Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: darrsi on 17 July 2018, 12:32:50 pm
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I've waited long enough now so it's eventually time to ask for your font of knowledge.
There's a noise coming from my bike that I can't even fathom out whereabouts it's even from yet due to added wind noise?
Best description is a whirring sound which seems to go along with the engine speed, most noticeable when I shut off the throttle and let the bike slow down with the engine. Imagine clicking a cable tie really quickly but it's constant.
Thing is, it only goes away when I pull the clutch in.
So that rules out anything to do with the wheels or wheel bearings.
It doesn't go away either if I use one or both brakes, it just slows the noise down, but as soon as the clutch is pulled in it's gone.
It sounds a bit too loud to me to be a vibration thing, although I've not completely ruled that out yet, but from what I can guess I don't think it's coming from the rear of the bike.
And pulling the clutch in doesn't stop the chain from moving so it can't be that either.
Any thoughts or ideas welcome, as firstly it's annoying the hell out of me, and secondly, something's obviously not right at all is it?
Cheers, D.
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Does it make the noise when stationary? If so, it could be the clucth basket though that tends to only be at idle if the cars balance/idle speed is wrong.
is it speed sensitive? ie the faster your traveling the faster the clicking? If so, it could be a stiff link on the chain.
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Does it make the noise when stationary? If so, it could be the clucth basket though that tends to only be at idle if the cars balance/idle speed is wrong.
is it speed sensitive? ie the faster your traveling the faster the clicking? If so, it could be a stiff link on the chain.
It’s speed sensitive.
It’s not the chain, because i’d feel that on the footpeg, plus the chain still moves when the clutch is pulled in, which is when the noise will stop.
There’s plenty of things i can safely rule out, but it still doesn’t leave me with anything i can think of as a culprit?
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Just had a look over the chain, it’s in really good condition, i’ve been putting engine oil on it with a paintbrush every couple of weeks so the links were moving really easily.
Exhaust is all good, nothing loose or flapping about.
Only other moving parts i can think of, other than the engine itself, are the waterpump and the speedo sensor, but again the noise goes away with the clutch pulled in so can’t be them.
Both wheels spin quite happily on the centre stand, with the pads not even touching the discs so nothing sticking at all in the pistons.
Kinda stumped now? :look
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I may be being naive here but you've said repeatedly that the noise goes away when you pull the clutch lever? So surely the first thing to do would be check over the clutch?
I've no clue what it could be but just seems logical no?
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I reckon it's the chain and sprockets.
The noise goes away when you pull the clutch because you are unloading the chain.
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I may be being naive here but you've said repeatedly that the noise goes away when you pull the clutch lever? So surely the first thing to do would be check over the clutch?
I've no clue what it could be but just seems logical no?
I have considered it maybe clutch slip, but i know what that feels like and the bike is showing no signs of that whatsoever, i can give the throttle a lot of welly without any slipping feeling at all, plus i remember that is more of a higher pitched grinding sound.
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I reckon it's the chain and sprockets.
The noise goes away when you pull the clutch because you are unloading the chain.
This is now becoming favourite, although i don't get why?
I quickly gave all the brake pad pins a clean up after work yesterday and as i had gloves on i physically felt and examined the whole chain and there were no stiff links at all and as i said earlier it appeared to be in really good nick.
So why would it suddenly start making a noise? I expect it when they're new but i've never had one make a noise before without having a stiff link?
I've now just found this article as well which does describe the same thing quite accurately.
https://www.motorcycleforum.com/59-motorcycle-repair/105036-friction-noise-deceleration.html (https://www.motorcycleforum.com/59-motorcycle-repair/105036-friction-noise-deceleration.html)
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Check the sprockets (especially the front one) for hooking.
I recently tightened my chain and it started making a hell of a racket when I would roll off the throttle using engine braking. The front sprocket had started to hook and once I'd replaced the chain and sprockets the noise went away.
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I quickly gave all the brake pad pins a clean up after work yesterday and as i had gloves on i physically felt and examined the whole chain and there were no stiff links at all and as i said earlier it appeared to be in really good nick.
So why would it suddenly start making a noise? I expect it when they're new but i've never had one make a noise before without having a stiff link?
Wheel alignment after adjusting the chain? Perhaps combined with a particular level of wear and tear?
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I quickly gave all the brake pad pins a clean up after work yesterday and as i had gloves on i physically felt and examined the whole chain and there were no stiff links at all and as i said earlier it appeared to be in really good nick.
