Date: 06-07-20  Time: 11:57 AM

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Messages - VNA - BMW Wank

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26
General / Re: The cool bike thread......
« on: 28 June 2020, 06:18:02 PM »
This isn't really cool, its just absolute bonkers.
And nope it's not a historic bike - it's a new build.
Should make 240bhp he says.

27
General / Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« on: 28 June 2020, 04:04:26 PM »
Just a wee reminder;

28
General / Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« on: 27 June 2020, 08:16:04 PM »

29
General / Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« on: 27 June 2020, 07:45:32 PM »
 
Quote
Because the way they went on about it was as if it was the most infectious disease in the world and everyone in the country was going to catch it but in reality pretty much nobody got it at all.

That’s because we went into lockdown.


 
Scroll down on this page.  Note the exponential rise in cases, which is then eased by lockdown. 
Watch this again - https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/status/1241803403619172359
Without any social distancing measures, or any restrictions that’s what is going to happen.


Note – Covid19 may be less infectious during the summer months.


USA recorded 47,341 new cases yesterday.  That’s almost double what they recorded just two weeks ago – I don’t think testing will have changed much in the last two weeks – looks like some states may have to go back into a full lockdown.

 

30
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 26 June 2020, 08:23:55 PM »

31
General / Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« on: 25 June 2020, 05:49:31 PM »
 And, umm, yeah, maybe Starmer is indeed the new Tony Blair.
 
I get a bad feeling, that by the time you get to the next Westminster general election, you will be faced with the choice of which Tory party you wish to elect.  I just hope by then that Scotland is out of it.
 

32
General / Re: The cool bike thread......
« on: 24 June 2020, 07:40:31 PM »



33
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 22 June 2020, 07:50:01 PM »
Quote
Quote<blockquote> If Labour MPs and Labour members go about saying, well actually New Labour did a heck of a lot for this country, and oh we only lost the last three elections because we are bad a picking leaders.</blockquote>Yep. But now we don't have to say that any more 
Far too early to say.  And if he is the right man, heading in the right direction (no not a return to Labour's Tory days of the 00's), well will the party unite behind him?  These are increasingly desperate political times - and a lot of people feel very much let down by Labour, and I'm not talking about being let down by the leadership.
But meanwhile..................




34
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 21 June 2020, 09:55:36 PM »
 
Quote
The Tory party has always been full of undisciplined, back stabbing disloyal bastards.
Tory party fights tend to stay within the Tory party.  And they certainly don’t have ministers calling their leader “a fucking anti-Semite, and a racist”.


Sure, they will swiftly and brutally dispose of a leader, but then they back that leader.  And if nothing else, if they have been fighting tooth and nail (BREXIT) they all pull together come a general election – and those who can’t behave, or have been naughty boys or girls go into hiding.


Quote
We have a Tory government because the Labour opposition couldn't decide whether it wanted to stay in Europe or not, through weak leadership.
Well that was part if it.  It wanted to try and be all things to all people.  But really you cling to this stuff, yeah blame it all on BREXIT so you don't have to face the turth. 



The Labour party has two major problems.  It will not recognise and deal with its recent history.  Ordinary people suffered under New Labour, and not to mention the whole world is a more dangerous place thanks to New Labours immoral and often illegal foreign policy.  Being in denial of the truth, and not being able to admit that the whole New Labour project was a disaster just undermines the party as a whole.  Labour has a massive issue on trust.


Secondly, its failure to respect its membership, and its vicious down right nasty campaign to destroy its own leader, that they carried that on to the extent they did it right through an election campaign – I mean wtf!  You even had ex Labour MPs telling the public to vote Tory. 



Its not about leaders being unelectable, as neither Ed nor Jeremey were given a chance.


Quote
It is Labour that is unelected, or if you like doesn’t want to be elected.  Three elections in a row have been gifted to the Tories.
If Labour MPs and Labour members go about saying, well actually New Labour did a heck of a lot for this country, and oh we only lost the last three elections because we are bad a picking leaders.


Well keep doing that, and the public will conclude – no point voting for those lying fuckers.
 

35
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 21 June 2020, 06:24:09 PM »
 Anyway, I guess the question is – where now, or what now?


