The Jock vote

[Exupnut]

If it is a 100% inclusive campaign why are Scots who live and work in other parts of the UK being excluded from the vote, just a question thats all
[/quote]

Good point. Or Scottish people all over the world.

[chaz]

Will the ordinary man on the scottish street be better off if there is a yes vote, I doubt it, but all that oil money will go somewhere ?

[mickvp]

Will the ordinary man on the scottish street be better off if there is a yes vote, I doubt it, but all that oil money will go somewhere ?

I honestly dont think we will be better off as a nation independantly - initially. I think its the best move in the long term though, but for the forseeable future it would likely bring hard times (and some of this will probably knock on to the rest of the UK too, as an independant Scotland will surely affect the strength of the GBP?)

[lew600fazer]

Also am I correct in saying they have lowered the voting age to 16? personally I would not send a 16 year old out to buy a bottle of milk never mind decide the possible future of the Union. I know when I was 16 all I had in my head was football, girls and motorbikes
If the vote is a NO vote will the voting age then go back up to 18 again, that is unless the rest of the UK also lower it.
We hear daily on the news and other media that employers are concerned that children leaving school are not coming to the work place equiped with basic skills such as reading and writing. Salmond and his mates are using these young people for his own ends here.
Me if I was at school these days likely as not I would be in special needs.

[Doddsie]

If it has a knock on affect to the rest of the UK and it is a vote to end Britain as it is, then it has to be asked, why isnt the rest of the UK allowed to vote?

[Stupid Luke]

If it is a 100% inclusive campaign why are Scots who live and work in other parts of the UK being excluded from the vote, just a question thats all

Because it is The Scottish people that will decide.  That is the people who live, work and contribute to Scotland.

And 16 yr old kids that have never contributed to anything and expect their free university places (paid for by England) will continue whichever way they vote.


I reckon if the Scots vote no the English should get their own referendum to decide if we still want to subsidize them.

[mickvp]

Also am I correct in saying they have lowered the voting age to 16? personally I would not send a 16 year old out to buy a bottle of milk never mind decide the possible future of the Union. I know when I was 16 all I had in my head was football, girls and motorbikes
If the vote is a NO vote will the voting age then go back up to 18 again, that is unless the rest of the UK also lower it.
We hear daily on the news and other media that employers are concerned that children leaving school are not coming to the work place equiped with basic skills such as reading and writing. Salmond and his mates are using these young people for his own ends here.
Me if I was at school these days likely as not I would be in special needs.

correct - 16 year old will get a vote for this (im not sure if they will be allowed to vote in general elections etc. after this, or they have been allowed to vote for this vote only)

[mickvp]

If it has a knock on affect to the rest of the UK and it is a vote to end Britain as it is, then it has to be asked, why isnt the rest of the UK allowed to vote?

im not saying it definately will - but look at the strength of the GBP over the past couple of days when it was announced the "yes" camp had taken the lead at the polls. I just think that if the vote goes through this same dip in the strength of the currency will be repeated but amplified (thats my own personal opinion, I have no facts to back that up)

[noggythenog]

I really think the whole first passed the post system and the political elite in general are to blame for it all...........Scotland has just found the excuse it needs to escape it all.......although if they end up adopting exactly the same political system as the UK currently has then it will be for nothing.


Everyone knows that our current system is rubbish and totally self serving and that we end up bouncing from Tory to Labour in some kind of perpetual loop.....same old same old same old shit all the time.....only a small fraction of people even being bothered to vote because of a complete dissatisfaction with it all.


So i think if Scotland says yes then it's their golden opportunity to sort that out and create a fair system.


& if Scotland showcases a better system then it could be the chance for the rest of the UK to stand up and say to foc with all this old political shit too & lets also get a fairer system in place.


Basically the more folk that either given the opportunity to vote, forced to vote even the better.


& the more that those votes count towards something useful and meaningful in a straight forward no fuss way the better.

[mickvp]

cant say I disagree with any of that noggster.

I dont think its the system thats the problem - its the politicians on the whole. the big bucks and relatively cushy conditions attracts an unbalanced group of people - there are almost no working class people who move into politics. its mostly upper class/middle class people so the working class are poorly represented - even labour are now mostly middle class politicians.

I think if you really want to sort the system out we should start by cutting the MP's/MSP's wages down to something reasonable. Expenses are all well and good, and make sense so long as ther are sensible limits set. If they want to be "fair" then the politicians wages should be tied to the national average wage - if they want a wage rise they cant just vote for one for themselves - they will need to get the national average wage up, which will help people who need it most.

