Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial

General => General => Topic started by: locksmith on 11 September 2014, 10:54:49 am

Title: The Jock vote
Post by: locksmith on 11 September 2014, 10:54:49 am
OK, I'm not politically minded and haven't been following the great debate.

But, as I live in England, how does it effect me if Scotland leaves?
Should I give a monkeys either way?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 11 September 2014, 11:13:54 am
We get to make jokes about the Scots.
We get to import more oil and gas.
We are less likely to see a labour government in the near future
our exports will increase (Buckfast etc)
our imports will increase (whisky etc)
prices will go up
taxes will go up (even though they should reduce)

Ultimately, we wont notice any change from now really.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: JoeRock on 11 September 2014, 12:41:53 pm
Alternatively we do a Russia, let them go their own way, invade a couple years later, and voila - Greater England!
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 11 September 2014, 01:42:43 pm
Or look at it this way, the white population of the UK will be reduced by around about 4.5million and the Muslim population in what remains of the UK will have increased it's %share by what 20%, be worried. The Britsh Army will lose around about 25% of the regulars as will the rest of the armed forces.
Some may say why worry. I think it will be a very sad day if it happens. We may all joke about it but this is a really serious issue. I am no raving Tory/Labourite/Libdem either but just think a Tory government for the next 30 fucking years, all well and good but not if you live outside of the financial sector of London and North of the Watford Gap
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: locksmith on 11 September 2014, 02:03:44 pm
all well and good but not if you live outside of the financial sector of London and North of the Watford Gap

Perhaps I should rephrase the question, Living in the affluent South East, should I be worried about Scotland :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: alan sherman on 11 September 2014, 02:53:35 pm
It'll make the decision about whether to spend all day on the M1 or a couple of hours under the channel easier.  With border controls, funny money and the stirred up anti-English sentiment this whole thing has caused, going to France looks like a much better option.  Shame as I really enjoyed touring Scotland about a decade ago.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: richfzs on 11 September 2014, 03:02:41 pm
As opposed to the anti English sentiment in France. Survey out today, of all the major European countries, one countries citizens voted to kick UK out of the eu.... Yep, France...
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: dazza on 11 September 2014, 03:35:06 pm
I don't really give a foc but, if it means I never have to listen to a foccing set of bagpipes again......I'm all for it.  :D
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 11 September 2014, 05:25:21 pm
on the bright side. if Scotland vote YES, it will reduce the yearly uk rainfall by about 10 inches a year :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: fazersharp on 11 September 2014, 06:51:55 pm
Will a yes vote mean that we will get the daylight back that they steel from us every October when we all have to turn the clocks back just because up north its otherwise too dark in the morning for them.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 September 2014, 07:09:15 pm
Quote
Or look at it this way, the white population of the UK will be reduced by around about 4.5million and the Muslim population in what remains of the UK will have increased it's %share by what 20%, be worried................


...........I am no raving Tory/Labourite/Libdem either


Umm no, but just a little racist perhaps?

Anyway I'm voting YES! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 11 September 2014, 07:40:59 pm
I've not made my mind up yet. I've read a lot of different info on it, but still not fully committed either way...
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: rustyrider on 11 September 2014, 08:25:03 pm
Survey out today, of all the major European countries, one countries citizens voted to kick UK out of the eu.... Yep, France...
Blimey, does this mean that just for once the French and English agree on something?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: fazersharp on 11 September 2014, 09:07:27 pm
Survey out today, of all the major European countries, one countries citizens voted to kick UK out of the eu.... Yep, France...
Blimey, does this mean that just for once the French and English agree on something?
:lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 11 September 2014, 09:30:55 pm
all well and good but not if you live outside of the financial sector of London and North of the Watford Gap

Perhaps I should rephrase the question, Living in the affluent South East, should I be worried about Scotland :lol

locksmith, I think you made typo there mate, did you not mean effluent.

Must admit though do not know why I am getting hot under the collar, well actually I do it is all this uncertainty is playing havoc in the market and having an adverse effect on the £ v € exchange rate, living on the Costa Blanca it is short changing me on my pension rate.

But I suppose what else would one expect re your reply being an Arsenal supporter :rolleyes
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 11 September 2014, 09:34:32 pm
Quote
Or look at it this way, the white population of the UK will be reduced by around about 4.5million and the Muslim population in what remains of the UK will have increased it's %share by what 20%, be worried................


...........I am no raving Tory/Labourite/Libdem either


Umm no, but just a little racist perhaps?

Anyway I'm voting YES! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Not racist just stating what will likely become a fact
Title: The Jock vote
Post by: Exupnut on 11 September 2014, 09:44:50 pm
Fucking bike forum for fucks sake
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 11 September 2014, 09:45:57 pm
Fucking bike forum for fuck sake

why dont you tell us how you really feel :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Exupnut on 11 September 2014, 09:52:16 pm
Just re quoting
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 September 2014, 10:04:10 pm
Quote
Not racist just stating what will likely become a fact

If you are not a racist, then why are you worried?


Personally I'm not interested in the colour of people's skin, or for that matter what their religion is.

And just in case lets be absolutely clear, the YES campaign is a 100% inclusive campaign.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Frosties on 11 September 2014, 10:05:09 pm
Just re quoting
Said the prozzy  :rollin
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Doddsie on 11 September 2014, 10:05:45 pm
There ya go Exup..... ;)


Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 11 September 2014, 10:12:27 pm
Everybody is racist to a certain extent, would appear from the general feeling on here those that live down south do not really care for the Scots.
THe 1400 cases of sexual grooming/child abuse recently reported and sadly ignored by the police and socail services in Rotterham is not really doing a lot for racial harmony

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 11 September 2014, 10:20:12 pm
Quote
Not racist just stating what will likely become a fact

If you are not a racist, then why are you worried?


Personally I'm not interested in the colour of people's skin, or for that matter what their religion is.

And just in case lets be absolutely clear, the YES campaign is a 100% inclusive campaign.
If it is a 100% inclusive campaign why are Scots who live and work in other parts of the UK being excluded from the vote, just a question thats all
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 September 2014, 10:28:58 pm
Quote
If it is a 100% inclusive campaign why are Scots who live and work in other parts of the UK being excluded from the vote, just a question thats all

Because it is The Scottish people that will decide.  That is the people who live, work and contribute to Scotland.
Title: The Jock vote
Post by: Exupnut on 11 September 2014, 10:32:22 pm

If it is a 100% inclusive campaign why are Scots who live and work in other parts of the UK being excluded from the vote, just a question thats all
[/quote]

Good point. Or Scottish people all over the world.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: chaz on 11 September 2014, 10:41:49 pm
Will the ordinary man on the scottish street be better off if there is a yes vote, I doubt it, but all that oil money will go somewhere ?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 11 September 2014, 10:55:35 pm
Will the ordinary man on the scottish street be better off if there is a yes vote, I doubt it, but all that oil money will go somewhere ?

I honestly dont think we will be better off as a nation independantly - initially. I think its the best move in the long term though, but for the forseeable future it would likely bring hard times (and some of this will probably knock on to the rest of the UK too, as an independant Scotland will surely affect the strength of the GBP?)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 11 September 2014, 10:59:42 pm
Also am I correct in saying they have lowered the voting age to 16? personally I would not send a 16 year old out to buy a bottle of milk never mind decide the possible future of the Union. I know when I was 16 all I had in my head was football, girls and motorbikes
If the vote is a NO vote will the voting age then go back up to 18 again, that is unless the rest of the UK also lower it.
We hear daily on the news and other media that employers are concerned that children leaving school are not coming to the work place equiped with basic skills such as reading and writing. Salmond and his mates are using these young people for his own ends here.
Me if I was at school these days likely as not I would be in special needs. ;)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Doddsie on 11 September 2014, 11:04:00 pm
If it has a knock on affect to the rest of the UK and it is a vote to end Britain as it is, then it has to be asked, why isnt the rest of the UK allowed to vote?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Stupid Luke on 11 September 2014, 11:07:36 pm
Quote
If it is a 100% inclusive campaign why are Scots who live and work in other parts of the UK being excluded from the vote, just a question thats all

Because it is The Scottish people that will decide.  That is the people who live, work and contribute to Scotland.


And 16 yr old kids that have never contributed to anything and expect their free university places (paid for by England) will continue whichever way they vote.


I reckon if the Scots vote no the English should get their own referendum to decide if we still want to subsidize them.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 11 September 2014, 11:10:46 pm
Also am I correct in saying they have lowered the voting age to 16? personally I would not send a 16 year old out to buy a bottle of milk never mind decide the possible future of the Union. I know when I was 16 all I had in my head was football, girls and motorbikes
If the vote is a NO vote will the voting age then go back up to 18 again, that is unless the rest of the UK also lower it.
We hear daily on the news and other media that employers are concerned that children leaving school are not coming to the work place equiped with basic skills such as reading and writing. Salmond and his mates are using these young people for his own ends here.
Me if I was at school these days likely as not I would be in special needs. ;)

correct - 16 year old will get a vote for this (im not sure if they will be allowed to vote in general elections etc. after this, or they have been allowed to vote for this vote only)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 11 September 2014, 11:13:13 pm
If it has a knock on affect to the rest of the UK and it is a vote to end Britain as it is, then it has to be asked, why isnt the rest of the UK allowed to vote?

im not saying it definately will - but look at the strength of the GBP over the past couple of days when it was announced the "yes" camp had taken the lead at the polls. I just think that if the vote goes through this same dip in the strength of the currency will be repeated but amplified (thats my own personal opinion, I have no facts to back that up)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: noggythenog on 11 September 2014, 11:25:20 pm



I really think the whole first passed the post system and the political elite in general are to blame for it all...........Scotland has just found the excuse it needs to escape it all.......although if they end up adopting exactly the same political system as the UK currently has then it will be for nothing.


Everyone knows that our current system is rubbish and totally self serving and that we end up bouncing from Tory to Labour in some kind of perpetual loop.....same old same old same old shit all the time.....only a small fraction of people even being bothered to vote because of a complete dissatisfaction with it all.


So i think if Scotland says yes then it's their golden opportunity to sort that out and create a fair system.


& if Scotland showcases a better system then it could be the chance for the rest of the UK to stand up and say to foc with all this old political shit too & lets also get a fairer system in place.


Basically the more folk that either given the opportunity to vote, forced to vote even the better.


& the more that those votes count towards something useful and meaningful in a straight forward no fuss way the better.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 11 September 2014, 11:31:35 pm
cant say I disagree with any of that noggster.

I dont think its the system thats the problem - its the politicians on the whole. the big bucks and relatively cushy conditions attracts an unbalanced group of people - there are almost no working class people who move into politics. its mostly upper class/middle class people so the working class are poorly represented - even labour are now mostly middle class politicians.

I think if you really want to sort the system out we should start by cutting the MP's/MSP's wages down to something reasonable. Expenses are all well and good, and make sense so long as ther are sensible limits set. If they want to be "fair" then the politicians wages should be tied to the national average wage - if they want a wage rise they cant just vote for one for themselves - they will need to get the national average wage up, which will help people who need it most.

It will never happen though, because why would they ever vote a wage cut for themselves - none of them have enough backbone to do the "right" thing by the people, they all seem to be too concerned with lining their own pockets, and that goes for all parties, not any one in particular. its quite maddening.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Doddsie on 11 September 2014, 11:34:12 pm
I still think that this affects everyone, not just the Scottish and therefore everyone should have a vote, if there is a possibility of Britain being `broken up` then surely  everyone in Britain is entitled to have a say?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 12 September 2014, 08:06:33 am
Quote
If it is a 100% inclusive campaign why are Scots who live and work in other parts of the UK being excluded from the vote, just a question thats all

Because it is The Scottish people that will decide.  That is the people who live, work and contribute to Scotland.


And 16 yr old kids that have never contributed to anything and expect their free university places (paid for by England) will continue whichever way they vote.


I reckon if the Scots vote no the English should get their own referendum to decide if we still want to subsidize them.

Ah!! the quote by Stupid Luke is one of the reasons the Scots are looking at going it alone. Just to enlighten you all parts of the Union which makes up the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland. IS ENGLAND , SCOTLAND , WALES & NORTHERN IRELAND, The Union flag is made up from the Cross of St George, St Andrewand St Patrick, poor old Wales for one reason or another is not represented in the Union flag, No offence to the Welsh here but I think Wales is only deemed as being a Principality.

I do not mean to offend the English here but it is this type of mind set that gets up the rest of the citizens of the UK noses, as in England is subsidizing the rest of us, It is basically the financial sector around London that is subsidizing the rest of us, that includes the rest of England as well North of the Watford Gap, not everyone in that sector is English,
I am from N Ireland but lived most of my life in England, I will say this I find the English a warm and tolerant people, at least I was allowed to live my life there with my family in peace when at a time that was not possible from where I came from in N Ireland. A lot of English , Scots, Welsh & N Irish lads gave there lives over there in the fight to keep us British which is what the majority of that part of the UK want to stay. It will be a very sad day if the Scots decide to go their own way, We are stronger togather.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: fireblake on 12 September 2014, 08:42:12 am
Ok, I get why the Scottish want to be free from the British (English) government but I don't get why they then want to hand it over to Brussels?


