Date: 28-03-24  Time: 10:56 am

Author Topic: Help what happens now  (Read 3243 times)

Stormbringer

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Help what happens now
« on: 16 February 2020, 02:15:27 pm »
I went to pick my bike up after the accident repairs yesterday.
They had just returned from the road test .
More bad news there is a loud knocking from the left side of the engine low down .
There was no knocking before the accident and no external damage to the engine .
So what happens now as the other drivers insurance company had agreed repairs and they where on the limit of it being a writeoff.
« Last Edit: 16 February 2020, 02:35:29 pm by Stormbringer »
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Stormbringer

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #1 on: 16 February 2020, 02:21:57 pm »
They had agreed repairs of £2750 to which a new chain was added latter .
The bike had had new tyres ,Chain Sprockets ,brakes a sevice  etc.a few days before the accident at the Yamaha dealers which Cost over £1000 a few days before the accident .


I have also paid the Yamaha dealer another £470 this week for some additional work while the repairs where done .
If the insurance company refused any more repairs and pays Yamaha for the estimate work I will have my bike back having spent £1800 on it plus accessories.
But it may need a new engine .



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Stormbringer

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #2 on: 16 February 2020, 02:28:25 pm »
The other Drivers insurance company Hastings Directed gave my a loan bike which I had collected on Thursday as I thought mine we be back .
They had already paid for my helmet but have refused to pay for my jacket ,jeans ,boots and gloves until I send them to them at my cost recorded delivery.
I explained I need them in order to ride the loan bike .
So I  am now waiting for Yamaha to investigate the knock from the engine .
If Hastings refuse to pay for the investigation and only pay what was on the estimate I could end up with my bike back needing a new engine .
Or can they decided to write it off and if they do who pays the repair bill?
« Last Edit: 16 February 2020, 02:36:48 pm by Stormbringer »
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Stormbringer

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #3 on: 16 February 2020, 02:34:40 pm »
Another point is the Market value of my bike if they write it off .
Now with all the new parts its in mint condition other than the knock .
I paid £3500 for it 2 months ago .
I have since spent in the region of £2300 on it ,then there is the £2750 insurance spent on it .
It looks like a new bike so does this increase the market value .
I've looked at similar Blue FZ8 Fazers  for as much as £4750 .
« Last Edit: 16 February 2020, 02:37:39 pm by Stormbringer »
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #4 on: 16 February 2020, 04:50:43 pm »
Wait till you get the report from Yamaha regarding the knock. Make sure it states damge/cause/repairs reqd/cost. Also get the loan bike bike. Use the Insurance ombudsman if your not happy. The report needs to state clearly that the knock is a result of the accident.

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #5 on: 16 February 2020, 05:26:24 pm »
I can't help you with the rest, but if there's a loud metallic bang-bang-bang when you turn the engine over it might be a broken big end as that's what it sounded like when my FZ6's engine died :(

Stormbringer

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #6 on: 16 February 2020, 05:35:27 pm »
Thanks .
I will ask for the loan bike back.
The knock is only appears once moving.
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #7 on: 16 February 2020, 05:53:15 pm »
I really hope you get a result here as things seem to be going tits up. :(
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #8 on: 16 February 2020, 06:26:13 pm »
If its only once moving, then its wheel/brake/chain related. Not engine.
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #9 on: 17 February 2020, 12:05:36 am »
Indeed. You said earlier it had new chain and sprockets. If it's bottom/left side of engine, someone has cocked up putting it together.
Did they actually put the engine sprocket on properly? Have they put the cover on properly?
Might be a simple fix

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #10 on: 17 February 2020, 07:15:46 am »



Andrew Dalton wrote a very good piece (as are all his articles) in Bike magazine warning about potential perils of accepting a loan bike from an insurance company. He gave an example (if i recall) where a non-fault victim accepted a loan bike with a verbal reassurance that he would not have to pay, signed the paperwork without reading it and was then hit with a bill for over a oner a day for keeping it, (30k in total or something silly?) so caution required.


We all know that we don't / won't usually get back the large sums of money spent on bikes getting them up together, these bills are not reflected in the subsequent market value. The sad reality is a financial hit one way or another following any accident, fault or not.


I feel for you and hope that it ends soon and without too much more loss, worry and inconvenience.
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #11 on: 17 February 2020, 09:28:16 am »
Indeed. You said earlier it had new chain and sprockets. If it's bottom/left side of engine, someone has cocked up putting it together.
Did they actually put the engine sprocket on properly? Have they put the cover on properly?
Might be a simple fix


 :agree



Oh yes, here is your issue very, very common issue with Fazers.  Even if the chain is adjusted too tightly they knock slightly, if the stealer has buggered up the rivet link (again very common) it will do the same as the chain being too to tight.  Also check the rear is aligned correctly, another big area for mistakes.