It will never happen though, because why would they ever vote a wage cut for themselves - none of them have enough backbone to do the "right" thing by the people, they all seem to be too concerned with lining their own pockets, and that goes for all parties, not any one in particular. its quite maddening.

[Doddsie]

I still think that this affects everyone, not just the Scottish and therefore everyone should have a vote, if there is a possibility of Britain being `broken up` then surely  everyone in Britain is entitled to have a say?

[lew600fazer]

If it is a 100% inclusive campaign why are Scots who live and work in other parts of the UK being excluded from the vote, just a question thats all

Because it is The Scottish people that will decide.  That is the people who live, work and contribute to Scotland.

And 16 yr old kids that have never contributed to anything and expect their free university places (paid for by England) will continue whichever way they vote.


I reckon if the Scots vote no the English should get their own referendum to decide if we still want to subsidize them.

Ah!! the quote by Stupid Luke is one of the reasons the Scots are looking at going it alone. Just to enlighten you all parts of the Union which makes up the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. IS ENGLAND , SCOTLAND , WALES & NORTHERN IRELAND, The Union flag is made up from the Cross of St George, St Andrewand St Patrick, poor old Wales for one reason or another is not represented in the Union flag, No offence to the Welsh here but I think Wales is only deemed as being a Principality.

I do not mean to offend the English here but it is this type of mind set that gets up the rest of the citizens of the UK noses, as in England is subsidizing the rest of us, It is basically the financial sector around London that is subsidizing the rest of us, that includes the rest of England as well North of the Watford Gap, not everyone in that sector is English,
I am from N Ireland but lived most of my life in England, I will say this I find the English a warm and tolerant people, at least I was allowed to live my life there with my family in peace when at a time that was not possible from where I came from in N Ireland. A lot of English , Scots, Welsh & N Irish lads gave there lives over there in the fight to keep us British which is what the majority of that part of the UK want to stay. It will be a very sad day if the Scots decide to go their own way, We are stronger togather.

[fireblake]

Ok, I get why the Scottish want to be free from the British (English) government but I don't get why they then want to hand it over to Brussels?


Mickey

[bigbluebear]

Also am I correct in saying they have lowered the voting age to 16? personally I would not send a 16 year old out to buy a bottle of milk never mind decide the possible future of the Union. I know when I was 16 all I had in my head was football, girls and motorbikes
If the vote is a NO vote will the voting age then go back up to 18 again, that is unless the rest of the UK also lower it.
We hear daily on the news and other media that employers are concerned that children leaving school are not coming to the work place equiped with basic skills such as reading and writing. Salmond and his mates are using these young people for his own ends here.
Me if I was at school these days likely as not I would be in special needs.

correct - 16 year old will get a vote for this (im not sure if they will be allowed to vote in general elections etc. after this, or they have been allowed to vote for this vote only)

16 year olds should be allowed to vote as it their future too and with they have the most longevity.

I actually also don't think we are subsidised by the English as the "no" vote would have this as their main argument. The fact that Politicians are now panicking and are coming up here to defend their "better together" says something in my book.

There is enough income from the North Sea for many decades and beyond. Technology is getting better therefore drilling will be deeper and fracking will also become much more intelligent.....and there is certainly proof of that.

Scotland could become a energy and power "power house" with the oil and gas worth some £1.5 trillion and its industry is forecast to generate an estimated £48 billion in tax revenue every year. This together with natural resources offshore in wind, water and wave would lead Scotland in Europe in terms of power and energy.....these are resources of energy that can never be exhausted and will generate billions of pounds and thousands of jobs far into the future.....Scotland is the only country in the world to discover oil and end up poorer unlike any other oil rich nation.

And what about our other industries, biosciences, food, drink, tourism, deep fried mars bars etc all doing extremely well.

Defences....what do we an army for....we've got John Smeaton 

We can make our own decisions and live by them....and not be governed by Westminster

Me....I'm sitting on the fence 

[locksmith]

Oi, I didn't want to know about why Scotlandshire is voting yes or no, I want to know how it will effect me if they split?





At least Lewfazer has mentioned currency rates effecting him in SUNNY BLOODY SPAIN  despite calling me a shitty Arsenal fan

[bigbluebear]

You should be asking your own politicians that question......but don't expect an answer.....that's why we want away

[hightower]

{EDITED}

[noggythenog]

At the end of the day i dont think it will really affect you all that much......well not to a level of suffering anyway....the alarm clock will still go off in the morning...x factor will still haunt us for 6 months of the year.....the sun will rise and set and the rain will pour.


