Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial

Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: GhostCat on 23 March 2017, 05:40:47 pm

Title: Header refurb questions
Post by: GhostCat on 23 March 2017, 05:40:47 pm
Hi
still got the original headers on my 2000 Fazer, I have got some exhaust paint and I've started plus gassing the nuts. Just wondering whether I should get new gaskets, and if so what type, copper or fibre ? Also could I replace the nuts with stainless, and if so where would I get the correct spec nuts. M6 stainless.. flanged ?  Connector nuts ?


tia Ghostcat
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: daviee on 23 March 2017, 06:24:01 pm
paint it on the bike you will more than likely  snap at least one stud cause more heart ache
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: Bretty on 23 March 2017, 06:27:21 pm
That's good advice!
a snapped stud is a massive ball ache. But to answer your question. I've used and reused a few gaskets and prefer the fibre gaskets as they always seem to seal better with less torque. Also I use the standard Yamaha nuts on my studs, and give them a good painting with copper compound every couple of months.
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: GhostCat on 23 March 2017, 09:01:36 pm
Thanks for the tips chaps, but the collector part is looking pretty ropy and I am looking to fit stainless headers when funds allow, so I need to sort out the nuts/studs anyway. Thing about the Yamaha nuts is, they are rusty as hell so they must be made out of recycled Austin Allegroes




Ghostcat
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: Bretty on 23 March 2017, 10:52:31 pm
If you're buying new nuts anyway, consider getting a nut splitter, or dremel to remove the old nuts. And/or a blowtorch. It's always a laugh snapping off a stud. 
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: fazersharp on 23 March 2017, 11:01:54 pm
Dont be in any rush and keep soaking those nuts, I used a syringe to get right in there
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: tommyardin on 24 March 2017, 12:32:07 am
Thanks for the tips chaps, but the collector part is looking pretty ropy and I am looking to fit stainless headers when funds allow, so I need to sort out the nuts/studs anyway. Thing about the Yamaha nuts is, they are rusty as hell so they must be made out of recycled Austin All Aggro




Ghostcat


Ahh! The Austin All Aggro, what a piece of shit. I had one many years ago but to be honest it was not the only time that British Leyland painted a turd, there was the Morris Marina as well. it was about that time when British Leyland and MotherCare joined force and produced the Marina, the only car with a built in rattle.
How the f--k did they get away with it? 90 to 100K out of an 1800cc engine if you were very lucky, they used to burn oil as a fast rate of knots, what they did not burn they leaked out.
Is it any wonder that they went out of production with the likes of Honda producing the Accord and Toyota producing cars like the Corona and Corolla. Sadly the British bike market went the same way and to be honest (IMO) it was no wonder the Honda 250 Dream was faster than most British 500's a lot more reliable handled better and did not thrown 1/2 pint of oil up you shin every 50 miles. RIP British Leyland (You Bastards) :eek
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: Panthor on 24 March 2017, 12:15:45 pm
I refurbed mine a while ago and didn't have any issues getting them off after 2 weeks of daily spraying with wd40, although mine doesn't get used in the wet. Also I reused the gaskets and didn't have any issues.
They lasted 2 more years but now I have stainless and new gaskets.
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: Zark on 24 March 2017, 09:30:12 pm
Dont be in any rush and keep soaking those nuts, I used a syringe to get right in there

^^This... I did kitchen roll soaked in plusgas wrapped around the studs for a week... Came off no drama...
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: fazersharp on 24 March 2017, 10:45:05 pm
With a syringe you can get right at the back of the header bracket flange and squirt it down the bolt hole from the back towards the nut, every time it did this I did it after a ride so it was dry and I could see it seep through to the flange on the nut so I knew it was getting in there and not just wetting the surface.

I was in no rush but am getting nearer to needing new pipes so did not want the nightmare of snapped studs on top of everything else, they came of and I put back on with copper grease.   
BUT REMEMBER -- dry miles only for me for the last 17 years 
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: LozGreen on 28 March 2017, 02:07:18 pm
Having recently removed studs from 2 head cylinders - lots of plus gas, and when they don't shift. Lots of heat..