So why would it suddenly start making a noise? I expect it when they're new but i've never had one make a noise before without having a stiff link?
Wheel alignment after adjusting the chain? Perhaps combined with a particular level of wear and tear?
Seems okay, i’m a bit fussy about the wheel alignment and even had a whinge when my last tyre was fitted because it didn’t feel like it was straight enough.
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I’d check the front sprocket too.
If it’s starting to get slightly hooked the chain will get a “flick” as the tooth suddenly lets go of the roller when the bottom run is under tension. If the clutch is engaged the bottom run will be slack and each link can free itself from the hook quietly. It’s a bit like the difference between twanging a rubber band when it’s taut and when it’s slack.
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Finally got round to having a good look at things yesterday.
Sprockets look okay to me, and as i said before there is definitely no stiff links in the chain, it's in very good condition with all links moving freely, and no hint of any knocking on the footpeg whatsoever.
One thing that i have thought of though is that the noise only started after i starting brushing engine oil on the chain every other week.
For decades i've only ever used chain lube before on all my chains.
So am i hearing a different chain noise that i'm simply not used to?
Chain lube can be thick and gungy, whereas engine oil has made the chain look and feel like new.
Might be a coincidence, but i realigned the wheel again anyway and oiled it again and the noise is still there.
Just a thought, maybe the cause?
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Clean the oil off the chain, then put chain lube back on. See if the noise changes
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Clean the oil off the chain, then put chain lube back on. See if the noise changes
Yeah i know what you're saying, i've already considered that, but the chain looks so healthy, if that's the right terminology, that i kind of feel a bit reluctant to gunge it back up again, but i'll probably have to use it as a process of elimination.
If my hearing wasn't so over sensitive it wouldn't be an issue but i can hear a pin drop from a mile away so to me it's overly irritating. :lol
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Clean the oil off the chain, then put chain lube back on. See if the noise changes
Yeah i know what you're saying, i've already considered that, but the chain looks so healthy, if that's the right terminology, that i kind of feel a bit reluctant to gunge it back up again, but i'll probably have to use it as a process of elimination.
If my hearing wasn't so over sensitive it wouldn't be an issue but i can hear a pin drop from a mile away so to me it's overly irritating. :lol
WHAT, couldn't hear you!!
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Clean the oil off the chain, then put chain lube back on. See if the noise changes
Yeah i know what you're saying, i've already considered that, but the chain looks so healthy, if that's the right terminology, that i kind of feel a bit reluctant to gunge it back up again, but i'll probably have to use it as a process of elimination.
If my hearing wasn't so over sensitive it wouldn't be an issue but i can hear a pin drop from a mile away so to me it's overly irritating. :lol
WHAT, couldn't hear you!!
I heard you type that :lol :lol
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Had to go to work on Sunday so when i got home and the chain was still warm i gave it a good spraying of Wurth chain lube to see if it makes any difference to the noise.
Lo and behold, on the way to work this morning the noise has reduced by as much as 70% i reckon.
I can still hear it a little bit but metal on metal is never gonna be silent, and because of how much quieter it is i probably never even noticed it before.
So at least it’s not actually a problem as such, just a bit annoying to hear, but it would seem the engine oil just free’s up every link so much that the chain plays a different tune to what i’ve always been used to. :)
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Well that was shortlived :groan
I reckon that the journey to work this morning was enough to flick off any excess lube, then on the way home tonight the noise was a bit lively again.
Not as bad as before but it was still there, it’s just bloody aggravating. :'(
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Have you tried earplugs?
Glue them all round the inside of the chain ;)
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Have you tried earplugs?
Glue them all round the inside of the chain ;)
Or better still, glue them into your ears.
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Poxy noise is getting more irritating, i'm now thinking it could be to do with the chain slider, maybe worn, but can't examine it or be sure without stripping it down which right now is a bit of a no no due to needing the bike at a moments notice.
There's no performance issues, and still no feeling whatsoever through the footpeg, so "i don't think" any harm is being done, but the whirring sound is a bit vexing.
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You say that the noise stops when you pull the clutch in and that this rules out wheel bearings. But pulling the clutch in removes drive from the rear wheel, which removes a force applied; if the bearings are starting to fail, I think they would be affected by this. Obviously eventually they'd get to a point where it would be detected all the time, clutch or no clutch, but you wouldn't want it to get to that point.
I'd also look at condition of the cush drive rubbers, and I still can't help but feel the chain can't be ruled out yet.
