BREXIT

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Quote from: VNA on 28 May 2019, 11:12:02 PM
 
    Can I just post this again;
    Harley Davidson looking for a European manufactuering base.
    https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/
 
    But of course like a great many companies one country they will not be considering right now is the UK.

Thank foc for that 

 

I'm with you there Hedgetrimmer over priced crap

 
I agree.  I have no interest in Harley Davidsons.  But I would quite happily see them manufactured here for the UK and Euro market. 



You are talking quality well paid jobs.


But the reality is Harley Davidson will not consider the UK as a manufacturing base for even a nono second. 



Nissan has cancelled the UK production of the X-Trail in the UK.  Honda is moving out lock, stop and barrel.  Schaeffler are moving out.  Michelin are moving out.  There is now a growing list of companies moving part or all of their production out of the UK.


The priority for these manufactures is to access the EU single market.  Even your darling economist Professor Minford, in his frankly flawed positive analysis of a NO DEAL BREXIT, admits that UK manufacturing will be all but wiped out.


I am, and continue to be, at a complete and total loss as to why any ordinary person in the UK would wish the UK to leave the EU and the single market.


We will become poorer outside the EU.

 
 

[fazersharp]

Very true of the party, but not all of their voters. As mentioned previously, 25% voted 'Leave' in the 2016 EU referendum.

So what? How someone voted previously doesn't mean that they will vote the same way next time (unless you're a rabid "my Party right or wrong" supporter).

And you don't know that they have changed their minds either.


However when you were adding up the various parties EU Parliament election votes into Remain V Leave totals the other day, you'd put every single Green voter into 'Remain'

Oh and apparently around 30% of Liberal Democrat supporters voted Leave in 2016, but you've put 100% of them in your 'Remain' tally too
 

Also there is another 3.6 million votes that you can remove from the remain tally.

[Hedgetrimmer]

We will become poorer outside the EU.

Never mind, it'll be a good bit of character building for you 

[mtread]

Are you heading up to Scotland mtread?.

Well, we're not all Rob Roys 
In other news, I see the Tory leadership fight has kicked off They're all stabbing each other in the back?
Who's your Least Worst candidate? Mine's Jeremy Hunt. He's slightly less obnoxious than most of the others

[fazersharp]

Well

• Rory Stewart looks like an old shoe.
• Matt Hancocks face looks like he is lying all the time.
• Sajid Javid has such a small face for his head there's room for an extra one above it.
• Esther Mcvey's voice is like some one trying to hold back vomit whilst talking.
• Andrea Leadsom looks like a school headmistress.
• James Cleaverly - well his problem is no one knows what he looks like.
• Kit Malthouse sounds like a micro brewery.
• Dominic Raab has a smarmy face and he NEVER blinks - you watch him.
• Boris Johnson wants it too much.
• Michael Gove has a face made out of rubber.
• Jeremy Hunt looks the most like a prime minister.     

[mtread]

• Jeremy Hunt looks the most like a prime minister.     
• [/l][/l]

He's also looked more like a Foreign Secretary....... than his predecessor
[/list]

[mtread]

25% of Green Party voters opted for Leave in the 2016 EU referendum apparently

Where did you get that figure from? The one I've seen says 20%, and that's YouGov which is usually pretty reliable.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted
Mind you, it also gives the UKIP voters who voted Remain as 5% They obviously didn't take their medication that day
The trouble is, both figures were obtained by sampling ie polling, and we all know how accurate that is. YouGov predicted a 4% lead for Remain on the eve of the referendum.
It's also comparing how people voted in the 2016 referendum with which party they voted for in the 2015 election. And as we all know, people can change their minds over time 

[YamFazFan]

25% of Green Party voters opted for Leave in the 2016 EU referendum apparently

Where did you get that figure from? The one I've seen says 20%, and that's YouGov which is usually pretty reliable.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

[YamFazFan]

Are you heading up to Scotland mtread?.

Well, we're not all Rob Roys 

[YamFazFan]

In other news, I see the Tory leadership fight has kicked off They're all stabbing each other in the back?
Who's your Least Worst candidate? Mine's Jeremy Hunt. He's slightly less obnoxious than most of the others

Hancock

[agricola]

Quote from: VNA on 28 May 2019, 11:12:02 PM
 
    Can I just post this again;
    Harley Davidson looking for a European manufactuering base.
    https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/
 
    But of course like a great many companies one country they will not be considering right now is the UK.

Thank foc for that 

 

I'm with you there Hedgetrimmer over priced crap

 
I agree.  I have no interest in Harley Davidsons.  But I would quite happily see them manufactured here for the UK and Euro market. 



You are talking quality well paid jobs.


But the reality is Harley Davidson will not consider the UK as a manufacturing base for even a nono second. 