Mickey
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: bigbluebear on 12 September 2014, 09:14:57 am
Also am I correct in saying they have lowered the voting age to 16? personally I would not send a 16 year old out to buy a bottle of milk never mind decide the possible future of the Union. I know when I was 16 all I had in my head was football, girls and motorbikes
If the vote is a NO vote will the voting age then go back up to 18 again, that is unless the rest of the UK also lower it.
We hear daily on the news and other media that employers are concerned that children leaving school are not coming to the work place equiped with basic skills such as reading and writing. Salmond and his mates are using these young people for his own ends here.
Me if I was at school these days likely as not I would be in special needs. ;)

correct - 16 year old will get a vote for this (im not sure if they will be allowed to vote in general elections etc. after this, or they have been allowed to vote for this vote only)

16 year olds should be allowed to vote as it their future too and with they have the most longevity.

I actually also don't think we are subsidised by the English as the "no" vote would have this as their main argument. The fact that Politicians are now panicking and are coming up here to defend their "better together" says something in my book.

There is enough income from the North Sea for many decades and beyond. Technology is getting better therefore drilling will be deeper and fracking will also become much more intelligent.....and there is certainly proof of that.

Scotland could become a energy and power "power house" with the oil and gas worth some £1.5 trillion and its industry is forecast to generate an estimated £48 billion in tax revenue every year. This together with natural resources offshore in wind, water and wave would lead Scotland in Europe in terms of power and energy.....these are resources of energy that can never be exhausted and will generate billions of pounds and thousands of jobs far into the future.....Scotland is the only country in the world to discover oil and end up poorer unlike any other oil rich nation.

And what about our other industries, biosciences, food, drink, tourism, deep fried mars bars etc all doing extremely well.

Defences....what do we an army for....we've got John Smeaton  :eek

We can make our own decisions and live by them....and not be governed by Westminster

Me....I'm sitting on the fence  :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: locksmith on 12 September 2014, 10:00:28 am
Oi, I didn't want to know about why Scotlandshire is voting yes or no, I want to know how it will effect me if they split?





At least Lewfazer has mentioned currency rates effecting him in SUNNY BLOODY SPAIN  :sun despite calling me a shitty Arsenal fan :lol

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: bigbluebear on 12 September 2014, 12:18:48 pm
You should be asking your own politicians that question......but don't expect an answer.....that's why we want away
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: hightower on 12 September 2014, 12:27:38 pm
{EDITED}
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: noggythenog on 12 September 2014, 12:32:35 pm





At the end of the day i dont think it will really affect you all that much......well not to a level of suffering anyway....the alarm clock will still go off in the morning...x factor will still haunt us for 6 months of the year.....the sun will rise and set and the rain will pour.


So some individuals may gain or lose money but hey that's just money........suffering a disease or crashing the bike and ending up disabled would affect us far more than Scottish independence.


We've gone through umpteen wars and we've suffered financial crashes and we're still around in relative normality.


All this crap from politicians about how much we will all suffer is really just a guise for what they really mean which is " THEY" will suffer..........goody gum drops lets carry on. :)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: locksmith on 12 September 2014, 02:31:57 pm
Just what I thought!
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: pilgo on 12 September 2014, 05:23:55 pm
Quote
If it is a 100% inclusive campaign why are Scots who live and work in other parts of the UK being excluded from the vote, just a question thats all

Because it is The Scottish people that will decide.  That is the people who live, work and contribute to Scotland.

 
well,that discounts 60% of the population then,as their all on the social arnt they?  :D
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: pilgo on 12 September 2014, 05:33:16 pm
Quote
Or look at it this way, the white population of the UK will be reduced by around about 4.5million and the Muslim population in what remains of the UK will have increased it's %share by what 20%, be worried................


...........I am no raving Tory/Labourite/Libdem either


Umm no, but just a little racist perhaps?

Anyway I'm voting YES! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

 
seriously,how the foc does that quote make him racist?  :groan
 
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 September 2014, 06:31:29 pm
Quote
Also am I correct in saying they have lowered the voting age to 16? personally I would not send a 16 year old out to buy a bottle of milk never mind decide the possible future of the Union. I know when I was 16 all I had in my head was football, girls and motorbikes
If the vote is a NO vote will the voting age then go back up to 18 again, that is unless the rest of the UK also lower it.
We hear daily on the news and other media that employers are concerned that children leaving school are not coming to the work place equiped with basic skills such as reading and writing. Salmond and his mates are using these young people for his own ends here.
Me if I was at school these days likely as not I would be in special needs. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url])


Yup 16 and 17 year olds get to vote.

I think it's a good move.  The important factor I think is that at 16 or 17 you can go out and work, therefore pay taxes.  If you are old enougth to pay tax then you should logically have a say in how those taxes are spent.

It's also engaging people in politics at a younger age, and crucially at an age when they are either still at school or just about to leave. 

Yes I would hope, irrespective of the outcome of this referendum, that in Scotland and across the UK the standard voting age will be 16.

Quote
And 16 yr old kids that have never contributed to anything and expect their free university places (paid for by England) will continue whichever way they vote.


At the end of the day Stupid, Scotland contributes X amount to the UK.  Via the barnett formula we get X minus a big chuck back- ie our budget.  The Scottish Parliament then has to decide how to spend it's budget, the reason we have free education, free prescriptions, free care for the elderly etc is becuase how we in Scotland decide to spend our budget.

Quote
I reckon if the Scots vote no the English should get their own referendum to decide if we still want to subsidize them.


Don't be stupid now. :D

You may wish to ponder why the pound took a wee slide when we had a poll suggesting a YES victory. 

And as for the currency union, well I'll bet you if there is a YES result, very quickly both sides will be discussing a possible currency union.  The last thing that anybody needs is a run on the pound, and that's a real danger if there is no currency union. 


 :) :) :) YES YES YES  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Farjo on 12 September 2014, 06:34:41 pm
Scotland seems pretty pro-EU, so without them voting in an EU referendum there will be more chance of England/Wales/NIreland voting to leave. But perhaps your next question would be "How will leaving the EU affect me?".

As mentioned, if they vote Yes then we will get more Conservative governments, but if they vote No then perhaps the SNP's vote will collapse at the next general election, and Labour will pick up their seats, meaning more chance of Labour governments.

Our flag would change:

Union Jockless
Union Jockless
(You can see I spent a long time on this)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 September 2014, 06:45:15 pm
Quote
As mentioned, if they vote Yes then we will get more Conservative governments, but if they vote No then perhaps the SNP's vote will collapse at the next general election, and Labour will pick up their seats, meaning more chance of Labour governments.

I don't see that the SNP will take a hit post a possible NO vote.  And in any case with only 6 seats would anybody notice, apart from those of us in Scotland, if they did get wiped out?

Post a YES vote, I think you'll have the North of England and Wales screaming for constitutional change.  There would also be a massive debate around Trident.  Do you want build a new base for Trident plus replace the ageing subs and weapons system, would the remainder of the UK accept that massive economic hit, people going hungry for Trident?

I think post YES we'll see politics alive right across England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland like never before.


 :) :) :) YES YES YES  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Farjo on 12 September 2014, 07:14:08 pm
Didn't realise it was only six, but the next general election seems so close that 6 could make the difference.

If there's an EU referendum, and the vote is to stay within it, then I think UKIP's vote will collapse because their main policy (get out of EU) cannot be obtained any more. Although the SNP obviously has a more rounded policy set, having been in government an' all, still its main policy (get out of UK) cannot be obtained any more, so I should think support would dwindle.

Of course you're going to disagree as you're obviously a big SNP fan. We can only wait and see.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 September 2014, 07:33:00 pm
Quote
Didn't realise it was only six, but the next general election seems so close that 6 could make the difference.

If there's an EU referendum, and the vote is to stay within it, then I think UKIP's vote will collapse because their main policy (get out of EU) cannot be obtained any more. Although the SNP obviously has a more rounded policy set, having been in government an' all, still its main policy (get out of UK) cannot be obtained any more, so I should think support would dwindle.

Of course you're going to disagree as you're obviously a big SNP fan. We can only wait and see.

No I'm not a big fan of the SNP, I'm not a member of the SNP, and at the last general election I voted Labour.

I think the danger for Scotland, if we vote NO, is that we get a Tory government next year, a Tory government that has pledged an IN/OUT referendum on the EU.  Scotland risks not only another Tory government it does not want, but also being dragged out of the EU.  I say NO NO NO to that :eek

 :) :) :) YES YES YES  :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: The Gentleman Biker on 12 September 2014, 09:15:14 pm
.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slimwilly on 12 September 2014, 09:36:32 pm
Well if the rest of them follow a few who say "we will be better off" then let them,,i am sure the yes voters are all fools,,yes fools.


as a united nation all businessess have the same oppertunity to prosper,import,export , and under the UK banner .


Will other countries be as willing to do business with a  NEW state,country, stable,unstable,who knows,, what was wrong with being part of the UK?


Scotland seems to have a bad history of going it alone,,it is not part of the uk for no reason,,check the history books..


Alot of the "yes" voters are racial headlees chicken who don't know the mouth from there arse.


And if they cut loose,,then goodbye, enjoy yourselves.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: fazersharp on 12 September 2014, 09:53:12 pm
So back to real important stuff, if the Scots go will that mean that the weather forecasts will be quicker as they wont need to bother with Scotland like they don't now with Ireland
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Farjo on 12 September 2014, 10:07:57 pm
([url]http://www.sxoc.com/vbb/attachment.php?attachmentid=83857&d=1410550574[/url])

 :rollin


You have to be logged in to see an image from that site - all we get is the redX :thumbdown
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: The Gentleman Biker on 12 September 2014, 10:16:02 pm
Oh, balls. Ignore me then :p
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 12 September 2014, 10:47:08 pm
Seems to be an idea up in Scotland that they will remain in the EU if the vote is yes. I am sure that will not be the case. Scotland as an independant nation will have to apply for EU membership.
I believe it only takes one member state to block the application?? SPAIN WILL BLOCK THAT APPLICATION!!! 100% there is no way the Spanish will vote them in. Reason Barcelona and the Catalan regions will push even harder to splinter Spain, Madrid will not allow that to happen.

The SNP is going on about reveues from North Sea Oil. Are you actually believing that Scotland will dictate what goes on off the coast of Scotland concerning the resources/reserves of Oil&Gas of the coast. Take a wake pill here, BP & the Oil majors will dictate how much they may decide to pay a Scottish Government for the twindiling reserves off that coast. If you are foolish enough to believe that a Westminster government will give permission for Scotland to own and control the said revenues off thier coast, that will not happen.
Do you YES voters think that England and the rest of the UK will just quietly accept the loss of the wealth that the oil industry from the N Sea generates.

Better together, hope the vote runs close, may put the frighteners on the Westminster government, as in wake up here and spread the jobs and wealth around the rest of the UK.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 September 2014, 08:53:23 am
Look Scotland is currently a member of the EU.  Scotland is fully integrated into the EU.  If Scotland votes YES on Thursday, then on Friday Scotland will still be a member of the EU.  That is a fact.  And I don't think anybody seriously thinks for one minute that the EU will subsequently throw Scotland out of the EU.  It's not gonna happen.

And north sea oil?  Why should Scottish people continue to see this resource squandered by Westminster.  Don't forget that going by what we were told in the 70's it should have run out by now.  But of course thanks to the 30 year rule we know all about those lies, and yes the talk in the Westminster cabinet in the 70's of taking Scotland's oil by force in the event of independence.

Thatcher used Scotland's oil to put four million plus working class people on the dole.  Subsequently it's been squandered in immoral wars in Afghanistan, Libya and an illegal war in Iraq looking for WMD that everybody knew didn't exist.  Of course that's the other thing that Scotland's oil has been squandered on, WMD - Trident, and Scotland's gonna scrap it now.

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 13 September 2014, 01:38:18 pm
VNA, Scotland is not a member of the EU, Scotland as part of the UK is a member of the EU, vote to leave the UK and you will be out of the EU. Why have Spanish politicians already stated that they will oppose Scotlands application to become a member of the EU.
Scotland do not own the Oil&Gas in the North Sea. It is British oil and it was the British Government along with the Oil Majors who paid for the exploration and development of the NorthSea, Cast your mind back when Oil was discovered it was BP who found it and at that time BP was solely owned by the British Government. If you think that Westminster will just say okay have the oil we do not care one of us is in for a surprise.

I think there is a message here for the SNP in the attached photo lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 13 September 2014, 01:54:41 pm
Just to touch on the whole "EU" thing:

Lew, you have it bang on. Scotland (as a nation) is NOT part of the EU. Scotland is part of the UK, and it is the UK which holds a membership. I've heard the argument about Catalonia using our automatic membership as a precedent for themselves as they are trying for their own independance. It is different though, Scotland is and always has been it's own country, Catalonia is a region OF a country and hence no pre edence is set.

Let's take a practical approach to this problem. Let's say Scotland votes yes, and becomes it's own independent nation. Let's say we apply to join the EU through either article 48 or article 49 and we get refused to join.

This means that overnight - EVERY Scot who is working abroad in another EU country, and every EU member who is working here is Scotland WILL become an illegal immigrant overnight as the EU rules which allow them to migrate through the Euro zone will cease to be in effect.

