utterly hopeless.  I have no doubt that their main concern is the economy.

What we have to do is stop all non-essential activity.
 

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #480 on: 23 March 2020, 08:37:59 PM »
 Excellent post Gnasher.  Viral Load helps explain why health workers are getting ill, and why many of them are so scathing of the idea that they will have immunity if/when they recover. 



Thanks.

 

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #481 on: 23 March 2020, 08:49:14 PM »
That's all well and good but what if you are self employed and haven't got enough put by? Observing the "common sense" rules of a lockdown is what I will be doing but I still need to go out and work for a living. Not everyone will be in this position but there are a couple of million self employed people out there and a lot of them will need to carry on working.


Luckily I work for private domestic customers mostly so I can be relatively "safe"


Keep safe everybody  :thumbup


Put simply you can't visit/work in peoples homes unless it's vital, gas, water, electrical, structural emergency. Anything else will stop.     


You can claim if you're self employed (SE), I'm not saying it's easy but you can.  Now what will be interesting is all those SE who have been claiming for years they live on 15k (1200ish a month) and now claim they need the equivalent of 50k plus.................. oh that's going to be very interesting.


This could be yet another great leveller and something good to come out of all this. 


   
« Last Edit: 23 March 2020, 08:52:01 PM by Gnasher »
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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #482 on: 23 March 2020, 08:55:33 PM »

Now what will be interesting is all those SE who have been claiming for years they live on 15k (1200ish a month) and now claim they need the equivalent of 50k plus.................. oh that's going to be very interesting.


 :lol
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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #483 on: 23 March 2020, 10:46:26 PM »
Quote
Well being married to one such health care worker and having to worry about her every time she goes to work I know all too well about what they are risking for us
But being self employed and at the same time having 2 kids to feed, mortgage payments aswell as a plethora of other Bill's that need covering I CANNOT afford to stay at home despite the risks. So unless the government puts something in place to help people like me then I have no choice but to carry on commuting to work and if necessary ignore the governments "order" to close my business as I would simply lose everything 😔
 
Absolutely.  I’m off anyway this week.  But unless I am told otherwise, I will go to my work next week.  I have no choice. 



Quote
The messages coming out form the government over the last few weeks are confusing, misleading, possibly lies and not helping matters.
This government is utterly utterly utterly hopeless.  I have no doubt that their main concern is the economy.

What we have to do is stop all non-essential activity.


Oi, you. No non essential travel. Remember? Typical of you. Do as I say and not as I do. :lol

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #484 on: 23 March 2020, 11:02:41 PM »
Quote
Oi, you. No non essential travel. Remember? Typical of you. Do as I say and not as I do.
Going to work is essential travel.

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #485 on: 23 March 2020, 11:22:21 PM »
But only if you're an essential worker  :)

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #486 on: 23 March 2020, 11:32:15 PM »
Quote
You can claim if you're self employed (SE), I'm not saying it's easy but you can.  Now what will be interesting is all those SE who have been claiming for years they live on 15k (1200ish a month) and now claim they need the equivalent of 50k plus.................. oh that's going to be very interesting.
Yes you can claim....... Universal Credit if you have no work at all, or Statutory Sickness Benefit if you are ill. Both of which are a pittance compared with the government's guarantee of 80% salary or £2,500 per month for laid off employees.
The government really needs to support the self employed, or many will be destitute or if they can just carry on quietly working. The government is suggesting it is administratively difficult to pay the self employed. No it isn't. You have their Self Assessment Returns and have estimated the current year's profit. Just pay them 80% of that.

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #487 on: 23 March 2020, 11:42:03 PM »
Quote
But only if you're an essential worker 
That is not correct.
The official guidance is here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874714/Full_guidance_on_staying_at_home_and_away_from_others.pdf
The key line is
Quote
●Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home.
However I am classed as an essential worker. 
 

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #488 on: 23 March 2020, 11:45:40 PM »
 
Quote
But only if you're an essential worker  :)

Bottom line - I get to ride my bike - you don't :pokefun
Any restrcitions on fuel that may be introduced will not apply to me.
     

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #489 on: 23 March 2020, 11:56:22 PM »

● Shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as
possible.


Tomorrow's basic food requirements are Cromer Crab. The following day Arbroath Smokies  :)

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #490 on: 24 March 2020, 12:28:05 AM »
I wonder what the supermarkets will be like over the next week.

I can't help thinking that possibly the panic buyers will be too foccin scared to step outside their houses, and will now start working their way through their stock piles. 


The top notch butcher a few miles up the road from me has had to close down his web site due to panic buying.  Bonkers.

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #491 on: 24 March 2020, 05:55:36 AM »


● Shopping for basic necessities, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as
possible.


Tomorrow's basic food requirements are Cromer Crab. The following day Arbroath Smokies  :)


 :lol
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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #492 on: 24 March 2020, 05:57:59 AM »
Excellent post Gnasher.  Viral Load helps explain why health workers are getting ill, and why many of them are so scathing of the idea that they will have immunity if/when they recover. 