My chain slider is pretty worn, grooved, but doesn't cause any noise, still has plenty of thickness to do its job. I reckon that's a red herring.
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You say that the noise stops when you pull the clutch in and that this rules out wheel bearings. But pulling the clutch in removes drive from the rear wheel, which removes a force applied; if the bearings are starting to fail, I think they would be affected by this. Obviously eventually they'd get to a point where it would be detected all the time, clutch or no clutch, but you wouldn't want it to get to that point.
I'd also look at condition of the cush drive rubbers, and I still can't help but feel the chain can't be ruled out yet.
My chain slider is pretty worn, grooved, but doesn't cause any noise, still has plenty of thickness to do its job. I reckon that's a red herring.
I changed the cush drive rubbers a few years ago just for the sake of it, but the ones i removed looked like fine anyway.
If it was rear wheel bearings would i not hear "something" spinning the wheel on the centre stand?
It spins very freely either way, with no binding or anything going on.
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I changed the cush drive rubbers a few years ago just for the sake of it, but the ones i removed looked like fine anyway.
If it was rear wheel bearings would i not hear "something" spinning the wheel on the centre stand?
It spins very freely either way, with no binding or anything going on.
I'm quite particular about wheel bearings, as I've had a set fail catastrophically in far less than ideal conditions before. I also checked mine more recently (different bike) just using the "excess movement, spin wheel, check it spins freely, listen for noise" method. Seemed fine. Shortly after, took the bike for a service to have a bearing found to be on the edge of failure. What mileage is on the current bearings?
Remember that when you just spin the wheel by hand to check, the wheel is not under the load it would be from the engine, clutch out.
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I changed the cush drive rubbers a few years ago just for the sake of it, but the ones i removed looked like fine anyway.
If it was rear wheel bearings would i not hear "something" spinning the wheel on the centre stand?
It spins very freely either way, with no binding or anything going on.
I'm quite particular about wheel bearings, as I've had a set fail catastrophically in far less than ideal conditions before. I also checked mine more recently (different bike) just using the "excess movement, spin wheel, check it spins freely, listen for noise" method. Seemed fine. Shortly after, took the bike for a service to have a bearing found to be on the edge of failure. What mileage is on the current bearings?
Remember that when you just spin the wheel by hand to check, the wheel is not under the load it would be from the engine, clutch out.
Don't really know, i had seized disc bolts, then one snapped inside the wheel, so i just replaced the wheel.
That was 7 years and 20,000 miles ago though.
I am beginning to suspect the noise is from the middle of the bike, it doesn't really sound like it's behind me.
One thing that has crossed my mind though, if the chain slide gets very worn is it possible that the chain could rub somewhere on the metal of the swingarm?
If this was possible then i'm guessing it will only get louder and louder as time goes on.
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Don't really know, i had seized disc bolts, then one snapped inside the wheel, so i just replaced the wheel.
That was 7 years and 20,000 miles ago though.
I am beginning to suspect the noise is from the middle of the bike, it doesn't really sound like it's behind me.
One thing that has crossed my mind though, if the chain slide gets very worn is it possible that the chain could rub somewhere on the metal of the swingarm?
If this was possible then i'm guessing it will only get louder and louder as time goes on.
I'd be inclined to change the wheel bearings out anyway in that case. Not like it's a mega expensive thing to do, and then you know where you're at with them. Trust me, you don't want them to fail on you on the approach to the Dartford Tunnel at rush hour :lol
I have learned from the fairing infill panels on the Fazer thou that what a noise is and where it's coming from can be a real puzzle, and not to trust where I think it's coming from :lol
If the chain has worn through a slider/guide and is rubbing on metal, that should be easy enough to verify by sight?
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Don't really know, i had seized disc bolts, then one snapped inside the wheel, so i just replaced the wheel.
That was 7 years and 20,000 miles ago though.
So you have done 20k on it but how many had already been put on it, or possibly it had already had some new bearings put in but of questionable quality ?
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Don't really know, i had seized disc bolts, then one snapped inside the wheel, so i just replaced the wheel.
That was 7 years and 20,000 miles ago though.
So you have done 20k on it but how many had already been put on it, or possibly it had already had some new bearings put in but of questionable quality ?
I'm gonna be bold and say it's not the bearings that are the problem.
It's from around the middle of the bike, ie: the chain area, where the noise is coming from, and although the noise quietens down when the clutch is pulled in i can't understand why wheel bearings would go silent.