Saw a tip on one forum - if you don't have a blowtorch - get a kitchen one.. £16 from Amazon and got the gas from a local Cookshop for £3 a tin. Then light up any offending studs for a minute or 2 , and voila the buggers come off with ease. Then afterwards the missus has a new toy for the kitchen :D



Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: Disorderlypunk on 28 March 2017, 02:38:08 pm
unless absolutly needed do not remove exhaust, i was badly blowing past gasket so time to replace them
ooh stuck studs time for plus gas, time and muscles - ooh crap broken studs

i now have the head off (took about 5 hours with cups of coffee)
it is a ball ache to get the carbs out, head is now being sent to a better engineer than me to be drilled out
but bought pod filters and jets to make carb instalation easier, no more airbox wedging
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: Paul on 29 March 2017, 06:57:45 am
I've got stainless steel headers and take them off once a year to clean the exhaust system.


I've never replaced the exhaust gaskets.
I just give them a coat of silicone (the stuff window fitters use) before re-fitting the headers.
It's always seemed to seal them.



Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: GhostCat on 29 March 2017, 04:53:34 pm
Well the inevitable happened. After 6 days of religious and thorough plus gassing I took the plunge and snapped a stud on the second from left cylinder - the top stud. Its snapped off flush with the nut so praying that some purchase can be got on the stud. its an awkward spot but i got a socket spanner on it.  I stopped trying there ! hope you dont think i was ignoring your advice but i would rather sort it out now then when an mot is looming  i have alternative transport at least. booked into my local mechanics next week


Ghostcat
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: fazersharp on 29 March 2017, 05:12:03 pm
maybe 6 days were not enough i soaked mine for about 6 weeks
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: Disorderlypunk on 29 March 2017, 11:40:26 pm
refitting fzs600 thread has this in but will add in here for future
apparently ATF and Acetone 50/50 works great
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CESDxCloCoQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CESDxCloCoQ)
if anyone trys it before me then please post here and let the world know
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: GhostCat on 06 April 2017, 07:03:30 pm
My local mechanic got the stud out. He said "lots of heat". Cost me an hours labour.
Let the refurb begin !
Next question - is draining the coolant a pain as I need to refurb a couple of the coolant pipes


Ghostcat
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: daviee on 06 April 2017, 07:56:09 pm
refitting fzs600 thread has this in but will add in here for future
apparently ATF and Acetone 50/50 works great
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CESDxCloCoQ[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CESDxCloCoQ[/url])
if anyone trys it before me then please post here and let the world know



i have herd plenty of good things about this but yet to try it but will give it a test soon

Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: joebloggs on 06 April 2017, 08:11:17 pm
I say plan for a few studs to shear, drop the engine and  replace all the studs with stainless steel. Foc me , the studs have been seizing up for 15 years +, get over it.
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: vinnyb on 22 April 2017, 12:29:38 pm
 In a reckless fit of curiosity, I decided this morning to see if my header nuts would come off without snapping any studs. I thought I'd just go at it really gently and if they  don't move I'd leave them for the moment and worry about them when I need to but if they do I'd remove them one at a time, fill them with CoppaSlip and replace them. Well I'm thrilled, overjoyed, ecstatic, pretty relieved to report that they all came off with no problems at all. :thumbup :woot
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: fazersharp on 22 April 2017, 02:44:48 pm
In a reckless fit of curiosity, I decided this morning to see if my header nuts would come off without snapping any studs. I thought I'd just go at it really gently and if they  don't move I'd leave them for the moment and worry about them when I need to but if they do I'd remove them one at a time, fill them with CoppaSlip and replace them. Well I'm thrilled, overjoyed, ecstatic, pretty relieved to report that they all came off with no problems at all. :thumbup :woot
:thumbup I was the same even though I had soaked them for weeks and I didnt need to do them it was like a button that says Do Not Press I couldn't help myself. All was good for me too. (no rain miles )
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: vinnyb on 22 April 2017, 03:24:03 pm

Mine's only done 9,000 miles and looks like it hasn't been out in too much bad weather (even though the front of the barrels and one or two other areas look like they have) I think the thing to do is just take them off an reapply CoppaSlip regularly to prevent future problems. 
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: GhostCat on 25 April 2017, 06:54:54 pm
A word of warning, if you are going to use that acid etch primer, it requires that every last scrap of black paint is removed, which is really an engine out job. Mine looks a bit like a dogs dinner now.  :'( all the other bits are done, water pipes, headers, snapped the bottom radiator bolt off trying to remove the rad, so back to the shop for drilling ! And waiting on the correct exhaust stud to arrive, they sent an M10 !


