Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial

General => General => Topic started by: steve 10562cc on 02 November 2018, 08:31:06 am

Title: BREXIT
Post by: steve 10562cc on 02 November 2018, 08:31:06 am
There you are VNA  a thread all of your own for all your clap trap on Brexit and other politics.    ENJOY 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 02 November 2018, 09:35:28 am
Snigger  :nana
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 02 November 2018, 09:38:31 am

So it's been withdrawn from the collective subject?. Was there a referendum supporting this decision?.
If so, is the result still valid in light of recent events?.


 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 November 2018, 09:58:51 am
Yeah, but I bet you all still come in and have a look, won't you  :pokefun
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Dynspud on 02 November 2018, 10:05:42 am
Nice one YamFazFan  :rollin :rollin :rollin
Good to see someone keeping it light-hearted.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 02 November 2018, 10:29:49 am

Yeah, but I bet you all still come in and have a look, won't you  :pokefun


 :lol I bet as well, but they won't be able to post or it'd give the game away lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 02 November 2018, 10:58:12 am
Yeah, but I bet you all still come in and have a look, won't you  :pokefun


I'm back for another look
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 02 November 2018, 11:07:30 am

Right anyone else want in on The Brexit debate?.


If so make sure you're settled around the table by the time VNA gets home from work this evening.


And to the rest of you, NO listening at the keyhole!.
 :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Frosties on 02 November 2018, 11:54:57 am
So VNA....can you run me through this Brexit thing again and why we voted to cancel Breakfast ?

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 02 November 2018, 12:03:44 pm
Yeah, but I bet you all still come in and have a look, won't you  :pokefun


I absolutely, definitely, promise, cross my heart, won't.  :tape


Careful though fellas. Thread title says just for VNA. 9 posts in and he's about the only one not to comment so far  :lol
Better leave him some room at the bottom - a LOT of room  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 November 2018, 12:59:16 pm
Brilliant, no posting, no dissent. So on this thread we can all agree that Brexit is a disaster, we need another referendum to overturn it, and if not Scotland can go independent :D


Careful now.......
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 02 November 2018, 02:39:25 pm
Brilliant, no posting, no dissent.

 In other words what anyone apart from the left refers to as 'free speech' :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Frosties on 02 November 2018, 04:28:34 pm
Brilliant, no posting, no dissent. So on this thread we can all agree that Brexit is a disaster, we need another referendum to overturn it, and if not Scotland can go independent :D


Careful now.......


Scotland - you mean that bit at the top where they get a Commons seat because the SNP win a constituency of 10 votes  :wall
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 November 2018, 06:07:25 pm
 
Quote
What a surprise! This thread has been hi jacked again by political verbal masturbation.
 
 
 I'll be back when this has all died down.
 
 If you want to show how much you remember from your crap grade A level Politics exam, start your own thread and leave this formerly interesting thread alone.
 
 
 Please?
Ogri – it wis Ogri that started it.  VNA never starts political discussions.  And I have most certainly never started a political thread.  But I see no reason why I should not offer my opinion if others choose to make political comments or if others start political threads.  However, as is often the case with those who do kick off with political comments, they do so seeking approval and applause from others and cannae handle it when somebody offers an opposing view. (no Ogri not guilty this time).


Oh, as a parting shot on BREXIT, Standard and Poor – the credit rating and financial research agency has just published it’s assessment of a No Deal Brexit.  They are independent and have no political axe to grind.
  [url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-no-deal-recession-economy-finance-standard-poors-forecast-ratings-a8609891.html]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-no-deal-recession-economy-finance-standard-poors-forecast-ratings-a8609891.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-no-deal-recession-economy-finance-standard-poors-forecast-ratings-a8609891.html)[/url]

 Basically, a No Deal Brexit leaving the UK outside of a customs union will trash the UK economy.
 

 


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 02 November 2018, 06:44:39 pm

I think ogri started a "gets my goat" thread asking why mps didn't get on with getting the best deal with Brexit, as opposed to actually starting a Brexit debate. :)
but then im not a left winger, so i'm probably wrong :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 02 November 2018, 06:44:56 pm

I'd have thought house prices falling by 10% was a good thing!.


Makes them more affordable for first time buyers and doesn't affect those who already own because everyone else's drops too.


Bring it on I say.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 02 November 2018, 06:48:40 pm
you gotta love the left. Diane abbot can say stuff like "white mothers aren't as good as black mothers". Jeremy Corbyn can make every jew in Britain be afraid of labour getting into power. and yet those of us who voted for Brexit for whatever our own personal reasons (mine was I hate bullies) are the racists..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 02 November 2018, 07:09:26 pm
in truth, I think the political arguing on here isn't too bad...most attack the opinion rather than the individual, which is how it should be. I got a mate in Northumberland who is politically the polar opposite of me, and Christ do we give each other grief over it when we are feeling "baity", but hes still one of me best mates. And the end of the day, were all just blokes with individual opinions based upon how stuff has affected us or our areas/families, and none of us are enemies, real or imagined
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Dynspud on 02 November 2018, 07:22:36 pm
Well said mate.
As I've always said.....life's too short  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 02 November 2018, 07:29:04 pm
that it is dave! Im flogging loads of bike gear on ebay to fund our Show day purchases btw lol..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Dynspud on 02 November 2018, 07:35:23 pm
When you say old bike gear, is this stuff you bought on impulse before and never used??  :lol
I know exactly what that feels like Paul.
I've got soooo many things that were "must haves" at the time but I never used afterwards.


We'll have to keep an eye on each other mate and make sure we don't do anything stupid & expensive  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 02 November 2018, 07:38:51 pm

just keep me away from that frigging triumph stand bud...ooh that new 1200 scramblers nice. but 6-7 times the cost of me fazer!?!?! I dont think so, id rather have half a dozen thou's in the garage..
sorry, this is not Brexit arguing, I do apologise.
as you were..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 02 November 2018, 07:50:11 pm

you gotta love the left. Diane abbot can say stuff like "white mothers aren't as good as black mothers". Jeremy Corbyn can make every jew in Britain be afraid of labour getting into power. and yet those of us who voted for Brexit for whatever our own personal reasons (mine was I hate bullies) are the racists..


The mystery to me is how the left ever assumed the moral high ground on such issues.


They're the most intolerant lot there is!.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 November 2018, 07:54:37 pm
Quote
I think ogri started a "gets my goat" thread asking why mps didn't get on with getting the best deal with Brexit, as opposed to actually starting a Brexit debate.
And in reply I explained why they can't 'just get on with it' and then it all kicked off :eek


Quote
[size=0.85em]that it is dave! Im flogging loads of bike gear on ebay to fund our Show day purchases btw lol..[/size][/size][size=0.85em]

Hang on a minute. Off topic! :hijack Go and get your own shopping  thread  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 02 November 2018, 08:01:11 pm
lol sorry dude, my bad.. :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 08:15:25 am
Oh, as a parting shot on BREXIT

So steve10562cc went to all the trouble of custom making a thread for you for ONE post! :rolleyes
 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 November 2018, 09:59:32 am
The trouble with Brexiteers is that they won't say what they want. Like a small child at the seaside crying because they don't want an ice cream. Remainers like VNA and myself come up with solutions out of the current mess, but Brexiteers just go on and on with the 'we won' chorus, without saying what they want to happen now. They are very good at knocking things down, but useless at building things up.
So come on, what's your solutions for where we are now? Soft Brexit or hard Brexit? What should our future trading relationship be with the EU? What should happen about the land boundary in Ireland? Let's hear some positive suggestions for a change?
Sometimes I feel sorry for Theresa....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 10:13:01 am
Like a small child at the seaside crying because they don't want an ice cream.
That's more often than not bacause they want one and get told they can't have it.
A bit like the Remainers and a second referendum/People's Vote :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 03 November 2018, 10:39:18 am
A remainer saying the leavers are crying like petulant children!?!? I mean, seriously mate?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 10:41:26 am
The trouble with Brexiteers is that they won't say what they want.
I'll have a go :D ....I don't want the unelected Junckers and the other unelected commisioners proposing the legislation that eventually ends up becoming law in this country.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 10:47:07 am
The trouble with Brexiteers is that they won't say what they want. Like a small child at the seaside crying because they don't want an ice cream. Remainers like VNA and myself come up with solutions out of the current mess, but Brexiteers just go on and on with the 'we won' chorus, without saying what they want to happen now. They are very good at knocking things down, but useless at building things up.
So come on, what's your solutions for where we are now? Soft Brexit or hard Brexit? What should our future trading relationship be with the EU? What should happen about the land boundary in Ireland? Let's hear some positive suggestions for a change?
Sometimes I feel sorry for Theresa....


I could equally turn that around and ask what kind of Europe do Remainers want to be a part of? Were you, for example, happy with the deal Cameron came back with just before the referendum? Or did you think he didn't need to strike any new kind of deal? Do you think everything the EU does is just fine by you? VNA doesn't think it would ever move towards a Super State scenario. And yet to many people, that is exactly where it seems to be heading. Maybe that's a good thing? Maybe there should be no separate countries in the EU anymore? Wouldn't that erode the individual character of each one though? Or is that ok too?


And were Remainers happy with the way the immigrant 'crisis' was handled? Just shooing in all and sundry, economic as well as refugee status? With hardly any checks on background? Was that wise, given the kind of countries they were coming from and the current state of affairs with Islamic extremism? Or perhaps you think there were too many to realistically do background checks on, and anyway, what could we have found out about them all individually? So is that an excuse to just let them all in? Sort it out afterwards? Do you think the member states of the EU prepared themselves sufficiently for it? Was there enough consultation on how it should be handled? Should the people of Europe have been asked what they thought? Does the EU give enough support to the countries on the 'front line'? Greece, Italy? Is it right to punish those countries who close their borders to the flood? By what right?


Tbh, I'm not fully in either camp. But that's another problem with the EU. In many ways, it is not flexible enough towards its members. And this is why some perceive that its future is as a Super State. With such attitudes, how could it be otherwise?


What do Brexiteers want? They want what anybody else wants, but they want the decisions about their future to be made closer to home than the shady dealings of Brussels, which they are told very little about. Maybe that would have been enough - to have been kept better informed. The EU says the British didn't understand what they are about. Perhaps they should have taken the time to explain it to us more clearly, or at all even, which they still haven't done. What is their end goal, in a project that is clearly still evolving? What is their plan?


But they also want their government to listen to them, to help them. At least here in the UK they can have some influence on that at election times, but they can't influence EU decisions in that way. It's hard enough for UK regions to get themselves heard at home. Even remoter government can only make that harder still. Do you think all the tendencies towards nationalism are just whimsical, occurring out of boredom? To ignore them, to ignore the issues which give rise to them, to vilify them in a knee jerk reaction, is dangerous.


But Brexit can't be seen in isolation either. It's not just Europe that is changing, but the world. Technology and communication drive things on ever faster, but people don't evolve at the same rate - can't.


They want a check on the corporate capitalism that is widening the gulf between rich and poor. The EU seems to them to exacerbate the problem, rather than address it. Oh, there have been some signs recently that they've been prepared to tinker around the edges of this. But too little, too late. Maybe they'll get to a point later where people will be happier. But if they'd listened to their people sooner, perhaps Brexit wouldn't have happened. If nothing else, it was intended as a wake-up call to the faceless politicians 'over there'. And still they show few signs of having listened. Politicians. Self-righteous, self-serving pricks. Don't blame me if I turn my back on them!


Oooh, I feel better for that  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 11:49:22 am
That's a good post. Whatever side of the debate you're on it's worth reading to the end.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 12:04:14 pm
"Side? I am on nobody's side, because no one is on my side."
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 November 2018, 12:36:32 pm
But nobody has answered any of my questions...... Which is what I expected :lol :lol


As to decisions being made closer to home. Yes absolutely, but give them a clue as to what the answers are.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 12:42:16 pm
But nobody has answered any of my questions...... Which is what I expected :lol :lol 


Because the questions are too limiting in their scope. Likewise, you haven't answered mine, which I also expected  ;)  Besides which, I was under the impression that you Remainers think you have all the answers.


Quote
As to decisions being made closer to home. Yes absolutely, but give them a clue as to what the answers are.


Go on then, I'm listening...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 03 November 2018, 12:48:17 pm

v. good post Nick. I think that eloquently expresses what a lot of us are thinking. And personally, im not answering the question because I don't feel I have justify my decisions (in any respect, not just to do with Brexit) any more than I would ask you too justify yours mate. I'm a bricklayer, not a politician. But that doesn't mean I don't get a vote, or the right to cast it however I wish. If i'm wrong, and it all goes terribly pear, then i'll be proved wrong. That's life, and thats democracy. I respect your views, they are simply not the same as mine.
I honestly think too that if they did have a second referendum, the vote for leave would be even bigger. The way the jumped up eurocrats dealing with Brexit have treated us as a country and people these last two years have left most  in no doubt as to the future if we stay in the eu. And most people in this country, particularly my generation, would rather die on our feet that live on our knees.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 12:52:17 pm
I'm not a politician, like VNA and mtread. I don't have the answers. I only see the problems. But those who claim to know better should be providing us with the answers, or else shut up and leave room for those that can.


Brexit is merely a symptom. Discussions about the Irish border, customs unions etc are only details in what should be a much wider discussion. Perhaps the EU referendum came too early. These discussions should have been had first, but not just here in the UK, nor even just in the EU. Oh, my head, it's all so big, just too big!  :lol


I should probably explain, that whilst I am in neither camp completely, my sympathies at present lie more with those that voted for Brexit.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 03 November 2018, 12:57:03 pm
lol that bit was directed at mttread. my writing skills aint all that :lol :lol :lol good job im not trying to do it for a living ….
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Bretty on 03 November 2018, 01:20:17 pm

I'd have thought house prices falling by 10% was a good thing!.


Makes them more affordable for first time buyers and doesn't affect those who already own because everyone else's drops too.


Bring it on I say.


Haha, I've heard that said a before. It makes me laugh because it defies logic. Think it through... The economic downturn will mean people are worse of with less access to credit. The result being people have less opportunity to buy houses and the prices fall.. (Cause and effect)... and you're saying it will help people to buy houses, the people that are now worse off with no access to credit.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Bretty on 03 November 2018, 01:25:32 pm
To coin a phrase, "Brexit means dogsh*t".


I was told on Thursday I am being made redundant as a direct result of the economic contraction anticipated as a result of Brexit.


Our currency crashing makes the international company I work for less profitable for investers. The slowing of the UK economy also.


Oh well look on the brightside...?!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 01:39:14 pm
"Side? I am on nobody's side, because no one is on my side."
I was reccomending it to others who most definately are on one side or the other.
I wasn't suggesting that you were on a particular side.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 01:46:57 pm
To coin a phrase, "Brexit means dogsh*t".

'To coin a phrase' usually means it's a really well known one, in common usage.
I can honestly say I've never heard that specific one before :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 November 2018, 01:57:44 pm
But the customs union and the Irish border are not 'only details', they are the most important content of any deal. One affects our economic future, the other peace in Ireland.


The comments so far just appear to confirm that the Brexit vote was a negative protest vote.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 02:01:29 pm



I was told on Thursday I am being made redundant as a direct result of the economic contraction anticipated as a result of Brexit.


That is shit, and you have my sincere sympathy. Being laid off due to "anticipation" is indeed a nasty way to treat your employees, especially when no exit deal has yet been struck, so no one actually knows what things will be like. I presume they will immediately invite you back and compensate you if things go better than anticipated?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 02:10:17 pm


The comments so far just appear to confirm that the Brexit vote was a negative protest vote.


Your use of the word "just" seems rather flippant to me. If nothing changes, here in the UK, in the EU countries, around the world, expect more of the same.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 02:13:59 pm
But that doesn't mean I don't get a vote, or the right to cast it however I wish.
Quite right.
Although I've heard it said more than just a few times since the referendum, and on several occasions during the run up to it, by Remain enthusiasts, that certain groups of voters shouldn't have been allowed to paticipate.
It's mostly the younger student voters voicing the opinion that older voters should be disqualified from taking part.
Their basis for this is that the older generation tended to vote Leave in higher numbers and that it was their future that was being stymied, as they see it, by the more mature voter.
If that ain't a classic case of age discrimination I don't know what is! :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 02:16:37 pm



I was told on Thursday I am being made redundant as a direct result of the economic contraction anticipated as a result of Brexit.


That is shit, and you have my sincere sympathy. Being laid off due to "anticipation" is indeed a nasty way to treat your employees, especially when no exit deal has yet been struck, so no one actually knows what things will be like. I presume they will immediately invite you back and compensate you if things go better than anticipated?

Does it actually say.... "Anticipation Of Brexit"?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Bretty on 03 November 2018, 02:21:39 pm
Not officially..


My company are a multi-national. I have seen the forecasted figures for next year (which take into account currency changes and economic contraction).


Also there is the consideration that my company manufacture all across Europe and sell all across Europe.. ANY tariffs or logistical delays will have a direct impact.


Plus all of my whole industry anticipates a reduction in spend. Conclusion next year will be harder than this year, yet profits must be maintained. Result company wide austerity. :-(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 November 2018, 02:41:23 pm
I'm by no means being flippant. I fear the worst. If the world is voting against rather than for things all the time, we're in for a very bad time.


My sincere sympathies with you Bretty. Hopefully the government will do a good deal which will limit the damage.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Oldgit on 03 November 2018, 02:54:18 pm
Can't wait to be out of the EU, I did not vote for another government in Brussels, I voted for free trade only in1974
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Bretty on 03 November 2018, 03:02:55 pm
I appreciate the sympathies, but I'll be ok..  Alot of people won't be though.


I don't know many business looking forward to brexit. Maybe betting shops, loan sharks and alcohol retailers?! :-P
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 03:24:42 pm


I don't know many business looking forward to brexit. Maybe betting shops, loan sharks and alcohol retailers?! :-P


You've just given me an idea of what I might be able to do for work!  :thumbup   :lol


Alas, 3 years unemployed thus far here, getting in to debt with my bank now, and health problems making it difficult to know what I could do  :(  Brexit is the least of my worries!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 03:30:11 pm
yet profits must be maintained. Result company wide austerity. :-(


Something about that quote ^ bothers me  :\  If profits are maintained, someone in the company isn't being hit by the austerity, surely? At your expense by the sound of it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 03 November 2018, 03:35:36 pm
Don't want the village I live in twinned with foreigners, because we will have very little in 'Common' with them. lol! 
Now there is a thought will we as a nation remove all the twinned with signs and replace them with new ones? might cost the country a couple of quid.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 03:36:35 pm
If the world is voting against rather than for things all the time, we're in for a very bad time

They voted for DonaldTrump in America, so it's not all against. Well it was against Clinton I grant you :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 03:40:21 pm
I don't know many business looking forward to brexit. Maybe betting shops, loan sharks and alcohol retailers?! :-P
Or maybe the small businesses that can't cope with or afford the overwhelming amounts of business regulations that Brussels implements upon them?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 03:44:35 pm
If the world is voting against rather than for things all the time, we're in for a very bad time

They voted for DonaldTrump in America, so it's not all against. Well it was against Clinton I grant you :lol


Yes, it was a bit of a dumb thing to say really. If you're voting, presumably you have been given a choice of things to vote for. So if you're voting for one thing, you must be voting against another!
Those damn Remainers are all so negative, voting against Brexit!  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 November 2018, 03:50:57 pm
Quote
They voted [/size]for [/size]DonaldTrump in America, so it's not all against. Well it was against Clinton I grant you [/size]

Actually, Clinton won more votes than Trump. It was the peculiarities of their electoral college system that got Trump in. If they'd used the same system as our referendum, she'd be in  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 04:22:38 pm
Quote
They voted for DonaldTrump in America, so it's not all against. Well it was against Clinton I grant you

Actually, Clinton won more votes than Trump. It was the peculiarities of their electoral college system that got Trump in. If they'd used the same system as our referendum, she'd be in  :D



I'm sure there's a practical point to that argument. Damned if I can figure out what it is though  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 04:34:39 pm
Those damn Remainers are all so negative, voting against Brexit!  :lol
:lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 04:36:11 pm
Quote
They voted for DonaldTrump in America, so it's not all against. Well it was against Clinton I grant you

Actually, Clinton won more votes than Trump. It was the peculiarities of their electoral college system that got Trump in. If they'd used the same system as our referendum, she'd be in  :D

Thank goodness for the peculiarities of life! :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 04:42:01 pm
I'm by no means being flippant. I fear the worst.

Hoping for the worst if you don't get your Peoples Vote/Second Referendum and Brexit is enacted more like ;)
 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 04:58:46 pm
I think we should have another referendum to decide if we want another referendum about having another referendum.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 November 2018, 05:40:25 pm
Quote
I'm sure there's a practical point to that argument. Damned if I can figure out what it is though 



It's a simple one. Despite the will of the people, shit happens  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Millietant on 03 November 2018, 09:29:18 pm
Not officially..

My company are a multi-national. I have seen the forecasted figures for next year (which take into account currency changes and economic contraction).

Also there is the consideration that my company manufacture all across Europe and sell all across Europe.. ANY tariffs or logistical delays will have a direct impact.

Plus all of my whole industry anticipates a reduction in spend. Conclusion next year will be harder than this year, yet profits must be maintained. Result company wide austerity. :-(


So, a multi national company that makes and sells all across Europe sees its whole industry predicting a reduction in spend and yet they only single out Brexit as the cause....more jumping on the bandwagon. I do feel sorry for you Brett, speaking as someone who was made redundant at 56 two years ago.


The only uncertainty about Brexit is that being peddled by the vocal minority (the constantly complaining Remain voters, as opposed to those Remain voters who have accepted the result of the real People's Vote that we had a while back) who are determined to undermine both the democratic wish of the majority of those who could actually get off their backsides and vote, and the success of our transition out of the EU. Having a united face in front of the EU would undoubtedly strengthen our chances of getting the best deal possible, everything else just strengthens our opponents negotiating position.


Those who didn't vote KNEW that this was to be their one and only chance to vote on Brexit. They CHOSE to abstain and I believe none of them felt forced NOT to vote.


So, what we have is the minority trying to undermine the democratically determined will of the people in a vote where their decision to partake placed upon them the responsibility to abide by and support the outcome, whether it was in their favour, or not.


The vocal minority crying out for a second vote are simply trying to undermine our basic democratic system, just because they wanted the ice cream and didn't get it.


Now can we get back to the original thread intention please and hopefully find some help for Bretty.


Oh crap .... too much JD.....I'm all confused about which thread I'm on now  :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 03 November 2018, 10:03:25 pm
Well said Millietant, and all in the right place except for the part about helping Bretty, who, nevertheless, I'm sure we all wish the best for.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 November 2018, 10:15:22 pm

Those who didn't vote KNEW that this was to be their one and only chance to vote on Brexit. They CHOSE to abstain and I believe none of them felt forced NOT to vote.


There's a Remainer that regularly writes into my local paper and he always includes the portion of the electorate that didn't bother to vote in his remain figures :lol . The theory being that they also didn't vote for Leave.


By the same token they also didn't vote for Remain did they.


The fact of the matter is they couldn't be bothered to get off their arses to vote either way, so by definition they're happy to let those of us that did decide for them :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 03 November 2018, 11:02:56 pm
Not officially..

My company are a multi-national. I have seen the forecasted figures for next year (which take into account currency changes and economic contraction).

Also there is the consideration that my company manufacture all across Europe and sell all across Europe.. ANY tariffs or logistical delays will have a direct impact.

Plus all of my whole industry anticipates a reduction in spend. Conclusion next year will be harder than this year, yet profits must be maintained. Result company wide austerity. :-(


So, a multi national company that makes and sells all across Europe sees its whole industry predicting a reduction in spend and yet they only single out Brexit as the cause....more jumping on the bandwagon. I do feel sorry for you Brett, speaking as someone who was made redundant at 56 two years ago.


The only uncertainty about Brexit is that being peddled by the vocal minority (the constantly complaining Remain voters, as opposed to those Remain voters who have accepted the result of the real People's Vote that we had a while back) who are determined to undermine both the democratic wish of the majority of those who could actually get off their backsides and vote, and the success of our transition out of the EU. Having a united face in front of the EU would undoubtedly strengthen our chances of getting the best deal possible, everything else just strengthens our opponents negotiating position.


Those who didn't vote KNEW that this was to be their one and only chance to vote on Brexit. They CHOSE to abstain and I believe none of them felt forced NOT to vote.


So, what we have is the minority trying to undermine the democratically determined will of the people in a vote where their decision to partake placed upon them the responsibility to abide by and support the outcome, whether it was in their favour, or not.


The vocal minority crying out for a second vote are simply trying to undermine our basic democratic system, just because they wanted the ice cream and didn't get it.


Now can we get back to the original thread intention please and hopefully find some help for Bretty.


Oh crap .... too much JD.....I'm all confused about which thread I'm on now  :lol :lol :lol
Despite the JD or helped by it-- either way brilliant, I am with you.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 12:37:04 am
Quote
The only uncertainty about Brexit is that being peddled by the vocal minority
The only uncertainty about Brexit is that there is no certainty. Will somebody please tell me what they want  :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Slaninar on 04 November 2018, 07:03:18 am
I think there's no need to worry about this. Propaganda will get the majority to vote in whichever way suits the big capital best - people are easily manipulated and media is a very powerful tool.

My impression is, in the long run, "ordinary/working class" will have less and less as years go by. Just gradually, so there are no riots.

Did the number of say school teacher monthly pays to buy a flat, or a car increase, or decrease from, say 1998, 2008?
What about the living costs - heating, bills, food - percentage of monthly pay to pay for it rises, or drops?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 08:15:02 am
The only uncertainty about Brexit is that there is no certainty. Will somebody please tell me what they want  :'(
I'll have a go :D ....I don't want the unelected Junckers and the other unelected commisioners proposing the legislation that eventually ends up becoming law in this country.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 08:58:28 am
You want a don't want? Your Christmas list should be very useful  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 09:50:05 am
 :lol . I'm only asking Santa for one present this year.....Brexit! :woot
OK, I want the UK to take back control of the process of proposing legislation which evenually becomes law from the unelected Junckers and the other unelected commisioners :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Bretty on 04 November 2018, 10:20:27 am
Don't talk about me. :-) I'm not after sympathy, just giving you my perspective on Brexit.


I was working for a big (french) multinational corporation when the original brexit vote happened. The 20% devaluation of the pound scrubbed £200mil off the value of the UK business overnight  :eek . In my team alone, they put 70 jobs at risk and reduced the team to 35, with further cuts to follow! I left.


Now I'm at a big american corporation. They look at the UK as their European headquarters, all senior management speak English and the company is the hub for free trade into and around Europe. Now Brexit means Britain is no longer considered a hub of Europe, they will be stripping the company with the intention of devaluing and selling it.
Hence the redundancies.


Anyway, that's just my personal perspective, which just happens to be negative. Perhaps some people can tell us how they have been positively affected and cheer us all (well me) up.  :b :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 10:29:20 am
Don't talk about me. :-) I'm not after sympathy, just giving you my perspective on Brexit.


I was working for a big (french) multinational corporation when the original brexit vote happened. The 20% devaluation of the pound scrubbed £200mil off the value of the UK business overnight  :eek . [size=78%] In my team alone, they put 70 jobs at risk and reduced the team to 35, with further cuts to follow! I left.[/size]


Now I'm at a big american corporation. They look at the UK as their European headquarters, all senior management speak English and the company is the hub for free trade into and around Europe. Now Brexit means Britain is no longer considered a hub of Europe, they will be stripping the company with the intention of devaluing and selling it.
Hence the redundancies.


Anyway, that's just my personal perspective, which just happens to be negative. Perhaps some people can tell us how they have been positively affected and cheer us all (well me) up.  :b :D

Just out of interest, what's your job title/proffesion?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Bretty on 04 November 2018, 10:47:51 am
Technical Sales.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 11:05:18 am
 Some employers have a much better working relationship with unions than others.
I think I'm right in saying, one of the other posters can confirm this I expect, that the company have to recognise the union but they're not obliged to negotiate with them. Obviously that would make resolving an issue more problematic.

I'm a long standing union member and they have an office within the premises and an excellent working relationship with the employer.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 11:27:28 am
Compulsory recognition depends upon the proportion of the workforce that joins or wants to join
 
https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/statutory-recognition (https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/statutory-recognition)


As said, no employer has to negotiate at any time, and there are separate laws about official industrial action.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 11:36:36 am
Yes it's not straightforward is it. I didn't realise it was quite as complicated as that though :eek .
I think in general unions have/had a much stonger prescence in the manual/factory industrys where the workforce has had to fight so much harder to gain decent employment conditions and wages etc...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 11:43:54 am
Perhaps some people can tell us how they have been positively affected and cheer us all (well me) up.  :b :D


It hasn't happened yet.
It's a big change, the effects likely won't be properly assessable for a quite a while, maybe years. I suspect we will lose out with some things, gain with others. But the point is, we will stand or fall on our own merits. And if we fall, it will likely be no more than we deserve, judging by the comments of many Remainers, who I suspect will behave like lemmings and off themselves over the cliff edge, rather than having any interest in striving to make their country work. I can't quite understand why VNA thinks that - what I've highlighted in bold - is ok for Scotland, but not for the UK as a whole.


But then, the Scottish Nationalists say they want to make their own decisions, but then turn about 180degrees and say they want to be in the EU, where they won't get to do that anyway. Besides which, nationalism is generally a dirty word lately isn't it? As far as most of the media is concerned anyway, and the Scots Nats. have adopted it as their mantra. A very confused bunch if you ask me, but hey-ho.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 12:01:41 pm
You are right, some of the consequences won't be realised for years, but some are already. As Bretty has said, the devaluation of the £ is already leading to job losses.


And yes we will stand or fall on our own merits. Isn't that exactly what the SNP in Scotland wants to do?


Incidentally we are already arranging to transfer EU laws into UK legislation. So perhaps we won't be quite so independent after all  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 12:03:26 pm
The only uncertainty about Brexit is that there is no certainty. Will somebody please tell me what they want  :'(


The only reason you don't understand what Brexiteers want is because you ask the questions but are not prepared to listen to the answers. Plenty have virtually spelled it out for you in this very thread. You are not interested in what Brexiteers want, only in what you perceive you can get for yourself within the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 12:08:49 pm
You are right, some of the consequences won't be realised for years, but some are already. As Bretty has said, the devaluation of the £ is already leading to job losses.


And for you, the short term is more important than the long term. Fair enough.


Quote
And yes we will stand or fall on our own merits. Isn't that exactly what the SNP in Scotland wants to do?


And now you have proved that you don't listen to anyone who doesn't share your view. Did I not just talk about the dilemma Scottish Nationalists will find themselves in because they want to remain in the EU? And it is well to remember that not all Scots support the SNP, nor are all Scots Remainers.


Quote
Incidentally we are already arranging to transfer EU laws into UK legislation. So perhaps we won't be quite so independent after all  :)


Transitional, and will retain those that continue to work in our interests. If not, then I suspect there will be trouble.


Good grief, is it that you are that hard of understanding? At least I understand why Remainers wish to stay in the EU. I just don't agree with them on a number of things (I agree on others).
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 12:33:08 pm
Sublime ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 12:40:56 pm
Did anyone else see Andrew Marr interviewing Arron Banks on his BBC1 show this morning?.
Crickey Marr worked himself up into a tizzy!. I just wanted to tell him to calm down and relax a bit like Banks.
I don't think it can do anyone any good to get that worked up over it all :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 12:55:35 pm
Did anyone else see Andrew Marr interviewing Arron Banks on his BBC1 show this morning?.
Crickey Marr worked himself up into a tizzy!. I just wanted to tell him to calm down and relax a bit like Banks.
I don't think it can do anyone any good to get that worked up over it all :eek


I didn't see it, but Marr used to have my respect as a journalist (and his recent series on The History of the World was excellent). If he is going that way too - and just after we got rid of that idiot Evan Davies from Newsnight, leaving only Emily Meritless to go - then I despair of the BBC. Although many did years ago.
Still, they still have Mark Urban, ex-Army tank officer, who is adopting more responsibility for presenting lately. Perhaps with his background, he'll be a bit more non-partisan, less "OMG!!!!!!" emotional (and he has written some good books on military history and presented a good documentary on tank warfare in WW2 too).
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 01:18:42 pm
Quote
The only reason you don't understand what Brexiteers want is because you ask the questions but are not prepared to listen to the answers. Plenty have virtually spelled it out for you in this very thread. You are not interested in what Brexiteers want, only in what you perceive you can get for yourself within
That's crap. At the beginning I asked two straightforward questions. 1. What should our future trading relationship be with the EU. 2. What should be done about the Irish Border. Nobody has answered either of those. Perhaps it's because the answers are embarrassing. All Brexiteers do is say 'We won,  on repeat until red in the face'
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 01:25:09 pm
I think there's no need to worry about this. Propaganda will get the majority to vote in whichever way suits the big capital best - people are easily manipulated and media is a very powerful tool.


Call me a cynic (YOU'RE A CYNIC!  :lol ), but what I see happening right now, is that businessmen, and especially the big corporations are fighting tooth and nail against Brexit because it does not seem in their interests. But then, they do not think about the interests of anyone but themselves and their shareholders, as Bretty is finding out. They have very carefully been manipulating their workforce, threatening them with redundancy if you don't back their side. But will your wages rise significantly if you back them? No, they won't. But the top fat cats will get richer still off your backs, that much you can guarantee. If you only care about those who get rich off the backs of everyone else, continue to campaign for the annulification of the referendum result. But if you care about normal, everyday people, back Brexit!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 01:26:15 pm
Quote
The only reason you don't understand what Brexiteers want is because you ask the questions but are not prepared to listen to the answers. Plenty have virtually spelled it out for you in this very thread. You are not interested in what Brexiteers want, only in what you perceive you can get for yourself within
That's crap. At the beginning I asked two straightforward questions. 1. What should our future trading relationship be with the EU. 2. What should be done about the Irish Border. Nobody has answered either of those. Perhaps it's because the answers are embarrassing. All Brexiteers do is say 'We won,  on repeat until red in the face'


Simple. Trading should carry on as normal.
N.I. should be handed over to the EU, lock, stock, and Armalite (oops, bit too cynical there!  :lol ) barrel.


HTH.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 02:14:34 pm
Did anyone else see Andrew Marr interviewing Arron Banks on his BBC1 show this morning?.
Crickey Marr worked himself up into a tizzy!. I just wanted to tell him to calm down and relax a bit like Banks.
I don't think it can do anyone any good to get that worked up over it all :eek


I didn't see it, but Marr used to have my respect as a journalist (and his recent series on The History of the World was excellent). If he is going that way too - and just after we got rid of that idiot Evan Davies from Newsnight, leaving only Emily Meritless to go - then I despair of the BBC. Although many did years ago.
Still, they still have Mark Urban, ex-Army tank officer, who is adopting more responsibility for presenting lately. Perhaps with his background, he'll be a bit more non-partisan, less "OMG!!!!!!" emotional (and he has written some good books on military history and presented a good documentary on tank warfare in WW2 too).

I think every presenter of BBC news/current affairs/debate programmes should be impartial and all pannelists should be given equal time.
I've heard a rumour that Victoria Derbyshire is being mooted as the replacement host when David Dimbleby retires from 'Question Time' soon. That'l be the last time I tune into that show if there's any truth in that rumour :lol
I find some of the 'topical comedy show's' unwatchable/listenable now. 'Have I Got News For You' on BBC1 and 'The News Quiz' on Radio4 are a couple of good examples. The mickey taking should be split 50/50 between left and right. Goodness knows what the figure for The News Quiz is. Must be something like 90/10!. You really don't need me to tell you which way that's split do you? :lol . It makes them boring IMHO :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 02:26:13 pm
You should try watching Ch4 news if you like a good comedy. Jon "High'n'Mighty' Snow is hilarious!
My view is simple. If you are going to invite a guest on to speak, then let them speak. If you just want to shout them down, don't be so rude and arrogant as to invite them on in the first place. And if you want to be impartial, invite on those you may not agree with as well as those you do, however disreputable they may be, if they are making the news in a significant way.
If you want to air a BBC (or whoever) opinions program, then it should be called just that, not thinly disguised as being an impartial (what a hoot!) news program.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 02:27:44 pm
Quote
Simple. Trading should carry on as normal.N.I. should be handed over to the EU, lock, stock, and Armalite (oops, bit too cynical there!   ) barrel.



Thank you...  :) Two small problemettes.
1. 'As normal' means tariff free and control free. We would have to join a Customs Union with the EU, and for that we would have to pay and take rules from them. It's called EFTA. Some Brexiteers don't like that
2. It all kicks off again, including bombing the UK (possibly by both sides)
Glad we've got that sorted....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 02:33:48 pm
I've heard that Arron Banks' next interview is going to be broadcast on Wormwood Scrubs radio  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 02:34:24 pm
You should try watching Ch4 news if you like a good comedy. Jon "High'n'Mighty' Snow is hilarious!
My view is simple. If you are going to invite a guest on to speak, then let them speak. If you just want to shout them down, don't be so rude and arrogant as to invite them on in the first place. And if you want to be impartial, invite on those you may not agree with as well as those you do, however disreputable they may be, if they are making the news in a significant way.
If you want to air a BBC (or whoever) opinions program, then it should be called just that, not thinly disguised as being an impartial (what a hoot!) news program.
I agree, but with a small caveat...sometimes the interviewer has no choice but to interupt because, and this applies almost exclusively to politicians, often the person being interviewed will keep deliberately drifting off-topic in order to avoid answering the actual question.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 02:37:12 pm
I've heard that Arron Banks' next interview is going to be broadcast on Wormwood Scrubs radio  :lol

Who told you that?. Andrew Marr? :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 02:43:49 pm
Quote
Simple. Trading should carry on as normal.N.I. should be handed over to the EU, lock, stock, and Armalite (oops, bit too cynical there!   ) barrel.



Thank you...  :) Two small problemettes.
1. 'As normal' means tariff free and control free. We would have to join a Customs Union with the EU, and for that we would have to pay and take rules from them. It's called EFTA. Some Brexiteers don't like that

Why? In practical terms?

Quote
2. It all kicks off again, including bombing the UK (possibly by both sides)
Glad we've got that sorted....

You are saying we should allow ourselves to be held to ransom by such people who would resort to terrorism.
Plenty would say it never ended. Violent sectarianism is still a fact there, and it has been reported it is on the rise again anyway.
The people of N.I. voted to remain in the EU. Let them, I say. Then the EU can be the ones who deal with all that sectarian nonsense. Not to mention N.I. is a net drain on the UK economy. Nothing-but-nothing-but win!  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 02:49:17 pm

Quote
Who told you that?. Andrew Marr?



No, Crapper of the Yard  :) 


https://news.sky.com/story/national-crime-agency-launches-investigation-into-arron-banks-11541786

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 02:58:41 pm
Quote
Why? In practical terms?


Because it takes two to agree a deal, and the EU will insist on conditions. They already do for Norway and Switzerland.


Quote
[/size]You are saying we should allow ourselves to be held to ransom by such people who would resort to terrorism.Plenty would say it never ended. Violent sectarianism is still a fact there, and it has been reported it is on the rise again anyway.
The people of N.I. voted to remain in the EU. Let them, I say. Then the EU can be the ones who deal with all that sectarian nonsense. Not to mention N.I. is a net drain on the UK economy. Nothing-but-nothing-but win! 
[/font]

You and I are both old enough to remember what it was like before the Good Friday Agreement. Yes it still happens but it's nowhere near as bad now. If NI stays in the EU then the border is between NI and GB and the loyalists kick off. If it's between NI and Eire, then the Republicans kick off. A no win situation.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 03:25:28 pm
Quote
Why? In practical terms?


Because it takes two to agree a deal, and the EU will insist on conditions. They already do for Norway and Switzerland.


And there you have immediately kowtowed to them.
I asked for an explanation in practical terms, and got one in political terms. Once again showing that politics merely gets in the way of trade.
We must have the courage of our convictions and insist on our own conditions. Or it's No Deal.
The point is to negotiate a deal, not have one dictated. That is the very reason Brexiteers want out of that non-democratic shambles.


Quote

You and I are both old enough to remember what it was like before the Good Friday Agreement. Yes it still happens but it's nowhere near as bad now. If NI stays in the EU then the border is between NI and GB and the loyalists kick off. If it's between NI and Eire, then the Republicans kick off. A no win situation.



Whichever way this goes, N.I. will kick off again. Sooner or later, it would even if the referendum had never happened. Sad, but alas, that is the mentality we are dealing with, as is evidenced with the current resurgence of sectarianist views within those communities. We must surgically remove the cancer, and the EU have kindly offered to do it for us.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 03:36:16 pm

Quote
Who told you that?. Andrew Marr?



No, Crapper of the Yard  :) 


https://news.sky.com/story/national-crime-agency-launches-investigation-into-arron-banks-11541786 (https://news.sky.com/story/national-crime-agency-launches-investigation-into-arron-banks-11541786)



I'm not suggesting you think this, but there's a common misconception that they were the official leave campaign party. They weren't of course. That was the Johnson/Gove fronted 'Vote Leave'.
 We'll just have to wait and see what the outcome of the NCA investigation into Arron Banks is. I wouldn't like to make a prediction. Just don't know.

But I trust that if he's exonerated then the Reamainers are going to accept that result :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 04 November 2018, 03:55:57 pm
A thread Just for VNA..... fuck off   :lol

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 04:13:49 pm
Quote
And there you have immediately kowtowed to them. [/size]I asked for an explanation in practical terms, and got one in political terms. Once again showing that politics merely gets in the way of trade.We must have the courage of our convictions and insist on our own conditions. Or it's No Deal.The point is to negotiate a deal, not have one dictated. That is the very reason Brexiteers want out of that non-democratic shambles.

I completely agree, but politics was always going to get in the way. The EU has its own problems and giving the UK exactly what it demands was never going to happen. 'Negotiate' means to the satisfaction of both sides. If both sides want something completely different, then we have No Deal. A brave move with lots of negative consequences.


As to the Irish issue, if NI remains in the EU, Scotland will want to as well. They both had similar Remain majorities.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 04:19:17 pm
Quote
But I trust that if he's exonerated then the Reamainers are going to accept that result

Of course  :lol I know very well Leave EU wasn't the official Leave campaign, but they were subject to the same Electoral Commission rules as the other campaigns. And it looks very much like they cheated.


I must admit, I would like to see that smug git put away. Best he avoids the showers. There's a big Greek prisoner that would like to have a few words with him :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 04:22:41 pm
Quote
And there you have immediately kowtowed to them. I asked for an explanation in practical terms, and got one in political terms. Once again showing that politics merely gets in the way of trade.We must have the courage of our convictions and insist on our own conditions. Or it's No Deal.The point is to negotiate a deal, not have one dictated. That is the very reason Brexiteers want out of that non-democratic shambles.

I completely agree, but politics was always going to get in the way.


Then it is time for a new kind of politics. One that doesn't exist for its own sake. We in the UK are not the only ones thinking that. Unfortunately, in the US, they felt Trump was the only alternative, and here, we felt Brexit was the only alternative - in the face of the intransigence of our consecutive political classes.


Quote
The EU has its own problems and giving the UK exactly what it demands was never going to happen. 'Negotiate' means to the satisfaction of both sides. If both sides want something completely different, then we have No Deal. A brave move with lots of negative consequences.


But the EU is not negotiating. It is trying to dictate.


Quote
As to the Irish issue, if NI remains in the EU, Scotland will want to as well. They both had similar Remain majorities.


That's what the SNP wants anyway. Is Scotland a net contributor to the UK economy?


BTW, what the foc is going on with the font size around here? Grrrr, bloody Brexit!  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 04:32:49 pm
A thread Just for VNA..... fuck off   :lol


Good, innit  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 04:56:11 pm
A thread Just for VNA..... fuck off   :lol


Good, innit  :lol
:lol He won't post on the subject now it's been syphoned off into the custom built thread. He's already tried to shift it back into 'Today's what gets my goat', but no-one would fall for it.
I like it in here. It's a good laugh....most of the time :wall :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 04 November 2018, 05:40:51 pm
I here's me being nice putting a thread up for poor old VNA now he can't get a word in edge ways on his own thread. Still I'm enjoying reading the many and varied observations on Brexit from both sides of the argument. I'm waiting to see if May is a Chamberlin or a Churchill are we going to appease Europe or fight. As for the troubles returning to NI I remember them well, but as for us dealing with them again not sure the squaddies would want to do that and then face persecution (and yes I do mean persecution not prosecution) 40/50 years later when the terrorists are given a get out of jail free card.         
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 05:53:09 pm
As for the troubles returning to NI I remember them well, but as for us dealing with them again not sure the squaddies would want to do that and then face persecution (and yes I do mean persecution not prosecution) 40/50 years later when the terrorists are given a get out of jail free card.       


That's my point Steve: hand it over to the EU, where the majority of the N.I. population wants to be, and wash our hands of the whole sorry mess. Then it would be the EU's responsibility to contain the inevitable violence, and good luck to them frankly. Maybe they can do a better job than we did.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 04 November 2018, 06:04:28 pm
Not many remembering all the redundancies that occured after we joined the EU then! Hundreds of thousnads, across many industries, as companies moved thier business to Europe and we were forced to privatise our state owned enterprises, with only the NHS surviving the cherry picking
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 04 November 2018, 07:19:21 pm
A thread Just for VNA..... fuck off   :lol


Good, innit  :lol
:lol He won't post on the subject now it's been syphoned off into the custom built thread. He's already tried to shift it back into 'Today's what gets my goat', but no-one would fall for it.
I like it in here. It's a good laugh....most of the time :wall :lol


I could not agree more, in fact it has been very informative reading theses posts and I feel as if I have gained some real insight and understanding, so please try to ignor the piss taking, I just can’t help it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 07:49:35 pm
Quote
and we were forced to privatise our state owned enterprises, with only the NHS surviving the cherry picking
Huh?  :rolleyes I think you will find France and Germany have hung on to most of their state owned enterprises. In fact they are running ours. I think you are mistaking the EU for the Tories who privatised them (telecoms, energy, water, trains - shall I go on?)


As to NI, yes hand it over to the EU, but the bombs will go off here.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 07:51:45 pm
Quote
in fact it has been very informative reading theses posts and I feel as if I have gained some real insight and understanding,
Thank you for the compliment  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 08:04:53 pm


As to NI, yes hand it over to the EU, but the bombs will go off here.


You mean from the Unionists? Well, we will just have to do our best to prevent that, as we do with Islamic extremists in our midst. Plus, with N.I. in EU hands, we can then bring diplomatic (and if required, other kinds of) pressure to bear on the EU to control their unruly, home-grown terrorists.


Also, if the Unionists started to carry out terrorist acts in the UK, what would they hope to achieve? Readmission to the Union? Would they really be so daft as to think they could achieve that by terrorism?
And, if you think that would be the likely scenario, do you really actually want N.I. as a UK responsibility? Knowing that this is why you keep them? Foc that, ungrateful bastards.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 08:11:22 pm
Terrorists are daft by definition. We will have 'betrayed them'.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 08:11:43 pm
I think you are mistaking the EU for the Tories who privatised them (telecoms, energy, water, trains - shall I go on?)
None of the big essential industrys/services should ever have been de-nationalised. I've never agreed with that Conservative Party policy.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 08:15:36 pm
Quote
in fact it has been very informative reading theses posts and I feel as if I have gained some real insight and understanding,
Thank you for the compliment  :lol
I suspect that's a continuation of the piss taking ;) :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 08:44:12 pm
Terrorists are daft by definition. We will have 'betrayed them'.


But if we followed your logic, the terrorists would win. We would simply capitulate to their demands. Personally, I'm a firm believer in not giving in to terrorism, no matter what. There are other things I would not give into either. Like the dictates of the EU.
And here's me with the dodgy back, yet it's the Remainers who are spineless  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 08:45:41 pm
Quote
I suspect that's a continuation of the piss taking [/size]

Yes but........ I like informed debate. This country is divided down the middle like never before. Both left and right are taking both sides of the Brexit choice. As has been said here, people are fed up with their lot and the establishment that enforces it. That's worldwide. Like the industrial revolution, automation is now a significant shift. I for one, cannot understand why we are all still working a 5 day week.
The times they are a'changing.....  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 08:49:48 pm
Quote
But if we followed your logic, the terrorists would win. We would simply capitulate to their demands.
Wasps will leave you alone. What you don't do is prod their nest with a stick  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 08:52:52 pm
Quote
I suspect that's a continuation of the piss taking

Yes but........ I like informed debate. This country is divided down the middle like never before. Both left and right are taking both sides of the Brexit choice. As has been said here, people are fed up with their lot and the establishment that enforces it. That's worldwide. Like the industrial revolution, automation is now a significant shift. I for one, cannot understand why we are all still working a 5 day week.
The times they are a'changing.....  :)



It's interesting to note there has been some (admittedly very limited) discussion about minimum 'wages' for those not in work in the scenario of automation replacing more and more people in the work place. If the trend continues, it will be time to leave behind the stigma of unemployment, and actually embrace it - isn't it, as you suggest, the whole point of automation?
Although, you ask why we are still working a 5 day week - I'm just wishing I could  :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 04 November 2018, 08:54:27 pm
Quote
But if we followed your logic, the terrorists would win. We would simply capitulate to their demands.
Wasps will leave you alone. What you don't do is prod their nest with a stick  :lol


Nope. Bees will leave you alone. Wasps are vindictive little bastards that will sting you without reason  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 08:59:23 pm
Quote
- isn't it, as you suggest, the whole point of automation?
Known as the 'Jetsons Scenario' (if you remember them). We were promised that automation would be so far developed, that life would be all leisure, and we wouldn't have to work at all. We're still waiting.  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 10:27:20 pm

Quote
I suspect that's a continuation of the piss taking

Yes but........ I like informed debate.



I was referring to the tommyardin post not your reply to it ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 November 2018, 10:59:43 pm
Quote
I was referring to the tommyardin post not your reply to it [/size]

Sorry, is that again you piss taking?  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 November 2018, 11:31:35 pm
Quote
I was referring to the tommyardin post not your reply to it

Sorry, is that again you piss taking?  ;)

NO! :wall :lol
I could not agree more, in fact it has been very informative reading theses posts and I feel as if I have gained some real insight and understanding, so please try to ignor the piss taking, I just can’t help it.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 November 2018, 08:53:43 am

Quote
But I trust that if he's exonerated then the Reamainers are going to accept that result

Of course  :lol I know very well Leave EU wasn't the official Leave campaign, but they were subject to the same Electoral Commission rules as the other campaigns. And it looks very much like they cheated.


I must admit, I would like to see that smug git put away. Best he avoids the showers. There's a big Greek prisoner that would like to have a few words with him :rollin



Blimey you make Judge Jeffries and Matthew Hopkins appear moderate and restrained :lol

You'd have him strapped in the ducking stool and dipped in and out of the river more times than a ducks beak before the NCA had even knocked on the door :lol


Until they've completed their investigations we simply cannot know either way. Like I say, I'd make no predictions whatsoever, but I'll accept their judgment however it turns out.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 05 November 2018, 11:33:19 am
If found guilty, apply the appropriate punishment. Then let's get on with Brexit. We already know both sides of the campaign were disingenuous. It's no use feigning outrage about it now.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 November 2018, 11:58:27 am
Ah, but only one side (allegedly) actually broke the law :stop
Anyway, he's now a Remainer :)
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1040630/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Arron-Banks-deal-latest-2016-referendum-vote-Theresa-May (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1040630/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Arron-Banks-deal-latest-2016-referendum-vote-Theresa-May)
Re-run anybody?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 05 November 2018, 01:13:57 pm
Re-run anybody?  :lol


Let's face it, that's all this is about. No one really cares about stupid Aaron Banks.
Dream on!


Besides which, as I have already suggested, he's not on my side, and i'm not on his. He cares about himself, he's wealthy and I'm sure will be just fine in or out of the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 November 2018, 09:04:56 pm
Re-run anybody?  :lol

I think I may have some good news for you. I'm not sure where I was or what I was doing when it happpened, but I reckon I've somehow missed a second referendum :eek .
Just caught the end of 'Brexit: What the Nation Really Thinks' on channel 4 and they were showing some Leave/Remain results and declaring a Remain victory and asking the panel what they're next move will be now, accompanied by victorious whooping and hollering from the audience. The presenter looked as pleased as punch and could barely contain his joy.

Looks like we're back in after all :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 05 November 2018, 09:15:34 pm
Yeah, I kind of half watched that.
People on both sides made some good points. But much was also missed, and some made as clear as mud.


For instance, "do you think Britain will be better or worse off?"
Well, do you mean in the long or short term? Short term, probably a bit worse off. And that's all most people are thinking about. That's not surprising, because they can't accurately predict even the shortest term it seems.
Long term, depends on what sort of governments we have, what happens in the rest of the world...as much potential as anyone else to be better off.
BUT...that's not the point, is it? The point is, we do want to make our own laws, we do want to decide for ourselves who comes in to the country, we do want to cut our own trade deals around the world.


What this just reinforced is that Remain is about business. It is not about people. If you think business is all there is to the world, sure, campaign to remain. But remember that the tendency is for business to benefit fewer and fewer people. It has had long enough, more than long enough, to prove otherwise, if it were going to do so.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 November 2018, 09:59:21 pm
Quote
Looks like we're back in after all

You're right I did miss it. I also missed the Strickly Come Dancing result, which probably has about as much legitimacy  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 09 November 2018, 08:33:05 pm

I saw a thing today about a 16 year old giving a speech about 16 year olds getting the right to vote. I think thats ridiculous because they havnt got a clue and don't pay taxes etc etc. But then I would, I'm an old man.
So considering its been my country for nearly sixty years am I right to think like that? I'm starting to think not, in truth. Its gonna be their country for a lot longer than i'll be alive. Ive had my time, but now im in a minority.
And this is what troubles me about Brexit.
I voted to leave and i'll always want that no matter what the consequences. I hated the way the EU treated us so dismissively before the referendum, and then how much further they have taken it since. I hated the way politicians like blair and Cameron simply disregarded that huge majority of us that just wanted them to listen, instead of dictate what we should think and feel, and then brand us as racist, xenophobic fruitcakes for not toeing their company line and agenda, having concerns they considered beneath them to even think about let alone allow discussion.
I freely admit, I want a Britain that is European, just as it always was a long long time before the common market but that still has its own sovereign identity, makes its own laws, and sets out is own boundaries. A Britain that doesn't kneel down and bow submissively before some jumped up power crazed little eurocrat and his ever increasing demands.
But.
A lot of the young seem to want that. Just as a lot of them want that terrorist loving rascally old racist Corbyn running the country. So who am I to want to stop them? it'll be their generation that reaps the whirlwind.
So now, im pretty blasé about all of it. How can you be any different? even if Brexit goes ahead, it wont be the Brexit that 52% of the country voted for. Nobody will win now, no matter what. Nobody will get what they want. Both sides will lose, because the government and those around them, and us as a nation, didn't rise to meet the challenge. Those days are gone. We are a different breed now. I sincerely believe the young don't want to lead, they just want to follow. Thats their choice, its not fr meto decry it.There was a survey the other day that said that four out of ten young people wouldnt fight for their country now.( Im guessing a lot of that is the lefts belief that it isn't our country at all, its anybodies who wants to live here.)
So when retired officers talk about there worries about us having insufficient boats planes tanks soldiers etc in the military, does it matter any more, given that as a nation it would appear we will never stand up and fight again.
Im not having a pop at the left, im really not. They are just as entitled to their opinions as I am mine.
And im not saying id ever do anything other than stand by the decision I made to vote leave.
but what I am saying, is that if thats what the young want, given that its them that will be here after im gone, perhaps thats what they should have.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 09 November 2018, 08:40:09 pm
ps VNA if you do that thing where you pick out every single sentence from that post and then argue about it, I will personally let down the tyres of every skoda yeti oop north to make sure I get yours.. ;) ;) :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 09 November 2018, 08:45:07 pm
Tbh, I think Brexit is the least of the worries for the coming generations.
Thank foc we don't live forever!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 09 November 2018, 08:45:36 pm
amen to that mate...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 November 2018, 08:48:18 pm
I've kept out of this so far. 
Just to prove a point. 

Quote
A thread Just for VNA..... fuck off   ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

So I totally agree with Tommy :lol

And I was gonna continue to keep out of it, and anyway the title of the thread pisses me off.

But;

Quote
Just as a lot of them want that terrorist loving rascally old racist Corbyn running the country.

What the fuck?  Seriously! 


I dunno what you've been smoking Orgri.  But I can't think of many people who have campaigned against racism and for equality for as long as Mr Corbyn.  Mr Corbyn has spent his whole life campaigning against violence, injustice and war.

Corbyn is one of those rare folks of whom you all complain here does not exist.  He is genuine.  He is not in politics as you say to line his pockets or have a good time.

I mean fuck me, how can you call Mr Corbyn a racist.  Seriously Ogri - get a grip man! :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 09 November 2018, 08:53:17 pm
your absolutely right mate, What the hell was I thinking... ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 November 2018, 08:56:56 pm
Quote
your absolutely right mate, What the hell was I thinking... ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url])

Ah well.  Thank foc fae that.  Glad we got that sorted oot.   VNA can go back tae sleep again.   :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 November 2018, 01:18:11 am
Terrorist loving Corbyn? What about that terrorist loving May? Yes that's them - the DUP
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-ramsay/so-who-are-dup (https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-ramsay/so-who-are-dup)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 November 2018, 08:56:26 am

I saw a thing today about a 16 year old giving a speech about 16 year olds getting the right to vote. I think thats ridiculous because they havnt got a clue and don't pay taxes etc etc. But then I would, I'm an old man.

In the run up to and since the referendum I heard quite a number of them saying in the media that people over about 40 should be barred from voting.The theory being that the younger voters have got to live with the result for longer and that it's 'Our right to decide our future'


Nothing to do with the fact that older voters tend to vote Leave more and it would be a way of skewing the vote :lol

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 November 2018, 02:41:59 pm
Where did you hear that? I've never heard it.
Anyway, what is a fact is that since the referendum over half a million Leave voters have since died (well that was a waste of their time wasn't it) and more than half a million Remainers have reached voting age.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-remain-vote-support-against-poll-uk-europe-final-say-yougov-second-referendum-peter-a8541971.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-remain-vote-support-against-poll-uk-europe-final-say-yougov-second-referendum-peter-a8541971.html)
And from January it will be a clear win for Remain. Can't wait for the new referendum  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 10 November 2018, 02:43:29 pm
..its a brave new world... :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 10 November 2018, 02:50:14 pm
Where did you hear that? I've never heard it.
Anyway, what is a fact is that since the referendum over half a million Leave voters have since died (well that was a waste of their time wasn't it) and more than half a million Remainers have reached voting age.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-remain-vote-support-against-poll-uk-europe-final-say-yougov-second-referendum-peter-a8541971.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-remain-vote-support-against-poll-uk-europe-final-say-yougov-second-referendum-peter-a8541971.html)
And from January it will be a clear win for Remain. Can't wait for the new referendum  :D


Unfortunately, the EU referendum isn't next January. Tough old life, eh?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 10 November 2018, 02:53:30 pm

I think in the spirit of the centenary of the armistice we should all put down our rifles, meet in no mans land, swap chocolate, ( the smokers can swap fags)and have a friendly " kick about" :) :) :)










With Tony Blairs head... ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 November 2018, 04:34:52 pm
Quote
Unfortunately, the EU referendum isn't next January. Tough old life, eh? 

And we won't be leaving the EU in March...... unless May gets a majority in the Commons for her 'deal', which is looking more unlikely by the day  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 10 November 2018, 04:40:08 pm
Jeez, that was a short armistice!  :lol 


Tbh, I wouldn't want to leave on her terms. I think that's one thing more and more from both sides are in agreement with. So leaving with no deal looks ever more likely.


Thankfully, whatever the foc happens, it'll make little to no difference to me.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 November 2018, 05:43:54 pm
I think that would lead to PM resignation, vote of no confidence, General Election, and we're back to square one.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 10 November 2018, 05:57:50 pm
I think that would lead to PM resignation, vote of no confidence, General Election, and we're back to square one.


Daft, innit.


Thankfully, it still won't affect me much  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 November 2018, 11:08:20 pm
The whole idea was daft in the first place. Done to silence the Tory right and UKIP once and for all. Except it massively backfired. All about internal Tory party infighting.


And here we are. A split nation with nobody happy....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 10 November 2018, 11:19:45 pm
thats probably true of most European countries now mate, and of course the USA. Guess its just a natural progression of the human race, twats that we are.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 November 2018, 12:33:07 pm
Quote
The whole idea was daft in the first place. Done to silence the Tory right and UKIP once and for all. Except it massively backfired. All about internal Tory party infighting.


And here we are. A split nation with nobody happy....
Indeed.  Absolute utter selfishness
 It was to pull the significant extreme right wing of the party in line, and yes kill UKIP. Cameron and his buddies didn’t think for one minute what would happen if they lost the subsequent referendum.


Quote
Hundreds of thousands, across many industries, as companies moved thier business to Europe and we were forced to privatise our state-owned enterprises, with only the NHS surviving the cherry picking
This was one of the problems with the EU referendum.  We’d had some 37 odd years of right wing neo liberal governments.  Privatise everything, even schools and hospitals have been partially privatised through the PFI PPP debacles, social and care contracts privatised, our prisons privatised, social housing – everything privatised. The Tory dream of a flexible low wage economy.  Our terms and conditions slashed, pay the employee what you can get away with and maximise profit at every opportunity.  Over three decades of socialism for the rich.


None of it EU policy.  This was all done by the Tories with New Labour carrying on their work.


So no wonder people were and are pissed off.  We’ve been getting screwed for decades, even to the point we now have austerity and food banks for the hungry in nearly every major town across the country.


Given a ball to kick, well even people who had never ever voted before in their life came out registered to vote and kicked that ball hard.

 
Sadly we kicked the wrong ball.  The EU is not to blame for our ills, our own governments screwed us.


BREXIT is simply a continuation of Thatcherism, the extreme right of the Tory Party is getting it’s way.  They are going to finish the job she started, and you and I are going to pay the price.



 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 11 November 2018, 01:11:44 pm
I don't care. I'm with ogri. I want Brexit. Unfortunately for you, I got a vote too. Deal with it.  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 November 2018, 02:51:00 pm
Quote
I don't care. I'm with ogri. I want Brexit. Unfortunately for you, I got a vote too. Deal with it.  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url])

BREXIT job losses last week;
 Michelin tyres Dundee.  845 jobs to go.
Schaeffler Plymouth and Llanelli.  500 jobs to go.
Guess they will just have to deal with it too.





 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 11 November 2018, 03:01:26 pm
Sorry mate, I have my own problems far worse than just having no job. But I got a vote. I want Brexit. I might cope if we don't get Brexit, but it's not a given.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 November 2018, 09:10:28 am

Corbyn is one of those rare folks of whom you all complain here does not exist.  He is genuine. 


