Date: 21-10-20  Time: 19:23 PM

Author Topic: It brings a lump to your throat.  (Read 751 times)

steve 10562cc

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - KAWASAKI Z1000
    • View Profile
It brings a lump to your throat.
« on: 06 June 2019, 09:32:45 AM »
Been watching the D Day commemorations and listening to the experiences of the veterans most of who a lot were little more than kids then. VERY MOVING   

unfazed

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,935
  • Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FZS1000 05-06, Serow 2000
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #1 on: 06 June 2019, 12:09:39 PM »
Utmost respect to those guys, they were LIKE cannon fodder trying to take the beaches.
Anybody who has not visited the beaches of Normandy should put it on their list.
Looking out over the vast expanse of the beaches, makes it even more impressive that they made a success of it al all.
« Last Edit: 06 June 2019, 05:21:11 PM by unfazed »

Hedgetrimmer

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,711
  • FOC-U official topiary expert
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #2 on: 06 June 2019, 01:16:07 PM »
Cannon fodder...I don't like that phrase, especially when applied to our troops in that war. They were fighting for a real, just cause. Even Montgomery, say what you will about him, was very conscious of the dwindling British manpower reserves throughout the ETO, and did all he could to keep British casualties to a minimum, such that the Germans complained about our massive use of material resources, especially when it came to artillery, and our American allies complained about his reluctance to commit.


The Russians otoh did often treat their soldiers as cannon fodder with frontal assaults on well defended positions, where pure numbers were used to overwhelm their enemy.
« Last Edit: 06 June 2019, 01:19:29 PM by Hedgetrimmer »

steve 10562cc

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - KAWASAKI Z1000
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #3 on: 06 June 2019, 02:18:34 PM »
I don't think unfazed meant cannon fodder  in any way disrespectfully, listening to the veterans experiences was not easy.
« Last Edit: 06 June 2019, 05:08:21 PM by steve 10562cc »

Hedgetrimmer

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,711
  • FOC-U official topiary expert
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #4 on: 06 June 2019, 03:12:53 PM »
I don't think Hedgetrimmer meant cannon fodder in a disrespectful way listening to the veterans experiences was not easy.


You mean Unfazed?


Cannon fodder is disrespectful to soldiers, there's no other way to use the term. It's disrespectful from the point of view of those who would use soldiers as such, and it's disrespectful to the soldiers themselves who put themselves in harms way to do a job. It implies casually throwing away lives.


I don't doubt Unfazed doesn't mean to be disrespectful - I just think the phrase shouldn't be used without careful thought of what one means.

Frosties

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,476
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900, CBF 1000,Bandit 650
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #5 on: 06 June 2019, 04:29:12 PM »
Been catching bits of this all day. Puts a lump in your throat when you see these soldiers wiping a tear, holding a salute, always mentioning their fallen comrades and the one old soldier who said "I'm not a hero......all the heroes are dead". As said, most these soldiers were either in their teens or early 20's.
Those are my principles...if you don't like them I have others.

steve 10562cc

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 542
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • - KAWASAKI Z1000
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #6 on: 06 June 2019, 05:10:05 PM »
Sorry Hedgetrimmer corrected my earlier post

unfazed

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,935
  • Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - FZS1000 05-06, Serow 2000
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #7 on: 06 June 2019, 05:20:46 PM »
No disrespect intended Hedgetrimmer, I have and always had the utmost respect for those guys. However I did correct the wording as I had left out a word
The term was used by veterans themselves from WW1, WW2 and Vietnam when telling me of the horrors of the wars.
They did not consider it disrespectful because they felt they were on occasions used like that in desperate virtually unwinnable situation.
Strength of numbers got those guys up the beaches of Normandy, if you have not been there, go there you will see exactly why.
We have a monument to those who were lost in both wars in my home parish, most of them under 21.
Ireland was fighting its own independence battle during the 14 to 18 war yet many of our youngsters when to fight.When WW2 was on Ireland choose to remain neutral, something I have never agreed with as were many of those Irish who who fought and died in Normandy.
I have taken a lot of time out of holidays to ensure I got to visit these places to pay respects for what these men and women did.
 I still have many to go to and one in particular is Salonica where my wifes Grandfather is buried having lost his life and leaving a wife and 6 children behind 3 months before WW1 ended.The term was not used disrespectfully and if offended you it was not intended.
What I do find disrespectful is derogatory comments made by many British on their holidays about the French when quarter of its country was overrun at the start of the WW2.France had fortified its borders with Germany where they expected the German invasion, they did not expect a Belgium side invasion.
The French Resistance were one of the toughest most active resistance movements (most untrained in military methods) and without them much of the war effort would never have succeeded. The French on there own tried in vain to ward off the German invasion with an equal number of Men and tanks, but were outgunned by over double the air power of Germany Luftwaffe.It is much easier to invade a Land Border than a Sea Border which is what kept England safer.
It is important that everybody pays their respects to those who lost their lives and survived the horrors of both wars and value the freedom they fought for.
Rant Over