Check the chain and the link, while the bikes on the centre stand, a correctly fitted and adjusted new chain/sprockets it should be almost silent.  If you can hear or feel a rumble/knock even a very slight one, it's either, got out of line rear sprocket adjustment and/or the front hasn't been changed (another big stealer con trick) or fitted correctly, even loose I kid you not.  Find the joining link, move it to the centre of the free travel below the swingarm, the link should move freely either end and return back straight.  If it remains kinked even slightly it's too tight and must be replaced.  To check the rear sprocket alignment, measure from the centre of the rear axle to the end of the swingarm, where the aluminium joins the cast rear adjuster.  It should be within 1mm, better spot on.   


Providing the bike was fine going in, it will be something the stealer has or has not done correctly, your bike is not scrap.  If you find the chain is the issue, change your stealer and let others know who they're so they too can avoid them.


Good luck, let us know how you get on.         
« Last Edit: 17 February 2020, 09:35:02 am by Gnasher »
Later

YamFazFan

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #12 on: 17 February 2020, 10:47:53 am »

Gnasher, why does a chain that's too tight make the first to second gear change clunky?.


I thought all Fazer 600's were like that until someone said it's caused by insufficient chain slack. Just never understood why it has that effect :\

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #13 on: 17 February 2020, 11:13:04 am »
Find the joining link, move it to the centre of the free travel below the swingarm, the link should move freely either end and return back straight.  If it remains kinked even slightly it's too tight and must be replaced.  To check the rear sprocket alignment, measure from the centre of the rear axle to the end of the swingarm, where the aluminium joins the cast rear adjuster.  It should be within 1mm, better spot on.   
I recently changed my chain and sprockets, the sprockets and alignment were fine but the chain did hsve some tight spots and one in particular was tighter than the rest and it was that one that was causing the knocking sound which I could even feel through the left peg. Once I have changed everything it was silky smooth again. Do as gnasher says and check that link.

 It sounds very much that the rivet link has been overtightened.Could a dealer get it so wrong and then also not realise the issue on hearing it. If they have over tightened the link then its also likely that the sprockets are out of alignment too.If there was no damage to the engine in the accident how could the engine internals be damaged.       
« Last Edit: 17 February 2020, 11:14:09 am by fazersharp »
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Gnasher

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #14 on: 17 February 2020, 11:46:24 am »

Gnasher, why does a chain that's too tight make the first to second gear change clunky?.


I thought all Fazer 600's were like that until someone said it's caused by insufficient chain slack. Just never understood why it has that effect :\


It will happen in all gears, but as it speeds up the noise and the vibration are lost as they are happening so fast and drowned out by other vibs and road noise etc.
Later

Gnasher

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #15 on: 17 February 2020, 12:39:07 pm »
I recently changed my chain and sprockets, the sprockets and alignment were fine but the chain did hsve some tight spots and one in particular was tighter than the rest and it was that one that was causing the knocking sound which I could even feel through the left peg. Once I have changed everything it was silky smooth again.

Any tight spot on a new chain would indicate either the chain is a cheap Chinese rip off, big problem some years back ever stealers and importers were getting caught.  But some cheap online types will still sell them as genuine, so beware.  Or it's been fitted incorrectly, normally issue with the link and/or the sprockets, mostly the front hasn't been changed.  Why the front, many owners don't take the cover off to check.   


Could a dealer get it so wrong and then also not realise the issue on hearing it. If they have over tightened the link then its also likely that the sprockets are out of alignment too.


Yes they can and do very regularly, many so called bike mechanics aren't, many have had little or no formal training so called apprenticeships .  Many are paid very poorly, so the positions don't attract quality people and it's all about workshop through put i.e. money above all else.  Another neat trick is to loosen off a badly fitted chain by setting the chain slack at the top end of tolerance it will get rid of most of the noise if not all of it. But the chain will have reduced life, right from the off.  (quality chain and sprockets correctly fitted and oiled/adjusted should last 20- 30k) This will depend on how over tight the link is/was the chain slack doesn't always work.  Worse cases I've had bikes in where you can see the stealer has, used a link breaker on it enough to free it off.  Doing this stops the noise, but will cut the chain life depending on how much they've loosened it to a matter a a few 1000k, they then claim you haven't oiled it.


