EU in or out ?

[esetest]

The reason the big companies want us to stay in , is the cheap pool of labour that is readily available . If the establishment want us to stay in , that's a good enough reason for me to want out .

[mtread]

Not scaremongering at all, because you see I actually heard the BBC Radio 4 interview with the CEO of Aston Martin where he gave the reasons why Wales was chosen over 27 other locations, including that it is located in  the EU and will receive EU subsidies. . Facts rather than the negative immigration based scaremongering of the other side.

[fazersharp]

why Wales was chosen over 27 other locations, including that it is located in  the EU and will receive EU subsidies.

That's another another one that keeps being banded about "subsidies", businesses - farmers, its not EU subsidies money its OUR MONEY that we pay to the EU --55 million  a day ! just being sent back to us after its filtered through Brussels for all the Eurocrats to put their hands in it to pay their massive pay packets.   

[Hedgetrimmer]

It's all very well talking about trade and economic clout in the EU. If that were all it was about, I'd be for staying. But more and more we surrender our sovereignty, our ability to make our own rules and decisions as a nation state with all that this means. This I don't want.

[esetest]

A superstate which is where the EU is heading ,  Will benefit the bureaucrats  , and the rich and powerful , when Labour signed the Lisbon treaty , we were sold it on their lie that workers would have better protection , instead we have zero hour contracts and less stability , and the wealth gap is growing , Why should British working people surrender the pay and conditions  they have have fought for , . I don't have a problem with immigration  as long as it is controlled , we are a small island with limited resources .

[celticdog]

it's a strange old world when Galloway and Farage agree on something!

[fazersharp]

I am all for immigration its a fantastic thing, we need doctors - professionals- etc. What we don't need are the un skilled who are out of work in their own countries. Its our country and we should be the ones who decide who is allowed in.     

[unfazed]

Honda, Toyota, BAE etc etc and now Aston Martin - all will leave.

Aston Martin you say
 BBC News -- exactly the same time you were typing that

Aston Martin is to build its new luxury car in south Wales, creating 750 highly-skilled jobs.
The DBX car will be hand-made in a super hangar at St Athan in the Vale of Glamorgan.
It is a major coup for Wales to secure the deal ahead of 20 locations across the world.

Aston Martin are boxing very clever and are looking to the future because they know, that the UK will vote out of the EU, then Scotland will get pissed off being ignored and their infrastructure fall apart and vote independence. Scotland will then be allowed back in to the EU, then Wales will follow suit.
NI with then go the same route and the UK will be no more. Simple

[fazersharp]

Honda, Toyota, BAE etc etc and now Aston Martin - all will leave.

Aston Martin you say
 BBC News -- exactly the same time you were typing that

Aston Martin is to build its new luxury car in south Wales, creating 750 highly-skilled jobs.
The DBX car will be hand-made in a super hangar at St Athan in the Vale of Glamorgan.
It is a major coup for Wales to secure the deal ahead of 20 locations across the world.

Aston Martin are boxing very clever and are looking to the future because they know, that the UK will vote out of the EU, then Scotland will get pissed off being ignored and their infrastructure fall apart and vote independence. Scotland will then be allowed back in to the EU, then Wales will follow suit.
NI with then go the same route and the UK will be no more. Simple

I think the EU would of fallen apart before all that. 

[unfazed]

Honda, Toyota, BAE etc etc and now Aston Martin - all will leave.

Aston Martin you say
 BBC News -- exactly the same time you were typing that

Aston Martin is to build its new luxury car in south Wales, creating 750 highly-skilled jobs.
The DBX car will be hand-made in a super hangar at St Athan in the Vale of Glamorgan.
It is a major coup for Wales to secure the deal ahead of 20 locations across the world.

Aston Martin are boxing very clever and are looking to the future because they know, that the UK will vote out of the EU, then Scotland will get pissed off being ignored and their infrastructure fall apart and vote independence. Scotland will then be allowed back in to the EU, then Wales will follow suit.
NI with then go the same route and the UK will be no more. Simple

I think the EU would of fallen apart before all that.

Remember Hell froze over a 2 years ago http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-25648513 

[mtread]

Aston Martin are boxing very clever and are looking to the future because they know, that the UK will vote out of the EU, then Scotland will get pissed off being ignored and their infrastructure fall apart and vote independence. Scotland will then be allowed back in to the EU, then Wales will follow suit.

