Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial

General => General => Topic started by: coffee on 12 March 2019, 08:23:25 pm

Title: 6 million memories
Post by: coffee on 12 March 2019, 08:23:25 pm
Don't want to start any political rants or anything just wanted to remember the jews murdered by the Nazis,including 1 million children world war 2  on this Holocaust Rememberance Day. R.I.P. :(

Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: slappy on 12 March 2019, 08:52:41 pm
RIP  indeed, a terrible crime committed against those of the Jewish faith.
My wife visited Auschwitz  last year and had to leave half way through  because she was so upset by what  she saw and read.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: Frosties on 12 March 2019, 11:04:21 pm
Auschwitz is on my list even though I know I won't like it.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 12 March 2019, 11:16:37 pm
I visited Auschwitz a couple of years ago. It must be done. You visit both the remaining camps. I found Auschwitz Birkenau the most haunting. The railway line ending with buffers. We must never forget.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: Trebus on 12 March 2019, 11:36:24 pm
Have also visited Auschwitz and it is indeed a very harrowing experience. Puts our day to day ‘struggles’ into perspective.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: ogri48 on 12 March 2019, 11:50:16 pm
yeah me and penny went four years back. Incredible place. As you say, we must never forget or allow it to be forgotten. We stayed at Krakow, wonderful old city, wonderful people.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 12 March 2019, 11:59:17 pm
Yes Krakow is good and very friendly. The Schindler factory /museum and the Jewish Quarter where the ghetto stood. They also put it all in perspective
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: maddog04 on 13 March 2019, 09:26:34 am
Indeed, we must never forget.

a past work colleague went and said it was harrowing, someone else I know went and said it wasn't as bad as he'd thought it would be (not disrespectful but I think he'd heard that much and built himself a wall to bat off what he thought was going to be a really upsetting experience)

just watching old war films can give an idea of the horrors but seeing the camps for real.....I can only assume it would be a sobering experience. It's something me and the Mrs would like to do but she's in a wheelchair. Those who have been, can you say if Krakow and the camps are wheelchair friendly?
TIA
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: Robbie8666 on 13 March 2019, 12:16:46 pm
Haven't been myself, however when I went to Jersey I went to the German Hospital there & that place was about as much as I could take!

& still people out there try to deny it ever happened!!

Lest we Forget!
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: Decoke Dave on 13 March 2019, 12:36:02 pm
        More young people need to be educated about what happened in the holocaust, these were real human beings, R.I.P. Amazing how many people know so little about it. This famous saying was never more true.  Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them!
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 12:40:00 pm
Unfortunately genocide still continues, albeit with smaller numbers
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: coffee on 13 March 2019, 01:51:53 pm
It's hard to understand how many people were murdered until you think about more than the combined population of Birmingham,Manchester,Glasgow and Liverpool disappearing in a few years, sickening.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: ogri48 on 13 March 2019, 02:09:53 pm

I didn't realise until I went that most of the old, the women and the children never made the site huts, they were walked down the line straight to bunker one and bunker two for "showering". On their "best" day they murdered around 11000 human beings. utterly incomprehensible....


 Yes mate, I think it is wheelchair friendly, though its best to book through one of the guided tours. Their English is superb, everywhere you go, and food and drink are so cheap its untrue. A carrier bag full of delicious bakery goods to see us through the day was about eight quid. In the evening a couple of steaks and a bottle of wine is under £40 if you go some where quiet. Accomodation in one of the old city apartments is cheap and beautiful. And the old part of Krakow, with the square and everything, is like going back in time fifty or sixty years here and visiting London. its a stunning city.
The two camps are definitely somewhere everyone should visit..
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: ogri48 on 13 March 2019, 02:13:35 pm
they don't waste much in Poland btw. we came across this fence on the way to the camp. way to use up old mopeds and sewing machines dudes..
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: steve 10562cc on 13 March 2019, 03:45:48 pm
I knew a old boy that was one of the squaddies that liberated Belson. He had nightmares till the day he died and the stench of death in that camp never left him.  He would never talk about it. The human race must never be allowed to forget what happened in these places.  R.I.P   
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: maddog04 on 13 March 2019, 04:33:08 pm
Thanks ogri48
when you say the apartments .....are they wheelchair friendly too?