This is no small minority, we are talking circa 400,000 people from what I have read. I think you will agree that even a small percentage of that would be too much work for any one police force to bear, both here and overseas. It is for this reason I think common sense will prevail and we will be granted entry.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 13 September 2014, 02:27:53 pm
Mick&VNA, Hope you do not think I am being anti Scottish, I am not, with a name like McColl how can I be, I am very pro British my brother lives in Crosshouse and all his family went through the Scottish education system , Dentist, Doctor and a Lawyer so not exactly numpties, my brother was director of finance for Strathclyde University all are voting NO.

On the question of EU membership surely Scotland will still have to apply and that process will not be done and dusted overnight.
Why seek EU memebrship, at least if Scotland did go their own way you can control your own borders and say who comes into the country. This is one of the biggest gripes going on within the UK as in the influx of foreign nationals from eastern europe.

If I was in the YES camp I would be pressing for closer ties with the likes of Norway rather than the EU. Cameron has said if re-elected he will hold a referendum on the UK /EU membership, personally I do not believe that will happen or it will be worded in such a way regardless of the outcome we will stay in the EU
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 September 2014, 03:19:31 pm
Quote
On the question of EU membership surely Scotland will still have to apply and that process will not be done and dusted overnight.

Lew we will be asking for continuation of our membership.  We will have at least two years to negotiate terms with the EU.  Scotland is already fully integrated in every possible respect in everything we do with the EU.   I like every Scot am an EU citizen.

A lot of people are voting YES becuase they do not want to be dragged out of the EU club by the English.

Quote
Are you actually believing that Scotland will dictate what goes on off the coast of Scotland concerning the resources/reserves of Oil&Gas of the coast.

Is the remainder of the UK going to ignore international law? 

Quote
Do you YES voters think that England and the rest of the UK will just quietly accept the loss of the wealth that the oil industry from the N Sea generates.

We've sat and watched that wealth, our wealth be wasted and squandered for decades. 
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 13 September 2014, 04:58:58 pm
Is the remainder of the UK going to ignore international law? 

It has never bothered the UK in the past to ignore international law, some spin doctor somewhere will find a loop hole.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 September 2014, 08:37:12 pm
Quote
It has never bothered the UK in the past to ignore international law, some spin doctor somewhere will find a loop hole.

OK you gotta point there Lew, I'll give you that one, I mean British Empire and all that, England just takes what it wants :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 13 September 2014, 08:51:08 pm
Mick&VNA, Hope you do not think I am being anti Scottish,

not at all mate, nowt wrong with a bit of healthy debate  :thumbup
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 13 September 2014, 08:58:52 pm
Quote
It has never bothered the UK in the past to ignore international law, some spin doctor somewhere will find a loop hole.

OK you gotta point there Lew, I'll give you that one, I mean British Empire and all that, England just takes what it wants :lol

VNA, Come on now, the British Empire and the making of it involved the Scots , The Irish and abley assisted by our fellow Celts the Welsh.

Just toss this one into the mix name one successful Pure born English General/Field Marshal
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: esetest on 13 September 2014, 09:20:34 pm
all this flag waving is horseshit as long as ordinary people keep fighting and blaming eachother then the wealthy and the politicians will keep there snouts in the trough .
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 September 2014, 01:06:04 am
Quote
VNA, Come on now, the British Empire and the making of it involved the Scots

Absolutely.  Just today the Scots hang their heads in shame, while the English mourn the loss of their glory days.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 14 September 2014, 07:36:27 am
all this flag waving is horseshit as long as ordinary people keep fighting and blaming eachother then the wealthy and the politicians will keep there snouts in the trough .

Estest,No one is under no illusion that the pigs will still have their snouts in the trough regardless of which way the vote goes. There are some decent politicians though not all rotten to the core , Frank Field to name one.

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Deefer666 on 14 September 2014, 07:42:26 am
It pisses me off that our governments can organise a referendum for Scotland's independence in such a sort space of time and yet still not give the UK population a referendum on independence from Europe after all these years. WTF?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: red98 on 14 September 2014, 08:00:36 am
agree with that deefer......its the "them and us game" there ok,looking after each other,its the hard working who pay their way that gets clobbered.....think we should stay together,strength in numbers and all that.....so what about our title...."Great Britain"....includes...england,wales,ireland and scotland.....!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 14 September 2014, 08:11:26 am
I think the Scots will just be exchanging one set of greedy, self-serving politicians for another. Ca plus ca change...

Oh, and VNA, don't think you can claim to speak for the English too. What makes you think I mourn the loss of empire?
And what's the sense of hanging your head in shame for the sins your forbears committed? Not your fault is it? We learn the lessons, and hopefully move on in a better direction.

Oh shit, I meant to stay out of this one  :\   :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: midden on 14 September 2014, 08:43:58 am

Thatcher used Scotland's oil to put four million plus working class people on the dole. 
There's a reason then for Scotland to hold it's head in shame then, it helped to put English and Welsh working class people on the dole.


It pisses me off that our governments can organise a referendum for Scotland's independence in such a sort space of time and yet still not give the UK population a referendum on independence from Europe after all these years. WTF?
Probably held off until after the Scottish referendum to get a fairer and more accurate result regarding EU.  That is presuming they intend to go ahead with EU referendum
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Deefer666 on 14 September 2014, 08:49:03 am
But the Scottish Yes party have not even finalised a constitution yet, nor have they submitted details of how their finances will work. I fear this has less to do with independence and more to do with certain politicians carving out an empire for themselves and getting rich in the process.


How can people vote yes if they do not know what they are actually saying yes to? seems half baked to me.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: midden on 14 September 2014, 10:11:58 am
Salmond has just said on the radio  'There are no 'no' votes only deferred yes's.'
So are we to understand that he will continue the campaign regardless of the decision made by the Scotish people until he gets independence and most importantly, his own way.
All rather pot kettle to me
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: richfzs on 14 September 2014, 10:48:19 am
I fear this has less to do with independence and more to do with certain politicians carving out an empire for themselves and getting rich in the process.


So are we to understand that he will continue the campaign regardless of the decision made by the Scotish people until he gets independence and most importantly, his own way.


From what I see, it's all about Salmond, absolutely. There are plenty of Scots folk genuinely want independence for its own sake, and that's fine - but for Salmond, it's about him him him. His style of politics is (has always been), when he doesn't like what someone tells him, he just ignores them until they go away (or don't go away, he doesn't seem to much care) - pretty much in the grand tradition of African dictators.


How can people vote yes if they do not know what they are actually saying yes to? seems half baked to me.


Yep, this too. "We'll work out the details later". I worry that they're not going to like the details - Salmond is going to find that the EU wont just roll over and give him what he wants, he'll be playing on a much bigger stage than he's used to, and he's just not a big enough politician for that. Grim times ahead, in the event of a yes vote (not that that isn't true if the vote is no!).
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 September 2014, 11:15:40 am
Sorry Nick I was of course talking in general terms and of course tongue in cheek.  But on a serious note why are the Queen's honours entitled things like Order of The British Empire.  Now I'm never gonna be offered one, but that is not a title I would wish to have bestowed upon me, nae thanks tae that.

Quote
How can people vote yes if they do not know what they are actually saying yes to?

What we will say YES to on Thursday is to have a government of our own choosing, to have policies put in place that we have voted for, rather than have a Tory government imposed upon us, a millionaires cabinet of Eton Bullingdon boys - the Westminster elite.  Labour?  New Labour = New Tories.

I think a lot of people in the rest of the UK don't understand how we got to this point.  A quick history lesson - For decades Westminster has been worried about the rise of nationalists in Scotland, particularly as Scotland struck it rich with North Sea Oil.  In 1997 they gave us The Scottish Parliament, giving us day to day control of a number of key areas ie devolution of select powers.  This parliament was designed to solve the Nationalist issue forever.  It was designed so that it was impossible for any one party to hold an overall majority.  A proportional representation parliament that delivered coalition government (you know the kind of government that the UK didn't believe in anyway but good enough for the Scots).  The nationalists policy is take what you can get when you can get it, so Scotland voted for it.  Naturally Labour, the party of Scotland came to power supported by the Lid Dems. And that should have been that - the Nationalists tied up for ever and a day - problem solved.   But Labour then took it's orders from London.  Time and time again The Scottish Labour Party caved into the big boys at Westminster and Scots didn't get the polices that Scottish Labour promised.   And it wasn't long before everybody could see that London called the shots. So this time it wasn't just the Nats telling London to piss off, it was all the Labour voters too.  So what happened?  The Scots eventually did what was supposed to be impossible, they voted in an SNP majority in a coalition parliament.  What's always in an SNP manifesto?  Yup a referendum on independence!  But that's not within our powers.  But considering what had just happened to Labour up here, London had no choice but to grant it.

 
Quote
So are we to understand that he will continue the campaign regardless of the decision made by the Scotish people until he gets independence and most importantly, his own way.

Not quite.  Yes he will.  But I'm not a member of the SNP, I voted Labour at the last general election.  This is not about Alex Salmond, it's not what Alex wants, it's about democracy, what people in Scotland want.  I've wanted it for over 20 years, I want it on Thursday, I'll always want it.  I do not want to be ruled over by an English Tory elite for one second more than I have to.

I think if it's YES on Thursday, something else will happen.  A lot of people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland will wake up on Friday morning and think - fucks sake look at what the Scots have just gone and done, they've rid themselves of the those scum bag fucking Tories bastards.  You might start thinking - we can do it too.

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 September 2014, 11:27:17 am
Quote
From what I see, it's all about Salmond, absolutely.

That's what the English press want you to believe.

That's what the Tory party wants you to believe.

That's what New Labour wants you to believe.

That's what Better Together wants you to believe.

I've got a letter here from the Labour Party.  It's addressed to me.  It says;

Dear Gareth - If you don't know - vote NO!  (condescending fuck wits - I mean fuck right off)

The name Alex Salmond in one short letter is spelt out 11 times.

So is it any surprised richfzs, from what you see, that you think this is all about Alex Salmond?

On Thursday there is a referendum on Scottish Independence.  It's not about the SNP, it's not about Alex Salmond, it's not a popularity rating or approval poll, it's asking people in Scotland, do you want Tory rule from Westminster, or do you want to elect your own government.


Oh yes Richfzs from what you see it's all about Alex Salmond.  I do understand that.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: darrsi on 14 September 2014, 11:30:08 am
http://bcove.me/r08toop4 (http://bcove.me/r08toop4)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: richfzs on 14 September 2014, 12:01:57 pm
Nah Andy, you misinterpret (and probably, I didn't phrase very well). As I said, there are plenty of Scots folk want independence for it's own sake - and I can understand that. I live in Newcastle, and feel more kinship with Edinburgh than I do London.


I mean, for Salmond, its all about him, and what he can do to further himself. I know 2 people pretty well, who are ardent Yes voters (one in Dunfermline, the other in Larbert), and both are of the opinion that they'll use Salmond to get their independence, and then at the next election, kick the slimy toe-rag into touch.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 September 2014, 12:16:05 pm
Quote
I mean, for Salmond, its all about him, and what he can do to further himself.

I don't think so.  I don't buy into that at all.    No he's not a Tommy Sheridan or a George Galloway, he's not some egotistical maniac.  Nor is he elitist or seek the limelight.  He's not interested in celebrity, just doing his job.

You know the whole might of the UK media have been trying to shoot this fox for over two decades now.  That's two decades of full on media abuse, two decades of scratching around try to destroy one man.  You don't survive that unless you have some real integrity. 

My prediction would be post YES vote, Wee Eck will lead the negotiations.  He'll then stand down.  Wee Nikki will then lead the SNP.

Of course the SNP will have a heck of a job holding itself together post YES.  Many a matter of conscience has been put aside, many a compromise, in order to move forward together and deliver this referendum.

The kind of people that are in the SNP, they do have discipline, incredible discipline, but such matters of conscience will only lie low for so long.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: richfzs on 14 September 2014, 12:48:24 pm
Well, maybe - you're naturally closer to it than I am.


I still get the feeling though, that if the vote is Yes, it will be despite Salmond, not because of him. Of course, politics should be about the policies not the people - but sadly that's not how the reality is, born out in your leaflet mentioning Salmond 11 times. I don't like him, but then I don't like Sturgeon either (or Cameron, or Miliband). Guess I just don't like politicians  :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 14 September 2014, 02:00:37 pm
If the vote is NO this issue should not be allowed to raise it's head again for another 50 years and that directive should come from the democrtically elected government of the UK. The money this has cost is just stupid the effect on the GBP in the markets is proof how unsettling this issue is.

I am surprised the Queen has not weighed into this debate, after all she is the one person most people hold in high regard.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Tmation on 14 September 2014, 03:13:40 pm
Salmond and Sturgeon, this whole things seems a bit fishy to me  :pokefun


Whatever happens, there will be millions of people unhappy on Friday morning as the vote is 50/50 by most polls.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 September 2014, 08:03:44 pm
Quote
If the vote is NO this issue should not be allowed to raise it's head again for another 50 years and that directive should come from the democrtically elected government of the UK.

Presumably you are taking the piss, but I'll bite anyway :D

If you believe in democracy then it's up to the people. 

YES or NO, I think politics will be different after Thursday.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 14 September 2014, 08:16:14 pm
YES or NO, I think politics will be different after Thursday.

Sad to say, after a honeymoon period, I doubt it  :\
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Stupid Luke on 14 September 2014, 08:36:06 pm
YES or NO, I think politics will be different after Thursday.