Slaninar

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,294
  • Lookin' like a streak of lightnin'
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #8 on: 06 June 2019, 06:54:19 PM »
Cannon fodder...I don't like that phrase, especially when applied to our troops in that war. They were fighting for a real, just cause. Even Montgomery, say what you will about him, was very conscious of the dwindling British manpower reserves throughout the ETO, and did all he could to keep British casualties to a minimum, such that the Germans complained about our massive use of material resources, especially when it came to artillery, and our American allies complained about his reluctance to commit.


The Russians otoh did often treat their soldiers as cannon fodder with frontal assaults on well defended positions, where pure numbers were used to overwhelm their enemy.


Russians fought desperately with what they had. And it was them (and the Yugoslav rebellion prolonging the invasion of Russia, buying them time - and the winter) who played a decisive role in defeating the nazis.


Had D-Day been done in 1942, it would have been a great (though most probably futile) attempt to relieve the Russians and help them with their fight. But in 1944, it could be considered a strategically unnecessary risk (which in no way diminishes the courage and the effort by the soldiers, quite the contrary).


Cannon fodder? When you put on a uniform and go to war, you can expect to be sent to die without a good strategic, or tactical reason. You can be certain that at least some people you know will die such deaths. War brings out the best in some, the worst in others. Some of those are commanding officers. I believe the "problematic" term was coined when reflecting upon the effect of artillery (and machine guns) to a frontal infantry assault. In my language, similar term is used that in literal translation means "meat for the cannons".
« Last Edit: 06 June 2019, 06:57:23 PM by Slaninar »
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.

tex

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 712
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - tdr 250
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #9 on: 06 June 2019, 07:15:35 PM »
My dad and uncle's where in ww11, and my grandad and his brothers in ww1, when I started work at 16 it was full of ww11 vets always loved going for a pint with them and could listen to there stories all day, there was a guy named keith bannwell he was a big influence on me  , took me parachuting  he'll of a guy been in all over the world in different regiments.  You can Google him he was a genuine hero.
the night i was born, lord the moon stood a fire red., my poor mother her crying,
she said the gypsy was right, and she fell right dead

agricola

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • Man on a mission
    • Main bike:
      FZ6 S2 07-09
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #10 on: 06 June 2019, 08:02:12 PM »
Been watching the D Day commemorations and listening to the experiences of the veterans most of who a lot were little more than kids then. VERY MOVING


Agreed. Ill always have the utmost regard for those that fought to keep us free, those that came back, and those that didnt.

BBROWN1664

  • Administrator
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 12,483
  • Should get out more!
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Tiger 900i
    • View Profile
    • My website
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #11 on: 06 June 2019, 08:25:04 PM »
75 years ago today, my granddad was among the sailors that were shuttling people backwards and forwards to Normandy from the UK.

He rarely talked about it but one of the few things he did say, after watching Saving Private Ryan, was how realistic the opening scenes were. If you've never seen it, watch the first 10 minutes or so to see what he was talking about.


RIP Grandad
Another ex-Fazer rider that is a foccer again

DILLIGAFF


  • Muppet

    Plucking foccer
    Official FOC-U Saga Lout
    Kock Leeper
  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,062
  • Leeper of cocks
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #12 on: 07 June 2019, 11:02:10 AM »
I agree, had to wipe a tear or two.
I lost 2 uncles to the war. One blown up by a mine at sea off the coast of Greece and the other killed in an armoured vehicle 2 days before the end of the war.
I used to not give a foc, then I discovered Red Bull and now I don't give a flying foc !!!