I've had knackered bearings on previous bikes before and they've never made a rubbing sound, they tend to either make a high pitched squeak or grinding noise when they're on their way out.
There's no movement in the rear wheel whatsoever, and when i spin it forwards or backwards it rotates totally freely with no noises at all and no binding with the pads. Same as the front wheel as well.
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What about the sprocket carrier or swingarm bearing?
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If it goes away when the clutch lever is pulled in then it sounds like normal thrust bearing rumble to me which is common on four cylinder bikes and nothing to worry about. I had it years ago on a Thundercat and was told that this is common by a Yamaha main dealer. I never worried about it again and put another 30k on the bike before I part-ex'd it.
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Might be getting somewhere with this now at last.
Popped round my mates house for a second opinion, and with a tiny bit of load on the throttle to stop the chain jumping about we both had a listen with the bike on the centre stand.
I noticed that there were a few drips of coolant coming out from the water pump area.
So now as well as a dodgy O ring i’m wondering if there’s an issue with the impeller, which could well be the cause of the noise i’m hearing?
I had one go on me before on my old bike, although i don’t know if they are metal fins or plastic on these bikes?
That could explain the noise from around the front sprocket area as well as it’s right next to it.
Plus the fan came on yesterday, and today as well, when trying to listen for the noise so that’s another sign something’s wrong. Bloody thing made me jump, i can’t remember the last time i heard how loud it was. :lol
I took tomorrow off to do an oil change and carb balance as i’m working this weekend, but now i can’t do that as the bike will overheat.
I’ve ordered another pump and seal though.
But not to worry, my day won’t be wasted as i now have a leak somwhere in my new rear tyre as well :'(
It’s not a puncture, it’s either the valve again or the rims leaking, but i put 40psi in this morning and it was 30psi this evening, so it has to be sorted asap.
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"...On the fzs600, the oil pump is gear driven on the right hand side of the engine behind the clutch.. It has a shaft only that goes through the engine and drives the water pump on the other side. 2 separate components although sharing a shaft..."
Just read this on another page on here (courtesy of Bretty), would this mean the oil and water pumps both disengage when the clutch is pulled in?
If they do then that would further enhance the chance that it's a water pump problem, as the noise goes away when i use the clutch, plus it's not an instant shut off, it sounds like a very quick winding down which could be the impeller blades slowing down as they are not being driven for a split second.
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Spoke to a mechanic earlier when getting my tyre sorted, and apparently the oil/water pumps don't disengage when the clutch is pulled in.
But then it got me thinking, when i pull the clutch in i shut the throttle off as well so that would slow the water pump impeller, albeit for a split second, but enough to lessen the noise.
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I remember when I was changing my coolant that I waited over 10 mins on tick over and got bored waiting for the fan to come on and so gave up. Fazers are renowned for people not ever remembering the fans to come on, not even hot weather in traffic --- are they not ? And yet yours came on seemingly so readily. You may be on to something.
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Don't even know what made me do it, but i was reversing the bike down the alley between my house and next door and decided to give the throttle a bit of constant high revving as the sound between the houses becomes louder, and the whirring noise appeared at steady revs.
So it's seeming like the water pump is the favourite to be the culprit, as the non moving chain can now be ruled out completely.
As much as i want to go and get on with it all now, as i have all the parts and liquids i need, i'm on standby for work for today and tomorrow so i've booked Wednesday off to hopefully get everything fixed. Plus it "shouldn't" rain that day either.
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Watch this space, i spent 5.5hrs working on the bike today!
I ain't no mechanic, but i like to do things right.
Whether i got rid of "the noise", i don't know yet, but i will tomorrow?
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So yesterday gave the bike a bit of TLC at a leisurely pace on my day off.
Changed the leaking water pump, did a Radflush, then new coolant, oil change, carb balance, and gave the bike a good clean up.
Bike felt lovely to ride this morning on the way to work, the carbs were quite out of balance but are all level now and it really does make a noticeable difference, especially at low speeds.
Shame the bloody noise is still there though :'(
I checked over the chain again and the sprocket whilst cleaning all the shite out of the clutch cover and it does all look good to me, plus it’s aligned properly with no tight links whatsoever with the correct slack.
Which now does point back to chain noise again, but i’m wondering now if my over sensitive hearing is just picking up the whirring sound and i’m gonna have to try and ignore it.
I’m cerainly not gonna change the chain and sprockets for the sake of it, ‘cos they all look perfectly fine, so unless the noise takes a turn for the worse then i’m gonna leave it alone now.