Nissan has cancelled the UK production of the X-Trail in the UK.  Honda is moving out lock, stop and barrel.  Schaeffler are moving out.  Michelin are moving out.  There is now a growing list of companies moving part or all of their production out of the UK.


The priority for these manufactures is to access the EU single market.  Even your darling economist Professor Minford, in his frankly flawed positive analysis of a NO DEAL BREXIT, admits that UK manufacturing will be all but wiped out.


I am, and continue to be, at a complete and total loss as to why any ordinary person in the UK would wish the UK to leave the EU and the single market.


We will become poorer outside the EU.

You appear to suggest that we have as a nation, and as individuals, somehow become richer as a direct result of EU membership, that out manufacturing blossomed and grew during our membership. I see little evidence of that. Our Councils/local authorities are severely cash strapped, the NHS is chronically underfunded, the roads have all been carpet bombed with no hope of quality repairs, some people cant get to see a GP without a 2 week wait, we cant build our own power stations without funding/materials/labour/expertise from abroad, the streets are overrun by criminal gangs with no hope of apprehending many of them (and they know it), our schools churn out people unfit for the world of work cos they cant read or write, let alone string a sentence together. Our political systems are collapsing due to lack of confidence, the previously nationalised industries fleece money from us and dont invest to provide future security of supplies. During your so called golden period of membership, I was made redundant 4 times as companies shifted the work overseas, or as in one case, the EU created an internal market which made the product we recycled worth more as scrap.


Our membership of the EU has not been a Golden Period of British history

[mtread]

Hancock

 

[mtread]

Our Councils/local authorities are severely cash strapped, the NHS is chronically underfunded, the roads have all been carpet bombed with no hope of quality repairs, some people cant get to see a GP without a 2 week wait, we cant build our own power stations without funding/materials/labour/expertise from abroad, the streets are overrun by criminal gangs with no hope of apprehending many of them (and they know it), our schools churn out people unfit for the world of work cos they cant read or write, let alone string a sentence together.

Nothing to do with the EU. Deliberate underfunding by Tory government imposed austerity,  following collapse of unregulated banking system. For which we are all still paying, unless you are rich enough to avoid.

[fazersharp]

Our Councils/local authorities are severely cash strapped, the NHS is chronically underfunded, the roads have all been carpet bombed with no hope of quality repairs, some people cant get to see a GP without a 2 week wait, we cant build our own power stations without funding/materials/labour/expertise from abroad, the streets are overrun by criminal gangs with no hope of apprehending many of them (and they know it), our schools churn out people unfit for the world of work cos they cant read or write, let alone string a sentence together.

Nothing to do with the EU. Deliberate underfunding by Tory government imposed austerity,  following collapse of the labour party's unregulated banking system. For which we are all still paying, unless you are rich enough to avoid.

Fixed it for you.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

Our membership of the EU has not been a Golden Period of British history

That is not what I said.  And yes you are correct, we have suffered decades of manufacturing decline though decades of neo liberal politics.

Our Councils/local authorities are severely cash strapped,

They lost massive amounts of income and assets due to Tory polices.  Councils were forced to sell their housing stocks for example.  Millions of people are now stuck with massive mortgages or paying rip off rents.
 

the NHS is chronically underfunded

Over the last few decades there has been tax after tax cut for the well off, whilst taxes have increased overall for ordinary working people.  We have financed our infrastructure with private money and ended up paying for often substandard civil projects several times over.  We have been absolutely screwed on endless infrastructure projects. 

we cant build our own power stations without funding/materials/labour/expertise from abroad,

Again, the Tories choose to privatise our utilities allowing most of them to fall in to foreign ownership who take the profit out of the country.  We choose, not can’t, not to build our own utilities but to have other countries finance, build and take the profit.   Your rich Tory masters are investing their own money in the companies now building our infrastructure.  They also look to those companies for directorships and consultancy work once they have left parliament.


The Tories will not peruse the companies that they are investing in for the billions upon billions upon billions of tax that they are not paying to the exchequer.  It’s not in their interest.  They don’t need the NHS, and boy would they love to privatise it so they could make even more money from your misery.


At every turn New Labour and the Tories have ripped you off.  This is why people are angry, furious, and rightly so. 



But the EU did none of this to us.  Our woes are as a direct result of frankly discreetly corrupt and personally greedy right-wing politicians that we have suffered for decades now.


As you are probably aware I am keen to see Scotland become an independent nation.  It’s not out of some miss-guided dumb rose tinted patriotic stupid tartan nationalism.  I don’t care for that kinda shite.  It’s political.  A lot of us in Scotland understand what has been happening, and we understand why and how we have been screwed.  And the simple fact is England doesn’t get it, you show no sign of ever getting it, we therefore see no future for us in the United Kingdom.