The War in Iraq, the growing of inequality, the privatisation agenda, the general march of the neo-liberal agenda, and that Scottish Labour was unable to take a stand.  Well, Scottish Labour became seen as the Scottish branch office of New Labour.  It didn’t take long for Scots to dislike New Labour - we saw it for what it was.
 
In England, that Theresa May failed to win a majority against an opposition leader whom was wholly undermined by his parliamentary party, proves if nothing else, there is a thirst for change.  Everybody, including me, expected a landslide majority for the Tories.  Another election opportunity thrown away by Labour.


There is a thirst for decent affordable council housing, services run for the people by the people, not exploitative private companies.  We need a fair tax system – New Labour deregulated, and did nothing to address the growing billions upon billions of pounds year on year missing from the balance sheet. 



Next year we will have the Scottish Parliamentary elections.  If Sir Keir turns out to be another Tony Blair, another neo liberal centralist, and Scottish Labour in turn does not break its ties with the Westminster Labour Party – the Labour in Scotland is finished.


It may of course already be finished.  Scotland has yet another Tory government.  Nobody up here is impressed with, I shook hands with everybody Johnson.  We are getting a No Deal BREXIT enforced on us – no special deals for Scotland – no recognition that almost 2/3rds of Scots voted to REMAIN.  We have seen again with Covid19, that when it comes to dealing big issues our hands are tried, and thanks to Labour we have Boris in charge.


So, with no effective opposition, and though it’s supposed to be impossible for any one party to win a majority in Scotland, it looks possible that the SNP may do it again.


That will inevitably will mean a second Independence referendum.


 
Boris Johnson, may well go down as the Prime Minister who delivered the BREXIT disaster, and then lost the Union.


But let’s be honest, he could never have achieved all that without the help of The Labour Party. 
 

36
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 21 June 2020, 03:53:31 PM »
 The fact remains that we have yet another Tory government because Labour is an absolute utter disorganised, undisciplined, disaster full of back stabbing disloyal bastards.


Yet again we have a Tory government because Labour can’t get its act together – or as you say “they prefer to remain in opposition”



Quote
The trouble is, some factions forget that it's the electorate that votes in governments, not themselves.
And it’s the members that vote in leadership elections.  Let’s face it, the PLP is not exactly a socialist party, it is stuffed full of career politicians who put their own narrowed minded agenda’s before that of country and the people. 
Quote
Starmer currently has the best public approval ratings for a Labour leader since............. Blair
Starmer has only been in the job for five minutes.  Blair – there’s no going back.  The UK doesn’t need two Tory parties,


New Labour?


New Labour is socialism for the rich.
New Labour is global imperialism and exploitation.
New Labour is privatisation.
New Labour is the contracting out of social services.
New Labour is PPI and PFI.
New Labour is the foreign ownership of our infrastructure.
New Labour taxes the poor and gives to the rich.
New Labour subsides wealthy business with a minimum wage and tax credits for the workforce.
New Labour is deregulation and exploitation.
New Labour is anti-trade union.
New Labour is no money left in the till.
New Labour is the Tory party.
 
 

37
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 21 June 2020, 10:51:35 AM »
 
Quote
Right. None of them have been elected.
Because the PLP would not back them.  No respect for the membership, and no party discipline.  Certain ‘Blairite’ PLP members actively campaigned against those leaders – they in effect campaigned against the Labour Party and for The Tories.
Quote
Now we have one that stands a fighting chance.
That remains to be seen.  The membership need to be respected and the country needs to be offered a choice.  But those same disloyal back stabbing anti-democratic Tory supporting Labour MPs are still there.
Quote
a right wing press
Don’t blame the press when they can’t keep up with the number of calls and misinformation presented to them from within the PLP.


That’s what makes me mad, for ten years now the Tory party has been in power one way or another – and it’s been kept in power by certain Labour MPs. We are in this mess becaues the Labour Party can't get its fucking act together. 

 

38
General / Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« on: 20 June 2020, 07:37:19 PM »

39
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 20 June 2020, 06:37:06 PM »
 
Quote
Unelectable Labour leaders,
Wrong.
Quote
a right wing press
Nothing to do with it.
Quote
endless squabbling in the Labour Party
Yeah something like that.  It is just a wee bit more serious than squabbling.    No party can win unless they unite.  The Labour MP’s that ensured their party lost three in a row are well aware of that.