That's true.


I had to do a double take to make sure, but he genuinely did wear a grey hoodie anorak with the hood hanging out and a red tie for the service of remembrance at The Cenotaph yesterday.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 November 2018, 09:34:47 am
So? He's also the only one in the group who hasn't sold arms to the Saudis.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 November 2018, 09:53:48 am

I'm agreeing with VNA. I'm not offering an opinion, merely making an observation.


The bit I don't understand is why he sings the National Anthem. Isn't he a republican?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 November 2018, 11:10:53 am
He was miming. He was actually singing 'The Red Flag'  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 November 2018, 11:37:09 am
 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 12 November 2018, 02:34:56 pm
I often see Remainers say that the Brexiteers don't know what it was they were voting for. So, to be clear:


1. To be able to make our own laws without having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.
2. To be able to control immigration in a way that suits us.
3. To be able to make our own trade deals around the world.


My question is, is there anyone here who doesn't want those three things for the UK, aside, obviously, from VNA, whose only concern is Scotland, and then only those Scots who agree with him?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Slaninar on 12 November 2018, 04:44:28 pm
I often see Remainers say that the Brexiteers don't know what it was they were voting for. So, to be clear:


1. To be able to make our own laws without having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.
2. To be able to control immigration in a way that suits us.
3. To be able to make our own trade deals around the world.


My question is, is there anyone here who doesn't want those three things for the UK, aside, obviously, from VNA, whose only concern is Scotland, and then only those Scots who agree with him?
During the 90s civil wars, my city of 200.000 got around as many refugees. Didn't like the change, even though those people speak the same language. However, the alternative was even worse  - letting them die.
Another example is a sysetms administrator in my country earns up to 1000 euros per month (that's considered a top pay). Without an EU passport, you can't apply for jobs in EU countries, UK, USA and Switzerland (especially) being very tricky. So the world is still a bit like the middle ages - depending on which family you're born into determines pretty much what you can "afford".
On the other hand, let 1.000.000 of my countrymen enter Switzerland and you no longer have Switzerland.
Hence, if you include ethics into making the decision, not just money, it's even harder to be objective and wise. It's all a mess, not black and white. Especially since I think the working class of all the world's countries is opressed by the big capital. Those who started the mess in the middle east are the real problem cause IMO, the real "enemy". People destroying rivers, forrests and other countries, killing people for profit...  So whatever UK chooses, I expect it to get harder and harder to get by on an "average" wage from year to year.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 November 2018, 05:41:54 pm
Quote
1. To be able to make our own laws without having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.2. To be able to control immigration in a way that suits us.3. To be able to make our own trade deals around the world

I'll get none of things, because I didn't vote for this government. People forget that the EU is also a democracy, just a larger one. In fact my views and needs are better represented by the EU than the current UK government.
What do Remainers want
1: Be part of a trading block that has the size and power to match the rest of the world
2. Freedom of movement and opportunity for UK nationals throughout Europe
3. Continued peace in Europe
and so much more.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 12 November 2018, 06:21:44 pm

What do Remainers want
1: Be part of a trading block that has the size and power to match the rest of the world

My, that'll be a challenge! The rest of the world is a big place ;)



Quote
2. Freedom of movement and opportunity for UK nationals throughout Europe

I'd prefer to live in a country that can provide for its own.

Quote
3. Continued peace in Europe


If that can't be done outside of the EU, then it probably can't be done. At the very least, you'd have to erase all national interests. As long as there are any differences, there will be conflict. So, one language, one culture, one religion, one centre of rule etc etc. The rise of nationalist movements throughout Europe illustrates that these things are unlikely to materialise. Unless you want to try to enforce them on everyone? More likely to cause war imo.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 November 2018, 06:23:43 pm
Quote
1. To be able to make our own laws without having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.
2. To be able to control immigration in a way that suits us.
3. To be able to make our own trade deals around the world.

Obviously to have an open free trade market across 28 countries you need to have common laws.  These laws are generally made by consensus.  I’m not aware of having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.  So what are the laws that you so strongly object to?


What we are talking about is free movement across the EU.  So what exactly is the issue?


We already have trade deals across the globe as members of the EU.  After BREXIT we will end up on WTO rules and will have no trade deals.  The EU is our most important single market, and what we have decided to do is make it more difficult to trade with the EU.  I have no idea why BREXITEERS think that the UK, which doesn’t have the clout of the EU, can negotiate better deals than the EU.  Also, other countries around the globe will prioritise the EU over us – and of course the EU will always get a better deal and get it first. 



 
Meanwhile where are we with BREXIT?  Basically, running out of time.  Though at least there is a new more realistic slogan is in town.  Any deal is better than no deal.  Though of course we are potentially about to tear up the best deal of all which is the one we have.


So with time fast running out……….. The government is looking increasingly unable to come to any agreed position.  The DUP will bring down the government if there is a border between the UK and Northern Ireland.  A border between NI and EIRE is not even worth thinking about.  The government won’t call a general election as they would expect to loose it, but they will point to the fixed term act as a means to clinging to power despite not being able to actually govern. 



With a government unable to come up with a deal.  And even if they could, a parliament that is unlikely to accept any deal, the only way out of this mess may be to return to the people.


BREXIT is a nightmare.



 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 12 November 2018, 07:11:47 pm
Quote
1. To be able to make our own laws without having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.
2. To be able to control immigration in a way that suits us.
3. To be able to make our own trade deals around the world.

Obviously to have an open free trade market across 28 countries you need to have common TRADE laws.


FTFY.


Quote
the EU will get a better deal if/when all members finally get around to agreeing with each other, which can take years


FTFY


We were given a vote. The MAJORITY OF VOTERS chose Brexit. The politicians said they would implement the voters' will. In a democracy, that means the will of the MAJORITY.


I'm not against a further vote on the nature of the deal. But such a vote should not include the option of a rerun on the original question - in or out. We voted out. (Yes, yes, I know, Scotland didn't - so vote for Scottish Independence and stop messing about).
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 12 November 2018, 07:15:53 pm
Why the need for common laws to trade? We traded with Europe long before we joined the EU

Free movement across europe? Weve always had it before we joined the EU. I took several continental holidays in the late 60s, just had to show a passport, thats all. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 November 2018, 07:45:01 pm
 
Quote
Why the need for common laws to trade? We traded with Europe long before we joined the EU


You can’t have a common market without common rules.  It is not possible.  Simple.
As I have pointed out numerous times, the EU is 28 countries with one single market place.  What we had before was 28 sperate laws, 28 separate customs, 28 separate standards, and so on and so on.  I have no idea why we would not want to be part of that.

And whatever sort of BREXIT we get, though my money has always been on article 50 eventually being binned, we will have to continue to abide with EU rules if we wish to tarde with them.  But we will have no say or influence in those rules.

Quote
Free movement across europe? Weve always had it before we joined the EU. I took several continental holidays in the late 60s, just had to show a passport, thats all. 
You had no right to live, work or retire there.  That’s what we have now.
 

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 November 2018, 07:54:37 pm
 A referendum that should have never taken place. We are a representative democracy. 
Nobody can agree what BREXIT is.  So, nobody can implement what nobody can agree on. 
As the only solution is to reject BREXIT.  Any referendum has to offer the opportunity to ditch BREXIT. 

The majority of people in the UK today clearly dont want BREXIT.
Lets get on with it, have a re-run.  Job done.  Back to normal.
Not to mention binning BREXIT means a stronger economy, a stronger pound, which means cheaper bikes.


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 12 November 2018, 07:58:31 pm
A referendum that should have never taken place.


In your opinion.


Quote
We are a representative democracy.


We won't be if Brexit is just ditched.



Quote
The majority of people in the UK today clearly dont want BREXIT.


Proof?

Lets not get on with a re-run.  The job was done.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 12 November 2018, 07:59:40 pm
You had no right to live, work or retire there.  That’s what we have now.


Scotland not good enough for you, eh?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 November 2018, 08:11:48 pm
Quote
Why the need for common laws to trade? We traded with Europe long before we joined the EU
Yes it was called EFTA, based around a common Customs Area. It still exists and Theresa May has ruled us out of it. So yes we can trade with Europe, and pay duties, lose trade, close factories, have Customs controls, queue up with the lorries on the M20, create an Irish border  etc etc etc
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 November 2018, 08:17:13 pm
Quote
Free movement across europe? Weve always had it before we joined the EU. I took several continental holidays in the late 60s, just had to show a passport, thats all.

You had no right to live, work or retire there.  That’s what we have now.
Neither did you have free health care, included roaming charges, bike insurance cover etc etc
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 12 November 2018, 08:35:17 pm
Tbh, with all we're told we get from EU membership, and them apparently not getting a thing from us, it's a wonder they didn't actually kick us out  :rollin


So they certainly won't let us back in  :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 12 November 2018, 08:42:03 pm

Quite apart from my reasons for voting to leave, I think the EU is falling apart anyhoo, whatever mess we have to sort out now it will be worse for those in it when it collapses.  :)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 12 November 2018, 08:45:19 pm
But surely Germoney will pick up the tab for the gap we leave?


Oh no, I forgot...on balance they give us more than we give them. Why on earth would they have us back? This country has nothing to offer the world.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 November 2018, 10:33:49 pm
Quote
So they certainly won't let us back in  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url])

For them to let us back in, we would have to first leave.

   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 12 November 2018, 10:53:52 pm
4 months to go. If May's deal is voted against in Parliament, the clock is still ticking.


So why do you think the EU would want us to stay in? What's in it for them?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 12 November 2018, 11:17:18 pm
I had to do a double take to make sure, but he genuinely did wear a grey hoodie anorak with the hood hanging out and a red tie for the service of remembrance at The Cenotaph yesterday.

Ah, yes.

Meanwhile, behind him was Tony Blair who should have been investigated at The Hague for war crimes (let alone him having the gall to wear a poppy after sending our troops into Iraq) and beside him was Theresa May who sells British weapons to the Saudis who then use them to bomb buses full of Yemeni children...

But, no, it's Corbyn who is the problem.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 November 2018, 11:55:45 pm
But if Jeremy Corbyn is a republican why would he join in with singing the national anthem?.

It's a perectly valid view to hold. Not everyone supports the monarchy.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 November 2018, 12:01:24 am
Simply because it's the National Anthem. The words are immaterial.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 08:01:53 am

Simply because it's the National Anthem. The words are immaterial.


I'd never thought of the words as being immaterial. When I sing God Save The Queen I actually mean it.


Corbyn didn't used to sing it though did he?. Even up until early on in his leadership he wasn't singing it at public events I don't think.


I wonder what changed since then :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 November 2018, 09:16:58 am
Well as a very large proportion of the population don't believe in God, that's going to be difficult. Do you think the Germans literary meant 'Deutschland uber alles' when they sang it? O hang on a minute....  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 09:31:37 am

I believe in god and just assumed all the other people singing it did too.


I still can't find an explanation as to why Jeremy Corbin sings The National Anthem now, but didn't previously :rolleyes


Anyone?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 November 2018, 12:08:13 pm
Personally, I couldn't care less. Anyway, what's that got to do with Brexit?  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 01:46:56 pm

Personally, I couldn't care less.


No I expect you don't  :rolleyes lol. I do though. I'll just have to do my own research ;) .


In his first post accompanying the thread title, the OP says it's for other politics as well.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 November 2018, 02:48:43 pm
I still don't care.....


Theresa doesn't know the right moves to 'Dancing Queen', but I don't care about that either  :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 05:10:35 pm
Theresa doesn't know the right moves to 'Dancing Queen'

I'm in agreement with you there. 100%. It's cringe inducing isn't it :o . Do they deliberately make an arse of it, sort of ironic like, or are they really actually trying?. I think the sad truth is that it's most likely the latter :'(

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 November 2018, 05:32:15 pm
 
Quote
But if Jeremy Corbyn is a republican why would he join in with singing the national anthem?.

Perhaps you haven’t noticed but Mr Corbyn is the leader of the opposition and therefore your next Prime Minister in waiting.


Quote
When I sing God Save The Queen I actually mean it.


For focs sake. :eek :eek :eek   



Never sung it, never will sing it.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 05:43:32 pm


Quote
When I sing God Save The Queen I actually mean it.


For focs sake. :eek :eek :eek   
:lol
....and I'm not refering to The Sex Pistols version either ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 13 November 2018, 07:13:22 pm
Whats all the fuss about I heard tonight on the telly that Theresa has it sorted   :rollin :rollin :rollin Is there a widow left open I thought I felt a draft?


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 07:17:41 pm
I still can't find an explanation as to why Jeremy Corbin sings The National Anthem now, but didn't previously :rolleyes

I'll just have to do my own research ;) .

The consensus of opinion is that the reason he never used to sing it was because he's a commited republican and that the explanation as to why he does sing it now is because he came under pressure from his own MP's and Cabinet collegues to do so. Particularly after the 75th anniversary of The Battle Of Britain service.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 November 2018, 08:29:35 pm
 
Quote
The consensus of opinion is that the reason he never used to sing it was because he's a commited republican and that the explanation as to why he does sing it now is because he came under pressure from his own MP's and Cabinet collegues to do so. Particularly after the 75th anniversary of The Battle Of Britain service.




 
I don’t know whether he sang that abominable awful anthem in the past or not, but as I have already pointed out, he is the leader of the opposition, that means he may become the Prime Minister one day.  He has to follow protocol.  Simple.


 
Meanwhile May has stuck a deal with Juncker.  No hard boder in Ireland as we will remain in the customs union.  Now we have to see if the government can agree on it and put it to the parliament.  This is where the real fun starts.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 November 2018, 08:45:02 pm
So...... if we agree terms with the EU that we stay in the Customs Union and most of the Single Market without a backstop (ie without an end date)........... then we might as well........... stay in the EU :)


At least I think that's what Arron Banks said.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 09:06:04 pm
Quote
The consensus of opinion is that the reason he never used to sing it was because he's a commited republican and that the explanation as to why he does sing it now is because he came under pressure from his own MP's and Cabinet collegues to do so. Particularly after the 75th anniversary of The Battle Of Britain service.




 
I don’t know whether he sang that abominable awful anthem in the past or not, but as I have already pointed out, he is the leader of the opposition, that means he may become the Prime Minister one day.  He has to follow protocol.  Simple.
HAS to?. Surely he has a choice?. The impression I get is that he was basically presurised into singing it.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 November 2018, 09:32:03 pm
Protocol - the official procedure or system of rules governing affairs of state or diplomatic occasions.

At offical functions when Mr Corbyn becomes Prime Minister he will be representing the country - not himself.

For example, whilst in the past he has always worn a white poppy on rememberance day, protocol dictates he must now wear a British Legion red poppy.  Once he retires as Prime Minister or as Leader of the Opposition I think you will find he will once again wear a white poppy, unless, that is, performing offical state functions as a former Prime Minister.
The country has to come before the individual when holding such high office.  Like I say simple.





Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 13 November 2018, 10:05:36 pm
Sorry VNA, I think he already promised himself to Diane Abbott  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 10:14:02 pm

Yes simple if you already know that that's the one of the rules of holding such a high office. I didn't, as indicated by my asking the question several times in previous posts.


When I was googling it earlier none of the results said that he had to conform, Ie sing The National Anthem.


Ta you've answered my question :thumbup

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 November 2018, 10:24:33 pm
I still don't care. At the end of the day, whether he sings it or not, what dances Theresa can or cannot do, is unimportant. It's just froth, only worthy of front page news for the tabloids.


In other news May has pulled off a fantastic result.
She's turned the country from a 2 way split - Leavers vs Remainers.......
Into a 3 way split - Hard Brexit vs Soft Brexit vs No Brexit


Unbelievable!  :'(

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 10:51:40 pm

I'm reluctant to say this and it's not with any great enthusiasm at all, but I'm prepared to say I've probably been won over by the arguments.


On the balance of things, as they stand at the moment, I think it would be best to stay in :eek


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 November 2018, 11:07:35 pm
I've just fainted.....  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 November 2018, 11:11:49 pm
Quote
On the balance of things, as they stand at the moment, I think it would be best to stay in ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url])



 :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 November 2018, 11:13:42 pm
Have you ever watched '12 Angry Men'?


We just need to get Hedgetrimmer and Ogri48 turned, and we're there  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 11:26:33 pm

 :lol
That's thrown you hasn't it ;) lol


Well that just shows you the power of persuasion.


And I think it's a good thing that people aren't so intransigent that they aren't prepared to be open to seeing the other side and be prepared to say so.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 November 2018, 11:34:55 pm
OK, in return I agree Corbyn is a communist spy and eats babies  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 November 2018, 11:48:29 pm
Where would we be if nobody ever had a change of mind.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 November 2018, 11:53:34 pm
Have you ever watched '12 Angry Men'?
Only the Tony Hancock version, which is a comedy classic by the way, but not the film. I get your gist though.

Do bear in mind I'm a very reluctant convert, not a fully paid up bells and whistles member of the Remainer gang  ;) :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 November 2018, 08:24:07 am

I can see this latest deal getting rejected.


I just don't think it's worth all the hassle any more.
Easier to just stay in and put up with it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 November 2018, 09:46:03 am
'Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you........ Did she die in vain'  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 November 2018, 10:23:17 am

'Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you........ Did she die in vain'  :D


 :lol It's a classic isn't it. They repeat the radio shows on 4 extra on Monday's at 7pm.


It was the life insurance policy one the other night where he buys the policy from Sid and it's a vet doing the medical (played by Kenneth Williams) :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 November 2018, 10:41:23 am
Saw '12 Angry Men' in Edinburgh with Arthur Smith as Sid James. Also saw BBC recordings of 'The Lost Hancocks' in London. All classics.


My other favourite lines Radio Ham - 'I've got friends all over the world. None in this country, but all over the world'


And of course the immortal 'A pint, that's very nearly an armful. I'm not walking around with an empty arm for anyone'


The Lad Himself  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 November 2018, 11:53:55 am

I was mightily impressed by The Lost Hancock's.


I first got into his shows as a kid long after his death.


One of my all time favourite moments is actually an error. It's the bit in The Two Murderers where Sid gets tongue tied and fluffs his lines trying to tell Hancock about 'El Fish & Chippo'.
The pair of them descend into genuine laughter over it. Priceless stuff.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 November 2018, 12:36:15 pm

So...... if we agree terms with the EU that we stay in the Customs Union and most of the Single Market without a backstop (ie without an end date)........... then we might as well........... stay in the EU :)


At least I think that's what Arron Banks said.


They've just been talking about this on the Jeremy Vine show Radio 2.


They reckon this deal is the final one, there will be no other. They say The EU know we won't ever go for a 'No Deal' Brexit.


So yes that's it. Stay In I say.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 14 November 2018, 04:06:24 pm


We just need to get Hedgetrimmer and Ogri48 turned, and we're there  ;)


Sigh.

No, I'm afraid i'm not going to turn now. Rightly or wrongly, I have my principles. Maybe they're dated but I'm too old and focced to change now.
In all honesty, in or out of the EU, I'm focced  :lol
I am a dinosaur, and the first to admit it. I was born and brought up on the history and values of this country, and served 8 years in our armed forces. I'm a patriot at heart. Again, all that for better or worse.
This whole debate is about business, corporations, money. It doesn't matter where these are located at the end of the day - they have their own interests at heart, shareholders and company executives. If us minions benefit from that in any way, it's purely incidental. They will continue to treat the rest with the barest consideration they can get away with. If they can replace people with machines, AI, robots, because that's more efficient, they will have not one second thought about it.

At most, if there were another referendum including the option to remain in the EU, I might withhold my vote. Maybe it is time that the younger generations decided what they want, and us old focs stood aside. It really won't make any difference to me. Being in the EU won't improve my lot any.

Personally, I'd like to have seen a better EU than is currently being pushed forwards, with us at the heart of it. But Merkel and Macron have shown that we would never get that. Even fully inside the EU, the UK was always considered as an outsider. We were told we never understood them. If that was the case, some us certainly don't now, given what has passed between us since the referendum.

But as I said, none of it really matters to me, because none of it is relevant to me anymore.
So if you can get it back, have your EU membership, and enjoy. I don't want it still, not in the way that it was, and appeared to be going.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 November 2018, 05:34:39 pm
 Well looks like it’s going to turn into the nightmarish farce many of us thought it would.
It’s possible the thought, or rather the reality of a No Deal Brexit might pull enough BREXIT Tories back in to get May’s plan though the cabinet (maybe we’ll get a better idea of that deal tomorrow).  Then….
No point blabbing on much more, let’s see what happens.
And if it fails – Labour wants a general election so that they can sort it out – even though they don’t have a plan either. 
A second referendum – in the hope folks vote to stay in as we are would solve everything, but plunge the country into an even deeper crises if folks voted for BREXIT again.
In the meantime, the contingency plans need to be acted on.  The UK needs to start getting it’s stock piles of food, medicines  etc etc in place. 
It’s anybody’s guess now.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 November 2018, 06:41:39 pm
I must say I agree with all 3 of you. Yes, irrespective of the EU,  big business rules. They make or influence all the decisions. Pay their taxes wherever they like. We are merely components, either as producers or consumers.


I also agree that whatever is being proposed for transition, will also become the long-term. BINO - Brexit In Name Only. Both In but Out with a few tweaks and concessions, to make it look good.


I also have no idea what will happen next. May needs to get her proposals through several hurdles - Cabinet, Party, Parliament, the EU itself. Plenty to go wrong. Parliament is going to be the most difficult.


If she doesn't get it all the way through, anybodies guess. Anyway I've stocked up on tins.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 14 November 2018, 06:46:59 pm

fraid ill never change either chaps. im also unashamedly patriotic, believe in god and country etc. I am aware that people like Nick and me are moving to the minority as the older generations die out, but thats ok.
Do you know, I can honestly say, if Corbyn, Abbot and Mcdonnell got in I would believe that our country would be slaughtered for ever. But I can also honestly say if he did I would respect the will of the electorate, and accept it.
Thats all those of us who won the referendum asked really. That the democratic decision be not only respected, but that everybody pulled together to make it work.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 November 2018, 07:09:13 pm
 
Quote
That the democratic decision be not only respected, but that everybody pulled together to make it work.

But that is precisely where the problem lies.


Firstly it is a referendum that should have never happened.  It happened because the Tories offered it as a means to unite their party and kill UKIP – and it worked.  They won the general election.
In terms of making it work,


Putting aside the disastrous campaign (LEAVE – absolute lies REMAIN – absolute fear) – nobody actually knew what BREXIT was – or rather what shape it would take.  That came after the vote – when asked May told us it would be – a red white and blue BREXIT (ie she didn’t have a clue).


She then focced up by going to the electorate – she did so in order to avoid the very situation that she is in now.  But that didn’t work – and as a result she is in the hands of the DUP and parliament as a whole.  And anyway the Tories might be in government – by the skin of their teeth – but they are split and out of control.


But ultimately what you are asking the majority of MP’s in parliament to do OGRI is to vote to implement something that they wholeheartedly and absolutely believe is not in the best interests of their constituents or the country as a whole. 



And then there is Ireland.


David Cameron offered you this referendum cos he knew the country would reject BREXIT.  He was so confident he never even bothered to consider the consequences, should he turn out to be wrong.  Doh!  Doh doh doh doh!


I believe these may well be the first few days of a country in a full-blown crisis.  I hope not, but it’s looking like it.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 November 2018, 07:10:33 pm
Quote
I also have no idea what will happen next.
That's the only thing we can all be sure of.  Nobody has a clue.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 14 November 2018, 07:16:41 pm
Quote
I also have no idea what will happen next.
That's the only thing we can all be sure of.  Nobody has a clue.


 :eek  I think that's the first time I have actually heard Remainers admit this! What's up lads, batteries in your crystal balls run out?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 November 2018, 07:29:06 pm
 
Quote
:eek  I think that's the first time I have actually heard Remainers admit this! What's up lads, batteries in your crystal balls run out?  :lol


 
But this is exactly what I predicted.  Or rather I predicted that, further down the line, BREXIT will not happen and we will continue as fully paid up members – though obviously that’s what I want – it’s still a strong possibility.  I don’t think BREXIT is possible – of cours, I may be about to find out I am wrong.
Quote
im also unashamedly patriotic, believe in god and country etc.
I don’t see what any of that has to do with it OGRI.  Do God fearing people want their country to be poorer? Do patriots want their patriotic elected representatives to vote against their own conscience and belief, to vote with Boris and Jacob, and against the best interest of their constituents?

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 November 2018, 07:29:51 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut74Tkz4Eho (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ut74Tkz4Eho)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 November 2018, 07:48:20 pm
To be fair to May (and I find that very difficult) she was up shit street whatever option /proposal /result she came up with.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 14 November 2018, 07:51:35 pm


Quote
That the democratic decision be not only respected, but that everybody pulled together to make it work.

But that is precisely where the problem lies.


Firstly it is a referendum that should have never happened.  It happened because the Tories offered it as a means to unite their party and kill UKIP – and it worked.  They won the general election.
In terms of making it work,


Putting aside the disastrous campaign (LEAVE – absolute lies REMAIN – absolute fear) – nobody actually knew what BREXIT was – or rather what shape it would take.  That came after the vote – when asked May told us it would be – a red white and blue BREXIT (ie she didn’t have a clue).


She then focced up by going to the electorate – she did so in order to avoid the very situation that she is in now.  But that didn’t work – and as a result she is in the hands of the DUP and parliament as a whole.  And anyway the Tories might be in government – by the skin of their teeth – but they are split and out of control.


But ultimately what you are asking the majority of MP’s in parliament to do OGRI is to vote to implement something that they wholeheartedly and absolutely believe is not in the best interests of their constituents or the country as a whole. 



And then there is Ireland.


David Cameron offered you this referendum cos he knew the country would reject BREXIT.  He was so confident he never even bothered to consider the consequences, should he turn out to be wrong.  Doh!  Doh doh doh doh!


I believe these may well be the first few days of a country in a full-blown crisis.  I hope not, but it’s looking like it.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 14 November 2018, 07:55:14 pm
Quote
That the democratic decision be not only respected, but that everybody pulled together to make it work.

But that is precisely where the problem lies.


Firstly it is a referendum that should have never happened.  It happened because the Tories offered it as a means to unite their party and kill UKIP – and it worked.  They won the general election.
In terms of making it work,


Putting aside the disastrous campaign (LEAVE – absolute lies REMAIN – absolute fear) – nobody actually knew what BREXIT was – or rather what shape it would take.  That came after the vote – when asked May told us it would be – a red white and blue BREXIT (ie she didn’t have a clue).


She then focced up by going to the electorate – she did so in order to avoid the very situation that she is in now.  But that didn’t work – and as a result she is in the hands of the DUP and parliament as a whole.  And anyway the Tories might be in government – by the skin of their teeth – but they are split and out of control.


But ultimately what you are asking the majority of MP’s in parliament to do OGRI is to vote to implement something that they wholeheartedly and absolutely believe is not in the best interests of their constituents or the country as a whole. 



And then there is Ireland.


David Cameron offered you this referendum cos he knew the country would reject BREXIT.  He was so confident he never even bothered to consider the consequences, should he turn out to be wrong.  Doh!  Doh doh doh doh!


I believe these may well be the first few days of a country in a full-blown crisis.  I hope not, but it’s looking like it.
 

but it did happen mate.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 November 2018, 08:39:07 pm
Quote
To be fair to May (and I find that very difficult) she was up shit street whatever option /proposal /result she came up with.
Agree. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 14 November 2018, 10:05:28 pm
truth is fellers, we all got focced. Good job we got our bikes huh ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 November 2018, 10:08:38 am

I've just fainted.....  :eek


Just to clarify. I've not experienced a Road To Damascus Epiphany or such like.


It's a pragmatic descion. Like I said before, it's a very reluctant one with no great enthusiasm that's based on how things stand at the moment.


They're saying this deal is, and will be, the only one offered. In that case we're better off staying in. At least then we get to keep the good bits such as the EHIC cards etc...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 November 2018, 10:16:02 am
The whole thing is about pragmatism. Nothing is perfect, and the EU certainly isn't. But to keep the good bits you need to accept the bad bits. Then change it from within.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 15 November 2018, 12:04:46 pm
If the SNP is smart, they will be manoeuvring behind the scenes to back Brexit (they cannot be seen to be doing this). That way, they'll be able to call for another independence referendum, which will go massively in their favour. An independent Scotland will be able to waltz back into the arms of the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 November 2018, 12:48:11 pm

The whole thing is about pragmatism.


You'd expect it to be so I suppose. The EU is more akin to a cult or a religion to those protesters that were trying to drown out Huw Edwards on The Six O'clock News last night though. I wanted to hear what he'd got to say about the developments that were just breaking as he spoke, but you could barely catch a word he was saying :rolleyes .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 15 November 2018, 01:11:38 pm
Just been listening to prime ministers question time seems to me that no matter whether they are labour or conservative members house, it seems most think this is a bad deal and we are being sold down the river. For those of you in London can some one confirm the Union Jack is still flying over Parliament not a white flag.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 November 2018, 03:08:22 pm
Actually we're off to London this evening. Been told to avoid Parliament Square as Jacob Rees-Mogg has just exploded  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 15 November 2018, 03:31:34 pm
They all seem on a short fuse which ever side of the fence or party they sit, talk about lions led by donkeys god help us as that shower in parliament don't seem to have a clue.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 15 November 2018, 04:39:40 pm
Quote
That the democratic decision be not only respected, but that everybody pulled together to make it work.

But that is precisely where the problem lies.


Firstly it is a referendum that should have never happened.  It happened because the Tories offered it as a means to unite their party and kill UKIP – and it worked.  They won the general election.
In terms of making it work,


Putting aside the disastrous campaign (LEAVE – absolute lies REMAIN – absolute fear) – nobody actually knew what BREXIT was – or rather what shape it would take.  That came after the vote – when asked May told us it would be – a red white and blue BREXIT (ie she didn’t have a clue).


She then focced up by going to the electorate – she did so in order to avoid the very situation that she is in now.  But that didn’t work – and as a result she is in the hands of the DUP and parliament as a whole.  And anyway the Tories might be in government – by the skin of their teeth – but they are split and out of control.


But ultimately what you are asking the majority of MP’s in parliament to do OGRI is to vote to implement something that they wholeheartedly and absolutely believe is not in the best interests of their constituents or the country as a whole. 



And then there is Ireland.


David Cameron offered you this referendum cos he knew the country would reject BREXIT.  He was so confident he never even bothered to consider the consequences, should he turn out to be wrong.  Doh!  Doh doh doh doh!


I believe these may well be the first few days of a country in a full-blown crisis.  I hope not, but it’s looking like it.


Had everyone respected the decision, then things may have turned out differently. As it is, the splits into several factions destroyed any semblance of national unity and its this that has signalled to the EU that we are weak nation, ready to be shafted, our political leaders having no authority, the blairites that have been hiding at the bottom of the pond are ready to resurface and move Corbyn out, Rees Bogg ready to step up when the PM goes. Worst constitutional crisis in living memory. And all because you lost in a perfectly fair ballot, but couldnt accept the result.


Shame on you
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 November 2018, 05:49:44 pm
 
Quote
If the SNP is smart, they will be manoeuvring behind the scenes to back Brexit (they cannot be seen to be doing this).

Well no.  They don’t back BREXIT politically, and in fact 63% of Scots voted to REMAIN.  The single market is essential to Scotland’s economy, and particularly so as Scotland has significant and growing tourism industry which for many years now has relied on seasonal European labour.


Scotland can’t support the customs union deal as we need free movement. 



Quote
That way, they'll be able to call for another independence referendum, which will go massively in their favour.
I wouldn’t be so sure.  It might, it might not.  Certainly, many Scots are well peeved at this BREXIT mess that has been forced upon us by England.  But then there are many within the SNP who want BREXIT, and then there is the tribal aspect of Scottish politics – the Union Jack Waving God Save the Queen Unionists – who will never ever support independence.


I mean how many Tory governments that we didn’t vote for have we endured? 



The SNP would never be forgiven by anybody for gambling our whole economy in the hope of a good indy 2 result.
Quote
An independent Scotland will be able to waltz back into the arms of the EU.
The most important thing for Scotland is the here and now, we can’t afford to leave the Single Market. 


 
But what’s happening right now is though Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to REMAIN in the EU and Scotland desperately wants to at least remain in the single market, the DUP does not.  Northern Ireland will under this deal remain in the customs union but will also remain in much of the single market for goods.  So the DUP gets what it doesn’t want and the SNP doesn’t get what it wants.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 November 2018, 05:51:37 pm
All the European nations must think we are all absolutely mad. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 15 November 2018, 06:00:11 pm
All the European nations must think we are all absolutely mad. :lol


They will if we accept May's deal.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 November 2018, 06:21:19 pm
Quote
They will if we accept May's deal.
May is something of a survivor.  But how much longer?
Her government is in ruins, the deal is dead in the water and pariamentary defeat looms.
She sure puts a brave face on it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 15 November 2018, 06:25:38 pm

May is something of a survivor.  But how much longer?
Her government is in ruins, the deal is dead in the water and pariamentary defeat looms.
She sure puts a brave face on it.


What choice does she have? Can you see her coming up with a deal that everyone will be happy with? She must be feeling quite resigned to her fate.
I have come to the conclusion that the UK cannot do an acceptable deal with the EU. The only reason the EU stays in the negotiations must be that they are hoping to gain complete jurisdiction over all the UK's affairs. To me, that will always be unacceptable.


NO DEAL!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 15 November 2018, 06:47:58 pm
All the European nations must think we are all absolutely mad. :lol
Never truer words spoken  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 November 2018, 06:52:59 pm
Quote
I have come to the conclusion that the UK cannot do an acceptable deal with the EU. The only reason the EU stays in the negotiations must be that they are hoping to gain complete jurisdiction over all the UK's affairs. To me, that will always be unacceptable.

 Don’t be silly.  You still haven’t named what these EU laws are that have supposedly been imposed on us.


Did you know the single market accounts for 25% of global GDP.  And it’s right on our doorstep.  45% of our exports are to the EU.  50% of our imports are from the EU. 



So we are now going to pay the EU 35 billion pounds to make it more difficult for us to do the huge amount of business that we do with them.



I am however increasingly confident, though not 100% sure, that should there be a complete democratic meltdown over BREXIT, that parliament will pull together at the last minute to stop a No Deal BREXIT, but that ultimately will depend on a negotiation with the EU to suspend article 50.


But at the end of the day, don’t blame the EU.  Blame the Tories.  Blame David Cameron.  BREXIT was never a good idea, and as it turns out doesn’t appear to be possible.

 
Quote
Quote from: VNA on Today at 05:51:37 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg287131.html#msg287131[/url])<blockquote>All the European nations must think we are all absolutely mad. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])
</blockquote>Never truer words spoken  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Is this the UK's biggest ever politcal farce?
   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 15 November 2018, 07:07:02 pm

 
Quote
Quote from: VNA on Today at 05:51:37 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg287131.html#msg287131[/url])<blockquote>All the European nations must think we are all absolutely mad. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])
</blockquote>Never truer words spoken  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])





Sorry fellas, but the views of one chap who wants out of the UK and another who isn't in it in the first place don't carry much weight for me on this one  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 15 November 2018, 07:32:15 pm
I've kept out of this so far. 
Just to prove a point. 

And I was gonna continue to keep out of it, and anyway the title of the thread pisses me off.

But;


So.......What happened to make you sell your principles up the river....Did you become a politician ?  :D


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 November 2018, 07:39:10 pm
Quote
So.......What happened to make you sell your principles up the river....Did you become a politician ?  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url])

May I quote Tommy again.
Quote
A thread Just for VNA..... fuck off   ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Youse lot just love it. ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 November 2018, 08:10:57 pm
Quote
So.......What happened to make you sell your principles up the river....Did you become a politician ?  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url])

May I quote Tommy again.
Quote
A thread Just for VNA..... fuck off   ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Youse lot just love it. ;)


It got 'removed ' from the "What Get's My Goat" thread by popular demand....and turns out to be the most popular thread :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 November 2018, 08:23:31 pm
....wish I hadn't had so many sherbets Tuesday evening. Had a moment of alcohol induced benevolence in this thread. Missing joining in the Euro bickering so much :'(
Foc :wall Foc :wall Foc :wall :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 November 2018, 10:27:22 pm
I like this tweet.  Excellant interview that kinda sums things up;
https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/1063111958579306496
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 15 November 2018, 10:57:12 pm
Had everyone respected the decision, then things may have turned out differently.

"If the result of this is 48-52, this isn't over" - Nigel Farage.

Hmm...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 November 2018, 12:07:42 am
This just about sums it up
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 16 November 2018, 12:52:25 am
This just about sums it up

I'd laugh, but that's exactly what Cameron did: Got us into this situation, said he wouldn't resign, then focced up and walked away leaving others to try to sort out the mess he'd left us with... :(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 16 November 2018, 10:55:15 am

Cameron just joined a long list of those that resigned of those that did the Blair went to war in Iraq, Brown  pensions. Cameron dropped us in the sh*t and resigned. 
Strikes me what we need is a Prime minister with common sense and some bottle and actually listens to the people of this country, but going through the whole shower of every party that presently inhabit parliament none spring to mind.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 November 2018, 03:48:22 pm
Here's an item from a business column in yesterday's London Evening News, word for word :

'There's still no clarity on whether EU regulators will accept UK made medicines which haven't undergone tests on EU soil. So British firms will have to build testing labs on the continent to carry out replica tests to those done in Britain. AstraZeneca, one of our better prepared multinationals has already built a lab in Sweden to do this (pointless) duplicate work. But have all our other manufacturers? Considering such Brexit measures have cost AZ £40 million it's highly doubtful smaller firms will have done. Such situations are repeated across every industry. '


This isn't Project Fear.  It's not even as if the new jobs will be in the UK. They'll be Swedish.


Welcome to Project Reality.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 November 2018, 04:05:19 pm
It say's that there's no clarity on whether EU regulators willl accept them. So they might or they might not.
 It then says British firms will have to build testing labs on the continent. Surely they might or they might not?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 November 2018, 04:51:18 pm
But this is for transition, starting end of March 2019.....


What is certain, is that a No Deal result means they will.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 November 2018, 05:16:43 pm
Just been anounced that Amber Rudd is back in the cabinet replacing Esther McVey and the new brexit secretary is Stephen Barclay (no me neither :lol ).
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 16 November 2018, 05:20:37 pm
Here's an item from a business column in yesterday's London Evening News, word for word :

'There's still no clarity on whether EU regulators will accept UK made medicines which haven't undergone tests on EU soil. So British firms will have to build testing labs on the continent to carry out replica tests to those done in Britain. AstraZeneca, one of our better prepared multinationals has already built a lab in Sweden to do this (pointless) duplicate work. But have all our other manufacturers? Considering such Brexit measures have cost AZ £40 million it's highly doubtful smaller firms will have done. Such situations are repeated across every industry. '


This isn't Project Fear.  It's not even as if the new jobs will be in the UK. They'll be Swedish.


Welcome to Project Reality.....


Equally, EU medicines which have not undergone testing in the uk may or not be accepted here, so the european firms will have to build testing labs in the UK. Such situations are repeated across every industry  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 November 2018, 05:54:27 pm
 
Quote
So they might or they might not.

Exactly, that’s the whole point YamFazFan.  May has a deal, if accepted there will be relatively smooth transition.


If we crash out, then everything is up in the air.   
Don’t forget the EU is 25% of global GDP.  And it’s on out doorstep.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4PqRpdzNlA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4PqRpdzNlA)

Watch this – note at 15 seconds – “we can choose to leave with no deal, or we can risk no BREXIT at all, or we can choose to unite and choose the best deal that can be negotiated”


Continued full membership of the EU – the best deal of all – is still an option.


Also, Ms May is well aware of this – continued membership of the EU kills the Scottish Indy Ref 2 stone dead, and though the DUP want to leave, they’ll accept it as their electorate voted to remain and it guarantees the future of NI within the UK but with no Irish border.


They just have to plough through this, for a few weeks or whatever, until we all realise that BREXIT just is not really possible.  That is not possible without serious consequences for the whole UK.


The REMAIN majority in the Tory party must now move to kill the BRIXTEERS.


So says VNA.  But really anything can happen now. :\ :\
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 16 November 2018, 08:18:59 pm

Ah its like a plaster mate, just gotta yank the bugger off and let the wound heal.
you know VNA now means Very Nearly Assimilated, right? ;) ;) ;) :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 16 November 2018, 08:40:26 pm
one day we'll all look back on this and laugh. Hopefully.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 November 2018, 10:37:21 pm
Or cry.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 November 2018, 11:52:16 pm
Quote
Equally, EU medicines which have not undergone testing in the uk may or not be accepted here, so the european firms will have to build testing labs in the UK. Such situations are repeated across every industry  [/size]

Yes, but with a ratio of 27:1. It all makes perfect sense doesn't it :rolleyes


What is really getting my goat at the moment (to borrow a phrase from elsewhere) is that this is turning into a Tory internal fist fight again. Yes John Major's  'Bastards' are still there trying to wrestle control of the party. While the rest of the country is going up in flames, all they care about is who gets to be leader, which is where this all started
 :groan
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 November 2018, 12:04:55 am
Quote
one day we'll all look back on this and laugh. Hopefully.         Or cry


It's our children and grandchildren who'll be crying. We'll be dead and despised.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 17 November 2018, 06:52:08 am
Well it wont be us old ones apparently we are to old to understand what we are doing and just clog up the NHS and care services we've payed for the last 40/50 years
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: NorthWestern on 17 November 2018, 07:49:52 am
Brexit?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 November 2018, 10:28:31 am
Quote
one day we'll all look back on this and laugh. Hopefully.         Or cry


It's our children and grandchildren who'll be crying. We'll be dead and despised.
Hopefully we'll live long enought to recieve their thanks. I expect they'll be praising their forebears for having the wisdom and insight to see what a corrupt undemocratic racket the whole thing was.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 November 2018, 10:42:00 am
Thought while this farce continues, I'll just post pictures

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 17 November 2018, 10:53:00 am
Sometimes, reading this thread is like watching the history channel, with all its repeats from the whingeing, whining losers of Remain  :lol


The only important thing right now is what does this draft deal actually mean? All the discussion on telly is about the manoeuvring of a bunch of conniving, self-interested politician twats and their careers.


Give us in depth discussion in the media, then give us a vote: This deal or no deal. Remain is a historical artefact.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 November 2018, 10:59:42 am
Sometimes, reading this thread is like watching the history channel, with all its repeats from the whingeing, whining losers of Remain  :lol

I had a bit of a wobble the other day :o .......but I'm back where I was now :D . Normal service has been resumed ;) . I voted Leave so on reflection I feel it's only right and proper to see it through and honour that 8)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 17 November 2018, 11:04:39 am
Sometimes, reading this thread is like watching the history channel, with all its repeats from the whingeing, whining losers of Remain  :lol

I had a bit of a wobble the other day :o .......but I'm back where I was now :D . Normal service has been resumed ;) . I voted Leave so on reflection I feel it's only right and proper to see it through and honour that 8)


Are you sure?  :lol


You know that anti-UK chap who has no stake in our future one way or the other will be along to tell you you're mad soon?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 November 2018, 11:11:38 am
Sometimes, reading this thread is like watching the history channel, with all its repeats from the whingeing, whining losers of Remain  :lol

I had a bit of a wobble the other day :o .......but I'm back where I was now :D . Normal service has been resumed ;) . I voted Leave so on reflection I feel it's only right and proper to see it through and honour that 8)


Are you sure?  :lol


I'm sure I voted Leave. I was the first one in the queue that morning. I'd camped out all night with my sleeping bag and my flask of hot tea :b . I was first and mtread and VNA were second and third respectively. Fortunately the voting percentages evened up a bit during the day :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 17 November 2018, 12:03:48 pm
This deal or no deal.

Do you want to jump off the cliff yourself or be pushed?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 17 November 2018, 12:13:39 pm
I voted no in common market vote in the 1970's and my opinion has not change on that. Voted NO, NINE ,NON  to staying in the EU not heard any thing yet to make me change my mind from politician, experts or a certain member north of the border most of it is tainted by bullsh*t or bias one way or the other. Would be good if some experts could spell it out with no bullsh*t or bais. The whole of Brexit has proved the old saying of when do you know when a politician speaking with forked tongues, answer when their mouths are moving. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 17 November 2018, 12:20:17 pm


Do you want to jump off the cliff yourself or be pushed?


Look, I've found another bit. Let me brush some of the mud off. Yes, it's a classic illustration of how some people thought back then.


 :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 November 2018, 01:10:30 pm
Sometimes, reading this thread is like watching the history channel, with all its repeats from the whingeing, whining losers of Remain  :lol

I had a bit of a wobble the other day :o .......but I'm back where I was now :D . Normal service has been resumed ;) . I voted Leave so on reflection I feel it's only right and proper to see it through and honour that 8)


Are you sure?  :lol


I was inebriated Tuesday evening too :o
As soon as I woke up on Wednesday I thought Foc how am I gonna wriggle out of this one and get back in the Leave camp :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 November 2018, 01:11:12 pm
Quote
I had a bit of a wobble the other day [/size] .......but I'm back where I was now  . Normal service has been resumed  . I voted Leave so on reflection I feel it's only right and proper to see it through and honour that



No, you went for Remain last week, and nobody, but nobody is allowed to change their mind. Ever apparently.


Anyway, I've got you all your Xmas present  :)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 17 November 2018, 01:46:37 pm

I was inebriated Tuesday evening too :o
As soon as I woke up on Wednesday I thought Foc how am I gonna wriggle out of this one and get back in the Leave camp :lol


You'd have to be inebriated to stay in that EU malarkey. Look, they are:


https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1063425437437755393


 :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 17 November 2018, 01:47:45 pm



 nobody is allowed to change their mind. Ever apparently.



Self included? Doh!  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 November 2018, 02:45:28 pm



Anyway, I've got you all your Xmas present  :)



I bet that's not Jean-Claude Juncker's personal mug ;) :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 November 2018, 02:51:53 pm
In the absence of any intelligent conversation on here about the technical details of the government's current proposals for the EU transition period.......... I've decided just to take the piss :lol



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 November 2018, 03:06:06 pm
I've decided just to take the piss :lol

That's the bit I missed the most during my brief foray into 'Remaining' ;) :lol
To be serious for a moment though, as I've spent time on both sides of the argument both for and against I'm able to give a more balanced and reasoned opinion. Therefore my final conclusion on the matter carries more weight than most ;) .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 November 2018, 03:32:52 pm
Don't tell me you know what's in the box!

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 November 2018, 04:04:32 pm

Don't tell me you know what's in the box!


Some of the millions and millions they've had out of us over the years for next to nothing in return I hope ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 November 2018, 05:03:18 pm
I think this is all the money you'll be getting :)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 November 2018, 06:22:27 pm
 :lol If they're hanging on to their last 50p how's he paid for that copy of The Sun?. I hope he's taking that shopping trolley back too ;) . Oh don't tell me, there's no need to because there will be nothing left in the shops to buy after Brexit will there :z .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 November 2018, 06:46:20 pm
You think they'll be shops!  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 November 2018, 07:21:39 pm
You think they'll be shops!  :eek
:lol
Therefore my final conclusion on the matter carries more weight than most ;) .
And it is........Leave with no deal :D
Pub tonight so I hadn't better post again this evening. Last time I did that I converted to Remain :'( . The liquor must bring out the European in me :rolleyes . Maybe that's why Junckers is so fanatical about it :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 November 2018, 07:26:31 pm
OK have a good one. You never know, you might bump into a mate down the pub :D



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 November 2018, 08:04:21 pm
I'm a long standing union member who believes in re-nationalising the essential public services/industries, which by the way should never have been privatised in the first place, and that the NHS is safer in the hands of The Labour Party.
Hardly the hallmarks of your typical Tory :rolleyes
Right time for a pint :b .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 November 2018, 08:22:32 pm
Then I'm the same as you..... apart from Jeremy's last bit. I'm with Jeremy on that bit  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 November 2018, 08:22:50 pm
 Look on the bright side, everybody is united on May’s deal.
Those who voted LEAVE hate it as it keeps us tied to a customs union and following EU rules.
Those who voted REMAIN hate it, cos we are just paying 35 billion for a very cheap and nasty version of what we already have.
So yeah LEAVE and REMAINERS are united on the deal. :D
Keep posting the pictures mtread. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 November 2018, 08:24:46 pm
Quote
I'm a long standing union member who believes in re-nationalising the essential public services/industries, which by the way should never have been privatised in the first place,
Tell me about it :\
BREXIT is just about finishing the work that Thatcher started.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 November 2018, 08:39:43 pm
VNA we could play this game with the responses. See who can fill a card first :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 November 2018, 10:51:48 am
That's handy. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 10:55:33 am
Quote
I've decided just to take the piss 


That's the bit I missed the most during my brief foray into 'Remaining'   



You should have stuck with Remain, we've got all the best jokes  :)



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 11:04:55 am
What I find amazing is that the Tories (aka the government) has now split into 4 factions :


Remainers /People's Voters - Anna Soubry & Co
May's Dealers - May, Hammond etc (some of the cabinet)
Let's amend May's Dealers - Leadsom, Gove etc (some more of the current cabinet)
No Dealers - Moggites


and that doesn't even include the supporting DUP. Who just want to ensure the document excludes any mention of dinosaurs.


You honestly couldn't make it up. Meanwhile here's a reminder of the current map of Europe....

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 11:11:54 am
Quote
I've decided just to take the piss 


That's the bit I missed the most during my brief foray into 'Remaining'   
You should have stuck with Remain, we've got all the best jokes  :)

I thank god I wore my corset for I fear my sides would have split and I only didn't laugh out loud in case my head fell off :groan

Speaking of jokes, I was so tempted to post.........'REMAIN!' :woot as a wind-up around about midnight last night :lol . Thought better of it in the end though.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 11:14:09 am
Don't know what happened there. It's put my post inside your quote :rolleyes .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 November 2018, 11:27:28 am
 
Quote
What I find amazing is that the Tories (aka the government) has now split into 4 factions :
 
 
 Remainers /People's Voters - Anna Soubry & Co
 May's Dealers - May, Hammond etc (some of the cabinet)
 Let's amend May's Dealers - Leadsom, Gove etc (some more of the current cabinet)
 No Dealers - Moggites
 
 
 and that doesn't even include the supporting DUP. Who just want to ensure the document excludes any mention of dinosaurs.
 
 
 You honestly couldn't make it up. Meanwhile here's a reminder of the current map of Europe....

I know I know.  It's unbeliveable.   But it’s even foccing worse than that. :'(


The DUP are the best, there position seems to be - we want same shite as everybody else, we do not under any circumstances want a better deal than the rest of the UK!


Then there is Labour – we won’t accept any deal unless it meets our 6 point test – what the foc! :eek   What the foc is the general public supposed to make of that.  They want a general election that they can’t possible get presumably so they can put forward their 6 point test or we don’t know what the fuck to do manifesto.


Corbyn was elected twice over by the membership, isn’t it about time he gave consideration to the wishes of his membership. 
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 November 2018, 11:30:12 am
Quote
Don't know what happened there.
That's what David Cameron said on the 24th of June 2016 YamFazFan
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 11:43:25 am
Quote
Don't know what happened there.

That's what David Cameron said on the 24th of June 2016 YamFazFan


That's what Dominic Raab said when he read the document he'd just drafted  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 12:43:41 pm
Quote
Then there is Labour – we won’t accept any deal unless it meets our 6 point test – what the foc!    What the foc is the general public supposed to make of that.  They want a general election that they can’t possible get presumably so they can put forward their 6 point test or we don’t know what the fuck to do manifesto.



``Never interrupt your enemy when he (she) is making a mistake ''


Napoleon Bonaparte


* mind you, he eventually lost  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 12:59:39 pm
You honestly couldn't make it up.

....and on the subject of quotations, isn't that one of Richard Littlejohn's that he often uses in his excellent Daily Mail column?. Always an unmissable read. Well we get it free with the shopping from Waitrose anyway :lol .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6395847/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-stuck-middle-EU.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6395847/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-stuck-middle-EU.html)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 01:09:35 pm
If you try a bit harder, Waitrose will give you a proper free newspaper  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 01:16:44 pm
Not sure what you mean by a 'proper free newspaper', but we get The Guardian for wrapping the spud peelings in. You can chuck the whole lot straight on the compost heap then :lol .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 November 2018, 01:23:25 pm
Quote
Richard Littlejohn            excellent                              Daily Mail
Sorry?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 01:29:01 pm
Quote
Not sure what you mean by a 'proper free newspaper', but we get The Guardian for wrapping the spud peelings in. You can chuck the whole lot straight on the compost heap then .



But the Guardian is much more expensive. Have you thought of swapping them around?


https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ (https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/)


Having said that, means you can save the Mail for toilet duties  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 02:21:24 pm
That reminds me of Steptoe and Son. They used newspaper in 'The Khazi' didn't they :lol . Another Galton and Simpson classic.

I see Ray died just the other week didn't he. That's the last person associated with Hancock's Half Hour passed away I reckon. The end of an era.




Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 02:38:59 pm
I think they always used newspaper. The outside toilet featured quite a lot. Those were the days  :)


Yes both gone now. What was very sad was Hancock thinking he could go it alone. Didn't recognise the skill of the scriptwriters. The combination of script and delivery.


Saw a very emotional play some years ago 'Hancocks Last Half Hour', set in his hotel bedroom just before he takes his life.


Genius is often flawed.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 02:56:56 pm
Was that the play by Heathcote Williams?. Just looked up a review of it from The Fringe festival.
I remember watching an interview with Galton and Simpson and they said that Hancock had a saying 'We can do better' but apparently he didn't expand on that much. I also read that he was increasingly dissatisfied with his Half Hour character's 'loser' reputation.
Maybe he was worried about getting typecast. That certainly happened to Harry H Corbett didn't it.

I always thought that his peak was in the shows he did with Sid James. They had a chemistry and it's said that they genuinely liked each other in real life. I think he lost a great deal without Sid.
What a sad end on the other side of the world when he died.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 04:03:14 pm
Yes Heathcote Williams, performed by Pip Utton. Seen Pip in lots of one man stuff - Churchill, Hitler and even Thatcher. He is superb.


It was Hancock who of course ditched Sid James. He thought they were becoming a 'double act'. Of course it didn't harm Sid's career much.


Harry H Corbett was of course a classically trained actor, and always thought Steptoe & Son was a bit beneath him. Not sure how he squared that with 'Carry On Screaming'! Wilfred Bramble was a terrible alcoholic.


How these gems ever got made, I'm not sure!


We've had some brilliant writers, Clement and La Frenais, Croft and Perry, John Sullivan etc, but I think Galton and Simpson come out tops.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 04:07:09 pm
In a minute someone is going to come on and tell us to foc off and start a new thread - 'Comedy Greats'  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 04:10:49 pm




Former Australia PM Tony Abbott:


"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.

Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get. The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence. But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for.

It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy? A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.

Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are. Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers. Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.

Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.

Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere). UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids.

And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum. As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it. Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015"


Hear, hear!


Don't believe in the UK? The EU is waiting with open arms. Got your passport? Then what's stopping you?  ;) 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 04:30:09 pm
That's why he's the former Australian PM.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 04:56:43 pm




Former Australia PM Tony Abbott:


"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.

Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get. The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence. But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for.

It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy? A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.

Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are. Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers. Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.

Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.

Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere). UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids.

And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum. As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it. Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015"



Stone me!, that's a good letter :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 November 2018, 04:57:55 pm
 
Quote
a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender.


Sounds a bit like - if you don't give us what we want we'll jump off a cliff.



Anyway I think she's already tried pointing a gun at her own heid.  Didn't work. :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 05:24:29 pm

Quote
a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender.


Sounds a bit like - if you don't give us what we want we'll jump off a cliff.



Anyway I think she's already tried pointing a gun at her own heid.  Didn't work. :lol
 

There's that chap who wants nothing to do with the UK again.


That's why he's the former Australian PM.....


mtread, what qualifications and experience do you have that give you more knowledge than him?  ;)  You're a former...what, exactly? :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 18 November 2018, 05:37:35 pm
Perhaps we could ask the European court to help sort this mess out......when they've finished imposing this sort of shit on us......who the fuck do they think they are telling us who we have to house. It's a fucking joke.
Walk away from the lot of them, show a bit of backbone, get your head down and show the world what Great Britain can achieve.
The EU is nothing short of an unelected dictatorship that are acting like the bully boys in a private school.
They know full well us leaving would seriously wound them.
If only we had a leader who kept this in mind when dealing with the fucktards.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155806173051179&id=647266178 (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10155806173051179&id=647266178)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 November 2018, 05:58:00 pm
 
Quote
They know full well us leaving would seriously wound them.
Sorry – so May should – pull out a loaded gun, point it at her own heid, and shout at Barnier “This is going to seriously wound you!” then pull the trigger!


I see. :eek
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 06:06:07 pm
Quote
They know full well us leaving would seriously wound them.
Sorry – so May should – pull out a loaded gun, point it at her own heid, and shout at Barnier “This is going to seriously wound you!” then pull the trigger!


I see. :eek


And we should listen to you because...?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 November 2018, 06:13:04 pm
Quote
They know full well us leaving would seriously wound them.
Sorry – so May should – pull out a loaded gun, point it at her own heid, and shout at Barnier “This is going to seriously wound you!” then pull the trigger!


I see. :eek
 
Yes it would seriously wound Barnier because her head would be is up his arse just like it has been for 2 years 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 06:14:14 pm
Just heard on the news that Macron is talking about full European sovereignty. So no super state eh? Ok... :rolleyes


Not to mention his previous statement about wanting an EU army to defend against...the U.S.A.?!  :eek
Yes, I can see which way this EU project is going.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 November 2018, 06:22:54 pm
May is going back to Brussels in the week to try and get a better deal, and they will just chuck her back in the channel like they did with Cammoron.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 06:39:04 pm
Perhaps we could ask the European court to help sort this mess out......when they've finished imposing this sort of shit on us......who the fuck do they think they are telling us who we have to house. It's a fucking joke.
Walk away from the lot of them, show a bit of backbone, get your head down and show the world what Great Britain can achieve.
The EU is nothing short of an unelected dictatorship that are acting like the bully boys in a private school.
They know full well us leaving would seriously wound them.
If only we had a leader who kept this in mind when dealing with the fucktards.


Absolutely spot-on dazza  :thumbup


I was waiting to find out more about what this deal would actually mean, but it's now obvious; Germany and France are looking for full European domination, including over the UK. Not militarily yet, perhaps, although some of Macron's rhetoric makes you wonder.
Now, I don't care what the draft deal says, it is time we just walked away from that snake pit.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 November 2018, 06:40:44 pm
 Looks this is roughly what is going to happen.


Our representatives will have to decide whether or not they are going to vote for May’s deal.


It does not look, at the moment, as if they will.


Remember – “We want a red white and blue BREXIT – that is the right BREXIT for the United Kingdom”
Which roughly translates into – not got a clue right now.


But what she did do at that time was meet privately with the captains of British industry, in particular the bosses of certain car manufactures.  They have been given assurances.  In other words, there will not be a No Deal BREXIT.


So the choice is;
May’s deal.
Or suspend article 50. 



May will be meeting Juncker to discuss our future relationship under the deal that is on the table, and further to discuss a possible political melt-down in the UK. Ie contingency plans to avert a NO Deal situation. 
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 06:47:09 pm
Scottish Independence Chap, I'm still waiting for your reply to:




And we should listen to you because...?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 06:58:16 pm
Quote
They know full well us leaving would seriously wound them.
Sorry – so May should – pull out a loaded gun, point it at her own heid, and shout at Barnier “This is going to seriously wound you!” then pull the trigger!


I see. :eek
 
Yes it would seriously wound Barnier because her head would be is up his arse just like it has been for 2 years

 :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 November 2018, 06:58:53 pm
Quote
Now, I don't care what the draft deal says, it is time we just walked away from that snake pit.
I agree ditch the draft deal and cancel article 50 - job done.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 07:19:24 pm
Quote
Now, I don't care what the draft deal says, it is time we just walked away from that snake pit.
I agree ditch the draft deal and cancel any further attempts to make a deal with the EU - job done.


At last, we agree on something  :rollin


Pity, as your view from your anti-UK position counts for less than nothing  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 07:24:39 pm
Scottish Independence Chap, I'm still waiting for your reply to:




And we should listen to you because...?


Are you struggling with this one VNA? What's up, having trouble with the English language?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 07:41:37 pm
Scottish Independence Chap, I'm still waiting for your reply to:




And we should listen to you because...?


Are you struggling with this one VNA? What's up, having trouble with the English language?  :lol


Why are we waiting
VNA's hesitating


 :rollin


I guess he must be realising the hypocrisy of his position.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 07:45:41 pm
Quote
mtread, what qualifications and experience do you have that give you more knowledge than him?    You're a former...what, exactly?



I'm a retired HM Customs & Excise policy maker,  and law and regulation implementer. That good enough for you?  :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 07:52:58 pm
Quote
mtread, what qualifications and experience do you have that give you more knowledge than him?    You're a former...what, exactly?



I'm a retired HM Customs & Excise policy maker,  and law and regulation implementer. That good enough for you?  :b



Retired? Then no, it's not good enough for me, since a former Aussie PM isn't good enough for you  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 November 2018, 07:56:17 pm
Quote
mtread, what qualifications and experience do you have that give you more knowledge than him?    You're a former...what, exactly?



I'm a retired HM Customs & Excise policy maker,  and law and regulation implementer. That good enough for you?  :b



Retired? Then no, it's not good enough for me, since a former Aussie PM isn't good enough for you  :lol
Touché
And yes the irony of that phrase I have not missed - given the conversation  subject
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 07:56:30 pm
Yeah Hedgetrimmer, you don't accept  anything unless it fits your Brexit Brick Wall. Here's your new ballot paper.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 07:58:12 pm
Quote
touché


Hardly....  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 08:02:26 pm
Yeah Hedgetrimmer, you don't accept  anything unless it fits your Brexit Brick Wall.




Mmhmm? And what of your Remain one?  ;)   :wall :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 18 November 2018, 08:08:49 pm
Scottish Independence Chap, I'm still waiting for your reply to:




And we should listen to you because...?


Are you struggling with this one VNA? What's up, having trouble with the English language?  :lol


Why are we waiting
VNA's hesitating


 :rollin


I guess he must be realising the hypocrisy of his position.
You just know he's googling shit so he can come back with a load of pointless anonymous quotes and handpicked unproven  supposed facts along with plethora of eyelid closing waffle. :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 08:10:53 pm
Meanwhile, I'm just continuing to take the piss ;)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 08:13:18 pm
Meanwhile, I'm just continuing to take the piss ;)


Because that's all you've got left  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 08:14:12 pm
You just know he's googling shit so he can come back with a load of pointless anonymous quotes and handpicked unproven  supposed facts along with plethora of eyelid closing waffle. :lol :lol :lol


Depressing isn't it. Probably thinks we'll all read them too  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 08:26:30 pm
Quote
mtread, what qualifications and experience do you have that give you more knowledge than him?    You're a former...what, exactly?