New chain and sprockets, no tight spots at all, no noise or vibration, if you've got any it's not fitted correctly end of.         
Later

Stormbringer

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #16 on: 17 February 2020, 01:00:52 pm »
Thanks for the info guys .
The new chain and sprockets fitted by Yamaha 3 days  before the accident where Yamaha parts .
On the ride down to Guilford there was no knocking .
The bike could not be ridden after the accident until the repairs had been done .
The knocking was evident as soon as the bike was ridden.
They had fitted another new chain while doing the accident repairs as the chain was bent in the accident .
They are inspecting the bike today to see what is causing the knock .
Let's hope its a chain/sprocket issue .
John
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #17 on: 17 February 2020, 06:55:11 pm »
If the impact was sufficient to bend a brand new chain I would assume the swing arm and bent and would consider the frame suspect too. Was the swing arm checked/replaced and has the frame alignment been checked?
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Stormbringer

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #18 on: 17 February 2020, 10:56:40 pm »
The swinging arm moved forward and spread the rear of the frame .
The frame has been jigged and the swinging arm checked .
They are now doing further checks.
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #19 on: 18 February 2020, 10:41:49 am »
You say you had new tyres fitted just before the accident and the force of the accident pushed the swing arm forward. If the force of the impact caused that then the rear tyre needs replacing as well.
When I was rammed off my MT09 the insurance assessor put down that both tyres would need replacing as the bike had suffered a major side impact and then slid until it hit the high kerb on the roundabout, his reasoning being that there was no way of knowing what possible internal carcass damage there could be.

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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #20 on: 18 February 2020, 11:15:58 am »
They had fitted another new chain while doing the accident repairs as the chain was bent in the accident .
Cant imagine how you would bend a chain but as they fitted a new one it still sounds to me like and over tightened rivet link.
 What' more worrying is if they have fitted it too tight - what else have they done wrong and if it is just an over tightened rivet link why has no one at the dealer realised it and slapped the fitter around the head and redone it BEFORE telling you about it - they should of spotted it and sorted it before - no need to tell you anything.       
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #21 on: 18 February 2020, 02:30:25 pm »
You're not insinuating there are some honest dealers out there surely? ;)
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #22 on: 18 February 2020, 07:16:44 pm »
There's an article in the current Ride magazine, about "free" loan bikes. Gets pretty scary as they're actually hired out at rip off rates.
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #23 on: 28 February 2020, 03:16:18 pm »
Update .
The insurers valued the bike at £3600.
The actual cost of replacing my bike from a Yamaha dealers with the same bike in the same condition and similar mileage would be around £4250 to £4900.
The knock is from second gear which has lost a tooth and spilt from where the tooth is missing to the centre.
This was discovered by removing the clutch and using a camera.
This was probably caused by the car stopping the back wheel turning as I was in second gear when the car hit me from behind.
The cost to rebuild the gear box is estimated at £2000 .
This added to the cost of repairs so far is £4200.
The insurance company original offered a maximum of £2900 for repairs .
However after much negotiation they have increases the repair offer to £3500 .
I will have to pay the difference but will have a usable bike at the end of this .
So all being well I should have my bike back in about 4 weeks time .

Also it will have 2 new  Michelin Road 5 tyres. _________________
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Re: Help what happens now
« Reply #24 on: 28 February 2020, 05:47:28 pm »
Update .
The insurers valued the bike at £3600.
The actual cost of replacing my bike from a Yamaha dealers with the same bike in the same condition and similar mileage would be around £4250 to £4900.
The knock is from second gear which has lost a tooth and spilt from where the tooth is missing to the centre.
This was discovered by removing the clutch and using a camera.
This was probably caused by the car stopping the back wheel turning as I was in second gear when the car hit me from behind.
The cost to rebuild the gear box is estimated at £2000 .
This added to the cost of repairs so far is £4200.
The insurance company original offered a maximum of £2900 for repairs .
However after much negotiation they have increases the repair offer to £3500 .
I will have to pay the difference but will have a usable bike at the end of this .
So all being well I should have my bike back in about 4 weeks time .

Also it will have 2 new  Michelin Road 5 tyres. _________________


If ive got this right, you have got to pay £700 to get your bike repaired and back to you, for a no fault claim.
Insurance value is £3,600
The bike was hit hard enough to shatter a gear, spread the frame, move the swing arm forward etc.


No offence, but Id be thinking of taking the insurers £3,600 and putting the £700 into a bike thats not been written off
Best of luck whatever you decide