Date: 09-12-18  Time: 19:01 PM

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Messages - VNA

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1
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 07 December 2018, 05:49:15 PM »

2
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 07 December 2018, 05:44:49 PM »
 
Quote
You can't vote either in or out the unelected members of The European Commission who propose the legislation that the MEP's vote on.

You can’t vote in or out your Prime Minister.  You can’t vote in or out government ministers.  So by your logic our government and our PM are unelected.
 
Quote
I never had any objection to free movement within the EU.

As I said before - Note also that under directive 2004/38 EU migrants only have a right to residence in a member state for 3 months.  After that they need to have one of three things in order to continue to stay – A job – A job lined up – or be able to demonstrate that they have the means to support themselves. 
 
 So we already have the means to control EU movement.  Freedom of movement is a non-issue.
 
Quote
Its all those that get in from outside, the spongers, the thieves, the disease carriers, the terrorists, those that have abandoned their wives and children, that get here, are declared illegal and disappear to work in the black economy, then want to change our society to reflect their interests.
Whilst I disagree most strongly at your general description of immigrants from outside the EU Agricola, I would point out again that leaving the EU will make no difference to non-EU immigration.   I would further point out that our illegal wars, proxy wars and weapons sales have contributed massively to UK immigration.
 

3
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 11:57:37 PM »
Quote
not that it was very upmarket from in inception. as it was a post for VNA  :eek :eek :eek :lol :lol :lol .
Cheeky bastard :foc

4
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 11:56:05 PM »
Borris will mount a leadership challenge.

Boris tae the rescue :eek


5
General / Re: Flat Battery
« on: 06 December 2018, 07:20:22 PM »
I blame the EU.
Gotta blame somebody or something :lol

6
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 07:13:33 PM »

7
General / Re: Aldi Merino Ski Wear Winter riding
« on: 06 December 2018, 05:52:26 PM »
Ah well, how about another wee hill walking snap tae cheer you up;


8
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 05:05:07 PM »

9
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 05:01:58 PM »
Quote
And that just goes to prove what kind of person you are.
You can trivialise it if you like. He was lucky to survive.
Do you know what sort of an injury a high velocity round causes.
He almost lost his leg and was lucky not to lose his life.
I think only you would stoop as low as to try and make a personal comment towards my Great Grandfather.
There are plenty of other things you could have mentioned to make your point.
You did state it was one reason you wanted to leave the EU.
Quote
Anyone who carries as much VeNom As you do and obviously takes great delight in insulting people and calling everyone they don't agree with racists can't be very happy.
Really :eek :eek

10
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 04:36:51 PM »
So here's the possibe options as we stand today.
Note - this may all change at a moments notice. :lol


May’s deal passes A political shock: Theresa May squeaks over the line after convincing Brexiteers that it was her deal or no Brexit — and Remainers that it was her deal or a no-deal Brexit. The DUP then rains on May’s parade. Seething over the backstop, it declares that the confidence and supply agreement is over for good. This scenario could involve delaying the initial vote in the hope this gives MPs time to come around.

It passes on a second vote Theresa May’s deal fails to pass first time round by 50 votes. Insisting Nothing Has Changed, the Prime Minister flies to an EU council meeting the following day where she wins some ‘clarifications’ for wavering MPs. The markets start to get jittery about no deal and sterling falls. Nervous MPs begrudgingly vote the deal through. Ministers refer to this as the TARP method, in reference to the market panic which helped the US government push its 2008 bank bailout through Congress.

 EEA membership When the withdrawal agreement returns for a second vote, MPs add an amendment instructing the government to negotiate a Norway-style Brexit which would see the UK enter the EEA — the thinking being that this avoids the perils of the backstop. Remain-minded cabinet members support this safer option, as do a chunk of Tory MPs, Labour MPs and the DUP, because Northern Ireland would not be treated differently. May’s position becomes untenable as EEA membership means the continuation of freedom of movement: her one remaining Brexit red line.

 Early election The Prime Minister’s deal loses by more than 100 votes. As civil war breaks out in the Tory party (again), Labour makes its play for an early election and tries to defeat the government in a confidence motion. Angered over the backstop, the DUP say they will vote with opposition MPs unless the Tories agree to change tack. May refuses, the motion passes and the Commons has 14 days to approve a new government — perhaps the Tories led by a DUP-friendly leader like Boris Johnson. However, any Tory Brexiteer promising to ditch the backstop and pursue a hard Brexit loses the backing of pro-Remain Tories like Anna Soubry and Dominic Grieve. The country goes to the polls.

Second referendum There is no consensus on a way forward. MPs ask whether the only way to break the deadlock is to go back to the people. Cross-party MPs tied to the People’s Vote campaign say they will vote for the government’s deal on the condition it is put to a public vote — with Remain on the ballot paper. Brexiteers ponder whether the only way left to get a proper Brexit is to win another referendum. Desperate to break the impasse, May says she will take her deal to a vote. Fights ensue over what the question should be. Article 50 is suspended to make time for a second referendum.

 No-deal Brexit The government’s Brexit deal is rejected across the House. MPs then spend the next eight weeks bickering about the varying merits of EEA membership, a second referendum and revoking Article 50. May faces a challenge over her leadership from MPs who blame her for the mess. No consensus can be found, the clock ticks on and time runs out: the UK leaves on WTO terms. A belated attempt at a negotiated no deal gets under way to allow planes to fly, citizens to travel and goods to flow between the UK and the Continent.