I'm a retired HM Customs & Excise policy maker,  and law and regulation implementer. That good enough for you?  :b



Retired? Then no, it's not good enough for me, since a former Aussie PM isn't good enough for you  :lol

 I was thinking oh no Hedgetrimmer's focced :'( , then the genius reply saves the day  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 08:35:48 pm

 I was thinking oh no Hedgetrimmer's focced :'( , then the genius reply saves the day  :lol


You're not likely to be focced in this argument when you're on the side of democracy, YamFazFan.
It seems ze Germans along with the French are getting ready to enforce their vision of ze fourth Reich on the rest of Europe. Hopefully, just by political means this time, but it still illustrates their dislike of democracy.
It doesn't seem long ago we were getting a hammering for our old empire, and enforcing our way on others around the world. But now, suddenly, it's ok if the Franco-German "visionaries" want to do it to the rest of Europe. History shows us too that expansionism knows no bounds.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 08:58:07 pm
Quote
You're not likely to be focced in this argument when you're on the side of democracy,
I take it you'd be quite happy with another referendum then? Just to reinforce the Leave vote of course? After all,  you've got nothing to lose....

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 November 2018, 09:00:20 pm
Quote
You're not likely to be focced in this argument when you're on the side of democracy, YamFazFan.
It seems ze Germans along with the French are getting ready to enforce their vision of ze fourth Reich on the rest of Europe. Hopefully, just by political means this time, but it still illustrates their dislike of democracy.
It doesn't seem long ago we were getting a hammering for our old empire, and enforcing our way on others around the world. But now, suddenly, it's ok if the Franco-German "visionaries" want to do it to the rest of Europe. History shows us too that expansionism knows no bounds.
Help ma boab!
 Presumably you are in with the fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists of UKIP.   :eek :eek
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 November 2018, 09:01:32 pm
 Mtread, if possible, and seeing as you have some experience and expertise in this area, could you explain to the forum, briefly and in layman’s terms, what is likely to happen after 29th march 2019 if the UK were to crash out of the EU with no deal? 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 10:03:43 pm


 I was thinking oh no Hedgetrimmer's focced :'( , then the genius reply saves the day  :lol


You're not likely to be focced in this argument when you're on the side of democracy, YamFazFan.


Undeniably true :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 November 2018, 10:14:32 pm

Mtread, if possible, and seeing as you have some experience and expertise in this area, could you explain to the forum, briefly and in layman’s terms, what is likely to happen after 29th march 2019 if the UK were to crash out of the EU with no deal?


You're only asking mtread because you know he's going to give an answer you agree with :lol


He might well have expertise in those areas he's stated, but that's no guarantee of an unbiased opinion ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 18 November 2018, 10:25:09 pm
Help ma boab!
 Presumably you are in with the fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists of UKIP.   :eek :eek


You can presume what you like - ready to invoke Godwin yet?  :rolleyes 
Are you now going to tell us why we should listen to you at all? Considering your anti-UK stance?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 November 2018, 11:58:44 pm
Quote
You're only asking mtread because you know he's going to give an answer you agree with He might well have expertise in those areas he's stated, but that's no guarantee of an unbiased opinion




The purely technical unbiased view is that we leave without a 'transitional period'. We immediately go onto what is called '3rd Country' terms and trade with the EU as an outside country. Because we haven't joined EFTA or the EEA we would be subject to Customs controls for freight and passengers at all border points. Under EU rules we haven't agreed terms with any other countries, so by 29 March we will have no trade agreements at all, with anybody. I doubt there has been much if any preparation for this.


That's just the Customs side. Similar issues with fishing, agricultural policy, medicines, air traffic, residency rights etc etc etc.


What the consequences of all that is, short term and long term, I'll let you think about.


Has anybody here read the current draft withdrawal agreement? I have, otherwise I'd be relying on other people's biased opinions, or what's written on the side of a bus.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 12:02:54 am
Back to the bias. So Brexiteers, which one is it?



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 November 2018, 12:07:11 am
You can presume what you like - ready to invoke Godwin yet?  :rolleyes   
I had to look that up. I'd never heard of that term before and had no idea what it meant.
They refer to it as 'Godwin's Law' on Wikipedia. Interesting. I can understand the context that you've used it in now. I was aware of people using what I now know as 'Godwin's' previously, but didn't know that there was a recognised definition of it.
I'd just interpreted it as sore losers making a desperate attempt to kill an argument they'd lost ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 19 November 2018, 08:27:54 am

There's an easy answer to this Brexit/remain problem. Give the English people a referendum on remaining in the UK or being an independent country same as the Scottish had' or at least let us have equal  rights to the Scottish, welsh and Ulster our own assembly, so we don't have to listen to to bias and whinning from them.












 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 November 2018, 10:18:24 am



Has anybody here read the current draft withdrawal agreement? I have, otherwise I'd be relying on other people's biased opinions, or what's written on the side of a bus.



What all 585 pages? :eek . I'd laugh if you got to the end and the last page was missing ;) :lol .



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 10:25:07 am
Good one. Somebody probably lit a fag with it or something  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 10:29:35 am
I've been thinking about this long and hard overnight and had a bit of an epiphany. Looking at all the pros and cons, and all the suggestions on here, particularly Dazza's detailed analysis of Article 24 of the Withdrawal Agreement, and the effect on seasonal EU workers in the agricultural sector, and I'm finally persuaded we ought to Leave :'(














































































.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 November 2018, 10:57:52 am

Good one. Somebody probably lit a fag with it or something  ;)



I knew you'd spot that one. Couldn't resist it ;) .


Everyone else is thinking 'what the foc are they on about?'  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 November 2018, 11:04:11 am

I've been thinking about this long and hard overnight and had a bit of an epiphany. Looking at all the pros and cons, and all the suggestions on here, particularly Dazza's detailed analysis of Article 24 of the Withdrawal Agreement, and the effect on seasonal EU workers in the agricultural sector, and I'm finally persuaded we ought to Leave :'(














































































.


I'm sure I own the copyright © to some of that text :rolleyes :lol


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 11:18:48 am
Quote
I knew you'd spot that one. Couldn't resist it .Everyone else is thinking 'what the foc are they on about?' 



Yep, that skinny bloke for a start. He could have gone without any hardship whatsoever.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 11:40:23 am
Quote
I'm sure I own the copyright © to some of that text [/size] 



OK, so you could always try suing me............ in the European Courts  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 19 November 2018, 12:18:31 pm
I just did a search for "brexit what will happen under WTO rules", here's the first seven results:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45112872 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45112872)
https://theconversation.com/no-deal-seven-reasons-why-a-wto-only-brexit-would-be-bad-for-britain-102009 (https://theconversation.com/no-deal-seven-reasons-why-a-wto-only-brexit-would-be-bad-for-britain-102009)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-leave-no-deal-what-happens-eu-talks-david-davis-a8460416.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-leave-no-deal-what-happens-eu-talks-david-davis-a8460416.html)
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/no-deal-the-wto-option/ (http://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/no-deal-the-wto-option/)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/17/the-guardian-view-on-brexit-and-trade-the-wto-is-not-a-safety-net (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/17/the-guardian-view-on-brexit-and-trade-the-wto-is-not-a-safety-net)
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-deal/no-deal-brexit-what-it-might-mean-for-britain-idUSKBN1KS1E2 (https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-deal/no-deal-brexit-what-it-might-mean-for-britain-idUSKBN1KS1E2)
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/01/09/why-the-wto-option-for-brexit-will-prove-tricky (https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2017/01/09/why-the-wto-option-for-brexit-will-prove-tricky)
Can't say I see many positive views there.
Still, I'm sure Jacob Rees-Mogg is right that in 50 years everything will be great...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 November 2018, 01:40:35 pm

Quote
I'm sure I own the copyright © to some of that text  



OK, so you could always try suing me............ in the European Courts  :lol



Hmmm maybe not. I'd had a few too many light ales down at The Hand and Racket that night :o
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 03:01:08 pm
Well stone me. And you a blood doner too  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 19 November 2018, 03:37:30 pm
We should treat VNA and mtread with the contempt they deserve and should totally ignore their pathetic ramblings. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 04:05:05 pm
Ha. Sounds like someone who has lost the argument to me :)



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 November 2018, 04:23:55 pm

We should treat VNA and mtread with the contempt they deserve and should totally ignore their pathetic ramblings.


That's a bit harsh isn't it? :rolleyes .


You devised the thread so that folk who disliked it being in the What Gets My Goat one didn't have to suffer the distress of reading any of the content.


I'm glad you did. It's currently my favourite thread on here :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 November 2018, 04:51:46 pm
We should treat VNA and mtread with the contempt they deserve and should totally ignore their pathetic ramblings.
The moment VNA described everyone who voted UKIP as a closet racist tells you everything you need to know about the man.
I was going to say he has no understanding of what a racist actually is but that would be untrue..... He only has to look in the mirror and go back and study some of his previous rants on this thread and others to know what a real racist sounds and looks like.
He hates the English and it shows.


This is how I see things.....
I don't pretend to understand the complexities of the whole situation, I would bet good money to say that nobody does.
However, I would liken it to being in a toxic relationship where your identity and personal wellbeing is being eroded away. As well as being a financial drain, you find you are having to do things you don't want to or agree with because your toxic partner and their associates are ganging up on you and think they know best.
You know you need to break free  but the thought of the uncertainty is keeping you from making the break.
You think about all the financial implications of leaving and know for a time you may well be worse off.
BUT......you have to think about the long term plan and getting your personal wellbeing and independence back.
If there's something that they don't like they protest with no regard to how it effects you ( operation stack)
You throw a party and they invite all their freeloading friends who want to eat your food and drink your beer.
Some of them even want to steal from you and tap into your generosity.
Most of them contribute and they are welcome but.......
A small minority want to fucking stab you and set fire to your house and you are powerless because your toxic partner is dictating what you have to put up with.
Fuck, some of them even want to rape and drug my underage daughter !
Bottom line is, I don't have to be a fucking expert to see what is happening to our once great country, I just need to have the courage make the break and take my happiness back.
If that's makes me a racist VNA, them I'm happy to accept your meaningless label.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 04:59:11 pm
Quote
I don't pretend to understand the complexities of the whole situation, I would bet good money to say that nobody does.


Hopefully somebody does, otherwise we are in real real trouble :eek


On your other point, obviously true, but reminds me of a phrase I've seen quoted - '' Not all Brexiteers are racist, but all racists are Brexiteers ''
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 November 2018, 05:03:46 pm
Do you ? Honestly ?
And seriously mtread, as soon as you spout the racist card you lose credibility.
It's not racist to want control of your destiny.
I've experienced racism first hand....In Scotland, Wales, Ireland and on the continent. All against the English.
As a nation we've always welcomed other nationalities and I'm certainly not a racist.
Of course they exist, everywhere. Some are even disguised as liberals and left wingers.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 05:19:23 pm
I agree with what you say. But you haven't understood what I said. Read it again.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 November 2018, 05:28:48 pm
I agree with what you say. But you haven't understood what I said. Read it again.
I don't need to read it again to disagree with it.
The claim that all racists are brexiteers couldn't be further from the truth..... Just ask VNA  :lol
(That was tongue in cheek btw)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 05:57:06 pm
And seriously dazza,  as soon as you spout the racist card you lose Credibility :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 November 2018, 06:04:43 pm
 :lol  Knew that was coming  :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 November 2018, 06:07:36 pm
Quote
The purely technical unbiased view is that we leave without a 'transitional period'. We immediately go onto what is called '3rd Country' terms and trade with the EU as an outside country. Because we haven't joined EFTA or the EEA we would be subject to Customs controls for freight and passengers at all border points. Under EU rules we haven't agreed terms with any other countries, so by 29 March we will have no trade agreements at all, with anybody. I doubt there has been much if any preparation for this.
 
 
That's just the Customs side. Similar issues with fishing, agricultural policy, medicines, air traffic, residency rights etc etc etc.
 
 
What the consequences of all that is, short term and long term, I'll let you think about.
 
 
Has anybody here read the current draft withdrawal agreement? I have, otherwise I'd be relying on other people's biased opinions, or what's written on the side of a bus.
OK. 
So, say the UK crashes out of the UK on the 29th of march 2019.  And say I have a small to medium manufacturing company (I don’t) making say fuel pumps for the auto industry.  I’ve got a number of contracts and one very nice one with a French car maker.  So twice a week I send a big truck full of fuel pumps to France.  I have an ongoing order, x number of pumps per week, top quality and must be delivered on time.  So it’s pretty simple, I send the pumps as asked, and they transfer the funds once a month to the company accounts.  We’re in the single market so it’s no different, apart from the exchange rate, than selling in the UK.  So easy.
My company has had informal reassurance through the industry that No Deal will not happen.  We’ve been told May has given private assurances to the big industry bosses.  Nothing to worry about really.   Competition is stiff and margins are tight, but all is OK. 
Shock horror we crash out of the EU.
I send truck as usual on the 30th of March.  I’ve done exactly as I’ve been doing for years.
So what will happen?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 November 2018, 07:44:42 pm
OK. 
So, say the UK crashes out of the UK on the 29th of march 2019.  And say I have a small to medium manufacturing company (I don’t) making say fuel pumps for the auto industry.  I’ve got a number of contracts and one very nice one with a French car maker.  So twice a week I send a big truck full of fuel pumps to France.  I have an ongoing order, x number of pumps per week, top quality and must be delivered on time.  So it’s pretty simple, I send the pumps as asked, and they transfer the funds once a month to the company accounts.  We’re in the single market so it’s no different, apart from the exchange rate, than selling in the UK.  So easy.
My company has had informal reassurance through the industry that No Deal will not happen.  We’ve been told May has given private assurances to the big industry bosses.  Nothing to worry about really.   Competition is stiff and margins are tight, but all is OK. 
Shock horror we crash out of the EU.
I send truck as usual on the 30th of March.  I’ve done exactly as I’ve been doing for years.
So what will happen?

Ha I've spotted the fatal flaw in your exemplar ;) .
You state that said fuel pumps are top quality.........what are they doing going into French cars then? :lol . It was all very credible up to that point :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 19 November 2018, 08:39:22 pm
This thread is better than watching the news about Brexit  :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 November 2018, 09:56:13 pm
Agree. Well, better than watching the BBC 'news' about it :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 11:55:47 pm
OK here's a more straightforward example




Under Article 13 of the draft transition agreement between UK and EU:


''Union citizens and United Kingdom nationals shall have the right to reside in the host State
under the limitations and conditions''

As I said I've read it :)


So under a No Deal scenario,  that will not apply and from the 30th March when we leave the EU with no deal, all UK citizens living in EU countries lose their right to residency, and can be sent home.


Everybody happy with that? Or didn't you realise?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 November 2018, 11:58:28 pm
And just to stimulate discussion, here's today's picture :)



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 November 2018, 07:53:47 am

OK here's a more straightforward example




Under Article 13 of the draft transition agreement between UK and EU:


''Union citizens and United Kingdom nationals shall have the right to reside in the host State
under the limitations and conditions''

As I said I've read it :)


So under a No Deal scenario,  that will not apply and from the 30th March when we leave the EU with no deal, all UK citizens living in EU countries lose their right to residency, and can be sent home.


Everybody happy with that? Or didn't you realise?


Doesn't bother me. I've got no intention of living anywhere else.


I'd imagine that they'd come up with some sort of similar residency deal to the one in the draft agreement after we leave with no deal.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 November 2018, 08:59:06 am

I like the picture by the way. Here's an alternative version of the script...






'Who are we?'......'Remainers!'


'What do we want?'......'A fourth referendum!'


'When do we want it?'.....'After we've lost the second and third!'


 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 10:18:02 am
Quote
Doesn't bother me. I've got no intention of living anywhere else.


So you're quite happy to explain to the Forum members on here living in the EU why you want them sent home then? Typical selfish Brexiteer.




Quote
I'd imagine that they'd come up with some sort of similar residency deal [/size]
[size=78%] [/size]
[/size][size=78%]You imagine! What do you think has been going on for the last two and a half years covering residency and everything else that's important. It's called a deal, which is clearly what you lot don't want.[/size]

Honestly, does the attention span of Brexiteers not go beyond what's written on a bus. :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 November 2018, 11:33:33 am

We don't want the deal that's currently on offer no.


I don't want those forum members sent home. I'm not bothered either way. It's nice to go on holiday but actually living abroad has never appealed to me one iota, so I have zero interest in the matter.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 11:51:57 am
But that is the inevitable consequence of not having a deal with the EU by 29th March. It is what you do want.  :rolleyes



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 11:56:49 am
Hang on a minute, I'll just check what's written on the bus.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 November 2018, 12:15:24 pm
I wonder how many UK nationals living in the EU voted Leave
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 November 2018, 12:20:56 pm

I wonder how many UK nationals living in the EU voted Leave


I'd laugh if it's loads of them and they've basically just signed their own deportation orders :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 20 November 2018, 12:27:42 pm
No one need be deported if both sides are sensible about it. Except those living in a country illegally. The sooner they are deported, the better. One thing about May's deal that is good is that those living and working here already can stay. Thereafter, those wishing to come here must fit the UK's requirements, which are not unreasonable, and is a sensible thing to do.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 20 November 2018, 12:29:51 pm
Yes, they're all going to be deported and their properties bulldozed. :rolleyes
Exactly the sort of scaremongering we've been bombarded with throughout.
This isn't the Gaza strip we're talking about.
Please don't tell me you actually believe that'll happen.  :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 12:44:13 pm
Quote
I wonder how many UK nationals living in the EU voted Leave


None. If they weren't on the electoral roll in the UK, they didn't get a vote


Quote
Please don't tell me you actually believe that'll happen.  [/size]


What is it about 'No Deal' that you don't understand? So you like playing 'chicken' then?

The EU have made it clear that the current (agreed) deal can't be amended. We can't pick and choose what we want from it.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 November 2018, 12:52:48 pm

Hang on a minute, I'll just check what's written on the bus.....


I've just seen that bus!. Some remoaners bought it. It's now got a slogan on the side warning that UK nationals houses will be bulldozed and they'll get deported :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 12:53:08 pm
Quote
One thing about May's deal that is good is that those living and working here already can stay. Thereafter, those wishing to come here must fit the UK's requirements, which are not unreasonable, and is a sensible thing to do.


Again, factually wrong. When the transition deal starts on 30th March any other EU nationals can still come and stay and work during the transition period. After that these also can stay permanently if they've lived here for 5 years. Oh and they can bring their relatives to stay permanently. It's all in Article 13.  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 November 2018, 12:54:37 pm
Quote
I wonder how many UK nationals living in the EU voted Leave

None. If they weren't on the electoral roll in the UK, they didn't get a vote

So out of all of those that did have a vote - I wonder how many voted for brexit.
Quote
The EU have made it clear that the current (agreed) deal can't be amended.
Well of course they will say that wont they. That's called negotiating- something that May and the other morons have not got a clue how to do.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 12:58:02 pm
Hang on a minute! Who's withdrawn a post I've just replied to?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 01:08:01 pm
Quote
So out of all of those that did have a vote - I wonder how many voted for brexit.


Gibraltar (which did have a vote) is probably a good indicator - 96% Remain 4% Leave.


Now who's laughing  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 November 2018, 01:15:06 pm
Quote
So out of all of those that did have a vote - I wonder how many voted for brexit.

Gibraltar (which did have a vote) is probably a good indicator - 96% Remain 4% Leave.


So you're quite happy to explain to the Forum members on here living in the EU why you want them sent home then? Typical selfish Brexiteer.
 
So the Brexiteers are selfish but all those that voted to remain are not selfish.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 20 November 2018, 01:39:54 pm
Quote
One thing about May's deal that is good is that those living and working here already can stay. Thereafter, those wishing to come here must fit the UK's requirements, which are not unreasonable, and is a sensible thing to do.


Again, factually wrong. When the transition deal starts on 30th March any other EU nationals can still come and stay and work during the transition period. After that these also can stay permanently if they've lived here for 5 years. Oh and they can bring their relatives to stay permanently. It's all in Article 13.  :D


That's ok, because I want this deal to be rejected in Parliament, which it will be. Under a no deal exit, which is the only other option the EU will accept, we can decide for ourselves who stays and who comes in. It won't matter to you, because if Brexit goes through, you'll move to the EU. Everybody happy!  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 01:40:55 pm
Quote
So the Brexiteers are selfish but all those that voted to remain are not selfish.


Well done, you've got it at last  :)


Remainers want Forum members to live wherever they choose.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 November 2018, 01:47:06 pm

Quote
I wonder how many UK nationals living in the EU voted Leave


None. If they weren't on the electoral roll in the UK, they didn't get a vote



Why is there a full stop after the word 'None'?.


I've just looked it up. If they'd appeared on the electoral role within the previous 15 years then they were eligible to vote.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 01:54:43 pm
Quote
That's ok, because I want this deal to be rejected in Parliament,
Well at least that's one thing we want the same :\


Quote
we can decide for ourselves who stays and who comes in.
And so can the entire EU, or is that concept too difficult to grasp?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 20 November 2018, 01:58:04 pm

Remainers want Forum members to live wherever they choose.


I have no qualms about where you live  :)


But why would you stay in a country that, having left the EU, has, by your own admission, nothing left to offer you?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 02:03:16 pm
Quote
I've just seen that bus!. Some remoaners bought it. It's now got a slogan on the side warning that UK nationals houses will be bulldozed and they'll get deported

Blimey, don't you Brexiteers have any funny pictures of your own? Where's all that home grown talent you keep banging on about
 :rolleyes
Here's the last piss take for today
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 20 November 2018, 02:05:44 pm
Quote
That's ok, because I want this deal to be rejected in Parliament,
Well at least that's one thing we want the same :\


 Which doesn't make any sense going on the things you have previously said, such as the EU represents you better than the UK. This deal will give you remain in all but name. You don't want the UK to be able to make its own decisions about anything - under this agreement, we won't be able to.


Quote
Quote
we can decide for ourselves who stays and who comes in.
And so can the entire EU, or is that concept too difficult to grasp?


The EU wants to take in anyone from anywhere in the world who shouts "refugee!" loudly enough, without making any checks before admitting them. It then wants to tell us how many of those people we should blindly accept. You see sense in that. I don't. It also wants us to take in economic migrants who do not have the qualifications we need, when our infrastructure is crumbling and those born here can't get access to the services they need as it is.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 20 November 2018, 02:09:06 pm
I personally can't wait till they start ethnically cleansing us from Europe. It's going to be so much fun smashing things up over here.
Mtread, seriously, get a grip on reality. :lol 
This is scaremongering to the highest degree and typical bully boy tactics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hcmGG6VUsU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hcmGG6VUsU)



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 November 2018, 04:39:14 pm

Blimey, don't you Brexiteers have any funny pictures of your own?



Yes :rollin :rollin :rollin



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 05:05:43 pm
Quote
But why would you stay in a country that, having left the EU, has, by your own admission, nothing left to offer you?
You are obviously missing the irony of your statement there  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 November 2018, 05:57:13 pm
 
Quote
'What do we want?'......'A fourth referendum!'

You might get a second referendum, and here’s the question.
Do you wish to accept the BREXIT deal and leave the EU.OrDo you wish to cancel and article 50 and remain in the EU.
 
Quote
No one need be deported if both sides are sensible about it. Except those living in a country illegally.
Hedgetrimmer - You just don’t get it. :wall   UK nationals living abroad become as you say ‘illegal’ in the event of a NO DEAL BREXIT. 
Quote
So out of all of those that did have a vote - I wonder how many voted for brexit.
I can tell you what we voted for here in Scotland if that helps you fazersharp.  We voted overwhelmingly to REMAIN!
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 20 November 2018, 06:08:48 pm
Quote
But why would you stay in a country that, having left the EU, has, by your own admission, nothing left to offer you?
You are obviously missing the irony of your statement there  :rolleyes


Perhaps. Care to explain it to me?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 November 2018, 06:19:08 pm
 
Quote
The EU wants to take in anyone from anywhere in the world who shouts "refugee!" loudly enough, without making any checks before admitting them. It then wants to tell us how many of those people we should blindly accept. You see sense in that. I don't. It also wants us to take in economic migrants who do not have the qualifications we need, when our infrastructure is crumbling and those born here can't get access to the services they need as it is.

What I don’t see sense in is our wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.  What I don’t see sense in is funding Islamic fundamentalists around the world just as wee have done in Syria.  What I don’t see sense in is selling arms to sick Wahhabist nutters in Saudia Arbaia who not only use them to kill civilans in Yemen but happen to think nothing of murdering guests to their foreign consulates.


Anybody who shouts refugee indeed.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 November 2018, 06:26:53 pm
Mtread,
Please see my post #373
 It's the 31st of march now.  My driver tells me he's stuck in a truck park in Kent and nobody is moving.  He also mentioned something about other drivers talking about customs forms.  Meanwhile if I don't get this truck to France in the next day I'll loose my contract to one of my many European competitors.

There's also rumours all the car production lines in England are grinding to a hault.

How do I now export my goods as an external country to the EU?
Help! :eek :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 06:43:59 pm
Quote
Perhaps. Care to explain it to me?


I thought it was blindingly obvious, but :


1. You've presumably not moved to a non-EU country in the last 26 years since the Maastrict Treaty, despite hating it, but more importantly
2. It's your selfish opinion that would prevent me from living in an EU country, even if I wanted to


Assuming you get your way of course
 :b

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 20 November 2018, 06:46:52 pm

2. It's your selfish opinion that would prevent me from living in an EU country, even if I wanted to




This could be sorted if the EU had the will. It is up to us and them, no one else.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 06:55:58 pm
quote] How do I now export my goods as an external country to the EU?Help! 
1. You wait
2. You wait some more
3. Keep waiting
4. You get to the front of the queue
5. You go on the ferry /tunnel
6. The nice French Douane man tells you to wait in a queue
7. You wait some more
8. You get to the front of the queue
9. The not so nice French Douane man rummages your lorry looking for illicit foodstuffs, dangerous non EC approved stuff etc etc
10. You pay lots of duties and VAT
11. You set off
12. You get flagged down again at the Dutch border
13. Repeat 6 - 9
14. Likewise the German, Czech etc borders until you get to your destination
15. Your stuff in the lorry starts to smell real bad
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 07:00:15 pm
Quote
This could be sorted if the EU had the will. It is up to us and them, no one else.


Sorry, I thought 'No deal' was No Deal. You can't have 'The bits of the deal I want, but not the rest'


(Continues banging head on the wall)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 November 2018, 07:09:52 pm
 Shit.  So I’ll loose the contract cos



1.  I can’t meet their delivery terms now.  And;
2.  They’ve rejected my price adjustment cos of the taxes.  It’s simpler and now cheaper for them to buy their pumps within the EU.  I’m focced.


I’ve just lost all my EU contracts.
Plus, I’m losing UK contacts as their production lines grind to a halt.
In fact, my business is rapidly going bust.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 20 November 2018, 07:16:19 pm
Quote
This could be sorted if the EU had the will. It is up to us and them, no one else.


Sorry, I thought 'No deal' was No Deal. You can't have 'The bits of the deal I want, but not the rest'


If that's the way the EU wants it, then fine.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 November 2018, 07:46:14 pm
No Deal is not an option. 

It is not going to happen.
Article 50 being shredded is a more likely outcome than No Deal.
And at the end of the day the best deal is the deal we already have.
Plus it maintains the Good Friday Agreement and sees Indy Ref 2 consigned to the bin.
The referendum is not binding.  BREXIT is increasingly looking impossible (what some of us have known all along) and yup we are indeed a represntative democracy.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 07:54:29 pm
Quote
If that's the way the EU wants it, then fine.


The word 'Deal' suggests agreement between two or more parties.


I'll be sending out dictionaries for Xmas  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 08:02:51 pm
quote] Shit.  So I’ll loose the contract cos [/size]1.  I can’t meet their delivery terms now.  And;2.  They’ve rejected my price adjustment cos of the taxes.  It’s simpler and now cheaper for them to buy their pumps within the EU.  I’m focced.I’ve just lost all my EU contracts.Plus, I’m losing UK contacts as their production lines grind to a halt.In fact, my business is rapidly going bust.


O no. I've completely missed out a stage. I'd be sacked if I hadn't retired!  ;)


4a. Present your Export documentation to the UK Border Force officer to claim back duties and VAT.
4b. Wait while UKBF checks through your goods to make sure you are not overclaiming.


If it's across the Irish Land Border, there's an extra one too


4c. Step outside while somebody in a balaclava sets fire to your lorry
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 November 2018, 08:12:46 pm
Quote
4a. Present your Export documentation to the UK Border Force officer to claim back duties and VAT.
4b. Wait while UKBF checks through your goods to make sure you are not overclaiming.


If it's across the Irish Land Border, there's an extra one too


4c. Step outside while somebody in a balaclava sets fire to your lorry

But nobody has a clue about any of that stuff anymore.So we all need to employ people to put the system in place and do the paperwork, keep records etc etc.  That's a massive burden on industry.
Then we'll need to employ thousands of customs officers - or well maybe not as the UK will quickly go bust.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 November 2018, 08:44:06 pm
 Other reasons why NO DEAL is not an option are;


Aside from it destroying our economy.
Trashing our currency.
Downgrading our credit rating.


 
Well the UK will be seen as untrustworthy.  We will have been seen to walk away from our commitments.
It sends a signal to the world the UK cannot be trusted.  That the UK is a country that reneges on commitment and contract. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 November 2018, 08:54:01 pm
What is likely to happen next if Parliament rejects the Brexit deal but The Government wins a subsequent confidence vote?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 20 November 2018, 09:18:43 pm
Quote
If that's the way the EU wants it, then fine.


The word 'Deal' suggests agreement between two or more parties.


I'll be sending out dictionaries for Xmas  :)


You see, that's where your argument fails. No deal means that we aren't bound by EU rules anymore. Therefore, if we want to to say EU citizens living and working here can stay, we can. But we can also say that to only the ones who benefit us by being here. Or to whoever we decide we want to. That's the point of no deal that seems to be going straight over your head. We will have the sovereignty over our own land to do as we see fit, for our benefit. Then, if the EU still wants to chuck UK citizens out, we'll see (more of) their true colours.


The EU says it has things to lose by us leaving. After a no deal exit, it will then be up to them to demonstrate if they mean that, or they want nothing more to do with us. You Remainers only see the extremes of everything. Perhaps that is why the EU suits you so much. If the EU then wants to negotiate common ground in various things sensibly, i.e. they give up this idea that they can just dictate to us, then we'll see a new relationship develop.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 20 November 2018, 09:20:01 pm
What is likely to happen next if Parliament rejects the Brexit deal but The Government wins a subsequent confidence vote?.


Then it's likely that on March 29th we will leave with no deal, as the EU will refuse any further negotiations.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 November 2018, 09:34:39 pm
 
Quote
What is likely to happen next if Parliament rejects the Brexit deal but The Government wins a subsequent confidence vote?.

Your question is irrelevant because I cannot see how, as things stand right now, how the government could loose a vote of no -confidence.  Therefore there will not be a vote of no-confidence. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 November 2018, 09:40:17 pm
What is likely to happen next if Parliament rejects the Brexit deal but The Government wins a subsequent confidence vote?.


Then it's likely that on March 29th we will leave with no deal, as the EU will refuse any further negotiations.

Right no deal it is then. That's that one sorted. I'm positive we'll be fine. We had all this doomsday scenario stuff just before The Millenium didn't we and nothing happened. The EU will miss us more than we miss them :D . Well they'll miss our cash anyway :lol .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 20 November 2018, 09:49:50 pm
The EU will miss us more than we miss them :D . Well they'll miss our cash anyway :lol .


That, at the end of the day, is all they're interested in us for. Or more specifically, the financial powerhouse called London.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 November 2018, 09:56:59 pm
 But as I’ve pointed out there will not be a vote of no confidence.


It is likely that May’s deal will be voted down. 
Not sure what happens then.


But I think cross party emergency talks will be held, along with emergency talks with the EU.
There might be very minor adjustments to May’s deal.
If parliament fail to pass the deal again, there will be a referendum.


A No Deal option will be ruled out by parliamentary vote.


So, if, and I say if, there is s second referendum (if emergency cross party talks fail) then the question will be;


May’s deal
Or
Tear up article 50.
This second referendum will be binding.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 20 November 2018, 10:20:30 pm
 One for you VNA.
I know you're going to hate it because he refers to "Englishmen"  :lol
[size=78%]https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2413308192062759&id=129617873765147 (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2413308192062759&id=129617873765147)[/size]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 11:29:02 pm
quote] What is likely to happen next if Parliament rejects the Brexit deal but The Government wins a subsequent confidence vote?.


Then it's likely that on March 29th we will leave with no deal, as the EU will refuse any further negotiations.


That is one option. The other is to postpone the March 29 Article 50 deadline while other options are looked at. The EU have said they might be willing to do that.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 11:39:11 pm
Quote


Blimey, don't you Brexiteers have any funny pictures of your own?




Yes   



[size=0.85em][/size]
[size=0.85em]


Glad you like that one  :) That's the 700, 000 who marched in London. The 2nd biggest march since the Iraq war one.
Not sure how many were at Nigel's 'Leave Means Leave' do in, where was it, oh yes Harrogate. Perhaps you could remind us  :lol [/size]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 November 2018, 11:50:31 pm
Quote
We had all this doomsday scenario stuff just before The Millenium didn't we and nothing happened.  [/size] .

Now from all I've read on here that is the biggest piece of bollocks I've heard.  As someone who led major projects during 5 years of preparation for the year 2000, I can tell you it was planning and effort by many thousands of people that avoided a domesday scenario.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 21 November 2018, 04:50:49 am
https://www.facebook.com/1292186199/posts/10213279380241005/ (https://www.facebook.com/1292186199/posts/10213279380241005/)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 November 2018, 06:15:36 am
Quote
We had all this doomsday scenario stuff just before The Millenium didn't we and nothing happened.  .
Now from all I've read on here that is the biggest piece of bollocks I've heard. 

I don't know whether to take that as an insult or a compliment :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 November 2018, 08:10:06 am

What I don’t see sense in is our wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.  What I don’t see sense in is funding Islamic fundamentalists around the world just as wee have done in Syria.  What I don’t see sense in is selling arms to sick Wahhabist nutters in Saudia Arbaia who not only use them to kill civilans in Yemen but happen to think nothing of murdering guests to their foreign consulates.

I don't think many will disagree with you there. But all of that happened when we were IN the EU. So by wanting to stay in the EU you are voting for more of the same. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 November 2018, 08:20:11 am

As someone who led major projects during 5 years of preparation for the year 2000


I couldn't interest you in coming out of retirement to lead another major one for the year 2019 could I?.


You've only got about 4 months this time though :lol .


'Your Country Needs You!' as someone once famously said. ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 November 2018, 09:49:18 am
....it could be your finest h-h-h-half hour :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 November 2018, 08:31:40 pm
Sorry for the delay lads. I've been at the NEC bike show all day. Wanted to see the likes of Ducati, Moto Guzzi, BMW and KTM etc before they're banned from entering /can't be bothered to turn up. The good news is that their spaces are going to be taken up by Royal Enfield in our desire to go back to the 1950s and 60s :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 November 2018, 08:38:00 pm
Quote
I couldn't interest you in coming out of retirement to lead another major one for the year 2019 could I?.You've only got about 4 months this time though  .

Yep OK I'll do it. My fee will be £350 million a week you were going to give to the NHS (apparently). Converted to Euros of course. I don't want to be out of pocket.
Of course like most IT projects it will slip. I can't say how long, but certainly long enough to have another referendum  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 November 2018, 10:49:18 pm
Quote
I know you're going to hate it because he refers to "Englishmen"  :lol
[size=78%]https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2413308192062759&id=129617873765147[/size (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2413308192062759&id=129617873765147%5b/size)]
[/size]
[size=78%]
Bit of a rant from an excitable Englishman.
 [/size]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 November 2018, 10:58:39 pm
   
Quote
As someone who led major projects during 5 years of preparation for the year 2000
 
 
 
I couldn't interest you in coming out of retirement to lead another major one for the year 2019 could I?.
 
 
You've only got about 4 months this time though :lol .
 
 
'Your Country Needs You!' as someone once famously said. ;)

YamFazFan, there are only a couple of weeks left in order to get this deal in place.  Any deal has to go through due process etc.  So we are literally running out of time for the end of march.
 
 
And you need to remember this is a transitional deal, which enables a smooth transition from EU members to becoming non-members.



 
What lies ahead is years of negotiations and legal wrangling.  We are as much as any other country the architects of the EU.  Everything we do is integrated with the EU.   And it has always been a one way project. 



 
The expectation is to have a final agreement in place by 2022.  I suspect that is wildly optimistic.


 
 
And you know something, I still don’t what it is that BREXITEERS are unhappy about.  What are these dreadful laws that have been ‘forced’ upon us?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 November 2018, 09:25:27 am

Quote from: mtread link=topic=24678.msg287530#msg287530 date=1542757151

[size=x-small
[/size]Not sure how many were at Nigel's 'Leave Means Leave' do in, where was it, oh yes Harrogate. Perhaps you could remind us  :lol




The venue holds 2000 and it was approximately 2 thirds full apparently.


It was part of a tour of different venues and it was ticketed. I'd like to see how many remoaners had turned up to the London march if they'd had to pay to get in :lol .


Besides which you're always going to attract more remoaners to these things. They've more of a gripe and they desperately want to reverse the democratic decision.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 November 2018, 09:31:38 am
It's done that quote inserting thing again :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 10:02:32 am
Quote
The venue holds 2000 and it was approximately 2 thirds full apparently.[/size]It was part of a tour of different venues and it was ticketed. I'd like to see how many remoaners had turned up to the London march if they'd had to pay to get in  .Besides which you're always going to attract more remoaners to these things. They've more of a gripe and they desperately want to reverse the democratic decision.



So 666 (that's ominous isn't it) didn't turn up. Or they were probably out busy setting fire to mosques or something....


PS you just need to get your brackets in the right place
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 10:18:47 am
..... and anyway, why would somebody want to pay to hear Farage? Is he that hard up? Hasn't he got his MEP salary to look forward to... (oops forgot). Hasn't he got his party leader's salary to enjoy.... (oops forgot again)  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 November 2018, 10:32:05 am

Yeah I usually get the brackets right. Mess it up sometimes when there's a pic removed in the quote or something :rolleyes .


The other bit of that reply is just plain daft. I can't respond to nonsense like that.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 10:57:35 am
I don't know whether to take that as an insult or a compliment  
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 11:15:16 am
OK so let's seriously analyse the current situation then.
Doesn't look like the Moggies can get the 48 letters together, so Theresa stays.
She's got to get her draft deal through the EU, then Parliament
The EU may be difficult, and Parliament even more so. The Moggies, DUP and the opposition are likely to vote against or abstain.
Apart from the Moggies they've all made clear they will not allow a 'No Deal' result.
So other options will be provided - postponement, amendments to the deal, new referendum etc. We don't know.


The deal is of course 'business as usual' for the next 2 years (or more).  Then they sort out the future arrangements which it is clear will involve some sort of permanent Customs Union with the EU. That will also come with conditions.  May is of course a Remainer after all.


So, if 'No Deal' is off the cards, and the only  choices are Draft Deal followed by Permanent Deal with more conditions, or Remain in the EU as it, what do you vote?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 November 2018, 11:45:55 am

I don't know whether to take that as an insult or a compliment  


I'm not into insulting people and it's definitely not a compliment so maybe there's a third option :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 22 November 2018, 11:54:03 am
mtread, did you predict the result of the EU referendum correctly? A simple yes or no will do.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 12:05:53 pm
Quote
[size=78%]I'm into insulting people and it's definitely not a compliment so maybe there's a third option[/size][/size][size=78%] [/size][/size]
[size=78%]
I think it's called 'ignore the bait'. It's been flying in the opposite direction for some time. [/size]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 12:10:34 pm
Quote
mtread, did you predict the result of the EU referendum correctly? A simple yes or no will do.
No, did you? So let's hear your prediction what happens now.  :pokefun
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 22 November 2018, 12:16:09 pm
Quote
mtread, did you predict the result of the EU referendum correctly? A simple yes or no will do.
No, did you? So let's hear your prediction what happens now.  :pokefun


As I said, a simple one-word answer would have sufficed  ;)


Why do you think you got it wrong?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 November 2018, 12:25:47 pm
Oops that was embarrassing :o . I missed the NOT out of  ' I'm not into insulting people'. Just modified the post. Changes the meaning somewhat lol.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 22 November 2018, 12:27:35 pm
Quote
mtread, did you predict the result of the EU referendum correctly?

 I did and here it is as predicted on 24th October 2014..
 
Yep --what they going do - throw us out which would save us bothering to organise a referendum which would see us leave.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 12:44:43 pm
Quote
As I said, a simple one-word answer would have sufficed  Why do you think you got it wrong?

Whereas you are not answering my question at all  :)
 I got it wrong for similar reasons Farage got it wrong. He thought Remain had won too. In fact he demanded another Referendum.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 12:47:19 pm
Quote
Oops that was embarrassing . I missed the NOT out of  ' I'm not into insulting people'.

I guessed as much  :lol
Next thing you'll know, you be putting your X in the wrong box  :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 22 November 2018, 12:51:25 pm
Quote
As I said, a simple one-word answer would have sufficed  Why do you think you got it wrong?

Whereas you are not answering my question at all  :) 

I didn't attempt to make a prediction.

Quote
I got it wrong for similar reasons Farage got it wrong. He thought Remain had won too. In fact he demanded another Referendum.




See, you do have something in common with Farage  :pokefun :lol


What were the reasons Farage got it wrong?


Btw, I don't much care for him either.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 November 2018, 01:44:10 pm

Quote
Oops that was embarrassing . I missed the NOT out of  ' I'm not into insulting people'.

I guessed as much  :lol
Next thing you'll know, you be putting your X in the wrong box  :b



It's posting on a smart phone mtread. Everything's tiny, the cursor jumps all over the place then freezes, you can't see where peoples quote brackets are, you need finger tips no bigger than match heads :'(


Or maybe it's just my phone :o


Only posting on laptop from now on. Everything works properly on that 8)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 02:06:22 pm
Quote
I didn't attempt to make a prediction.


Because?


Quote
Btw, I don't much care for him either.[/size][size=78%] [/size][size=78%][/size]
[size=78%][/size][size=78%][/size][size=78%]Seems I've got more in common with you [/size] :eek



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 02:07:35 pm
O no, I've caught some horrible [brackets] disease off YamFazFan  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 November 2018, 02:32:22 pm

 :rollin
O no, I've caught some horrible [brackets] disease off YamFazFan  :eek


 :rollin :rollin


I'll administer a metaphorical punch up the bracket to myself ;) :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 02:37:43 pm
Please, no punch ups on municipal property  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 22 November 2018, 02:38:19 pm
Quote
I didn't attempt to make a prediction.


Because?


I suppose because I didn't think I knew who would win.

Quote
Quote
Btw, I don't much care for him either.
Seems I've got more in common with you :eek



It's possible  :)


However:



Whereas you are not answering my question at all  :)
 



i.e why do you think Farage (and therefore yourself) predicted the outcome of the EU referendum incorrectly?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 November 2018, 04:37:16 pm
Please, no punch ups on municipal property  ;)
:lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 November 2018, 06:07:35 pm
 
Quote
mtread, did you predict the result of the EU referendum correctly? A simple yes or no will do.

Can I answer this one too?  Please? :D   Can I go back to 2014? :D   Remember the 2014 referendum. :)


I stayed up all night for the 2014 one.  Sure I wanted a YES result, and everybody around me thought it was in the bag but I knew it was very unlikely.   And yup early on during the night the clues started coming that all was not well.  I figured anything above 40% was a result, a victory in fact and something to take forwards.  So whilst I was disappointed, and surrounded by folks who appeared to want to top themselves, I was also pleasantly surprised by 45%, almost half the country felt the way I did.  I still think it was a stunning result.  Was a strange night.


2016?  The polls said it was safe.  But I have to say I had a bad feeling in the closing days of the campaign.  Didn’t stay up.  But I do remember again having that bad feeling as I stood in the kitchen in front of the radio, pausing, slightly scared to turn it on.  Then foc foc foc foc foc!


At least there was something positive to take from 2014. 



If the current situation is not resolved, and Scotland does not maintain continued single market access, the Scottish parliament has the justification to hold a second Indy referendum.  There is a potential majority in the parliament to do this, with or without Westminster’s permission.


But which is more import.  Binning BREXIT and continued full EU membership comes before Independence.  I do not want to see the UK economy trashed. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 22 November 2018, 06:17:48 pm
Quote
mtread, did you predict the result of the EU referendum correctly? A simple yes or no will do.

Can I answer this one too?  Please? :D   Can I go back to 2014? :D   Remember the 2014 referendum. :)


I stayed up all night for the 2014 one.  Sure I wanted a YES result, and everybody around me thought it was in the bag but I knew it was very unlikely.   And yup early on during the night the clues started coming that all was not well.  I figured anything above 40% was a result, a victory in fact and something to take forwards.  So whilst I was disappointed, and surrounded by folks who appeared to want to top themselves, I was also pleasantly surprised by 45%, almost half the country felt the way I did.  I still think it was a stunning result.  Was a strange night.


2016?  The polls said it was safe.  But I have to say I had a bad feeling in the closing days of the campaign.  Didn’t stay up.  But I do remember again having that bad feeling as I stood in the kitchen in front of the radio, pausing, slightly scared to turn it on.  Then foc foc foc foc foc!
Its all well and good predicting things on the night whilst watching the results come in, but I correctly predicted the EU vote result 2 years before it actually happened. And even before a vote was even announced.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 22 November 2018, 06:22:33 pm
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=311541259664825&id=406437063156178
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 November 2018, 06:37:58 pm
 
Quote
Its all well and good predicting things on the night whilst watching the results come in, but I correctly predicted the EU vote result 2 years before it actually happened. And even before a vote was even announced.
Well OK, 2014, I knew from the start it was very unlikely.  I did not expect a win.  Like I say, to me, 45% felt like something of a victory, a well earnt result.


2016.  It should have been OK.  But I always had a bad feeling.   If you like, my brain was telling me that there was nothing to worry about, but I had this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach
 
Calling it on the night before the first results come in is what counts.  Campaigns are hugely important. 



Some polls had us down at 25% in 2014.  Some in Better Together couldn't wait to get out there and start their campaign - they talked of ‘mopping up the wounded’ and consigning talk of Scottish Independence to history.  With 4 weeks to go they were shitting themselves and almost lost it.


2016, and the mainstream political players ran a similar campaign to what they ran in 2014 in Scotland.  Fear, fear, fear and more fear. They had learned nothing from 2014, and this time they lost it.


The two things that really bothered me about 2016 was the shit REMAIN campaign.  A crap campaign whilst LEAVE was left to peddle their fantasy.  At least a fantasy is positive.  That and Corbyn’s 7/10 = I mean for Focs sake. 



So you can guess 2 years out, but you can’t call it.  So yeah your guess was correct Fazersharp.

 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 22 November 2018, 06:44:48 pm
that'll be the "shit" remain campaign the gov spent millions on of our money to send a leaflet to every house to tell us to stay then mate  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 November 2018, 06:52:34 pm
Quote
that'll be the "shit" remain campaign the gov spent millions on of our money to send a leaflet to every house to tell us to stay then mate  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

Yup. :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 22 November 2018, 07:00:01 pm
I honestly think that helped the "leave" vote mate, as most of us don't like being told what to do by politicians (or indeed pop stars and American presidents)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 November 2018, 07:39:01 pm
 I honestly think that helped the "leave" vote mate, as most of us don't like being told what to do by politicians (or indeed pop stars and American presidents)
 
Precisely.  Absolutely totally agree.   Make your campaign positive, and don’t tell people what to do.


I still personally feel there are questions to be answered in relation to the LEAVE campaign.  The definition of a lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive.  An intentional untruth.  Their whole camapign was a lie.


But aside from that this was a campaign, on the part of REMAIN, that they should not have lost.  And they didn’t loose it, they just fucking threw it away. 



At this point I feel the need to go back over to “What Gets My Goat!”      AAAAAAAAAAAGH.


Still seriously, it might not happen, and it may even be almost impossible.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 07:40:25 pm
Quote
that'll be the "shit" remain campaign the gov spent millions on of our money to send a leaflet to every house to tell us to stay then mate 

Unlike one of the Leave campaigns, which illegally spent money of course
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 22 November 2018, 07:44:28 pm
tbh it wasn't tax payers money, so hey ho. I didn't pay income tax for Cameron to spend it on a campaign I didn't want or ask for. That put a lot o peoples (mine included) backs up straightaway. if they had spent it on a balanced argument, perhaps they wouldn't have lost
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 07:44:36 pm
Quote
Whereas you are not answering my question at all   
 



i.e why do you think Farage (and therefore yourself) predicted the outcome of the EU referendum incorrectly?

You can't answer a question with another question.
My question (still unanswered by anybody) is what do you think is going to happen next?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 07:48:56 pm
Quote
tbh it wasn't tax payers money, so hey ho.
Well Arron Banks won't even tell us where the £8 million came from. Strong suggestion is that it came from the Russian Government. Which is of course illegal. But that's OK then?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 22 November 2018, 07:52:50 pm
im not one for condemning on "strong suggestions". So, yes :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 08:32:15 pm
Quote
At this point I feel the need to go back over to “What Gets My Goat!”      AAAAAAAAAAAGH.
Me too. I'm getting bored with this.
As the Big Yin says 'there'll never be peace, while they're still pissing in our Bovril, and we're still shitting in their shoes'
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 22 November 2018, 08:34:58 pm
Quote
Whereas you are not answering my question at all   
 



i.e why do you think Farage (and therefore yourself) predicted the outcome of the EU referendum incorrectly?

You can't answer a question with another question.
My question (still unanswered by anybody) is what do you think is going to happen next?

Italeave and Czech-out will happen next
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 November 2018, 09:00:34 pm
Quote
Me too. I'm getting bored with this.


Thing is, if we don’t wise up and bin it…………


What the BREXITEERS don’t realise (the ring leaders do) is that this will go on for years.  It will probably take at least ten years to complete BREXIT.  And we have at least 3 years of trying to get a permanent position in place, and if we fail we get stuck with May’s deal, that is if she can actually get it through parliament and the Spanish don’t veto it.


So, and as you already know mtread, if we are all already bored with it, we need to all understand this is just the first two years of many many years.


And at the end of the day – it’s all about the Tory party.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 22 November 2018, 09:23:51 pm

shall we leave it now fellers?
I think weve all had enough... ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 22 November 2018, 09:26:52 pm
Yes, let's bury it.......After I've offloaded this.... :lol


My brother and Dad have both bought properties in the Romanian mountains.  The local Romanians they have met have nothing but contempt for the EU.
Since they joined everything has gone up in price affecting everyone.
Their way of life is being affected by EU bullshit and red tape so they say.
The country may well be getting a hand out but it doesn't filter down to the bottom of the food chain.


I agree with Fazersharp, us leaving will unsettle the EU as other nations will follow suit.
This is why(and it's so foccing obvious) that they are making it as difficult as possible for us to leave.
I've seen first hand how our standard of living has been eroded by cheap labour.
I've seen groups of Eastern Europeans sleeping in a camper vans outside a building site.
No bills to pay, family to support(over here at least) rent or mortgage to fork out.
No wonder they can undercut our daily rates.
One was telling me how, for €50 000 he'd built his own home in Romania.
I say home but it was more like a mansion.
When he told me what the square meterage was it was roughly 4 of my brothers house......And gardens !
This was just the building.
Don't pay tax, set up limited companies, never in one place for too long or even in the country to get nailed by the taxman.
Monies all going back home.
This is the reality, this is why I have my opinion.
Obviously, other people have different experiences leading to different opinions.
I'm just fed up with the bullshit, I'm being forced to get rid of a perfectly good car and buy  an ULEZ compliant car when the technology is there to produce any type of fuel from the atmosphere which emits no pollutants.
It's all about money and control and if the Earth stopped spinning, I'd opt to get off.  :D



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 22 November 2018, 09:40:49 pm

shall we leave it now fellers?
I think weve all had enough... ;)


Sorry ogri, we'll all stop forcing you to look at this thread now  :lol


If you want me out of it, that's simple. MONEY!  :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 22 November 2018, 09:55:53 pm

 :lol :lol :lol :lol
ive gone back to rowing with the old ball and chain, at least I get make up sex after that.,
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 November 2018, 10:13:03 pm

Well Arron Banks won't even tell us where the £8 million came from.


Have a little patience. The NCA investigation is ongoing. Don't know when they're expected to conclude, but until then we just don't know do we. I don't for sure.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 22 November 2018, 11:04:46 pm
Here is a prediction worth remembering.  :lol

  

If we are out of the EU within 2 years, or even close, I'll buy everybody a pint :-)


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 22 November 2018, 11:30:50 pm

You can't answer a question with another question.

I did answer your question. I said I didn't attempt to predict the outcome of the EU referendum. Answered your question about why I didn't, too.
Quote
My question (still unanswered by anybody) is what do you think is going to happen next?


Oh, that question. No idea.


Right, now we've got that out of the way, why do you think Farage got his prediction (and therefore you got yours) wrong?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 November 2018, 11:36:27 pm
Here is a prediction worth remembering.  :lol

  
If we are out of the EU within 2 years, or even close, I'll buy everybody a pint :-)
It looks like we're all going thirsty then :\ . To be fair that prediction wasn't inaccurate was it?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 November 2018, 11:40:01 pm
Quote
If we are out of the EU within 2 years, or even close, I'll buy everybody a pint :-)
Blimey, did I say that?  :) How long did it take you to dig that one out :)
Well it depends what we mean by 'out'. Looking at the 26 pages of waffle May released this afternoon it could mean anything.


I mean, a pint. That's nearly an armful  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 22 November 2018, 11:48:56 pm
Quote
If we are out of the EU within 2 years, or even close, I'll buy everybody a pint :-)
Blimey, did I say that?  :) How long did it take you to dig that one out :)
Well it depends what we mean by 'out'. Looking at the 26 pages of waffle May released this afternoon it could mean anything.


I mean, a pint. That's nearly an armful  ;)
FINE - I will have a waffle with my pint please
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 22 November 2018, 11:50:12 pm
Quote
Blimey, did I say that?  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url]) How long did it take you to dig that one out ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

 I came across it when I was looking for my earliest CORRECT prediction of the brexit result, which I did in Oct 2014. But your pint promise was in 2016 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 November 2018, 12:06:15 am
July 2016 in fact, which is fortunately more than 2 years ago  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 November 2018, 12:06:40 am
But your pint promise was in 2016
Yes and 'within 2 years, or even close' has passed since then hasn't it?. So the prediction is accurate.

I'm still 'Leave' by the way, but I'm a stickler for these type of things :lol
...sorry 'within 2 years, or even close'. Same thing....well not the same thing...'within' isn't over is it :lol

...corrected the first sentance now, ignore the last correction :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 November 2018, 12:19:18 am
But your pint promise was in 2016
Yes and 'within 2 years, or even close' has passed since then hasn't it?. So the prediction is accurate.

I'm still 'Leave' by the way, but I'm a stickler for these type of things :lol
...sorry 'within 2 years, or even close'. Same thing....well not the same thing...'within' isn't over is it :lol

...corrected the first sentance now, ignore the last correction :lol
 
So am I getting my pint or not  :crazy
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 November 2018, 12:23:54 am
Didn't I make it clear?. The answers no :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 November 2018, 06:10:03 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA on 20 November 2018, 06:19:08 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg287505.html#msg287505[/url])<blockquote>
What I don’t see sense in is our wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.  What I don’t see sense in is funding Islamic fundamentalists around the world just as wee have done in Syria.  What I don’t see sense in is selling arms to sick Wahhabist nutters in Saudia Arbaia who not only use them to kill civilans in Yemen but happen to think nothing of murdering guests to their foreign consulates.

</blockquote>I don't think many will disagree with you there. But all of that happened when we were IN the EU. So by wanting to stay in the EU you are voting for more of the same. 

It was our parliament that voted to go into Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.  It is our government that arms murderous Wahhabist Saudi regeime.
 You may remember the American phrase “Cheese eating surrender Monkeys”
Most EU countries had the good sense to stay well clear of our Iraq and other adventures. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 November 2018, 06:23:18 pm
 
Quote
My brother and Dad have both bought properties in the Romanian mountains.
If there is a No Deal Brexit they may have a problem there.
 
Quote
I agree with Fazersharp, us leaving will unsettle the EU as other nations will follow suit.
It is far from clear at the moment that will be leaving, never mind any other country trying.
Quote
This is why(and it's so foccing obvious) that they are making it as difficult as possible for us to leave.
The main problem for BREXIT is the Irish border.  Their member EIRE is not surprisingly insisting that the Good Friday Agreement is respected.  The EU is simpy standing up for it’s members as surely you would expect it to.
Quote
I've seen groups of Eastern Europeans sleeping in a camper vans outside a building site.
I would agree that it has been a big mistake to allow succession countries full freedom of movement across the EU.  It was the UK’s choice not to restrict movement.
But I think we are also dealing with dodgy builders here.  Who is employing these people?  Are they following EU and UK employment laws.  I somewhat doubt it.
Quote
I'm being forced to get rid of a perfectly good car and buy  an ULEZ compliant car
ULEZ is local legislation.  It is not EU legislation.  I agree it’s targets those who can least afford to pay, but it is not EU policy.
Quote
when the technology is there to produce any type of fuel from the atmosphere which emits no pollutants.
I suspect you’d still need to buy a new motor. ;)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 23 November 2018, 07:07:39 pm
I know full well the ULEZ is nothing to do with the EU VNA. I mentioned it as just another gripe I've got with today's hack offs.
As for buying a new motor to run this fuel. Not according to this man.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb_8DJF6Hp0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb_8DJF6Hp0)


As for employers following employment law. Surely you're joking, aren't you?
These people are self employed, hence not paying their fair share of tax and contributions through outlawed unbrella companies and the likes.
There was a massive plasterboard factory opened up near me a few years ago....KNAUF I think it is.
Do you know that vacancies were advertised abroad both in Europe and Eastern Europe before they were available in our local job centre.
How the fuck is this right ?
As for my Dad and Brother. What they going to do, take away their homes, refuse them entry and move the bulldozers in ?
 :rollin :rollin
This brings me back to my clip of the ITalian job.....WE can all play that game and to be honest if you honestly believe that'll happen you really have no business calling us Brexiteers gullible.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 November 2018, 07:35:47 pm
 Not come across that before Carbon Engineering fuel before Dazza.
It does sound interesting.
Though it takes a lot of energy to produce – electricity.
And when he talks of carbon storage – I’m far from convinced CO2 storage could ever work.  Though that's an optional extra.

There’s an article here - https://www.nationalgeographic.com.au/science/this-gasoline-is-made-of-carbon-sucked-from-the-air.aspx (https://www.nationalgeographic.com.au/science/this-gasoline-is-made-of-carbon-sucked-from-the-air.aspx)
It’s certainly interesting. 



One thing is for sure we are fast running out of time to stop climate change.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 23 November 2018, 09:55:19 pm
One thing is for sure we are fast running out of time to stop climate change.


Well, that's one thing it's got in common with a BREXIT deal.


Why we aren't jumping on this technology, only the authors of the Barcelona declaration knows. Anything to take away the hold Saudi Arabia has got over us has only got to be a positive thing for all our futures.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 November 2018, 09:14:20 pm
 
Quote
Why we aren't jumping on this technology, only the authors of the Barcelona declaration knows. Anything to take away the hold Saudi Arabia has got over us has only got to be a positive thing for all our futures.

I think such technology may be part of the solution.  One issue is how much energy does it actually take to make a gallon of fuel.  And the problem with the internal combustion engine is that it is extremely inefficient.  So I suspect the electric car will be the better long term solution, but of course infrastructure for electric cars is still pretty dire – whilst petrol stations are plentiful.


I also suspect that using this technology to reduce Co2 levels in the atmosphere – ie carbon capture – will probably remain pie in the sky. 



But meanwhile BREXIT;

Spain is now onboard.   The EU is now set to agree May’s BREXIT deal.  The deal is now set.


However, the DUP has come out and stated that they will reject the deal and vote against it.
It ain’t over till the fat lady sings, but I think it’s fair to say that May cannot get her deal through parliament.
So the question is where to now.  And bearing in mind that NO DEAL is not an option.  NO DEAL is more or less off the table.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 24 November 2018, 09:48:48 pm
Pedro Sánchez was just grand standing and paying to his domestic audience.

And I wonder how many people realise that Spain has its own "Gibralter" almost exactly the same -Ceuta (any one heard it this) its 18 miles across the sea from gibralter and is in North Africa in  Morocco who lays its own claim to it and want it back but Spain has no intention of giving it up.A case of the Spanish tomato calling the English Strawberry red, something like that.Our negotiators should just tell Spain to vamos or say "cough - Ceuta" and watch them callate.   
  
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 November 2018, 10:54:35 pm
Can't help thinking that an obvious solution is for the EU to offer an emendment to our membership.Something they maybe should have offered when Cameron originally came to them.Some restrictions on freedom of movement within our current membership might be enougth to satifie enougth people to bury BREXIT.
As of course we are at risk of being stuck in never ending BREXIT negotiations.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 November 2018, 01:04:07 pm
Why does Theresa May have to let parliament vote on her deal?. Why should Corbyn's bunch of opportunists be allowed to sink it just so that they can get one step closer to a general election.
Surely we should be asked whether or not to accept either May's Brexit deal or a no deal Brexit?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 01:30:50 pm
 
Quote
Why does Theresa May have to let parliament vote on her deal?
It’s because the UK is a parliamentary democracy.  All legislation has to be approved by parliament.  May has tried to by-pass parliament but the supreme court ruled against her.
Quote
Why should Corbyn's bunch of opportunists be allowed to sink it just so that they can get one step closer to a general election.
You mean the official opposition.  The Labour party can’t get a general election.  If there was a vote of no confidence in the government, the DUP would either vote with the Tory party or sit on the fence.  Either way Labour cannot call a general election.
 
Quote
Surely we should be asked whether or not to accept either May's Brexit deal or a no deal Brexit?.
Parliament will not accept, will not allow a no deal BREXIT.  The new saying is that any deal is better than No Deal.
As parliament is essentially log jammed, a second referendum is a possible way forward.  However, the question would be;


Do you wish to accept the governments terms for BREXIT.
Or
Do you wish to remain in the EU.


 
Bear in mind that May’s deal leaves the UK in essentially the same position as Turkey.  They have a customs agreement but they have no say in EU trading law, standards or legislation.