Labour didn’t loose those elections as such, they threw away easy wins, and choose to park up on the opposition benches.


And those Labour MPs haven’t just delivered Tory governments they’ve given us BREXIT.


If the Labour party does not unite and offer the people of the UK (or should I say England and Wales - as next years Scottish elections may see Labour finished off)  an alternative to the neo liberal path we have been on for four decades now, then Labour is basically done.

 
Labour held Scotland for decades, now they have just one Westminster seat. 
 

40
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 20 June 2020, 05:06:16 PM »
Quote
You seem to prefer to see the Tories in power.
The Tories have been in power at Westminster, one way or another, for 40 years.
And don’t forget the Blairites in the Labour Party made sure the Tories won the last three elections.

41
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 20 June 2020, 11:39:00 AM »
 
Quote
Also, I know politics isn't (well shouldn't be) about winning or losing.
Let’s put it this way.  New Labour became increasingly unpopular in Scotland.


The Scottish Labour Party tried to distance themselves from some of New Labour’s policies, and made some public commitments to do so.  However;
To quote Gnasher
Quote
Now little Cranky does to a greater extent what she's told, by Westminster
Well clearly that is total and utter bollocks.  But it was the case when Labour was in government in Scotland – that is the Labour party that had held sway over Scottish voters for decades at that time.


 
Jack McConnel, under huge political and public pressure in Scotland, took a stand against some New Labour policies. However, his phone soon began ringing off the hook.  Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, John Prescott and others were soon screaming down the line and laying down the law. 



McConnel had to back down on a number of issues, he had to perform public u-turns and yes, he had to back right-wing New Labour policies that he knew were simply wrong and that he could never sell to the Scottish people.


Labour in Scotland, is now on life support.


Don’t think for one minute the same could not happen to Labour in England. 



And Labour has never won a Westminster election without widespread Scottish support.


There is no going back to New Labour.
 

42
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 20 June 2020, 10:45:08 AM »
 
Quote
Yep Winning Labour.
New Labour is socialism for the rich.
New Labour is global imperialism and exploitation.
New Labour is privatisation.
New Labour is the contracting out of social services.
New Labour is PPI and PFI.
New Labour is the foreign ownership of our infrastructure.
New Labour taxes the poor and gives to the rich.
New Labour subsides wealthy business with a minimum wage and tax credits for the workforce. 
New Labour is deregulation and exploitation.
New Labour is anti-trade union.
New Labour is no money left in the till.
New Labour is the Tory party.
Quote
We are all socialists.
There was nothing socialist about New Labour.
 
 

43
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 19 June 2020, 09:07:55 PM »
Meanwhile;

44
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 19 June 2020, 08:46:22 PM »
 
Quote
Yet when they last had a credible leader, they won three in a row.
Not New Labour?   FFS!



You don’t mean war criminal, serial liar and Thatcher’s greatest ever achievement Tony Blair?


The Tony Blair that started the privatisation of the NHS.  The Tony Blair that has saddled both the country and local councils with PPP and PFI rip offs.  The scale of this rip off, this massive transfer of money from poor to rich beggars’ belief.


And his Scottish chancellor, probably the worst chancellor the UK has ever had. “No more boom and bust” said Gordon as he delivered what became known as Brown’s miracle economy.  Except there are no fucking miracles, and Brown's credit boosted economy and his belief in ever rising asset values and his admiration for corrupt and incompetent bankers contributed massively to the banking crises of 2007.


Tony Blair bears huge responsibility in relation to where we find ourselves today.
Nobody has done more to damage the reputation of our democracy than Tony Blair – the man who took us to war on a lie.  Mr shock and awe.   
Tony Blair, the man who effectively destroyed the Labour Party in Scotland.


It was Tony Blair too that first started creating a hostile environment for immigrants, smashing down doors and detaining families in the small hours of the morning – something we put a stop to in Scotland. 



It was New Labour that has led to so many being disillusioned with democracy to the extent, and you hear it time and time again on this very forum – 'politicians are all lairs in it for themselves'.