Thanks.


Totally agree, that's a very understandable and informative post Gnasher.
Sometimes when things are explained as simply as that it can make so much more sense, but also get the message home too without needing all the blatant scaremongering.
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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #493 on: 24 March 2020, 06:11:13 AM »

Quote
But only if you're an essential worker 
That is not correct.
The official guidance is here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874714/Full_guidance_on_staying_at_home_and_away_from_others.pdf
The key line is
Quote
●Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home.
However I am classed as an essential worker.


Just listening to the radio, there's confusion about this issue.
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.

Gnasher

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #494 on: 24 March 2020, 07:38:16 AM »
Yes you can claim....... Universal Credit if you have no work at all, or Statutory Sickness Benefit if you are ill. Both of which are a pittance compared with the government's guarantee of 80% salary or £2,500 per month for laid off employees.
The government really needs to support the self employed, or many will be destitute or if they can just carry on quietly working. The government is suggesting it is administratively difficult to pay the self employed. No it isn't. You have their Self Assessment Returns and have estimated the current year's profit. Just pay them 80% of that.


A quick google and it appears SE can't access SSB, they can claim Employment & Support Allowance (ESA), Universal Credit, they also don't have pay their tax bill for last years tax, which they should have put by and this the government assumes will give them access to cash.   It's not as straight forward, would appear on the surface to be less generous than PAYE employees, it should be better.

I think this is yet another example of this government's lack of depth and experience, it's also highlighting a serious flaw in our employment system. It's also a bit ironic in that, the current government's political leaning has for years been to encourage and promote self employment,  yet they appear to have little regard for them at this time.

And it's been left to the opposition, to call for more help in supporting the self employed, something they're not necessarily historically seen to have supported.  Let's also not forget those on zero hour contracts, they I believe, are even worse off! For me this is yet another clear demonstration of money above all, especially zero hours contracts were everything is geared for the employer.   
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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #495 on: 24 March 2020, 10:20:46 AM »
Quote
they also don't have pay their tax bill for last years tax, which they should have put by and this the government assumes will give them access to cash
The government usually takes an advance payment of 2019 - 2020 tax in July 2020. All they have done is delay that until January 2021. So that doesn't give much benefit to the Self Employed at all, and certainly not their massive drop in earnings now.

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #496 on: 24 March 2020, 10:29:07 AM »
Quote
But only if you're an essential worker 
That is not correct.
The official guidance is here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874714/Full_guidance_on_staying_at_home_and_away_from_others.pdf
The key line is
Quote
●Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home.
However I am classed as an essential worker.


And your essential work is?

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #497 on: 24 March 2020, 10:42:22 AM »
.

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #498 on: 24 March 2020, 10:51:49 AM »
 
Quote
Quote from: VNA on 23 March 2020, 11:42:03 PM<blockquote>Quote<blockquote>But only if you're an essential worker  </blockquote> That is not correct.
The official guidance is here
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874714/Full_guidance_on_staying_at_home_and_away_from_others.pdf
The key line is
Quote<blockquote>●Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home. </blockquote>However I am classed as an essential worker.
</blockquote>

And your essential work is?

Cick the link.  Read the guidance. 

I quote - again;
Quote
1. STAYING AT HOMEYou should only leave the house for one of four reasons.●Shoppingforbasicnecessities,forexamplefoodandmedicine,whichmustbeasinfrequentaspossible.●Oneformofexerciseaday,forexamplearun,walk,orcycle-aloneorwithmembersofyourhousehold.●Any medical need, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person●Travelling to and from work, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home
The critical sector list is to allow those key workers to continue to send their children to school.
The advice may change, it things continue to get worse, it may be only key workers continuing to travel to work.  That will include myslef - unless my employer sends me home.
   
« Last Edit: 24 March 2020, 10:54:02 AM by VNA »

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Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« Reply #499 on: 24 March 2020, 11:24:09 AM »
Quote
they also don't have pay their tax bill for last years tax, which they should have put by and this the government assumes will give them access to cash
The government usually takes an advance payment of 2019 - 2020 tax in July 2020. All they have done is delay that until January 2021. So that doesn't give much benefit to the Self Employed at all, and certainly not their massive drop in earnings now.


I see, it is not acceptable to leave millions of SE in this position and those on zero hours.  After all this is over I really hope people start to think differently, there's too much of the "I'm alright jack" which governments can use to their advantage.

It's only when something like what is happening and everyone is effected, do we see not only how fragile we've become but how materialistic and selfish.  One good thing is the virus doesn't care where you live or how much money you've got, money won't necessarily save you, it might buy time.  That said I dare say those who've got these big yachts or their own Islands are now parked up off shore/locked down for the long haul.  But if any member of the crew/staff/owners/guests has it it will go through them like crap through a goose.

With little chance of escape, this tiny virus is a big leveller.       
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