Date: 14-12-19  Time: 12:46 PM

Author Topic: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...  (Read 14271 times)

fazersharp

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1000 on: 02 December 2019, 09:27:18 AM »

 harsher sentencing and other nonsense when Merrit was in favour of Prison Reform and was the coordinator of the  Learning Together initiative conference to promote rehabilitation of offenders.

The attacker was initially sentenced to an indeterminate sentence, which was then reduced on appeal to 16 years = eligible for released on licence after 8 years.
How the foc can a convicted terrorist who planned to blow up parliament and the stock exchange be rehabilitated.
What morons sat on a panel and listens and believed him when he tells them he has remorse - blah blah.         
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mtread

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1001 on: 02 December 2019, 10:10:45 AM »
Quote
With all this talk of Brexit and the election on here we have forgot to thank and be proud of the heroes on London bridge. British and the young Polish guy who despite being stab at the beginning of the attack stayed with it till the police arrive. The police officers who despite knowing the terrorist was wearing a suicide vest run to him not away. All of them in my mind deserve the highest award for bravery.
Totally agree. They undoubtedly prevented further murders.

steve 10562cc

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1002 on: 02 December 2019, 10:16:57 AM »
After working for 34 years on the front line in the Prison service, rehabilitation is down to the individual prisoner and him wanting to do it, most just pay lip service to it as a means of early release. Other than uniformed staff, other staff for the main only see the side the prisoners want them to see,  and not what they are still capable of. The only thing in most cases prison achieves is protecting the public from them while the are locked up. I'm Sorry if that shatters a few bubbles, and I wish the opposite was true, but that gents is the reality of it.

mtread

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1003 on: 02 December 2019, 10:35:54 AM »
Two of the heroes on Friday were ex prisoners, one a convicted murderer.


What I can't understand is how did he get the knives and belt into the hall? I go to London a lot and security searches  are everywhere.

VNA

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1004 on: 02 December 2019, 10:56:03 AM »

VNA

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1005 on: 02 December 2019, 11:05:29 AM »
Can I just put these two comments together....
Quote
After working for 34 years on the front line in the Prison service, rehabilitation is down to the individual prisoner and him wanting to do it, most just pay lip service to it as a means of early release. Other than uniformed staff, other staff for the main only see the side the prisoners want them to see,  and not what they are still capable of. The only thing in most cases prison achieves is protecting the public from them while the are locked up. I'm Sorry if that shatters a few bubbles, and I wish the opposite was true, but that gents is the reality of it.
 
Quote
Two of the heroes on Friday were ex prisoners, one a convicted murderer.

VNA

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1006 on: 02 December 2019, 11:07:58 AM »

steve 10562cc

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1007 on: 02 December 2019, 11:32:10 AM »
Your quite right VNA one I no was an ex prisoner and all credit to the guy it took guts to do what he and the others did. I have had prisoners come to my aid and put them selves at risk in doing so. If any of you really want to know use the freedom of information act and ask how many life sentenced prisoners are returned to prison for further offences in the last 40years.

VNA

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1008 on: 02 December 2019, 11:36:07 AM »
 
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Not surprised to learn that both former inmates who helped victims of the London Bridge attack had served at HMP Grendon, the UK's only theraputic-based penal regime that has yielded amazing results for over 50 years and yet bafflingly remains a one-off
Libby Brooks

Her article if here - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/oct/29/prison-grendon-regime-reform?CMP=share_btn_tw



It’s amazing, we know the importance of rehabilitation, we know a lot about what works and what does not work.   We know it saves money.  But still nobody will invest in it.  Why?  Cos sounding tough on sentencing sounds good on the doorstop – lock em up and throw away the key etc etc/
 

fazersharp

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1009 on: 02 December 2019, 11:47:19 AM »
 If I was convicted of plotting to blow up someone who tried to nick my Fazer I am hardly going to be a danger to others after my early "rehabilitated" release, unlike convicted terrorists who plotted to kill many 100's or didn't care who or how many.
Some people are just too much of a danger to the wider public to ever be released. The original indefinite sentence should never have been reduced to 8 years.

Although the person who tried to nick my fazer may still need to look over their shoulder.


 
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mtread

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1010 on: 02 December 2019, 12:03:29 PM »
Quote
If I was convicted of plotting to blow up someone who tried to nick my Fazer I am hardly going to be a danger to others after my early "rehabilitated" release, unlike convicted terrorists who plotted to kill many 100's or didn't care who or how many.Some people are just too much of a danger to the wider public to ever be released. The original indefinite sentence should never have been reduced to 8 years.

But that suggests de-radicalisation can never work, when it clearly does. Don't forget his original conviction was 'plotting' not 'doing'.
What is needed is more and better assessment of risk. Our prisons are already very full.
Assessment, Probation control and Prison all need resources and can't be done on the cheap. Not cuts and privatisation.

steve 10562cc

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1011 on: 02 December 2019, 12:16:04 PM »
VNA that article is now 10 years out of date and unfortunately possibly is no longer the case. Prisons in the last 10 years have changed and not for the better.

steve 10562cc

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1012 on: 02 December 2019, 12:22:17 PM »
My last word on this subject is a lot of people are possibly still alive today from the brave actions of those men on the bridge.  You should be proud of your selves civvies and police officer.