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Put the bike on the centre stand again and shoved it 2nd gear with a pinch of throttle, the noise is like a vibrating buzzing but sounded like it was coming from the top end of the engine.
Any ideas people, it's starting to worry me a bit now?
Bike is running lovely, apart from the noise, but this is becoming bothersome.
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Could it be something as simple as some piece of bodywork or something buzzing? The thou's fairing liner panels are notorious for it, and it's hard to pinpoint when you don't know what it is. Sounds like impending doom too, and all it needs is a bit of extra foam to damp it.
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Could it be something as simple as some piece of bodywork or something buzzing? The thou's fairing liner panels are notorious for it, and it's hard to pinpoint when you don't know what it is. Sounds like impending doom too, and all it needs is a bit of extra foam to damp it.
I have considered a vibration issue, and i was actually thinking it might be my metal radiator cover.
But after taking my lid off and sticking my ear near the engine it does sound internal when i get the right revs, and towards the top end of the engine.
I'm starting to get minor cam chain rattle again as well now, but i'm used to that noise and it's probably just between clicks. Remember i only commute on it so it takes a lot longer for the tensioner to go to the next notch 'cos i'm very rarely doing any motorway runs or ragging it at all, just going to and from work in traffic.
Noise still disappears when the clutch is pulled in, but if i shut off the throttle and let the engine slow the bike down the noise is still there.
I also found that i can hear it most down side roads when i'm riding in between parked cars, the sound is much more obvious.
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A minor exhaust blow? Checked the tightness of the header pipe nuts, and the seal?
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A minor exhaust blow? Checked the tightness of the header pipe nuts, and the seal?
Hmmm, that's a good shout, i'll look into that later and let you know!
Been a long time since the headers were last removed, i'll start spraying the nut & bolts now to reduce my pain levels in case they play up.
I just ordered some copper gaskets as well, it certainly won't hurt to replace them anyway.
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Had a check of the exhaust nuts, and 7 moved okay so no issues there, but one seems to have gone completely wrong.
10mm socket spins easily over it, but a 9mm is too small.
And of course it's one of the hard to get to ones in the middle.
Looks like it's just rusted and disintegrated away on the outside.
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Try a British size socket - I think a 3/8ths inch is slightly smaller than a 10mm.
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Try a British size socket - I think a 3/8ths inch is slightly smaller than a 10mm.
I’m on call for work all this weekend so not gonna attempt anything until i’m ready to go all out to get the nut off.
I ordered some new nuts today as well. After a lot of searching about i found some at a reasonable price eventually, so i need to wait for them too.
I also have one of those sockets with the pins in that fit to any size nut, if i can get that near it i reckon that’ll get it off.
So weird though how it’s just rusted away.
They wanted £5 each per nut on Ebay, but i found a place up north that does them for £1.52 each.
www.bike-parts-yam.com (http://www.bike-parts-yam.com)
Part number: 901790666800 (90179-06668 is the Yamaha part number per nut)
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So weird though how it’s just rusted away.
They do that. I'm surprised you only had trouble with one.
When you've found a good fitting socket try heating the nut with a blow torch, just don't forget it's hot and burn your fingers when you put the socket on.
Socket with pins is your 2nd to last resort. Dremel or nut splitter (hammer and chisel) is your last one!
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Why not just replace the original nuts with stainless. Cheaper and they won't rust.
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Why not just replace the original nuts with stainless. Cheaper and they won't rust.
It's taken 18 years for this one to rust away, i'll think i'll take the chance, plus these bikes will probably be totally illegal in the future the way things are going :lol
Plus i was kinda hoping on having something like this instead :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFFrHQxQVc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFFrHQxQVc)
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Won't have to worry about potholes with one of them.
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That's amazing.
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Changed the gaskets on the exhaust headers today......eventually.
TWO studs snapped off, flush with the nut.
To cut a long story short, hours later after plenty of drilling and making extended thread nuts to slip over what was left of the stud thread (my mates handy work) we eventually got it back together.
Noise is still there though :'(
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I’ve replaced the front sprocket mid way through the chain’s life before. It does make a difference since it wears 3 times faster than the rear.
They're available with the rubber damper now for about £12.
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Sprocket does look okay to me visually.
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Sprocket does look okay to me visually.
Are you sure
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:lol
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Sprocket does look okay to me visually.
Run your finger over the surfaces and see if you can feel a "lip" where it may have started to hook, but it's not visually obvious.