Sad to say, after a honeymoon period, I doubt it  :\


I agree with Lew. Regardless of outcome the Scots should be taxed for the cost of this referendum and the campaigns it entails. Why should the English payer higher taxes for a bunch of ingrates?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: goldfazer on 14 September 2014, 09:00:03 pm
My prediction - No will get 53 or 54%. Might even pop down the bookies ;)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 September 2014, 09:10:32 pm
 
Quote
My prediction - No will get 53 or 54%. Might even pop down the bookies ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url])


Thing is, NO needs 60% plus to bury YES for a while.

YES needs 51% to bury NO for good.   




 
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: richfzs on 14 September 2014, 09:14:49 pm
Ah, the old "keep asking the question till they you the right answer", eh? :rollin

Not disagreeing, you're spot on - but even salmond said today, this is it, he won't be asking again, if it turns out a no.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 September 2014, 09:39:35 pm
Quote
Not disagreeing, you're spot on - but even salmond said today, this is it, he won't be asking again, if it turns out a no.

He says "In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, this is a once in a generation opportunity for Scotland"

He could well be right, and I think that's what he has to say.  But at the end of the day it's up to the Scottish people.

If it's NO, then Westminster needs to do some quick thinking, otherwise 12 months down the line NO voters might think, wait a minute - we focced this up - and lo and behold before you know your heading towards another Indy ref.

Look I'm not a nationalist for sake of being a nationalist.  I don't do kilts and all that shite, no thanks tae that pish, I'm no walking aboot wi rose tinted spec on aw the time and I didnae hate the English, no one bit,  I'm just fed up with the neo liberal privatise everything agenda we've been following since 1979 and the election of that bitch. 

There's a general election next year in the UK.  There is a choice o three parties and they are all the same, it's Tory, Tory or Tory, some say there's a forth option, Nigel and his ultra Tories.  No Thanks, you know what I mean.  That's where Scotlands coming from.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 14 September 2014, 09:46:07 pm
There's a general election next year in the UK.  There is a choice o three parties and they are all the same, it's Tory, Tory or Tory, some say there's a forth option, Nigel and his ultra Tories.  No Thanks, you know what I mean.  That's where Scotlands coming from.

But anywhere you go in the world, people are fed up with their politicians. What makes you think Scotland would be any different Andy?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 14 September 2014, 10:02:03 pm
VNA , When I read some of the posts as in, Stupid Luke  his, comment (INGRATES) fecking hell glad he is not on a podium gobbing of about the NO vote. I know he has to be taking the piss here and trying to get a rise out of muppets like me.

I personally believe Scotland should stay in the Union. Fight for a better deal within the Westminster Parliment. When the next election comes along and the elected government have to rely on a bit of a leg up because they do not have a clear mandate to do what they like. Scottish MP's can extract their pound of flesh as in we will back you? but what is in it for Scotland.
For years the Unionsts did this to Tory governments when they where one short of a full house.

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: esetest on 14 September 2014, 11:05:42 pm
with the polls being so close, the undecided could well vote yes due to the threats coming from westminster and the media .
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 14 September 2014, 11:52:54 pm
It will never be a yes vote,why because the 16 year olds will be that busy playing on their x boxes etc!! the poles will have closed.  :rollin
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Razgruff on 15 September 2014, 01:15:38 am


http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/GettingInvolved/Petitions/islandgroups (http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/GettingInvolved/Petitions/islandgroups)


Independence for Shetland



Would have loved to see the results of this,
I wonder why the SNP Gov didn't support it lol

Quote
5 August 2014: The Committee agreed to close the petition under Rule 15.7 on the basis that that the Scottish Government has indicated that it does not support what the petition seeks
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 15 September 2014, 07:56:31 am
Quote
If the vote is NO this issue should not be allowed to raise it's head again for another 50 years and that directive should come from the democrtically elected government of the UK.

Presumably you are taking the piss, but I'll bite anyway :D

If you believe in democracy then it's up to the people. 

YES or NO, I think politics will be different after Thursday.

No I am not taking the piss and yes I do believe in democracy.

In one of your posts you said the NO vote needs 60% to make this go away (for a while)
The YES vote needs 51% . Explain to me how that is democratic, why is it not a done deal if the NO vote gets 51%.

To be honest the way the whole voting process over this issue is being run and organised it is like something from a Banana Republic.

Lowering the voting age to 16, what was wrong with keeping it at 18, not all Scots are allowed to vote, requirement was you have to live in Scotland to qualify or maintain a home there. I can accept that to a certain extent, but what if you are working abroad for a few years and have every intention of returning to live tehere again.
If you are any other nationality and live in Scotland you get to vote(assume they will be on the electoral roll)

Why should some Polish or Romainian have a vote


Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: hightower on 15 September 2014, 08:20:22 am
If it is a yes vote, I propose England should also monitor its borders. It can let any Scot in EXCEPT for Frankie Boyle. Hell, I'd support Scotland's cause if that was one of the stipulations of a yes vote.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Farjo on 15 September 2014, 10:15:34 am
"three separate referenda in Shetland, Orkney, and the Western Isles" Well that's just poor English, no wonder they closed it.

Will an independent Scotland be allowed to keep the English language? Will they be seeking a representative on the Oxford English Dictionary committee?


But back to Locksmith's original question, how will an IndScot affect him...
There's dire predictions that independent Scotland would go into a depression, which would mean much economic migration from Scotland to SE England - more overcrowding, higher prices, etc. Of course that's only if you believe the predictions.

If Scots vote Yes and are no longer part of the EU (you have to believe that one too) then Dave could kick the Scots out of England and meet his "Net migration back to the tens of thousands" promise. I wonder how many Scots there are in London, compared with eastern Europeans?

There's also been comment that after a Yes result the UK's place in the world will be diminished (can't see why losing 5 million people would do that mind). So if there's a Yes vote and Dave wins in May then his renegotiation of our relationship with the EU would be from a weaker position and he would be able to get fewer and weaker changes. The people that Dave will be negotiating with will no doubt have seen how he has caved in under pressure during this campaign and will likely give up less during any EU renegotiations. Therefore he would be less likely to persuade the voters to remain in the EU come 2017.

There was some comment that a successful No campaign would see Alistair Darling appointed as Shadow Chancellor, replacing Ed Balls. Well he's probably cocked that one up already but a Yes vote will definitely see Balls staying. Given that Labour seem likely to win in May a Yes vote means Ed Balls for Chancellor of the Exchequer for us.

And a Yes vote would mean protracted negotiations between Scotland and the rest of the UK. This would naturally take a lot of politicians' time so they would be less involved day-to-day affairs. Whether you think this is a good or bad thing is of course your own opinion.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 15 September 2014, 01:23:29 pm
 I will just advise those that think Scotland will be better off as an independent nation. Just look at the last part of the UK that became independent

The IRISH REPUBLIC, on the bones of it's arse and only within the last couple of years had to be given a financial lifeline by, guess who, the UK.

Some may say what about the Celtic Tiger their economy was one of the strongest in Europe until the crash. Well we all know now it was built on the lies of bankers etc!!
If you need to go and see a doctor in the Republic you had better have private healthcare in place, NHS in the Republic is practically non existant

Blah Blah we have Scottish oil, bullshit BP and the Oil Majors own and will control that oil.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: locksmith on 15 September 2014, 03:29:08 pm
Thanks Frazer. So in reality I'm not going to notice any real difference either way.

Maybe the BBC will stop telling me Scottish footie scores if it's a split from UK - hoorah!
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: His Dudeness on 15 September 2014, 04:08:28 pm
If the roles were reversed and England was in Scotland's position do you think English people would vote to become their own country?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 15 September 2014, 04:28:40 pm
The trouble with England voting to go it alone is that we would get rid of Scotland and Ireland but we would still be stuck with the county of Wales :pokefun
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: peterjca on 15 September 2014, 04:54:41 pm
Prime Minister Boris.

What an incredibly scary idea for the english.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 15 September 2014, 05:27:39 pm
Thanks Frazer. So in reality I'm not going to notice any real difference either way.

Maybe the BBC will stop telling me Scottish footie scores if it's a split from UK - hoorah!

Locksmith are you telling us you do not wait with baited breath on a Saturday evening for the Forfar 4 -0 Hamilton Academicals, Caladoian Thistle etc! :rollin
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 September 2014, 06:59:40 pm
Quote
I personally believe Scotland should stay in the Union. Fight for a better deal within the Westminster Parliment.


Come on Lew, what the fuck is the point?  You know come next year's general election, I'll have a choice of The Same Old Tories, The New Tories or The Third Rate Tories, oh hang on a minute, there's the wild card bet, Nigel Farage and his merry band of Ultra Tories.

Quote
But anywhere you go in the world, people are fed up with their politicians. What makes you think Scotland would be any different Andy?


Sometimes you come across an article that kinda sums things up for you.  A Spanish fella posted this link under one of ma Flickr snaps.  It's worth a read,

Labour Pains, Labour of Love by Irvine Welsh,

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/08/labour-pains-labour-of-love/ (http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/08/labour-pains-labour-of-love/) 
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 15 September 2014, 08:56:14 pm
If Mr. Welsh really wants to see an improvement in England too, couldn't a movement from the people of a UK do it better than a small population such as Scotland has? What he effectively seems to be saying is that it's time for a new party that genuinely represents the needs/desires of the people. I don't see how going independent will achieve this. That just looks more like "up yours England, we'll be ok Ja(o)ck", and any wonder if that attitude causes some bad feeling?

People who really want to see change for the better stick together don't they? United we stand and all that. And I don't mean from the point of view of the politicians and their cronies, but from the real people who slog away to earn for their families, and want to see a decent future for their children.

So I think Mr. Welsh's views are actually a cop out, as is Scottish independence. Because who in Scotland has laid out a vision for a truly brave new future, one that will inspire other nations? SNP? Scottish Labour? I don't think so, they're all too enmeshed in the current ways of doing politics to change.

Where I do believe he has a point, is that it is for the younger generations to initiate this "new politics". Because us older folks are too set in our ways; because we don't have the time or the energy to do so; because we don't have the vision required. And the problem for the younger generations is going to be that their education in the universities is coming from the old systems - so unless someone with real vision and fresh inspiration arises from there, things still won't change.

He mocks Tony Blair, but this is with 20:20 hindsight. When the term "New Labour" was coined, didn't we all think that this new approach was just what we'd get? And we all know where it finished up. Who's to say an independent Scottish government/political system will be able to resist any better the very same pressures, mostly external, that dragged Labour back to it's current toothless same-as-the-rest position?

Well Andy, you know your political history better than I do. Can you think of anyone we can take as an example of a true political visionary; someone who had the vision and also the courage and the sheer force of will to make change on the scale that's needed? Someone who set out the goal, the path, and took his nation there? Has there ever been such a politician in the world? Because yes, frankly, I'm cynical. Because you won't be just fighting back against the current UK system, but the world system. How will Scottish independence change that? The world will only say to Scotland, "move aside mere drop of water, let the ocean pass".
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: unfazed on 15 September 2014, 10:02:35 pm
Apparently it the Scots vote YES the British government will take the Loch Ness monster and put it in Wast Water to entice more tourist to that side of the lake district  :eek
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 15 September 2014, 10:37:01 pm
Quote
I personally believe Scotland should stay in the Union. Fight for a better deal within the Westminster Parliment.


Come on Lew, what the fuck is the point?  You know come next year's general election, I'll have a choice of The Same Old Tories, The New Tories or The Third Rate Tories, oh hang on a minute, there's the wild card bet, Nigel Farage and his merry band of Ultra Tories.

Quote
But anywhere you go in the world, people are fed up with their politicians. What makes you think Scotland would be any different Andy?


Sometimes you come across an article that kinda sums things up for you.  A Spanish fella posted this link under one of ma Flickr snaps.  It's worth a read,

Labour Pains, Labour of Love by Irvine Welsh,

[url]http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/08/labour-pains-labour-of-love/[/url] ([url]http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/08/labour-pains-labour-of-love/[/url])


The point is, as Eton boy says it will be a painful Divorce. Sadly that statement said to me Scotland will pay a high price for that divorce. 
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 September 2014, 10:48:19 pm
 Nick Scotland has voted Tory for 6 years out of 68.

 We've had Tory governments for 38 out of 68 years.

 Now the Labour Part in England resembles the Tory party.  The Lid Dems have jumped into bed with the Tories and helped them introduce The Bedroom tax and cut benefits. There are three Tory parties in England.

Sure I know people in England are pissed off as pissed off every bit as we are, but England wants to turn to Farage's fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists, in England people seem to think the answer to their woes are ultra Tories who want even more tax cuts and tax breaks for the rich.

The reason we have this referendum is because every time The Scottish Labour Party tried to oppose private money, privatisation and put forward decent social reform, well Tony and then Gordon were on the phone saying - no you fucking don't.  So folks turned to the SNP, the SNP ran a minority administration (cos the Lid Dems refused to join in coalition with a party they actually had a lot in common with).  The SNP did a good job, consensus politics worked too,  so at the next election people dropped Labour like a stone.  The SNP did the impossible and won a majority - politics had imploded in Scotland.   The SNP are telling Labour voters, much to the fury of Scottish Labour, vote YES and claim your Labour party back.

