The Jock vote

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Didn't realise it was only six, but the next general election seems so close that 6 could make the difference.

If there's an EU referendum, and the vote is to stay within it, then I think UKIP's vote will collapse because their main policy (get out of EU) cannot be obtained any more. Although the SNP obviously has a more rounded policy set, having been in government an' all, still its main policy (get out of UK) cannot be obtained any more, so I should think support would dwindle.

Of course you're going to disagree as you're obviously a big SNP fan. We can only wait and see.

No I'm not a big fan of the SNP, I'm not a member of the SNP, and at the last general election I voted Labour.

I think the danger for Scotland, if we vote NO, is that we get a Tory government next year, a Tory government that has pledged an IN/OUT referendum on the EU.  Scotland risks not only another Tory government it does not want, but also being dragged out of the EU.  I say NO NO NO to that

  YES YES YES 

[The Gentleman Biker]

.

[slimwilly]

Well if the rest of them follow a few who say "we will be better off" then let them,,i am sure the yes voters are all fools,,yes fools.


as a united nation all businessess have the same oppertunity to prosper,import,export , and under the UK banner .


Will other countries be as willing to do business with a  NEW state,country, stable,unstable,who knows,, what was wrong with being part of the UK?


Scotland seems to have a bad history of going it alone,,it is not part of the uk for no reason,,check the history books..


Alot of the "yes" voters are racial headlees chicken who don't know the mouth from there arse.


And if they cut loose,,then goodbye, enjoy yourselves.

[fazersharp]

So back to real important stuff, if the Scots go will that mean that the weather forecasts will be quicker as they wont need to bother with Scotland like they don't now with Ireland

[Farjo]

 

You have to be logged in to see an image from that site - all we get is the redX

[The Gentleman Biker]

Oh, balls. Ignore me then :p

[lew600fazer]

Seems to be an idea up in Scotland that they will remain in the EU if the vote is yes. I am sure that will not be the case. Scotland as an independant nation will have to apply for EU membership.
I believe it only takes one member state to block the application?? SPAIN WILL BLOCK THAT APPLICATION!!! 100% there is no way the Spanish will vote them in. Reason Barcelona and the Catalan regions will push even harder to splinter Spain, Madrid will not allow that to happen.

The SNP is going on about reveues from North Sea Oil. Are you actually believing that Scotland will dictate what goes on off the coast of Scotland concerning the resources/reserves of Oil&Gas of the coast. Take a wake pill here, BP & the Oil majors will dictate how much they may decide to pay a Scottish Government for the twindiling reserves off that coast. If you are foolish enough to believe that a Westminster government will give permission for Scotland to own and control the said revenues off thier coast, that will not happen.
Do you YES voters think that England and the rest of the UK will just quietly accept the loss of the wealth that the oil industry from the N Sea generates.

Better together, hope the vote runs close, may put the frighteners on the Westminster government, as in wake up here and spread the jobs and wealth around the rest of the UK.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Look Scotland is currently a member of the EU.  Scotland is fully integrated into the EU.  If Scotland votes YES on Thursday, then on Friday Scotland will still be a member of the EU.  That is a fact.  And I don't think anybody seriously thinks for one minute that the EU will subsequently throw Scotland out of the EU.  It's not gonna happen.

And north sea oil?  Why should Scottish people continue to see this resource squandered by Westminster.  Don't forget that going by what we were told in the 70's it should have run out by now.  But of course thanks to the 30 year rule we know all about those lies, and yes the talk in the Westminster cabinet in the 70's of taking Scotland's oil by force in the event of independence.

Thatcher used Scotland's oil to put four million plus working class people on the dole.  Subsequently it's been squandered in immoral wars in Afghanistan, Libya and an illegal war in Iraq looking for WMD that everybody knew didn't exist.  Of course that's the other thing that Scotland's oil has been squandered on, WMD - Trident, and Scotland's gonna scrap it now.

[lew600fazer]

VNA, Scotland is not a member of the EU, Scotland as part of the UK is a member of the EU, vote to leave the UK and you will be out of the EU. Why have Spanish politicians already stated that they will oppose Scotlands application to become a member of the EU.
Scotland do not own the Oil&Gas in the North Sea. It is British oil and it was the British Government along with the Oil Majors who paid for the exploration and development of the NorthSea, Cast your mind back when Oil was discovered it was BP who found it and at that time BP was solely owned by the British Government. If you think that Westminster will just say okay have the oil we do not care one of us is in for a surprise.

I think there is a message here for the SNP in the attached photo lol

[mickvp]

Just to touch on the whole "EU" thing:

Lew, you have it bang on. Scotland (as a nation) is NOT part of the EU. Scotland is part of the UK, and it is the UK which holds a membership. I've heard the argument about Catalonia using our automatic membership as a precedent for themselves as they are trying for their own independance. It is different though, Scotland is and always has been it's own country, Catalonia is a region OF a country and hence no pre edence is set.

Let's take a practical approach to this problem. Let's say Scotland votes yes, and becomes it's own independent nation. Let's say we apply to join the EU through either article 48 or article 49 and we get refused to join.

This means that overnight - EVERY Scot who is working abroad in another EU country, and every EU member who is working here is Scotland WILL become an illegal immigrant overnight as the EU rules which allow them to migrate through the Euro zone will cease to be in effect.