To sum up;


Nobody but a handful of BREXITEER nutters at Westminster think a No Deal BREXIT is a good idea.  So it is not going to happen.
You will struggle to find anybody who will state that May’s deal is a better deal than the deal we already have.
The best option is to remain.


It May now be a matter of whether the British public are willing to press the self-destruct button for a second time and reduce our standing in the world to that of Turkey.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 November 2018, 01:55:11 pm
Here are some snippets from Mays open letter - sounds good to me - sounds like what I was expecting to receive when I voted leave.

 
We will take back control of our borders, by putting an end to the free movement of people once and for all."Instead of an immigration system based on where a person comes from, we will build one based on the skills and talents a person has to offer.
"We will take back control of our money, by putting an end to vast annual payments to the EU.


In future, our laws will be made, interpreted and enforced by our own courts and legislatures.
We will be out of EU programmes that do not work in our interests: out of the Common Agricultural Policy that has failed our farmers, and out of the Common Fisheries Policy that has failed our coastal communities.
Instead, we will be able to design a system of agricultural support that works for us, and we will be an independent coastal state once again, with full control over our waters.


EU citizens who have built their lives in the United Kingdom will have their rights protected, as will UK citizens living elsewhere in the EU.
"A free trade area will allow goods to flow easily across our borders, protecting the many skilled jobs right across the country that rely on integrated supply-chains.
"Because our European friends will always be our allies in the fight against terrorism and organised crime, the deal will ensure that security co-operation will continue, so we can keep our people safe.
Outside the EU, we will be able to sign new trade deals with other countries and open up new markets in the fastest-growing economies around the world.











Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 November 2018, 03:53:52 pm
So labour + Tory rebels vote down 'May's Deal' Brexit...
Then Labour + Tory rebels from the other camp vote down a 'No Deal' Brexit...
Then we have another referendum and it's the same result. Another Leave win...
And the whole thing goes round and round ad infinitum....
Parliament should just listen to their constituants and vote out >: .


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 04:02:27 pm
Quote
Here are some snippets from Mays open letter - sounds good to me - sounds like what I was expecting to receive when I voted leave.
We will take back control of our money, by putting an end to vast annual payments to the EU.
We already have control of our money.  We vetoed the Euro.  Meanwhile we need to pay 35 billion to begin to leave.


Quote
In future, our laws will be made, interpreted and enforced by our own courts and legislatures.
Every piece of EU legislation has been negotiated and approved by the UK.  Never at any time during our membership have we lost sovereignty.  But we will now.  Under this deal we have to continue to comply with the customs unions rules whilst having to say whatsoever in any changes to them.


As far as I am aware May’s agreement allows us to leave the Common Agricultural Policy and the Common Fisheries Policy, but the reality is that negotiations to do so will only take place once May’s deal is in place.  Remember this is an interim deal.


Quote
Outside the EU, we will be able to sign new trade deals with other countries and open up new markets in the fastest-growing economies around the world.


Not whilst we are still on the customs union we won’t.  You might get there by 2022 if you are lucky. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 November 2018, 04:02:35 pm
Quote
Why should Corbyn's bunch of opportunists be allowed to sink it just so that they can get one step closer to a general election.
You mean the official opposition. 
Yeah that's them :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 04:07:12 pm
 YamFazYam, I think you would be lucky to get three dozen MP’s to vote for a No Deal BREXIT.  A no deal BREXIT would literally bring the UK economy to a grinding halt.


So therefore you will never be offered a say on NO DEAL.  Pretty much everybody is agreed now that NO DEAL is not an option.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 November 2018, 05:50:09 pm
So when parliament rejects May's deal we have another referendum. If the result is again Leave we have to go through it all again and again until we vote 'Remain' and parliament votes that through.
Great >: . That's democracy in action >: .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 25 November 2018, 05:54:23 pm
Here are some snippets from Mays open letter - sounds good to me - sounds like what I was expecting to receive when I voted leave.

 
We will take back control of our borders, by putting an end to the free movement of people once and for all."Instead of an immigration system based on where a person comes from, we will build one based on the skills and talents a person has to offer.
"We will take back control of our money, by putting an end to vast annual payments to the EU.


In future, our laws will be made, interpreted and enforced by our own courts and legislatures.
We will be out of EU programmes that do not work in our interests: out of the Common Agricultural Policy that has failed our farmers, and out of the Common Fisheries Policy that has failed our coastal communities.
Instead, we will be able to design a system of agricultural support that works for us, and we will be an independent coastal state once again, with full control over our waters.


EU citizens who have built their lives in the United Kingdom will have their rights protected, as will UK citizens living elsewhere in the EU.
"A free trade area will allow goods to flow easily across our borders, protecting the many skilled jobs right across the country that rely on integrated supply-chains.
"Because our European friends will always be our allies in the fight against terrorism and organised crime, the deal will ensure that security co-operation will continue, so we can keep our people safe.
Outside the EU, we will be able to sign new trade deals with other countries and open up new markets in the fastest-growing economies around the world.


OOOh, yes please  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 06:32:21 pm
 
Quote
So when parliament rejects May's deal we have another referendum. If the result is again Leave we have to go through it all again and again until we vote 'Remain' and parliament votes that through.
 Great ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url]):" title="mad" class="smiley" width="16" height="16">. That's democracy in action ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url]):" title="mad" class="smiley" width="16" height="16">.

 
No that will not happen.
It possible that parliament will approve May’s deal (the transitional deal) but right now it seems unlikely.
It’s difficult to say what happens from there.


There could be further negotiation, though the EU appears to be saying very firmly that that will not be an option.


Again, pretty much everybody agrees that NO DEAL is not an option.  The EU won’t that say that right now, but the reality is though it wouldn’t hurt them anything as much as it would hurt us, they simply don’t want to go there either. 



A general election is possible but again seems very unlikely – I just can’t see it all.  Nor do I see it solving anything.  Plus the march BREXIT date would have to be suspended.  And if Labour win it is still highly unlikely the EU would enter into further negotiation.


If parliament can’t decide then a referendum is an option.   But how many times do I have to say it – NO DEAL IS NOT AN OPTION – you will be offered May’s interim deal or continued full EU membership (which all the experts agree is the best deal we can get) 
Further second referendum would have to be legally binding.  It will be final.


And don’t forget even if somehow May’s deal goes through, you are looking at many years of negotiation before you truly achieve BREXIT. 
And at the end of the day the UK can never fully leave the EU because Northern Ireland must remain as part of the single market.


The truth is BREXIT never was possible and never will be possible.  Or it is only possible with a United Ireland and an Independent Scotland.
In other words a true BREXIT would mean the end of the United Kingdom and Great Britain. 



So achieve BREXIT you need to first shoot yourself in the left foot, then do the right before finally shooting yourself point blank in the heid.
But hey, lets see what happens.  And maybe one day our government can stop doing BREXIT and return to running the country.


So what's it all about?  It's about the Tory party.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 November 2018, 06:52:41 pm
Further second referendum would have to be legally binding.  It will be final.

Does that mean it wouldn't have to go to Parliament to be voted on as this current deal is going to be?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 07:28:49 pm
 The current deal is nothing more than an interim agreement that facilitates the beginning of negotiating a final settled agreement. 
Dominic Raab has said of the deal that he negotiated – “Well, I’m not going to advocate staying in the EU but if you just presented me terms, this deal or EU membership – we’d effectively be bound by the same rules without a control or voice over them – yes, I think this would be even worse than that”
Dominic Raab has resigned over the deal he negotiated.  That’s spectacular.
We are now on our third BREXIT secretary.
Quote
Does that mean it wouldn't have to go to Parliament to be voted on as this current deal is going to be?.
YES! 
The 2014 Independence referendum was a legally binding referendum.  Scotland voted NO so nothing happened.  But if the result was YES we would have been legally bound by the result and Scotland would by now have become an Independent nation. 
The 2016 EU referendum was a consultative referendum.  In effect the government was asking the people their position.  The result was leave.  Parliament then voted to trigger article 50.  As far as I am concerned Labour lost its bottle.  Parliament was under no legal obligation to trigger article 50.
That allowed a date to be set and a deal to be negotiated.
As we are a representative democracy, our representatives, whom we have elected to represent us, must now vote on the deal.  The supreme court has overruled May’s attempts to by pass this stage.
You cannot expect your representatives to vote through something which is clearly not in the interests of their constituents or the country as a whole.  And everybody agrees this is a shit deal.
So one possible way forward is a second referendum.  It would be May’s deal or ditch BREXIT.   Parliament will never accept NO DEAL.
Making it legally binding, would mean it has to be acted on.
In effect you are passing the parliamentary vote to the people.
It would then be up to the people to decide if they really wish to force their elected representatives to embark on mission impossible. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 25 November 2018, 07:38:39 pm
[size=0px]You cannot expect your representatives to vote through something which is clearly not in the interests of their constituents or the country as a whole.[/size]


[/size][size=0px]Thats what politicians do. All the time. Now i know youre just a wind up merchant
[/size][size=0px]

[/size]
[/size]
[/size]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 07:46:12 pm
 What I don’t get is what do people want from BREXIT.


OK so an end to freedom of movement and alternative arrangement to the common fisheries policy.
Irrespective of whether one agrees with these aims or not they are understandable. I get it.

 
Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.  We never lost sovereignty by joining the EU. 
The EU imposing law on us is a myth.


However, under May’s deal we now loose sovereignty.  The 27 EU countries can amend the customs union and we will have no say.  They can adjust CE standards etc and we have no say.  And so on and so on.
We have no say and no veto.
And we can never get out of it because of the NI backstop which is binding.


I genuinely do not understand why anybody would want to do this.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 November 2018, 07:47:45 pm
Quote
Does that mean it wouldn't have to go to Parliament to be voted on as this current deal is going to be?.
YES! 
:lol

So one possible way forward is a second referendum.  It would be May’s deal or ditch BREXIT.   Parliament will never accept NO DEAL.
Making it legally binding, would mean it has to be acted on.
In effect you are passing the parliamentary vote to the people.
It would then be up to the people to decide if they really wish to force their elected representatives to embark on mission impossible. 

But if the result of that second leagally binding referendum was 'Remain' (ditch Brexit), then surely the electorate who voted Leave in the first one will be going bonkers?!. They'll be blaming Parliament for robbing them of their victory won't they?.
Surely no government would ever risk such a thing.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 November 2018, 07:58:29 pm
Just heard a replay of Mar talking to Blair and Mar said that Jo cox was killed as a result of Brexit  :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek Really !
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 November 2018, 08:01:17 pm
What I don’t get is what do people want from BREXIT.
OK so an end to freedom of movement and alternative arrangement to the common fisheries policy.
Irrespective of whether one agrees with these aims or not they are understandable. I get it.

FINALLY  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 08:04:28 pm
 
Quote
But if the result of that second leagally binding referendum was 'Remain' (ditch Brexit), then surely the electorate who voted Leave in the first one will be going bonkers?!. They'll be blaming Parliament for robbing them of their victory won't they?.
 Surely no government would ever risk such a thing.


 
So the argument is that the people who voted for LEAVE can now see the deal.  When we voted in 2016 nobody had any idea of what BREXIT would look like.  The truth is we still have no idea, and in fact it’s clear that it may not be possible at all.


So parliament could now go to the people and ask them – this is what it looks like – what do you want us to do?
They'll be blaming Parliament for robbing them of their victory won't they?.
I would hope not.  But maybe.  And anyway they will be the same people who have been blaming the EU for the actions of successive UK governments that they have elected. 



Remember this was never offered to the people for the good of the people.  And if I can quote Agricola;
Quote
That’s what politicians do. All the time.
Or rather it’s what Tory politicians are prepared to do to win an election.  They gambled the future health of the UK economy on an election.  Remember Tories exist for no other reason than to rule.


Agricola – at the end of the day – we elect them.  Wait for it…………………………………


We’ll get the government we deserve. :lol
And we might even get the BREXIT we deserve too. :eek
 

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 08:05:42 pm
Quote
FINALLY  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url])
No I've always got that.
But is that it?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 November 2018, 08:10:23 pm
I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens next with the vote in parliament. I suppose the whips are out for this vote are they?. I don't agree with that. It's a joke. Makes a mockery of democracy.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 November 2018, 08:11:11 pm
Quote
Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us. 
The EU imposing law on us is a myth.The 27 EU countries can amend the customs union and we will have no say. 
What is a Myth is that we actually really have any say in the EU. If we did then Camoron would of ben able to get us some concessions and there would of been no need for Brexit.But instead the EU treated him and the British people with an arrogant contempt.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 08:12:59 pm
Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 November 2018, 08:16:05 pm
Quote
There could be further negotiation, though the EU appears to be saying very firmly that that will not be an option.
Well they would say that wouldn't they - its called negotiating 


Quote
Again, pretty much everybody agrees that NO DEAL is not an option.  The EU won’t that say that right now, but the reality is though it wouldn’t hurt them anything as much as it would hurt us, they simply don’t want to go there either. 
Er I think not getting their 39 billion under a no deal might make them wince a little 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 November 2018, 08:21:47 pm
Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.
You really believe that.
Im sure Grease also negotiated, im sure Italy is negotiating how to be told they must re do their budget. 
Negotiated  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 25 November 2018, 08:24:25 pm
Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.
Would love to see the evidence of this statement.
It's a fact that the EU has "imposed" over 52000 laws on us since 1990
Yep, you're definitely on a wind up
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 November 2018, 08:31:01 pm
They call it 'Qualified Majority Voting' don't they?.
Ie: the UK can vote against something, but still be forced to implement it because it was out voted by the other member states.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 November 2018, 08:42:22 pm
Quote
Im sure Grease also negotiated,
Don't think Olivia Newton John could do much negotiating in those tight trousers  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 November 2018, 08:49:08 pm

In other words a true BREXIT would mean the end of the United Kingdom and Great Britain. 
 
Why do you present that as a dooms day Armageddon to make an anti Brexit point and yet that is EXACTLY what you want to happen with your quest for scottish independence.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 09:06:04 pm
 
Quote
They call it 'Qualified Majority Voting' don't they?.
 Ie: the UK can vote against something, but still be forced to implement it because it was out voted by the other member states.


 
The EU operates on the principle of consensus, it makes every effort to keep every country on board with every piece of legislation.
Minor issues can be voted on after negotiation by 'Qualified Majority Voting. 
The UK can veto any legislation if it can get three other countries on board.
On key major decisions the UK can alone VETO legislation.


https://fullfact.org/europe/british-influence-eu-council-ministers/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/british-influence-eu-council-ministers/)






 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 10:10:45 pm
Quote
Why do you present that as a dooms day Armageddon to make an anti Brexit point and yet that is EXACTLY what you want to happen with your quest for scottish independence.   
The priority has to be full single market membership. 



Look I voted for Independence?  Why?


Because I have never voted Tory in my life.  My country hasn’t voted Tory since the 50’s  And the Tory party of the 50’s is not the Tory party we have today.  The Tory party has steadily moved to the right over many decades.


So, Scotland doesn’t vote Tory and Scotland voted decisively to remain in the EU.  In fact, only half the countries that make up the UK voted to leave.


The Scottish parliament will continue to seek and obtain powers, and some sort of settled position will eventually be reached.  That may be full Independence or eventual fiscal autonomy.


Many of us in Scotland want the government we deserve – the governments we vote for, not government imposed on us by another country.


I’m not a rose tinted, or some sort of patriotic nationalist, it’s simply a matter of building the country and the future that we vote for.  England and Scotland sadly continue to grow apart.  That’s a shame but it’s just a fact of life.


We want our country to be the best it can be.  But nor do we want to see our most important trading partner shoot itself in both feet then blow it’s heid clean aff.  How would that be good for our economy?


There are some in Scotland who see BREXIT as an opportunity for Independence.  There are some in the governing party the SNP who also think the same.  We have our equivalents of Boris, Moog, IDS, Redwood etc, but like in England they are a minority. 



So the priority in Scotland is economic, not trashing our economy and future wealth in the hope, and it is only a hope, of independence growing from the smoking remains.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 10:19:23 pm
 
Quote
It's a fact that the EU has "imposed" over 52000 laws on us since 1990

Really!? :rolleyes
So what are these objectional laws and how do they negatively impact on us?
 
You know I sometimes wonder if the real problem is that England has never got over the loss of it’s empire.  English people are still dreaming of the days they ruled the world.  Consensus, compromise and co-operation are maybe just not the English way. :pokefun


The EU is 28 countries, with numerous languages, 28 sovereign governments, 28 legal systems,  - all trading freely and unrestricted within a single market.  It is quite an achievement. :)


Inevitably that means bureaucracy, however it is nothing like the unsurmountable bureaucracy involved in trying to trade with 28 separate markets. :(
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 November 2018, 10:24:13 pm
If the UK has such power and influence as you say over it's law making within the EU, then it won't make any difference if we come out will it :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 25 November 2018, 10:28:44 pm
1. Google it
2. Google it
3. Google it
4. Google it
5. Google it
6. Google it
7. Google it
8. Google it
9. Google it
10. Google it
I could do this 52000 or more times but would be simpler if you googled it like I did. :D
And nowhere did I say they're all objectionable and negatively impact us.
That's you adding your own slant to it to suit your agenda.
You may add the poking fun symbol but you really come across as having a problem the the English.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 November 2018, 10:46:28 pm
 
Quote
You may add the poking fun symbol but you really come across as having a problem the the English.

No, not at all.  I do have a problem with English politics.  It’s simple – you guys get the governments you deserve :lol – I want that opportunity too. :D
Or perhaps English folks don’t like Independent minded Scots;


Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,May by thy mighty aid,Victory bring.May he sedition hush,and like a torrent rush,Rebellious Scots to crush,God save the King.  :pokefun
 
My whole voting life has been under Tory governments.  And before you say New Labour, well it was just Maggie’s biggest achievement.
 
Quote
I could do this 52000 or more times but would be simpler if you googled it like I did. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/02/clip_image001.gif[/url])

 And nowhere did I say they're all objectionable and negatively impact us.

OK, but you surely you don’t want to leave the EU because you love it’s rules?  So what are these objectional laws – the ones you dislike and why?
Or is this all about freedom of movement, and fishing?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 November 2018, 11:09:03 pm
It doesn't really matter, because it's becoming clearer and clearer that there won't be a 'No Deal' Brexit. So it's either 'May's Brexit' or 'No Brexit'. Either way, we'll be bound to the EU for years to come :D

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 26 November 2018, 05:15:31 am

No, not at all.  I do have a problem with English politics.  It’s simple – you guys get the governments you deserve :lol – I want that opportunity too. :D
Or perhaps English folks don’t like Independent minded Scots


Ok, you must get it then. We want to be in control of our own destiny, just like you do.
This is me having to explain things over and over.
Didn't you get my analogy of a toxic partner dictating to you....Of course you did so why are you still asking the same question about what Brexiteers want.
I've also previously explained that everyone, depending on their own experiences voted to leave for their own reasons.
You can imply that we are uneducated, thick, misinformed or racist but we voted out because of what we saw, felt and what was affecting us.
Do I give a fuck if the price of German cars go up.... No, even though I drive one. I'll buy Japenese or pay the extra. I really couldn't give two fucks.


 
OK, but you surely you don’t want to leave the EU because you love it’s rules?  So what are these objectional laws – the ones you dislike and why?
Or is this all about freedom of movement, and fishing?
And if you for one moment think I'm going to trawl through 52741 laws that the EU has imposed on us since 1990 you been drinking too much of that Scottish whiskey. :lol


It's quite plain and simple, and I can only speak for myself.... The EU is undemocratic, we didn't vote them in, we can't vote them out...... That, right there is the main reason I voted to leave.


My Great Grandad served in world war 1 and was wounded by machine gun in the leg. Luckily he survived.
My Grandad served in World war 2 in the desert under Monty. He never spoke about it right up to the day he died.
I'm not going to go into detail about my service because it's not important.


I don't believe in God but If I ever met up with them again after this life is over, I want to look them in the eye, knowing I didn't just vote to hand power over to the very nation they fought against for us.
There are many of us Englishmen who feel the same and will never change our minds.


I've served with Scots, proud Scots, good men, solid men. Men who were not only proud of being Scottish but we're also proud of being British.
I know this, you don't represent all Scottish.
I bet the fishermen would see you as  a Judas.


The best thing for all is that you just accept.... We had the vote, it didn't go your way, that's it,deal with it and move on.
Get behind it and let's all make the most of any opportunities that come from it.
Stop being the voice of doom and gloom.
You wanted an independent Scotland... I don't blame you but that didn't go your way either........
It's all starting to make sense now why you cant let it go...... Don't hate us, don't hate English politics, it's all corrupt, it's all a load of bollocks. We all know that and we know there's nothing we can do about it.
We all just make the best of what we've got.
What we don't want or need is the EU thinking they know best for us too.... Because they don't,they don't give a fuck either.... Look at all the riots going on in France at the moment.
All up in arms over taxation.
The influx of Moslem men sexually assaulting German women... How do you think that's going end.
Europe is a pressure cooker waiting to explode, surely you can see that.
I'm out of this thread now, it's obvious where I stand and why.
You just need to accept you didn't get the result you wanted.
If it had gone the other way, I for one would've just accepted and got on with it.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 26 November 2018, 07:16:16 am

Perhaps the English should be given a referendum so we could become an independent country again. Scotland would not need another one then they would be on their own.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 November 2018, 10:11:54 am

When there's been a referendum on the matter (Leave EU), the MP's should respect the majority view of the voters within their constituency area and vote accordingly as a formality. Why should one person make out they know better than the thousands who voted otherwise?.


I can see this whole thing ending up reversed and us being locked into the EU forever.


I'm never voting ever again in any election/referendum if that happens.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 November 2018, 05:26:04 pm

...yep it's started. All they're talking about on the radio now is having another referendum after they've wrecked May's deal and getting the Leave result reversed :wall
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 November 2018, 05:58:59 pm
Quote
VNA;     

OK, but you surely you don’t want to leave the EU because you love it’s rules?  So what are these objectional laws – the ones you dislike and why?

Quote
Dazza;
 And if you for one moment think I'm going to trawl through 52741 laws that the EU has imposed on us since 1990 you been drinking too much of that Scottish whiskey. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])
 
 
 It's quite plain and simple, and I can only speak for myself.... The EU is undemocratic, we didn't vote them in, we can't vote them out...... That, right there is the main reason I voted to leave.
 
 
 My Great Grandad served in world war 1 and was wounded by machine gun in the leg. Luckily he survived.
 My Grandad served in World war 2 in the desert under Monty. He never spoke about it right up to the day he died.
 I'm not going to go into detail about my service because it's not important.
 
 
 I don't believe in God but If I ever met up with them again after this life is over, I want to look them in the eye, knowing I didn't just vote to hand power over to the very nation they fought against for us.
 There are many of us Englishmen who feel the same and will never change our minds.
 
 
 I've served with Scots, proud Scots, good men, solid men. Men who were not only proud of being Scottish but we're also proud of being British.
 I know this, you don't represent all Scottish.
 I bet the fishermen would see you as  a Judas.
 
 
 The best thing for all is that you just accept.... We had the vote, it didn't go your way, that's it,deal with it and move on.
 Get behind it and let's all make the most of any opportunities that come from it.
 Stop being the voice of doom and gloom.
 You wanted an independent Scotland... I don't blame you but that didn't go your way either........
 It's all starting to make sense now why you cant let it go...... Don't hate us, don't hate English politics, it's all corrupt, it's all a load of bollocks. We all know that and we know there's nothing we can do about it.
 We all just make the best of what we've got.
 What we don't want or need is the EU thinking they know best for us too.... Because they don't,they don't give a fuck either.... Look at all the riots going on in France at the moment.
 All up in arms over taxation.
 The influx of Moslem men sexually assaulting German women... How do you think that's going end.
 Europe is a pressure cooker waiting to explode, surely you can see that.
 I'm out of this thread now, it's obvious where I stand and why.
 You just need to accept you didn't get the result you wanted.
 If it had gone the other way, I for one would've just accepted and got on with it.

Sae thas naw, ye didnae ken?  Thought so.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 November 2018, 06:18:10 pm
 
Quote
When there's been a referendum on the matter (Leave EU), the MP's should respect the majority view of the voters within their constituency area and vote accordingly as a formality. Why should one person make out they know better than the thousands who voted otherwise?.

We’ve been over that.  It was a consultative referendum.  Nobody had a clue what BREXIT would mean in reality.  We now have a proposed deal.  MP’s do not have to accept any old deal that is put before them.
 
Quote
I'm never voting ever again in any election/referendum if that happens.
Good.  More power to my vote. :D
 
Look the reality is as full members of the EU we are part of process.  We have a say in everything the EU does.  We are part of the democratic process.  Any piece of legislation can be voted down by 3 member states objecting in agreement.  And on major decisions we have a veto.  Under the EU we are a sovereign state.


This interim deal keeps us in the customs union allowing us free trade with the EU for the duration of the transition.  But it takes us out of any negotiations relating to the running of the single market and customs union, and obviously we loose our veto.  We will no longer be a sovereign state as long as we remain under May’s deal.  And of course for the pleasure of loosing our sovereignty we pay 35 billion quid :eek


We will remain locked into the customs union for ever and a day until we come up with a solution to the Irish border.  To date nobody has come up with a workable solution.  So not only do we have no say in the running of the customs union but the EU will hold us locked into it.  Hence we will no longer be a sovereign state.


Quote
I bet the fishermen would see you as  a Judas.
I think that is how many see the Prime Minister Dazza.  We will continue to abide by the common fisheries policy until such time as we can negotiate a new policy.  That is a new policy that the EU will accept.  It will ultimately be their decision not ours.


Same goes for everything else.  This is an interim deal to facilitate the real BREXIT negotiations. 



So are there any positives?  Well yes one – that is if, if, if, parliament ultimate sings this off.  Once we realise our mistake, and that is that we are no longer a sovereign nation and we are stuck in a temporary position indefinitely – we will be able to re-negotiate full membership in order to regain our sovereignty.  However our terms will have to be acceptable to the 27 existing members.



We will never achieve the deal we currently have.  May's deal is shite.






 


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 26 November 2018, 09:05:22 pm
Ok lets have another referendum but the questions HAVE to include a No Deal exit as well as May's deal or stay.I voted to leave - I didn't vote for a deal - I didn't vote to give the EU 39 billion, none of that was on the ballot paper.And there should be NO debates in the run up from either side about the the pros and cons and lies and projects of fear or buses or gov printed pamphlets. It should be based on what we have learnt over the past 18 months and witnessed.

 If a no deal leave is on the ballot paper that is what most people will vote for - my prediction. We leave - the EU does not pass go they do not collect 39Billion. We then negotiate the bits we want how ever long the politicians want to take pissing about doing it, but we do it from a position of out and holding all the cash.

 By the way has anyone seen an itemised bill from the EU for the 39 billion.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 November 2018, 09:39:34 pm
Quote
Ok lets have another referendum but the questions HAVE to include a No Deal exit as well as May's deal or stay.I voted to leave - I didn't vote for a deal - I didn't vote to give the EU 39 billion, none of that was on the ballot paper.And there should be NO debates in the run up from either side about the the pros and cons and lies and projects of fear or buses or gov printed pamphlets. It should be based on what we have learnt over the past 18 months and witnessed.If a no deal leave is on the ballot paper that is what most people will vote for - my prediction. We leave - the EU does not pass go they do not collect 39Billion. We then negotiate the bits we want how ever long the politicians want to take pissing about doing it, but we do it from a position of out and holding all the cash.
Has anyone seen an itemised bill from the EU for the 39 billion.
I partially agree with you.  Nobody knew what BREXIT would actually mean at the time of the referendum (though please remember the referendum is actually about the Tory party).  Now we do.  Or rather we know what the interim deal is.


As for NO DEAL, I do not think parliament would ever put that to the people.  It’s not an option.  The BREXITEERS will eventually have to accept that.


Quote
And there should be NO debates in the run up from either side about the the pros and cons and lies and projects of fear or buses or gov printed pamphlets.
You can’t do that.  It would be undemocratic.  Illegal in fact.



Quote
Has anyone seen an itemised bill from the EU for the 39 billion.
It is simply to fulfil our contractual obligations.  Remember we are fully paid up members who are in fact tearing up our contract and getting divorced.  So we have already approved and committed to expenditure, projects etc etc  before June 2016. 



And if you NO DEAL – our credit rating will be effected.  If you NO DEAL and don’t pay, our credit rating will be trashed and our reputation around the globe damaged.  Sadly we have no choice but to pay.


To be honest, we just have to sit back and see what happens at this point.  I don’t think May’s deal will be voted through parliament (I could of course be wrong) and if it does indeed not pass, well it’s just a guessing game as to what happens next.  A second referendum is just one of a number of possible options.  This is a very serious UK political crises now. 



Seriously as for NO DEAL.  It’s just not going to happen.  No idea what the bookies are offering on that, if they will even offer odds on it.  I really do genuinely think it’s that low a possibility. 



To get that you would have to elect the fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists – ie UKIP – whom I get the feeling barely exists now. :eek :) :lol   
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 26 November 2018, 10:31:53 pm
To get that you would have to elect the closet racists – ie UKIP – 
 
Whilst we are on the subject the remainers had the audacity to point at Mogs crew and call them Dads Army - all old WHITE men. Have they not seen the main Brussels bureaucrats all old WHITE men giving out their demands for quotas on migrants that countries must take, where is the diversity in the EU high command where are all the women and people of colour. I would hazard a guess that there are more people of colour in UKIP than in the corridors of Brussels.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 November 2018, 10:39:09 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA on Today at 09:39:34 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg287926.html#msg287926[/url])To get that you would have to elect the closet racists – ie UKIP – 



Whoa,

Selective quoting is OK, but that's actually altering what I said. 

Focs sake don't forget the fruitcakes and loonies.
Quote
Have they not seen the main Brussels bureaucrats all old WHITE men giving out their demands for quotas on migrants that countries must take, where is the diversity in the EU high command where are all the women and people of colour.

The answer is - we elected them. :lol


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 November 2018, 10:57:56 pm
What we're getting now (and not just on here) is a lot of Brexiteers moaning (Bremoaning?) because they are not going to get the particular version of Brexit they wanted - to just walk away immediately, pay nothing, expect the world to come beating at our door. They assume that everybody who voted Leave wanted exactly the same as them, when clearly that wasn't the case. Many wanted an EFTA /EEA type deal 'just like Norway and Switzerland who are doing so well'. But now No Deal Brexiteers try to hijack the 52% majority vote.


Well the good news is it's not going to happen. As VNA says we don't know what's next, but that's not it.


Then of course there's the current criminal investigation of Arron Banks and the indication of illegal foreign funding. They're not going to let him off the hook.


At least all of the 48% Remainers agreed fully on what they were voting for and what they were going to get as a result.


So I'm feeling more confident by the day. This is going only in one direction.


Bollocks To Brexit  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 November 2018, 07:47:38 am

I don't remember there being any talk about deals when the referendum took place, just Remain or Leave. I assumed we'd just hand in our membership card so to speak and come right out :rolleyes .


I agree, it does appear to be only going in one direction. That's the bit that worries me.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 November 2018, 09:34:56 am
Quote
Brexiteers moaning (Bremoaning?)
That's rubbish it doesn't work. Bregret was a good one and worked when the remainers were trying to create a narrative that a lot of brexiteers now regret voting leave, funny that one did not catch on and they have given up on that tact. 
 
At least all of the 48% Remainers agreed fully on what they were voting for and what they were going to get as a result.

I don't think that is correct as there was a lot who did not like the EU as it was but thought that they could change the EU to their liking from within. The leavers voted leave because they knew dam well that aint going to happen. Camoron proved that when he went to the EU with his begging bowl --- they just spat in it and threw him in the Channel.These are the kind of people in charge of the EU project.I would be quite happy to go back to how it all started - as a group of trading nations, without an EU army, EU laws,integrated tax and VAT. Thank the British people that Blair/Brown dare not put forward a referendum on joining the euro cause they knew how that would end.     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 November 2018, 10:01:11 am
If you have free seamless trade in a single market, then you have to have harmonised taxation including VAT. And O yes, I do know what I'm talking about  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 November 2018, 10:31:32 am
Quote
Brexiteers moaning (Bremoaning?)

That's rubbish it doesn't work.
OK 'Brexshiteers' then. That one stuck, if you excuse the pun  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 November 2018, 10:50:54 am
If you have free seamless trade in a single market, then you have to have harmonised taxation including VAT. And O yes, I do know what I'm talking about  :D
I never realised that the UK had to introduce VAT in order to join and I also did not realise that 18% all that VAT we raise goes to the EU.
Well that's even better then - leave the EU fully and every item with VAT will be 20% cheaper.
So if VAT is harmonised how come its at different rates and on different products across the EU
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 November 2018, 11:23:33 am

Mrs May has challenged Corbyn to a live TV Brexit debate prior to the Commons vote.


Probably be on the BBC with a studio audience full of Remainers that keep constantly booing/whooping so May can hardly get a word in and chaired by Victoria Derbyshire I expect :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 November 2018, 11:53:58 am
Quote
I never realised that the UK had to introduce VAT in order to join and I also did not realise that 18% all that VAT we raise goes to the EU.Well that's even better then - leave the EU fully and every item with VAT will be 20% cheaper.So if VAT is harmonised how come its at different rates and on different products across the EU

The proportion of VAT we pay over to the EU is a major part of the 'membership fee' The so called £350 million a week '. All EU states pay the same proportional contribution. Its the way of making sure' bigger 'countries pay more than the smaller ones.
As to every item being 20% cheaper, I don't think your arithmetic quite works. Perhaps you could show your workings?  ;)
All VAT in the EU is harmonised within boundaries, plus or minus certain percentages. Also what you can charge VAT on, and what you don't. EU 6th VAT directive.
It's to ensure that when you buy (say) Yamaha parts from Germany, you pay German VAT rather than have to reclaim it and pay UK VAT as an import.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 27 November 2018, 12:27:53 pm
Quote
I never realised that the UK had to introduce VAT in order to join and I also did not realise that 18% all that VAT we raise goes to the EU.Well that's even better then - leave the EU fully and every item with VAT will be 20% cheaper.So if VAT is harmonised how come its at different rates and on different products across the EU

The proportion of VAT we pay over to the EU is a major part of the 'membership fee' The so called £350 million a week '. All EU states pay the same proportional contribution. Its the way of making sure' bigger 'countries pay more than the smaller ones.
As to every item being 20% cheaper, I don't think your arithmetic quite works. Perhaps you could show your workings?  ;)
All VAT in the EU is harmonised within boundaries, plus or minus certain percentages. Also what you can charge VAT on, and what you don't. EU 6th VAT directive.
It's to ensure that when you buy (say) Yamaha parts from Germany, you pay German VAT rather than have to reclaim it and pay UK VAT as an import.



And that sounds like a load of EU fudge doesnt. Fact is, VAT membership contributions should disappear upon leaving, so the boundary harmonised plus or minus charge it on what you like reclaim or not percentage should disappera from our tax burden :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 November 2018, 06:30:27 pm
 
Quote
What we're getting now (and not just on here) is a lot of Brexiteers moaning (Bremoaning?) because they are not going to get the particular version of Brexit they wanted - to just walk away immediately, pay nothing, expect the world to come beating at our door. They assume that everybody who voted Leave wanted exactly the same as them, when clearly that wasn't the case. Many wanted an EFTA /EEA type deal 'just like Norway and Switzerland who are doing so well'. But now No Deal Brexiteers try to hijack the 52% majority vote.
 
 
 Well the good news is it's not going to happen. As VNA says we don't know what's next, but that's not it.
 
 
 Then of course there's the current criminal investigation of Arron Banks and the indication of illegal foreign funding. They're not going to let him off the hook.
 
 
 At least all of the 48% Remainers agreed fully on what they were voting for and what they were going to get as a result.
 
 
 So I'm feeling more confident by the day. This is going only in one direction.
 
 
 Bollocks To Brexit  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])

 
That’s an excellent post mtread.   :)



There is another aspect that I feel the country needs to consider moving forwards.  The official LEAVE campaign portrayed BREXIT as turning the UK into a land of milk and honey.  They made out that that EU took 350 million pounds a week from the UK and that we received nothing in return.  They further stated that we could simply leave and we would then have 350 million pounds a week more to spend on the NHS.  The whole campaign was based on lies.  The people fronting this campaign openly lied.   One definition of a lie is - a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.



If currently under our legal system there is no possibility of prosecuting those who led that campaign (eg Johnston and Gove), then the question surely needs to be asked if we should review our laws in light of the BREXIT referendum and the LEAVE campaign.


As for this only going in one direction – yes I hope so for the sake of the whole UK and the future prosperity of this Union.  However I remain somewhat concerned that the main opposition, that indeed facilitated BREXIT by voting through article 50, still seems unable to decide what their next move should be.  BREXIT should already be dead and buried, but right now, though on life support, it is still breathing.  BREXIT is still a threat to the future of the United Kingdom.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 November 2018, 06:38:07 pm
 
Quote
I never realised that the UK had to introduce VAT in order to join
Fazersharp, VAT replaced the UK’s purchase tax.  And it was definitely a step in the right direction. 


 
Mrs May has challenged Corbyn to a live TV Brexit debate prior to the Commons vote.
YamFazFan, Yes apparently “Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn have agreed to take part in a live TV debate on Brexit before MPs vote on the deal.”   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46355299 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46355299)


I presume that Northern Ireland, Wales, and Scotland will also be represented.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 November 2018, 07:15:03 pm
Quote
As to every item being 20% cheaper, I don't think your arithmetic quite works. Perhaps you could show your workings? 

Fazersharp still waiting to see your calculations, or is this just another Leave Lie?  :pokefun
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slimwilly on 27 November 2018, 07:48:58 pm
Haha,, soon we will, gave BREXIT, March,,,bring it on then we can get our act together
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 November 2018, 07:54:12 pm
Quote
As to every item being 20% cheaper, I don't think your arithmetic quite works. Perhaps you could show your workings? 

Fazersharp still waiting to see your calculations, or is this just another Leave Lie?  :pokefun

Ok everything being 18% cheaper
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 November 2018, 08:21:36 pm
No you are still misleading everybody. It isn't 18% of the price. It is (on average) 18% of the VAT collected. So that's 18% of the (maximum) 20% of the price. Which makes things at best 3.6% cheaper. Of course we then get EU subsidies.


Is that too complicated, or just another pro Brexit lie?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 November 2018, 08:54:57 pm
No you are still misleading everybody. It isn't 18% of the price. It is (on average) 18% of the VAT collected. So that's 18% of the (maximum) 20% of the price. Which makes things at best 3.6% cheaper. Of course we then get EU subsidies.

Is that too complicated, or just another pro Brexit lie?
3.6% it is then.
 You mean the EU subsidies that they kindly give us from our own money that we have already paid to them, of which they decide where it has to be spent.
And that is what the bus was saying, at the moment we send the money £250million after rebates to the EU every week £350 million Gross lets fund the NHS instead all the bus was saying is getting back control so we can spend it on what we want I seriously do not believe most brexiters took the bus slogan literally.
The remainers love to think so as they can weaponise it in their arguments. They like to think the brexiteers are so stupid that they believed every word on the bus. The whole lies were said thing has been done to death its boring- both sides were guilty of it - er surprise ! -- they were politicians. I think the British public saw through all of it.       
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 November 2018, 10:23:31 pm
Well that's another piece of Brexit misinformation corrected then :lol
Actually I'd like to see the source of your original figure, as it doesn't match what I've seen.
If we look at some real facts https://select-statistics.co.uk/blog/much-eu-cost-uk/ it shows that the UK pays into the EU less per person than most of the major EU economies. Less than Netherlands, Belgium etc, and even less than Spain and Ireland.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 November 2018, 10:39:56 pm
 
Quote
The remainers love to think so as they can weaponise it in their arguments. They like to think the brexiteers are so stupid that they believed every word on the bus. The whole lies were said thing has been done to death its boring- both sides were guilty of it - er surprise ! -- they were politicians. I think the British public saw through all of it.   
This is just meaningless waffle.  Waffle because either you are avoiding, or are in fact, unable to address the substance. 

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 November 2018, 09:34:45 am
Quote
The remainers love to think so as they can weaponise it in their arguments.
An interesting turn of phrase. I'll translate it as 'using real facts to prove a point'  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 November 2018, 09:49:04 am

Just been listening to the Nicky Campbell phone-in show on Radio 5 Live.


It's crystal clear that the majority of Remainers have absolutely no interest or respect for democracy, just an obsession with permanently overturning the referendum result by any means possible.


They should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.


It will be a very brave (stupid) government that reverses the democratic decision of over 17 million people.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 November 2018, 11:05:06 am
Quote
It will be a very brave (stupid) government that reverses the democratic decision of over 17 million people.
Except presumably, with another referendum?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 November 2018, 11:19:52 am
Quote
It will be a very brave (stupid) government that reverses the democratic decision of over 17 million people.
Except presumably, with another referendum?
I say bring it on - lets do it all again but there must be a no deal - revert to WTO rules as an option.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 November 2018, 11:29:31 am
I'd be happy with that.


If May's deal is rejected, which it probably will be, then a referendum should be Remain as is /Leave No Deal WTO.


With the public now informed, the result should be binding.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 28 November 2018, 12:16:27 pm
Let it be as binding as the remainers want the last one to be. Or better still let just book the third Tuesday every June for an IN/OUT of the EU referendum till we get a 100% majority either way.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 November 2018, 12:20:28 pm

No second referendum. We voted LEAVE.


If there's a vote it should be a choice between May's Deal or No Deal.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 November 2018, 12:50:52 pm

I say bring it on - lets do it all again


We don't have to keep on proving that we can win.


Remain are hoping that through voter fatigue etc...they can scrape even a 1% majority and declare the matter settled forever.


They won't be calling for a best of three in that case you can rest assured of that. Same as if they'd won the first one, they wouldn't in a million years have agreed to a second.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 November 2018, 01:58:05 pm

No second referendum. We voted LEAVE.
If there's a vote it should be a choice between May's Deal or No Deal.

If we don't include the stay option - then when the vote is won to leave with no deal they will never give up..

Vote vote and more votes I think we should have them all the time and for everything. Forget smart meters and instead fit every home with a voting console, we can then do away with the house of commons and the lords and turn them both into hotels.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 November 2018, 04:44:10 pm

No second referendum. We voted LEAVE.
If there's a vote it should be a choice between May's Deal or No Deal.

If we don't include the stay option - then when the vote is won to leave with no deal they will never give up..
If the vote is won to leave with no deal in that scenario. What if it's not and they win it by the same margin that Leave won the first one?.All of a sudden it'll be a 'convincing victory' and we'll stuck in that rotten to the core institution forever.
Even if Leave won again they'll never 'give up'. They're like the worshippers of some discredited cult religion.

No we've had the referendum. Leave won. It's over. There should be no talk of another, only how we leave.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 November 2018, 05:38:50 pm
Quote
No second referendum. We voted LEAVE.
If there's a vote it should be a choice between May's Deal or No Deal.
Fazersharp, So clearly you accept that people didn’t really know what BREXIT was when they voted for it.
 
Quote
No we've had the referendum. Leave won. It's over. There should be no talk of another, only how we leave.

You just do not get it YamFazYam.  It may not be possible.  Right now it looks like parliament will vote down May’s deal.  If May survives that, and I think she will, she will come back for a another go, she will then exert the maximum possible pressure on the house to vote it through.  Call it project fear for Westminster – and she will pull all the stops out.  If that then fails, well we have a full-blown parliamentary crisis. 
The question is how you get out of that.
And I would suggest to you, for all the talk at the moment of NO DEAL – perhaps you should forget it.  May’s deal might get through, but parliament in the event of a looming NO DEAL will act and stop it.
And remember May’s deal means we give up our sovereignty and enter into an agreement in which we accept rules will be imposed on us by others, and further there is no way out of it without the agreement of the EU.






 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 November 2018, 05:47:48 pm
Quote
No second referendum. We voted LEAVE.
If there's a vote it should be a choice between May's Deal or No Deal.
Fazersharp, So clearly you accept that people didn’t really know what BREXIT was when they voted for it.
 
Not me that one -wrong quote - come back later when you have had a wee -dram or 2.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 November 2018, 06:52:55 pm
Fazersharp, sorry bud :o
I'm quoting you quoting YamFazFan but addressing yourself :o
Doh Doh Doh! :o
Sorry.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 28 November 2018, 07:53:49 pm
So the EU is a black hole, sucking us in ever further, from which we can never escape, no matter what the consequences for the nation

I dont swallow that. Sure, things might be tough, but weve had tough before. In my lifetime, weve rebuilt our nation, without any help from those quitters in europe, who are an ungrateful bunch of milksops, who'll be banging on our door with their hands up again when the red army comes rolling across the plains

Just sayin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 November 2018, 08:48:21 pm
Quote
So the EU is a black hole, sucking us in ever further, from which we can never escape, no matter what the consequences for the nation
In a word NO!
 Every expert analysis demonstrates that we will be poorer under May’s deal, and considerably poorer again under a NO DEAL scenario.
 
In other words we benefit greatly from our full membership of the EU.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 November 2018, 08:52:33 pm
There's more to life than just money.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 28 November 2018, 09:29:11 pm
Quote
So the EU is a black hole, sucking us in ever further, from which we can never escape, no matter what the consequences for the nation
In a word NO!
 Every expert analysis demonstrates that we will be poorer under May’s deal, and considerably poorer again under a NO DEAL scenario.
 
In other words we benefit greatly from our full membership of the EU


Thats easy to say
Prior to EU membership, i never had to pay 20% tax on anything i bought
Prior to EU membership, we had a steel industry, fishing industry, agricultural industry, textile industry, footwear industry.
Prior to EU membership, if I wanted to change my job, I simply walked out of one on a Friday, and into another on the following Monday.
Prior to EU membership, food shopping meant a short walk to the town main street to buy fresh food products grown/reared within spitting distance, not from the other side of the world in refrigerated container ships.
Water, energy and transport were all under national control, with forward planning, and serving the public that owned them
If I wanted, I could walk into my doctors surgery and get to see the doc the same day
As a general rule, I could buy anything from the local high street
Harmonisation of working time directives meant that my employer could change my terms and conditions at a moments notice without my agreement, increase my hours, force me to work weekend shifts including nights at no extra pay
There was a place in the local school for every child in that catchment area
The streets were swept on a weekly basis
Petrol didn't rot my cars fuel system
Criminals were sent jail
The nation wasn't full of people addicted to online bingo#
24 hour drinking wasn't needed, you could get enough before they shut at 1030
The streets weren't covered in fast food packaging, vomit, drug paraphernalia, dog shit, homeless people
British people were tough in the face of adversity
I could walk home from the pub without fear of being battered into the A&E dept on my LOCAL hospital and spending 3 days on a trolley
My girlfriend could walk home from the pub without fear of being stalked and or molested bu someone who was living here illegally


I'm stopping here


So tell me again, how I'm better off in the EU
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 28 November 2018, 10:29:15 pm
Funny how all these predictions of the UK being this much or that much worse off have suddenly hit the headlines today. BofE for instance. And this would be the same BofE that didn't predict the 2008 financial crash?  :rolleyes
Governments own figures project for 15 years. So I guess in 1993, they should have been able to predict the 2008 financial crash too?  :rolleyes


In 15 years, I wonder if there'll even be an EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 November 2018, 10:38:36 pm
 
Quote
Prior to EU membership, i never had to pay 20% tax on anything i bought
That’s incorrect, as I’ve pointed out before VAT replaced the purchase tax in the UK.
Quote
So tell me again, how I'm better off in the EU
Agricola you continue to blame the EU for the policies of successive UK governments, and it appears local councils too. :eek
You were given a ball to kick, and like many others you kicked it hard.  But I’m afraid you’ve kicked the wrong ball.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 November 2018, 10:51:35 pm

I presume that Northern Ireland, Wales, and Scotland will also be represented.


And also a prominent 'Leave' conservative as both Theresa May and Corbyn were Remainers at the time of the referendum.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 November 2018, 11:11:02 pm
Quote
Funny how all these predictions of the UK being this much or that much worse off have suddenly hit the headlines today. BofE for instance. And this would be the same BofE that didn't predict the 2008 financial crash?  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url])
Governments own figures project for 15 years. So I guess in 1993, they should have been able to predict the 2008 financial crash too?  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url])

 Err no.  These are financial forecasts not predictions. 
There is nothing new here.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 November 2018, 11:16:55 pm
Quote
And also a prominent 'Leave' conservative as both Theresa May and Corbyn were Remainers at the time of the referendum.
Boy.  That’s quite a thought.  The Prime Minister and the leader of the opposition from within her party perhaps?
The idea of such a farce sums up nicely where we find ourselves as a result of the 2016 referendum.
Perhaps it should be broadcast all across Europe so they can all wet themselves watching Great Britain make a rip roaring James Hunt of itself.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 November 2018, 11:41:04 pm
I suggest Jacob Rees-mogg. A well balanced debate would be good :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 November 2018, 11:43:01 pm
Aye, well, it is after all about the Tory party.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 November 2018, 11:46:44 pm
Just to make one thing clear, VAT is not an EU invention. It existed before the EU, and many Non-EU countries have also adopted VAT systems. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 November 2018, 11:54:15 pm
Quote
I suggest Jacob Rees-mogg. A well balanced debate would be good ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

Yeah lets just make it a Tory debate.
The live TV Tory BREXIT debate.
Theresa May, Great Britain’s Prime Minister representing her deal, the only deal – May’s BREXIT.
For a NO DEAL BREXIT I give you multi-millionaire, hedge fund manager Jacob Rees-mogg.
For ditch article 50 and REMAIN in the EU, I give you lead No Deal BREXITEER’s Boris Johnston’s brother Jo Johnston.
Roll up roll up.  Come and watch the Tory party tear itself apart.  Roll up roll up come and see the great English fools.   Roll up roll up - lets all laugth at Great Britain. :lol 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 November 2018, 12:12:29 am
Apparently the Liberal Party (12 MP's) and the Green Party (1 MP) wish to be included in the debate.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 November 2018, 09:35:34 am
Or we could have the (failed 7 times) non MP bore Farage  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 29 November 2018, 09:53:11 am
Quote
Prior to EU membership, i never had to pay 20% tax on anything i bought
That’s incorrect, as I’ve pointed out before VAT replaced the purchase tax in the UK.
Quote
So tell me again, how I'm better off in the EU
Agricola you continue to blame the EU for the policies of successive UK governments, and it appears local councils too. :eek
You were given a ball to kick, and like many others you kicked it hard.  But I’m afraid you’ve kicked the wrong ball.


So tell me how Im better off in the EU then
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 29 November 2018, 09:57:38 am
Two items from our local news bulletins this morning. Vernon Coker MP, pleading in parliament for the govt to act on the nationwide scourge of violent (knife and gun attacks) crime, and the erection of anti terrorist barriers around the streets of the city to prevent terrorists ramming cars into pedestrians. We never had either of those before the EU
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 November 2018, 10:17:14 am

Or we could have the (failed 7 times) non MP bore Farage  :lol


I've always liked Nigel Farage. He speaks a lot of sense, but I doubt he'll make it onto the panel.


If it's on Channel four or the BBC I expect it'll comprise of about 7 prominant Remainers and Mrs May.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 November 2018, 10:19:29 am
Quote
We never had either of those before the EU
Are you just making this stuff up  :rolleyes
We never had 'Strictly Come Dancing' before the EU either.......
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 November 2018, 10:22:06 am
Quote
If it's on Channel four or the BBC I expect it'll comprise of about 7 prominant Remainers and Mrs May.
But that's 8 prominent Remainers  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 November 2018, 10:53:16 am
 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 29 November 2018, 12:37:28 pm
Quote
We never had either of those before the EU
Are you just making this stuff up  :rolleyes
We never had 'Strictly Come Dancing' before the EU either.......


Sadly not
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 November 2018, 01:37:51 pm
Just to make one thing clear, VAT is not an EU invention. It existed before the EU, and many Non-EU countries have also adopted VAT systems. 
Google tells me this.

  Was VAT introduced by the EU?
  VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 November 2018, 01:52:23 pm
Funny how all these predictions of the UK being this much or that much worse off have suddenly hit the headlines today. BofE for instance. And this would be the same BofE that didn't predict the 2008 financial crash?  :rolleyes
Governments own figures project for 15 years. So I guess in 1993, they should have been able to predict the 2008 financial crash too?  :rolleyes
In 15 years, I wonder if there'll even be an EU.
What they don't realise is that it doesn't matter because those who voted leave either didnt believe the project fear and even if they did they don't care and see it as a risk or price worth paying in the long run.   
 That is I think one of the problems with a lot of remainers - all they are worried about is their own pocket. Useless Carney with his failed forward guidance proves he knows nothing. He says house prices will fall - well that's great isn't it so people can get on the housing ladder, this house price scaremongering is clearly aimed at the older generation who have houses and just so happened to be the most leave voters. Interest rate have to rise anyway regardless of any brexit. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 November 2018, 01:54:37 pm
Or we could have the (failed 7 times) non MP bore Farage  :lol
Look at some utube of Sir Nigel Farage in action in the European parliament, and the way they treat him is pretty much how they feel about the UK. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 November 2018, 01:59:18 pm
That's when he's at his brilliant best ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 November 2018, 02:02:42 pm


We never had 'Strictly Come Dancing' before the EU either.......


Sadly not




What, sadly we didn't have Strictly then?!. I'd say opinion is equally divided on that subject too :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 November 2018, 06:27:04 pm
 
Quote
What they don't realise is that it doesn't matter because those who voted leave either didnt believe the project fear and even if they did they don't care and see it as a risk or price worth paying in the long run.   


They may yet not believe it, but it’s already happening.  The UK has the third slowest year on year GDP growth in the EU.  And the pound has slumped 14% against the Euro since the BREXIT vote.  Standard and Poor have downgraded our credit rating.  This is just basically just at the thought of BREXIT.


And if BREXITEERS don’t care about money, well what was the 350-million-pound bus about?


So where do the BREXITEERS think the money from for the NHS is going to come from with a NO DEAL BREXIT throwing us into a recession way deeper than even the financial crises of 2008?




 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: john roche on 29 November 2018, 06:29:21 pm
If there's a no deal Brexit other countries will know we're desperate for trade deals. They hold all the cards and we'll just have to accept what's on offer





Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 29 November 2018, 06:56:02 pm

the bottom line is those of us who voted to leave got shafted.
if the country and the government had held their nerve and got a good deal, it would have been fine.
but you have to hand it to the remainers (including Teresa may), they played a blinder.
Make such a piss poor jo of it all that we either come out worse or have another referendum which obviously will now go the way of remain, given that we know no one in power will fight for what we actually wanted. Add in weve been humiliated by the EU, and had two years of being slated for our racism/xenophobia/stupidity etc and its a remainers victory over democracy.
and you know what? mttreadand vna are right. I was stupid. For ever believing there was a chance the powers that be would see it through properly. oh well hey.
I for one will never vote again, nor care whos in power both here and amongst our EU overlords.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 November 2018, 07:34:35 pm
Quote
Quote from: mtread on 28 November 2018, 11:46:44 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg288050.html#msg288050[/url])[/size]Just to make one thing clear, VAT is not an EU invention. It existed before the EU, and many Non-EU countries have also adopted VAT systems. 


Google tells me this.  Was VAT introduced by the EU?  VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the European Economic Community. All countries joining the EEC had to replace their indirect taxes with the VAT.

I think you'll find that fits with what I said, except I didn't have to Google it  ;)
Yes all EU states have to have a VAT, and it has to be within a set of limits. That's to ensure frictionless trade between member states. As I said before, that's why it's easy to buy Yamaha parts from Germany.
The VAT method is acknowledged as an efficient (believe it or not) way of taxing consumption. It's used all over the world, including countries like Mongolia. As far as I'm aware they are not in the EU....
If anybody says that by leaving the EU we will be cancelling VAT, they are talking bollocks.
VAT accounts for nearly a fifth of all UK government revenues. Far more than Purchase Tax ever did. If we didn't have VAT, the tax would be collected in some other way. Or they could just go on cutting the NHS, Police, Defense etc etc
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 November 2018, 07:40:40 pm
Quote
Or we could have the (failed 7 times) non MP bore Farage   


Look at some utube of Sir Nigel Farage in action in the European parliament, and the way they treat him is pretty much how they feel about the UK.
Farage hardly ever turns up. He has one of the worst attendance records (Google it) ;)
When he is there, it's just to grandstand for the cameras and to get on YouTube.
Yet Europe (we) still pays the useless lump.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 November 2018, 07:48:52 pm
 
Quote
the bottom line is those of us who voted to leave got shafted.
 if the country and the government had held their nerve and got a good deal, it would have been fine.
 but you have to hand it to the remainers (including Teresa may), they played a blinder.
 Make such a piss poor jo of it all that we either come out worse or have another referendum which obviously will now go the way of remain, given that we know no one in power will fight for what we actually wanted. Add in weve been humiliated by the EU, and had two years of being slated for our racism/xenophobia/stupidity etc and its a remainers victory over democracy.
 and you know what? mttreadand vna are right. I was stupid. For ever believing there was a chance the powers that be would see it through properly. oh well hey.
 I for one will never vote again, nor care whos in power both here and amongst our EU overlords.

Naw Ogri.  You were unwittingly voting to be shafted.


The EU currently represents 25% of global GDP.  And guess what it is right on our door step.  Further it is one single free trading market.  Currently as full members we have full unrestricted access to that market.


What BREXIT aims to do is to make it harder, more difficult and also more expensive to access that massive market.


Trade deals are about countries moving closer together in order to increase trade by making the flow of goods easier and simpler.


BREXIT is the opposite of a normal trade deal.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 November 2018, 07:58:44 pm
Quote
. Useless Carney with his failed forward guidance proves he knows nothing
You mean Mark Carney who graduated from Harvard with a degree with high honours in economics, before postgraduate studies at Oxford where he received masters and doctoral degrees. Then of course Goldman Sachs and the Bank of Canada before his current job.
Where are the Leave 'experts'  coming up with convincing forecasts and figures? I certainly haven't seen any. Although I do believe Farage has a handful of O levels.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 November 2018, 09:17:07 pm

the bottom line is those of us who voted to leave got shafted.
if the country and the government had held their nerve and got a good deal, it would have been fine.
but you have to hand it to the remainers (including Teresa may), they played a blinder.
Make such a piss poor jo of it all that we either come out worse or have another referendum which obviously will now go the way of remain, given that we know no one in power will fight for what we actually wanted. Add in weve been humiliated by the EU, and had two years of being slated for our racism/xenophobia/stupidity etc and its a remainers victory over democracy.
and you know what? mttreadand vna are right. I was stupid. For ever believing there was a chance the powers that be would see it through properly. oh well hey.
I for one will never vote again, nor care whos in power both here and amongst our EU overlords.
Keep your chin up. I had a little wobble a couple of weeks ago, but I got over it thank goodness. Although in my defence I had imbibed a few too many light ales at the time ;) .
I admit the situation doesn't look good, but it's not all over yet, as much as they'd like it to be.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 November 2018, 09:40:57 pm
VNA you must be so conflicted because on one hand you are using brexit as a leverage tool to back up your fight for scotish independence, so if we brexit you can carry on using the "England dragging scotland out of the EU" chestnut. Yet you are backing remain and if you win that one then you put yourself one more step away from scottish independence.   
No wonder you are Virtually Nearly always Angry.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 November 2018, 09:41:09 pm
Quote
Keep your chin up. I had a little wobble a couple of weeks ago, but I got over it thank goodness. Although in my defence I had imbibed a few too many light ales at the time ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url]) .
I admit the situation doesn't look good, but it's not all over yet, as much as they'd like it to be.

 Indeed the situation looks pretty grim.  Though there is a possibility of the UK returning to service as normal, and therefore continuing it’s frictionless free trade with the biggest single free market in the world, the threat of BREXIT still looms.


May’s deal means the UK will no longer be a sovereign state, and growth and the performance of our economy will be slower than as a full EU member.


A NO DEAL, will in effect be worse than the 2008 financial crash and subsequent recession of which we are only just now putting being us.
We’ve already had one lost economic decade, a NO DEAL could easily lead to three lost decades. 
With the pound crashing you could potentially see the cost of motorcycle such as Yamaha’s MT10, £9999.00 before the BREXT referendum, easily end up costing 14 or 15K.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 November 2018, 09:47:54 pm
Fazersharp, sorry bud :o
I'm quoting you quoting YamFazFan but addressing yourself :o
Doh Doh Doh! :o
Sorry.

That's alright I understand. I know that after a day managing the lairds estate that you cant wait to come home to your croft to a wee dram and a log fire and rip into the forum.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 November 2018, 09:49:24 pm
With the pound crashing you could potentially see the cost of motorcycle such as Yamaha’s MT10, £9999.00 before the BREXT referendum, easily end up costing 14 or 15K.
I don't want an MT10. I want to buy a big two-stroke like we had in the good old days 8) .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 November 2018, 09:49:53 pm
Quote
VNA you must be so conflicted because on one hand you are using brexit as a leverage tool to back up your fight for scotish independence, so if we brexit you can carry on using the "England dragging scotland out of the EU" chestnut. Yet you are backing remain and if you win that one then you put yourself one more step away from scottish independence.   
No wonder you are Virtually Nearly always Angry.
Fazersharp,

 The priority is to REMAIN in the EU.  If there is a second referendum, I will be voting to tear up article 50.  Sadly, yes this will solve the current sore of major material change, and means that it will be very difficult indeed for Scotland to continue to insist on a second Scottish Independence Referendum at this time.


As a famous former American president once said – It’s the economy stupid.


Quote
No wonder you are Virtually Nearly always Angry.
Please if you wish to address me in full, it’s Very Nasty Andy :evil   I abbreviated it when the forum moved from YUKU to it’s current host.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 November 2018, 10:04:41 pm
Believe it or not YamFazFan actually stands for...YouAintMakingFolkAveZestForAnotherrefereNdum ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 29 November 2018, 11:24:09 pm
Quote
. Useless Carney with his failed forward guidance proves he knows nothing
You mean Mark Carney who graduated from Harvard with a degree with high honours in economics, before postgraduate studies at Oxford where he received masters and doctoral degrees. Then of course Goldman Sachs and the Bank of Canada before his current job.
Where are the Leave 'experts'  coming up with convincing forecasts and figures?


Pfft. The world has lost count of how many times he has u-turned on his forecasts.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 November 2018, 12:39:12 am
So........ where's the Leave experts and their forecasts then?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 November 2018, 10:09:22 am

Why would Leave need to be making any forecasts?. They won the referendum and we should be getting on with honouring that.


I can fully understand why Remain are engaging in 'Project Fear #2'. They're desperate to stop Brexit and overturn the democratic result because it didn't go their way.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 30 November 2018, 12:36:36 pm
So........ where's the Leave experts and their forecasts then?