What do we do, reject this and say, oh well, lets just keep getting dragged in a direction we don't wanna go.  Vote NO and say yes to more inequality and food banks etc etc.
Welsh is right, the UK worked well for a couple of decades or so, but then it was back to fuck the peasants.

Politics is for all, I wasn't brought up in the tradition that Irvine Welsh was, I was brought up to be British and vote Tory.   I started work in 1986 for the SSEB, right from the off my pay got screwed by Thatcher to suit her YTS scheme (2 years of my apprenticeship was processed as YTS), then I lost more money to the poll tax (trialled in Scotland), then she announced our privatisation.  Jesus, just out of school I got fucked over several times by the Tories in a very short space of time.    I never did vote Tory, and by 1997 I was thinking, sure I'll vote YES YES for the Scottish Parliament but Salmond better fucking be right that we will find a way out of this trap.  And stone me did he!  So it's bugged me for years, why has it taken so many years for good clever people like Irvine Welsh to wise up.

Remember if we win this it'll be with solid trade union Labour voters voting YES.  I still can't believe it, believe that there really is a chance.

And of wiseing up, waking up, I think it'll take Scottish Independence to wake England up.  But if we fuck it up, well it'll be our fuck up.   No more whinging, no more blaming others.   
I'm fed up with Tory rule.  I'm voting YES!
 
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 15 September 2014, 11:47:49 pm

Remember if we win this it'll be with solid trade union Labour voters voting YES.  I still can't believe it, believe that there really is a chance.

It was the Solid Trade Unions that fucked the country up in the first place. Upper Clyde Ship Builders, for years with their strikes , late delivery of ships and build quality was a fucking joke. Trust me I can comment on the quality of ships built on the Clyde , Belfast and also the Tyne ship yards absolute shite.


Between the Shipyards, Mine workers, Dockers, Steel workers and Car makers, people point the finger at Thatcher and blame her for the dismise of british manufacturing, blame the unions and the Scotiish unions played a big part. Perhaps one of the reasons Thatcher basically ingnored the Industrial regions of the UK.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 16 September 2014, 06:37:32 am
Sigh. Well, there was a bit of both wasn't there Lew? And there's the rub for me. This is why I don't usually get involved in politics or political debate. Both sides are as bad as each other, and when challenged, they both put the blinkers on and say, "no, we were right, they were wrong" and it all just snowballs in to a big slanging match. The members of the unions always seem to end up being led by yet more self-serving fat cats; just that these ones call themselves socialists, then get rich off the backs of their brothers, then get their own agendas. How true that money corrupts!

I do see your point of view Andy. Maybe I'm even a little bit jealous that England can't vote for independence from it's parliamentary system. But in reality, I don't think it's that clear cut. Yes, we need a new approach to politics, things have got stale and the voters have turned away. I just don't see any effective alternative for us down here right now.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slimwilly on 16 September 2014, 06:48:22 am
You will all start voting Conservative or Labour when the Muslim party put up a Westminter party  :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: bigbluebear on 16 September 2014, 07:34:32 am
You will all start voting Conservative or Labour when the Muslim party put up a Westminter party  :lol

You're not wrong there Slim.....we already have Muslim MP's and with our immigration back door wide open they'll get the vote for sure
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 16 September 2014, 07:44:37 am
You will all start voting Conservative or Labour when the Muslim party put up a Westminter party  :lol

Sharia law mate that is the way to go, caught stealing , chop yer hand off, Caught abusing children in areas like Rotterham, Rochdale etc!! will bring the death penaltiy.

It should be made  compulsory to vote, on the ballot paper there should be a section were you state you do not support any political party if that is your choice.

Thatcher wielded the axe that Scargill sharpened for her. I am pretty sure the decline in relations between Scotland & England started to speed up during those years.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Farjo on 16 September 2014, 10:13:50 am
You will all start voting Conservative or Labour when the Muslim party put up a Westminter party  :lol
You're not wrong there Slim.....we already have Muslim MP's and with our immigration back door wide open they'll get the vote for sure
They've probably got a better grasp of English than you!

 :oops Nowadays it's politically incorrect to call someone a 'bigot' :tape

Maybe in 2016 London will have a Mayor who is Muslim. That's a good way of saying foc-u to the rest of the country :woot (but I think Tess'll win it.)


:) :) :) Independence for London! :) :) :)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: fireblake on 16 September 2014, 12:35:09 pm
I still don't see the fascination with being in Europe? What's racist about UKIP? Maybe some of the party have been racist in the past but people change their views. I have a friend who was staunch National front as a teenager and now is a missionary in Africa. I don't blame you for voting SNP given the choices but the only time I've ever voted Labour was when King Tony became Prime minister. Like you, i think its time for a good political shake up. Our local councillor is UKIP and is the only politician i've seen out and about other than election time, he's a local lad and working tirelessly for our community.
I'm all for debate and have an open mind but all i hear is the same old same old.
On another note, I've just spent nearly £500 on a driver CPC so i can prove i can drive my truck after 27 years of driving HGV's. The French brought this in a few years ago and guess what, the UK is the only country implementing it. At the moment anyway.


Mickey
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: bigbluebear on 16 September 2014, 02:42:47 pm
You will all start voting Conservative or Labour when the Muslim party put up a Westminter party  :lol
You're not wrong there Slim.....we already have Muslim MP's and with our immigration back door wide open they'll get the vote for sure
They've probably got a better grasp of English than you!

 :oops Nowadays it's politically incorrect to call someone a 'bigot' :tape

Maybe in 2016 London will have a Mayor who is Muslim. That's a good way of saying foc-u to the rest of the country :woot (but I think Tess'll win it.)


:) :) :) Independence for London! :) :) :)

They'll have a better idea of screwing the benefits system than me never mind the language
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Farjo on 16 September 2014, 09:53:07 pm
If you say so mate :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 16 September 2014, 10:04:56 pm
If you say so mate :lol

Can we just stick to the debate , never mind nit picking one s spelling or grammar
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Farjo on 16 September 2014, 10:22:15 pm
 :lol The whole thread is a hijack! Locksmith just wanted to know how the result would affect him :) Interesting that you're happy with the anti-muslim hijack but not my throw-away comment on English :\
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: JoeRock on 16 September 2014, 10:54:31 pm
Lloyds and Bank of Scotland have now confirmed that in the event of independence, they're going to move their offices to London.


Just how a country of 5 million people thinks its going to survive entirely on a few gallons of oil, without much else of an economy I don't know.


London and the south east would have a better chance of independence!
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 September 2014, 11:35:59 pm
Quote
It was the Solid Trade Unions that fucked the country up in the first place. Upper Clyde Ship Builders, for years with their strikes , late delivery of ships and build quality was a fucking joke. Trust me I can comment on the quality of ships built on the Clyde , Belfast and also the Tyne ship yards absolute shite.

Do you wanna ken a country that has Solid Trade Unions?  Germany.  It has a strong unionised labour force, some of the best terms and working conditions in the world.  And you know what, they protected their industry.  Think of cars, VW, AUDI, BMW, Porsche.  Wages terms and conditions that workers in the UK can only dream of now.

Sir John Harvey Jones, said, I think;

There is no such thing as bad industrial relations - only bad management.

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 17 September 2014, 12:05:24 am
VNA , The big difference with the Germans is they had to rebuild their country after the war , as did we , The difference was they knew what they were doing. The cars you mentioned are all quality products. The Germans take a pride in what they do. For years we just produced shite.

Surely one of the best strikes to take place in the UK car industry was the FORD Plant at Halewood on Merseyside, I think they went on strike because there were to many cats running wild around the factory.

Thankfully we now seem to have decent industrail relatiions in the UK,, The car industry is going from strength to strength, both management and the workforce realise they have to produce a decent product on budget and on time.

I have to admit though yesterdays statement by the 3 muppets, that if there is a NO vote they will give additionally powers to the Scottish Parliment. How fecking condesending is that? To me that smacks of bribery and also an admission that perhaps they accept the playing field needs to be levelled some what.
I would have a lot more respect if the 3 men making this pledge actually had any standing/respect in the UK as a whole, Nick Clegg, David Cameron, Miliband is such a statesman I cannot even remember his fist name
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Pat on 17 September 2014, 12:12:18 am
Quote
It was the Solid Trade Unions that fucked the country up in the first place. Upper Clyde Ship Builders, for years with their strikes , late delivery of ships and build quality was a fucking joke. Trust me I can comment on the quality of ships built on the Clyde , Belfast and also the Tyne ship yards absolute shite.

Do you wanna ken a country that has Solid Trade Unions?  Germany.  It has a strong unionised labour force, some of the best terms and working conditions in the world.  And you know what, they protected their industry.  Think of cars, VW, AUDI, BMW, Porsche.  Wages terms and conditions that workers in the UK can only dream of now.

Sir John Harvey Jones, said, I think;

There is no such thing as bad industrial relations - only bad management.

Ironic that in your defence of the workers, you cite someone that turfed a third of the ICI workforce onto the dole in order to boost ICI's profits....
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 17 September 2014, 12:24:52 am
Quote
It was the Solid Trade Unions that fucked the country up in the first place. Upper Clyde Ship Builders, for years with their strikes , late delivery of ships and build quality was a fucking joke. Trust me I can comment on the quality of ships built on the Clyde , Belfast and also the Tyne ship yards absolute shite.

Do you wanna ken a country that has Solid Trade Unions?  Germany.  It has a strong unionised labour force, some of the best terms and working conditions in the world.  And you know what, they protected their industry.  Think of cars, VW, AUDI, BMW, Porsche.  Wages terms and conditions that workers in the UK can only dream of now.

Sir John Harvey Jones, said, I think;

There is no such thing as bad industrial relations - only bad management.

Ironic that in your defence of the workers, you cite someone that turfed a third of the ICI workforce onto the dole in order to boost ICI's profits....

Agreed, instead of trying to compete we just accepted defeat and the industries vanished over to Korea, Vietnam and even Japan
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: fireblake on 17 September 2014, 01:52:24 am
(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/16/f663dbfa1f05738f6242e43577ccd4d8.jpg)I'm having a wee dram to show solidarity to my Scottish friends.  I hope the vote goes whatever way you want it. All the best.   Mickey
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 17 September 2014, 06:52:34 am
Man after my own heart Mickey. Think I'll join you in a wee half tonight :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 17 September 2014, 07:59:55 am
This was taken when I was visiting my brother who lives in Crosshouse not far from Kilmarnock.
Which one is looking for light at the end of the tunnel? Or could it be if you vote YES one could get shit on.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: esetest on 17 September 2014, 10:16:23 am
If your definition of decent industrial relations is if you don't like it foc off there is all ways some else  to do it and probably cheaper , then we are all in the shit .
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: His Dudeness on 17 September 2014, 01:01:48 pm
I just hope the people voting vote whatever way they feel is right and that they aren't scared into going against what they believe in whatever it is. It would obviously suit everyone else if ye stayed together because it's stability but it's not about everyone else it's about what the Scottish want for their country so good luck to them. It's a tough decision.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: chris.biker on 17 September 2014, 06:27:45 pm
Only taken a glancing interest in this and had no idea which way I would vite if I was Scottish but I have just been listening to the news and the chap mentioned that the voter total in Scotland is only 4% of the total number of voters in the UK. This statement set my mind racing and a quick look at the population figures on line my maths puts the scottish population at 8% of the Uk. So having just watched a chap on a ferry delivering one lot of ballet papers and talk of the votes being collected by airplanes it strikes me it is a large country to be giving the full Uk services ( roads' Hospital services' postal system etc) the per head could be very high. I think if I was Scottish I would have to be very pissed off with the UK to want to risk breaking away.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 17 September 2014, 06:40:48 pm
Only taken a glancing interest in this and had no idea which way I would vite if I was Scottish but I have just been listening to the news and the chap mentioned that the voter total in Scotland is only 4% of the total number of voters in the UK. This statement set my mind racing and a quick look at the population figures on line my maths puts the scottish population at 8% of the Uk. So having just watched a chap on a ferry delivering one lot of ballet papers and talk of the votes being collected by airplanes it strikes me it is a large country to be giving the full Uk services ( roads' Hospital services' postal system etc) the per head could be very high. I think if I was Scottish I would have to be very pissed off with the UK to want to risk breaking away.

Well said Chris
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 September 2014, 06:42:40 pm
Quote
Thankfully we now seem to have decent industrail relatiions in the UK,, The car industry is going from strength to strength, both management and the workforce realise they have to produce a decent product on budget and on time.

Pretty much the same workers, the same unions but has changed is the management. The car plants in the UK, generally have management that respect the workforce.

Which brings us full circle.  Tomorrow the establishment of The United Kingdom will lose a big chunk of their union and it will be primarily down to arrogance and a lack of respect.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: peterjca on 17 September 2014, 07:21:13 pm
Only taken a glancing interest in this and had no idea which way I would vite if I was Scottish but I have just been listening to the news and the chap mentioned that the voter total in Scotland is only 4% of the total number of voters in the UK. This statement set my mind racing and a quick look at the population figures on line my maths puts the scottish population at 8% of the Uk. So having just watched a chap on a ferry delivering one lot of ballet papers and talk of the votes being collected by airplanes it strikes me it is a large country to be giving the full Uk services ( roads' Hospital services' postal system etc) the per head could be very high. I think if I was Scottish I would have to be very pissed off with the UK to want to risk breaking away.