The filthy rich bastards like Rees Mogg, Johnston, Nigel Farage are gonna screw you all again.  They are gonna get rich off the back of BREXIT whilst we all get screwed.
 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Fixed it for you.

New Labour = Tories.

[mtread]

Not denying it. But the imposed austerity and dismantling of the state,  is all Tory. Something they were delighted to have an excuse for.

[fazersharp]

Not denying it. But the imposed austerity and dismantling of the state,  is all Tory. Something they were delighted to have an excuse for.

What gets me is that you and your little red book waving mate think that all brexit supporters are also Conservative supporters, you constantly attack the conservatives - you will garner no argument from me with that tact. Yet you will constantly defend labours record which is far from perfect either. All governments (so far ) are self serving self and party first with their snouts in the trough and by leaving the EU and cutting out that whole layer of politicians we are making the trough shorter.

[mtread]

Well I'm fairly certain he's SNP and I tend to vote Green or Lib Dem. So I think you've missed your target.
No idea how others vote. We just hate the Tories 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Well I'm fairly certain he's SNP

No I am not a direct member of any politcal party.  I am an affliated member of The Labour party.
I am always, firstly, interested in candidates, then secondly party manifestos.
I however have never, and never ever will, vote for a Tory candidate.

[mtread]

Or UKIP or Brexit Party or any of those other nasties (spellcheck).
To be honest, no point voting Labour where I live. Not with the Little Corporal as our MP.

[Grahamm]

However when you were adding up the various parties EU Parliament election votes into Remain V Leave totals the other day, you'd put every single Green voter into 'Remain'

And when we were told that, in the 2017 election, some number of people "voted for parties which supported Brexit in their manifestos, so..." 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

What gets me is that you and your little red book waving mate think that all brexit supporters are also Conservative supporters, you constantly attack the conservatives - you will garner no argument from me with that tact. Yet you will constantly defend labours record which is far from perfect either.

I wonder if I am the “little red book waving mate”


I remember the New Labour period well.  I stopped my political levy during that period as a result of New Labour.  I made it clear to my union brothers and sistersl, as well as friends and associates that I viewed Tony Blair and New Labour in the same manner I viewed The Tories, as enemies of our people and our country.  And in Scotland Labour is yet to recover from that betrayal. 



Thankfully New Labour is dead, and once again The Labour  Party can be seen as the party of the many not the few.


But on BREXIT, The Labour Party is a mess.  Mr Corbyn seems to want to have a think about things and discuss it in September at the party conference.  He better wake up, in Scotland The Labour Party is now on life support, and if Mr Corbyn doesn’t make some decisive decision soon and firmly oppose BREXIT, well The Labour Party right across the UK could end up in intensive care along with the Tory Party.


It is clear that the BREXIT dream is just that, a dream, a fantasy built on lies.  If we want to protect our jobs and our economy, if we want to protect our future and environment, if we want to be part of the modern world – we must cancel article 50.
 

[Hedgetrimmer]

I remember the New Labour period well.  I stopped my political levy during that period as a result of New Labour.  I made it clear to my union brothers and sistersl, as well as friends and associates that I viewed Tony Blair and New Labour in the same manner I viewed The Tories, as enemies of our people and our country.

I'm sure they were very impressed, too. Here, have a medal 

[agricola]

What gets me is that you and your little red book waving mate think that all brexit supporters are also Conservative supporters, you constantly attack the conservatives - you will garner no argument from me with that tact. Yet you will constantly defend labours record which is far from perfect either.

I wonder if I am the “little red book waving mate”


I remember the New Labour period well.  I stopped my political levy during that period as a result of New Labour.  I made it clear to my union brothers and sistersl, as well as friends and associates that I viewed Tony Blair and New Labour in the same manner I viewed The Tories, as enemies of our people and our country.  And in Scotland Labour is yet to recover from that betrayal. 



Thankfully New Labour is dead, and once again The Labour  Party can be seen as the party of the many not the few.


But on BREXIT, The Labour Party is a mess.  Mr Corbyn seems to want to have a think about things and discuss it in September at the party conference.  He better wake up, in Scotland The Labour Party is now on life support, and if Mr Corbyn doesn’t make some decisive decision soon and firmly oppose BREXIT, well The Labour Party right across the UK could end up in intensive care along with the Tory Party.


It is clear that the BREXIT dream is just that, a dream, a fantasy built on lies.  If we want to protect our jobs and our economy, if we want to protect our future and environment, if we want to be part of the modern world – we must cancel article 50.

New Labour is far from dead. Its core still sits in the House, waiting for the right moment to ditch Corbine. I amazed you, of all people, think it dead