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,340
  • 91/2 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #13 on: 08 June 2019, 11:16:01 PM »
My Dad was there at D-Day + 1or 2 and went through France / Belgium and on to Germany. Never really talked about it and never was into getting his medals or doing the whole Cenotapf thing so when he died we - his sons and daughters applied for his medals.
 My Mum and Granddad worked building parts for spitfires and one of our treasured items is a household item that my granddad turned out on his lathe on his lunch break - if they had one) its engraved 1945. It seems it was done when the nation realised that we are going to win this and the spitfire the lump of aluminium was destined for was not so important after all.   
« Last Edit: 09 June 2019, 10:38:38 AM by fazersharp »
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

darrsi

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 10,099
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #14 on: 09 June 2019, 09:50:22 AM »
There's a series gonna be starting soon on Ch4, i think Thursday 20th, called Catch-22, produced by George Clooney.
Make a point of recording it, it is VERY good.
Not only is the whole thing very polished, it has humour, tragedy, some really dark moments, and when you see the regular bombing missions it's just downright scary. Plus the background music gives it an atmospheric boost as well.
Highly recommended.  :thumbup 

https://youtu.be/JARn16yojbQ
« Last Edit: 09 June 2019, 09:51:10 AM by darrsi »
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

Hedgetrimmer

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 5,711
  • FOC-U official topiary expert
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #15 on: 09 June 2019, 11:11:24 AM »
There's a series gonna be starting soon on Ch4, i think Thursday 20th, called Catch-22, produced by George Clooney.
Make a point of recording it, it is VERY good.
Not only is the whole thing very polished, it has humour, tragedy, some really dark moments, and when you see the regular bombing missions it's just downright scary. Plus the background music gives it an atmospheric boost as well.
Highly recommended.  :thumbup 

https://youtu.be/JARn16yojbQ


I presume this is the Catch-22? I seem to remember a previous movie version was quite good. Couldn't get into the book though, highly rated though it is.

fazersharp

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,340
  • 91/2 stone Racing Snake
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #16 on: 09 June 2019, 11:14:40 AM »
There's a series gonna be starting soon on Ch4, i think Thursday 20th, called Catch-22, produced by George Clooney.
Make a point of recording it, it is VERY good.
Not only is the whole thing very polished, it has humour, tragedy, some really dark moments, and when you see the regular bombing missions it's just downright scary. Plus the background music gives it an atmospheric boost as well.
Highly recommended.  :thumbup 

https://youtu.be/JARn16yojbQ
Thanks I will look out for it. 
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

coffee

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,051
  • Phil Bradbury,like road racing,ireland,music
    • Main bike:
      FZ1 Naked Gen2
    • View Profile
Re: It brings a lump to your throat.
« Reply #17 on: 11 June 2019, 12:16:22 AM »
No disrespect intended Hedgetrimmer, I have and always had the utmost respect for those guys. However I did correct the wording as I had left out a word
The term was used by veterans themselves from WW1, WW2 and Vietnam when telling me of the horrors of the wars.
They did not consider it disrespectful because they felt they were on occasions used like that in desperate virtually unwinnable situation.
Strength of numbers got those guys up the beaches of Normandy, if you have not been there, go there you will see exactly why.
We have a monument to those who were lost in both wars in my home parish, most of them under 21.
Ireland was fighting its own independence battle during the 14 to 18 war yet many of our youngsters when to fight.When WW2 was on Ireland choose to remain neutral, something I have never agreed with as were many of those Irish who who fought and died in Normandy.
I have taken a lot of time out of holidays to ensure I got to visit these places to pay respects for what these men and women did.
 I still have many to go to and one in particular is Salonica where my wifes Grandfather is buried having lost his life and leaving a wife and 6 children behind 3 months before WW1 ended.The term was not used disrespectfully and if offended you it was not intended.
What I do find disrespectful is derogatory comments made by many British on their holidays about the French when quarter of its country was overrun at the start of the WW2.France had fortified its borders with Germany where they expected the German invasion, they did not expect a Belgium side invasion.
The French Resistance were one of the toughest most active resistance movements (most untrained in military methods) and without them much of the war effort would never have succeeded. The French on there own tried in vain to ward off the German invasion with an equal number of Men and tanks, but were outgunned by over double the air power of Germany Luftwaffe.It is much easier to invade a Land Border than a Sea Border which is what kept England safer.
It is important that everybody pays their respects to those who lost their lives and survived the horrors of both wars and value the freedom they fought for.
Rant Over



"vive le France" the French resistance were surely one of the very bravest of people,where death was guaranteed at the slightest slip up.Men ,women and teenagers were plotting,scheming,doing everything they could to upset the Nazis,a truly remarkable race of people.
never look down on anyone unless you're helping them up.