I doubt it very much. Wales doesn't have a separate government. It only has an assembly with very limited powers. It's the United Kingdom that's part of the EU, and unlike Scotland, Wales cannot vote to separate from the UK in it's current form.
Anyway, who says the UK is going to leave ? Plenty of water to pass under the bridge before 23rd June 

[fazersharp]

Can we force Wales to leave 

[nickodemon]

I dont agree with any of it

outside of the EU as the independent Scotland signs up to continue it's membership.
No they wouldnt because they could never afford the subs on their own

outside of the EU as the independent Scotland signs up to continue it's membership.
No its not its because of the amount of people who voted for UKIP

And of course the EU is the single biggest open market in the world.
That one is always touted bypassing the fact that the rest of the world is the biggest joint in which we have to trade with EU agreements and being free of eu would mean that we can negotiate our own trades with the rest of the world freely and on better terms

being a member gives us full access, and full influence.
Oh yeh that has just been demonstrated hasn't it by cameron crawling on his hands and knees with a begging bowl only to be thrown a few scraps- such great influence.
The human rights act too, it would be a disaster if leaving the EU opened the door to scrapping it
Ok not sure on this one but weren't we the ones who came up with this in the first place

CE standards will still be set by the EU, if we leave we will have no say but will have to abide by them
The EU is not all bad and we can pick the bits we do like - nowt wrong with CE

If there is any threat to our access to the EU market many big companies will leave.
No they wont,-- hot air -- the letter just signed by only 36 of the fst 100 companies, HSBC were threatening to leave but backed out when we called there bluff

Point 1. Utter Rubbish (where exactly do you get the info that Scotland couldn't afford the subs on there own?)


Point 2. What has ukip got to do with Scotland in the EU? Ukip is an English party closely resembling the bnp,and most voters are in the south of England shitting themselves from all of the immigrants flooding across from France.


Point 3. How did you come to the assumption that we can agree better terms with the rest of the world?


Point 4. Even though i despise Cameron he has at least gone a very small way to protect us from having to be fully enclusive in being fully linked with the EU.


 

[Val]

Just found the reason why the UK should stay to win Eurovision with this song:

[fazersharp]

Thank you for pointing that out - i grabbed the wrong part - this is how it was supposed to read.

Firstly we are having a referendum because DC had to appease the right wing of his party coming up to the last general election.
No its not its because of the amount of people who voted for UKIP

[AMW]

Staying in will come with difficulties leaving would be a disaster with no way back.

Andrew   

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 No they wouldnt because they could never afford the subs on their own
Fazersharp, Scotland has one of the strongest economies in the world, never mind Europe.
No its not it's because of the amount of people who voted for UKIP
There was a blip during the Euro elections and David Coburn got elected for UKIP in Scotland.  It was unexpected and not repeated at the general election where UKIP where nowhere to be seen, and in any case UKIP as a political party have effectively almost ceased as a functioning political party in Scotland, though I believe they are trying to rebuild themselves. 
That EU election result also raises the question of the Scottish media in Scotland - or lack of it - but that's another slightly separate issue.
eu would mean that we can negotiate our own trades with the rest of the world freely and on better terms
It would actually mean we'd be small fish in a big sea.  The EU is an economic powerhouse in the world, while the UK's independent influence is on the decline.  Think of the clout of a big supermarket compared to your independent corner shop.

The EU is not all bad and we can pick the bits we do like - nowt wrong with CE
Yup it shows the advantages of working together.

It would be a classic example of, as an independent nation (if that were to happen) of having to comply with, no matter what, whatever the EU decides but have no say whatsoever.
No they wont,-- hot air -- t
In terms of inward investment the EU will look much more attractive then an Indy UK.  We'll keep losing out all the time.

Not to mention there is the small issue of much of our infrastructure now being (sadly) EU owned, that will become very much foreign owned and outside of our influence to some degree.
If Hsbc honda toyota to trade freely within the EU - why didn't they set up there in the first place
EH?  They are in the EU!  Yes they did!  But they might not take kindly to being dragged out.
Aston Martin?  Well they ain't built the factory yet!  But to be honest being a small nice producer I'm not sure how important being inside the EU is to them.  In terms of Wales, well we may find out if we leave.




Mr Tread I hear you, but,

I doubt it very much. Wales doesn't have a separate government. It only has an assembly with very limited powers. It's the United Kingdom that's part of the EU, and unlike Scotland, Wales cannot vote to separate from the UK in it's current form.

