EU in or out ?

[mtread]

[size=0px]The Swiss have now just withdrawn and abandoned their plans to join the EU.[/size]

Huh? I must have missed that. When did Switzerland ever plan to join the EU?


As for car exports, we won't have any to tax. The manufacturers (like BMW) will leave http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35712537

[fazersharp]

Huh? I must have missed that. When did Switzerland ever plan to join the EU?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3473932/Now-Swiss-withdraw-bid-join-EU-Nation-s-parliament-retracts-24-year-old-bid-member-amid-deepening-row-migration.html

As for car exports, we won't have any to tax. The manufacturers (like BMW) will leave http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35712537

Nowhere in that article does it say they will leave - what they do say is

BMW, highlighting what it sees as the risks

and

"significant benefit" the company derives from the free movement of people within the EU.

Show me where in that article it says that BMW will leave

[mtread]

1. It's in the Daily Mail so it doesn't count as news
2. A 24 year application? Seriously? I can assure you they may have thought about it 24 years ago, but they certainly have no current application to join.
3. Their fears on immigration are about Schengen (or which they are a member) not the EU (which they are not). We of course are not a member of the Schengen agreement.
4. BMW have not said they WILL leave. It's what's known as a heavy handed hint. I think 'Without that, it says, the employment base of the company could be affected.' translates as 'we will move your job somewhere else'

[fazersharp]

1. It's in the Daily Mail so it doesn't count as news

I will give you that one - but I did hear it yesterday on the BBC news - or was it sky

BMW have not said they WILL leave. It's what's known as a heavy handed hint. I think 'Without that, it says, the employment base of the company could be affected.' translates as 'we will move your job somewhere else'

Well thats part of the in/out  problem - too many people not talking straight, if they would leave why don't they come out and say it. None of these big business have said they will leave - they just talk in vague wishy-wahsy language, so that when they don't leave they wont loose face because they neveractually said they would.   
Anyway if they do leave that is only a small part of the story and maybe a price to pay for getting our sovereignty/ own laws and border control back  and don't forget we will be 55milion a day better off.
The banks threatened it and stayed, banks and business just don't like uncertainty and all they care about is paying the MD 10million a year, they care not for what the rest of the out implications will be for the rest of us, only what it means in their own trouser pocket.

[BBROWN1664]

If the UK pulled out of the EU we would save the billions of pounds we currently pay in.
With this money we could pay the farmers and whoever the £3.50 that the EU pays them, have more doctors, nurses, policemen and soldiers and still have some change left over to reduce personal and corporate taxation to compensate for the EU import duties that we will have to pay.

In addition, and this will hit individuals harder, if the UK pulls out, we wont be able to go to France or Belgium and fill the cars up with cheap booze and fags.

[lew600fazer]

I think if the UK vote to leave the EU , the first thing we should do is offer massive tax breaks for EU industries to set up shop here in the UK and allow key workers to come across in training rolls.

[alan09]

Love or Hate Nigel Farage if Cameron had his balls maybe we wouldn't need a referendum.
https://www.facebook.com/IrelandFirst2015/videos/666686300137865/

[mtread]

to compensate for the EU import duties we will have to pay.

Um that's not right. If we leave the EU it's up to us what import duties we charge for imports into the UK. That's not the problem. The problem is what import duties the EU would charge for exports from the UK to the EU. They might make our exports uncompetitive, together with the absence of free trade and the possibility of restrictions. That's what the EU is, and the EU is our biggest export market. If companies currently in the UK want to supply the EU, they may well choose to move from the UK to another EU member state in order to maintain the absence of import duties and continue to enjoy unrestricted movement of goods.


I'm surprised at the general lack of understanding of what would change if we left.

[lew600fazer]

Not my favourite person but cannot see a lot wrong here in what he is saying

[lew600fazer]

and still have some change left over to reduce personal and corporate taxation to compensate for the EU import duties that we will have to pay.

Um that's not right. If we leave the EU it's up to us what import duties we charge for imports into the UK. That's not the problem. The problem is what import duties the EU would charge for exports from the UK to the EU. They might make our exports uncompetitive, together with the absence of free trade and the possibility of restrictions. That's what the EU is, and the EU is our biggest export market. If companies currently in the UK want to supply the EU, they may well choose to move from the UK to another EU member state in order to maintain the absence of import duties and continue to enjoy unrestricted movement of goods.


I'm surprised at the lack of general lack of understanding of what would change if we left.

Think you need to re-write your last sentence again, to this.