Forecasts and predictions are for Remainers who have nothing better to do. Leavers just want to get out and get on with running our country.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 30 November 2018, 01:26:00 pm
Mark Carn-do-maths has quietly shelved his "forward guidance" briefs.Here is a list of words used by Carn-do and his side kicks in his news conference.
 Probability
Possibility
Likely
Assumption
Balance
Suggest
Forecast
Potential
Deviation
Dynamic
Could
Path
Scenario
Differing
Judge
Case study
Concrete
Think
Eventual
Adjustment
Leverage
Determination
adjustment
Path

All you have to do to be an economist is to always use these words - preferably all of them and you can talk for 30 mins without actually saying anything at all. Its like listening to a charlatan clairvoyant asking vague questions until they hit on something.  I have zero respect for economists especially when the BBC interview that convicted jailed fraudster Viki. 


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 November 2018, 01:54:52 pm
He's got a doctorate in Economics for christsake. They don't dish those out for nothing.


There are no Leave forecasts because they know the results are very bad. Either that or they have trouble with 2+2. So they just criticise to deflect the truth.


Here's part of Carney's entry from Wikipedia. I suppose that's all lies too?  :b



''The epoch-making feature of his tenure as Governor of the Bank of Canada remains the decision to cut the overnight rate by 50 basis points in March 2008, only one month after his appointment. While the European Central Bank delivered a rate increase in July 2008, Carney anticipated the leveraged-loan crisis would trigger global contagion. When policy rates in Canada hit the effective lower-bound, the central bank combatted the crisis with the non-standard monetary tool: "conditional commitment" in April 2009 to hold the policy rate for at least one year, in a boost to domestic credit conditions and market confidence. Output and employment began to recover from mid-2009, in part thanks to monetary stimulus. The Canadian economy outperformed those of its G7 peers during the crisis, and Canada was the first G7 nation to have both its GDP and employment recover to pre-crisis level''

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 30 November 2018, 02:12:02 pm
Sounds just like when Gordon Brown took all the credit for the boom times.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 30 November 2018, 02:24:16 pm

There are no Leave forecasts because they know the results are very bad. Either that or they have trouble with 2+2. So they just criticise to deflect the truth.

If you listen to his news conference this week he doesn't say anything good or bad, the words I have posted are all from that conference, and- just like all economist speak they are  careful so they never say anything definite - just like a clairvoyant bulshitting giving vague responses that can cover everything.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 30 November 2018, 02:34:01 pm
He's got a doctorate in Economics for christsake. They don't dish those out for nothing.


There are no Leave forecasts because they know the results are very bad. Either that or they have trouble with 2+2. So they just criticise to deflect the truth.


Here's part of Carney's entry from Wikipedia. I suppose that's all lies too?  :b



''The epoch-making feature of his tenure as Governor of the Bank of Canada remains the decision to cut the overnight rate by 50 basis points in March 2008, only one month after his appointment. While the European Central Bank delivered a rate increase in July 2008, Carney anticipated the leveraged-loan crisis would trigger global contagion. When policy rates in Canada hit the effective lower-bound, the central bank combatted the crisis with the non-standard monetary tool: "conditional commitment" in April 2009 to hold the policy rate for at least one year, in a boost to domestic credit conditions and market confidence. Output and employment began to recover from mid-2009, in part thanks to monetary stimulus. The Canadian economy outperformed those of its G7 peers during the crisis, and Canada was the first G7 nation to have both its GDP and employment recover to pre-crisis level''


Even a broken clock is right twice a day  ;)


His average however isn't very good. Not least his forecast of instant disaster immediately following the referendum.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 30 November 2018, 02:38:45 pm
He's got a doctorate in Economics for christsake. They don't dish those out for nothing.


There are no Leave forecasts because they know the results are very bad. Either that or they have trouble with 2+2. So they just criticise to deflect the truth.


Here's part of Carney's entry from Wikipedia. I suppose that's all lies too?  :b



''The epoch-making feature of his tenure as Governor of the Bank of Canada remains the decision to cut the overnight rate by 50 basis points in March 2008, only one month after his appointment. While the European Central Bank delivered a rate increase in July 2008, Carney anticipated the leveraged-loan crisis would trigger global contagion. When policy rates in Canada hit the effective lower-bound, the central bank combatted the crisis with the non-standard monetary tool: "conditional commitment" in April 2009 to hold the policy rate for at least one year, in a boost to domestic credit conditions and market confidence. Output and employment began to recover from mid-2009, in part thanks to monetary stimulus. The Canadian economy outperformed those of its G7 peers during the crisis, and Canada was the first G7 nation to have both its GDP and employment recover to pre-crisis level''


Even a broken clock is right twice a day  ;)


His average however isn't very good. Not least his forecast of instant disaster immediately following the referendum.
He said what he was told to just like Obama who gave the game away by saying "the UK would be back of the queue" - when an American would not say queue - they would of said "line". Scripted and written for him and not off the cuff.       
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 November 2018, 02:46:08 pm
Quote
His average however isn't very good. Not least his forecast of instant disaster immediately following the referendum.

What you mean the £ isn't at a 31 year low against the $ ! Thank goodness :rolleyes


Here's the Bank of England 's forecast he was referring to. The news is Bad, Very Bad or Crisis. Stop pretending otherwise.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 30 November 2018, 02:58:21 pm
Quote
His average however isn't very good. Not least his forecast of instant disaster immediately following the referendum.

What you mean the £ isn't at a 31 year low against the $ ! Thank goodness :rolleyes


Here's the Bank of England 's forecast he was referring to. The news is Bad, Very Bad or Crisis. Stop pretending otherwise.


And there they are all in that BBC picture, 5 of the words that I said they always use.
   Could
forecast
 think
 scenarios
 Different

 Plus one more that I did not list because they did not use it in the conference but it is one that they also always use "trend"
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 November 2018, 04:43:29 pm
But you've also missed out


Fall
Disruptive
Disorderly


Plus some lines


Still waiting for the positive Leave forecasts that suggest this is all wrong  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 30 November 2018, 05:41:19 pm



Still waiting for the positive Leave forecasts that suggest this is all wrong  :rolleyes


Forecasts and predictions are for Remainers who have nothing better to do. Leavers just want to get out and get on with running our country.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 November 2018, 06:10:30 pm
Quote
His average however isn't very good. Not least his forecast of instant disaster immediately following the referendum.
His forecast before the referendum for a LEAVE result was rougthly increased risk of a technical recession, a significant drop in the value of the pound and an increase in inflation.
So his forecast turned out to be correct.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 November 2018, 06:13:32 pm
Quote
So........ where's the Leave experts and their forecasts then?
Johnston and Gove.  They painted it on the side of a bus.  Since proven to be a lie.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 30 November 2018, 07:51:37 pm
So........ where's the Leave experts and their forecasts then?
Here's one for you to trash  :D
Fuck, was trying to stay out of this bullshit  :lol

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 November 2018, 08:02:40 pm
From the London School of economics,  http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-britain-alone-scenario-how-economists-for-brexit-defy-the-laws-of-gravity/#Author (http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-britain-alone-scenario-how-economists-for-brexit-defy-the-laws-of-gravity/#Author)

Method a la Minford
There are basically two steps in Minford’s analysis. First, he assumes that feed from EU trade protectionism, prices paid by UK consumers for manufacturing and agricultural goods would fall by 10 per cent under ‘Britain Alone’. Second, he feeds this fall in trade costs into his ‘Liverpool model’ to come up with a GDP increase of 4 per cent.
The 10 per cent number does not come from looking at the actual level of tariffs, which are only around 3 per cent. Rather, it comes from looking at the differences in guesstimated producer price levels between the UK and some other countries using data that is 14 years out of date, and arguing that these higher prices are entirely due to EU trade barriers.
This is really far-fetched. Cross-country price differences are due to a number of factors, particularly different tastes and quality. For example, say Europeans put a higher premium on high-quality clothing compared with Americans. It will look like Europeans are paying more for their clothes, but in reality, the higher average prices simply reflect a different mix of purchases (Deaton, 2014). He ends up comparing apples with a bunch of Boris Johnson shaped bananas across countries.
Minford misunderstands the nature of regulations and product standards. The idea of the Single Market is to have common rules so that a product sold in one EU country can also be sold in any other. If there are 28 different sets of rules governing the sale of a good, it will be harder to sell these products across all EU countries. Minford sees the harmonisation of regulations as a pernicious plot by vested interests to raise prices. But playing by a common set of rules is what has helped increase trade and competition in the Single Market.
It is true that tougher European standards for product safety and quality keep out some trade. For example, if after Brexit the UK reduced the levels of safety in children’s toys to those sold in the Chinese mainland, the average price of children’s toys would surely fall. But this is because the safety standards would deteriorate – quality adjusted prices would not change much. It is hard to believe that parents would welcome this kind of saving.
How Minford defies the laws of gravityTrade flows between nations increase as the economic size and average wealth of each country’s grows, and decrease with rising costs of trade between them caused by import tariffs, transport costs and other trade barriers. This is an empirical regularity called the ‘gravity’ relationship and it is the statistical bedrock of modern trade models.
Minford uses a 1970s style trade model in which all firms in an industry everywhere in the world produce the same goods and competition is perfect. There is no product differentiation – a German-made car is identical to a Chinese-made car. Importantly, trade does not follow the gravity equation – everyone simply buys from the lowest cost producer.
As a consequence, after Brexit, the UK does not care about the tariff barriers exporters face in accessing the EU Single Market as they can sell as much as they like anywhere in the world. The fact that France is closer than Fiji essentially makes no difference in the Minford world: there is just one fictional world market into which all goods can be effortlessly sold.
If this sounds crazy, that’s because it is crazy. In reality, the UK will still continue to trade extensively with the EU as our closest geographical neighbours. It’s just that the higher trade barriers mean that we will do less of it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 November 2018, 08:04:47 pm
When assesing Minford view you may wish to pay particular attention to;
Quote
Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.
As I have said all along, it's us ordinary people that will pay the price of BREXIT.  And as we have seen some already have.
BREXIT is bonkers.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 November 2018, 09:45:12 pm
Quote
Forecasts and predictions are for Remainers who have nothing better to do. Leavers just want to get out and get on with running our country.
Leavers don't do forecasts and predictions because they believe 'getting back control' means we should all pay for it with more austerity.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 30 November 2018, 10:14:27 pm


Leavers don't do forecasts and predictions because they believe 'getting back control' means we should all pay for it with more austerity.

Leavers just want to get out and get on with running our country.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 November 2018, 10:29:38 pm
Quote
Quote from: mtread on Today at 09:45:12 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg288167.html#msg288167[/url])<blockquote>
Leavers don't do forecasts and predictions because they believe 'getting back control' means we should all pay for it with more austerity.
</blockquote>
Quote from: Hedgetrimmer on Today at 12:36:36 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg288128.html#msg288128[/url])Leavers just want to get out and get on with running our country.


Quote
Quote<blockquote>Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.</blockquote>
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 November 2018, 10:34:32 pm
 There is another factor that Minford ignores.  Whilst he (wrongly LSE says) dismisses the importance of trading with your nearest partners, he ignores the increasing importance of trading with your nearest partners that an increasing awareness of global warming will bring.
 
Inevitably in the near future there will be a global move to reduce unnecessary transport and in particular the unnecessary transportation of goods.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 November 2018, 11:36:51 pm
Anyway..... There won't be a 'No Deal Brexit'. From the end of March we'll remain aligned with the EU in some deal. Taking their instructions, paying our contribution. To borrow a phrase from elsewhere, 'You've lost, get over it'  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 12:27:17 am
 I just hope that, that deal is a temporary suspension of the march deadline.  A suspension of the deadline that will allow for article 50 eventually to be revoked.


Do you really want to follow the best minority economic view of Professor Patrick Minford, who chairs and leads the Eurosceptic Economists for Free Trade who advocated a NO DEAL BEXIT;


Quote
Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.
Do you feel like you'll be a winner in a NO DEAL BREXIT?   

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 December 2018, 08:34:35 am
So you're better informed, more independant minded and a greater expert on these matters than this Minford bloke? :rolleyes .



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: nedworthy on 01 December 2018, 08:57:45 am
You can’t assume Minford is impartial, as. Prof of Economics it is more than likely he has a philosophical angle , just like Keynes did and most others do. So his independence , and therefore information should be viewed in that light.. You might also question his analysis in relation to where his research funding comes  from - this is the BAT approach of giving researchers millions of pounds to ‘prove’ tobacco doesn’t cause cancer 🤣.
Never ever underestimate the Tory parties ability to connive, manipulate and cut deals to stay in power .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 December 2018, 11:06:18 am
You can’t assume Minford is impartial
....or that VNA is impartial.
Never ever underestimate the Tory parties ability to connive, manipulate and cut deals to stay in power .
....or Corbyn's ability to do so in order to get in power.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 12:10:02 pm
Quote
So you're better informed, more independant minded and a greater expert on these matters than this Minford bloke? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) .

Ah I see nobody is allowed an opinion other than YamFazFan. :eek
 There are fundamental areas where I disagree with Minford.  For example why you would walk away from the EU single market (and it is a single market – it trades internally almost as one country) when it represents 25% of global GDP.  The argument is you do so in order to make independent deals with the remaining 75% of GDP.  But it’s spread across 168 countries right round the globe.  That's a shit load of Bureaucracy.



Another fundamental disagreement I have is…..  Well hopefully some day well get over BREXIT, because there is a far bigger global problem which makes squabbles over BREXIT seem somewhat insignificant, and that’s Global Warming.  We need to reduce or cease unenvironmentally friendly global trade.  For example, why is there New Zealand lamb in my supermarket, when sheep farming is a major industry in Scotland.  Exporting our lamb whilst importing New Zealand lamb is environmentally stupid – it’s big CO2 emissions for no gain.



Finally even if Minford is right about the UK becoming richer in a NO DEAL scenario, he agrees with those of us who wish to protect our manufacturing jobs (say for example Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Mini, Jaguar etc in the automotive industry) whom may walk in the event of a NO DEAL (remember they have had a personal reassurance from the PM that this will not happen).  Minford states that UK manufacturing will be eliminated.


So you have to ask yourself, is a Minford NO DEAL BREXIT really what you want.


So tell me YamFazFan do you want to see UK manufacturing eliminated? 

 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 December 2018, 01:08:58 pm
Quote
So you're better informed, more independant minded and a greater expert on these matters than this Minford bloke? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) .

Ah I see nobody is allowed an opinion other than YamFazFan. :eek

My apologies, I didn't realise it was just opinion and not fact. You sounded like you categorically knew better than him ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 01:19:04 pm
We as ordinary punters read or listen to the experts then make up our minds.  We make up our minds as to which expert makes the most sense. 

From the London School of Economics - http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-britain-alone-scenario-how-economists-for-brexit-defy-the-laws-of-gravity/#Author (http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/the-britain-alone-scenario-how-economists-for-brexit-defy-the-laws-of-gravity/#Author)

Quote
Summing up
Alternative economic models have different advantages and drawbacks and are suited for different purposes. Unfortunately, Minford’s model is inconsistent with two basic facts about international trade: first, that trade satisfies the gravity equation; and second, that the EU has been trade-creating, not simply a tool for trade diversion.
This implies that the model will give very unreliable predictions of the consequences of Brexit for trade and living standards. When we analyse the same scenario considered by Minford using a more realistic assessment of how UK ‘unilateral trade liberalisation’ could actually work, we find (alongside just about everyone else) that Brexit still leads to a decline in UK living standards.
Minford’s ‘Liverpool model’ with its 1970s vintage of perfect markets everywhere has a bad track record when it comes to policy analysis. For example, in 1997 the model ([url]http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199798/cmhansrd/vo971203/debtext/71203-39.htm[/url]) predicted that the proposed national minimum wage would mean millions more unemployed. Subsequent evaluations of the minimum wage have shown that the actual effect was rather less – zero, in fact (Metcalf ([url]http://hussonet.free.fr/dp0781.pdf[/url]), 2008).
Like the other 1970s hit, we Won’t Get Fooled Again.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 01:24:56 pm
 Remaining in the EU will kick the SNP and others call for a second Independence referendum into the long grass.


The Tories have been accusing Nicola Sturgeon of playing BREXIT for a second referendum.


Yet in the last week or so the SNP have come out and backed the so called ‘People’s Vote’. 



So ask yourself why would they do this?


And can I come back to the one thing I think Minford is absolutely right about;


Quote
Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.


So tell me YamFazFan do you want to see UK manufacturing eliminated?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 December 2018, 02:12:51 pm



And can I come back to the one thing I think Minford is absolutely right about;


Quote
Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.

I think Minford is absolutely wrong about that.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 December 2018, 02:15:11 pm
Keep thinking Mitford, as in the sisters :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 01 December 2018, 02:23:22 pm
It's not just Minford though is it.
Listen to Tim Martin and take a look what he's already done in his chain of Wetherspoons..
He's stopped selling European beers and wines and his prices have come down.
If we all made a conscious effort to boycott European goods, buy British where possible.
Be seen to putting public spaces and parts of gardens aside for allotment to grow our own it would send a clear message to the Facists they we are serious about BREXIT and preparing for a no deal.
That way we may get them back to the negotiating table.
It's called calling their bluff and preparing for every scenario.
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpoliticaluk.co.uk%2F2018%2F11%2Fwhetherspoons-boss-wins-support-from-audience-as-he-lists-no-deal-brexit-benefits%2F&h=AT2qdkG5Ho0S9aISUQERw66HEbb84saWyRMp2Y5nMNdwol5vTx5Dm3iVWOIX2ajh6GIVTYXOSJ0JaelOMouwLdJM9mtpoLvfoNxqB9jwpMcapLtsXWnXnM8irj4&s=1
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 December 2018, 03:24:29 pm
Quote
He's stopped selling European beers and wines and his prices have come down.
No he hasn't and no they haven't. I think he's still selling some Guinness, and I wonder where that's brewed? He's replaced some beers and wines with inferior products  :b
I'd check the term 'fascist' in the dictionary if I were you.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 03:40:23 pm
Quote
Be seen to putting public spaces and parts of gardens aside for allotment to grow our own it
Aye sadly it could come to that.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 03:42:16 pm
Quote
He's stopped selling European beers and wines and his prices have come down.
So what do you think will happen to his prices when the pound is worth 80p to the dollar?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 01 December 2018, 05:22:24 pm
So what do you think will happen to his prices when the pound is worth 80p to the dollar?

Lets see where you have the proof for that one then. - Or it it another remain goblin, to coin a phrase about unicorns thrown at leavers.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 01 December 2018, 05:39:39 pm
[[size=78%]quote author=mtread link=topic=24678.msg288203#msg288203 date=1543677869][/size]

Quote
He's stopped selling European beers and wines and his prices have come down.
[size=78%]No he hasn't and no they haven't. I think he's still selling some Guinness, and I wonder where that's brewed? He's replaced some beers and wines with inferior products  :b  I'd check the term 'fascist' in the dictionary if I were you.


Sorry, didn't realise you were a beer and wine quality expert too  :b
Some of our wines and beers are on par with what is produced in Europe and is considered to be some of the best in the world.
The wine I make is better, stronger and tastier than all that EU crap....FACT.....hic  :lol


With conditions and soil in the south east suiting the vineyards which are sprouting up all over the place.
But your missing the point.... It's about becoming as self sufficient as possible and sending the message to the protectionism racket that is the EU.
Their bullies and you stand up to bullies.
My sisters run a living museum with a house that has been decorated and furnished in the 1940's era.
They run open days with re-enactors and educate the local children about the world wars with school visits.
The garden has a large area, next to the Anderson shelter, set aside as allotment growing fresh fruit and veg all year round.
Don't you remember the saying"Dig for victory" sadly we are in danger of losing this British bulldog spirit of getting on with it. Something which the Brexiteers have not.
Again it's about sending the message across.
All these so called experts have their own agenda otherwise they'd all be saying the same but their not.
It's about how you see things and who you chose to believe (if any).
That's why it's been so devicive


And if you want to mislead people about Wetherspoons policy they should read this
Just because it may be lesser well known and British doesn't mean it's inferior quality, that's just trash talk.




https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/wetherspoon-pubs-to-stop-selling-eu-produced-drinks-in-run-up-to-brexit-37008191.html (https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/wetherspoon-pubs-to-stop-selling-eu-produced-drinks-in-run-up-to-brexit-37008191.html)

[/size]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 December 2018, 05:59:28 pm
Quote
But your missing the point....
No I'm not. I'm correcting what you said. He's not replacing ALL European beers and wines, just a few.
As for being an 'expert', I think I was brewing beer and making wine while you were still in short trousers :b


And as for replacing Champagne. Who on earth would buy Champagne in a Wetherspoons  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 December 2018, 06:07:56 pm
Having said that, we in the UK make some of the best beer in the world. But so do the Belgians and the Germans. I'd just like to have a choice.


As for 'Digging for Victory' I hope you like swedes and turnips  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 06:18:18 pm
Quote
Wetherspoon has four pubs in suburban Dublin and one in Cork.
:lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 06:18:57 pm
Quote
It also has two undeveloped sites in Carlow and Waterford and plans to purchase more sites around Ireland.
:lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 01 December 2018, 06:51:53 pm


Quote
But your missing the point....
No I'm not. I'm correcting what you said. He's not replacing ALL European beers and wines, just a few.
As for being an 'expert', I think I was brewing beer and making wine while you were still in short trousers :b


And as for replacing Champagne. Who on earth would buy Champagne in a Wetherspoons  :rollin
So you are an expert then  :rolleyes


Well, that's it for tonight....it's been fun but I'm off to get showered and
down Wetherspoons for some British Champagne and inferior quality beers ......Oh hang on a minute, didn't you do a UTurn on that one :lol

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 07:15:26 pm
Quote
I'm off to get showered and down Wetherspoons for some British Champagne
I think I can say with some certainty that you never be able to find, never mind taste, British Champagne! :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 01 December 2018, 07:24:13 pm
Ok then, how about sparkling wine :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 07:31:04 pm
 
Quote
Ok then, how about sparkling wine ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Sorry I thought you were a bloke.  Enjoy. :D   Personally I drink beer and whisky in the pub. ;)     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 01 December 2018, 07:37:06 pm
Getting a bit petty now I think. And if I have to dig for victory, then Ill do it. Some of our small breweries are turning out fabulous beers, so the EU can keep its bland tasteless lagers. If we are no longer able to get bratwurst, Gorgonzola, or Belgian chocolate, so what. In the grand scheme of things, they don't matter. If house prices tumble, great news for all those poor buggers that couldn't previously afford to buy a home. If the pound falls, it'll recover, it always has. Life will go on, and rather than the pigs ear parliament over the water churning out compromises which leave half of em unhappy all the time, dictating what national governments can and cant spend their own money on, we''l be back in control of our own destiny and stand or fall by it. If the Scots want to go their own way, let them go, be interesting to see Sturgeon with the begging bowl in Brussels, in the queue behind Romania/Bulgaria etc, with absolutely no say in matters

Oh, and by the way " TREASON" - the crime of showing no loyalty to your country, especially by helping its enemies or trying to defeat its government. :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 01 December 2018, 07:40:35 pm

Quote
Ok then, how about sparkling wine ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Sorry I thought you were a bloke.  Enjoy. :D   Personally I drink beer and whisky in the pub. ;)     






Don't fucking lie.....You're Scottish.....You'd drink anything if someone else was buying. :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 01 December 2018, 07:44:02 pm
Getting a bit petty now I think. And if I have to dig for victory, then Ill do it. Some of our small breweries are turning out fabulous beers, so the EU can keep its bland tasteless lagers. If we are no longer able to get bratwurst, Gorgonzola, or Belgian chocolate, so what. In the grand scheme of things, they don't matter. If house prices tumble, great news for all those poor buggers that couldn't previously afford to buy a home. If the pound falls, it'll recover, it always has. Life will go on, and rather than the pigs ear parliament over the water churning out compromises which leave half of em unhappy all the time, dictating what national governments can and cant spend their own money on, we''l be back in control of our own destiny and stand or fall by it. If the Scots want to go their own way, let them go, be interesting to see Sturgeon with the begging bowl in Brussels, in the queue behind Romania/Bulgaria etc, with absolutely no say in matters

Oh, and by the way " TREASON" - the crime of showing no loyalty to your country, especially by helping its enemies or trying to defeat its government. :)


^^^^
Yep...This





Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 01 December 2018, 07:45:09 pm
Anyway VNA
On one hand you talk about sheep and exporting/ importing being bad for the environment but on the other you seem to take umbridge with Witherspoon doing the right thing by the environment by only using UK beer/ sparkling wine. You want your wine/beer and drink it.What about all that yellow whisky stuff scotland sends to Japan, surely there is no need for all those air miles when saki tastes just as bad, so the Japanese may as well just stick to drinking that.  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 01 December 2018, 07:57:28 pm
If the Scots want to go their own way, let them go
:agree Totally--- forget a scot referendum it should be an English referendum if we want to kick the scots out.For one, it would make the weather forecast much better as we would not have to sit through pointless forecasts that have to cover right up to Lerwick.

 AND I want back the hour of daylight that scotland steals from us every October. ---Just so the farmers can see their sheep in the mornings so they they can catch them and send to New Zealand.     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 10:12:41 pm
 
Quote
On one hand you talk about sheep and exporting/ importing being bad for the environment but on the other you seem to take umbridge with Witherspoon doing the right thing by the environment by only using UK beer/ sparkling wine.

If I remember correctly Tim Martin plans to replace European wines with Australian, Chilean etc.  I’m a big fan local and UK beers.  And I thank England for leading the way in the promotion of real ale.  Thank-you England for bringing back real beer :)


 
Quote
What about all that yellow whisky stuff scotland sends to Japan, surely there is no need for all those air miles when saki tastes just as bad, so the Japanese may as well just stick to drinking that.


 
I’m not against global trade, it’s just there’s a need to think carefully now about what we import/export.  I mean do we really need apples from Argentina?  Does it really make sense to air freight fresh veg?
I think there will always be an international trade in certain drinks.  Scottish Whisky is second to none.  Though the Japanese are keeping us on our toes, they make some fine whisky themselves.
Quote
AND I want back the hour of daylight that scotland steals from us every October. ---Just so the farmers can see their sheep in the mornings so they they can catch them and send to New Zealand.     
Nothing to do with us.  Nothing to do with farming either.  Was supposed to be about the school kids walking to school in daylight.  The sooner they keep us on summer time all year round the better.  At the moment round my way the sun rises at 08.25 and sets at 15.49 – the day is 7hrs 23 minutes long and we’ve still 30 minutes to loose.  Foccing murder.



 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 December 2018, 11:14:23 pm
Quote
so the EU can keep its bland tasteless lagers. If we are no longer able to get bratwurst, Gorgonzola, or Belgian chocolate, so what. In the grand scheme of things, they don't matter.


Belgian Trappist Dubble and Tripel, French Chimay Bleu, German purity laws and Schwarzbier. Spanish Chorizo, Italian Prosciutto, Olive Oil, etc etc.


Oh I forgot, you're from Up North  :(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 December 2018, 11:32:09 pm
Quote
Belgian Trappist Dubble and Tripel, French Chimay Bleu, German purity laws and Schwarzbier.
The Belgians are serious beer nuts.  Don't forget Czech beer.
And Port, where is Tim going to find an alternative tae Port.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 December 2018, 11:39:47 pm
I think when Fazersharp spelt Wetherspoons as 'Witherspoons' he got it spot on  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 December 2018, 12:06:21 am
Quote
forget a scot referendum it should be an English referendum
Well as London produces 22% of the UK GDP, we're thinking of getting rid of the rest of England  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grayo on 02 December 2018, 05:29:31 pm
(https://i.postimg.cc/vTLhM9kM/FB-IMG-1542572911122.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/T51gJyTH)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 December 2018, 09:04:27 pm
I can't see any image Grayo,
 Anyway, I’m still struggling to figure out what it is you BREXITEERS want.


The one thing I can come up with is control of our borders,


Yet, the latest figures show that net migration from the EU has fallen to 74,000.  Non-EU net immigration is 248,000


So the claim that leaving the EU will drastically curb immigration is false.  What will do is impact on our economy.



Note also that under directive 2004/38 EU migrants only have a right to residence in a member state for 3 months.  After that they need to have one of three things in order to continue to stay – A job – A job lined up – or be able to demonstrate that they have the means to support themselves. 

So we already have the means to control EU movement.




 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 03 December 2018, 07:09:23 pm
Quote
Belgian Trappist Dubble and Tripel, French Chimay Bleu, German purity laws and Schwarzbier.
The Belgians are serious beer nuts.  Don't forget Czech beer.
And Port, where is Tim going to find an alternative tae Port.

I equally don't think that too much port is drunk in W-Spoons either. And we brew a very good Trappist beer right here in the uk.
Czech beer - we will just then have to wait for Staropramen and Pilsner Urquell until a Czech-Out which is on the cards once we show that it can be done. Urquell is much nicer than most of the boring German wheat beers. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 December 2018, 10:56:49 pm


Note also that under directive 2004/38 EU migrants only have a right to residence in a member state for 3 months.  After that they need to have one of three things in order to continue to stay – A job – A job lined up – or be able to demonstrate that they have the means to support themselves. 

So we already have the means to control EU movement.


What happens if they don't fulfil those conditions?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 December 2018, 12:04:59 am
Quote
until a Czech-Out which is on the cards once we show that it can be done.
Don't you believe it. I go to the Czech Republic and Slovakia every year. The EU are giving them too much money for them to want to leave
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 04 December 2018, 11:31:20 am
Quote
until a Czech-Out which is on the cards once we show that it can be done.
Don't you believe it. I go to the Czech Republic and Slovakia every year. The EU are giving them too much money for them to want to leave
The more I find out the less I want to be in.
On a side note I thought that the Staropramen served in the bars was not as tasty as it is here for some reason but it was cheap but then again via the EU I am subsidising it anyway. Here I am tasting standard / cloudy and dark, did not bother with the one that is all froth.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 December 2018, 04:38:37 pm
If you get away from Prague you'd rarely pay more than the equivalent of £1for half a litre. Likewise Slovakia. They also have lots of breweries, not just the few we get here. I like the dark ones best.
As to prices, they've always been cheap, even pre EU. Part of the communist philosophy. Give the population cheap alcohol and tobacco, and they won't notice everything else that's bad.
Then of course there's Scandinavia, with a slightly different approach  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 December 2018, 05:49:41 pm
 
Quote
What happens if they don't fulfil those conditions?
They do not have a right to remain.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 December 2018, 05:59:32 pm
 
Quote
Well as London produces 22% of the UK GDP, we're thinking of getting rid of the rest of England  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])

 
That might be a plan.  Under Professor Minford’s (the economist the BREXITEERS love) forecast the UK will in financial terms have something of an economic boost under a NO DEAL BREXIT.  However, it will be the financial sector that according to him be given a massive boost, whilst as he says the bulk of UK manufacturing will be devastated.


So, you could have a situation where London accounts for 35-40% of GDP while the north of England is laid to waste.  Think of the north under a NO DEAL becoming akin to the rust belt of the USA.


 On the other hand, a few years down the line you might see London, just as we are seeing today in Paris, being torn down once all those in the north, and in fact the vast majority of ordinary people, realise that they have been conned.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 December 2018, 06:11:35 pm
Quote
What happens if they don't fulfil those conditions?
They do not have a right to remain.

Does that mean they are sent back to the member state that they came from?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 December 2018, 06:14:16 pm
Quote
Does that mean they are sent back to the member state that they came from?.
What it means is that they are no longer in the country legally.  They can be removed.
So I am at a loss as to what the big advantage of BREXIT is.
In fact there are no positives to May's DEAL, and no positives to NO DEAL.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 December 2018, 06:19:54 pm
Quote
Does that mean they are sent back to the member state that they came from?.
What it means is that they are no longer in the country legally.  They can be removed.
Are they all removed?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grayo on 04 December 2018, 06:36:30 pm
Don't know what happened to my image so I'll try again.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 December 2018, 06:46:54 pm
European Court of Justice Attorney General has said Brexit is reversible in law, after Scottish legal challenge.

https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/1070012341335572481
We now have a way out of this mess.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 04 December 2018, 07:04:33 pm
More news

 The Corbin May TV debate is off
 Macron backs down on fuel tax
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 December 2018, 07:06:08 pm
And we will see the full legal advice that the government didn't want us to know. So the truth will be out
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46446694 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46446694)
I believe the BBC said this is the first time ever a government has been held in contempt of Parliament  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 December 2018, 07:07:55 pm
Yup that's a shocker. 
This is an absolute disaster.We need to ditch BREXIT and get our parliament back to running the UK.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 December 2018, 07:09:20 pm
Quote
Macron backs down on fuel tax
Well he's only postponed it for now, but who knows. Interesting in that what he wanted to do was equalise Petrol and Diesel Excise duty, which is what the UK has done for many years
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 December 2018, 07:12:20 pm
Don't know what happened to my image so I'll try again.
We've seen that nonsense thing before :z . I think mtread's already posted it
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 December 2018, 07:12:32 pm
Remain is on a roll  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 December 2018, 07:14:29 pm
Quote
I think mtread's already posted it
That is true, but I've got loads more  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 December 2018, 07:18:19 pm
We need to ditch BREXIT
Just watching parliament live. That's what quite a few MP's are saying. I'm amazed how many of them don't appear to know that there's been a referendum or the result of it :eek . Shocking really. You wouldn't think that there was anyone left in the UK who didn't know.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 December 2018, 07:20:09 pm
Remain is on a roll  :lol
I'm not swallowing that ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 December 2018, 07:20:39 pm
What is it that you want YamFazFan,
You never answered my question;
Quote
Quote<blockquote>Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.</blockquote>

So tell me YamFazFan do you want to see UK manufacturing eliminated?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 December 2018, 07:39:15 pm
What is it that you want YamFazFan,
You never answered my question;
Quote
Quote<blockquote>Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.</blockquote>

So tell me YamFazFan do you want to see UK manufacturing eliminated?



And can I come back to the one thing I think Minford is absolutely right about;


Quote
Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.

I think Minford is absolutely wrong about that.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 December 2018, 08:14:39 pm
Quote
That's what quite a few MP's are saying. I'm amazed how many of them don't appear to know that there's been a referendum or the result of it . Shocking really. You wouldn't think that there was anyone left in the UK who didn't know.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 December 2018, 08:52:44 pm
 
Quote
I think Minford is absolutely wrong about that.

So what you are doing is taking an economic model and cherry picking the bits you like and dismissing those you don’t. 



Ah, if only life could be like that.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 December 2018, 08:58:54 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtmGL0JWoAAAjQB.jpg)(https://twitter.com/cartoon4sale?lang=en)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 December 2018, 09:08:46 pm
Quote
I think Minford is absolutely wrong about that.

So what you are doing is taking an economic model and cherry picking the bits you like and dismissing those you don’t. 
Isn't that what you did too :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 December 2018, 09:20:28 pm
Quote
Isn't that what you did too ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url])

Umm, no.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 December 2018, 08:30:58 am
Quote
I think Minford is absolutely wrong about that.

So what you are doing is taking an economic model and cherry picking the bits you like and dismissing those you don’t. 



Ah, if only life could be like that.

 

And can I come back to the one thing I think Minford is absolutely right about;


Quote
Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 05 December 2018, 11:33:58 am
Im not weakening. I do not want to remain in an organisation that we can never leave, makes our laws, and has to appease 27 other groups before it can get any agreement. We need to tackle some very serious internal problems as an orderly society is slipping further away from us day by day. Constantly having to have one eye on whats happening in that spiders web of self interested despots, some of whom wish us great harm, is a distraction and a financial burden upon us.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 December 2018, 11:58:01 am
.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 December 2018, 12:02:44 pm
And there's more.....

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 December 2018, 12:33:02 pm

 I don't care if its 1 law - its one too many.   

 And there are laws and there are "laws"Here are some facts for your dis- information propaganda.
   
According to the House of Commons Library (http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/RP10-62/RP10-62.pdf), which itself concedes that there is no completely accurate way to make the calculation, between 1993 and 2014 Parliament passed 945 Acts of which 231 implemented EU obligations of some sort.
It also passed 33,160 Statutory Instruments, 4,283 of which implemented EU obligations. Add both of these together and divide by the total number of laws passed, and you get the 13% figure.
But that's not really an accurate figure because most EU regulations don't require new UK laws. They can be implemented in the UK without new legislation, for example by simply changing administrative rules.  So, the 13% figure doesn't take into account EU regulations that don't need additional UK legislation to be brought into force.
If you count all EU regulations, EU-related Acts of Parliament, and EU-related Statutory Instruments, about 62% of laws introduced between 1993 and 2014 that apply in the UK implemented EU obligations.
Robert Oxley from Vote Leave says, "If you stacked the entire EU rule book it would be higher than Nelson's column. That's an incredible amount of paperwork which British businesses, British employers, all the people who have to comply with this legislation have to deal with.  It is cost and time added on to their businesses."
But some put the figure far lower, at around 13%. So who is right?
In a nutshell it's somewhere in-between the two - let's look at why.
To try to work out the proportion of UK law derived from EU law, you need to define what you mean by UK law and EU law, understand how they relate to one another, and only then "do the math".
So, what is meant by UK law? That's tricky because the devolved legislatures in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales all pass laws that apply only in their nations, and not all laws passed at Westminster apply to the entire UK.
Essentially, there are two main kinds of UK law. Acts of Parliament, also known as statutes, and statutory instruments, which flesh out how a statute will work.
There are also two main types of EU law. There are EU regulations, most of which apply automatically in all 28 EU member states - so most EU regulations are part of UK law.
Then there are EU directives, which set out an aim for member states to achieve. They don't specify how to achieve it, but directives have to be implemented by a national law. The UK normally does this through a statutory instrument.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 December 2018, 01:07:13 pm
Quote
If you count all EU regulations, EU-related Acts of Parliament, and EU-related Statutory Instruments, about 62% of laws introduced between 1993 and 2014 that apply in the UK implemented EU obligations.
I find that difficult to believe. What's your source? As pointed out, the 14% figure is research in the House of Commons Library
Quote
Robert Oxley from Vote Leave says, [/size]"If you stacked the entire EU rule book it would be higher than Nelson's colum
Which is of course typical Vote Leave hyperbole...

[/size][size=78%] [/size]


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 December 2018, 02:00:13 pm
Quote
If you count all EU regulations, EU-related Acts of Parliament, and EU-related Statutory Instruments, about 62% of laws introduced between 1993 and 2014 that apply in the UK implemented EU obligations.
I find that difficult to believe. What's your source? As pointed out, the 14% figure is research in the House of Commons Library
Quote
Robert Oxley from Vote Leave says, [/size]"If you stacked the entire EU rule book it would be higher than Nelson's colum
Which is of course typical Vote Leave hyperbole...

[/size][size=78%] [/size]



Here you go -enjoy.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 05 December 2018, 02:57:33 pm
Quietly re-assembling the suspension on the fazer in the garage, with the radio on (proper mantime). A cross section of MPs discussing Brexit. Astonishingly, (well, not really) all pushing the so called peoples vote (their vote really) the best question came from a fellow oop north, who simply asked, if you get your peoples vote, what would you do if you lost again?

Followed by bluster and completely failing to answer.

Given the all of the forecasts predicted a majority to remain at the referendum, which all proved wrong, what would you do if you lost again?

Still whinge?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 December 2018, 04:54:14 pm
It's the possibility of Remain winning a second referendum that you need to really worry about. Does anyone seriously think it wouldn't be as close either way as the first one was?
Leave will have had to win twice. Remain only have to win once. That's why they're so keen to have another crack at it ;)

If there were a second, the result would be binding. Say Remain win by 52% to 48%. That's the same as the margin Leave won by in the first referendum so it's a draw over the two rounds, but only the second one counts and then we're stuck in that rotten to the core institution forever.
They'd be as ungracious in victory as they are in defeat. They would be rubbing Leaver's noses right in it.
If Remain lost again I dread to think how low they would stoop in an attempt to overturn the democratic result again.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 December 2018, 06:08:18 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA on 04 December 2018, 08:52:44 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg288378.html#msg288378[/url])
Quote
I think Minford is absolutely wrong about that.

 So what you are doing is taking an economic model and cherry picking the bits you like and dismissing those you don’t. 
 
 
 
 Ah, if only life could be like that.
 
 

Quote from: VNA on 01 December 2018, 01:24:56 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg288193.html#msg288193[/url])

 And can I come back to the one thing I think Minford is absolutely right about; 

Quote
Minford admits his model predicts that the policy would cause the ‘elimination’ of UK manufacturing and a large increase in wage inequality.

I’m not promoting Minford's view.  I am not cherry picking it,  I am criticising it.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 December 2018, 06:26:59 pm
 
Quote
It's the possibility of Remain winning a second referendum that you need to really worry about. Does anyone seriously think it wouldn't be as close either way as the first one was?
 Leave will have had to win twice. Remain only have to win once. That's why they're so keen to have another crack at it ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])
 
 If there were a second, the result would be binding. Say Remain win by 52% to 48%. That's the same as the margin Leave won by in the first referendum so it's a draw over the two rounds, but only the second one counts and then we're stuck in that rotten to the core institution forever.
 They'd be as ungracious in victory as they are in defeat. They would be rubbing Leaver's noses right in it.
 If Remain lost again I dread to think how low they would stoop in an attempt to overturn the democratic result again.

 
I wouldn’t get too excited about a second referendum.  It is only one option.  Though it has become a viable option.


One of the key moments yesterday was the ruling by the European Court of Justice’s advocate general;
Quote
The formal legal recommendation cites Britain's "sovereignty" in treaty-making matters and says withdrawal "may be revoked at any time" during the negotiating period, as long as it is done in good faith.

So what does that mean?  I think in practise it means that NO DEAL is now buried.  I think it also means that May’s deal is dead.  May has tried everything she can to block this advice.  Why?  Because without an exit she can hold a gun to MP’s heads and state, it’s my deal or NO DEAL.


Tory MPs now know that they can vote down May’s deal without the fear of a NO DEAL BREXIT occurring by default.  All MP’s now know it is safe to vote this deal down.


So what could happen is…..  May’s deal is voted down.  May might try again (perhaps doubtful as she may lose spectacularly in the first vote) but it could be voted down a second time.  May will be left with no credibility and the government will be at war with itself as the clock ticks slowly to Armageddon and a NO DEAL BREXIT.


But the government will not risk NO DEAL.  There are only a few dozen MP’s who are in favour of NO DEAL.  Parliament now has the power to call a vote on article 50.


NO DEAL will not happen because the parliament will stop it.  As a sovereign state, as a representative democracy, out MP’s have the power to act to stop such a disaster.


Our democracy is alive and well. :D
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 December 2018, 06:47:28 pm

Our democracy is alive and well. :D


They'd be as ungracious in victory as they are in defeat. They would be rubbing Leaver's noses right in it.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 December 2018, 06:51:34 pm
If such a scenario does indeed arise.
It's not a matter of victory, simply a matter of saving our country from itself.
It is clear that at some point this nonsense has to be nipped in the bud.
At the end of the day it was and is about the Tory party.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 December 2018, 06:56:45 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtqlImsWoAEzp-q.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 December 2018, 07:00:56 pm
This site is on the blink I reckon. That's another blank post just appeared (VNA 6:56:45pm). There's others in seperate threads. Logging in isn't straightforward anymore, unintended quotes appear in posts, paragraph gaps dissapear..........
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 December 2018, 07:02:10 pm
......or is it just me?? :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 December 2018, 07:06:13 pm
Looks fine tae me.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 December 2018, 08:11:22 pm
I can see your pic in post #722 on a mobile phone, but on laptop it just appears as an edit message or a blank in this mode.
The quote text in your post #718 is too miniscule to read on both devices.
It must be just me. I give up :rolleyes .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 December 2018, 08:15:33 pm
 Oh and talking of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists;
 
Well has anybody seen Nigel recently?  I couldn’t believe it yesterday when I saw the short report on the BBC concerning his resignation from UKIP.  Apparently over some little prick called Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon being taken on by UKIP as an ‘advisor’.
 
You know when I saw that a week or so ago on Twitter, I actually thought it was piss taking or fake news or something.  I didn’t pay any attention to it.  Even I didn’t think UKIP was that extreme, or for that matter stupid.
 
So it’s now fruitcakes loonies and racists.  I think we can drop the closet bit. :lol

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 December 2018, 09:28:03 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtrKTJbW0AAkneZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 December 2018, 12:37:58 am
Quote
Here you go -enjoy.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105)
The article you quote goes on to say:
''So, does that mean that the Brexiteers are right?Not according to many expert lawyers and academics. There are a number of reasons for this. Firstly, some EU regulations, like those governing tobacco and olive oil production, are agreed by all member states but don't actually affect us at all because we don't have those industries here.
We also adopt some EU regulations that simply codify existing UK law at a European level. In other words, we would have that law anyway. But perhaps the biggest way in which it is said the 62% is inflated is because it includes within it what are known as non-legislative EU regulations, which concern matters so small or routine that many people wouldn't really recognise them as law.''

Well Fazersharp, you seem to have well and truly shot yourself in the foot there  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 December 2018, 12:44:01 am
Quote
I can see your pic in post #722 on a mobile phone, but on laptop it just appears as an edit message or a blank in this mode.The quote text in your post #718 is too miniscule to read on both devices.It must be just me. I give up  .

Bloody EU!  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 December 2018, 12:46:52 am
Here's Boris after yesterday's debate in Parliament

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 12:08:56 pm
Quote
Here you go -enjoy.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105)
The article you quote goes on to say:
''So, does that mean that the Brexiteers are right?Not according to many expert lawyers and academics. There are a number of reasons for this. Firstly, some EU regulations, like those governing tobacco and olive oil production, are agreed by all member states but don't actually affect us at all because we don't have those industries here.
We also adopt some EU regulations that simply codify existing UK law at a European level. In other words, we would have that law anyway. But perhaps the biggest way in which it is said the 62% is inflated is because it includes within it what are known as non-legislative EU regulations, which concern matters so small or routine that many people wouldn't really recognise them as law.''

Quote
Well Fazersharp, you seem to have well and truly shot yourself in the foot there  :lol
Err - no. all you have done is back up exactly what I said, which was   
Quote
And there are laws and there are "laws"
  you backed me up with this bit
Quote
includes within it what are known as non-legislative EU regulations, which concern matters so small or routine that many people wouldn't really recognise them as law.''
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 December 2018, 01:02:56 pm
All of which means ( according to many expert lawyers and academics) that the Brixiteers have got it wrong and it's nowhere near 62%?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 01:44:38 pm
All of which means ( according to many expert lawyers and academics) that the Brixiteers have got it wrong and it's nowhere near 62%?
Laws and "laws" if you want to be pedantic about it to try and debunk figures then go ahead.
Lets word it differently for you.
62% of UK laws and non-legislative regulations come from the EU
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 06 December 2018, 02:04:44 pm
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=513143645859870&id=166361507446533
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 December 2018, 02:10:16 pm
Quote
62% of UK laws and non-legislative regulations come from the EU
Including those on Tobacco and Olive growing. The BBC examination is making the point that the 62% is totally misleading. They are the ones being pedantic. 62% is Leave's own version of 'Project Fraud'.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 02:45:18 pm
I still haven't got a clue as to the 'laws' you object to?
And how those 'laws' are impacting on your life.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 03:04:58 pm
I still haven't got a clue as to the 'laws' you object to?
And how those 'laws' are impacting on your life.

This --- coming from someone who wants an independent scotlanl REALLY !  :rolleyes do you not see the irony.

If you claim to not understand then there is no point explaining it to you because you wouldn't understand that either.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 03:35:38 pm
Give us examples of the laws you object to.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 03:38:18 pm
Here's one -- Daylight running lights
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 03:38:26 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtuHQVbWoAAo46o.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 03:40:07 pm
Quote
Daylight running lights
You want to leave the EU becuase of daylight running lights?
I mean what the  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 03:41:26 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtuHQVbWoAAo46o.jpg)
An out of work plumber --- :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 03:43:18 pm
Quote
Daylight running lights
You want to leave the EU becuase of daylight running lights?
I mean what the  :eek
You asked for one - I gave you one.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 03:51:27 pm
Yesterday ----- Macron backs down on fuel tax

 Like I said on 4th December
 
Macron backs down on fuel tax
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 06 December 2018, 03:52:22 pm
Abnormal curvature of bananas :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 04:08:20 pm
Quote
Abnormal curvature of bananas

Quote
A Brussels ban on bendy bananas is one of the EU’s most persistent myths.
Bananas have always been classified by quality and size for international trade. Because the standards, set by individual governments and the industry, were confusing, the European Commission was asked to draw up new rules.
Commission regulation 2257/94 decreed ([url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6481969.stm[/url]) that bananas in general should be “free from malformation or abnormal curvature”. Those sold as “extra class” must be perfect, “class 1” can have “slight defects of shape” and “class 2” can have full-scale “defects of shape”.
Nothing is banned under the regulation, which sets grading rules requested by industry to make sure importers – including UK wholesalers and supermarkets – know exactly what they will be getting when they order abox of bananas.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/11/boris-johnson-launches-the-vote-leave-battlebus-in-cornwall (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/11/boris-johnson-launches-the-vote-leave-battlebus-in-cornwall)
So another myth.
You will note that this piece of legislation was requested by the fruit and veg industry itself.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 04:09:33 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dtuw_oLWwAAYA6r.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 04:11:22 pm
Google, google, google --- and then debunk DRL then
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 04:12:46 pm
 So, so far the BREXITEER foccers reasons for leaving the EU are
1.        Day light running lights
2.       Curved bananas
3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather got shot in the leg by a German 100 years ago.
 
Anything else?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 04:21:56 pm
So, so far the BREXITEER foccers reasons for leaving the EU are
1.        Day light running lights
2.       Curved bananas
3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather got shot in the leg by a German 100 years ago.
 
Anything else?
 
:z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 04:28:35 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dtl7q-QX4AAQYdo.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 04:36:51 pm
So here's the possibe options as we stand today.
Note - this may all change at a moments notice. :lol


May’s deal passes A political shock: Theresa May squeaks over the line after convincing Brexiteers that it was her deal or no Brexit — and Remainers that it was her deal or a no-deal Brexit. The DUP then rains on May’s parade. Seething over the backstop, it declares that the confidence and supply agreement is over for good. This scenario could involve delaying the initial vote in the hope this gives MPs time to come around.

It passes on a second vote Theresa May’s deal fails to pass first time round by 50 votes. Insisting Nothing Has Changed, the Prime Minister flies to an EU council meeting the following day where she wins some ‘clarifications’ for wavering MPs. The markets start to get jittery about no deal and sterling falls. Nervous MPs begrudgingly vote the deal through. Ministers refer to this as the TARP method, in reference to the market panic which helped the US government push its 2008 bank bailout through Congress.

 EEA membership When the withdrawal agreement returns for a second vote, MPs add an amendment instructing the government to negotiate a Norway-style Brexit which would see the UK enter the EEA — the thinking being that this avoids the perils of the backstop. Remain-minded cabinet members support this safer option, as do a chunk of Tory MPs, Labour MPs and the DUP, because Northern Ireland would not be treated differently. May’s position becomes untenable as EEA membership means the continuation of freedom of movement: her one remaining Brexit red line.

 Early election The Prime Minister’s deal loses by more than 100 votes. As civil war breaks out in the Tory party (again), Labour makes its play for an early election and tries to defeat the government in a confidence motion. Angered over the backstop, the DUP say they will vote with opposition MPs unless the Tories agree to change tack. May refuses, the motion passes and the Commons has 14 days to approve a new government — perhaps the Tories led by a DUP-friendly leader like Boris Johnson. However, any Tory Brexiteer promising to ditch the backstop and pursue a hard Brexit loses the backing of pro-Remain Tories like Anna Soubry and Dominic Grieve. The country goes to the polls.

Second referendum There is no consensus on a way forward. MPs ask whether the only way to break the deadlock is to go back to the people. Cross-party MPs tied to the People’s Vote campaign say they will vote for the government’s deal on the condition it is put to a public vote — with Remain on the ballot paper. Brexiteers ponder whether the only way left to get a proper Brexit is to win another referendum. Desperate to break the impasse, May says she will take her deal to a vote. Fights ensue over what the question should be. Article 50 is suspended to make time for a second referendum.

 No-deal Brexit The government’s Brexit deal is rejected across the House. MPs then spend the next eight weeks bickering about the varying merits of EEA membership, a second referendum and revoking Article 50. May faces a challenge over her leadership from MPs who blame her for the mess. No consensus can be found, the clock ticks on and time runs out: the UK leaves on WTO terms. A belated attempt at a negotiated no deal gets under way to allow planes to fly, citizens to travel and goods to flow between the UK and the Continent.

No Brexit After May’s historic defeat, the letters go in and Theresa May loses a confidence vote. Concluding this is not a time for partisan politics, cross-party MPs come together and form a government of ‘national unity’. Their first step? To revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit — at least until an alternative plan is decided.


https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/war-gaming-the-brexit-vote-seven-scenarios-for-what-happens-next/ (https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/war-gaming-the-brexit-vote-seven-scenarios-for-what-happens-next/)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 06 December 2018, 04:57:57 pm
So, so far the BREXITEER foccers reasons for leaving the EU are
1.        Day light running lights
2.       Curved bananas
3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather got shot in the leg by a German 100 years ago.
 
Anything else?
And that just goes to prove what kind of person you are.
You can trivialise it if you like. He was lucky to survive.
Do you know what sort of an injury a high velocity round causes.
He almost lost his leg and was lucky not to lose his life.
I think only you would stoop as low as to try and make a personal comment towards my Great Grandfather.
There are plenty of other things you could have mentioned to make your point.


I'm not going to rise to the provocation because it's just the Internet and to be honest I feel quite sorry for you.
Anyone who carries as much VeNom As you do and obviously takes great delight in insulting people and calling everyone they don't agree with racists can't be very happy.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 05:01:58 pm
Quote
And that just goes to prove what kind of person you are.
You can trivialise it if you like. He was lucky to survive.
Do you know what sort of an injury a high velocity round causes.
He almost lost his leg and was lucky not to lose his life.
I think only you would stoop as low as to try and make a personal comment towards my Great Grandfather.
There are plenty of other things you could have mentioned to make your point.
You did state it was one reason you wanted to leave the EU.
Quote
Anyone who carries as much VeNom As you do and obviously takes great delight in insulting people and calling everyone they don't agree with racists can't be very happy.
Really :eek :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 05:05:07 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dtb5EkmW0AEZnR5.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 07:13:33 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtwPM-1XQAAb_oM.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 December 2018, 09:19:35 pm
Daylight Running Lights. If the EU make them compulsory for new cars,  do you really think we wouldn't if we left the EU? Are motor manufacturers really going to the expense of  making special editions without them just for the UK?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 December 2018, 09:25:22 pm
Quote
Yesterday ----- Macron backs down on fuel tax
You mean the same equalisation of diesel and petrol duties we have had in the UK for the last 40 odd years?
Also worth pointing out Fuel Duties are nothing to do with the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 09:27:53 pm
Daylight Running Lights. If the EU make them compulsory for new cars,  do you really think we wouldn't if we left the EU? Are motor manufacturers really going to the expense of  making special editions without them just for the UK?
No of course not  :rolleyes I was asked for a law I did not like and I gave one.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 09:48:06 pm
Quote
Yesterday ----- Macron backs down on fuel tax
Also worth pointing out Fuel Duties are nothing to do with the EU.
Never said they were anything to do with the EU - no wonder you didn't understand what the bus said.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 December 2018, 10:14:49 pm

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtwPM-1XQAAb_oM.jpg)


I bet all of the sailors mutinied when they found out that he'd drunk that barrel of rum dry ;) . Mind you credit where it's due, he's done well to hold that plank steady considering  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 December 2018, 10:29:21 pm
Quote
No of course not  I was asked for a law I did not like and I gave one.

There are lots of UK laws I'm not too keen on!



Quote
Never said they were anything to do with the EU - no wonder you didn't understand what the bus said.

But this is a Brexit thread, so you did a thread  :hijack    and I understood the bus lie perfectly  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 10:33:48 pm
Quote
No of course not  I was asked for a law I did not like and I gave one.

There are lots of UK laws I'm not too keen on!
Agreed - BUT you can vote out the politicians who made them in this country.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 10:38:16 pm
Quote
Never said they were anything to do with the EU - no wonder you didn't understand what the bus said.

But this is a Brexit thread, so you did a thread  :hijack    and I understood the bus lie perfectly  :lol

I was going to make a point about laws - EU and in general that it seems only the UK that takes them and abides by them, Doesn't matter EU - or local, if the French don't like em -------they dot get em.The UK has to do what they are told whilst the French do what they like. The French farmers just the same - as is the fishermen.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 December 2018, 10:56:08 pm

Quote from: mtread link=topic=24678.msg288523#msg288523 date=[font=verdana
But this is a Brexit thread, so you did a thread  :hijack  [/font]



'and other politics' it said in steve 10562cc's OP :deal
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 December 2018, 11:01:19 pm
Quotes brackets disease strikes again :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 11:18:29 pm
What is the aim of all of these Goebbels-esk propaganda cartoons is it just to name call, wind up, insult every leave voter. Surely the remainers efforts would be better spent trying to gather support for their cause and even try to reverse leave voters opinions rather than mocking the leavers, all you are doing is entrenching the leavers views. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 December 2018, 11:26:31 pm
Here is my prediction.May's deal will be voted down.
Borris will mount a leadership challenge.
Nigel Farage will become a Lord/knight and enter the government.Borris wins the PM after saying he will call for an election.Labour will agree to one being called
Conservative party will win with the help of Lord Farage.No deal Brexit.We negotiate into the parts of the EU we want from a position of strength.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 06 December 2018, 11:43:01 pm
Oh My!
This is the first time i have visited this thread for a while now, and, I see it has gone down hill quite rapidly, not that it was very upmarket from in inception. as it was a post for VNA  :eek :eek :eek :lol :lol :lol .

We can pontificate as much as we like, having this opinion and that opinion, but alas it will be done unto you, whether you like it or not.

Do you honestly think that you as a British person (No matter what colour skin you have, even if your from North of the Border and your pale blue) have any more rights or are listened to in this country, than say nationals, Filipinos or Nepalese do in Dubai?
We will be shafted by those in power whether its Theresa, Jeremy or any of the other selfish grabbing bastards that are at the helm. After all we all expected to contribute to Sir Peter Viggers the cost of a £1,645 floating duck-house
Or just to sight another of our ministers that are looking after our and the country's interests, Kitty Ussher this woman resigned as a Treasury minister after avoiding a £17,000 tax bill on the sale of her home.
T
here are different rules for different folk.
Fuck you Jack I'm all right!  :eek

How is that for a hijack? or is that a fuck you hijack?  :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 11:56:05 pm
Borris will mount a leadership challenge.

Boris tae the rescue :eek

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2eOkSWWQAApHj-.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 December 2018, 11:57:37 pm
Quote
not that it was very upmarket from in inception. as it was a post for VNA  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) .
Cheeky bastard :foc
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 December 2018, 12:13:49 am
What is the aim of all of these Goebbels-esk propaganda cartoons is it just to name call, wind up, insult every leave voter. Surely the remainers efforts would be better spent trying to gather support for their cause and even try to reverse leave voters opinions rather than mocking the leavers, all you are doing is entrenching the leavers views.
You'd be forgiven for thinking that 'Leave' had lost the referendum wouldn't you?.
'Remain' are now the ones acting victorious and Leave defensive. Obviously that's not how it should be but Remain are full of confidence, even in defeat, because they know that they have the force of the establishment on their side attempting to make every effort to reverse the referendum result. Who can blame Remain for being optimistic?. Not me. I'd be very surprised if we come out. Over 17 million votes and 52% to 48% probably isn't going to sway it ufortunately :\ .
If it had been 52% to Remain it would have been declared a clear victory, end of debate no doubt.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 December 2018, 12:23:42 am
Quote
What is the aim of all of these Goebbels-esk propaganda cartoons is it just to name call, wind up, insult every leave voter. Surely the remainers efforts would be better spent trying to gather support for their cause and even try to reverse leave voters opinions rather than mocking the leavers, all you are doing is entrenching the leavers views.
OK

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 December 2018, 12:35:26 am
Quote
Agreed - BUT you can vote out the politicians who made them in this country.
But no you can't. You can vote for one MP, one (or perhaps two) local councillors. If your candidate is elected and in opposition, you don't get what you want.
What's the difference with the EU? You vote for your candidate as an MEP. If they win, they have a vote in the European Parliament. If you don't like what your MEP is doing, you can vote them out. If your MEP joins with others to resist an EU proposal, then it won't happen.
Does anybody here actually bother to vote in the European Parliament elections?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 December 2018, 12:48:15 am
Quote
Who can blame Remain for being optimistic?. Not me. I'd be very surprised if we come out.
I think you're right, but not without another referendum. If the result is something like 60:40 or above  Remain they will use that to overturn the 48:52.
My betting though is a delay on the March deadline followed by a renegotiated deal keeping all of the UK in the Customs Union and the Single Market. What NI is getting, but for all of the UK. A sort of Norway deal and not far removed from Theresa's current offerring, and closer to Labour's 6 tests. Shuts up the DUP too. UK then can say it has formally left the EU, but still takes most of the rules. Does mean though that in future UK can withdraw any time it likes. Theresa's escape plan.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 December 2018, 08:15:35 am


What's the difference with the EU?


You can't vote either in or out the unelected members of The European Commission who propose the legislation that the MEP's vote on.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 December 2018, 10:34:53 am
Quote
You can't vote either in or out the unelected members of The European Commission who propose the legislation that the MEP's vote on.
You can't vote for the Civil Servants who propose, write and implement the UK legislation that UK members of Parliament vote on. Who do you think prepared the Withdrawal Bill? MPs just sign stuff off.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 December 2018, 11:02:47 am

MPs just sign stuff off.


Nonsense.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 December 2018, 11:10:55 am

MPs just sign stuff off.