VNA

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1013 on: 02 December 2019, 02:51:02 PM »
Quote
VNA that article is now 10 years out of date and unfortunately possibly is no longer the case.
https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprisons/media/press-releases/2017/09/hmp-grendon-an-impressive-prison-working-with-long-sentenced-prisoners/
2017 HM Inspector of Prisons. 

Quote
Not every prison can or needs to be a therapeutic community, but the values, principles and practice seen at Grendon could provide positive lessons and inspiration for other prisons. HM Prison and Probation Service should ensure this example is shared more widely for the benefits of others
I guess it's lucky to survive.

darrsi

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1014 on: 02 December 2019, 05:11:37 PM »
If I was convicted of plotting to blow up someone who tried to nick my Fazer I am hardly going to be a danger to others after my early "rehabilitated" release, unlike convicted terrorists who plotted to kill many 100's or didn't care who or how many.
Some people are just too much of a danger to the wider public to ever be released. The original indefinite sentence should never have been reduced to 8 years.

Although the person who tried to nick my fazer may still need to look over their shoulder.




Especially if he rides it in the rain  :lol
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

agricola

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1015 on: 02 December 2019, 07:50:05 PM »
If I was convicted of plotting to blow up someone who tried to nick my Fazer I am hardly going to be a danger to others after my early "rehabilitated" release, unlike convicted terrorists who plotted to kill many 100's or didn't care who or how many.
Some people are just too much of a danger to the wider public to ever be released. The original indefinite sentence should never have been reduced to 8 years.

Although the person who tried to nick my fazer may still need to look over their shoulder.




Quite right, that's a distinction that has to be made. You cannot let these people out. Ever. 20,000 of them on the "watch list", 20 know plots nipped in the bud this year alone. Astronomical cost to society, and a drain on valuable public services. Round them up, put them in specially built camps, and then give them a choice, stay here or select a country which suits your preferred lifestyle and we'll pay your passage.

fazersharp

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1016 on: 02 December 2019, 07:50:17 PM »
If I was convicted of plotting to blow up someone who tried to nick my Fazer I am hardly going to be a danger to others after my early "rehabilitated" release, unlike convicted terrorists who plotted to kill many 100's or didn't care who or how many.
Some people are just too much of a danger to the wider public to ever be released. The original indefinite sentence should never have been reduced to 8 years.

Although the person who tried to nick my fazer may still need to look over their shoulder.
Especially if he rides it in the rain  :lol
If he did I he will not get far - it has never been wet, I think it may actually melt 
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

VNA

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1017 on: 02 December 2019, 10:14:33 PM »
Quote
Quite right, that's a distinction that has to be made. You cannot let these people out. Ever. 20,000 of them on the "watch list", 20 know plots nipped in the bud this year alone. Astronomical cost to society, and a drain on valuable public services. Round them up, put them in specially built camps, and then give them a choice, stay here or select a country which suits your preferred lifestyle and we'll pay your passage.
Maybe we should have thought about all this before we invaded Afghanistan.  Went and laid waste to Iraq, turned Libya upside down and so forth.  All the weapons we sell to those Saudi cunts etc etc.


Just saying like.
 

mtread

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1018 on: 02 December 2019, 11:20:04 PM »
What about all the extreme right wing groups being monitored by the intelligence services. Where do you send them? I don't think 1930s Germany exists any more.

darrsi

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1019 on: 03 December 2019, 06:38:04 AM »
What about all the extreme right wing groups being monitored by the intelligence services. Where do you send them? I don't think 1930s Germany exists any more.


On the flip side of the coin, i witnessed one of your Leftie lot yesterday, when i saw someone offer to open the door for her as she had her hands full.
Her response was "I am a strong and independent woman, i can open the door myself."  :groan


I know her, and what she's like, so i am not really surprised, more disappointed at such a stupid and unnecessary response to a genuine offer of a moments helping hand.
There's no need for that shit.  :wall
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

VNA

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1020 on: 03 December 2019, 11:44:31 AM »
 Donald Trump has stated he will stay out of the ongoing General Election in the UK.  But he added that he was big fan of BREXIT and that “I think Boris is very capable and I think he’ll do a good job.” 



 :lol :lol :lol :lol
 

YamFazFan

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1021 on: 03 December 2019, 11:52:11 AM »
Clearly not as daft as he looks :D
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.

VNA

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1022 on: 03 December 2019, 12:07:04 PM »
Dutch cartoon in the Volkskrant newspaper;

VNA

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1023 on: 03 December 2019, 12:34:23 PM »

YamFazFan

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Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« Reply #1024 on: 03 December 2019, 12:51:02 PM »
As if they English ones weren't enough, we've got Brexit cartoons from around the world now :rolleyes
Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.