And yet you're happy for a handful of eton toffs and banksters to hold the UK's 60 million population to ransom?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Simon.Pieman on 17 September 2014, 07:43:50 pm
  Tomorrow the establishment of The United Kingdom will lose a big chunk of their union and it will be primarily down to arrogance and a lack of respect.


 I think a large chunk of the union will leave Scotland in droves to live South of the border.
Good luck with whatever currency you end up with by the way. Whatever it is will devalue nicely and soon enough I'll be looking to buy another holiday home in Tomintoul for next to nothing.
 I might be sounding unkind, but then I apparently have a lack of 'respect' so I might as well.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 September 2014, 09:31:06 pm
Quote
I think a large chunk of the union will leave Scotland in droves to live South of the border.

I doubt it.  But is for sure, many more will want to live in Scotland.  And many Scots will to come hame to help build their nation.

Quote
Good luck with whatever currency you end up with by the way.

It will be the pound, it will be most likely in a currency union.

Quote
Whatever it is will devalue nicely and soon enough I'll be looking to buy another holiday home in Tomintoul for next to nothing.

And that's why it will be a currency union, as no currency union risks devaluation or worse still a run on the pound.

If you look up the McCrone report you'll might understand why most in Scotland don't want their own currency.

Quote
I might be sounding unkind, but then I apparently have a lack of 'respect' so I might as well.

Ah didnae ken you are a Bullingdon Club boy.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: chris.biker on 17 September 2014, 10:46:25 pm
Only taken a glancing interest in this and had no idea which way I would vite if I was Scottish but I have just been listening to the news and the chap mentioned that the voter total in Scotland is only 4% of the total number of voters in the UK. This statement set my mind racing and a quick look at the population figures on line my maths puts the scottish population at 8% of the Uk. So having just watched a chap on a ferry delivering one lot of ballet papers and talk of the votes being collected by airplanes it strikes me it is a large country to be giving the full Uk services ( roads' Hospital services' postal system etc) the per head could be very high. I think if I was Scottish I would have to be very pissed off with the UK to want to risk breaking away.

And yet you're happy for a handful of eton toffs and banksters to hold the UK's 60 million population to ransom?


I get your point, politics I am not interested in doing the job myself so its done by others, there is a lot could be said on this point alone the only thing I will say is the BRITISH have a habit of fighting back if politicians go to far in the wrong direction. The saddest thing in my opinion is how the British population have allowed themselves to be so stupid and unrealistic with their money, the easy credit so you can have it today sod tomorrow. The result is that the UK is in  debt so deep it will take generations to clear it, no one is even trying. So Scotland votes for independence if they get it I hope the funds are there to pay for the life style they wish for.
If they have it sussed they will pay high taxes and go with out while they build up an infrastructure that produces free energy Ie wind turbines, Hydro, wave and tidal electric generating plants. this will produce wealth and once it rolls in start spend. I wonder how that will go down as an idea?
I also believe that the UK is allowed to continue in its indebted state because it is so stable it is a preferred home for the rich and wealthy, lets hope if I m right that it stays stable. 



Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 September 2014, 02:16:12 am
A sign o things tae come;

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5586/15272897502_ce8f3f755f_c.jpg)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 18 September 2014, 07:51:21 am
Thankfully the yes vote will take a pounding today and this stupid idea of scottish independence will be a thing of the past.

The only way to is to vote NO
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Phil on 18 September 2014, 09:01:22 am

Thing is, NO needs 60% plus to bury YES for a while.

YES needs 51% to bury NO for good.   
 

That's the worry, a narrow margin for either side will leave a lot of people pissed off. Hopefully the winning side will get more than the other + non voters total.

If Scotland do vote yes, I say good luck to them. I think unless you have lived in Scotland its hard to appreciate exactly what its like.

The one thing I really don't get is why the YES party want to keep the £. Scotland is voting for an independent country and countries have their own currencies, unless they vote to join the EU and use the €. Or they just use a currency as their own but cant control it, like Montenegro/Kosovo and a fair few using US $.

Nothing to stop Scotland using the £, but as an independent country should their policies be able to control it? One of many things to sort out before March 2016.

Old 'unions' and their original currency and the new independent countries and their currencies.

 Czechoslovakia - Koruna
 CZ = Koruna
 Slovakia = Euro

 Yugoslavia - Dinar
 Slovenia = Euro
 Croatia = Kuna
 Montenegro = Euro
 Serbia = Dinar
 Bosnia and Herzegovina = Bosnia and Herzegovina convertible mark (catchy name)
 Kosovo = Euro
 Macedonia  =  Denar   

 USSR - Ruble
 Russia = Russian Ruble
 Ukraine = Hryvnia
 Latvia = Lats
 Lithuania = Litas
 Latvia = Euro (was Kroon)
 Belarus = Belarusian Ruble
 Georgia = Lari

I didn't look up what all those countries used immediately after the splits.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: locksmith on 18 September 2014, 10:16:24 am
Another question that springs to mind, why is the government so desperate to hang on to Scotland?

They've got their  own parliament, laws, nhs and bank holidays even!! yet government has pledged even more powers (no idea what).

So even with a NO vote it would appear to the average Englishman that they are not part of the union anyway, so what gives?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 September 2014, 10:18:34 am
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3906/15084817419_9e7745c31c_c.jpg)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 18 September 2014, 12:12:56 pm
Another perspective to consider.

At the moment in the UK we hate all the Europeans coming over and getting the benefits etc. Things have been put in place to stop them arriving and claiming benefits immediately now. If the vote results in a "Yes", Scots will not be free to move south and start (or continue) claiming benefits while they look for jobs. Could save the English a few quid.
In addition, the Poles, Slovaks, Romanians etc come over and work for peanuts instaed of the English going rate. At the moment, the Scots come down and expect the going rate. Will that change so they start accepting the European rates instead? Again, could save us a few quid though I haven't found any Scottish bricklayers that are as industrious (or as cheap) as the Poles yet.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 September 2014, 01:07:04 pm
Quote
If the vote results in a "Yes", Scots will not be free to move south and start (or continue) claiming benefits while they look for jobs. Could save the English a few quid.

How do you figure that?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Phil on 18 September 2014, 02:43:42 pm
  If the vote results in a "Yes", Scots will not be free to move south and start (or continue) claiming benefits while they look for jobs. Could save the English a few quid.
 

I doubt that very much. As part of the current Common Travel Area with the UK and Republic of Ireland, I assume and would hope that that stays the same. I would be appalled if it gets to that state of affairs, this is the UK ffs.
What about all the current Scots residing in England/Wales/NI? Are you suggesting we have some sort of ethnic cleansing and boot them out?

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 18 September 2014, 03:37:02 pm
Reading Locksmiths&BBROWN1664 posts, do you really believe that it is the ENGLISH(people) that are surppporting the Scots and the rest of the UK.
Fact it is British&Foreign business that is supporting the UK , those businesses just happen to be based in and around the financial sector of London. In those businesses you will find a lot of Scots, Welsh, N Irish and other Nationalities working in that sector.

I am sure they are adding to the success of those businesses along with there English co workers.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slimwilly on 18 September 2014, 05:16:06 pm
I bet there are thousands of scottish people working inthe city who are totally ashamed and embarressed at the behavior of the yes vote clan.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Looney tune on 18 September 2014, 05:36:21 pm
Why are the polling stations issuing pencils to mark your vote, very fishy, pun intended.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 18 September 2014, 05:39:47 pm
Quote
If the vote results in a "Yes", Scots will not be free to move south and start (or continue) claiming benefits while they look for jobs. Could save the English a few quid.

How do you figure that?

Oops. Missed a few words out.

If the vote results in a "Yes", Scots will not be free to move south and start (or continue) claiming benefits immediately while they look for jobs. They will have to wait a number of months like other EU immigrants. Could save the English a few quid.

Better?


:pokefun
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 September 2014, 05:56:01 pm
I guess BBROWN1664 has already completed the negotiations between Scotland and the remainder of the UK ahead of the referendum result!      :rolleyes

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 18 September 2014, 06:21:00 pm
I guess BBROWN1664 has already completed the negotiations between Scotland and the remainder of the UK ahead of the referendum result!      :rolleyes

BBROWN, is either a wind up merchant or BNP.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 September 2014, 06:51:17 pm
Ach time fae another snap;

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5555/15273572391_0a746f9e65_c.jpg)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 18 September 2014, 08:39:38 pm
well, I've been and cast my vote. Can't wait to see what the result is tomorrow morning. I hope its how I have voted, but if not, I wont be that angry and will of course respect it. Can't say anymore than that really.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 September 2014, 08:58:54 pm
Absolutely!  I'm knackered was up late last night taking daft photos on a beach in North Ayrshire.

Think I'll go and have a wee kip, then pop down to our local YES office, assuming it manages to stay open and catch the result coming in.

But yes will be celebrating whatever the result, just holding this referendum means we have already achieved the impossible.

(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3903/15276102481_e36cdc5744_c.jpg)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: unfazed on 18 September 2014, 09:20:36 pm
Yes  for  F re ed o m :thumbup

Must be watching to much Braveheart  :)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 18 September 2014, 09:41:05 pm
Yes  for  F re ed o m :thumbup

Must be watching to much Braveheart  :)

talking of Braveheart... Im genuinely shocked that was not televised at some point this week.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: unfazed on 18 September 2014, 09:57:34 pm
Me to, I really thought it would be have been shown at least once, :'( to inspire a few  :)

Great film even if it did stretch the truth a little bit.

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: mickvp on 18 September 2014, 10:18:06 pm
Right well, the polls have now closed - the counting begins. Whatever the result - its Friday tomorrow and my bike is getting Ivanised :D

Can we all be pals again and take the piss out of each other :lol


Oh, and here is the Live updates for anyone who will be checking in with interest:

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/live-stream/ (http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/live-stream/)

:)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: midden on 19 September 2014, 12:54:04 am
Not sure why the bbc are bigging up the massive turn out.  It's not like a general election, this is too big for anyone not to vote and those who didn't must be mad
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 19 September 2014, 06:38:39 am

Can we all be pals again


If it's a No, no bloody way; you're all a bunch of traitors and now you shall be England's slaves, MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

 :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 19 September 2014, 07:10:19 am
Looks like a no, then. So does everything stay the same, or do we ALL now fight for something better in Britain?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slimwilly on 19 September 2014, 07:15:30 am
Well when i next visit Scotland i now know that 60% of folks will truly be friendly honest jocks.as for the other(some even racist) then iguess they will be even more bloody rude
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 19 September 2014, 07:20:12 am
Slimwilly, do you ever think the problem might be with you . Any time I have been in Scotland I have always forund the Scots to be friendly , helpful and a good laugh.
Well done the NO campaign. This issue should be put to bed npw for at least 50 years
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slimwilly on 19 September 2014, 07:48:30 am
LEW i am everyones friend, i love scotland.my meaning was i hope the yes voters do not become More racist or moany
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Frosties on 19 September 2014, 08:06:01 am

Can we all be pals again


If it's a No, no bloody way; you're all a bunch of traitors and now you shall be England's slaves, MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

 :lol


 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: noggythenog on 19 September 2014, 08:30:39 am
Looks like a no, then. So does everything stay the same, or do we ALL now fight for something better in Britain?


Im with you Nick on this one, if i'd been able to vote then i would have said Yes but the people in Scotland have spoken and union it is......my facebook is flooded with sore losers now but they miss the point i think that ok "they" havent escaped Westminster this time but the whole process has shown how disgruntled the whole of the UK is with Westminster & in that sense we really are united........but then we're all good at saying what we dont like........ie we all dont like Jimmy Saville and we all dont like Labour & Tories............but what is there to like.........Simon Cowell & UKIP :\ ......what sort of choice is that.....none!


The UK people now need to pull their fingers out because the pressure is now on and it's time for the many critics of the Scottish to do something themselves about the political elite instead of criticising others for trying.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 19 September 2014, 08:39:29 am

Im with you Nick on this one,
The UK people now need to pull their fingers out because the pressure is now on and it's time for the many critics of the Scottish to do something themselves about the political elite instead of criticising others for trying.

Right, that's it then; STRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIKE!!   :lol
 
Thing is, me and lots like me ( :eek  there are lots like me?  :eek    :lol )don't have the savvy to do anything. Will someone now come out of all this who can lead everyone against the status quo and start a movement for a new politics in this country? I don't see any likely candidates at the moment   :\
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 19 September 2014, 08:48:55 am
Quote
BBROWN, is either a wind up merchant or BNP.

You guys are slacking. Didn't the  :pokefun give it away?

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: bigbluebear on 19 September 2014, 09:45:54 am
Will 'Flower of Scotland' ever be sang again by the no voters
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 September 2014, 09:57:42 am
Can somebody tell me what to vote in May 2015?

Same old Tories

The New Tories

The Third rate Tories

Nigel's Ultra Tories.

Labour defeated in Inverclyde, Defeated in Glasgow.  Stunning! :D :D :D :D :D :D

44.6 of the vote, I'm pissed, um in both senses of the word, struggling to type here,just back in the door, can barely stand up, disappointed but happy.    It's game on.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: bigbluebear on 19 September 2014, 10:05:54 am
Whatever the vote there will be a few mini riots in the streets....just me so far in mine  :lol   

"Saturday: British forces occupy Edinburgh and Glasgow. Salmond is arrested. Scottish parliament is dissolved. Martial law is declared......all by the power of Westminster
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: midden on 19 September 2014, 10:28:16 am
Time to become part of One country like Merseyside and Kent are. Yes keep ya kilts, bagpipes and Scottish traditions, like the Beatles to Liverpool they bring tourism.  ;)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 September 2014, 10:35:27 am
Fuck yer pissy kilts, fuck yer bagpipes, fuck yer pissy tradition.