In that case they can just sign off Brexit ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 December 2018, 12:07:08 pm
Quote
MPs just sign stuff off.Nonsense.
Been there, done it. I think you're over estimating the abilities of our 'leaders'  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 December 2018, 12:46:16 pm
You've been an MP?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 December 2018, 01:00:08 pm
Quote
You've been an MP?
No. It was either become a blood donor or join the Young Conservatives  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 December 2018, 01:11:32 pm
 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 December 2018, 01:50:12 pm
Quote
You can't vote either in or out the unelected members of The European Commission who propose the legislation that the MEP's vote on.
You can't vote for the Civil Servants who propose, write and implement the UK legislation that UK members of Parliament vote on. Who do you think prepared the Withdrawal Bill? MPs just sign stuff off.
That's another thing, I have been watching the BBC doc about the foreign office and got the distinct that all the civil servants - permanent secretaries - ambassadors, all want to stay in the EU and therefore maintain the status quo keeping themselves in a cushy little job with nice pensions. All out of the direct gaze of the public.
Politicians however need to have one eye on what the voters think         
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 07 December 2018, 02:45:51 pm
I never had any objection to free movement within the EU. Its all those that get in from outside, the spongers, the thieves, the disease carriers, the terrorists, those that have abandoned their wives and children, that get here, are declared illegal and disappear to work in the black economy, then want to change our society to reflect their interests. In general, I found those from Poland/Chez republic very well mannered, polite and good workers
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 December 2018, 03:50:33 pm
Quote
That's another thing, I have been watching the BBC doc about the foreign office and got the distinct that all the civil servants - permanent secretaries - ambassadors, all want to stay in the EU and therefore maintain the status quo keeping themselves in a cushy little job with nice pensions. All out of the direct gaze of the public.Politicians however need to have one eye on what the voters think         

I've been watching it too. Another way of looking at it is that ministers come and go (especially with this lot), and don't care what mess they leave. Just look at Boris. And of course they've got their private sector interests to keep them cosy. Civil Servants want continuity and stability, because they will have to clear the mess up.
BTW MPs get better pensions than Civil Servants, and dear Nigel Farage will be getting a better pension than both.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 December 2018, 05:44:49 pm
 
Quote
You can't vote either in or out the unelected members of The European Commission who propose the legislation that the MEP's vote on.

You can’t vote in or out your Prime Minister.  You can’t vote in or out government ministers.  So by your logic our government and our PM are unelected.
 
Quote
I never had any objection to free movement within the EU.

As I said before - Note also that under directive 2004/38 EU migrants only have a right to residence in a member state for 3 months.  After that they need to have one of three things in order to continue to stay – A job – A job lined up – or be able to demonstrate that they have the means to support themselves. 
 
 So we already have the means to control EU movement.  Freedom of movement is a non-issue.
 
Quote
Its all those that get in from outside, the spongers, the thieves, the disease carriers, the terrorists, those that have abandoned their wives and children, that get here, are declared illegal and disappear to work in the black economy, then want to change our society to reflect their interests.
Whilst I disagree most strongly at your general description of immigrants from outside the EU Agricola, I would point out again that leaving the EU will make no difference to non-EU immigration.   I would further point out that our illegal wars, proxy wars and weapons sales have contributed massively to UK immigration.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 December 2018, 05:49:15 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DtK9d3GXgAAg3VR.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 December 2018, 06:31:03 pm
Civil Servants want continuity and stability
Sir Humphrey Appleby :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 December 2018, 08:05:41 pm
Quote
Sir Humphrey Appleby

Versus Jim Hacker - I rest my case  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 09 December 2018, 09:50:01 pm
Setting aside any in or out bias. I am wondering if Mays plan will actually be voted down, all the talk about the maths and numbers doth speak to loudly me think  and I wonder if members are saying they will vote it down but actually have no plans to. Or is number 10 over playing the against vote so that when there is an against vote - but not as overwhelming as being predicted it can be used as- and played as a victory.The problem with politicians is that they are all politicians.I think it should be like jury service and you are called up as a citizen and member of the public to do a stint in the commons.Look out the white paper on Fazers paying no road tax or insurance and free petrol when I do my turn.And then after that I will get a very nice rotating door job at Yam __________________ oh my god I have become an actual politician  :eek         
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 09 December 2018, 11:05:35 pm
There are clearly all sorts of tactics going on. If she thinks she is going to lose, she will have a plan B, but won't reveal until she has lost. I can't see how she can get her deal through. With all the opposition parties voting against (for various reasons) + the DUP + both the Tory Remainers and the Tory Hard Brexiteers, it's an impossibility. I can't see many being persuaded at the last minute. We'll know plan B by Wednesday.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 10 December 2018, 08:38:51 am
Worst case scenario for me is that we have a re run of the brexit vote and we end up remaining. The EU more or less forced Ireland and Denmark to re-run elections as they didn't get the result they wanted.
That's my and others peoples biggest criticism of the EU- it's fundamentally undemocratic. Forget the racist xenophobia and the economic downturn rhetoric it's all a smokescreen. The UK is a tolerant society and still will be after brexit. I'm not sure it's the same in other places, fascism is on the rise- we need to be on our guard. Also, there are plenty of countries in the EU who have economies that are tanking- PIGS- Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. They don't want us to leave in case others do similar. This cartel has had it's day imho.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 10 December 2018, 02:20:54 pm
Worst case scenario for me is that we have a re run of the brexit vote and we end up remaining. The EU more or less forced Ireland and Denmark to re-run elections as they didn't get the result they wanted.
That's my and others peoples biggest criticism of the EU- it's fundamentally undemocratic. Forget the racist xenophobia and the economic downturn rhetoric it's all a smokescreen. The UK is a tolerant society and still will be after brexit. I'm not sure it's the same in other places, fascism is on the rise- we need to be on our guard. Also, there are plenty of countries in the EU who have economies that are tanking- PIGS- Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. They don't want us to leave in case others do similar. This cartel has had it's day imho.


 :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 December 2018, 04:02:56 pm

We'll know plan B by Wednesday.


...or even by Monday ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 December 2018, 04:13:45 pm
Plan? What plan....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 December 2018, 04:51:59 pm

Plan? What plan....


Just watching Parliament Live.


Here's the Remain MP's plan for uniting a deeply divided nation...keep voting until the result is Remain :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 December 2018, 04:58:16 pm

Plan? What plan....


She's postponed tomorrow's vote while she goes back to The EU to appeal to them to be a bit more reasonable. Good luck with that one.


Bring on the No Deal :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 10 December 2018, 05:10:07 pm
Worst case scenario for me is that we have a re run of the brexit vote and we end up remaining. The EU more or less forced Ireland and Denmark to re-run elections as they didn't get the result they wanted.
That's my and others peoples biggest criticism of the EU- it's fundamentally undemocratic. Forget the racist xenophobia and the economic downturn rhetoric it's all a smokescreen. The UK is a tolerant society and still will be after brexit. I'm not sure it's the same in other places, fascism is on the rise- we need to be on our guard. Also, there are plenty of countries in the EU who have economies that are tanking- PIGS- Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. They don't want us to leave in case others do similar. This cartel has had it's day imho.

excellent post :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 December 2018, 05:32:30 pm

Worst case scenario for me is that we have a re run of the brexit vote and we end up remaining. The EU more or less forced Ireland and Denmark to re-run elections as they didn't get the result they wanted.
That's my and others peoples biggest criticism of the EU- it's fundamentally undemocratic. Forget the racist xenophobia and the economic downturn rhetoric it's all a smokescreen. The UK is a tolerant society and still will be after brexit. I'm not sure it's the same in other places, fascism is on the rise- we need to be on our guard. Also, there are plenty of countries in the EU who have economies that are tanking- PIGS- Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain. They don't want us to leave in case others do similar. This cartel has had it's day imho.

excellent post :thumbup


+1 :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 December 2018, 06:14:37 pm
Amazing that this morning her ministers were saying that there would be a vote tomorrow.
Yes good luck on renegotiating with Europe (particularly the Irish). Even if she does, she's still got to get it through Parliament.
Bring on the People's Vote (version 2).

Meanwhile the £ goes down, down, down....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 December 2018, 06:21:02 pm
Woman who keeps changing her mind refuses to give UK chance to change its mind......
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 10 December 2018, 07:30:31 pm
She will get thrown back in the channel just like Cam-moron did when he went cap in hand to ask for some scraps to try and prevent a referendum in the first place. Given that and the way the UK has been treated during the negotiations.These remainers that say people voted leave to kick the political class ok then the leavers have now got even more reason to kick. For 18 months leavers have been called racist, wanglangers, stupid, thick, old, gamon, how do you remainers think the leavers will react to all of that abuse - I say bring it on lets do it again. But if we do it again and a no deal (leave on WTO ) is not on the ballot along with no brexit then I will be opening a yellow vest shop.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 December 2018, 07:41:26 pm

Woman who keeps changing her mind


She's in good company. Lots of those MP's now trying to reverse Brexit voted for both the referendum and to trigger Article 50.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 December 2018, 08:05:33 pm
Quote
For 18 months leavers have been called racist, wanglangers, stupid, thick, old, gamon, how do you remainers think the leavers will react to all of that abuse - I say bring it on lets do it again. But if we do it again and a no deal (leave on WTO ) is not on the ballot along with no brexit then I will be opening a yellow vest shop.
For 18 months Remainers have been given just as much abuse. I totally agree, bring it on with only  No Deal /No Brexit on the paper. I think we both agree May's deal, and particularly her tactics for promoting it are shocking.  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 10 December 2018, 08:06:55 pm
She will get thrown back in the channel just like Cam-moron did when he went cap in hand to ask for some scraps to try and prevent a referendum in the first place. Given that and the way the UK has been treated during the negotiations.These remainers that say people voted leave to kick the political class ok then the leavers have now got even more reason to kick. For 18 months leavers have been called racist, wanglangers, stupid, thick, old, gamon, how do you remainers think the leavers will react to all of that abuse - I say bring it on lets do it again. But if we do it again and a no deal (leave on WTO ) is not on the ballot along with no brexit then I will be opening a yellow vest shop.

another good post. And if the remainers get their way and our political class bottle it completely and take us crawling back to the EU on our hands and knees, how do They honestly think we would get treated from that point on? 
All we would need then s another election and Corbyn getting in and we would have the full set.
A nation belittled and treated with contempt by the rest of Europe, led by a man who despises it and its people even more than they do.
bring it on..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 December 2018, 08:31:09 pm

I totally agree, bring it on with only  No Deal /No Brexit on the paper.


I totally disagree. If we can't achieve a satisfactory deal, then it's leave with No Deal.


No second referendum.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 December 2018, 10:01:52 pm
But that won't happen. Parliament will reject it. The only alternative will be to cancel Article 50.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 December 2018, 10:34:46 pm

It's difficult to predict what can or will happen at the moment, the situation is changing fast now.


The country is totally divided on the issue, but if you're interested in these things you can't say it's not more than a little compelling to observe whichever way you lean on the matter :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 10 December 2018, 10:58:51 pm

For 18 months Remainers have been given just as much abuse. I totally agree, bring it on with only  No Deal /No Brexit on the paper. 
Here are the words been used just on this thread to describe those people who voted leave 
 Stupid
 English fools
Wanglanders
Racist
War mongers
Loonies
Fruitcakes
Liars
Silly
Pig headed
Bonkers
Crazy
Thick
Excitable
Selfish
Dinosaurs
Waffle
Small children
Nobs
Looney toons
Clueless
Xenophobic
Islamophobic
Way to go - remainers, great way to persuade leave voters to change their mind. People do not liked being talked down to by you or the EU and it will be reflected so in a vote.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 December 2018, 11:42:00 pm
Quote
It's difficult to predict what can or will happen at the moment, the situation is changing fast now.
The country is totally divided on the issue, but if you're interested in these things you can't say it's not more than a little compelling to observe whichever way you lean on the matter

Totally agree. Watching the news tonight in astonishment. Politicians twisting and turning. Hilarious reaction to minister Alan Duncan told by Kuenssberg that May had cancelled the vote. Not often seen a politician lost for words.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 December 2018, 11:54:26 pm
Quote
Way to go - remainers, great way to persuade leave voters to change their mind. People do not liked being talked down to by you or the EU and it will be reflected so in a vote.
The only person on here accused of being racist was VNA  :rolleyes  and even that was a joke
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Robbie8666 on 11 December 2018, 07:27:59 am

For 18 months Remainers have been given just as much abuse. I totally agree, bring it on with only  No Deal /No Brexit on the paper. 
Here are the words been used just on this thread to describe those people who voted leave 
 Stupid
 English fools
Wanglanders
Racist
War mongers
Loonies
Fruitcakes
Liars
Silly
Pig headed
Bonkers
Crazy
Thick
Excitable
Selfish
Dinosaurs
Waffle
Small children
Nobs
Looney toons
Clueless
Xenophobic
Islamophobic
Way to go - remainers, great way to persuade leave voters to change their mind. People do not liked being talked down to by you or the EU and it will be reflected so in a vote.

I got 19/23 :) guess which way I voted hahaha
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 December 2018, 09:26:23 am

S

I got 19/23 :) guess which way I voted hahaha


Hmmm that's really helped Leave's cause no end :rolleyes .

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 December 2018, 09:30:33 am

Usually you hear Donald Tusk's surname pronounced 'Toosk'.


In The Commons yesterday one of the MP's kept pronouncing it as it looks, Ie as in elephants tusk.


I bet he hates that :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 11 December 2018, 09:35:29 am
I always pronounce Nigel's name as Faraaarge. Makes him sound more foreign  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 December 2018, 10:20:01 am

One of the features writers on The Daily Mail is Alice Smellie. You'd have to change that wouldn't you?!. I can just imagine all the sniggering when asked...'Surname please?'.


Cue a totally unrelated, 'trendy', right-on, left wing dig about The Mail :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 December 2018, 10:27:16 am
...apologies if there's any Smellies on here by the way ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 11 December 2018, 11:47:05 am
Found on F/Book
https://www.facebook.com/uniladmag/videos/512950682524090/UzpfSTEwMDAwMTg5Njk3MzM5OToxOTY5NzU4MzUzMzI2MTgy/?multi_permalinks=1969012416734109&notif_id=1544442451016594&notif_t=group_highlights (https://www.facebook.com/uniladmag/videos/512950682524090/UzpfSTEwMDAwMTg5Njk3MzM5OToxOTY5NzU4MzUzMzI2MTgy/?multi_permalinks=1969012416734109&notif_id=1544442451016594&notif_t=group_highlights)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 11 December 2018, 11:53:03 am
Quote
Way to go - remainers, great way to persuade leave voters to change their mind. People do not liked being talked down to by you or the EU and it will be reflected so in a vote.

The only person on here accused of being racist was VNA  :rolleyes  and even that was a joke


Than let me remind you.


On your other point, obviously true, but reminds me of a phrase I've seen quoted - '' Not all Brexiteers are racist, but all racists are Brexiteers ''

Oh and talking of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists; 
So it’s now fruitcakes loonies and racists.  I think we can drop the closet bit. :lol
 


Quote
The venue holds 2000 and it was approximately 2 thirds full apparently.It was part of a tour of different venues and it was ticketed. I'd like to see how many remoaners had turned up to the London march if they'd had to pay to get in  .Besides which you're always going to attract more remoaners to these things. They've more of a gripe and they desperately want to reverse the democratic decision.


So 666 (that's ominous isn't it) didn't turn up. Or they were probably out busy setting fire to mosques or something....
And a reminder of a couple of propaganda posters for you.

(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24678.0;attach=34056;image)(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24678.0;attach=33801;image)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 11 December 2018, 12:22:46 pm
Quote
One of the features writers on The Daily Mail is Alice Smellie. You'd have to change that wouldn't you?!. I can just imagine all the sniggering when asked...'Surname please?'.
I always fancied Carol Smillie. Is that close enough? :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 December 2018, 12:25:42 pm


I always fancied Carol Smillie.


I still do :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 11 December 2018, 12:28:53 pm
Quote
Than let me remind you.
Don't need reminding, and nobody on here has (seriously) been accused. As I said, I've not yet met a racist who voted Remain, but I've met and know lots of Brexiteers who are most certainly not racist.
I think the fact that  UKIP (the only party promoting Leave pre referendum) has appointed Stephen Yaxley Lennon (a known racist) as an advisor, indicates their latest direction.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 December 2018, 01:50:08 pm
That's finished them as far as I'm concerned. Beyond stupidity. It's almost unbelievable. Of all the people to appoint. You really couldn't make it up. Is this new leader some sort of plant, like a double-agent, working to destroy the party from inside out?. Madness.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 11 December 2018, 02:58:35 pm
What I am finding funny is the self - important news presenters getting ratty about being drowned out by the demonstrators now that they have set up their outdoor studio on collage green, they are attracting every kind of protest you can think of and not just brexit ones.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 11 December 2018, 03:47:04 pm
I think since Farage stood down it's been a disaster. A succession of unprofessional leaders. Not a patch on him. I disagree with him, but I admire him.
As to the demonstrators in Parliament Square, hilarious to see the longer and longer poles they are using to get their placards in shot  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 11 December 2018, 04:07:54 pm
I think since Farage stood down it's been a disaster. A succession of unprofessional leaders. Not a patch on him. I disagree with him, but I admire him.
As to the demonstrators in Parliament Square, hilarious to see the longer and longer poles they are using to get their placards in shot  :lol
I think they have clearly studied the live transmissions and get the length and position just right. I want to see Kay Burliegh loose it and go down there and smack someone (she loves herself)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 11 December 2018, 04:24:36 pm
Like yourselves I used to think Tommy Robinson was linked to racism but then I educated myself and stopped believing the propaganda and realised in fact it's nothing to do with racism. It's about an extreme ideology that belongs in the Stone Age that is the purge of modern society and a danger to our children's innocence and safety.
But again, it's the old racist label that prevents anyone wanting to be seen to be associated or supportive of a morally right cause.
The reason they want him silenced goes much deeper than you can ever imagine.
If you've ever heard of John Wedger, the police whistleblower, you may understand.
If you want to understand what really is going on please take some time to watch these two links.
The first is a speech at Oxford university where Tommy explains how the EDL was formed and why.
A movement he has distanced himself from after it was hijacked by right wing extremists which of course some were probably racists.
I'm not saying I agree with everything but the fact remains that there is an Islamic culture problem in this country that needs to be open for discussion so that it can be addressed.
Putting reporting bans on anything the establishment doesn't want the public to know just goes to show how information managed we all are in this country.
The second is the international tribunal where John Wedger lays bare the complete corruption that is our establishment and police service.
Watch and make your own minds up before you start screaming racist at everything and everyone you don't agree with or understand.


Sorry... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvUXxw_USGs#)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTklfGY3fmk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTklfGY3fmk)


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 11 December 2018, 05:22:18 pm
I think since Farage stood down it's been a disaster. A succession of unprofessional leaders. Not a patch on him. I disagree with him, but I admire him.
As to the demonstrators in Parliament Square, hilarious to see the longer and longer poles they are using to get their placards in shot  :lol


Theres something to admire a bout a man whouses his own money for a cause he passionately belives in.


I think his loss from the stage has highlighted the complete absence from our political scene of Statesmen. There are none now. The Labour Party is not what is once was, taken over by the middle classes and just waiting the opportunity to rid itself of its current leader, whence all the old Blairites will crawl out from under the stones. You mark my words. Perhaps the loss of statesmen can be attributed to our membership of the Eu, since we have become just one of a club twenty eight on the world stage, unable to shape our own destiny, control our own economy, control our own borders. If it is to be a hard Brexit, then bring it on, the British people have faced hard times before. If it is to be a hard Brexit, then let us do our utmost to ensure that its as hard as it can be for those who have sought to put us at a disadvantage for expressing a desire to leave their organisation. The next time the Europeans need our help to save them from themselves, we should consider turning away and maintaining our links and relations with those free nations who share our views, our standards, our history. The world is bigger than the EU, evolving, nations emerging. The Chinese recognise it, filling spaces we vacated. We face challenges in the not too distant future as the climate may be changing with adverse impacts affecting our daily lives. Water companies will need to invest significant sums to ensure continuity of supplies nationwide, we may require nationalisation as the privatised companies are unlikely to be willing to divert profits to do so. Similar action may well be required in the power generation field. The EU does not approve of state owned enterprises, seeing them as distorting internal markets. Its unlikely the Prime Minister will be able to offer Parliament enough to secure the current Brexit Agreement in January, a second referendum is likely to create unrest on the streets unseen since the thirties. A hard Brexit now appears the likely outcome
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 December 2018, 05:28:57 pm
I think since Farage stood down it's been a disaster. A succession of unprofessional leaders. Not a patch on him. I disagree with him, but I admire him.
As to the demonstrators in Parliament Square, hilarious to see the longer and longer poles they are using to get their placards in shot  :lol


Theres something to admire a bout a man whouses his own money for a cause he passionately belives in.


I think his loss from the stage has highlighted the complete absence from our political scene of Statesmen. There are none now. The Labour Party is not what is once was, taken over by the middle classes and just waiting the opportunity to rid itself of its current leader, whence all the old Blairites will crawl out from under the stones. You mark my words. Perhaps the loss of statesmen can be attributed to our membership of the Eu, since we have become just one of a club twenty eight on the world stage, unable to shape our own destiny, control our own economy, control our own borders. If it is to be a hard Brexit, then bring it on, the British people have faced hard times before. If it is to be a hard Brexit, then let us do our utmost to ensure that its as hard as it can be for those who have sought to put us at a disadvantage for expressing a desire to leave their organisation. The next time the Europeans need our help to save them from themselves, we should consider turning away and maintaining our links and relations with those free nations who share our views, our standards, our history. The world is bigger than the EU, evolving, nations emerging. The Chinese recognise it, filling spaces we vacated. We face challenges in the not too distant future as the climate may be changing with adverse impacts affecting our daily lives. Water companies will need to invest significant sums to ensure continuity of supplies nationwide, we may require nationalisation as the privatised companies are unlikely to be willing to divert profits to do so. Similar action may well be required in the power generation field. The EU does not approve of state owned enterprises, seeing them as distorting internal markets. Its unlikely the Prime Minister will be able to offer Parliament enough to secure the current Brexit Agreement in January, a second referendum is likely to create unrest on the streets unseen since the thirties. A hard Brexit now appears the likely outcome
Good post.
No concessions Mrs May can secure from the EU (and she'll be lucky to get anything at all) will ever be enough for the fanatical Remainers. Only a complete reversal of Brexit will satisfy them.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 December 2018, 06:02:04 pm
What I am finding funny is the self - important news presenters getting ratty about being drowned out by the demonstrators now that they have set up their outdoor studio on collage green, they are attracting every kind of protest you can think of and not just brexit ones.
The only ones I ever hear over Huw Edwards are Remainiacs demanding Brexit be overturned. I suspect that's exactly why the BBC are interviewing out there.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 December 2018, 06:35:43 pm
Quote
Oh and talking of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists;
So it’s now fruitcakes loonies and racists.  I think we can drop the closet bit. :lol

Well first of all you are again quoting me out of context.  The context is;
Quote
Well has anybody seen Nigel recently?  I couldn’t believe it yesterday when I saw the short report on the BBC concerning his resignation from UKIP.  Apparently over some little prick called Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon being taken on by UKIP as an ‘advisor’.
Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon isn’t just a mere repugnant racist, but he is in fact a fascist.  The fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists is a well known quote from David Cameron.  So yes UKIP is out of the closet, and I’m afraid I fail to see what is racist about calling racists racist.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 December 2018, 07:06:40 pm
 
Quote
A nation belittled and treated with contempt by the rest of Europe
Oh dear oh dear, the poor old UK being bullied by the other 27.   Yup they have all united together to bully us.  It’s all their fault.


 
Nothing to do with us, as one of the main architects of the EU, suddenly spitting the dummy out and wanting to walk away.  And of course, we are demanding no penalty and the fully benefits of the EU whilst tearing up our contribution.  The UK in short wants to have it’s cake and eat it.


The whole thing is embarrassing.  The UK is making a fool of itself on the European and international stage.  We are fast becoming a joke, and a joke with no government.


 As for the options.  Well one of the options being touted is the Norway deal, which we are told is still on the table - European Free Trade Association (Efta).  But it’s looking increasingly unlikely – Norway is looking to find a way of blocking us.


According to Heidi Nordby Lunde, a leading Norwegian politican, allowing Britain into a Norway style deal with the EU is like having an
Quote
“abusive partner spiking the drinks and inviting them to a Christmas party”. 
She goes on to say that it isn’t in Norway’s interest to have Britain as partners in their deal;
Quote
“I think you would mess it all up for us, the way you have messed it all up for yourselves”
So it’s not just the EU that is loosing it patience with us.  A great many countries round the globe think we have lost the plot – and the truth is we have.  We are seen as the petty little villain no-one wants to be in the same room with. 



Meanwhile Tory MP Priti Patel suggested that reports that there could be food shortages in Ireland come a NO DEAL BREXIT should have been used a leverage against Dublin during negotiations over the backstop.  How low can we sink?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 December 2018, 07:10:10 pm
Ach time fae some funnies;
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuFATw6WkAE_MzH.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 December 2018, 07:10:56 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuEy4C-W4AAcEra.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 11 December 2018, 11:02:10 pm
Quote
A nation belittled and treated with contempt by the rest of Europe

Oh dear oh dear, the poor old UK being bullied by the other 27.   Yup they have all united together to bully us.  It’s all their fault.


I didn't once use the word bully.
you did. Twice.
freudian slip mate?



 



 

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 12:17:41 am
Farage is at least an honourable man. When he got what he campaigned for he stood down.
Stephen Waxy-Lemon is a racist criminal c*nt who should be locked up and the key thrown away.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 December 2018, 09:15:32 am

Confidence vote in May's leadership tonight.


NO second referendum.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 10:22:13 am
.... and no exit at the end of March either, if they have to elect a new leader.
Here's the latest odds :lol

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 10:51:34 am

Tory Brexiters demand new leadership vote insisting ‘the will of the MPs’ has changed since 2016.


A spokesperson for the 1922 committee said, “The last vote was over two years ago, and a lot has changed in that time. We voted at the time for what we thought was going to happen, but it hasn’t turned out that way – so we get to change our minds and vote again. That’s how democracy works you see. Theresa promised us things that in hindsight were never deliverable, and that is an affront to the democratic principles we all work under in parliament. She must be held accountable, and those of us that fell for her mistruths should be given the opportunity to change our minds. Theresa must go. If our MPs are unable to change their minds, then this nation ceases to be a democracy.”


 :rollin



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 December 2018, 11:29:08 am

I disagree with them holding this no-confidence vote. She should be allowed to continue her talks re the deal without all this distraction. If the deal fails, then No Deal it is :) . If that's made perfectly clear to the EU it should focus their minds a little. They have a habit of making last minute deals and resolutions.

NO second referendum.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 11:49:15 am
The EU hold all the cards. They are laughing at us.
Theresa was meant to be meeting Leo Varadkar today to discuss the backstop and border. Meeting now cancelled.
Yet another example of Tories putting their party above the interests of the country.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 December 2018, 12:09:25 pm

Of course The Labour Party never put party before country do they? :lol .


I hope she wins by a clear margin tonight, then she can carry on where she left off tomorrow.


What time is the vote?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 12 December 2018, 12:14:12 pm

Stephen Waxy-Lemon is a racist criminal c*nt who should be locked up and the key thrown away.
That's a genius idea.
So without any grounds, you would illegally imprison  him indefinitely.
So, tell me what despicable crime has he committed to get such a sentence ?
I'm sure you have proof of his racism or are you just repeating the rhetoric of the great unwashed and MSM.
Maybe speaking the truth is a crime in your books.
This is actually an interesting social experiment.
Perhaps the Fascist is closer to home than you thought. :rollin


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 01:17:38 pm
How about convicted of mortgage fraud. How about convicted of travelling on a false passport. How about the pending prosecution for contempt of court.
He's scum.
I suggest again, you look up the definition of 'fascist'.


Oh and your very small writing just about sums up what you've said  :lol

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 01:22:56 pm
Quote
I hope she wins by a clear margin tonight, then she can carry on where she left off tomorrow.What time is the vote?.

So do I. 6-8, result by 9
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 12 December 2018, 02:20:40 pm
How about convicted of mortgage fraud. How about convicted of travelling on a false passport. How about the pending prosecution for contempt of court.
He's scum.
I suggest again, you look up the definition of 'fascist'.


Oh and your very small writing just about sums up what you've said  :lol

 Not everything is black and white and not everything you hear is necessarily true.
Let's get the facts right before you just repeat stuff.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIlPT87KzDk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIlPT87KzDk)





Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 02:39:56 pm
Yeah yeah whatever.........  :rolleyes


Just for your information, I ate out at a halal restaurant last night, and I'm still alive.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 02:51:40 pm
Quote
Of course The Labour Party never put party before country do they?

No, its not their turn  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 December 2018, 04:39:15 pm
Quote
Of course The Labour Party never put party before country do they?

No, its not their turn  ;)

Thank foc for that :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 December 2018, 04:44:10 pm
The EU hold all the cards. They are laughing at us.
I should think they are, the money they've had out of us :rolleyes .
They'd be crying if we came out properly.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 December 2018, 05:32:23 pm
Quote
How about convicted of mortgage fraud. How about convicted of travelling on a false passport. How about the pending prosecution for contempt of court.
He's scum.
I suggest again, you look up the definition of 'fascist'.
Indeed.
 
Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon,
Convictions for drugs offenses and assault. 
Jailed in 2005 for assaulting an off-duty policeman.
Convicted in 2011 of leading a brawl involving 100 ‘football fans’.
2012 held on the charge of having entered the United States illegally on a false passport and sentenced to 10mnths in the UK.
2012 sentenced to 18mnths for mortgage fraud.
Member of the BNP.
Founding member of the fascist EDF.
 He is a violent, racist, fascist thieving piece of shit.  Absolute utter foccing scum.

 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 December 2018, 06:08:13 pm
Oh I should mention that Stephen Christopher Yaxley's pseudonym is taken from a prominent member of the "Men In Gear" (MIG) football hooligan crew, which follows Luton Town Football Club.[16] The member named Tommy Robinson wrote two books about his 25 years of hooliganism.
Says it all really.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 December 2018, 06:25:40 pm
Yeah I'd heard it was taken from a football yob. Why though, and what's the significance of this particular one?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 06:42:32 pm
Quote
Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon,Convictions for drugs offenses and assault.  Jailed in 2005 for assaulting an off-duty policeman.Convicted in 2011 of leading a brawl involving 100 ‘football fans’.2012 held on the charge of having entered the United States illegally on a false passport and sentenced to 10mnths in the UK.2012 sentenced to 18mnths for mortgage fraud.Member of the BNP.Founding member of the fascist EDF. He is a violent, racist, fascist thieving piece of shit.  Absolute utter foccing scum

I believe he has YouTube videos explaining all these away....  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 12 December 2018, 07:49:58 pm
Waxy-Lemon  :lol that is funny though.
 But the establishment has for a long time wanted him out of the picture they don't like it when people speak an unauthorized narrative that "they" think will harm cohesion.(stand by fazersharp for the reply "like -blah-blah"--- pick an extreme example to make a one off point  :z :z :z :z :z ) 
If you believe half the stuff you are told by the establishment left or right then good for you - carry on watching I'm a celebrity and have a nice life.
FYI I don't believe in just about anything I am told by the political class.I have come to my conclusions through my own experience and my judgment has seen me well for the last x- number of years. (that and BEER)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 12 December 2018, 07:56:38 pm
Waxy-Lemon  :lol that is funny though.
 But the establishment has for a long time wanted him out of the picture they don't like it when people speak an unauthorized narrative that "they" think will harm cohesion.(stand by fazersharp for the reply "like -blah-blah"--- pick an extreme example to make a one off point  :z :z :z :z :z ) 
If you believe half the stuff you are told by the establishment then good for you - carry on watching I'm a celebrity and have a nice life.
FYI I don't believe in just about anything I am told by the political class.I have come to my conclusions through my own experience and my judgment has seen me well for the last x- number of years. (that and BEER)


But mostly beer
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 08:00:50 pm
Um I wouldn't watch 'Celebrity' if you paid me, and I'm quite capable of spotting what is and isn't the truth.
He is guilty by his own actions, and is a racist violent thug who is intent on creating division where it doesn't exist. You are right though, society doesn't want them.
Those who try to defend him are either deluded or his supporters.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 12 December 2018, 08:09:01 pm
I am neither deluded or a supporter.
I don't judge a man by his past. It's what they do at the present which counts.
No one ever talks about the charity work or help for homeless veterans he's involved with.
Like I said, I don't agree with everything which includes any involvement with BNP or EDL (although I understand why it was formed) or football hooliganism but someone has got to look out for vulnerable underage children and the threat extremists pose to them,
Something he's been trying to do for many years.
This is the reason I won't jump on the bash Tommy bandwagon.

A lot of people have got skeletons in the cupboard but having such a high profile it's inevitable these are going to be brought up and used against you.

The fact remains is you would see this man locked up indefinitely, that's just an extreme and inhumane statement and would be a worse crime than anything he's ever done.
Think about that, you'd lock him up forever without just cause and throw away the key you said
That's just a stupid thing to say from a supposed liberal minded member of society.
God help anyone who's made mistakes in the past if everyone thought like you.


You say there is no division. That statement couldn't be further from the truth.
Remember, we are not talking about peaceful Muslims here.
These are radical extremists, the division couldn't be any further apart.














Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 December 2018, 08:19:11 pm
Votings closed. She's got it in the bag ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 December 2018, 09:05:08 pm
May wins. 200 votes for, 117 against.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 09:25:34 pm
Quote
You say there is no division. That statement couldn't be further from the truth.Remember, we are not talking about peaceful Muslims here.These are radical extremists, the division couldn't be any further apart.



So you've changed it from 'he's innocent' to 'it's all behind him'. I'll put you down as deluded then.
There are radical right wing extremists. Those who killed Jo Cox and Makram Ali were inspired by Yaxley - Lennon and his supporters.


Actually, I'm not even going to debate this piece of shit with you.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 09:28:56 pm
Quote
May wins. 200 votes for, 117 against.
Just seen Rees - Mogg on the telly. Not much really changes. We've just lost another day.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 12 December 2018, 09:36:16 pm
Um I wouldn't watch 'Celebrity' if you paid me,
Then indeed you have proved yourself to be part of the champagne socialist elite ------------ I would totally watch it it you paid me.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 12 December 2018, 09:39:47 pm
Um I wouldn't watch 'Celebrity' if you paid me,
Then indeed you have proved yourself to be part of the champagne socialist elite ------------ I would totally watch it it you paid me.
But on the other hand I would pay to see Mogg get angry. That man dose not blink. If only Moggy was more faragey and knocked some heads together. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 December 2018, 09:40:41 pm
Quote
I am neither deluded or a supporter.
I don't judge a man by his past. It's what they do at the present which counts.
No one ever talks about the charity work or help for homeless veterans he's involved with.
Like I said, I don't agree with everything which includes any involvement with BNP or EDL (although I understand why it was formed) or football hooliganism but someone has got to look out for vulnerable underage children and the threat extremists pose to them,
Something he's been trying to do for many years.
This is the reason I won't jump on the bash Tommy bandwagon.

A lot of people have got skeletons in the cupboard but having such a high profile it's inevitable these are going to be brought up and used against you.

The fact remains is you would see this man locked up indefinitely, that's just an extreme and inhumane statement and would be a worse crime than anything he's ever done.
Think about that, you'd lock him up forever without just cause and throw away the key you said
That's just a stupid thing to say from a supposed liberal minded member of society.
God help anyone who's made mistakes in the past if everyone thought like you.


You say there is no division. That statement couldn't be further from the truth.
Remember, we are not talking about peaceful Muslims here.
These are radical extremists, the division couldn't be any further apart.
Fuck him he's scum.
And fuck knows what the Oxford Union were thinking of.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 December 2018, 10:04:14 pm
Quote
May wins. 200 votes for, 117 against.
Just seen Rees - Mogg on the telly. Not much really changes. We've just lost another day.

Yep a waste of everyones time really :\
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 December 2018, 10:18:45 pm
Quote
Then indeed you have proved yourself to be part of the champagne socialist elite ------------ I would totally watch it it you paid me.
No, you're just poor. Probably lost your last 30 bob in a card game scam  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 December 2018, 10:31:31 pm
Quote
Then indeed you have proved yourself to be part of the champagne socialist elite ------------ I would totally watch it it you paid me.
I’m all for champagne socialism.  Everybody should have the right to drink champagne every day! :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 December 2018, 10:36:17 pm
 As for Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon, it’s interesting to note that your great man continues to be proudly known by his pseudonym Tommy Robinson, and in doing so he celebrates thuggery and violence.


 
Dazza, you might also want to consider that your Great Grandfather fought to free us from people like Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 December 2018, 10:37:34 pm
Time fae a funny,
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuPcB7PX4AIvoBT.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 12 December 2018, 10:39:00 pm
Actually,  he was known as a Tommy too  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 13 December 2018, 06:03:46 am

Fuck him he's scum.
And fuck knows what the Oxford Union were thinking of.
Well, apparently that's how some people make informed opinions by sitting quietly and listening to the other side of the story. Who'd have thought it.
Interesting to hear the hecklers outside calling him a fascist and racist and trying their best to silence him.
Guess they already had their opinions of him based on what they'd been told or read.
I'll leave this touchy subject alone now but will say this.
It's funny how yet again anyone with a different view point gets called names, I think deluded was the latest one.
We're all entitled to have our own opinions and view points and given the choice I would rather be one of the people sitting quietly inside listening than the other group outside shouting abuse.
Give everyone a chance I say and don't be too quick to judge.
I said before, nothing is ever black and white. There are many shades of grey in between.


And as for my Great Grandad and Grandad fighting against people like Tommy Robinson or Stephen Laxley Lennon or what ever his name is.
He was never the enemy.
The real enemy are the establishment and police involved in the cover up of prolific sex trafficking of vulnerable teenagers and children and those who have set out to destroy John  Wedger.... Time  will tell it's probably the same people that are responsible for wanting to silence TR.







Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 December 2018, 07:47:24 am

If The EU are at all reasonable or sensible they'll try to accommodate Mrs May's requirements to give her deal a chance of getting through Parliament now.


I don't hold out much hope of that though :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 December 2018, 10:25:40 am
Quote
If The EU are at all reasonable or sensible they'll try to accommodate Mrs May's requirements to give her deal a chance of getting through Parliament now.
I don't hold out much hope of that though

I'm not sure what more they can do. According to the UK it's all about the 'backstop', which is just about putting off the exit. What the EU are saying is for the UK to ditch it unilaterally would cause a (later) 'no deal' /hard border exit, if that's what we want. It's totally up to the UK. Nothing for the EU to concede.
This is all about May trying to convince Parliament that there is something to be gained. The numbers still don't add up. When she goes back to Parliament after Xmas and fails to get her deal through, Labour will call for a no confidence vote. The DUP will have given up on her and she may well lose that. Article 50 postponed, General Election.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 December 2018, 10:28:00 am

Time fae a funny,
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuPcB7PX4AIvoBT.jpg)


Well get on with it then :rolleyes . We're still waiting fae the funny.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 December 2018, 10:42:44 am
OK I'll give it a go.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 December 2018, 11:01:33 am

That's Juncker's breakfast isn't it?. Well, minus the 'food' :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 December 2018, 11:05:59 am

I've got a good one...."This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide".
 :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 December 2018, 11:52:48 am
You've forgotten to add   ''....... if only we could work out what that is ''  :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 December 2018, 02:08:37 pm
Quote
Well get on with it then :rolleyes . We're still waiting fae the funny.
 
Perhaps you are having a sense of humour failure YamFazFan.
I’ll see if I can help;

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuTTSiVXcAADw3v.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 December 2018, 04:58:53 pm
Quote
Well get on with it then :rolleyes . We're still waiting fae the funny.
 
Perhaps you are having a sense of humour failure YamFazFan.
I’ll see if I can help;

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuTTSiVXcAADw3v.jpg)
No. Ta for trying, but it's still not revived my sense of humour :\ .
Try a funny from the other side. See if that works ;) .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 December 2018, 06:11:34 pm
Quote
No. Ta for trying, but it's still not revived my sense of humour ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/undecided.gif[/url]) .
Try a funny from the other side. See if that works ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url]) .

Well go on then........give us a laugth.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 December 2018, 06:12:31 pm
Meanwhile;

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuS3W5rX4AEoOe1.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 December 2018, 06:13:59 am

It's clear that The EU want May's deal to fail. They're hoping that there's going to be a second referendum and The UK goes crawling back to them with Its tail between its legs.


We should just come out with No Deal now.


NO second referendum.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 14 December 2018, 07:44:57 am

It's clear that The EU want May's deal to fail. They're hoping that there's going to be a second referendum and The UK goes crawling back to them with Its tail between its legs.


We should just come out with No Deal now.


NO second referendum.


Yes, time to call their bluff. If they've made it clear there is no more negotiation time to walk away, there's a lot that can happen between now and the 29th of March 2019.
May and her advisers need to learn how to play hardball with these Jokers.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 December 2018, 10:39:07 am

I see The Blair Creature is calling for a second referendum now. Bet Remain are glad they've got him on the team :lol .


Why do Remainers keep saying that Leavers didn't know what they were voting for?. They voted Remain. How would they know :rolleyes .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 December 2018, 12:11:40 pm
Because Remainers knew exactly what they were voting for. Unfortunately the question `Leave ' should have been amended to' Leave and then what?  '. It didn't say' Leave with no deal'. Parliament won't pass a No Deal exit however much people squeal.
The blame for this rejection is purely on May not the EU. She knew where they stood. It was just a delaying tactic to avoid the defeat in Parliament.
My prediction is still
1 Defeat for her deal in Parliament
2. Labour calls No Confidence vote in Parliament
3. She loses
4. Article 50 Postponed
All she's done is delay it until after the new year. Just watch.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 14 December 2018, 12:39:03 pm
As predicted they have thrown May back in the channel just like they did with Cam-moron and not only that they slapped her in the face as they pushed her.You cannot negotiate with these people while you have promised them 35b.
 NO DEAL we will leave on WTO rules and we negotiate from that position - they get NO 35b and if they want any of it then they will have to give us what we want for every £ of it. 

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 14 December 2018, 01:51:29 pm
Because Remainers knew exactly what they were voting for. Unfortunately the question `Leave ' should have been amended to' Leave and then what?  '. It didn't say' Leave with no deal'. Parliament won't pass a No Deal exit however much people squeal.
The blame for this rejection is purely on May not the EU. She knew where they stood. It was just a delaying tactic to avoid the defeat in Parliament.
My prediction is still
1 Defeat for her deal in Parliament
2. Labour calls No Confidence vote in Parliament
3. She loses
4. Article 50 Postponed
All she's done is delay it until after the new year. Just watch.

I disagree completely. We knew what we wanted just as much as remainers did. Your taking this whole argument back to "we voted to remain because we are clever. you voted to leave because you are stupid/racist etc etc". why don't you just say it straight out? BTW Most of us who voted to leave don't give a monkeys what it takes to get out. we voted to get out and thats pretty much it. Whatever my reasons, or anybody elses who voted to leave are, they are exactly that. My reasons. Ill stand by them whatever the outcome. Not because Im stupid/racist/xenophobic etc. But because I had a vote like everybody else, and I used it as I thought best.
Thats been one of the biggest differences between the remain/leave argument. Leavers have attacked the EU. Remainers have attacked Leavers. Its as though remainers have some sort of massive sense of self righteous entitlement to adopt the high ground. You should really look at how that worked out for the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 14 December 2018, 05:46:00 pm
Agree wholeheartedly with Ogri/fazersharp/yamfazfa/celticdog. Time to walk away. The EU seeks to see us as unsuccessful, as a warning to those other states who may at some point consider leaving. I we switch to WTO trade, then so be it. I voted out, not because I'm stupid and don't understand politics or economics, but because I believe it would be better for us as a nation. I still do.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 06:27:49 pm
 
Quote
My reasons. Ill stand by them whatever the outcome.
But like most other BREXITEERS you haven’t given any reasons.  I mean so far we have;
 
BREXITEER foccers reasons for leaving the EU are
1.        Day light running lights
2.       Curved bananas
3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather got shot in the leg by a German 100 years ago.
 


And at the end of the day this is still all about the Tories.  The referendum was offered on the basis of killing UKIP and wining an election.
I watched a bit of Question Time last night.  And what I saw was two Tory MP’s fighting with each other on the UK’s most popular politics programme.


Meanwhile May has just seemingly discovered that what she has been telling us all for the last fortnight is in fact true.  After over 2 years of negotiating a deal – she got a deal – 27 countries and May agreed it – and May told us this is the deal.  Yup it still is the deal.


Quote
I we switch to WTO trade, then so be it. I voted out, not because I'm stupid and don't understand politics or economics, but because I believe it would be better for us as a nation.
You believe it would be better?  In what way?  The Bank of England forecasts a financial crises worse than that of 2008 in the event of a NO DEAL BREXIT.  An economic crash.  A fall in GDP of around 8%.  7.5% rise in unemployment.


 
But then you can all spout on about a NO DEAL BREXIT all you want, when the reality is that parliament will act to stop it.  There are only 2 or 3 dozen MP’s that would entertain a NO DEAL BREXIT.  So forget NO DEAL – it will not happen.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 14 December 2018, 06:40:48 pm
Here is my prediction....


Scotland is going to break away from the mainland and drift up towards the Arctic ( where it belongs) and on certain nights, when atmospheric conditions are just right, you can just make out the squeaky little voice of VNA banging on about how thick all Brexiteers are whilst he's being haunted by my Great Grandad jabbing him in the arse with his bayonet.


Tommy Robinson is going to move up the ranks in UKIP and become prime minister.


And mtread is going to be sentenced to life imprisonment in solitary confinement without parole(effectively throwing away the key) for daring to suggest the new facist prime minister should be locked up indefinitely.


Meanwhile under WTO rules  the UK is doing very nicely thank you but as usual, we the people will just continue to be free range humans on a tax farm. :D



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 06:49:03 pm
 
Quote
My prediction is still
 1 Defeat for her deal in Parliament
 2. Labour calls No Confidence vote in Parliament
 3. She loses
 4. Article 50 Postponed
 All she's done is delay it until after the new year. Just watch.

 
You may be right, however what happens after that?

The DUP would have to vote against the government.  Even if the government is voted down, they have two weeks to call a second vote – two weeks to strike a deal with the DUP.


Even if the government fails, a general election throws the country into turmoil.  There is also a saying that Juncker always gets what he wants.  I think it would be extraordinary, but there is a the risk that the EU would refuse to suspend article 50 (I think they will be happy to do so) – this would then force MP’s to call an emergency vote to cancel article 50 therefore binning BREXIT.


I don’t see that working out in the long term.  It’s like the Tories changing the Prime Minister – new face – same problem.  A general election – new government – same problem.   

 
I think we are heading for a temporary cross-party government.  Or at least a cross party committee to solve BREXIT. 



So vote of No Confidence (won with Labour doing a deal with the DUP) – article 50 suspended – a cross party committee set up with the DUP holding a guarantee that the Good Friday Agreement will not be undermined in any shape or form.


And hopefully a New Deal based around single market membership.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 06:54:07 pm
Time fae another funny :lol

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuUXMeTWoAEsJGb.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 14 December 2018, 07:31:54 pm
Quote
Prior to EU membership, i never had to pay 20% tax on anything i bought
That’s incorrect, as I’ve pointed out before VAT replaced the purchase tax in the UK.
Quote
So tell me again, how I'm better off in the EU
Agricola you continue to blame the EU for the policies of successive UK governments, and it appears local councils too. :eek
You were given a ball to kick, and like many others you kicked it hard.  But I’m afraid you’ve kicked the wrong ball.


So tell me how Im better off in the EU then


Still waiting
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 14 December 2018, 07:41:15 pm
You believe it would be better?  In what way?  The Bank of England forecasts a financial crises worse than that of 2008 in the event of a NO DEAL BREXIT.  An economic crash.  A fall in GDP of around 8%.  7.5% rise in unemployment.
 
You still don't get it do you, we don't care if we are poorer (in financial terms ) in the short term. And this is why that scaremongering is does not work, the people who have voted to leave mostly have lost jobs before - have faced hardship and got through it. The remainers on the other hand don't want their comfortable lives with jobs for life to change -they have never experienced tough times, a lot of the issues that people voted to leave for simply never touch their comfy lives and they want to stay in the EU purely for their own personal pockets.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 08:03:17 pm
 
Quote
You still don't get it do you, we don't care if we are poorer (in financial terms ) in the short term.  And this is why that scaremongering is does not work, the people who have voted to leave mostly have lost jobs before - have faced hardship and got through it.

So you want to trash the economy, create a financial crises, create mass unemployment, increase the wealth gap, impose poverty on millions, and for what?  No I don't get it.  Turkeys voting for Christmas.

 
And apparently because you don’t like daylight running lights and graded bananas, both of which will still be with us after we ‘leave’ (if we leave). :eek :eek
That sure makes sense Fazersharp. :'(
Quote
The remainers on the other hand don't want their comfortable lives with jobs for life to change -they have never experienced tough times
I think you mean Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris, David Davis, Gove, Leadsom and so forth.  They will not face any hardship whatsoever.  They will prosper at your expense.  This is simply the continuation of the project Thatcher started in 1979.  Remember 4 million unemployed?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 14 December 2018, 08:18:49 pm
 
Quote
The remainers on the other hand don't want their comfortable lives with jobs for life to change -they have never experienced tough times
I think you mean Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris, David Davis, Gove, Leadsom and so forth. 
From this very forum
Quote
I want to stay in because it's best for me personally.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 08:21:15 pm
Who are you quoting, and what is your point?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 14 December 2018, 08:21:46 pm
Say no more really
 
I'm Scottish first, European second and if push comes to shove I'll reluctantly admit to being British.  Certainly the EU acts as a buffer against the more extreme Tory policies. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 14 December 2018, 08:23:22 pm
Who are you quoting, and what is your point?
I am not going to name them because they have not posted for a while and they are not here to reply
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 14 December 2018, 08:29:42 pm
 
So you want to trash the economy, create a financial crises, create mass unemployment, increase the wealth gap, impose poverty on millions, because you don’t like daylight running lights and graded bananas
:rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 08:31:30 pm
Quote
Say no more really
 Quote from: VNA on 28 February 2016, 07:46:52 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,19420.msg225464.html#msg225464[/url]) I'm Scottish first, European second and if push comes to shove I'll reluctantly admit to being British.  Certainly the EU acts as a buffer against the more extreme Tory policies. 

Precisely, which is why the more extreme right wing Tories wish rid of the EU.  How many times do I need to say so.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 08:33:19 pm
Quote from: VNA on Today at 08:03:17 PM (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg288916.html#msg288916)
Quote
<blockquote> 
Quote<blockquote>The remainers on the other hand don't want their comfortable lives with jobs for life to change -they have never experienced tough times</blockquote>I think you mean Jacob Rees Mogg, Boris, David Davis, Gove, Leadsom and so forth. 
</blockquote>From this very forum
Quote<blockquote>I want to stay in because it's best for me personally.</blockquote>


Quote
Quote from: VNA on Today at 08:21:15 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg288918.html#msg288918[/url])<blockquote>Who are you quoting, and what is your point?
</blockquote>I am not going to name them because they have not posted for a while and they are not here to reply

So not a quote then.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 14 December 2018, 08:35:16 pm
Some charts- It's official, Scotland is definitely British and the UK needs to move into a new bubble!

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 14 December 2018, 08:37:34 pm
Certainly the EU acts as a buffer against the more extreme Tory policies. which is why the more extreme right wing Tories wish rid of the EU.  How many times do I need to say so.
So VNA wants to stay in the EU to protect himself from the big bad nasty Westminster.
 There we have it finally-- the big reason VNA wants to stay in the EU.
 As I said remainders want to stay purely for their own personal reasons. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Dudeofrude on 14 December 2018, 08:46:52 pm
https://youtu.be/1NpExkViy6M
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 09:02:48 pm
Quote
So VNA wants to stay in the EU to protect himself from the big bad nasty Westminster.
 There we have it finally-- the big reason VNA wants to stay in the EU.
 As I said remainders want to stay purely for their own personal reasons. 

I think I’ve made it clear throughout this thread why it is in the best interests of the UK to REMAIN in the EU.  EU employment laws and legislation are just one of many reasons for REMAINING.


 
So far we have had two, apparently compelling, reasons to LEAVE – daylight running lights and legislation relating the grading of bananas.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 09:06:20 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuZlGQhX4AAfCZ8.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 14 December 2018, 09:13:56 pm

I think I’ve made it clear throughout this thread why it is in the best interests of the UK to REMAIN in the EU.  EU employment laws and legislation are just one of many reasons for REMAINING.

So what's stopping us adopting all the laws that we chose to keep. We leave - we take on all the laws as is and as we go we are then free to keep/amend/ delete/add new as we see fit.

  On a side note there is just no winding you up is there --- I gave it my best shot - but nothing, is it the scotish cold or the whisky that has frozen your trigger.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 09:33:30 pm
Quote
So what's stopping us adopting all the laws that we chose to keep. We leave - we take on all the laws as is and as we go we are then free to keep/amend/ delete/add new as we see fit.
Many of those laws have already been dilluted by New Labour or Tory vetos.  The Tories will bin the lot.  The Tories believe in a low wage economy and a hire and fire culture.  The BREXITEERS in the Tory party represent the extreme right of Tory ideology.
Quote
On a side note there is just no winding you up is there --- I gave it my best shot - but nothing, is it the scotish cold or the whisky that has frozen your trigger.   
Sorry I missed that - didn't even notice.   Your habit of miss-quoting me is annoying - but it's the internet - I'm not going to get bothered about it.
But seriously BREXIT really pisses me off.  Why?  Foccing why?  Can we just not stop this madness :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 14 December 2018, 09:44:16 pm
Your habit of miss-quoting me is annoying
Thanks for the tip  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 09:57:12 pm
 
Quote
Quote from: VNA on Today at 09:33:30 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg288931.html#msg288931[/url])<blockquote> Your habit of miss-quoting me is annoying
</blockquote> Thanks for the tip  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url])


See there you go again.

Not bothered.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 14 December 2018, 10:26:41 pm
Quote
So VNA wants to stay in the EU to protect himself from the big bad nasty Westminster.
 There we have it finally-- the big reason VNA wants to stay in the EU.
 As I said remainders want to stay purely for their own personal reasons. 

I think I’ve made it clear throughout this thread that I am a massive Knobhead and really should stay away from the keyboard. I just can't help myself, I'm a troll and I know it but when I said  why it is in the best interests of the UK to REMAIN in the EU I really meant Scotland and my own personal circumstances. Some will say   EU employment laws and legislation are just one of many reasons for REMAINING but the reality is they're not worth the paper they are written on because temporary, zero hours contracts which many of  the UK citizens are on makes a mockery of EU employment laws.


 
So far we have had two, apparently compelling, reasons to LEAVE – daylight running lights and legislation relating the grading of bananas.


Don't forget about my Great Grandad
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 December 2018, 10:39:41 pm
Quote
Your taking this whole argument back to "we voted to remain because we are clever. you voted to leave because you are stupid/racist etc etc". why don't you just say it straight out?
What a pathetic rediculous statement  :rolleyes  by the way it's 'You're'  :)


Again I say, how do you know all of those who voted Leave wanted a 'No Deal' version? What gives you the right to speak for 52% of the population? How do you know that none of them wanted to leave but with a Norway type deal? What utter arrogance!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 December 2018, 10:40:26 pm
Quote
Don't forget about my Great Grandad
Sorry Dazza.  Was thinking about Fazersharp's reasons there.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 December 2018, 11:27:22 pm
Two pieces of EU legislation which I presume you are happy to do away with :
1.EU motor insurance regulations direct that your UK motorcycle insurance automatically covers you for 3rd party liability in any other EU country, without paying an extra premium
2. Your mobile phone roaming charges cover all EU countries. So 'roam like home' includes voice, sms and data.
All benefits from  being part of the 'single market', which we will lose.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 15 December 2018, 12:04:19 am
Two pieces of EU legislation which I presume you are happy to do away with :
1.EU motor insurance regulations direct that your UK motorcycle insurance automatically covers you for 3rd party liability in any other EU country, without paying an extra premium
2. Your mobile phone roaming charges cover all EU countries. So 'roam like home' includes voice, sms and data.
All benefits from  being part of the 'single market', which we will lose.

 You can dump the 3rd party only - almost useless, better to pay extra and get something worth while which I would of thought that anyone who is travelling to the EU would do anyway. Its not like its really useful for those times that you find your self in the Eu by accident  :rolleyes . And do you actually think that premiums are not loaded to add the cover- we do pay extra but we have no choice to or not. 
Roaming - yes we will keep that one.
And that's my point we don't have to throw it all out, we keep what is good and useful and correct for our country and amend others to suit us and keep others. Our choice.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 15 December 2018, 12:10:32 am

Again I say, how do you know all of those who voted Leave wanted a 'No Deal' version? What gives you the right to speak for 52% of the population? How do you know that none of them wanted to leave but with a Norway type deal? What utter arrogance!
Because a Norway type deal was not on the ballot paper - that's how he knows people did not vote for it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 15 December 2018, 02:44:47 am
Interesting article in the Washington post by Henry Olsen worth a read unless your from north of the border or an ex customs and excise worker
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: bludclot on 15 December 2018, 06:56:05 am

Quote
Again I say, how do you know all of those who voted Leave wanted a 'No Deal' version? What gives you the right to speak for 52% of the population? How do you know that none of them wanted to leave but with a Norway type deal? What utter arrogance!


There's a mistake there - 28% of the population voted to leave. I think your quoted 52% refers to those that voted?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 December 2018, 07:32:24 am


Quote
Again I say, how do you know all of those who voted Leave wanted a 'No Deal' version? What gives you the right to speak for 52% of the population? How do you know that none of them wanted to leave but with a Norway type deal? What utter arrogance!


There's a mistake there - 28% of the population voted to leave. I think your quoted 52% refers to those that voted?


what percentage of the population voted Remain?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 15 December 2018, 10:48:19 am
Quote
Prior to EU membership, i never had to pay 20% tax on anything i bought
That’s incorrect, as I’ve pointed out before VAT replaced the purchase tax in the UK.
Quote
So tell me again, how I'm better off in the EU
Agricola you continue to blame the EU for the policies of successive UK governments, and it appears local councils too. :eek
You were given a ball to kick, and like many others you kicked it hard.  But I’m afraid you’ve kicked the wrong ball.



So tell me how Im better off in the EU then


Still waiting


Still waiting
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 December 2018, 11:14:33 am

All the talk now is of a second referendum as the only way to break the deadlock.


They're saying that if the result is Leave again we're back were we are now and Parliament will still reject it.


If the result is Remain they'll accept it and we stay in forever more.







Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 December 2018, 11:33:19 am
Quote
All the talk now is of a second referendum as the only way to break the deadlock.
 
 
They're saying that if the result is Leave again we're back were we are now and Parliament will still reject it.
 
 
If the result is Remain they'll accept it and we stay in forever more.

There are a few problems with a referendum.  The first is time.  We can’t hold a carefully considered referendum and meet the march deadline.


The second is the question.  My suggestion is – May’s Deal or Cancel article 50.  My reasoning is that May’s deal is the only deal on the table (so we are told), and though it will cost the UK economically it’s the not the hellish prospect that NO DEAL is.  However, there are almost endless options for the question, and the question at the end of the day has to satisfy the public.  And while I can understand those who call for NO DEAL on the voting slip, will parliament whom is overwhelmingly opposed to NO DEAL agree to risk such a disaster?


3.   As for parliament rejecting the result.  If the question is agreed and the legislation passed to make the result legally binding – well that is that.  Whatever people decide must be enacted.
 
That’s why I think a cross party committee is a better and more likely solution. 
Deadlock is indeed where we are right now.  It’s where we were always going to end up following the LEAVE result in 2016.  David Cameron opened one big focc off can o worms. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 December 2018, 02:57:58 pm

I've got a bad feeling about all this. I can see us Leavers getting robbed of our victory :( .



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 December 2018, 03:51:32 pm
Quote
Because a Norway type deal was not on the ballot paper - that's how he knows people did not vote for it.
Neither was 'No Deal' although you all seem to think it was......
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 December 2018, 04:01:59 pm
Quote
All the talk now is of a second referendum as the only way to break the deadlock.They're saying that if the result is Leave again we're back were we are now and Parliament will still reject it.If the result is Remain they'll accept it and we stay in forever more.

Interesting article in the Guardian today (yeah I know left wing elitist rag blah blah). As you say, another referendum cannot be Remain/Leave as we would be no further forward. If it's a two choice referendum it's either got to be No Deal/Theresa's Deal, Theresa's deal /Remain or No deal /Remain. So something would have to be eliminated making one lot unhappy.
The other option they suggested was putting 3 on the paper, and allow a second preference vote. The worry with that is we all end up with Theresa's deal  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 15 December 2018, 04:04:38 pm
Has anyone seen the vid of junker yesterday ruffling up a Woman's hair. What ever happened to "me too" Now if that was Borris who did that it would be called a sexual assault and there would be calls for him to be sacked. How come Junker has not been sacked ----- oh wait a minute, no one can.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 December 2018, 04:11:26 pm
Quote
Has anyone seen the vid of junker yesterday ruffling up a Woman's hair. What ever happened to "me too" Now if that was Borris who did that it would be called a sexual assault and there would be calls for him to be sacked.
No I've got better things to do. Was it Theresa?  :D Actually, if it was Boris it would be a sexual assault. Incidentally, where is Boris? He's gone very quiet lately. Sulking because he can't make a leadership challenge for another 12 months?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 December 2018, 04:22:43 pm
Actually, while we're on the subject of sexual assaults, interesting to see that two Tory MPs who had the whip suspended because of allegations of sexual misconduct were suddenly 'unsuspended' just so they could take part of the 'confidence' vote for May. So it just goes to show that within the Tory party,  morals take second place to power.  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 15 December 2018, 04:42:20 pm
Here you are
 Sorry... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIV-WIctcCQ#)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 December 2018, 04:57:46 pm
I just see white, and it's not even snowing (yet)  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 December 2018, 05:44:38 pm
Uh oh. Sounds like you know who's been sampling the VSOP with a bit too much enthusiasm again ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 December 2018, 05:45:45 pm
VSOP! That's European isn't it?  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 December 2018, 06:28:01 pm
Quote
Interesting article in the Guardian today (yeah I know left wing elitist rag blah blah). As you say, another referendum cannot be Remain/Leave as we would be no further forward. If it's a two choice referendum it's either got to be No Deal/Theresa's Deal, Theresa's deal /Remain or No deal /Remain. So something would have to be eliminated making one lot unhappy.
The other option they suggested was putting 3 on the paper, and allow a second preference vote. The worry with that is we all end up with Theresa's deal  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url])
But the priority of parliament is to avoid a NO DEAL BREXIT.


Bearing in mind that;
1.       The 2016 referendum should have never been put to the people.
2.       That May tried to by-pass parliament with her deal.
3.       Further May tried to block parliament’s right to stop the whole process.
 
 
Therefore, surely, parliament must now take control.  Otherwise arguably our democracy appears to be failing.
I think we will increasingly hear of a cross party initiative over the next few days.  This may either happen by consensus or via the brutal mechanism of a no confidence vote. 
 
I think the 2 overall priorities will be;
1.       There cannot be a NO DEAL BREXIT
2.       The Good Friday Agreement must not be undermined in any shape or form.
 
Plus, initially somewhat privately across the Labour, Tories and Lib Dems (what’s left of them) the third objective will be to squash any call for a second Independence referendum.
 
If the three priorities can be agreed, then it’s not difficult to see where we end up.
 