These are dangerous times for the English Labour Party (The Scottish Party is on life support – effectively dead).  And one of it’s biggest problems is it refuses to address the issues of it’s recent past – it is in denial, and as such is in danger of once again, instead working for the people, sliding back into its old New Labour ways and becoming once again, as it was through the 00’s, the enemy of the people.



Be careful what you wish for.
 
 

45
General / Re: This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...
« on: 19 June 2020, 07:29:18 PM »
Quote
Johnson was elected, first by the Tory membership and then by the electorate, because he was 'popular'.
That's the trick he pulled when elected as Mayor of London. But they soon found him out. No substance at all, no preparation, so strategic direction, no leadership. He formed a cabinet from a load of Johnson supporters, rather than based on talent. He's a mini Trump.
Yes the pandemic and then the B word will find him out. The public will get fed up with him, and the Tory Party will ditch him.
Yup.
Quote
You don't win elections, you lose them.
That's three in a row.  Three stolls in the park.   There is no party disipline.  And in fact there's probably too many Tories in the Labour party.

46
General / Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« on: 19 June 2020, 07:23:56 PM »

47
General / Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« on: 19 June 2020, 07:19:28 PM »
Quote
They don't know either, more speculation, so what's your point?
Exactly - that's is my point.
Let me go back and quote myself :D
Quote
Best outlook is – it will all be over by the autumn.  With over 50% of the population having contracted it, improved treatment a and virus that has mutated and become less potent.


Worst outlook is – Maybe about 5% of the population has had it.  The virus is seasonally less active, and we enter peak virus going into the winter.
If I was a betting man - I'd put my money somewhere in the middle. :lol

48
General / Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« on: 19 June 2020, 07:16:04 PM »
 
Quote
I'd also add, Scotland handling of this virus isn't anything to go shouting about either, it's worse the down here.
That remains to be seen.  I suspect Scotland will do a good bit better than England at the end of the day.


But yeah, the reality is it’s been a disaster right across the UK.  People in Scotland are asking questions.


One of the questions will be devolution.   You are right to a degree – Scotland’s hands are tied.  We can only act within our devolved powers.  Whilst Westminster had nothing whatsoever to do with the Scottish Governments decision to clear bed blockers from our hospitals, we were not free to explore other options that could have considerably slowed or controlled the virus.


For example – we have no control over our borders. We cannot close them or enforce quarantine.  Scotland’s borders are a matter for Westminster.  Covid19 has brought this into sharp focus. 



The shortcomings of our limited powers will not go unnoticed across the country.  And well have a look at the other thread.  The Prime Minister that we did not vote for – you know what I mean Tim Tam’s and Vegemite.  The rest of the world may be laughing at Great Britain, but Scotland ain’t amused. 
 

49
General / Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« on: 19 June 2020, 07:01:43 PM »
 
Quote
Flu is flu, it just changes it coat, more of your utter waffle! 
Flu is no more just flu than coronavirus is just coronavirus.


I mean take your pick,


Given the choice – seasonal human flu – or Spanish flu (a mutation from birds)
Given the choice – common cold – or Covid19 (a mutation from bats) 



I'll take seasonal flu and the common cold.  You can have Spannish flu, followed by Covid19 - been noce knwoing you Gnasher :lol
 

50
General / Re: COVID-19 AKA Coronavirus - A sense of proportion...
« on: 19 June 2020, 06:56:47 PM »
 
Quote
Quote
 
    To gain immunity to Covid19 you first have to be infected.
 
 
No.  As with most infectious diseases, you only need to get the anti bodies to recognise the coat/jacket.  With all vaccines they don't give you the disease, just enough to trigger an anti body response, the hard part is getting your system to remember it for long enough to break the cycle and force infection to a very low level.  As with some other current vaccines you need boosters throughout you life to keep the memory. 
There is no vaccine.  So, the only way to gain immunity is to get Covid19 and survive.


Scientists generally agree that there will be immunity, but it is a matter of how long that immunity will last.


Previous studies of Coronavirus suggest immunity will probably be limited.
 
Quote
Over 35 years, University of Amsterdam scientists regularly tested 10 men for four types of coronaviruses which cause the common cold.
 
Most participants - aged between 27 and 66 - caught the viruses again within three years, with the study concluding "coronavirus protective immunity is short-lasting".
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-study-suggests-covid-19-immunity-could-last-just-six-months-11993391
 
 
 

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