Whit we need tae dae, is hud oor heids high an cairy on.

Didnae let this pass.  Fae a joke tae 44.6%   Keep gaun!

44.6% didnae give up now, didnae let that go.

YES!

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 September 2014, 10:42:29 am
OK I'm pissed :lol

But I'm happy.

We carry on.  And I'm sorry, we let you all down, because oor change is your change. 

Fight for change! 

Didnae worry one mare dram will finish me off. :rollin

Love you Scotland, Love you England, Love you Wales, Love you Northern Ireland.  Hate capitalism, hate Tories.

Goodnight.  Umm good morning.  Fuck me, what a campaign. :sun

Oh, everybody - keep it upright.

Love and peace

Very :evil Nasty :evil Andy! :) :eek :rolleyes :lol   
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: locksmith on 19 September 2014, 12:14:53 pm
I can hear him snoring from here
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slimwilly on 19 September 2014, 12:44:31 pm
Rebuild the wall
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: unfazed on 19 September 2014, 12:46:37 pm
Since the Yes vote failed, you should now look to scrap the "one man one vote system" and go to "the Proportional Representation Voting System" this will ensure that only those voted by the majority will get into power. In the present system you could and have a government that majority of the people did not vote for. 
Unfortunately Scotland will always be at a disadvantage since there are 10 times more people eligible to vote in England than in Scotland.
I believe fear of the unknown won in the end, there was a lot of scaremongery going on in the last few weeks.

Why not do like they did in a referendum or two we had in the Republic of Ireland, keep voting till they get it right :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: bigbluebear on 19 September 2014, 12:46:54 pm
Rebuild the wall

Every time I pass it I donate another brick to it
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 September 2014, 12:49:14 pm
Quote
I can hear him snoring from here

I wish.  Something wrong with the whisky today.    Not yet, but soon.

Keep it upright! :)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: peterjca on 19 September 2014, 01:14:46 pm
Quote
I can hear him snoring from here

I wish.  Something wrong with the whisky today.    Not yet, but soon.

Keep it upright! :)


Hiv ye sobered up noo? Ye're spikking some sense fan p*ssed ye ken.

I'm disappointed (would have voted Yes if I still lived there -- will be going back to the homeland in the future).

So westminster have a few months to put their promises on paper. Can't see how that can possibly happen. There's so much complexity involved.

As for May 2015... I'm sure Cameron will be ousted then, if not by his own party. Millipede is an empty container of vacuous platitudes and still seems unaware that labour will not regain their foothold in Scotland. Clegg and co will be wiped off the face of the earth. Farage will be nowhere. Another hung parliament of idiotic, self-interested and out-of-touch morons beckons.

However, the people's assault on democracy is only just beginning really....
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 19 September 2014, 04:54:21 pm
Tories are so bad? how come the UK has the fastest growing economy in the EU
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 September 2014, 06:28:13 pm
Quote
Hiv ye sobered up noo? Ye're spikking some sense fan p*ssed ye ken.

Got tae bed I think 13.30 couldnae stand up basically. 

Quote
However, the people's assault on democracy is only just beginning really....

Umm still drunk.

Ach foc it, will post crap anyway.

Labour accused the 44.6 of bullying and intimidation. 

I voted Labour at the last general election.  There is no fucking way I will ever vote Labour again.

Labour is finished in Scotland. 
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 September 2014, 06:30:05 pm
Democracy can work for the people.

And not just in Scotland - right across the UK.

Wake up folks.

No not UKIP ya plonkers :'(
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Doddsie on 19 September 2014, 07:45:56 pm
WOW...... so many political experts all in one place!!
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Grahamm on 19 September 2014, 09:00:13 pm
Tories are so bad? how come the UK has the fastest growing economy in the EU


Sure. (http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/asset-stripping-bankrupt-britain.html)

Oh yeah. (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/04/11/george-osborne-uk-economy-success-graphs_n_5130934.html)

Of course. (http://www.snouts-in-the-trough.com/archives/8785)

Yeah, right... (http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2014/07/25/do-you-feel-as-prosperous-as-you-were-before-the-crisis/)

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Slaninar on 19 September 2014, 09:37:11 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 September 2014, 09:44:19 pm
Quote
Tories are so bad? how come the UK has the fastest growing economy in the EU

And who's better off?  It's a low wage, minimum wage, zero hours, shit terms and conditions plus claim benefits economy.  And the rich pay no tax.

Think about this, the nationalist SNP heartlands failed to deliver YES votes. 

The Unionist Labour strongholds delivered YES votes.

The old and monied carried this NO vote.

The Tories were wiped oot years ago in Scotland, now the New Tories are about to suffer the same fate.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: BIG MAC on 19 September 2014, 10:48:34 pm
So many seem to have missed the simplicity of the situation, There is a country up the road which is entirely self sufficient already but this in part is due to a formula which sees Scotland have about 95% of 'it's' income returned to it. Therefore 'cost neutral' to the rest of the UK. However Scotland does share some institutions..passport office, DVLA, HMRC etc and of course the armed forces. In independence these element would need to be sourced or funded from a 'new pot' of money. The easiest way to achieve this is not to have any debt and an Independent Scotland could have said 'screw you' but still legally demand it's reserves in gold from BoE. The real opportunity missed here was for England and others to ride hard on the heels of a Scottish victory and demand an English Parliament. Labour would be goosed (not that they aren't at the mo with the most chinless pseudo Cameron at the helm) Cameron would be Gone, You would likely have a Farage / Boris Johnson combo taking you out of Europe...They wouldn't get there but what would follow would likely be various coalitions which tends to work ok in Germany. Instead the supposedly Socialist Scots have voted for the neo liberal twerps in Westminster and have assured you of a continuation of their pocket lining (for them) austerity, sickeningly inhumane policies, and general poncing about on the World stage wasting your money. Any which way..'The promise' will be defaulted upon because it has to be..although there will be some smoke and mirrors pretence. But know this ...if any region of the UK gets any more devolved powers as a result of this..Then you have that man Alex Salmond and the YES voters to thank. That so many of my countryfolk are prepared to bend the knee to Westminster embarrasses me. Some wags have said 'The English should have voted' If it led to an Independent Scotland..I would agree,
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: JoeRock on 19 September 2014, 11:19:46 pm
Tories are so bad? how come the UK has the fastest growing economy in the EU



Not just the EU - according to the IMF (who I'm going to have to say, are probably one of the best sources for info on this type of matter), we're one of the fastest growing developed economies in the entire world:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10988849/UK-has-fastest-growing-economy-International-Monetary-Fund-says.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10988849/UK-has-fastest-growing-economy-International-Monetary-Fund-says.html)



Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: BIG MAC on 19 September 2014, 11:22:19 pm
Because we are growing from flat bottom broke
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Razgruff on 20 September 2014, 07:58:37 am
Victorians had a fast growing economy, and that's the type of economy the Tories want.
No protections for workers, no Health service etc. They are slowly dismantling all the gains the working classes have made since then.

growing economies don't always mean a rise in living standards for the majority.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 20 September 2014, 08:52:04 am
So most agree then that the UK has the fastest growing economy, check the unemployed statistics for the rest of Europe and wage levels. Hello this all part of being in the EU and eastern european nationals coming into western europe and dragging wage levels down and unemployment up
Better to have an economy that is on the way up than like say France which is still slipping backwards.

53.9% of Spanish natationals under the age of 29 are unemployed what is for the UK?

I am not a fan of the Tories but it took new labour and the banks to drop us all in the shit

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Slaninar on 20 September 2014, 08:56:39 am
Victorians had a fast growing economy, and that's the type of economy the Tories want.
No protections for workers, no Health service etc. They are slowly dismantling all the gains the working classes have made since then.

growing economies don't always mean a rise in living standards for the majority.


Exactly. Productivity has risen 100 times in the last 100 years. That means a man can make as much trousers/cars/shoes...youNameIt in one hour as they used to make in 100 hours. Which should mean we should all work 4 hours a day and provide everyone with enough of everything. This, however, would rule out anyone being rich, having a 100.000 car etc.


I grew up in a socialism country - on its way towards communism, as the final goal. You had free education, free health care. You could not buy an expensive car. There were like one model of jeans to buy. But everyone had a place to live, trousers and shoes to wear, work, vacation, days off etc. That was a lot better than now. For ordinary working people. For those people who know how to buy for 11 and sell for 21, how to "manage" etc - for them it is better now, but vast majority lives a lot worse. But now we have streets full of expensive cars, we have "freedom" - but you have to dress the way boss wants, talk and smile the way they want (that is also mandatory for those working with customers, rules like you have to smile so 6 front teeeth show - no wider, no less) etc.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 September 2014, 12:06:15 pm
Some interesting posts.

Quote
I am not a fan of the Tories but it took new labour and the banks to drop us all in the shit

Because Maggie's greatest achievement was Tony Blair.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: unfazed on 20 September 2014, 12:17:04 pm
Some interesting posts.

Quote
I am not a fan of the Tories but it took new labour and the banks to drop us all in the shit

Because Maggie's greatest achievement was Tony Blair.

 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: midden on 20 September 2014, 02:56:53 pm

 it took new labour and the banks to drop us all in the shit
This statement always makes me chuckle.
 I actually think I benefited from the 'Goodtimes' by saving any excess earnings created from it. Mostly though I think it was because I wasn't carried away with all the offers of easy loans and credit cards'  If anything I took advantage by composting the leaflets of temptation which kept coming through the door  :) [size=78%] [/size]
 
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 20 September 2014, 03:39:21 pm

 it took new labour and the banks to drop us all in the shit
This statement always makes me chuckle.
 I actually think I benefited from the 'Goodtimes' by saving any excess earnings created from it. Mostly though I think it was because I wasn't carried away with all the offers of easy loans and credit cards'  If anything I took advantage by composting the leaflets of temptation which kept coming through the door  :)

Best thing I ever did during the good times was to make over payments on my monthly mortgage repayments, saved me ££££ and knocked about 4 years of the mortgage term. One of the best days of my life when I made that last payment. Then I used to recycle all the offers from banks, building societies, etc! wanting to lend me money as I had a good credit rating.
Sold me big house , family up and gone, have got a  nice two bed two bath appartment in the UK and also bought this place in Spain
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 21 September 2014, 10:45:22 pm
Well I was under the impression that after the NO vote Salmond fell on his sword and resigned. Watching the news today I see he is still stirring the shit, why does he just not feck off lick his wounds and write his memiors, class A knob
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 September 2014, 10:40:55 am
Well I was under the impression that after the NO vote Salmond fell on his sword and resigned.

Yes he has fallen on his sword.  No he has not resigned, he announced his resignation and will stand down at the SNP party conference in due course.  Meanwhile he is still first minister of Scotland.

Quote
why does he just not feck off lick his wounds and write his memiors, class A knob

He hasn't got any wounds to lick.  Wee Eck has achieved more for Scotland than any other politician in recent history.

He still the most talented politician in the UK by a country mile, and the most popular politician in Scotland.  Oh yes many who don't like him despise him, hate him, but many more respect him.

What he is talking about (haven't seen the sky news thing) I would guess, is turning the 45% into SNP votes, perhaps increasing that figure.  That would be sensational, that would give the SNP most of the Scottish seats at Westminster and a big solid majority at the Scottish Parliament.  He's talking about, I think, making the impossible the norm.

It's certainly what many on the streets are talking about.

This is not over.

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slimwilly on 22 September 2014, 02:01:42 pm
Ther is a common thinking in england that alot of tbe yes voters are from very deprived areas of the two big cities and their votes were bought by the promise of cheaper booze prices in tesco.