Plus parliament will have asserted it’s power, uncertainty nipped in the bud and our economy can begin to move forwards again.  Unrest in NI averted and the integrity of the UK secured for some years to come.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 December 2018, 06:39:57 pm
 Talking of consensus.


What the English don’t seem to realise, and certainly the English press don’t, and indeed despite a number of coalitions in our UK history, is that a lack of majority is not the end of the world.
 
Our government here in Scotland is a minority government (apart from one term when the SNP did the impossible and won a majority).  The current SNP government cannot pass legislation without the support of others. 



Many countries right round the world operate on this basis. 



What Westminster, now needs to do, is what it thinks is not possible, but which in fact is the norm for so many countries across the globe.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 December 2018, 06:54:06 pm
But 'Westminster'  is already a minority government. They are only in power by forming a coalition with the Dinosaur Unionist Party  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 December 2018, 07:11:21 pm
Quote
But 'Westminster'  is already a minority government. They are only in power by forming a coalition with the Dinosaur Unionist Party  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

 Well yes, sort of.  Not a coalition as the 2010 – 2015 was.  But a Tory majority via a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP.  Bought and paid for as it happens.
 
But still the idea of a true minority government operating on an issue by issue basis seeking cross party support is seen as impossible in England.
 
First past the post and an obsession with majority is partly to blame for creating this whole mess.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 December 2018, 07:28:58 pm
In reply, I give you the Italians....  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 December 2018, 08:11:24 pm
The Italian system almost makes the EU seem simple.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 December 2018, 09:13:54 pm

I was amazed that they actually gave us a referendum. Amazed that the result was Leave. Amazed that they said they'd honour that decision.


Not in the least bit amazed that it increasingly looks like it's was all for nothing. So disappointing if that happens. What will it mean for democracy?. It will alienate so many people from it. I know the Remainers would be whooping with joy, but what a hollow 'victory'.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 December 2018, 10:13:02 pm
 
Quote
I was amazed that they actually gave us a referendum.
It was done to win an election.
Quote
Amazed that the result was Leave.
David Cameron never considered for one second, he would loose it.  If he had, he would have never offered it in the first place. 
Quote
Amazed that they said they'd honour that decision.
What else could they do?
But I still don’t know what it is you think you have won, or what it is you want. 
Quote
Not in the least bit amazed that it increasingly looks like it's was all for nothing. So disappointing if that happens. What will it mean for democracy?. It will alienate so many people from it. I know the Remainers would be whooping with joy, but what a hollow 'victory'.
All for nothing?  What do you mean?  It’s about the Tory party.  And haven't you noticed it has claimed two Prime Ministers (May will have to go at some point), we are on our third BREXIT secretary, the cabinet has a revolving door, and we are now effectively  without government. 



Victory?  Who is winning?  What is the prize :eek   Nobody is winning in this.  And foc help us if the right-wing establishment elite represented by Mogg and others wins – as they will be the only ‘winners’.


At the end of the day we are a representative democracy.  See my post 938, it is time for our democracy to act. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 December 2018, 08:05:53 am
I see Mrs May has put The Blair Creature in his place. Well said woman :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 December 2018, 10:31:51 am
We probably all agree on this.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 December 2018, 11:20:43 am
Agreed.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 December 2018, 12:19:09 pm

We probably all agree on this.


Sorry to disappoint you but....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 December 2018, 12:21:19 pm

We probably all agree on this.


On second thoughts yes I agree bearing in mind that we're probably going to get robbed of our Leave victory.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 December 2018, 12:33:19 pm
For different reasons....


You - 2nd referendum
Us - No Deal


 :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 December 2018, 12:51:28 pm
Quote
On second thoughts yes I agree bearing in mind that we're probably going to get robbed of our Leave victory.
On the plus side, a million or so folks will get to keep their jobs :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 December 2018, 04:17:54 pm

Quote
On second thoughts yes I agree bearing in mind that we're probably going to get robbed of our Leave victory.
On the plus side, a million or so folks will get to keep their jobs :)


Do we really employ THAT many people in Brussels?!! :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 December 2018, 04:23:33 pm

For different reasons....


You - 2nd referendum
Us - No Deal


 :)


Yep. That's about the size of it.


I reckon that twister S.James sold us this Brexit. Typical. Probably spent about 1s/9d on it :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 16 December 2018, 04:40:07 pm
Saw this posted on FB by another Foccer, makes sense to me.
I also read somewhere that Britain coming out of the EU would be the equivalent of 9 or 11 medium sized countries leaving at the same time.
It's a disaster for the EU, they're just playing hard ball and it's time we did.



Finally some sense  Offering the obvious and what should be  final solution
 and it apparently comes from down under


Former Australian PM Tony Abbott...


"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.


Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.


The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.


But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?


A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.


Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.


Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.


Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.


Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.


Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).


UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.


As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it."
Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 December 2018, 06:08:10 pm
Quote
Saw this posted on FB by another Foccer, makes sense to me.
I also read somewhere that Britain coming out of the EU would be the equivalent of 9 or 11 medium sized countries leaving at the same time.
It's a disaster for the EU, they're just playing hard ball and it's time we did.



Finally some sense  Offering the obvious and what should be  final solution
 and it apparently comes from down under


Former Australian PM Tony Abbott...


"It’s pretty hard for Britain’s friends, here in Australia, to make sense of the mess that’s being made of Brexit. The referendum result was perhaps the biggest-ever vote of confidence in the United Kingdom, its past and its future. But the British establishment doesn’t seem to share that confidence and instead looks desperate to cut a deal, even if that means staying under the rule of Brussels. Looking at this from abroad, it’s baffling: the country that did the most to bring democracy into the modern world might yet throw away the chance to take charge of its own destiny.


Let’s get one thing straight: a negotiation that you’re not prepared to walk away from is not a negotiation — it’s surrender. It’s all give and no get. When David Cameron tried to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership, he was sent packing because Brussels judged (rightly) that he’d never actually back leaving. And since then, Brussels has made no real concessions to Theresa May because it judges (rightly, it seems) that she’s desperate for whatever deal she can get.


The EU’s palpable desire to punish Britain for leaving vindicates the Brexit project. Its position, now, is that there’s only one ‘deal’ on offer, whereby the UK retains all of the burdens of EU membership but with no say in setting the rules. The EU seems to think that Britain will go along with this because it’s terrified of no deal. Or, to put it another way, terrified of the prospect of its own independence.


But even after two years of fearmongering and vacillation, it’s not too late for robust leadership to deliver the Brexit that people voted for. It’s time for Britain to announce what it will do if the EU can’t make an acceptable offer by March 29 next year — and how it would handle no deal. Freed from EU rules, Britain would automatically revert to world trade, using rules agreed by the World Trade Organization. It works pretty well for Australia. So why on earth would it not work just as well for the world’s fifth-largest economy?


A world trade Brexit lets Britain set its own rules. It can say, right now, that it will not impose any tariff or quota on European produce and would recognise all EU product standards. That means no border controls for goods coming from Europe to Britain. You don’t need to negotiate this: just do it. If Europe knows what’s in its own best interests, it would fully reciprocate in order to maintain entirely free trade and full mutual recognition of standards right across Europe.


Next, the UK should declare that Europeans already living here should have the right to remain permanently — and, of course, become British citizens if they wish. This should be a unilateral offer. Again, you don’t need a deal. You don’t need Michel Barnier’s permission. If Europe knows what’s best for itself, it would likewise allow Britons to stay where they are.


Third, there should continue to be free movement of people from Europe into Britain — but with a few conditions. Only for work, not welfare. And with a foreign worker’s tax on the employer, to make sure anyone coming in would not be displacing British workers.


Fourth, no ‘divorce bill’ whatsoever should be paid to Brussels. The UK government would assume the EU’s property and liabilities in Britain, and the EU would assume Britain’s share of these in Europe. If Britain was getting its fair share, these would balance out; and if Britain wasn’t getting its fair share, it’s the EU that should be paying Britain.


Finally, there’s no need on Britain’s part for a hard border with Ireland. Britain wouldn’t be imposing tariffs on European goods, so there’s no money to collect. The UK has exactly the same product standards as the Republic, so let’s not pretend you need to check for problems we all know don’t exist. Some changes may be needed but technology allows for smart borders: there was never any need for a Cold War-style Checkpoint Charlie. Irish citizens, of course, have the right to live and work in the UK in an agreement that long predates EU membership.


Of course, the EU might not like this British leap for independence. It might hit out with tariffs and impose burdens on Britain as it does on the US — but WTO rules put a cap on any retaliatory action. The worst it can get? We’re talking levies of an average 4 or 5 per cent. Which would be more than offset by a post-Brexit devaluation of the pound (which would have the added bonus of making British goods more competitive everywhere).


UK officialdom assumes that a deal is vital, which is why so little thought has been put into how Britain might just walk away. Instead, officials have concocted lurid scenarios featuring runs on the pound, gridlock at ports, grounded aircraft, hoarding of medicines and flights of investment. It’s been the pre-referendum Project Fear campaign on steroids. And let’s not forget how employment, investment and economic growth ticked up after the referendum.


As a former prime minister of Australia and a lifelong friend of your country, I would say this: Britain has nothing to lose except the shackles that the EU imposes on it. After the courage shown by its citizens in the referendum, it would be a tragedy if political leaders go wobbly now. Britain’s future has always been global, rather than just with Europe. Like so many of Britain’s admirers, I want to see this great country seize this chance and make the most of it."
Tony Abbott served as Prime Minister of Australia from 2013 to 2015   « Last Edit: Today at 04:50:45 PM » ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=posthistory;topic=24678.0;msg=289014[/url])

Not again. :rolleyes

Anyway, we all know NO DEAL is not an option.  Ain't gonna happen.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 December 2018, 06:41:01 pm
I think your throttle response is a bit slow there dazza. Pretty sure hedgetrimmer's already posted that, or most of it, in this thread.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 December 2018, 06:48:30 pm
Quote
Not again. :rolleyes

 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 16 December 2018, 07:20:46 pm
Ive not seen that before. But I'll drink to it. Well said that man, there is no such thing as "No Deal". Isnt that what some of us have been saying here?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 December 2018, 07:56:53 pm
Dazza déjà vu :lol


Oh and Tony Abbott is still an arse  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 16 December 2018, 08:19:17 pm
I think your throttle response is a bit slow there dazza. Pretty sure hedgetrimmer's already posted that, or most of it, in this thread.
Yes I know, but I thought if VNA can keep asking the same question over and over again and ignoring what has already been answered previously then we should start posting the same things over and over again.  :D
Plus, there are some people who probably haven't seen it because this thread has become so long, not everyone has read everything ( or can remember ......VNA  :pokefun [size=78%])[/size] :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 December 2018, 08:28:48 pm
Yes it's all getting a bit 'samey'  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 December 2018, 02:39:18 am

Sometimes you'd be forgiven for thinking that the referendum was yet to take place.


People keep going over and over the same pre-referendum arguments. Leave won. There's no need to keep on making the case for it. That part is over.


The bit I'd be most concerned about right now is the attempts being made by the Remaniacs to reverse it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 December 2018, 09:45:45 am
Latest talk in the papers is for trying to get a consensus in Parliament for a Norway type deal. Which is of course 'Leave' but remaining in the Customs Union, Single Market and Free Movement. But it's a 'Leave' and therefore 'what the people voted for' :)


Still too much about solving the problems within the Tory party, rather than doing what's best for the country (whatever that is).
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 17 December 2018, 09:56:43 am
I can see there being civil unrest across the country.
It's spreading across Europe.
I see the French lawyers have joined in and the people in Brussels have started to stir.
People are seeing the EU for what it is......
Still unsure how tyrannical and undemocratic it is and how we'll be better off out.
This is an interesting outlook on things.




https://vimeo.com/169341443

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 December 2018, 10:06:52 am

If Brexit gets overturned and we end up staying in The EU this issue is going to go on for eternity, except it'll be intensified by a multiple of about one hundred.


Does anyone seriously think that over 17 million people who have been diddled out of Brexit are just going to shrug their shoulders and accept that without complaint?. The Remainers must be stark, staring bonkers if they think that's going to happen.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 December 2018, 10:18:48 am
Quote
I can see there being civil unrest across the country.
It's spreading across Europe.
I see the French lawyers have joined in and the people in Brussels have started to stir.
People are seeing the EU for what it is......
They are not protesting against the EU.  They are protesting against their governments.
Which is what we should have done.  What we are doing is trying to blame the EU for the action of sucessive UK governments.
Though we may well see civil unrest if the UK leaves the EU in a NO DEAL scenario.  That is perhaps when finally those who voted to LEAVE will understand that once again they have been conned.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 December 2018, 10:34:43 am
As I said above 'Leave' but closely aligned.


If people think we are heading for a 'No Deal' version of Leave, they must be stark raving bonkers.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 December 2018, 10:43:23 am
Quote
I see the French lawyers have joined in and the people in Brussels have started to stir.
The 'people in Brussels' were demonstrating against the Belgian government's adoption of a UN resolution, nothing to do with the EU. But it's always easy to blame them for everything isn't it?
Also there was a counter demonstration. This country is just as split, and I wouldn't fancy the chances of a load of old blokes against the youth of today  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 December 2018, 11:05:59 am

Funny how the solution to the split in this country always seems to come back to overturning Brexit and remaining in The EU :rolleyes


Remain don't give a fig about 'healing' any split. They just want to reverse democracy at any cost and then rub the Leavers noses right in it.


Like I said previously, they'd be as ungracious in victory as they are in defeat.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 December 2018, 11:17:46 am
Nor do Leave if they don't support a Norway style Leave.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 December 2018, 01:29:52 pm

Don't remember voting for anything to do with Norway. That sounds like yet another Remainiac ruse to try to thwart democracy to me :rolleyes


When I voted Leave I assumed it meant a No Deal type exit.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 December 2018, 01:34:07 pm
The 'people in Brussels' were demonstrating against the Belgian government's adoption of a UN resolution 
The unnamed "UN resolution"
Is ---The Global Compact for Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration which was signed by leaders from a 164 countries in Marrakech. A number of European states, including Austria, Hungary, Italy, Poland and Slovakia, refused to formally adopt the pact, which is meant to streamline and smooth international mass migration..


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 17 December 2018, 01:36:43 pm
Quote
I can see there being civil unrest across the country.
It's spreading across Europe.
I see the French lawyers have joined in and the people in Brussels have started to stir.
People are seeing the EU for what it is......
They are not protesting against the EU.  They are protesting against their governments.
Which is what we should have done.  What we are doing is trying to blame the EU for the action of sucessive UK governments.
Though we may well see civil unrest if the UK leaves the EU in a NO DEAL scenario.  That is perhaps when finally those who voted to LEAVE will understand that once again they have been conned.


Hahaha....The French, Germans and Belgains....They are the EU....You're not grasping this are you




https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1772408416214872&id=657015324686799










Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 17 December 2018, 01:41:10 pm
Quote
I see the French lawyers have joined in and the people in Brussels have started to stir.
The 'people in Brussels' were demonstrating against the Belgian government's adoption of a UN resolution, nothing to do with the EU. But it's always easy to blame them for everything isn't it?
Also there was a counter demonstration. This country is just as split, and I wouldn't fancy the chances of a load of old blokes against the youth of today  :lol


As Fazersharp says, this was a migration pact enforced by the UN.....and who's the architect behind that ....that's right ....


https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fvoiceofeurope.com%2F2018%2F12%2Fthey-lied-the-un-migration-pact-is-legally-binding-and-could-be-valid-for-all-countries%2F&h=AT2orRNvjGLKXOB4uPjwL_SJwBWe-6Elt5TlWS2x1TUl4dtdej6FhBhUXfTGNqAEU68DhbrI-w0GmiEFVgLN5lX0Nkpp6KmdSNHpEzpLanI5spxFbjl8_lzXrxgmTUQ5JTwDIto&s=1





Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 December 2018, 02:17:21 pm
Quote
When I voted Leave I assumed it meant a No Deal type exit.
Well that's one. What about the other 16.9999999999999999 million? :) p
Quote
Hahaha....The French, Germans and Belgains....They are the EU....You're not grasping this are you .
:)
So are Austria, Hungary, Italy, Poland and Slovakia. If you don't understand the concept of the EU, no wonder you vote against it :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 December 2018, 02:24:37 pm
Quote
Well that's one. What about the other 16.9999999999999999 million? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url]) p
Quote
Make that 2


Quote
Hahaha....The French, Germans and Belgains....They are the EU....You're not grasping this are you .
:)
So are Austria, Hungary, Italy, Poland and Slovakia. If you don't understand the concept of the EU, no wonder you vote against it :rolleyes

Well in that case somebody also needs to explain the concept of the EU to Austria, Hungary, Italy, Poland and Slovakia cause they ain't playin.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 17 December 2018, 03:28:27 pm
Make that 3
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 December 2018, 05:10:58 pm
OK what about the other 16.9999999997 million then :lol
I see Cameron is interfering!

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 December 2018, 08:11:22 pm
Quote
When I voted Leave I assumed it meant a No Deal type exit.

Quote
Make that 2

Quote
Make that 3

Maist like youse wherenae peyin attention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY)




Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 17 December 2018, 08:15:22 pm
MAKE THAT 4. And Im beginning to tire a tad at the assumption that I didnt know what I was voting for. I did. And I would do the same again.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 17 December 2018, 08:17:47 pm
Quote
Prior to EU membership, i never had to pay 20% tax on anything i bought
That’s incorrect, as I’ve pointed out before VAT replaced the purchase tax in the UK.
Quote
So tell me again, how I'm better off in the EU
Agricola you continue to blame the EU for the policies of successive UK governments, and it appears local councils too. :eek
You were given a ball to kick, and like many others you kicked it hard.  But I’m afraid you’ve kicked the wrong ball.



So tell me how Im better off in the EU then


Still waiting


Still waiting


Still waiting
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 December 2018, 08:20:53 pm
Maist like youse wherenae peyin attention.
Where can I buy a scottish keyboard from like the one you have   :pokefun
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 17 December 2018, 08:54:01 pm
MAKE THAT 4. And Im beginning to tire a tad at the assumption that I didnt know what I was voting for. I did. And I would do the same again.

make that five. and me too.... :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 December 2018, 09:00:56 pm
Quote
Quote
 
    When I voted Leave I assumed it meant a No Deal type exit.
 
 
Quote
 
    Make that 2
 
 
Quote
 
    Make that 3
 
MAKE THAT 4. And Im beginning to tire a tad at the assumption that I didnt know what I was voting for. I did. And I would do the same again.
make that five. and me too.... :)
So you guys, you now tells us, voted for a NO DEAL BREXIT. 
But NO DEAL was not on the voting slip.
And nor did the LEAVE campaign advocate it.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 17 December 2018, 09:02:57 pm
Quote
Your taking this whole argument back to "we voted to remain because we are clever. you voted to leave because you are stupid/racist etc etc". why don't you just say it straight out?
What a pathetic rediculous statement  :rolleyes  by the way it's 'You're'  :)


Again I say, how do you know all of those who voted Leave wanted a 'No Deal' version? What gives you the right to speak for 52% of the population? How do you know that none of them wanted to leave but with a Norway type deal? What utter arrogance!

Although obviously with the caveat that if a leaver says it hes trying to speak for everybody and its utter arrogance, whereas if a remainer suggests his version of what everyone was or wasn't thinking when they voted leave it its totally okely dokely...  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 December 2018, 09:03:56 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DupJtdSX4AELQqY.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 December 2018, 09:08:24 pm
Quote
Again I say, how do you know all of those who voted Leave wanted a 'No Deal' version? What gives you the right to speak for 52% of the population? How do you know that none of them wanted to leave but with a Norway type deal? What utter arrogance!

A lot of em voted for what the LEAVE campaign campaigned for.  This;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 17 December 2018, 09:09:15 pm
I didn't say they didn't mate.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 December 2018, 09:28:07 pm
So there we are.  Voting to LEAVE does not = NO DEAL.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 17 December 2018, 09:44:09 pm
Let's play top trumps :D


 https://youtu.be/GfjH8k3O_ZM
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 December 2018, 10:02:44 pm
 So I think we can all see that voting LEAVE does not necessarily mean leaving the EU without a deal – ie a NO DEAL BREXIT.


And remember the EU is an economic union.


The UK is a sovereign union.


So not only does voting leave not necessarily mean leaving the single market, it was only England and Wales that voted to LEAVE.


Two countries in this union voted to REMAIN.


So we can safely say that two countries in the union, along with ¾ of our united parliament are absolutely solidly against NO DEAL.


And of those who talk of victory,  Well, I’d say it best to be wary of defeating your own. 



 Be carefu whit ye hark fae.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 December 2018, 10:06:33 pm

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DupJtdSX4AELQqY.jpg)


Don't expect that booze to last very long at that party once the bloke in the middle gets in his stride :lol



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 17 December 2018, 10:15:45 pm
 :D :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 December 2018, 10:28:20 pm
Quote
So I think we can all see that voting LEAVE does not necessarily mean leaving the EU without a deal – ie a NO DEAL BREXIT.
I think I've been saying that for about 20 posts. What is it that Leavers don't get? There was only one version of Remain. It was crystal clear.
What is also absolutely clear....... is that this government or parliament, will not allow a No Deal to go through.


So tough on all 5 of you  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 December 2018, 10:55:03 pm
Quote
I think I've been saying that for about 20 posts.
I know.  I know. :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 18 December 2018, 05:08:32 am
 :rolleyes  Get a room you two.....


This is how the more rational and realistic MEP's think....Someone who understands the British better it seems than both of you.
If they were all as understanding and eloquent as him, we wouldn't have voted out.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=524551098021286&id=438456536486382 (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=524551098021286&id=438456536486382)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 December 2018, 09:40:16 am

:rolleyes  Get a room you two.....



 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 December 2018, 09:46:02 am

Maist like youse wherenae peyin attention.
Where can I buy a scottish keyboard from like the one you have   :pokefun


Mac Keyboards?.


Sorry I'll get my coat  :o
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 09:51:30 am
Quote
Sorry I'll get my coat  [/size]

A Mackintosh no doubt  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 18 December 2018, 01:00:16 pm

ok.
its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it.
lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was.
lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in.
And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees.


Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.


On Nov 10th, 2015, David Cameron, the leader of the governing party said this.


"this is a huge decision for our country., perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.And it will be the final decision...When the British people speak, their voice will be respected, not ignored. If we vote to leave, then we will leave. There will not be another renegotiation, and another referendum"


Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
And now, whether remainers like it or not, when they talk about about wanting another referendum, or "more democracy", they are fundamentally lying, they want less democracy, not more. How can you possibly argue against that? And if the government now went aginst that, how could we ever trust politicians again, or indeed ever call ourselves a democratic country.
The very nature of democracy is that "you do not confuse your own personal prejudices with divine wisdom, and if you lose, you accept your defeat with good grace"


So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Flooky on 18 December 2018, 01:21:05 pm
That is exactly it for me, win lose or draw we shouls all respect the result..ignore it at our peril (whayever our feeling )

ok.
its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it.
lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was.
lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in.
And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees.


Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.


On Nov 10th, 2015, David Cameron, the leader of the governing party said this.


"this is a huge decision for our country., perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.And it will be the final decision...When the British people speak, their voice will be respected, not ignored. If we vote to leave, then we will leave. There will not be another renegotiation, and another referendum"


Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
And now, whether remainers like it or not, when they talk about about wanting another referendum, or "more democracy", they are fundamentally lying, they want less democracy, not more. How can you possibly argue against that? And if the government now went aginst that, how could we ever trust politicians again, or indeed ever call ourselves a democratic country.
The very nature of democracy is that "you do not confuse your own personal prejudices with divine wisdom, and if you lose, you accept your defeat with good grace"


So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 01:21:37 pm
Quote
Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.
Nobody ever called Brexiteers impudent or racist. The only person I've called racist is Stephen Yaxley Lennon, and I stand by that 100%.
Yes I'm a democrat, so much so that I believe people can change their minds, as they do every 5 years when we elect new MPs that form a new government. The electorate today would not be the same electorate as 2016.
The last referendum was tainted with lies, illegal foreign money and did not make clear what would come after a Leave result.
As to Cameron, do you really believe what politicians say? He was convinced he was going to win.


What is important now is to get us out of this stalemate. May's method is to delay to the brink so her deal becomes the only viable option left.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Flooky on 18 December 2018, 01:23:27 pm
cant even type now ! but you know what I mean, non of us want to feel that our opinions are ignored..I think if it doesn't go ahead it will kick off..big style.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 01:28:24 pm
Whatever happens, a large proportion of the population will be ignored. That's the trouble with referendums. That's why we elect governments to decide for us.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 December 2018, 01:48:51 pm
Well said ogri.When it is thrown upon leavers "you didn't all vote for the same version of leave" I wonder how many remain voters actually fully agree with the whole EU concept, I think they all want different versions of an EU. I dont think any of them agree that the EU is perfect. How many want an EU army how many want to join the euro how many want ever increasing political integration and ever more laws being drawn up by the EU.

Remainers talk about leavers being deluded but leavers are not deluded they can see and understand with perfect clarity what the remainers cannot, which is the EU will not change their course it will forever keep marching on with the EU project, they think that by being in it they can influence it which is the most deluded concept of all. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 December 2018, 01:54:36 pm
Quote
Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.
Nobody ever called Brexiteers impudent or racist.
:eek Yes you have most definitely called leavers racist
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 02:52:59 pm
Quote
I dont think any of them agree that the EU is perfect. How many want an EU army how many want to join the euro how many want ever increasing political integration and ever more laws being drawn up by the EU.
No the EU isn't perfect. All those examples you've given either haven't happened or we have opted out of.
Quote
Yes you have most definitely called leavers racist

Where?
What concerns me is that the only ones threatening violence on the streets if they don't get what they want, are Leavers :eek


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 December 2018, 03:35:45 pm

Quote
Yes you have most definitely called leavers racist

Where?
Right here Brexit specs in these you posted
Brexit specs excludes brown hues. Berxiteer bingo, muslamic ray guns,immigrants,Im not a racist -but, they dont speak English,
(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24678.0;attach=34056;image)(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24678.0;attach=33801;image)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 December 2018, 03:46:01 pm
Quote
I dont think any of them agree that the EU is perfect. How many want an EU army how many want to join the euro how many want ever increasing political integration and ever more laws being drawn up by the EU.
No the EU isn't perfect. All those examples you've given either haven't happened or we have opted out of.
The EU direction is clear and has been stated so as a goal. If the referendum is overturned and we end up staying in how much longer after that do you think we will still be able to "opt out" of elements, by staying in the whole EU project will be re- energised and accelerated so those bits you say are not perfect will only get worse.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 03:48:04 pm
Not me. Someone else created those. I just found them on Facebook and posted the images :lol


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 03:55:50 pm
Quote
The EU direction is clear and has been stated so as a goal. If the referendum is overturned and we end up staying in how much longer after that do you think we will still be able to "opt out" of elements, by staying in the whole EU project will be re- energised and accelerated so those bits you say are not perfect will only get worse.
I think that's an exaggeration. The EU army is a proposal made by some member states, not a goal. All 27 states would have to agree.
So, according to your last statement we should have voted Remain to consolidate our opt out rights? Anyway, if we rescind Article 50, technically we won't have left at all. There is no clamour for anybody to join the Euro. They've has their fingers burnt with Greece and Ireland.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 December 2018, 04:56:53 pm
Not me. Someone else created those. I just found them on Facebook and posted the images :lol
I am sure that are lots of people in solitary confinement who would of loved to be able to use that excuse in their defence 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 05:52:11 pm
.... and I'm sure there have been lots of people wrongly locked up because of the actions of others....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 05:56:03 pm
So the latest, May pretends to be looking at a No Deal result, and Rees-Mogg supports May.


It's all about saving the Tories  :(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 December 2018, 06:28:42 pm
 
Quote
ok.
 its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it.
 lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was.
 lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in.
 And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees.

Dear oh dear Ogri.
I think we have already in this thread established that the EU is actually a democratic union.
Rhetoric is all well and good.  But 40 odd pages in and we are still hearing off the EU “gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in” yet so far when pressed the foc u BREXITEERS have come up with;
Daylight running lights
Graded bananas
Oh and lets not forget Dazza’a great grandfather.
Quote
Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.
Stephen Yaxley Lennon rightly got called out as a fascist and racist.   Indeed Nigel Farage tore up his UKIP membership card in disgust at his appointment.
Quote
Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
Yup in order to kill UKIP and win and election he gambled on our EU membership – membership that he himself believes is of great importance to our union.  What an ass.
 
Quote
So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all
Firstly, I don’t believe we should allow the Tory party to wreck this nation.
Secondly, I don’t believe people voted for unemployment and more food banks.
Thirdly – two countries in this union voted to REMAIN.  My country voted decisively to REMAIN, I fully expect the Scottish Parliament and our representatives at Westminster to fight to REMAIN in the EU.  If you believe in democracy you’ll understand and respect that.
Fourthly – BREXIT was not defined in the referendum.  Yes the race card was played, the central message of being 350 million a week better off was a blatant lie and illegal foreign money was used in the campaign.


So aye some off us are mighty pissed off at this English Tory mess.  Right now the UK is adrift at sea with nobody at the helm. 
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 December 2018, 06:30:53 pm
It must time fae another funny :lol

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DupnzUxWwAA7JTI.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 07:46:40 pm
Perhaps the No Deal Brexiteers could answer these simple questions :

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 December 2018, 07:51:09 pm



On Nov 10th, 2015, David Cameron, the leader of the governing party said this.


"this is a huge decision for our country., perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.And it will be the final decision...When the British people speak, their voice will be respected, not ignored. If we vote to leave, then we will leave. There will not be another renegotiation, and another referendum"


Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
And now, whether remainers like it or not, when they talk about about wanting another referendum, or "more democracy", they are fundamentally lying, they want less democracy, not more. How can you possibly argue against that? And if the government now went aginst that, how could we ever trust politicians again, or indeed ever call ourselves a democratic country.
The very nature of democracy is that "you do not confuse your own personal prejudices with divine wisdom, and if you lose, you accept your defeat with good grace"


So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all


Brilliant post. My thoughts entirely.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 18 December 2018, 09:14:43 pm
Quote
ok.
 its an emotive issue on both sides, so lets try and take that out of it.
 lets assume my reason for leaving isn't valid, along with whatever every other leavers reason was.
 lets assume mt tread and vna are right to say because remain had a certainty to it that leave didn't, we should have abandoned what we really wanted to do, and voted to stay in a corrupt (just in our view obviously) system, ruled by people we didn't vote for, who gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in.
 And that instead of "dying on our feet rather than living on our knees" (again just our opinions obviously), we should have stayed on our knees.

Dear oh dear Ogri.
I think we have already in this thread established that the EU is actually a democratic union.
Rhetoric is all well and good.  But 40 odd pages in and we are still hearing off the EU “gradually encroached upon every aspect of our lives with rules we had no say in” yet so far when pressed the foc u BREXITEERS have come up with;
Daylight running lights
Graded bananas
Oh and lets not forget Dazza’a great grandfather.
Quote
Lets go so far as to assume that they are right about everything, and the 17.4 million who voted to leave are impudent, racist, etc etc all the other names that have been thrown at us.
Stephen Yaxley Lennon rightly got called out as a fascist and racist.   Indeed Nigel Farage tore up his UKIP membership card in disgust at his appointment.
Quote
Now, perhaps it was wrong for Cameron to allow the common people to decide their future. But he did it.
Yup in order to kill UKIP and win and election he gambled on our EU membership – membership that he himself believes is of great importance to our union.  What an ass.
 
Quote
So i'll only ask this and with the greatest of respect...Mt tread/VNA...are you not democrats? I mean if your not, obviously thats fine, each to their own, I was just sincerely wondering, thats all
Firstly, I don’t believe we should allow the Tory party to wreck this nation.
Secondly, I don’t believe people voted for unemployment and more food banks.
Thirdly – two countries in this union voted to REMAIN.  My country voted decisively to REMAIN, I fully expect the Scottish Parliament and our representatives at Westminster to fight to REMAIN in the EU.  If you believe in democracy you’ll understand and respect that.
Fourthly – BREXIT was not defined in the referendum.  Yes the race card was played, the central message of being 350 million a week better off was a blatant lie and illegal foreign money was used in the campaign.


So aye some off us are mighty pissed off at this English Tory mess.  Right now the UK is adrift at sea with nobody at the helm.

I begin to wonder why youre bothered? When we leave, according to you, Scotland will launch an other independence campaign resulting in Scotland re-joining the EU. If we remain, again, you're a happy man.

In response to your four points:
Firstly: I dont believe we should allow anyone to wreck this nation
Secondly: No-one did vote for unemployment or food banks. They weren't on the ballot paper, so we couldn't. We voted to LEAVE
Thirdly: You know full well that the ballot was a simple first past the post, based upon a majority of the populace of the UNITED KINGDOM deciding the result.
Fourthly: Neither was remain, but we knew what Remain meant. Leave meant Leave, and did not need defining
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 18 December 2018, 09:34:59 pm
Not me. Someone else created those. I just found them on Facebook and posted the images :lol

Wow. thats a logic and mindset its just about impossible to argue with, unless you genuinely believe it yourself. I don't, so I wont.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 18 December 2018, 09:48:22 pm
There's only one thing worse than  a sore loser(mtread) and that's a two time sore loser(VNA)


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2220397058200032&id=914609908711665
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 10:53:53 pm
But we're not losers, it ain't over yet :D


And you will be very very upset when you don't get your No Deal Brexit  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 December 2018, 10:55:54 pm
Quote
Wow. thats a logic and mindset its just about impossible to argue with,
Excellent  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 December 2018, 12:23:20 am
But we're not losers, it ain't over yet :D


And you will be very very upset when you don't get your No Deal Brexit  ;)
Who said I wanted a no deal ?

Nah, I won't be upset. I don't really give a fuck what happens now.
I just wanted out.
Whether that was with or without a deal, makes no difference to me really.


I'd just get my head down and get on with my life.
I just like posting things to balance up the struggle between good and evil.
Guess which side you're on .... :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 12:28:37 am
I'm in the middle  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 December 2018, 06:14:34 am
Well, all that name calling definitely puts you nearer the dark side.
BTW.... Islam is not a race, it's an ideology or religion or make believe reality or whatever you want to call it but it's not a race  so speaking  out against radical Islamists doesn't make you a racist or a fascist.
What ever race they are is irrevelant. The majority of the Muslim rape gangs are Pakistani but we are all part of the human race so as far as I can see "racism" only exists to those who want it to.
The term racist really hasn't got much of an effect nowadays due to being overused.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 10:32:28 am
Well if you believe that you are way way over on the dark side  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 December 2018, 10:48:26 am

It must time fae another funny :lol

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DupnzUxWwAA7JTI.jpg)


From someone who's absolutely devoid of a sense of humour any other time :rolleyes


I nearly split my sides laughing at that 'funny' :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 11:13:19 am
Where are the Leave 'funnies'?  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 December 2018, 01:08:23 pm

Whatever's happened to Speaker Bercow's voice?.


Listening to PMQ's today he makes Brian Blessed sound like Frank Spencer :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 19 December 2018, 01:20:11 pm

Whatever's happened to Speaker Bercow's voice?.


Listening to PMQ's today he makes Brian Blessed sound like Frank Spencer :rolleyes
I have just been laughing too.
It starts off as audible but then degenerates each time 

 Prime Minister
Prime Ministerrrrr
Ministerrrrrrrrrr
Rrrrrrrrrrr
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 02:39:36 pm
He's always done that. He goes up then down. Mind you, he's had a lot to shout about lately.


Did you hear that Tory backbencher yesterday shout out at the SNP leader 'go back to Skye'? I'm outraged and I'm not even Scottish!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 19 December 2018, 02:47:51 pm
He's always done that. He goes up then down. Mind you, he's had a lot to shout about lately.


Did you hear that Tory backbencher yesterday shout out at the SNP leader 'go back to Skye'? I'm outraged and I'm not even Scottish!
Calm yourself man
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 03:02:50 pm
Och aye
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 December 2018, 04:29:02 pm
He's always done that.
No he hasn't. I've been listening to it for years and it's only relatively recently that he's made it ridiculously, theatrically booming.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 December 2018, 04:31:17 pm

Did you hear that Tory backbencher yesterday shout out at the SNP leader 'go back to Skye'? I'm outraged and I'm not even Scottish!
No I didn't hear that.
Did you hear what Corbyn said in the chamber today?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 04:35:27 pm
Yes 'Stupid People' and he wasn't wrong  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 December 2018, 04:39:28 pm
Yes 'Stupid People' and he wasn't wrong  :)
Ahh that's what it was ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 December 2018, 04:45:42 pm
Where are the Leave 'funnies'?  :rolleyes
None of these so called 'funnies' are actually funny though are they?. They're just political point scoring dressed up in the fake guise of 'funny'. I always imagine them being drawn by a middle class, middle aged version of Rick from The Young Ones :lol .
Most of them are posted by a member that has absolutely no sense of humour whatsover, only anger and vitriol, so that ought to be the giveaway if nothing else ;) .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 05:14:51 pm
Scrounger Harris, the most miserable perisher in the regiment?  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 19 December 2018, 05:39:36 pm
Where are the Leave 'funnies'?  :rolleyes
None of these so called 'funnies' are actually funny though are they?. They're just political point scoring dressed up in the fake guise of 'funny'.
They have a distinct feel of Goebbels about them.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 05:48:31 pm
I am now humming 'Springtime For Hitler'  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 05:49:17 pm
Quote
Well, all that name calling definitely puts you nearer the dark side.
BTW.... Islam is not a race, it's an ideology or religion or make believe reality or whatever you want to call it but it's not a race  so speaking  out against radical Islamists doesn't make you a racist or a fascist.
What ever race they are is irrevelant. The majority of the Muslim rape gangs are Pakistani but we are all part of the human race so as far as I can see "racism" only exists to those who want it to.
The term racist really hasn't got much of an effect nowadays due to being overused.

   « Last Edit: Today at 06:32:52 AM » ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=posthistory;topic=24678.0;msg=289171[/url])

Dazza, please, take the BREXIT specs off and return them to mtread for safe keeping.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 December 2018, 05:50:10 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 05:51:19 pm
(http://www.fridaymash.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Vote-People-Cartoon-Brexit-impact-on-immigration-in-EU.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 05:55:41 pm
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14601059_1775222116059276_6509326887232986618_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=ce9ca576ff9ca6e21b10777f2ce7ccac&oe=5CD4F185)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 05:56:44 pm
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14232564_1753675961547225_4943265187157555058_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=1b0b9418d75c23e4cea330769cc4f9fa&oe=5CA96C1A)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 06:00:33 pm
https://twitter.com/i/status/1075113460147609600
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 06:06:46 pm
Quote
Well, all that name calling definitely puts you nearer the dark side.[/size]BTW.... Islam is not a race, it's an ideology or religion or make believe reality or whatever you want to call it but it's not a race  so speaking  out against radical Islamists doesn't make you a racist or a fascist.What ever race they are is irrevelant. The majority of the Muslim rape gangs are Pakistani but we are all part of the human race so as far as I can see "racism" only exists to those who want it to. The term racist really hasn't got much of an effect nowadays due to being overused.

OK it's not racism, let's just call it prejudice or illegal discrimination.
Yes I'm glad the rape gang was put away because they are criminals. Of course that nearly didn't happen because of interference by your friend Stephen Yaxley Lennon. Of course he wanted the prosecution to fail so he could be 'outraged'.
Lastly those who deny the existence of racism, or belittle it, either are blind and deaf, or have an agenda. The agenda to normalise it so it can continue unchallenged.  :thumbdown
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 07:02:19 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dux9_XOW0AE441P.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 December 2018, 07:21:13 pm
Quote
Well, all that name calling definitely puts you nearer the dark side.BTW.... Islam is not a race, it's an ideology or religion or make believe reality or whatever you want to call it but it's not a race  so speaking  out against radical Islamists doesn't make you a racist or a fascist.What ever race they are is irrevelant. The majority of the Muslim rape gangs are Pakistani but we are all part of the human race so as far as I can see "racism" only exists to those who want it to. The term racist really hasn't got much of an effect nowadays due to being overused.

OK it's not racism, let's just call it prejudice or illegal discrimination.
Yes I'm glad the rape gang was put away because they are criminals. Of course that nearly didn't happen because of interference by your friend Stephen Yaxley Lennon. Of course he wanted the prosecution to fail so he could be 'outraged'.
Lastly those who deny the existence of racism, or belittle it, either are blind and deaf, or have an agenda. The agenda to normalise it so it can continue unchallenged.  :thumbdown



Yes, predudice, I'll give you that. I'm predudice too against any child rapists regardless of ethnicity or religion.
And the trial was never in any danger of collapsing due to the live stream, that's complete nonsense and media fabrication. You just happen to believe MSM reports.
To say he wanted it to collapse is testament to some incredulous statements you make.
He's a family man with children of his own who has witnessed first hand the destruction of his home town and terrorising of his local community as well as having a female relative groomed, drugged and raped.
To say he wanted these men to get off and continue these abhorrent evil crimes is evidence of how brain washed you have become.
Yes, racism exists. I've seen it, been on the receiving end of it but it's always the ones who scream it out all the time without correctly identifying it that has eroded its impact and meaning.
You see,  as I've said before, sometimes it's better to be the person who sits and listens rather than the so called liberal left wing anti Facists standing outside shouting out labels and names. You learn more and get all sides of the story before having a biased opinion.
I'm under no illusion that by even siding with the man, I'm going to come under fire by a certain type but I care not.
I work in the city and have witnessed many times the extreme arrogance and attitude of some of these fuckwits, not to mention the many terrorist attacks there have been and innocent lives lost.
What do you want me to do, stand in the corner and dare not mention what's going on for fear of being called a racist ?
It's pathetic mate.













Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 07:36:18 pm
Quote
He's a family man with children of his own
Stephen Yaxley Lennon is a fucking cunt.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 December 2018, 07:54:12 pm
Quote
He's a family man with children of his own
Stephen Yaxley Lennon is a fucking cunt.

:rollin [size=78%]
Quote from: dazza link=topic=24678.msg289207#msg289207 date=1545247[/size
[/font][/quote
You see,  as I've said before, sometimes it's better to be the person who sits and listens rather than the so called liberal left wing anti Facists standing outside shouting out labels and names.















I see you poked your head out from your Scottish rock :lol :lol  I wonder how many of these delightful gentlemen you come across up your neck of the woods.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=346629732792700&id=381971441938916






Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 07:54:29 pm
He was warned he would be in contempt of court. He did it, was arrested and found guilty. I believe in the justice system in this country, do you?
I also detest child rapists, but I don't single out just one religion or race.

You see the trouble is you just offer opinion. You don't provide any evidence at all.
I used to work in the city, and have been personally caught up in terrorist attacks. Perhaps I was one of those fuckwits.
One thing I will congratulate this government for is the action they are taking against right wing extremists and terrorists. EDL, National Action and all the rest.
O yes, and Stephen Yaxley Lennon is a fucking cunt  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 08:09:13 pm
 I personally find any promotion of Stephen Yaxley Lennon offensive.
Links to so called ‘Tommy Robinson’s’ facebook page etc should have no place on this forum.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 December 2018, 08:13:55 pm
I personally find any promotion of Stephen Yaxley Lennon offensive.
Links to so called ‘Tommy Robinson’s’ facebook page etc should have no place on this forum.
:rollin :rollin :rollin Fucking snowflake :rollin :rollin :rollin


You've been trying to push my buttons by making inaccurate references to my Great Grandfather being shot during the Great War. To no effect.
Looks like I've found yours.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 08:18:30 pm
 Dazza, this is a thread about BREXIT.


If you want promote racist fascist low life scum bag nasty bastards like Stephen Yaxley Lennon, then do it somewhere else, not on this thread, and frankly as far as I am concerned preferably not on this forum.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Slaninar on 19 December 2018, 08:33:14 pm
Yes, racism exists.
(https://isitfunnyoroffensive.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/1907501_1140012262691774_2275379401696683798_n.jpg)
Trololo.  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 December 2018, 08:47:23 pm
Dazza, this is a thread about BREXIT.


If you want promote racist fascist low life scum bag nasty bastards like Stephen Yaxley Lennon, then do it somewhere else, not on this thread, and frankly as far as I am concerned preferably not on this forum.


VNA....it's quite simple.....don't keep mentioning his name and you won't have to put up with someone giving you another side of the story.
And when you mention my Great Grandfather again, make sure you mention all the other "genuine" reasons previously given to you by me for wanting to leave and not just the ones to make leavers look foolish.
Anyway, I've just spoke to TR and he thinks you're both a pair of cunts too. :lol







Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 08:55:50 pm
Quote
VNA....it's quite simple
Yes it's simple Dazza, take your racist, facist pish somewhere else.
It's a BREXIT thread Dazza.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 19 December 2018, 09:23:42 pm

I think that you will find that the first mention of SCY-L was made by the one and only -----VNA, in an attempt to attach racism to the brexit result.Here you are.

Oh and talking of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists;
 
Well has anybody seen Nigel recently?  I couldn’t believe it yesterday when I saw the short report on the BBC concerning his resignation from UKIP.  Apparently over some little prick called Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon being taken on by UKIP as an ‘advisor’.
 
So it’s now fruitcakes loonies and racists.  I think we can drop the closet bit. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 December 2018, 09:28:40 pm
Quote
Well, all that name calling definitely puts you nearer the dark side.BTW.... Islam is not a race, it's an ideology or religion or make believe reality or whatever you want to call it but it's not a race  so speaking  out against radical Islamists doesn't make you a racist or a fascist.What ever race they are is irrevelant. The majority of the Muslim rape gangs are Pakistani but we are all part of the human race so as far as I can see "racism" only exists to those who want it to. The term racist really hasn't got much of an effect nowadays due to being overused.

OK it's not racism, let's just call it prejudice or illegal discrimination.
Yes I'm glad the rape gang was put away because they are criminals. Of course that nearly didn't happen because of interference by your friend Stephen Yaxley Lennon.

You and mtread both mentioned his name calling him a racist and facist.
I merely pointed out that actually racism has nothing to do with it.
You were happy to continue spouting abuse and condemnation until now, why is that because it's not going your way.
Racism and fascism..... The safe words for snowflakes all over the country.
You stop mentioning him, I'll stop correcting you.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 December 2018, 09:35:56 pm

I think that you will find that the first mention of SCY-L was made by the one and only -----VNA, in an attempt to attach racism to the brexit result.Here you are.

Oh and talking of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists;
 
Well has anybody seen Nigel recently?  I couldn’t believe it yesterday when I saw the short report on the BBC concerning his resignation from UKIP.  Apparently over some little prick called Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon being taken on by UKIP as an ‘advisor’.
 
So it’s now fruitcakes loonies and racists.  I think we can drop the closet bit. :lol
As I was writing mine I was thinking..... I bet Fazersharp is searching for the thread where VNA firsts mentions him :lol  Well done that man. :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 19 December 2018, 09:37:24 pm
The term “extremism in all its forms” comes to mind, the far left/alt left feel they have a righteous, moral superiority usually demonstrated by a rabid response to anything other than their own view of the truth.
 Perfectly demonstrated on this thread.

(Mike drop)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 December 2018, 09:42:32 pm
Agreed, demonstrated perfectly by both of them.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 December 2018, 10:27:25 pm
Quote
Oh and talking of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists;
 
Well has anybody seen Nigel recently?  I couldn’t believe it yesterday when I saw the short report on the BBC concerning his resignation from UKIP.  Apparently over some little prick called Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon being taken on by UKIP as an ‘advisor’.
 
So it’s now fruitcakes loonies and racists.  I think we can drop the closet bit. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Yup, I 100% stand by that post.  And yup it's 100% true that Christopher Yaxley-Lennon has been taken on by UKIP as an advisor.  It's also 100% true that UKIP is now haemorrhaging  members including Nigel Farage - why? - becuase they are all running out the door distancing themselves from a known hoologan, thug, racist and facist.
And of course it was UKIP that effectively delivered this referendum. 

So everything I posted in relation to UKIP and Christopher Yaxley-Lennon is 100% relevent and correct.
And I make no excuses whatsoever to objecting to anybody who defends Christopher Yaxley-Lennon, and I most strongly object to the posting and linking to facist and racist material promoting Christopher Yaxley-Lennon.
This is a BREXIT thread.  If you want to promote your hidious racists views and hero worship of so called Tommy Robinson, go and fuck off and do it somewhere else and not on the most popular thread on this forum - the uttery fantastic just for VNA a BREXIT thread :lol


Seriously if you wanna do that shite get your own thread.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 10:29:07 pm
Yeah you've agreed to more unsubstantiated bollocks.

Dazza, I don't remember your hero campaigning about this one last February?  O no of course he only targets Muslims, I forgot.

A Senior 'member of the far-rightEnglish Defence League (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/EnglishDefenceLeague)has been jailed for sexually abusing a schoolgirl dozens of times.Leigh McMillan, 46, groomed his 10-year-old victim with cigarettes and drugs before subjecting her to a “spiral of sexual abuse” during the mid-1990s, jurors at the Old Bailey heard.
I also don't remember him condemning the terrorists Thomas Mair and Darren Osborne (Google them by all means) :)
You see what the extreme right does have is selective morals. Selective to suit themselves of course.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 19 December 2018, 10:50:59 pm
Quote
Oh and talking of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists;
 
Well has anybody seen Nigel recently?  I couldn’t believe it yesterday when I saw the short report on the BBC concerning his resignation from UKIP.  Apparently over some little prick called Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon being taken on by UKIP as an ‘advisor’.
 
So it’s now fruitcakes loonies and racists.  I think we can drop the closet bit. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Yup, I 100% stand by that post.  And yup it's 100% true that Christopher Yaxley-Lennon has been taken on by UKIP as an advisor.  It's also 100% true that UKIP is now haemorrhaging  members including Nigel Farage - why? - becuase they are all running out the door distancing themselves from a known hoologan, thug, racist and facist.
And of course it was UKIP that effectively delivered this referendum. 

So everything I posted in relation to UKIP and Christopher Yaxley-Lennon is 100% relevent and correct.
And I make no excuses whatsoever to objecting to anybody who defends Christopher Yaxley-Lennon, and I most strongly object to the posting and linking to facist and racist material promoting Christopher Yaxley-Lennon.
This is a BREXIT thread.  If you want to promote your hidious racists views and hero worship of so called Tommy Robinson, go and fuck off and do it somewhere else and not on the most popular thread on this forum - the uttery fantastic just for VNA a BREXIT thread :lol


Seriously if you wanna do that shite get your own thread.

Again you chose to ignore and deflect, a tactic used by you quite a lot.
YOU did not want his name mentioned.
Dazza said.
Quote
VNA....it's quite simple.....don't keep mentioning his name 
I have pointed out that YOU were the first person on here to mention his name --- that was all.It did not require a morally high ground rabid response. Just an acknowledgement that yes you were the first person to bring his name into the Brexit thread.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 10:53:04 pm
You see what we are posting are facts. What you are posting are opinions. Yours and SYL's (I can't even be bothered now to type out his name) opinions. Opinions are worthless unless substantiated by facts.
BTW I'm no snowflake  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 10:59:20 pm
Let's just put this in context with facts.
SYL was mentioned in connection with Brexit because he is now an advisor to UKIP and has caused Farage to leave the party
SYL is a convicted criminal several times over.
Dazza defends SYL and says he's a nice misunderstood bloke
It all kicks off.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 19 December 2018, 11:10:10 pm
Let's just put this in context with facts.
SYL was mentioned in connection with Brexit because he is now an advisor to UKIP and has caused Farage to leave the party
SYL is a convicted criminal several times over.
Dazza defends SYL and says he's a nice misunderstood bloke
It all kicks off.....
He did not call him nice. -- Blatant lie. --- wait a min I thought remainers did not lie.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 December 2018, 11:21:17 pm
He said he does '' charity work and help for homeless ''. I was just paraphrasing :)
Actually, thinking about it, so did Jimmy Saville  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 20 December 2018, 07:36:11 am
With reference to VNA's reply1069. I started this thread so VNA and his side kick had somewhere to post the bile and bigoted rubbish they continually erupts from there mouths, and most of us knew to avoid this thread with the very occasional dip into it for a laugh. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 December 2018, 10:11:46 am
I think you will find the Leavers are enjoying this thread as much as the Remainers, if not more so. Do pop in now and again, you're welcome  :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 December 2018, 10:18:43 am
As yesterday's Parliament was all about immigration policy, I thought I'd add this funny.


Disclaimer : The poster does not necessarily agree with any of the wording in the picture. In particular, he does not accuse any other forum member of having worked in Germany, or of uttering the phrase 'ha_way the lads, pet'.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 20 December 2018, 10:34:26 am
Think you will find the 7 characters were all tradesmen 3 Brickies, 1 Plasterer, and 3 chippies  Not a brit labourer there from what I remember most labourers were Germans and foccing useless. So there's another thing your wrong about. When the Dutch agents weren't trying to rip us off.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 20 December 2018, 10:34:58 am
Slightly off topic, but relevant to some of my previous comments about lack of Statesmen/forgotten how to govern ourselves etc

Utterly dismayed by the rabble in the House of Commons yesterday, howling, braying, childish behaviour over the utterance of a couple of words. In ordinary life, all of us would have replied with a similar comment and moved on. Not this fucking useless shower of gnats piss. They make headline news out of it. Those ruddy foreigners must be pissing themselves at us
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 December 2018, 10:58:02 am
Quote
Think you will find the 7 characters were all tradesmen 3 Brickies, 1 Plasterer, and 3 chippies  Not a brit labourer there from what I remember most labourers were Germans and foccing useless. So there's another thing your wrong about. When the Dutch agents weren't trying to rip us off.
I think 'labourers' was used as a generic term for workers who didn't have a proper office job  :pokefun
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 December 2018, 11:10:09 am
Quote
Utterly dismayed by the rabble in the House of Commons yesterday, howling, braying, childish behaviour over the utterance of a couple of words. In ordinary life, all of us would have replied with a similar comment and moved on. Not this fucking useless shower of gnats piss. They make headline news out of it. Those ruddy foreigners must be pissing themselves at us
Totally agree. The whole set up is archaic and confrontational. Facing each other. Voting by walking through separate 'lobbies'. Blackrod etc. History and ceremony is one thing, but about time they migrated out of that ridiculous building into something more suitable for a modern democratic society.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 December 2018, 11:13:27 am

Slightly off topic, but relevant to some of my previous comments about lack of Statesmen/forgotten how to govern ourselves etc

Utterly dismayed by the rabble in the House of Commons yesterday, howling, braying, childish behaviour over the utterance of a couple of words. In ordinary life, all of us would have replied with a similar comment and moved on. Not this fucking useless shower of gnats piss. They make headline news out of it. Those ruddy foreigners must be pissing themselves at us


Had it been said from the Conservative side, Labour would have been going absolutely bonkers. They really are the biggest bunch of hypocrites there is.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 December 2018, 11:15:52 am


I think 'labourers' was used as a generic term for workers who didn't have a proper office job  :pokefun


 :eek :eek :eek


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 December 2018, 11:33:04 am
Quote
Had it been said from the Conservative side, Labour would have been going absolutely bonkers. They really are the biggest bunch of hypocrites there is.

If they'd called Corbyn any sort of woman they'd have every right to.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 December 2018, 11:40:38 am
I thought he said 'people' and not 'woman'? ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 December 2018, 11:50:11 am
He did but someone on the Tory benches is a ventriloquist, so it sounded like 'woman'  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 December 2018, 12:04:19 pm

I liked the way Corbyn and another bolted straight off into a side room to watch it back on a monitor :lol


Wonder what that was all about? :rolleyes


Speaker Bercow must be the worst in the history of Parliament.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 December 2018, 12:32:31 pm
It's all a farce on both sides. May doing her pantomime lines. As said above, Europe thinks we are rediculous.


Bercow has his own problems to worry about....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 20 December 2018, 12:54:20 pm

My wife is an early years teacher she watched that shower of MPs unacceptable general behaviour most of them not just the odd 1 or 2, followed by the comment the 2 to 4 year olds she teaches are far better behaved.
When you watch the MPs conduct them selves in the chamber there is no wonder we are in all kinds of a mess with Brexit which ever side you believe to be right.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 December 2018, 01:25:35 pm
Totally agree
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 20 December 2018, 03:13:41 pm
Quote
Utterly dismayed by the rabble in the House of Commons yesterday, howling, braying, childish behaviour over the utterance of a couple of words. In ordinary life, all of us would have replied with a similar comment and moved on. Not this fucking useless shower of gnats piss. They make headline news out of it. Those ruddy foreigners must be pissing themselves at us
Totally agree. The whole set up is archaic and confrontational. Facing each other. Voting by walking through separate 'lobbies'. Blackrod etc. History and ceremony is one thing, but about time they migrated out of that ridiculous building into something more suitable for a modern democratic society.


Foc that, can you imagine the amount of money they would spend on something more sensible?  It would go massively over budget then be found not fit for purpose !
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 20 December 2018, 08:23:17 pm
Quote
Utterly dismayed by the rabble in the House of Commons yesterday, howling, braying, childish behaviour over the utterance of a couple of words. In ordinary life, all of us would have replied with a similar comment and moved on. Not this fucking useless shower of gnats piss. They make headline news out of it. Those ruddy foreigners must be pissing themselves at us
Totally agree. The whole set up is archaic and confrontational. Facing each other. Voting by walking through separate 'lobbies'. Blackrod etc. History and ceremony is one thing, but about time they migrated out of that ridiculous building into something more suitable for a modern democratic society.


Yes. But its not just the buildings ans sytem, its the MPs too. To be elected, you must belong to one of the two main parties, the people dont want to elect independents. That may be the system since parliament raised the cost of standing to £10k. Got to be the only workplace in the UK with subsidised bars on the premises, and its normal to turn up for work bladdered
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 20 December 2018, 08:26:53 pm
Quote
Utterly dismayed by the rabble in the House of Commons yesterday, howling, braying, childish behaviour over the utterance of a couple of words. In ordinary life, all of us would have replied with a similar comment and moved on. Not this fucking useless shower of gnats piss. They make headline news out of it. Those ruddy foreigners must be pissing themselves at us
Totally agree. The whole set up is archaic and confrontational. Facing each other. Voting by walking through separate 'lobbies'. Blackrod etc. History and ceremony is one thing, but about time they migrated out of that ridiculous building into something more suitable for a modern democratic society.


Foc that, can you imagine the amount of money they would spend on something more sensible?  It would go massively over budget then be found not fit for purpose !


Thats normal for all government contracts. What till the bill drops through the letter box for HS2. I confidently predict at least 10 times estimates
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 December 2018, 08:30:35 pm
Quote
Yes. But its not just the buildings ans sytem, its the MPs too. To be elected, you must belong to one of the two main parties, the people dont want to elect independents. That may be the system since parliament raised the cost of standing to £10k. Got to be the only workplace in the UK with subsidised bars on the premises, and its normal to turn up for work bladdered

.... and they vote for their own pay rises. Don't get me started on their 'expenses'  :\
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 December 2018, 11:26:11 pm
Just saying.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 21 December 2018, 07:22:27 am
Mtread have to agree does make you wonder if could it be some miss guided remainer trying to prove a point. (Yet another scare tactic)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 December 2018, 09:58:43 am
Headline that goes with it 'Country that says everything will be OK post Brexit, brought to a halt by a small plastic flying thing'  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 December 2018, 10:46:30 am
Just saying.....
The timing of it has saved Corbin -------stupid drone
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 December 2018, 02:34:25 pm
Quote
stupid drone
O is that what he said?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 December 2018, 06:27:30 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du3HVhnX4AEDJW8.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 December 2018, 07:50:00 pm
Quote
stupid drone
O is that what he said?  :lol
:lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 December 2018, 08:29:36 pm
What amuses me is that nobody is arguing about the word 'stupid'  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 December 2018, 09:29:03 pm
What amuses me is that nobody is arguing about the word 'stupid'  :)
If it was a Woman saying stupid Man there would be nothing more said.
 
 Maybe if he would of said

  "would the speaker agree with me that the RH Member is displaying an intelligent behaviour"  then that would of been more parliamentary acceptable.

 That Corbin does have a temper on him at times.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 December 2018, 10:54:31 pm
Last Leg tonight on TV had a lip reader check it out. What he actually said was 'Fucking Wankers'  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 December 2018, 12:29:51 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvAxAEaXcAE9aYz.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 22 December 2018, 12:47:57 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvAxAEaXcAE9aYz.jpg)
Finally something non brexit propaganda AND funny. VNA has caught the Christmas spirit - or another sort of spirit 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 December 2018, 01:23:29 pm
Did you no like the previous wan fazersharp.  Gave me a laugth :lol ;
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du3HVhnX4AEDJW8.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 December 2018, 01:24:53 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du4726-XQAE9G0w.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 December 2018, 01:25:45 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du4enepWwAAdXKJ.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 22 December 2018, 04:10:08 pm
The thing is, these aren't really funny at all.......
This on the other hand..... :lol  Merry Christmas :)


Disclaimer.....This is not aimed at anyone in particular for fear of offending any snowflake types.  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 December 2018, 05:33:55 pm
Is that Tommy's biography?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 December 2018, 06:12:16 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dueq2eHWoAIaAaV.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 December 2018, 09:13:57 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvCuQvhWwAAF9a4.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 23 December 2018, 12:19:57 am
Is that Tommy's biography?  :lol
If you say so. I expect you're  an expert on that topic too.  :lol
Good to see you have started calling him Tommy.....Probably best to get used to his name as I get the feeling you're going to be hearing a lot more from him...... No thanks to incidents like this his popularity is only going to grow....Would you call this racism, discrimination or right wing Facists starting trouble deliberately trying to provoke ?
Your opinion would genuinely be interesting to hear...