I know I'm asking a lot but in short, we need lifts not stairs and towns/cities that are flat (I'm getting on now and can't be pushing her up hill :lol)

toilets is another big issue, even in this country you wouldn't believe the hassle of trying to find an accessible disabled toilet

cheers
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: ogri48 on 13 March 2019, 05:34:08 pm
that I don't know mate, though I think them old apartment blocks are like in French or Italian cities and have lifts in the lobbies. Definitely worth taking her if you can swing it. Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen will knock the crap out of you, but it don't half put things in perspective
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: Frosties on 13 March 2019, 08:47:07 pm

I didn't realise until I went that most of the old, the women and the children never made the site huts, they were walked down the line straight to bunker one and bunker two for "showering". On their "best" day they murdered around 11000 human beings. utterly incomprehensible....


I'm still struggling to get my head around this....


11,000 people ffs.


Whenever I read about mass numbers of deaths i.e. WW1, the only way I can visualise it is through sporting stadiums....old Wembley was 100,000 etc.


This 11,000 is nearly full capacity for my home town of Southend's footy ground. I can visualise the crowd......but that many people in 1 day just screws my head.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: ogri48 on 13 March 2019, 08:50:00 pm
when you stand by the bunkers and the memorial, your standing in the ashes of something like 4 million people. As you say mate, its just impossible to get your head around..
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: F4celess on 15 March 2019, 10:17:26 am
when you stand by the bunkers and the memorial, your standing in the ashes of something like 4 million people. As you say mate, its just impossible to get your head around..

Truly is sickening. How the German soldiers who ran the camps could stand there looking the poor souls in the eye, as they were being ushered off the trains in their thousands, knowing what they were about to experience, men women and children.........  humans are the most evil species of any kind walking this planet.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 15 March 2019, 10:23:24 am
Quote
How the German soldiers who ran the camps could stand there looking the poor souls in the eye
Indoctrination, extreme nationalism, race supremacy, fear of others
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: Kenbob on 15 March 2019, 10:36:16 am
Fear for their own lives and that of their families also.

Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 15 March 2019, 10:52:37 am
Yet we didn't learn the lessons :
Biafra
Bosnia
Myanmar
and so it goes on
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: slappy on 15 March 2019, 12:17:38 pm
Quote
How the German soldiers who ran the camps could stand there looking the poor souls in the eye
Indoctrination, extreme nationalism, race supremacy, fear of others


mtread , the OP said he did not want to start any political rants so please don't.  This thread is not an appropriate place.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 15 March 2019, 03:04:29 pm
I'm answering the question. Not making a political point at all. It's simply fact,  if you've ever read German history between the wars. How you can turn a population against one race. The majority of the German population thought the Jews were sub human. That's how it was done.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: slappy on 15 March 2019, 04:32:40 pm
I know very well why, how and  who it was done by, I  don't need you to remind me. Keep the your political point scoring for the other threads, not this one.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 15 March 2019, 04:43:30 pm
Pathetic. I won't even bother to reply......
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: steve 10562cc on 15 March 2019, 05:47:12 pm
Well that will be refreshing,  this thread is not for your political point scoring it's to remember and show respect to all those that died
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 15 March 2019, 07:57:19 pm
Look, if you've ever been to Auschwitz or the Schindler Museum or seen the empty square in the Kazimierz quarter, you'd know that the memorials are not just about shedding tears for the victims. They are there to show what led up to the atrocities. How and why they happened. They are about Kristalnacht, the ghetto, the Germans and Poles turning in their Jewish neighbours.

It's not politics, it's about inhumanity and trying to ensure it doesn't happen again.

It looks like both of you could start an argument with yourselves in a locked room. So don't lecture me, just go back to the playground.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: steve 10562cc on 15 March 2019, 08:10:15 pm
If you had read my original post you would perhaps realise  why I feel so strongly about this I knew one person who was one of the first troops into Belson, and a polish guy I worked with for several years who escaped from a Russian camp which were no better than the German ones.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 15 March 2019, 08:14:56 pm
I did, and I fully understand why you feel so strongly.