Scotland has a government in name only, legally we have an Executive.
Scotland has no legal right to separate from the UK.  But with the Scottish Government calling a consultative referendum a few years back, the UK government felt it had no other option but to grant Scotland temporary powers to allow that to become a legally binding referendum under what was called the Edinburgh Agreement (the terms of which the UK government broke in desperation during the closing weeks of the campaign).
 
 

[mtread]

I stand corrected VNA. Just trying to make the point that Wales has less chance of leaving the UK than Scotland ever did.
Which makes me think. Whichever way the In/Out vote goes, it will (is) causing massive division and potential bitterness. Both in Government and the public. Especially if it's close, we will end up with kind of resentment still held in Scotland over devolution.
This is such an important 'black or white' decision, you can bet 49% of the population is going to be pissed off.

[HarryHornby]

I'm certainly one for leaving the EU, I like the whole "shot in the dark" thing.  I quite like a gamble and the way I see it is a lot of big businesess men have made their fortunes by taking business gambles, shots in the dark.  Hey let's see what happens.


Also, I believe we as a country are full, we need to control our borders and stop building excessive numbers of new homes.


We need to fix the benefit system, put something in place that encourages claimants to go get a lower paid job rather than sit on their bums all day, how can they do this when a lot of the lower paid jobs are being done by EU immigrants?  Just look at the Sports Direct warehouse in Shirehouse.  The EU showed they won't help us with this with Cameron's recent visit to negotiate.


We need to control our benefit system and make it less appealing to people from outside the UK, it's hard enough trying to pay for UK nationals to be on benefit let alone everyone else.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Also, for the "remain in" lot, just wait until you're irretrievably committed, and then Germany and France use their combined clout to make all the trading and economical criteria favourable for themselves - noooooo, they wouldn't, would they?   

[fazersharp]

Also, for the "remain in" lot, just wait until you're irretrievably committed, and then Germany and France use their combined clout to make all the trading and economical criteria favourable for themselves - noooooo, they wouldn't, would they?   

Yep if we vote to stay that will be it, there will be no more pussyfooting around the uk trying to appease us trying not to upset the British people too much for fear of an out vote. It will be a case of "you vote to stay and now you are going to do what we say" and we will be required to take a much bigger quote of migrants.

Its funny that the Calais jungle camp has been there for years and years and only now with the vote around the corner are the French finally doing something about it.     

[fazersharp]

My prediction is.
Cameron will not get the agreement he is after and will leave saying it was not good enough, that will save his face and he will come home strutting like a peacock.
And there will be no June vote
Mean while France and Germany will put the pressure on the smaller countries to agree to our demands by scaring them that if we leave their gravy train will end,
A new agreement will be sought and agreed (same but re worded)
Cameron will come home and triumph it and a vote will happen in the Autumn.
And then we will leave
Cameron will resign and Boris will become PM.
Mean while we will score no points in the eurovision song contest as the whole of the EU spits on us.   

I have a new prediction
We will vote to leave by a narrow vote and then Cameron will go back to the EU asking for proper wider reaching new terms - which he will get, this time with ease atfer we have showed them we are serious.
Then there will be a new vote and we will vote to stay by the same narrow margin but ofcoures that one will stik.

Look at the Irish Lisbon treaty vote they said no but the EU made made them vote again until they came up with the "correct" result.   

[Slaninar]

I am all for immigration its a fantastic thing, we need doctors - professionals- etc. What we don't need are the un skilled who are out of work in their own countries. Its our country and we should be the ones who decide who is allowed in.     

So it's OK when Serbia pays for education of a doctor/engineer and he works in England, but it's not OK when a mechanic decides he'd rather not work for 10 times less money just because he was born in a wrong place? 

[Hedgetrimmer]

I am all for immigration its a fantastic thing, we need doctors - professionals- etc. What we don't need are the un skilled who are out of work in their own countries. Its our country and we should be the ones who decide who is allowed in.     

So it's OK when Serbia pays for education of a doctor/engineer and he works in England, but it's not OK when a mechanic decides he'd rather not work for 10 times less money just because he was born in a wrong place? 

Yes.

[fazersharp]

I am all for immigration its a fantastic thing, we need doctors - professionals- etc. What we don't need are the un skilled who are out of work in their own countries. Its our country and we should be the ones who decide who is allowed in.     

So it's OK when Serbia pays for education of a doctor/engineer and he works in England, but it's not OK when a mechanic decides he'd rather not work for 10 times less money just because he was born in a wrong place? 

Yes