I'm surprised at the lack of general understanding of what COULD change if we left.
I do not know what will happen and neither do you. You are surmising what may happen.
The threats are coming thick and fast now from the power makers in Brussels and some businesses BMW to name one. Why are the EU so concerned about the UK exit. I reckon it is because if we go the whole thing will come down like a pack of cards. The Germans and the French will do everything they can to try and hold it together. They may threaten tariffs on UK goods being brought into the EU. So what are they going to do if say Holland decide to exit, Denmark decide to exit, Austria(they will not take refugees now)Finland decide to exit, Sweden decide to exit.
Merkel has caused this and her stupidity over the refugee crisis has as good as split the EU asunder. The rise of the Front National in France , UKIP, Right wing movement in Austria and even inside Germany now, the vote in Britain will not be really about the EU, it is about the UK & EU being swamped by refugees and spongers.

[fazersharp]

to compensate for the EU import duties we will have to pay.

Um that's not right. If we leave the EU it's up to us what import duties we charge for imports into the UK. That's not the problem. The problem is what import duties the EU would charge for exports from the UK to the EU.

Yes if they impose high import duties then we will just match it with our own for them - its a non argument.

the EU is our biggest export market.

Biggest single - may be, but not the biggest in total - you are forgetting the rest of the world.
And don't forget that we are also their biggest export market.

Cameron is not only is fighting to stay in the EU but fighting for his job, there is no way he can stay on as PM after an out vote, and then to preside over a smooth quick transition when he has said it will take 10 years and the sky will fall in.
 

[DILLIGAFF]

Perhaps it is an indication of the British apathy that this thread has been read 2460 times but only 58 have voted ?

[markie_wales]

I am openly "in", but if the vote is close I honestly believe there will be hypocrisy:

A small vote to stay in - we stay in, end of discussion.
A small vote to leave - "it's too important a decision to leave with such a small majority, we'll go back to the EU and ask for an extra (fill in meaningless concession here, but I'll say "a free biscuit for everyone") and have another vote"

I want to stay in because it's best for me personally, my dad's small business and my daughter who wants to work in various EU countries after Uni, but I don't like the political system (regardless of EU membership).

Cheers

Markie

[fazersharp]

Perhaps it is an indication of the British apathy that this thread has been read 2460 times but only 58 have voted ?

Is it because only members can vote but anyone can read, perhaps the MPs are reading it and using it as a true reflection of the wider society to then gauge their policy's.
So im thinking all beer to be free, all fuel for bikes to be free no bike tax or insurance needed and any bike involved in an accident is deemed the innocent party and the other party to pay all costs ------- even if that other party is a hedge !     

[fazersharp]

I am openly "in", but if the vote is close I honestly believe there will be hypocrisy:

A small vote to stay in - we stay in, end of discussion.
A small vote to leave - "it's too important a decision to leave with such a small majority, we'll go back to the EU and ask for an extra (fill in meaningless concession here, but I'll say "a free biscuit for everyone") and have another vote"

I want to stay in because it's best for me personally, my dad's small business and my daughter who wants to work in various EU countries after Uni, but I don't like the political system (regardless of EU membership).

Cheers

Markie

I fully agree with your first two parts (maybe two bickies ) and said so earlier but its the last bit that I think is a problem because too many people are just thinking for themselves and not the wider picture, ok fair enough but its a case of only looking out for themselves right now and not looking further ahead at the wider picture.

[markie_wales]

I fully agree with your first two parts (maybe two bickies ) and said so earlier but its the last bit that I think is a problem because too many people are just thinking for themselves and not the wider picture, ok fair enough but its a case of only looking out for themselves right now and not looking further ahead at the wider picture.

I know what you mean. However if we all vote for (generally) personal interest, doesn't that mean (generally) it's best for the people of the country?

Cheers

Markie

[fazersharp]

Good point

[mtread]

Think you need to re-write your last sentence again, to this.

Not at all. Things will change. What to we don't know, and that is the weakness of the 'Out' campaign's argument.

[BBROWN1664]

MT = What I actually meant was the increased cost to businesses to import into the EU (Export from here) because of increase duties.

[mtread]

Ah get it now. Except of course the UK producer wouldn't pay the import duty. The EU customer would. We would need to lower our prices to compensate

[Phil]

Perhaps it is an indication of the British apathy that this thread has been read 2460 times but only 58 have voted ?

Voting closed: 27 February 2016, 11:43:33 AM

The thread is still open for reading and posting on.   The thread view count isn't the number of unique viewers.

[slappy]

Just been on scoobynet forum, their vote for out of EU is running st about  65% .

[dazza]

I think we should have another vote or re-open the voting as after doing a bit of research I for one have changed my vote from out to fucking definitely out

[fazersharp]

fucking definitely out

Wouldn't it be good if that was actually an option on the ballot paper

[david095]

Perhaps it is an indication of the British apathy that this thread has been read 2460 times but only 58 have voted ?

just bringing it back to the forefront - perhaps the most important vote we'll have for our childrens future?