GC
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: vinnyb on 25 April 2017, 10:26:42 pm

 Why? What happens if you spray over the old paint? There's no way the engine's coming out. I was planning to just remove the flaky, loose stuff and deoxidize the bare metal with alubright, etch prime just the areas that need it, then respray with PJ1 satin black. I've got a lot of masking to do before I start spraying. I was wondering if I could use standard gloss black paint on my radiator or if it would be unable to tolerate the heat. I can't decide whether to get the exhaust ceramic coated. It's pricey but no more than a stainless system. I'll probably just respray it for now, dunno yet.
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: Disorderlypunk on 25 April 2017, 10:54:26 pm
if you use the bike a lot like me just wire brush what you can get to on the frame and wait for a engine out catastrophy before you repaint the engine
-ive used hammerite smooth on the frame and on a few of the scratched casings that are a bit cooler then engine block
- she can wait till the full rebuild for her makeover
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: GhostCat on 25 April 2017, 11:33:33 pm

 Why? What happens if you spray over the old paint?
If you spray that primer on old paint, it dissolves and puckers up off the metal. Try it yourself on a small area. I would be inclined to just do your deoxidising and spray the PJ1 - its designed to be used without primer.
I hope I wont need the engine out any time soon... happy to live with it at the moment.


GC
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: Jules-C on 26 April 2017, 04:33:09 pm

 I was wondering if I could use standard gloss black paint on my radiator or if it would be unable to tolerate the heat.


The radiator never gets much hotter than a house heating radiator so an ordinary gloss should be ok. But you should be using matt to maximise the efficiency of the radiator but in practice it doesn't make much diference
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: vinnyb on 28 April 2017, 11:20:57 pm
Thanks to everyone for the replies, I only do 2 to 3,000 mile a year and do winter at all anymore. I like my bike to be as immaculate as possible and the Fazer's pretty good generally with just a few bits letting it down. The front of the engine, the radiator and the exhaust are the main issues so I want to sort them first but I'm not dropping the engine out, so if the etch primer is going to cause me problems I'll not use it, thanks for the head up Ghost Cat. The deoxidiser is phosphoric acid based so that may give the PJ1 a pretty good key anyway. I've used Sperex Flameproof VHT with good results in the past so I'll use that on the pipes. If standard rattle can paint will cope with the temperatures the radiator reaches I'll take advantage of the 4 for 3 offer on Halfords paints and get gloss for the radiator and the centre and side stand and some satin for the wheels. Hopefully that'll be about it but your never really finished are you? I bought a Fazer just to ride and not worry too much about it's condition, though my wife and a couple of my mates (and my tame mechanic) told me it would become a project, but that's half the fun isn't it? I don't mind how much time I spend on it, I just don't want it to cost a fortune.
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: yemisiblake on 30 April 2017, 06:49:55 am
Let us know how you get on. With pictures please!
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: vinnyb on 30 April 2017, 10:57:28 am

 I won't be starting it for a little while but I will post a couple of pics soon cos I haven't posted any yet.
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: vinnyb on 30 April 2017, 04:15:14 pm
Trying to download a couple of pics but it won't let me. Don't know what I'm doing wrong :'(
Title: Re: Header refurb questions
Post by: midden on 08 May 2017, 01:01:24 pm
Playing with my nuts at the moment  ;)   and notice they also can be undone using allen key.
With the engine running to warm the studs  iI sprayed wd40 in to said holes  and it appears capillary action comes in to play.  I could be wrong but then I could be right, give it a try