But the points I were making were not political, far from it
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: coffee on 15 March 2019, 09:29:34 pm
'kin hell ,we can't even have a chat about a terrible episode amongst ourselves without starting to get nasty,what about if it was only from something as simple as that that started all the fucking problems in the first place,chill out lads. :(
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 15 March 2019, 10:18:09 pm
Indeed. It just seems that some like arguing  :rolleyes
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: dazza on 16 March 2019, 12:20:00 am
If you had any genuine respect or humility or a desire not to start an argument  mtread you would have just kept quiet and left it alone ages ago instead of trying to continually  have the last word.
It's not always just about you you know and your desire to portray yourself as some sort of self righteous defender  of  what you deem to be the truth.
It would appear that no human tragedy is off limits to you two for you to attempt what was accurately described as political point scoring.
Just leave it man, have some respect.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 March 2019, 01:01:03 am
Quote
It's not always just about you you know and your desire to portray yourself as some sort of self righteous defender  of  what you deem to be the truth.
So says Dazza who keeps posting facist propaganda on this forum.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 March 2019, 01:06:37 am
Holocuast rememberance day is the 27th of January by the way.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: dazza on 16 March 2019, 01:25:38 am
Quote
It's not always just about you you know and your desire to portray yourself as some sort of self righteous defender  of  what you deem to be the truth.
So says Dazza who keeps posting facist propaganda on this forum.
That's a pretty serious accusation to make on a public forum. :stop
However, you're still an idiot.
Now, have some respect as well and leave this topic for genuine people.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 16 March 2019, 09:31:43 am
Well what a surprise. Dazza scours the forums, finds one he hasn't contributed to, and pops in to try and start another argument, playing the innocent again.


Do us all a favour Dazza, and just shut up.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: dazza on 17 March 2019, 01:14:05 am
If you had any genuine respect or humility or a desire not to start an argument  mtread you would have just kept quiet and left it alone ages ago instead of trying to continually  have the last word.
It's not always just about you you know and your desire to portray yourself as some sort of self righteous defender  of  what you deem to be the truth.
It would appear that no human tragedy is off limits to you two for you to attempt what was accurately described as political point scoring.
Just leave it man, have some respect.
No other words needed  :D
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 17 March 2019, 12:02:26 pm
You've taken my advice then  :lol
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: Bretty on 19 March 2019, 07:35:51 am

The number that gets me is that "between 50 to 70million people died during WW2"... They can't even put a number on it to the nearest 10million!! I try to remember everyone, not just the Jews.  :(


Auschwitz was a labour camp, I would suggest most people visit Bergen Belsen that was a proper horrendous death camp. I managed to walk around Auschwitz, but Bergen Belsen made me physically sick!



Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 19 March 2019, 09:43:34 am
Auschwitz 1 was a labour/detention camp. Auschwitz Birkenau (3 km away) was purely an extermination camp. Both still exist and are visited.


I'm sure Bergen-Belsen is just as harrowing
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: Bretty on 19 March 2019, 06:21:56 pm

It's probably quite sad that I'm interested in, visit and read about all these things.


It's funny how war crimes were quickly forgotten after the war in exchange for knowledge and technology.
For example, It was the German's that put America on the moon. Surprisingly, I didn't see much reference to that when we visited the Kennedy space centre... but it was all technology derived from the development of the V2 missile, the work of Von Braun and the slave labour camps responsible for building them. I've visited these and they are all equally sick.


It's easy to be hypocritical with all these things. I remember hearing some American lady at Auschwitz saying, "How can a nation stand by and let this happen...people held and tortured, without trial or human rights?!". I asked her if she had heard of Guantanamo Bay? Is it really different? We all choose to ignore it, pretend it isn't there, because it suits our interests.


Anyway, Maybe I'm weird...



Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: coffee on 19 March 2019, 08:34:01 pm
The technology maybe,,but do you honestly believe anyone went to the moon,THE MOON,the foccin' moon in 1969,no way,not a chance,never happened and probably never will,the biggest con in history. :foc not you Bretty,the lying U.S.A.
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: Bretty on 19 March 2019, 09:40:19 pm
...and erf it be flat.  ;)
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: mtread on 20 March 2019, 12:09:25 am
..... and the world leaders are actually lizards in human form


O hang on a minute, that might be true  :eek
Title: Re: 6 million memories
Post by: coffee on 21 March 2019, 08:30:26 pm
yeah,slimy bastards  :lol