And of these thousands of voters nonehavetheslightest idea of politics or how they get their dole money.
A promise of more jobs  would probably put the fear of god into them
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Oldgit on 22 September 2014, 03:30:35 pm
is there any intelligence out there??????
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: dazza on 22 September 2014, 06:35:14 pm
Democracy is a lie, apparently.   https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1486271174975502 (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1486271174975502)     Don't know how genuine this is but I for one don't trust any of these cunts in power.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: midden on 03 July 2015, 02:45:24 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3147966/Sturgeon-threatens-new-independence-referendum-SNP-clash-Tories-English-votes-English-laws-plan.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3147966/Sturgeon-threatens-new-independence-referendum-SNP-clash-Tories-English-votes-English-laws-plan.html)

mao its racist since it's favouring England ....... :eek
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 03 July 2015, 07:47:20 am
Well the answer is simple, westminster should just desolve the Scottish parliment, you are either in or your not , cake and eat it springs to mind.
Why should Scottish, Welsh or N Ireland MP's have any input into what an English issue only is have to do with them.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Oldgit on 03 July 2015, 06:13:00 pm
well said that man lewfazer. :pc
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: taylor on 03 July 2015, 09:00:07 pm
well said lew bang on.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: nickodemon on 03 July 2015, 09:22:10 pm
Well the answer is simple, westminster should just desolve the Scottish parliment, you are either in or your not , cake and eat it springs to mind.
Why should Scottish, Welsh or N Ireland MP's have any input into what an English issue only is have to do with them.
The reason Scottish, welsh and n ireland mp's should have an input is VERY simple. The devolved scottish parliament is given a budget every year out of the 'english' budget, which is controlled by the  bank of England.  The Scottish can then decide to a certain extent where to spend the money in Scotland. England on the other hand has control of all monies (inc what Scotland is allowed to spend) If England have  english issues only it can determine how much Scotland, wales and n ireland will have as a budget the following year, so they should be allowed to raise issues if they think it could affect there budget.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: midden on 03 July 2015, 09:41:52 pm
Raise issues of concern yes but without right to vote on the final outcome.  It could  argued any budget given to Scotland has an impact on England.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: nickodemon on 03 July 2015, 10:36:58 pm
The budget that Scotland receives is less than what Scotland gives to the UK economy. The Scots also pay more per head in tax than anyone else in the UK. It is absolute rubbish that England supports Scotland. If anyone can prove otherwise please show government taxation documents. On both sides of the border there is scare mongering about who pays what... Why do you think the conservatives, labour and the lib dems are so keen to keep Scotland attached to England financially.. Do you think they want to keep a country that costs them lots of money...
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 03 July 2015, 10:56:21 pm
If the Scots are paying more tax than anyone else in the UK surely you need to be looking at the Scottish Parliment as Scotland has the right to set there own income tax rates? or have I got that wrong.
in Scotland do you not get free NHS prescritions?>? Someone has to pick up the tab for that so maybe that is why,if what you say is correct scots pay more tax.
The devolved Scottish parliment is given a budget every year out of the English budget, It is NOT the English budget it is the budget from the British Treasury and the UK parliment.
Unlike the other three UK & GB countries The English do not have a parliment of their OWN !!! The English only have representation in the Houses of Parliment(Westminster) which to me seems unfair as the Scots , The Welsh and the N Irish get two bits at the cherry.
Feel free to have another independance vote just remember though the English should also have the same rights to vote to keep Scotland out of the UK when you realise you got it wrong.
We are stronger together.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: nickodemon on 04 July 2015, 12:41:23 am
Scots don't get to set there income tax rates. Nhs prescriptions are free, but there are only 5 million Scots. England does have there own parliament. Its called westminster, as it dictates what happens to the smaller countries attached. We are stronger together as an allied force against what is happening in tunisia etc.. The English seem to think that if Scotland become independent that we are not going to be side by side with you when we go to war is totally wrong. The scottish/welsh n irish people want to be able to have full atonomy of the money they create to be used in there country. simples :)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 04 July 2015, 09:02:52 am
Nikodemon, there are only 5 million Scots?????? I think what you mean there are only 5 million who live there. I noticed in the last referendum if you were a scot and you lived outside of Scotland you were not allowed to vote in the referendum, what was that all about??
You may say why should you get the vote if you do not live in the country. A lot of scots work and live abroad. It does not mean they have turned their back on Scotland it usually is means must and one would assume when they finished working abroad they may choose to return home.
I think the fair way to carry out a referendum if it raises it's head again the whole of the UK should be allowed to vote on it not just the Scots. That way the nationalists in Scotland may get what they wish for as I think the English are tired of the constant whinging coming out of Scotland.
The whole of the UK has been through a resession not just north of the border.

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 July 2015, 09:16:02 am
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Raise issues of concern yes but without right to vote on the final outcome.  It could  argued any budget given to Scotland has an impact on England.

Look Scotland's budget is linked to England's budget.

For example, if England cuts it's NHS budget, then in turn Scotland's NHS budget is cut.

But the NHS is a devolved issue.  Scotland runs it's own NHS.

So Scotland must have the right to vote on English NHS matters becuase they can have a direct impact on Scotland's NHS.

You know all this whinging about Scottish influence in the English parliament, Scotland voting on English matters etc.  Well you know what, tough - get over it.

I had to suffer 17 years of Tory rule that my country did not vote for.  And yet again we have a Tory government, yet only one Tory MP in Scotland.  Scotland did not vote Tory, but Scotland has a Tory government again.

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in Scotland do you not get free NHS prescritions?

Scotland gets a fixed budget.  The Scottish parliament decides how to spend that budget. 

Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 July 2015, 09:23:51 am
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[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3147966/Sturgeon-threatens-new-independence-referendum-SNP-clash-Tories-English-votes-English-laws-plan.html[/url]


Ooooo don't you just love the Daily Mail.

Referendum?  Not sure we will need one.

It looks like the SNP will do the impossible twice - that is hold a majority in a coalition parliament - come 2016.  You have to understand that the Scottish parliament was designed by the English so that the SNP could never hold a majority and that there could never ever be a referendum on Scottish Independence.  But it looks like not only will the SNP do the impossible twice but they will in all probability increase their majority.  Though of course 10 months is a very long time in politics. 

But if the SNP do perform as currently expected, and with 56 SNP seats out of 59 in the English parliament, well I would argue that come the summer of 2016 we won't need a referendum.  It's a simple mater of declaring Scotland Independent. 

The SNP would have the mandate to do so.  Just a thought.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: midden on 04 July 2015, 10:03:08 am
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Raise issues of concern yes but without right to vote on the final outcome.  It could  argued any budget given to Scotland has an impact on England.

You know all this whinging about Scottish influence in the English parliament, Scotland voting on English matters etc.  Well you know what, tough - get over it.

in that case

Scotland is part of the UK so stop your whinging and get over it   :nana
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 04 July 2015, 10:14:15 am
Let's have our own poll on here for Scotland in Scotland out.  :rollin
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Oldgit on 04 July 2015, 02:02:08 pm
OUT along with the GREEKS.  :pc
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 04 July 2015, 02:23:45 pm
I agree with Oldgit out along with the Greeks. Have yer vote and begone.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slappy on 04 July 2015, 02:32:35 pm
I agree with Oldgit out along with the Greeks. Have yer vote and begone.

Yes to that, the reason so many scots like me leave Scotland is the insular attitude held by so many north of the border. The attitude that all english mps are tossers and all scottish mps are paragons of virtue is beyond laughable.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Frosties on 04 July 2015, 03:37:39 pm
I agree with Oldgit out along with the Greeks. Have yer vote and begone.

Yes to that, the reason so many scots like me leave Scotland is the insular attitude held by so many north of the border. The attitude that all english mps are tossers and all scottish mps are paragons of virtue is beyond laughable.

 :lol :lol Well said. Oh yeah, OUT  :D
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 July 2015, 07:13:31 pm
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Yes to that, the reason so many scots like me leave Scotland is the insular attitude held by so many north of the border. The attitude that all english mps are tossers and all scottish mps are paragons of virtue is beyond laughable.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=85&v=ak4O_b78iMw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=85&v=ak4O_b78iMw)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slappy on 04 July 2015, 07:49:09 pm
That desperate that you have to rely on youtube!
The reason the Romans put Hadrians wall up 2000 years ago is that even they didn't want people like you in their empire.
Please ,declare independence now and when it goes tits up who will you blame then?
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: midden on 04 July 2015, 08:03:09 pm
Best part of that clip came around 3.05min ..........I'd tuck her under my souvenir kilt  ;)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: celticdog on 04 July 2015, 09:13:25 pm

Some of you aren't thinking with your dipstick . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pcqVQe-4z0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pcqVQe-4z0)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: lew600fazer on 04 July 2015, 10:08:39 pm
oh dear not a vote in yet for the Scots  :rollin :rollin :rollin
Must be something to do with the weather, at least with Scotland gone we will not need to be bored with the football results from the SPL
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Phil on 05 July 2015, 10:59:54 am
Quote
[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3147966/Sturgeon-threatens-new-independence-referendum-SNP-clash-Tories-English-votes-English-laws-plan.html[/url]


Ooooo don't you just love the Daily Mail.

Referendum?  Not sure we will need one.

It looks like the SNP will do the impossible twice - that is hold a majority in a coalition parliament - come 2016.  You have to understand that the Scottish parliament was designed by the English so that the SNP could never hold a majority and that there could never ever be a referendum on Scottish Independence.  But it looks like not only will the SNP do the impossible twice but they will in all probability increase their majority.  Though of course 10 months is a very long time in politics. 

But if the SNP do perform as currently expected, and with 56 SNP seats out of 59 in the English parliament, well I would argue that come the summer of 2016 we won't need a referendum.  It's a simple mater of declaring Scotland Independent. 
 The SNP would have the mandate to do so.  Just a thought.



In the referendum, most voters didn't want an independent Scotland.
Before the last election, if I remember correctly, a new referendum wasn't in their manifesto.
Yet some people think that 56 SNP seats now means most people want an independent Scotland. It doesn't.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/04/nicola-sturgeon-refuses-to-rule-out-a-second-referendum/ (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/04/nicola-sturgeon-refuses-to-rule-out-a-second-referendum/)

But in order to sustain that momentum to polling day, Sturgeon needs to reassure nervous former ‘no’ voters who are considering voting SNP in order to exert the sort of left-wing pressure on Labour that Sturgeon promises. So today on Marr, she insisted that a vote for the SNP was not a vote for independence, that the circumstances would have to change significantly before another referendum came up.


Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slappy on 05 July 2015, 12:40:32 pm
The circumstances have changed significantly though, Sturgeon is a woman :eek and she has changed her mind. :lol
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Val on 05 July 2015, 01:43:06 pm
OK, I'm not politically minded and haven't been following the great debate.

But, as I live in England, how does it effect me if Scotland leaves?
Should I give a monkeys either way?


Not really. Anyway the UK will leave Europe by 2025 and the edge of the Solar System by 2050. Common sense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RMvSC1sXMQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RMvSC1sXMQ)
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 July 2015, 06:34:32 pm
Fair points Phil,

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In the referendum, most voters didn't want an independent Scotland.

55% voted NO.  But 'Better Together' were panicking in the last few weeks of the campaign - the gap was closing fast and it looked as if a YES vote would be delivered.  So what did they do - they came up with 'The Vow' - a promise of new and real powers for Scotland, it sounded like 'devo max' or federalism was on offer (the option NO originally refused to have on the ballot paper).  But of course two other wee things happened - NO effectively tore up and binned the Edinburgh Agreement that set out the rules for the referendum, and subsequently those who voted in the postal ballot actually took part in a different referendum than those who voted at the polling station.

Further, on the morning of the result, Cameron spoke not of new Scottish powers but English votes for English laws.

Many of those who voted NO did so with a heavy heart, many also believed 'The Vow', many felt conned and insulted when Cameron spoke on that Friday morning.

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Before the last election, if I remember correctly, a new referendum wasn't in their manifesto.

The last UK election I take you mean.  Well no.  If it was in there, well it can't be delivered can it, not even if the SNP won every single Scottish seat - which they nearly did.

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Yet some people think that 56 SNP seats now means most people want an independent Scotland. It doesn't.

I'm sure some people do, but the Scottish electorate is surprisingly canny, yes many No voters voted for the SNP, and I, a YES voter voted Labour.

I was pleased to see Labour tanked at the election in Scotland, but sorry to loose a first class MP in Katie Clark - I was not impressed with the SNP candidate.  Sadly I felt voters were not quite canny enougth in North Ayrshire.

So YES, some people still think the YES campaign was an SNP campaign, and that all YES voters are SNP members. 

Clearly things are a wee bit mare complicated than that.
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: Oldgit on 08 July 2015, 08:34:24 am
the useless 56, all sittin on their fat arses doin nothing but moaning, but claiming max expenses and drawing a salary that would choke a horse--Foc them all. :pc
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slappy on 08 July 2015, 01:50:08 pm
the useless 56, all sittin on their fat arses doin nothing but moaning, but claiming max expenses and drawing a salary that would choke a horse--Foc them all. :pc

Well to be fair the other 594 are exactly the same :D
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: BIG MAC on 28 October 2015, 08:53:50 am
There will always be those who are comforted by the yoke..without sufficient wherewithal to understand that as an outpost of Empire their Country exists merely to underwrite irresponsible budget after irresponsible budget from Westminster. Todays news..no more Bobbies on the beat say the Met, Hospital ward closures, Tax credits reforms slapped down, Getting the Chinese to build a nuclear weapon on UK soil (They don't need Trident) then paying the French to run it. Instead of using the money from a never to be deployed weapon to build British Nuclear capability. Shut down the Steelworks..Buy Chinese steel...and all the while the Fat Cats get Fatter and the only growth industry is food banking. Frankly ENGLAND should be voting SNP! Your other options are hell bent on self serving Armageddon or hand wringing liberalism. And what of the SNP record..oooooo they had a surplus from the pittance Westminster decrees they may have back out of the Billions handed over and not realised in Scotland from the EEC ..yes George Osborne..they did provide free education, they did look after the elderly and no they didn't have enough to build hospitals etc.some may say they are far better at managing limited resources than George..who is completely discredited, continues to borrow and sulks behind his equally fatuous mate the Pig Minister where someone in the Lords tell him he's being a dick....
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: slappy on 28 October 2015, 03:42:51 pm
Looks like someone got out of wrong side of bed !
Title: Re: The Jock vote
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 October 2015, 07:49:24 pm
Wow, have to say I completely agree with Big Mac!  :eek

The Tories are absolutely screwing us.  It's so completely fucked up.