No Brexit After May’s historic defeat, the letters go in and Theresa May loses a confidence vote. Concluding this is not a time for partisan politics, cross-party MPs come together and form a government of ‘national unity’. Their first step? To revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit — at least until an alternative plan is decided.


https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/war-gaming-the-brexit-vote-seven-scenarios-for-what-happens-next/

11
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 04:28:35 PM »

12
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 04:12:46 PM »
 So, so far the BREXITEER foccers reasons for leaving the EU are
1.        Day light running lights
2.       Curved bananas
3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather got shot in the leg by a German 100 years ago.
 
Anything else?
 

13
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 04:09:33 PM »

14
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 04:08:20 PM »
Quote
Abnormal curvature of bananas

Quote
A Brussels ban on bendy bananas is one of the EU’s most persistent myths.
Bananas have always been classified by quality and size for international trade. Because the standards, set by individual governments and the industry, were confusing, the European Commission was asked to draw up new rules.
Commission regulation 2257/94 decreed that bananas in general should be “free from malformation or abnormal curvature”. Those sold as “extra class” must be perfect, “class 1” can have “slight defects of shape” and “class 2” can have full-scale “defects of shape”.
Nothing is banned under the regulation, which sets grading rules requested by industry to make sure importers – including UK wholesalers and supermarkets – know exactly what they will be getting when they order abox of bananas.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/11/boris-johnson-launches-the-vote-leave-battlebus-in-cornwall
So another myth.
You will note that this piece of legislation was requested by the fruit and veg industry itself.

15
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 03:40:07 PM »
Quote
Daylight running lights
You want to leave the EU becuase of daylight running lights?
I mean what the  :eek

16
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 03:38:26 PM »

17
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 03:35:38 PM »
Give us examples of the laws you object to.

18
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 06 December 2018, 02:45:18 PM »
I still haven't got a clue as to the 'laws' you object to?
And how those 'laws' are impacting on your life.

19
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 05 December 2018, 09:28:03 PM »

20
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 05 December 2018, 08:15:33 PM »
 Oh and talking of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists;
 
Well has anybody seen Nigel recently?  I couldn’t believe it yesterday when I saw the short report on the BBC concerning his resignation from UKIP.  Apparently over some little prick called Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon being taken on by UKIP as an ‘advisor’.
 
You know when I saw that a week or so ago on Twitter, I actually thought it was piss taking or fake news or something.  I didn’t pay any attention to it.  Even I didn’t think UKIP was that extreme, or for that matter stupid.
 
So it’s now fruitcakes loonies and racists.  I think we can drop the closet bit. :lol

 

21
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 05 December 2018, 07:06:13 PM »
Looks fine tae me.

22
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 05 December 2018, 06:56:45 PM »

23
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 05 December 2018, 06:51:34 PM »
If such a scenario does indeed arise.
It's not a matter of victory, simply a matter of saving our country from itself.
It is clear that at some point this nonsense has to be nipped in the bud.
At the end of the day it was and is about the Tory party.

24
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 05 December 2018, 06:26:59 PM »
 
Quote
It's the possibility of Remain winning a second referendum that you need to really worry about. Does anyone seriously think it wouldn't be as close either way as the first one was?
 Leave will have had to win twice. Remain only have to win once. That's why they're so keen to have another crack at it ;)
 
 If there were a second, the result would be binding. Say Remain win by 52% to 48%. That's the same as the margin Leave won by in the first referendum so it's a draw over the two rounds, but only the second one counts and then we're stuck in that rotten to the core institution forever.
 They'd be as ungracious in victory as they are in defeat. They would be rubbing Leaver's noses right in it.
 If Remain lost again I dread to think how low they would stoop in an attempt to overturn the democratic result again.

 
I wouldn’t get too excited about a second referendum.  It is only one option.  Though it has become a viable option.


One of the key moments yesterday was the ruling by the European Court of Justice’s advocate general;
Quote
The formal legal recommendation cites Britain's "sovereignty" in treaty-making matters and says withdrawal "may be revoked at any time" during the negotiating period, as long as it is done in good faith.

So what does that mean?  I think in practise it means that NO DEAL is now buried.  I think it also means that May’s deal is dead.  May has tried everything she can to block this advice.  Why?  Because without an exit she can hold a gun to MP’s heads and state, it’s my deal or NO DEAL.


Tory MPs now know that they can vote down May’s deal without the fear of a NO DEAL BREXIT occurring by default.  All MP’s now know it is safe to vote this deal down.


So what could happen is…..  May’s deal is voted down.  May might try again (perhaps doubtful as she may lose spectacularly in the first vote) but it could be voted down a second time.  May will be left with no credibility and the government will be at war with itself as the clock ticks slowly to Armageddon and a NO DEAL BREXIT.


But the government will not risk NO DEAL.  There are only a few dozen MP’s who are in favour of NO DEAL.  Parliament now has the power to call a vote on article 50.


NO DEAL will not happen because the parliament will stop it.  As a sovereign state, as a representative democracy, out MP’s have the power to act to stop such a disaster.


Our democracy is alive and well. :D
 

25
General / Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« on: 05 December 2018, 06:08:18 PM »
Quote
Quote from: VNA on 04 December 2018, 08:52:44 PM
Quote
I think Minford is absolutely wrong about that.

 So what you are doing is taking an economic model and cherry picking the bits you like and dismissing those you don’t. 
 
 
 
 Ah, if only life could be like that.
 
 

Quote from: VNA on 01 December 2018, 01:24:56 PM

 And can I come back to the one thing I think Minford is absolutely right about; 

Quote
Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.

I’m not promoting Minford's view.  I am not cherry picking it,  I am criticising it.
 

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