This is no small minority, we are talking circa 400,000 people from what I have read. I think you will agree that even a small percentage of that would be too much work for any one police force to bear, both here and overseas. It is for this reason I think common sense will prevail and we will be granted entry.

[lew600fazer]

Mick&VNA, Hope you do not think I am being anti Scottish, I am not, with a name like McColl how can I be, I am very pro British my brother lives in Crosshouse and all his family went through the Scottish education system , Dentist, Doctor and a Lawyer so not exactly numpties, my brother was director of finance for Strathclyde University all are voting NO.

On the question of EU membership surely Scotland will still have to apply and that process will not be done and dusted overnight.
Why seek EU memebrship, at least if Scotland did go their own way you can control your own borders and say who comes into the country. This is one of the biggest gripes going on within the UK as in the influx of foreign nationals from eastern europe.

If I was in the YES camp I would be pressing for closer ties with the likes of Norway rather than the EU. Cameron has said if re-elected he will hold a referendum on the UK /EU membership, personally I do not believe that will happen or it will be worded in such a way regardless of the outcome we will stay in the EU

[VNA - BMW Wank]

On the question of EU membership surely Scotland will still have to apply and that process will not be done and dusted overnight.

Lew we will be asking for continuation of our membership.  We will have at least two years to negotiate terms with the EU.  Scotland is already fully integrated in every possible respect in everything we do with the EU.   I like every Scot am an EU citizen.

A lot of people are voting YES becuase they do not want to be dragged out of the EU club by the English.

Are you actually believing that Scotland will dictate what goes on off the coast of Scotland concerning the resources/reserves of Oil&Gas of the coast.

Is the remainder of the UK going to ignore international law? 

Do you YES voters think that England and the rest of the UK will just quietly accept the loss of the wealth that the oil industry from the N Sea generates.

We've sat and watched that wealth, our wealth be wasted and squandered for decades. 

[lew600fazer]

Is the remainder of the UK going to ignore international law? 

It has never bothered the UK in the past to ignore international law, some spin doctor somewhere will find a loop hole.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

It has never bothered the UK in the past to ignore international law, some spin doctor somewhere will find a loop hole.

OK you gotta point there Lew, I'll give you that one, I mean British Empire and all that, England just takes what it wants

[mickvp]

Mick&VNA, Hope you do not think I am being anti Scottish,

not at all mate, nowt wrong with a bit of healthy debate 

[lew600fazer]

It has never bothered the UK in the past to ignore international law, some spin doctor somewhere will find a loop hole.

OK you gotta point there Lew, I'll give you that one, I mean British Empire and all that, England just takes what it wants

VNA, Come on now, the British Empire and the making of it involved the Scots , The Irish and abley assisted by our fellow Celts the Welsh.

Just toss this one into the mix name one successful Pure born English General/Field Marshal

[esetest]

all this flag waving is horseshit as long as ordinary people keep fighting and blaming eachother then the wealthy and the politicians will keep there snouts in the trough .

[VNA - BMW Wank]

VNA, Come on now, the British Empire and the making of it involved the Scots

Absolutely.  Just today the Scots hang their heads in shame, while the English mourn the loss of their glory days.

[lew600fazer]

all this flag waving is horseshit as long as ordinary people keep fighting and blaming eachother then the wealthy and the politicians will keep there snouts in the trough .

Estest,No one is under no illusion that the pigs will still have their snouts in the trough regardless of which way the vote goes. There are some decent politicians though not all rotten to the core , Frank Field to name one.

[Deefer666]

It pisses me off that our governments can organise a referendum for Scotland's independence in such a sort space of time and yet still not give the UK population a referendum on independence from Europe after all these years. WTF?

[red98]

agree with that deefer......its the "them and us game" there ok,looking after each other,its the hard working who pay their way that gets clobbered.....think we should stay together,strength in numbers and all that.....so what about our title...."Great Britain"....includes...england,wales,ireland and scotland.....!!!!!!!!

[Hedgetrimmer]

I think the Scots will just be exchanging one set of greedy, self-serving politicians for another. Ca plus ca change...

Oh, and VNA, don't think you can claim to speak for the English too. What makes you think I mourn the loss of empire?
And what's the sense of hanging your head in shame for the sins your forbears committed? Not your fault is it? We learn the lessons, and hopefully move on in a better direction.

Oh shit, I meant to stay out of this one     

[midden]

Thatcher used Scotland's oil to put four million plus working class people on the dole. 

There's a reason then for Scotland to hold it's head in shame then, it helped to put English and Welsh working class people on the dole.

It pisses me off that our governments can organise a referendum for Scotland's independence in such a sort space of time and yet still not give the UK population a referendum on independence from Europe after all these years. WTF?

Probably held off until after the Scottish referendum to get a fairer and more accurate result regarding EU.  That is presuming they intend to go ahead with EU referendum

[Deefer666]

But the Scottish Yes party have not even finalised a constitution yet, nor have they submitted details of how their finances will work. I fear this has less to do with independence and more to do with certain politicians carving out an empire for themselves and getting rich in the process.


How can people vote yes if they do not know what they are actually saying yes to? seems half baked to me.

[midden]

Salmond has just said on the radio  'There are no 'no' votes only deferred yes's.'
So are we to understand that he will continue the campaign regardless of the decision made by the Scotish people until he gets independence and most importantly, his own way.
All rather pot kettle to me