So some individuals may gain or lose money but hey that's just money........suffering a disease or crashing the bike and ending up disabled would affect us far more than Scottish independence.


We've gone through umpteen wars and we've suffered financial crashes and we're still around in relative normality.


All this crap from politicians about how much we will all suffer is really just a guise for what they really mean which is " THEY" will suffer..........goody gum drops lets carry on.

[locksmith]

Just what I thought!

[pilgo]

If it is a 100% inclusive campaign why are Scots who live and work in other parts of the UK being excluded from the vote, just a question thats all

Because it is The Scottish people that will decide.  That is the people who live, work and contribute to Scotland.

 
well,that discounts 60% of the population then,as their all on the social arnt they? 

[pilgo]

Or look at it this way, the white population of the UK will be reduced by around about 4.5million and the Muslim population in what remains of the UK will have increased it's %share by what 20%, be worried................


...........I am no raving Tory/Labourite/Libdem either

Umm no, but just a little racist perhaps?

Anyway I'm voting YES!

 
seriously,how the foc does that quote make him racist? 
 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Also am I correct in saying they have lowered the voting age to 16? personally I would not send a 16 year old out to buy a bottle of milk never mind decide the possible future of the Union. I know when I was 16 all I had in my head was football, girls and motorbikes
If the vote is a NO vote will the voting age then go back up to 18 again, that is unless the rest of the UK also lower it.
We hear daily on the news and other media that employers are concerned that children leaving school are not coming to the work place equiped with basic skills such as reading and writing. Salmond and his mates are using these young people for his own ends here.
Me if I was at school these days likely as not I would be in special needs.

Yup 16 and 17 year olds get to vote.

I think it's a good move.  The important factor I think is that at 16 or 17 you can go out and work, therefore pay taxes.  If you are old enougth to pay tax then you should logically have a say in how those taxes are spent.

It's also engaging people in politics at a younger age, and crucially at an age when they are either still at school or just about to leave. 

Yes I would hope, irrespective of the outcome of this referendum, that in Scotland and across the UK the standard voting age will be 16.

And 16 yr old kids that have never contributed to anything and expect their free university places (paid for by England) will continue whichever way they vote.

At the end of the day Stupid, Scotland contributes X amount to the UK.  Via the barnett formula we get X minus a big chuck back- ie our budget.  The Scottish Parliament then has to decide how to spend it's budget, the reason we have free education, free prescriptions, free care for the elderly etc is becuase how we in Scotland decide to spend our budget.

I reckon if the Scots vote no the English should get their own referendum to decide if we still want to subsidize them.

Don't be stupid now.

You may wish to ponder why the pound took a wee slide when we had a poll suggesting a YES victory. 

And as for the currency union, well I'll bet you if there is a YES result, very quickly both sides will be discussing a possible currency union.  The last thing that anybody needs is a run on the pound, and that's a real danger if there is no currency union. 


  YES YES YES 

[Farjo]

Scotland seems pretty pro-EU, so without them voting in an EU referendum there will be more chance of England/Wales/NIreland voting to leave. But perhaps your next question would be "How will leaving the EU affect me?".

As mentioned, if they vote Yes then we will get more Conservative governments, but if they vote No then perhaps the SNP's vote will collapse at the next general election, and Labour will pick up their seats, meaning more chance of Labour governments.

Our flag would change:

Details Union Jockless

Union Jockless

(You can see I spent a long time on this)

[VNA - BMW Wank]

As mentioned, if they vote Yes then we will get more Conservative governments, but if they vote No then perhaps the SNP's vote will collapse at the next general election, and Labour will pick up their seats, meaning more chance of Labour governments.

I don't see that the SNP will take a hit post a possible NO vote.  And in any case with only 6 seats would anybody notice, apart from those of us in Scotland, if they did get wiped out?

Post a YES vote, I think you'll have the North of England and Wales screaming for constitutional change.  There would also be a massive debate around Trident.  Do you want build a new base for Trident plus replace the ageing subs and weapons system, would the remainder of the UK accept that massive economic hit, people going hungry for Trident?

I think post YES we'll see politics alive right across England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland like never before.


  YES YES YES 

[Farjo]

Didn't realise it was only six, but the next general election seems so close that 6 could make the difference.

If there's an EU referendum, and the vote is to stay within it, then I think UKIP's vote will collapse because their main policy (get out of EU) cannot be obtained any more. Although the SNP obviously has a more rounded policy set, having been in government an' all, still its main policy (get out of UK) cannot be obtained any more, so I should think support would dwindle.

Of course you're going to disagree as you're obviously a big SNP fan. We can only wait and see.