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=282798445765183&id=1159720410844971 (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=282798445765183&id=1159720410844971)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 December 2018, 11:25:38 am
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/-racist-overseas-brexit-european_union-intolerance-twtn525_low.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 December 2018, 12:37:38 pm
Quote
Good to see you have started calling him Tommy.....Probably best to get used to his name as I get the feeling you're going to be hearing a lot more from him....
Nah, he's still SYL, or possibly RAH. Don't think we will hear much more from him soon. He's still on bail and the prosecution will be rerun. Hopefully he'll be back inside soon, except we'll have to hear his supporters wailing again.
Don't know why you keep posting links instead of copying out the relevant details. Not going to follow them as it might lead to a nasty virus  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 December 2018, 12:50:28 pm
Is that Tommy's biography?  :lol
There you go again bringing up voldermort's name when it has been left out of the debate for a few days.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 23 December 2018, 01:47:38 pm
Not going to follow them as it might lead to a nasty virus  :)
Yeah, probably best....The reality virus has got be a bitter pill to swallow.  :lol


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 December 2018, 02:07:15 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClyK7drWkAAJT06.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 December 2018, 03:40:01 pm
Dazza, have you been at the barley wine again :lol


Like the picture. Yes I've got one of those Magic Eye books. If you screw up your eyes and bash yourself on the head you see a successful Brexit  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 December 2018, 03:47:47 pm
(https://funfacial.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/av8ZN4Z_700b.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 24 December 2018, 05:05:15 am
I see you two have had a secret meet up and here's the photographic proof. :lol
Have a great Christmas everyone whatever your political views.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 December 2018, 02:32:59 pm
And happy Īsā ibn Maryam to you too  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 24 December 2018, 06:52:23 pm

Have a great Christmas everyone whatever your political views.
Yes enjoy your last EuroXmas all you Remainers :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 December 2018, 07:19:32 pm
Merry Brexit
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slimwilly on 26 December 2018, 09:17:58 pm
We had a brilliant leader for this BREXIT, the one and only Margaret Thatcher, she would of sorted the remoaners out,
She did a fantastic job herein her time, sorted them unions out.
Bring back Maggie xxx

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 December 2018, 11:02:41 pm
Bring back Maggie xxx
Good luck with that :rolleyes .
 There's plenty of politicians who are still in the land of the living that are doing their level best to ensure Brexit is implemented. I'd suggest you'd be better off placing your faith in them ;) .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 December 2018, 12:11:37 am
Quote
We had a brilliant leader for this BREXIT, the one and only Margaret Thatcher, she would of sorted the remoaners out,She did a fantastic job herein her time, sorted them unions out.Bring back Maggie xxx

Yes bring back Maggie, the supporter of the EU. Um you did know about this didn't you?  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 27 December 2018, 02:00:01 am
More misleading misinformation from a remainer willing to quote old news from early on in someone's life or career.
Now tell the truth.
When she was the opposition she was an advocate but once in power after she wised up, she strongly spoke out against the EU.
I'm not saying she wanted to leave but she certainly saw them as unelected beaurocrats. Slimwilly may be referring to her reputation as an iron lady and willingness to stand up to and speak out against

wayhttps://youtu.be/3h75URc8p74 (https://youtu.be/3h75URc8p74)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 27 December 2018, 02:21:33 am

Yes bring back Maggie, the supporter of the EU. Um you did know about this didn't you?  :)



https://youtu.be/tVt_1ByddUQ (https://youtu.be/tVt_1ByddUQ)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 27 December 2018, 07:43:01 am
How many sleeps before we are a free and independent nation again?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 December 2018, 09:22:13 am
Quote
We had a brilliant leader for this BREXIT, the one and only Margaret Thatcher, she would of sorted the remoaners out,She did a fantastic job herein her time, sorted them unions out.Bring back Maggie xxx

Yes bring back Maggie, the supporter of the EU. Um you did know about this didn't you?  :)

One of the things I notice here is that they are all separate nations flags, would that be today there would just be the 1 EU flag.
NO NO NO as the lady said. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 27 December 2018, 10:02:10 am
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/21/the-eu-has-destroyed-some-of-our-most-prosperous-industries---an/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_fb (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/21/the-eu-has-destroyed-some-of-our-most-prosperous-industries---an/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_fb)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 December 2018, 10:34:30 am
Quote
More misleading misinformation from a remainer willing to quote old news from early on in someone's life or career.
Bit difficult to quote current Maggie news! One thing Maggie wouldn't have done is lead us down a path which makes this country poorer.
And there you go providing those dodgy Internet links again  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 27 December 2018, 12:01:53 pm
Quote
More misleading misinformation from a remainer willing to quote old news from early on in someone's life or career.
Bit difficult to quote current Maggie news! One thing Maggie wouldn't have done is lead us down a path which makes this country poorer.
And there you go providing those dodgy Internet links again  ;)
You haven't got to quote current news, just relevant and the most up to date.
As said before, it's not where you started, it's where you ended up.
It's the same as when you try to discredit TR by his early misdemeanours.
What I've noticed with you mtread is that you seem to delight in trying to make people on here look foolish just for the sake of doing it.
The thing is, I've met you in person and you didn't strike me as that type.
Funny what effect sitting behind a keyboard can do to some folks.
I noticed the Norweigan flag is prominent on her jumper too......Bit ironic that.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 27 December 2018, 12:36:12 pm
Not me. Someone else created those. I just found them on Facebook and posted the images :lol

I think the keyboard brings out alter egos that are tongue in cheek sometimes. I don't for one minute believe that mttread was being serious when he says "yeah I posted it, but im not the original author so therefore technically I didn't actually say it, even though I repeated it. Which I obviously didn't..." :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 December 2018, 12:48:20 pm
I'm a hard remainer but I'm not taking this thread seriously  :) And yes we have met Dazza, but I don't make a lot of noise.
BTW (not making you look foolish) but there's no Norwegian flag on her jumper  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 27 December 2018, 01:32:41 pm
ditto mate. Whatever our individual politics were all here for the love of one thing, and its got two wheels, an engine and no political leanings whatsoever.. ;) ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 27 December 2018, 01:57:10 pm
I'm a hard remainer but I'm not taking this thread seriously  :) And yes we have met Dazza, but I don't make a lot of noise.
BTW (not making you look foolish) but there's no Norwegian flag on her jumper  :D
Yes, my mistake, always get Danish and Norweigan flags mixed up.  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 27 December 2018, 05:20:01 pm
I'm a hard remainer but I'm not taking this thread seriously  :) And yes we have met Dazza, but I don't make a lot of noise.
BTW (not making you look foolish) but there's no Norwegian flag on her jumper  :D


That because there is no such place as Norway, it does not exist, it just a made place up by the rest of the Scandinavian twits.  :eek [size=78%]  [/size]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 December 2018, 05:51:24 pm
 
Quote
I think the keyboard brings out alter egos that are tongue in cheek sometimes. I don't for one minute believe that mttread was being serious when he says "yeah I posted it, but im not the original author so therefore technically I didn't actually say it, even though I repeated it. Which I obviously didn't..." :lol :lol

No indeed, I think he was, quite possibly, taking the piss out of those who object to a tongue in cheek poster taking the piss out of BREXITEERS. 



I think also cos we are reduced to text on this forum it makes it harder for folks to accept that others may have a different point of view.  Folks often post on a forum, or rather facebook or twitter, looking for others to agree with them.  Many people ain’t looking for debate, they look online for re-enforcement of their own views.  We’ve all signed up here cos we love bikes – but low and behold we don’t all share the same political views. 
Quote
It's the same as when you try to discredit TR by his early misdemeanours.
For somebody to be discredited they would have to have some sort of credibility.  A person who takes and uses as a pseudonym, the name of a ‘celebrated’ football hooligan, just never had and never will have any credibility, and that’s without going into his string of convictions, time in jail, as well trying to get paedophiles off the hook for his own perverted narcissistic publicity gain.  As for the Oxford student union, they have made themselves look pretty stupid by offering him a platform.



For me BREXIT is the UK’s TRUMP moment.  We are blaming the EU for a secession of governments over several decades that have represented first and foremost the 1% and screwed the rest of us.


It’s that and the new digital world we live in.  Apparently, we have had enough of experts.  The facts are lies – fake news, and the lies, like 350 million pounds a week for the NHS are the truth.  And of course what will we do if we crash out of the EU without a deal and we all feel the pain – well, simple, people will blame the EU!
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 December 2018, 05:55:19 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvYPIZWWoAACPrE.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 December 2018, 06:56:49 pm
How many sleeps before we are a free and independent nation again?

Less than 100 now :D . I've got the Champagne on ice :b (I've heard we won't be able to get Champagne after Brexit by the way ;) ).
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 December 2018, 07:18:43 pm
Quote
Less than 100 now ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url]) . I've got the Champagne on ice ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/tongue.gif[/url]) (I've heard we won't be able to get Champagne after Brexit by the way ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url]) ).

Sure you will.  Just that a bottle Veuve Clicquot Yellow Label will be 30% or more dearer due to weaker pound and the import tariff.  So 52 quid as opposed to the usual 40 quid.  But, really, how many will be drinking champagne in Britains new hire and fire low wage economy anyway.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 December 2018, 07:31:56 pm
Just that a bottle Veuve Clicquot Yellow Label will be 30% or more dearer due to weaker pound and the import tariff. 
So why don't we just not put a tariff on it then, --- wait a min thats part of being in the EU --- wait a min, we wont be in the EU --- wait a min that means we will not have to levy import taxes on non EU goods either like we have to do as part of the club ----wait a min, that means food will be CHEAPER. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 December 2018, 07:55:12 pm
Quote
So why don't we just not put a tariff on it then
I totally agree! :)   We can do that by REMAINING in the EU. :)   Tariff free trade! :)   


But sadly when we leave, or rather if we leave under NO DEAL, as you seem to prefer, then we will be a third party country operating under WTO rules.

 I’m not going to pretend thatI know the WTO rules on booze and tariffs.  But I believe the EU places a 30% tariff on imported wine from third party countries.


 
So um, yeah, I might be a bit out with my price guess on Veuve Clicquot Yellow Label.  Could be more like 60 quid.
 
But hey you want BREXIT. ;)

 


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 December 2018, 07:56:44 pm
Quote
So why don't we just not put a tariff on it then
I totally agree! :)   We can do that by REMAINING in the EU. :)   Tariff free trade! :)   


But sadly when we leave, or rather if we leave under NO DEAL, as you seem to prefer, then we will be a third party country operating under WTO rules.

 I’m not going to pretend thatI know the WTO rules on booze and tariffs.  But I believe the EU places a 30% tariff on imported wine from third party countries.


 
So um, yeah, I might be a bit out with my price guess on Veuve Clicquot Yellow Label.  Could be more like 60 quid.
 
But hey you want BREXIT. ;)

 



I added stuff at the same time as your reply
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 December 2018, 07:59:42 pm
Quote
So why don't we just not put a tariff on it then
I totally agree! :)   We can do that by REMAINING in the EU. :)   Tariff free trade! :)   

And also OUT.
 
Quote
But I believe the EU places a 30% tariff on imported wine from third party countries.
WE wont be in the EU so we can do what we like, we don't have to have any tariffs on food.


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 December 2018, 08:19:45 pm
Quote
WE wont be in the EU so we can do what we like, we don't have to have any tariffs on food.
 
Hopefully mtread who has some expertise in customs will be able to put us in the picture.
 
But I don’t think it’s a matter of just doing as we please, as again we will be under WTO rules.
 
And OK, so say we can import tariff free food and drink from the EU.  Can you explain how that makes sense Fazersharp, when the EU will treat us exactly as they currently treat all other third party countries.  What you seem to be suggesting is no import tariff on EU booze, yet we might see 30% slapped on Scottish Whisky heading to Europe.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 December 2018, 08:45:56 pm
Quote
WE wont be in the EU so we can do what we like, we don't have to have any tariffs on food.
 
Hopefully mtread who has some expertise in customs will be able to put us in the picture.
 
But I don’t think it’s a matter of just doing as we please, as again we will be under WTO rules.
 
And OK, so say we can import tariff free food and drink from the EU.  Can you explain how that makes sense Fazersharp, when the EU will treat us exactly as they currently treat all other third party countries.  What you seem to be suggesting is no import tariff on EU booze, yet we might see 30% slapped on Scottish Whisky heading to Europe.
 
Its both booze and food. Your scaremongering tactic was that food and booze will cost more due to tariffs, tariffs on non EU imports have to have the EU 30% on them --- that 30% collected go's straight to the EU coffers. When we leave we can chose not to add tariffs so imported food and booze will be cheaper. The treasury will not even miss the 30% because they don't get it anyway -- the EU gets it.
So what if the EU slap 30% on scot whisky, you will still have the rest of the world to sell to without the 30% EU tax added.
And it the EU slap 30% on the exports to us then --- the phrase you have promoted against brexit is that they will be cutting off their noses to spite their faces because we can replace most of the food and booze from outside the EU.     
Quote
we might see 30% slapped on Scottish Whisky heading to Europe.
And that's it isn't it, there it is -- the problem with all the remainers they only want to remain for self serving selfish reasons.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 December 2018, 08:57:39 pm
Just to make one thing clear........ we won't be leaving in a No Deal WTO scenario :)


It just won't happen.


So all those tariff issues are hypothetical.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 27 December 2018, 09:05:34 pm
As hypothetical as you not taking this thread seriously you mean ?  :lol 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 December 2018, 09:12:23 pm
Just to make one thing clear........ we won't be leaving in a No Deal WTO scenario :)


It just won't happen.


So all those tariff issues are hypothetical.
So Mr tax duty man I am correct in what I have said then about the tariffs. I don't mind waiting while you google it. You have conveniently completely side stepped my tariff points.
The tariff point was brought up to disprove VNAs scaremongers about food/booze prices increasing because of tariffs. I have pointed out that we wont even need to have ANY tariffs on EU food if we do not want to have them and there will be FOC all the EU can do about it. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 December 2018, 09:32:42 pm
Quote
Just to make one thing clear........ we won't be leaving in a No Deal WTO scenario :)
 
 
It just won't happen.
 
 
So all those tariff issues are hypothetical.

I would like to think that will 100% be the case.  But we’ve got a parliament right now that seems utterly incompetent.  They just spent almost a whole day debating what the Labour leader did, or did not say, under his breath when we are facing an economic and constitutional crisis.


Certainly, many companies have made no NO DEAL BREXIT preparations.  On the other hand, many companies large and small have been buying up warehouse space in both the UK and EU in order to stock pile goods as they fear a NO DEAL BREXIT could bury them.  They ain’t spending all that cash on stock and storage for fun.


So whilst I agree 100% with you that a NO DEAL exit would be complete and utter stupidity and incompetence, and indeed that parliament should act to block it, I am not 100% sure that the foccing idiots will.


Quote
So what if the EU slap 30% on scot whisky, you will still have the rest of the world to sell to without the 30% EU tax added.


Well 30% of our whisky exports are to the EU.  It’s a solid market too, and right on our doorstep.  Further substantial % is exported tariff free to 40 other countries around the globe that we enjoy free trade deals with via the EU.  The Scotch Whisky Association estimates and immediate 53 million quid cost to the industry in the event of a NO DEAL at the end of march.  That does not take into account the long term impact.  Costs will also rise due to tariffs on cereals, glass and machinery - ie production costs will rise..   The Scotch Whisky Association steadfastly opposes a NO DEAL BREXIT.  It will hit the whisky industry hard.
Quote
we might see 30% slapped on Scottish Whisky heading to Europe.

And that's it isn't it, there it is -- the problem with all the remainers they only want to remain for self serving selfish reasons.
Scotch Whisky accounts for 1/5th value of all UK food and drink. It won’t just hit our industry in Scotland hard, it’s will be a major loss for the UK exchequer.   So I am at a loss as to how it is you see this as selfish.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 December 2018, 09:39:51 pm

And that's it isn't it, there it is -- the problem with all the remainers they only want to remain for self serving selfish reasons.
Quote
Scotch Whisky accounts for 1/5th value of all UK food and drink. It won’t just hit our industry in Scotland hard, it’s will be a major loss for the UK exchequer.   So I am at a loss as to how it is you see this as selfish.
 
Selfish because - need I remind you that YOU do not want to be part of the UK so why pretend you care. I think you are not thinking straight --- perhaps a little too many Christmas drams me thinks.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 27 December 2018, 10:00:17 pm
I hope Theresa is reading this thread, I really do. I've learned so much about the EU and brexit, hope she's been taking notes. I still don't give a toss about any of it. We voted out could have when the other way but it didn't get over it. Greece is focced, but the sun still shines on the grapes and wine is dirt cheap there. If it comes to it i'll distil my own spirits and brew my own beer if need be. It'll sort itself out eventually just like the millennium bug. Now where did I put that drink  . . . hic
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 December 2018, 10:10:08 pm
Watching Parliament Live after work this afo, Mrs May was on top form. We're lucky we have her in charge. So glad she was victorious in that leadership challenge nonsense. Dignified, resolute and determined :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 27 December 2018, 10:15:10 pm
Celticdog.....This is my way of thinking exactly.....All the scaremongering and doom and gloom is only relevant if we don't do anything to counteract it....Which we will and can.
As for the Scottish whiskey industry being worse off.....that's a classic example
 according to this...
https://www.insider.co.uk/news/scotch-whisky-could-benefit-brexit-12064241 (https://www.insider.co.uk/news/scotch-whisky-could-benefit-brexit-12064241)


And as for brewing your own.....Am already on that one...you can stick your French, German and Italian up your rectum Mr Euro.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 December 2018, 10:24:38 pm
 
Quote
Selfish because - need I remind you that YOU do not want to be part of the UK so why pretend you care. I think you are not thinking straight --- perhaps a little too many Christmas drams me thinks.

First and foremost, I want to be part of the EU.  Yes, I would love to see an Independent Scotland, but REMAINING in the EU, and continuity in doing so is a priority.


And Scotland wants to see the UK in the EU, and if we were to become an Independent Nation one day, we want to be in the EU and we’ll want our most important trading partner England to also continue with EU membership.


And how the hell is it selfish?  We in Scotland don’t elect Tory governments, we didn’t want that darn referendum in 2016 and we voted decisively to REMAIN.  But what you and your merry gang want to do is impose your will on us and in doing so trash our hard built industry, industry that you have been happy to benefit from.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 December 2018, 10:29:10 pm
Quote
And how the hell is it selfish?  We in Scotland don’t elect Tory governments, we didn’t want that darn referendum in 2016 and we voted decisively to REMAIN.  But what you and your merry gang want to do is impose your will on us and in doing so trash our hard built industry, industry that you have been happy to benefit from.
 
I hear that TR loves your whisky.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 December 2018, 11:56:46 pm
Quote
Watching Parliament Live after work this afo, Mrs May was on top form. We're lucky we have her in charge. So glad she was victorious in that leadership challenge nonsense. Dignified, resolute and determined

I'll ask you again after Jan 14th  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 December 2018, 12:42:10 pm
So, all of the imports from Bordeaux, Burgundy and Loire are going to be replaced by Dazza's wine made from sheep droppings  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 December 2018, 06:32:08 pm
Quote
So, all of the imports from Bordeaux, Burgundy and Loire are going to be replaced by Dazza's wine made from sheep droppings  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Maybe the French will snap it all up.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 28 December 2018, 07:38:56 pm
Quote
So, all of the imports from Bordeaux, Burgundy and Loire are going to be replaced by Dazza's wine made from sheep droppings  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Maybe the French will snap it all up.

If there's any left for the French, they're welcome to buy it but it'll cost them 30% more. :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 December 2018, 07:45:18 pm
Quote
Quote[/size]So, all of the imports from Bordeaux, Burgundy and Loire are going to be replaced by Dazza's wine made from sheep droppings 


Maybe the French will snap it all up.
</blockquote>

If there's any left for the French, they're welcome to buy it but it'll cost them 30% more. [/font]

The French have previous for setting fire to English lamb produce. Heaven help them if they do it to Dazza's wine.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 December 2018, 10:22:32 pm
 :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 December 2018, 11:40:42 pm
Quote
If there's any left for the French, they're welcome to buy it but it'll cost them 30% more.
But of course making wine for sale without an Excise License is an offense under the Wine and Made Wine Regulations 1989  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 28 December 2018, 11:53:01 pm
Yes, I would love to see an Independent Scotland, but REMAINING in the EU, and continuity in doing so is a priority.


You really are confused, aren't you  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 29 December 2018, 12:12:24 am
Quote
If there's any left for the French, they're welcome to buy it but it'll cost them 30% more.
But of course making wine for sale without an Excise License is an offense under the Wine and Made Wine Regulations 1989  ;)
Spoken like a true civil servant.....report me if you like...... Go on, make yourself look like an even
 bigger knob.  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 12:20:37 am
But you're not selling it are you. Surely nobody would part with good money  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 29 December 2018, 12:29:18 am
Well if I was.....Do you think I'd admit it to you.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 29 December 2018, 12:33:12 am
So, all of the imports from Bordeaux, Burgundy and Loire are going to be replaced by Dazza's wine made from sheep droppings  :lol
And BTW, those Demijon's are full of my sloe gin....My wine is kept in barrels like any self respecting wine maker. :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 December 2018, 06:47:57 am

Quote
Watching Parliament Live after work this afo, Mrs May was on top form. We're lucky we have her in charge. So glad she was victorious in that leadership challenge nonsense. Dignified, resolute and determined

I'll ask you again after Jan 14th  :)



You're more than welcome to, but I can tell you now that the answer will be the same. It's not her fault those MP's choose to ignore the majority vote of their constituents in the referendum when they are voting on this issue in the lobbys.


It suits me fine if she loses the vote, we'll just come out with no deal at the end of March :)


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 11:14:43 am
Quote
Yes, I would love to see an Independent Scotland, but REMAINING in the EU, and continuity in doing so is a priority.You really are confused, aren't you 

Welcome back, but we've moved on. We're now talking about Dazza's flogging his strange concoctions that make you go blind (especially if you're French). That is until I come round and arrest him  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 29 December 2018, 11:39:28 am
So, all of the imports from Bordeaux, Burgundy and Loire are going to be replaced by Dazza's wine made from sheep droppings  :lol
Going to need a bit more evidence than that I'm afraid.  :D

Quote
Yes, I would love to see an Independent Scotland, but REMAINING in the EU, and continuity in doing so is a priority.You really are confused, aren't you 

Welcome back, but we've moved on. We're now talking about Dazza's flogging his strange concoctions that make you go blind (especially if you're French). That is until I come round and arrest him  :)

Would love to see an ex customs pen pusher attempt to come round and arrest me.... Make sure you're wearing your POLITE hi vi so everyone knows you're a twat. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 December 2018, 12:07:03 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvhekOXXcAATFkL.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 29 December 2018, 12:40:12 pm
Am i the only one who hasn't got a clue what Brexit means or what it's all about?
I don't believe i am.
I'll still be going to the same job if/when it happens, still get taxed beyond belief, and all politicians will still be lying bullshitting useless cunts.
Same as whenever we see a new prime minister, a thankless job which you take on to then be traditionally shot down from, a lot like the England football manager. (you can't say a word about that VNA, you have the Scottish team, lol)


And no matter how much you talk or argue about it, we will still get mugged off somehow, no matter what the result is......which as far as i can gather, we had a vote, and we're leaving Europe, so we supposedly don't have to put up with their dickhead rules and decisions.
My main gripe so far is that my local is a Wetherspoons pub and the stubborn political bellend has replaced very fine French Brandy with crass American and Australian liquid earwax just to make HIS point. That's just wrong, that's like making McDonald's a vegan eatery overnight.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 December 2018, 12:55:36 pm
 
Quote
I'll still be going to the same job if/when it happens, still get taxed beyond belief, and all politicians will still be lying bullshitting useless cunts.

Well you could say so.  After all BREXIT is a lie itself.
Quote
And no matter how much you talk or argue about it, we will still get mugged off somehow, no matter what the result is......

More so after BREXIT.  A weaker pound, rising inflation, a slump in inward investment, a sharp increase in manufactures leaving for the EU market that they came here to be part of.  Scrapping of EU employment legislation.  A hire and fire culture in a low wage economy.  The working class laid to waste again, the rich richer and ever more powerful, laughing all the way to their untaxed banks.
Quote
which as far as i can gather, we had a vote, and we're leaving Europe, so we supposedly don't have to put up with their dickhead rules and decisions.

Yes daylight headlamps, umm curved bananas and something about Dazza’s Great Grandfather – well these so far are the only reasons the LEAVE foccers have come up with.


The truth is people are pissed off, pissed off with decades of governments that looks after the few and fucks the many.  So given a ball they kicked it and kicked it hard – why – cos the few told em it was all the fault of the EU. You gotta blame something - you gotta tell the masses who they should blame.

 
Quote
My main gripe so far is that my local is a Wetherspoons pub and the stubborn political bellend has replaced very fine French Brandy with crass American and Australian liquid earwax just to make HIS point. That's just wrong, that's like making McDonald's a vegan eatery overnight.

Yeah Tim Martin is a dick.  My local Spoons has given up repeatedly putting their message to Theresa May poster up in the window.  The punters keep tearing it up.
 
Meanwhile of course nobody in the LEAVE campaign taled of leaving the customs union or the single market during the campaign in 2016, but give em an inch and they’ll take a yard.  This isn’t about democracy, it isn’t about the people, it’s about the few grabbing everything they can get.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY&feature=youtu.be (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY&feature=youtu.be)

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 December 2018, 01:22:42 pm

Quote
which as far as i can gather, we had a vote, and we're leaving Europe, so we supposedly don't have to put up with their dickhead rules and decisions.
Yes daylight headlamps, umm curved bananas and something about Dazza’s Great Grandfather – well these so far are the only reasons the LEAVE foccers have come up with.

You can add cheaper food and drink to that list now by removing EU tariffs.
And so far all VNA cares about is scottish exports of whisky.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 December 2018, 01:30:51 pm
 
Quote
You can add cheaper food and drink to that list now by removing EU tariffs.
Single market Fazersharp.  28 countries trading as one.  There are no tariffs.  Further we have free trade access to a further 50 countries via EU free trade agreements. 

If we do a NO DEAL (which parliament should act to prevent) then we loose all that.  The pound will slump, import and export costs will rise, everybody in business will be drowning in customs bureaucracy and according to even your favoured economist our manufacturing industry will be trashed.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 December 2018, 02:04:18 pm
Am i the only one who hasn't got a clue what Brexit means or what it's all about?
I don't believe i am.
No you're not the only one. Far from it. There's loads of people who either don't know or don't care about it.
To condense it into a nutshell....Remainers tell lies, Leavers tell the truth, The EU is rotten to the core and we're coming out :woot
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 December 2018, 02:29:57 pm
Quote
You can add cheaper food and drink to that list now by removing EU tariffs.
Single market Fazersharp.  28 countries trading as one.  There are no tariffs.  Further we have free trade access to a further 50 countries via EU free trade agreements. 

If we do a NO DEAL (which parliament should act to prevent) then we loose all that.   
Rubbish.We will trade on WTO rules that set maximum tariffs BUT allow any member to set any amount of low (including ZERO) tariffs.The EU tariffs I was referring to are not EU to EU ones because they do not exist I was Obviously referring the ones that you have conveniently ignored which is the rest of the world. Currently within the EU we HAVE to apply what is called The Common Customs Tariff to the rest of the world which varies depending on the goods involved - anything from 0-36%.Leaving on WTO rules means that we can set our own which can be zero if we chose. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 03:15:21 pm
Quote
Leavers tell the truth,
I'm sorry. I've just split my sides laughing  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 03:24:43 pm
Quote
Rubbish.We will trade on WTO rules that set maximum tariffs BUT allow any member to set any amount of low (including ZERO) tariffs.The EU tariffs I was referring to are not EU to EU ones because they do not exist I was Obviously referring the ones that you have conveniently ignored which is the rest of the world. Currently within the EU we HAVE to apply what is called The Common Customs Tariff to the rest of the world which varies depending on the goods involved - anything from 0-36%.Leaving on WTO rules means that we can set our own which can be zero if we chose.
If only it was as simple as that......
If you make your import tariffs very low or zero, other countries will flood you with cheap goods. This will wreck your home production and also other exporting countries will take retaliatory action. We're not just talking foodstuffs here. It's also not just about the duty rate. It's also about import caps, inward processing and most important of all exports.
This is why we have trade deals....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 December 2018, 03:35:29 pm
Quote
If you make your import tariffs very low or zero, other countries will flood you with cheap goods
So we would be flooded with cheap Japanese whisky.  And the UK's biggest food and drink export Scotch Whisky, a 4 billion plus a year industry, would be destroyed. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 December 2018, 03:39:40 pm
Quote
Rubbish.We will trade on WTO rules that set maximum tariffs BUT allow any member to set any amount of low (including ZERO) tariffs.The EU tariffs I was referring to are not EU to EU ones because they do not exist I was Obviously referring the ones that you have conveniently ignored which is the rest of the world. Currently within the EU we HAVE to apply what is called The Common Customs Tariff to the rest of the world which varies depending on the goods involved - anything from 0-36%.Leaving on WTO rules means that we can set our own which can be zero if we chose.
If only it was as simple as that......
If you make your import tariffs very low or zero, other countries will flood you with cheap goods. This will wreck your home production
We are talking about food/drink goods that we import because we can not grow them here so it wont wreck home production.
And by your own words it will only wreck production of sweeds and turnips. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 December 2018, 03:41:52 pm
Quote
If you make your import tariffs very low or zero, other countries will flood you with cheap goods
So we would be flooded with cheap Japanese whisky.  And the UK's biggest food and drink export Scotch Whisky, a 4 billion plus a year industry, would be destroyed. 
Great, why should we care about that.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 04:17:14 pm
Quote
We are talking about food/drink goods that we import because we can not grow them here so it wont wreck home production. And by your own words it will only wreck production of sweeds and turnips.

Not forgetting Dazza's plonk.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 December 2018, 04:25:56 pm
 
Quote
Great, why should we care about that.
So basically, you are with Professor Minford, who stands alone as an economist, and wish to see the destruction of UK industry. 
What you are saying is that LEAVERS want a NO DEAL BREXIT so you can destroy this great country of ours.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 05:34:05 pm
Just to point out again :
1. Not all Leavers (by any means) want a No Deal Brexit
2. There isn't going to be a No Deal Brexit, no matter how much they want it, because
3. Parliament will decide what to do next
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 December 2018, 05:54:12 pm
Quote
Great, why should we care about that.
so you can destroy this great country of ours.
 
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin This from the man who doesn't want to be a part of this great country of ours.
 To the leavers trait list we can now add two faced.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 December 2018, 06:15:17 pm
Quote
Leavers tell the truth,
I'm sorry. I've just split my sides laughing  :rollin
Good job it happened now because according to Remain there won't be any doctors or nurses left here after the end of March. I should get down there quick ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 December 2018, 06:21:16 pm
Just to point out again :
1. Not all Leavers (by any means) want a No Deal Brexit
2. There isn't going to be a No Deal Brexit, no matter how much they want it, because
3. Parliament will decide what to do next
Seriously, am I missing something here. If Parliament votes down (rejects) May's Brexit deal in the second week of January and nothing more happens between then and the end of March, surely we just leave with no deal?. Without an Article 50 extension we automatically cease to be a member of The EU at the end of March don't we?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 06:30:07 pm
Quote
Good job it happened now because according to Remain there won't be any doctors or nurses left here after the end of March. I should get down there quick

I'm giving blood next week. I'll ask  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 06:42:01 pm
Quote
Seriously, am I missing something here. If Parliament votes down (rejects) May's Brexit deal in the second week of January and nothing more happens between then and the end of March, surely we just leave with no deal?. Without an Article 50 extension we automatically cease to be a member of The EU at the end of March don't we?.
Yes but that won't happen. If Parliament votes down May's deal (including any changes she makes to it) the government will extend Article 50 while something is sorted out. All the signs are there. The EU has said the UK can extend without permission. Amber Rudd (May's spokeswoman) is looking to get consent for other options (ie EFTA & EEA). Mogg and Co failed to get her ousted and have spoiled it for another 12 months. All of the opposition parties (perhaps apart from the DUP) have said they won't allow a No Deal to go through. So it's Mogg and Co + the DUP versus the rest.
So there is a lot of bluff, double bluff and brinkmanship going on at the moment on all sides.
All to play for in injury time.  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 December 2018, 07:03:46 pm
Quote
Seriously, am I missing something here. If Parliament votes down (rejects) May's Brexit deal in the second week of January and nothing more happens between then and the end of March, surely we just leave with no deal?. Without an Article 50 extension we automatically cease to be a member of The EU at the end of March don't we?.
Yes but that won't happen. If Parliament votes down May's deal (including any changes she makes to it) the government will extend Article 50 while something is sorted out. All the signs are there. The EU has said the UK can extend without permission. Amber Rudd (May's spokeswoman) is looking to get consent for other options (ie EFTA & EEA). Mogg and Co failed to get her ousted and have spoiled it for another 12 months. All of the opposition parties (perhaps apart from the DUP) have said they won't allow a No Deal to go through. So it's Mogg and Co + the DUP versus the rest.
So there is a lot of bluff, double bluff and brinkmanship going on at the moment on all sides.
All to play for in injury time.  :)
Whatever happened to "No deal is better than a bad deal" 

Quote
The EU has said the UK can extend without permission.
Well of course they have because they are scared sh1tless that that 35billion is going to slip out of their hands.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 29 December 2018, 07:30:00 pm
Quote
Seriously, am I missing something here. If Parliament votes down (rejects) May's Brexit deal in the second week of January and nothing more happens between then and the end of March, surely we just leave with no deal?. Without an Article 50 extension we automatically cease to be a member of The EU at the end of March don't we?.
Yes but that won't happen. If Parliament votes down May's deal (including any changes she makes to it) the government will extend Article 50 while something is sorted out. All the signs are there. The EU has said the UK can extend without permission. Amber Rudd (May's spokeswoman) is looking to get consent for other options (ie EFTA & EEA). Mogg and Co failed to get her ousted and have spoiled it for another 12 months. All of the opposition parties (perhaps apart from the DUP) have said they won't allow a No Deal to go through. So it's Mogg and Co + the DUP versus the rest.
So there is a lot of bluff, double bluff and brinkmanship going on at the moment on all sides.
All to play for in injury time.  :)
Whatever happened to "No deal is better than a bad deal" 

Quote
The EU has said the UK can extend without permission.
Well of course they have because they are scared sh1tless that that 35billion is going to slip out of their hands.

And to put that 35 billion into perspective..A million seconds is 11 weeks. a billion seconds is something like 32 years....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 07:49:33 pm
Quote
Whatever happened to "No deal is better than a bad deal" 
It's a bluff (and always was) to frighten wavering Tories into backing her deal.
Quote
Well of course they have because they are scared sh1tless that that 35billion is going to slip out of their hands.

More likely they are throwing her a lifeline. There would have been far more in her talks with the EU than we are being told.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 29 December 2018, 08:57:13 pm
Odd isn't it. Apparently, we Leavers are a bunch of thick twats who don't understand this business. But Remainers want another referendum whereby the youngsters, who have just left school and have no experience of life/politics/economics/social justice/war/poverty/work/finance etc etc, will bring them a victory.

Shame on you, for wishing to using the gullibility of youth to overturn the wisdom of generations of Englishmen
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 10:34:03 pm
Quote
the wisdom of generations of Englishmen
Many of whom will be dead by the time the full effects of Brexit are realised
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 December 2018, 10:48:40 pm

Quote
the wisdom of generations of Englishmen
Many of whom will be dead by the time the full effects of Brexit are realised


So do you believe the older generation should have been excluded from the vote because statistically they're more likely to vote Leave?.







Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 December 2018, 11:00:22 pm
Not at all. Nor do I believe youth is gullible and that only the older generation know better.
Just pointing out facts (again)


Whoops I was forgetting. Leavers don't like facts because facts disprove their illogical arguments.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 29 December 2018, 11:47:47 pm

Here's a few facts for you to digest..... Oh yes, you refuse to click on any of my links for fear of hearing the truth
getting a virus. :rolleyes 
For anyone else interested, check out the bit about WTO.

 Actually, Sir  John Redwood has wrote a cracking piece on why civil servants want to stay in the EU.










http://facts4eu.org/news_decc_2018.shtml#pres (http://facts4eu.org/news_decc_2018.shtml#pres)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 30 December 2018, 12:11:34 am
Here's another fact........You can't arrest anybody......cheers :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 December 2018, 01:16:26 am
 
Quote
Shame on you, for wishing to using the gullibility of youth to overturn the wisdom of generations of Englishmen
So says Agricola.
 
Quote
Am i the only one who hasn't got a clue what Brexit means or what it's all about?
So says Darrsi
 
I note that it is for Englishmen to decide.  Not Welsh, not Irish and clearly not Scots. :eek



Other than that,  I am not trying to rip the pish oot of Agricola or Darrsi.


Just wanna make the point that we are a representative democracy.


As Mtread says, at the end of the day parliament will decide. 

And you know what, if they don’t? 

Well then our democracy is defunct.  Finished.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 December 2018, 12:01:59 pm
The truth is Dazza, that I don't follow your links because unlike others you can't be bothered to type out the relevant issues. Just posting links and saying 'read this' is a lazy way of responding, and I can't be bothered  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Oldgit on 30 December 2018, 12:36:08 pm

Just lets GTFOOI ASAP.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 December 2018, 01:10:10 pm
Quote
Just lets GTFOOI ASAP.
Well OK.  But I'd still like to know why folks wanna do this.  So 49 pages in and so far we have;
 Foc-u BREXITEER reasons for leaving the EU so far.
1.       Daylight running lamps
2.       Graded Bananas
3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather
4.       Cheap food and drink imports (chlorinated chicken, GM modified crops etc which will put our producers out of buisness) from outside the EU and the EU's 50 free trade agreements.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 30 December 2018, 02:40:07 pm
The truth is Dazza, that I don't follow your links because unlike others you can't be bothered to type out the relevant issues. Just posting links and saying 'read this' is a lazy way of responding, and I can't be bothered  :lol

Mtread, you wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit you on the left testicle. Ignorance is bliss as they say.
Here's another little fact....there are a few coppers on here probably reading this who would've made many arrests in their time. I bet none of them would have threatened to come round and arrest someone, even in jest.
The fact that you did tells me you've actually never made an arrest or had the power to do so.
You are are a regular Walter Mitty with delusions of grandeur.
This is the real world mate, not your little cosseted civil servant world.
Wake up. Expand your knowledge, read the other point of views or forever remain narrow minded.
And as a bonus, you won't make yourself look like such a knob. :lol





Just wanna make the point that we are a representative democracy.




Well then our democracy is defunct.  Finished.
 



Just keeps getting better doesn't it.....Now, all of a sudden VNA is concerned about democracy  :rollin


And you keep on posting the same things like a broken record when the real reasons either appear to have gone over your head or you've chosen to ignore them.
The real truth here is that both your responses and belittling attitudes haven't done the remain argument any good at all.
Another interesting fact was your reaction  to the video I posted with the two lovely gentleman, one ranting on about what he's going to do to anyone who converts to Christianity.
You were "offended" by who's page it came from rather than the content.....Oh dear.... You, are the reason these people are emboldened and feel they can post such offensive things and without you realising, you are the reason why support for your arch enemy "Tommy Robinson " is going to grow and grow.
So, sit back and enjoy the fruits of you being a snowflake.
You really are both  blinded by your self righteousness.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 December 2018, 02:55:10 pm
Quote
Quote from: mtread on Today at 12:01:59 PM
 
    The truth is Dazza, that I don't follow your links because unlike others you can't be bothered to type out the relevant issues. Just posting links and saying 'read this' is a lazy way of responding, and I can't be bothered  :lol
 
 
Mtread, you wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit you on the left testicle. Ignorance is bliss as they say.
Here's another little fact....there are a few coppers on here probably reading this who would've made many arrests in their time. I bet none of them would have threatened to come round and arrest someone, even in jest.
The fact that you did tells me you've actually never made an arrest or had the power to do so.
You are are a regular Walter Mitty with delusions of grandeur.
This is the real world mate, not your little cosseted civil servant world.
Wake up. Expand your knowledge, read the other point of views or forever remain narrow minded.
And as a bonus, you won't make yourself look like such a knob. :lol
 
 
Quote from: VNA on Today at 01:16:26 AM
 
 
 
 
    Just wanna make the point that we are a representative democracy.
 
 
 
 
    Well then our democracy is defunct.  Finished.
     
 
 
 
 
Just keeps getting better doesn't it.....Now, all of a sudden VNA is concerned about democracy  :rollin
 
 
And you keep on posting the same things like a broken record when the real reasons either appear to have gone over your head or you've chosen to ignore them.
The real truth here is that both your responses and belittling attitudes haven't done the remain argument any good at all.
Another interesting fact was your reaction  to the video I posted with the two lovely gentleman, one ranting on about what he's going to do to anyone who converts to Christianity.
You were "offended" by who's page it came from rather than the content.....Oh dear.... You, are the reason these people are emboldened and feel they can post such offensive things and without you realising, you are the reason why support for your arch enemy "Tommy Robinson " is going to grow and grow.
So, sit back and enjoy the fruits of you being a snowflake.
You really are both  blinded by your self righteousness.
Video?  Don’t remember that, don’t think I reacted to it, possibly cos I’ve never seen it.
Anyway, Dazza, go for a walk or something.
Smoke a joint, whatever, chill out dude.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 December 2018, 03:06:48 pm
Quote
you've actually never made an arrest or had the power to do so.
And that is where you are.......... wrong  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 December 2018, 03:25:43 pm
 You know I still can’t figure out where this is gonna go.
Anyway, today I’m thinking.
1.       May fails to get her deal past parliament
2.       JC calls for a vote of no confidence.
3.       JC looses vote when DUP votes with Tory party.
4.       Parliament in absolute deadlock and turmoil.  Government has failed.
5.       MP’s act across party lines and vote through a second referendum.
6.       Eventually the question is Cancel article 50 or NO DEAL
7.       The nightmare campaign begins.
8.       The people aren’t quite crazy enough to throw themselves off a cliff, so article 50 is cancelled.  It goes through with a substantial majority – people want an end this this shit.


 
That’ll all take a bit of time.  So, by about this time next year we will have cancelled article 50, we will remain as full members of the EU, and most importantly we will still have our veto.


Will there be riots?  No.  The public has pretty much had enough.   The majority will be thankful that we can get back to normal.


 
That’s my thinking today.  But I might change my mind tomorrow. :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 30 December 2018, 05:20:41 pm
Quote
Prior to EU membership, i never had to pay 20% tax on anything i bought
That’s incorrect, as I’ve pointed out before VAT replaced the purchase tax in the UK.
Quote
So tell me again, how I'm better off in the EU
Agricola you continue to blame the EU for the policies of successive UK governments, and it appears local councils too. :eek
You were given a ball to kick, and like many others you kicked it hard.  But I’m afraid you’ve kicked the wrong ball.



So tell me how Im better off in the EU then


Still waiting


Still waiting


Still waiting
#




Still waiting
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 30 December 2018, 06:05:02 pm
4.       Cheap food and drink imports 
So what happened to all your scaremongering about increased food prices. Looks like that one was proved false and you now agree that there is no need for food prices to increase.
 But now that you have been shown that you were wrong you have resorted to agreeing it can be cheaper but it will be poisoned instead.  :z   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 December 2018, 06:16:37 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA on Today at 01:10:10 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg289789.html#msg289789[/url])<blockquote>4.       Cheap food and drink imports 
</blockquote>So what happened to all your scaremongering about increased food prices. Looks like that one was proved false and you now agree that there is no need for food prices to increase.
 But now that you have been shown that you were wrong you have resorted to agreeing it can be cheaper but it will be poisoned instead.  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/z.gif[/url])   

Your reason not mine.  I'm just listing the reasons foccers say they want to leave.  Almost 50 pages and that's all youse have come up with. :eek

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 December 2018, 07:07:53 pm
Apart from food prices, how about imported food availability? Held up because of additional Customs controls?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 30 December 2018, 07:13:53 pm
Apart from food prices, how about imported food availability? Held up because of additional Customs controls?


Oh dear, here we go, another scare tactic, no food on the supermarket shelves  :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 30 December 2018, 07:30:40 pm
Apart from food prices, how about imported food availability? Held up because of additional Customs controls?
IF there is any through lack of planning then so - be- it we will get through it and as the first couple of weeks go by then it will sort itself out because there would only be a delay for the first batches and thereafter if there is still a delay then it will not be noticed as everything will of caught up wit itself . No one will die through lack of strawberry's in march or scarce tomatoes. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 December 2018, 07:55:14 pm
It's more complicated than that. At the moment food on lorries from France goes through unchecked roll on/roll off the ferries. After we leave (without a deal) all lorries will need export/import paperwork and will require checks. There will be continuous delays on both sides of the channel. Perishable food perishes. European suppliers will find other markets for their goods to avoid the hassle.
Good job we've got turnips  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 30 December 2018, 07:56:21 pm
im avoiding the news until we are (hopefully) out.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 December 2018, 07:58:39 pm
Quote
im avoiding the news until we are (hopefully) out.....
Stick January 14th in your diary. Worth another look then.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 30 December 2018, 08:02:41 pm
will do mate..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 December 2018, 08:24:31 pm
Quote
im avoiding the news until we are (hopefully) out.....
See my post 1211 for my prediction on what will happen next.
But basically I think parliament will realise agreeing a deal is not possible, because every possibe deal is worse than staying in and NO DEAL is not worth even thinking about.
So by the end of 2019, one way or another, article 50 will be cancelled. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 30 December 2018, 08:40:49 pm
It's more complicated than that. At the moment food on lorries from France goes through unchecked roll on/roll off the ferries. After we leave (without a deal) all lorries will need export/import paperwork and will require checks. There will be continuous delays on both sides of the channel. Perishable food perishes. European suppliers will find other markets for their goods to avoid the hassle.
Good job we've got turnips  :)
This is what frustrates me.
If our government was serious, there would be greenhouses sprouting up all over the country to provide us with our perishable foods all year round.
There really is no need to rely on Spanish tomatoes, peppers or cucumbers when we grow them here in Kent.
This also sends out a clear message to the EU that we are serious and prepared to become as self sufficient as possible
For those who won't click links
Google  Thanet Earth
For any normal people....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanet_Earth

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 30 December 2018, 09:00:57 pm
once Cameron got the result he should have immediately assembled a team of lawyers, businessmen, eu experts etc etc to not only get us the best result but prove to the world and the remainers it was not only doable but would be a resounding success. sadly, hes a politician, so we all knew that wasn't going to happen. im just hoping against hope that whatever else happens, we still get out. everything is sortable from that point
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 December 2018, 09:13:24 pm
 
Quote
once Cameron got the result he should have immediately assembled a team of lawyers, businessmen, eu experts etc etc to not only get us the best result but prove to the world and the remainers it was not only doable but would be a resounding success.

But the problem is the vast majority of economists are all in agreement.  That is that there is no deal that is better than the deal we have right now.
 
This is just a decades old obsession of the Tory party.  It started off about the Tory party, and with a soon to be deadlocked government we will shortly be able to see that all still about the Tory party.
 
Meanwhile while the UK obsesses over trying to do something very stupid, and can get nothing else done, well the rest of the world is going to leave us behind.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 December 2018, 09:16:01 pm
Quote
once Cameron got the result he should have immediately assembled a team of lawyers, businessmen, eu experts etc etc to not only get us the best result but prove to the world and the remainers it was not only doable but would be a resounding success. sadly, hes a politician, so we all knew that wasn't going to happen. im just hoping against hope that whatever else happens, we still get out. everything is sortable from that point
Do you know I agree with everything you've said, even as a Remainer.


I think we end up leaving, but joining EFTA /Single Market. Or doing an individual deal with the EU that very closely matches that plus some immigration /residency concessions. Not my preferred option, but it fits with 'Leave' and at the same time protects UK exporters and solves the Irish Border.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 30 December 2018, 09:28:30 pm
blimey mate...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 December 2018, 09:58:39 pm
 
Quote
I think we end up leaving, but joining EFTA /Single Market. Or doing an individual deal with the EU that very closely matches that plus some immigration /residency concessions. Not my preferred option, but it fits with 'Leave' and at the same time protects UK exporters and solves the Irish Border.

It might respect the Good Friday agreement but it’s never going to fully satisfy the two countries in this Union that voted to REMAIN.


Further the fact is that all it achieves is that we become a rule taker, as opposed to a rule maker.   We would have to give up sovereignty.
 
The BREXITEERS, who were for this during the campaign, now turn it on their head and jump on that simple fact.  So you just end up in the same log jam.


I don’t know what the immigration /residency concessions would be as freedom of movement is in fact a non-issue.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 December 2018, 10:06:50 pm
 Which of course is why May called a general election.  Though she had a working majority she knew the reality was we were heading towards log jam.  She thought with Corbyn now the Labour leader she could wipe out Labour and win a landslide majority big enough not to have to worry about extreme right-wing fruitcakes in the party.  But it went tits up.


She then tried to go all presidential on us by attempting to bypass parliament, but that failed too.


We are stuck. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 December 2018, 10:42:46 pm
Quote
It might respect the Good Friday agreement but it’s never going to fully satisfy the two countries in this Union that voted to REMAIN.
Further the fact is that all it achieves is that we become a rule taker, as opposed to a rule maker.   We would have to give up sovereignty.The BREXITEERS, who were for this during the campaign, now turn it on their head and jump on that simple fact.  So you just end up in the same log jam.
I don’t know what the immigration /residency concessions would be as freedom of movement is in fact a non-issue.

It won't satisfy lots of people on all sides and in all configurations. Nothing will. It's a compromise. Yes we become a rule taker, but can exit any time in the future without going through this palaver. Freedom of movement would be part of the deal, but not indefinite residency.
As said, it's not what I want, but it's what I can see coming.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 31 December 2018, 06:55:23 pm
Apart from food prices, how about imported food availability? Held up because of additional Customs controls?


Oh dear, here we go, another scare tactic, no food on the supermarket shelves  :z




and the next one will be the lights going out :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 31 December 2018, 07:07:44 pm

Apart from food prices, how about imported food availability? Held up because of additional Customs controls?


Oh dear, here we go, another scare tactic, no food on the supermarket shelves  :z




and the next one will be the lights going out :)


I've heard that the sky is going to fall in over the UK.


Mind you, if the Remainers project fear doesn't manage to reverse Brexit they'll be hoping it does fall down after the end of March so that they can be 'proved right' ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 31 December 2018, 07:10:00 pm
I think it's 'Project Fear' vs 'Project Fantasy' - everything's going to be great  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 31 December 2018, 07:15:19 pm
Incidentally, when I agreed with Ogri48 earlier in the thread,  I had what's now known as a 'YamFazFan moment'. Don't know how that happened  :wall  And I haven't even started drinking yet!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 December 2018, 07:16:40 pm
Like I say I don't think pariament will be able to agree a deal.
Parliament will not accept NO DEAL.
Therefore we REMAIN in the EU.
By this time next year it will all be over.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 December 2018, 07:20:54 pm
Quote
Incidentally, when I agreed with Ogri48 earlier in the thread,  I had what's now known as a 'YamFazFan moment'. Don't know how that happened  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wall.gif[/url])  And I haven't even started drinking yet!

I wouldn't worry about it.
The only thing we can be sure about in all this, is that there is nothing we can be sure about.

I've put some money on we REMAIN in the EU.  Putting aside that's what I'd like to see, I genuinely believe it's the most likely outcome.
The least likely outcome is NO DEAL.
And there's a fair chance of absolutely anything inbetween.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 31 December 2018, 07:29:56 pm

Incidentally, when I agreed with Ogri48 earlier in the thread,  I had what's now known as a 'YamFazFan moment'. Don't know how that happened  :wall  And I haven't even started drinking yet!


Yes been there, done that, got the T-shirt :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 December 2018, 09:01:39 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvxWztJWsAEBjuq.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 01 January 2019, 11:52:16 am
DEAR GRAYLING SIR. MY NAME IS PRINCE SEABORNE OF NIGERIA. I HAVE RECENTLY RECEIVED MANY FINE SHIPS AND WISH TO SHARE THEM. IF YOU CAN SEND £13,800,000 BY BANK TRANSFER, THIS WILL RELEASE THE SHIPS. THE TRANSACTION IS 100% SAFE. PLEASE RESPOND URGENTLY.

https://twitter.com/ChrisRandWrites/status/1079499026754609152
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 January 2019, 06:08:17 pm
Happy New Year from the EU  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 01 January 2019, 08:41:01 pm
that's a brilliant map mtread, love how it looks like Russia is saying- 'Sodom'
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 January 2019, 08:59:36 pm

Lets not forget that Russia is keen to see the UK exit the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 January 2019, 09:00:46 pm
Indeed  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 02 January 2019, 01:32:24 am
Wonder if this is true http://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/12/29/govt-whistleblower-uk-prepared-for-no-deal-brexit-scare-stories-absolutely-untrue/ (http://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/12/29/govt-whistleblower-uk-prepared-for-no-deal-brexit-scare-stories-absolutely-untrue/)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 January 2019, 10:46:10 am
No it isn't. When the government contracts a ferry company that doesn't have any ferries, that's usually a clue.  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 January 2019, 03:04:45 pm
 Breitbart News?  Really?

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 02 January 2019, 08:39:27 pm
.
No it isn't. When the government contracts a ferry company that doesn't have any ferries, that's usually a clue.  :)
Sadly, I think that's just the usual case of selective Government contracts being handed out to relations or close associates of government ministers.
I'd love to know if there are indeed any links between company directors and government officials.
Apparently the plans to run  freight ferries out of Ramsgate were on the table well before Brexit.
As for having no ships, I'm sure there are suitable ships all over the coast of Britain being mothballed atm.
As for the links source VNA, I'm sure it was taken from a post in the Telegraph...Although I'm not sure that's much better.
I think people have lost confidence with any news source these days.
I've seen conflicting information on google and complete bullshit on wickipedia.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 January 2019, 11:39:58 pm
The directors of Seaborne Ferries have been identified.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 04 January 2019, 10:35:28 am
The cesspit that is the EU
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=377699802997385&id=1159720410844971
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 04 January 2019, 02:12:30 pm
thats got to be the absolute ultimate gravy train...good video mate.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 January 2019, 07:23:09 pm
Quote
The cesspit that is the EU
[url]https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=377699802997385&id=1159720410844971[/url] ([url]https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=377699802997385&id=1159720410844971[/url])   « Last Edit: Today at 01:13:34 PM » ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=posthistory;topic=24678.0;msg=289952[/url])

 An anonymous film in facebook.  Hmmm.


The very first line “The European Union which imposes laws on 28 countries”
Yet surely 50 pages in we all know that the EU does not impose laws on any countries.


And of course not one anti-eu foccer here can name one piece of EU legislation (that legislation that, so we are told, impacts on every aspect of our life!) that has a negative impact on them – oh sorry other than one foccer doesnae like daylight running lamps, and um, well foc me I can’t remember the other. 



The second line of the video sets out to baffle you.


Then we are told that because nobody cares who their MEP is it’s because the EU is not meaningful.  Though lets face it, I could walk down the street right now and ask people – who is your MP?  Or Who is your MSP, or maybe who is the leader of the Tory party in Scotland right now?  I’d probably get a lot of blank looks, giggles and maybe 50% or less of folks would answer all questions correctly.  Yup the truth is people choose how much they want to be involved, that is if they even care at all.


And of course who do we have telling us how great the EU is, Nigel Farage.  Yup that stock broker tool elected by English idiots to wreck the EU. 



And one minute in there is he is telling bared faced lies about how EU law is made. 



And for there on it goes on to make arguments that the EU is undemocratic , which I could take and make the very same arguments about our own UK democracy.  These are lies.


And fuck me, they can get their hair cut or their nails done.  That’s it.  I’m outraged!  I want out, I want out now!


Sorry but I hit the x button after that.


This is pure anti-EU propaganda.


I guess this is the issue of our age.
The truth is fake news, and the lies are now the truth.
Perhaps millions of people are now prepared to wreck out country because they are being taken in by the extreme right wing politicians and  media moguls, who now having lost the power of the press are perusing their anti-working class, anti-union agendas through the murky world of facebook, twitter and Instagram. 
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 January 2019, 07:41:23 pm
 Facebook.  Hmmm
FightforBrexit page. I don’t use facebook, and maybe that’s why I’m struggling to find out anything about this page.  Who runs it for example?
But it does have the racist and right wing extremist, former reality TV star Katie Hopkins telling us how great it is to be an asylum seeker.  Not quite sure what that’s gotta do with BREXIT.
 
Then we have an announcement from Fight4Brexit.
Quote
“Warship HMS Mersey has been deployed to intercept migrant boats in the Channel this morning. They stop being Asylum Seekers when they pass through multiple Safe countries to get here which makes them Economic migrants! So Sink Their Boats and Send Them Back To France!”
Lovely, lets murder all the asylum seekers.
So I am afraid Dazza, I really don’t want to click on links that take me to racist, fascist web pages that incite hatred and murder.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 04 January 2019, 07:47:12 pm
 :rollin :rollin :rollin Who rattled your cage ?.......Oh, hang on a minute, was it me ? :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 January 2019, 07:57:51 pm
It's OK Dazza, we're here to help  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 04 January 2019, 08:21:35 pm
Asylum seekers you say, murder them ?....hmmm,bit extreme,  interesting rhetoric  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 January 2019, 08:22:19 pm
Dazza, this is a thread about BREXIT.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 04 January 2019, 08:28:24 pm

 

Quote
“Warship HMS Mersey has been deployed to intercept migrant boats in the Channel this morning. They stop being Asylum Seekers when they pass through multiple Safe countries to get here which makes them Economic migrants! So Sink Their Boats and Send Them Back To France!”

Lovely, lets murder all the asylum seekers.
Oh.........Well have you had a word with yourself then about what you can and can't talk about ? :lol


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 04 January 2019, 08:33:17 pm
It's OK Dazza, we're here to help  :lol
It's o.k.Mtread, I've already got the bad stuff out of my body. :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 January 2019, 08:50:40 pm
Quote
Oh.........Well have you had a word with yourself then about what you can and can't talk about ? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

 Dammed if I do, dammed if I don’t.  Can’t win with you Dazza :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 04 January 2019, 09:14:01 pm
Quote
Oh.........Well have you had a word with yourself then about what you can and can't talk about ? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

 Dammed if I do, dammed if I don’t.  Can’t win with you Dazza :lol
 

 
I'll leave you with this one seeing as you mentioned both subjects....Enjoy, I know you're a massive fan.  :b




https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2225079631083183&id=216482192461788



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 04 January 2019, 09:45:01 pm

And of course not one anti-eu foccer here can name one piece of EU legislation (that legislation that, so we are told, impacts on every aspect of our life!) that has a negative impact on them – oh sorry other than one foccer doesnae like daylight running lamps, and um, well foc me I can’t remember the other. 

You asked for one EU legislation and I gave you one. I chose that one because this is a biking forum and its one that particularly impacts on bikers in a negative way.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 January 2019, 10:25:30 pm
 
Quote
Quote from: VNA on Today at 07:23:09 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg289972.html#msg289972[/url])<blockquote>
And of course not one anti-eu foccer here can name one piece of EU legislation (that legislation that, so we are told, impacts on every aspect of our life!) that has a negative impact on them – oh sorry other than one foccer doesnae like daylight running lamps, and um, well foc me I can’t remember the other. 

</blockquote>You asked for one EU legislation and I gave you one. I chose that one because this is a biking forum and its one that particularly impacts on bikers in a negative way.

Ah I remember now;
Foc-u BREXITEER reasons for leaving the EU so far.
1.       Daylight running lamps
2.       Graded Bananas
3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather
4.       Cheap and nasty food and drink imports

 :eek

   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 January 2019, 11:00:52 pm

A couple of additions to that list...


The end of new 2-stroke motorcycles and the banning of certain types of domestic light bulbs that result in people having to shell out for the extra expense of new fittings/lamps.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 04 January 2019, 11:04:55 pm
Lower wattage vacuum cleaners-already done and next on the hit list is hand held tools power and loads more normal household appliances like kettles, toasters, hairdryers lawnmowers under the EU's ecodesign directive outlawing high-wattage devices.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 January 2019, 11:14:23 pm

...almost forgot the soon to be introduced E10 fuel. There's another one ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 04 January 2019, 11:36:51 pm
Anyway I don't care if its 1 or 1,000 the point is that it has been imposed by a 3rd party.
Quote
Yet surely 50 pages in we all know that the EU does not impose laws on any countries.
And using semantics to differentiate between a law and a legislation that you have to abide by is just childish and sounds like desperation.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 04 January 2019, 11:46:10 pm
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/46960635_3520785361271731_3343978888609923072_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=ca8a97c594e88d7acb506db22c70e80e&oe=5CC40A6F) :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 04 January 2019, 11:49:44 pm
(https://scontent-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/46960635_3520785361271731_3343978888609923072_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-dub4-1.xx&oh=ca8a97c594e88d7acb506db22c70e80e&oe=5CC40A6F) :eek
Fine- we will get wet and cold but we can swim and we will dry off, or at lease we can until the EU ban hair dryers
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 January 2019, 11:49:50 pm
OK, so that's adding:
5. We want more air pollution
6. We want to waste more energy
7. We want to use more fossil fuels instead of sustainable bio fuel
Does that sum it up? And are you suggesting for a moment that the UK wouldn't have legislated anyway?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 04 January 2019, 11:55:46 pm
OK, so that's adding:

6. We want to waste more energy BY having to use the product for twice as long as before

Does that sum it up? And are you suggesting for a moment that the UK wouldn't have legislated anyway? That's the point we don't want the legislation to come from the EU. Just like VNA does not want to be ruled by Westminster. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 January 2019, 12:07:26 am
Lovely, lets murder all the asylum seekers.
That's a silly idea, we could just bulldoze and concrete over 1,000s of hectares of scotish mountains and build houses there because there is loads of wasted space that is just hired out at the moment for rich Americans to shoot sheep.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 05 January 2019, 12:14:40 am
Noisy lawn mowers
Efficient home energy consumption assessment
Desk top lamp design
And a shit load of other bollocks


https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/438402/EU-laws-that-cost-the-UK-a-fortune-and-achieve-nothing (https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/438402/EU-laws-that-cost-the-UK-a-fortune-and-achieve-nothing)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 12:22:03 am
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 12:23:49 am
 Yeah!  So we got some new reasons fae the BREXITEER foccers. 
So
5.  Didn’t know anybody still made 2 strokes.  They’ve been obsolete for 20 years.  Nobody is interested in manufacturing them or buying them.
6.  I am lost.  No idea what you are on about. 
7.  You want the right to poor quality inefficient goods. 
8.  There are rumours that the UK, yes UK government may introduce E10 fuel to the UK.  Consultation continues.  But this has nothing to do with the EU.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 January 2019, 12:25:16 am

OK, so that's adding:
5. We want more air pollution
6. We want to waste more energy
7. We want to use more fossil fuels instead of sustainable bio fuel
Does that sum it up? And are you suggesting for a moment that the UK wouldn't have legislated anyway?


Are the rest of the world outside of the EU complying to this legislation?.


I think it requires a global effort if we're going to make a global difference.


I've seen the statistics for EU plastic waste for example and it's miniscule compared with the rest of the world.


You get the feeling that we in the EU are making a vain attempt to right all the environmental wrongs on our own :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 12:29:08 am
 1.       Daylight running lamps
2.       Graded Bananas
3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather
4.       Cheap and nasty food and drink imports
5.       A ban on new 2 stroke motorcycles
6.       banning of certain types of domestic light bulbs that result in people having to shell out for the extra expense of new fittings/lamps.
7.      Lower wattage vacuum cleaners
8.      E10 fuel
 
 
So 5 is, err umm, well nobody wants to manufacture 2 strokes.  I’m taking that off yer list.
6. needs further explanation.  I’ll stick it on, if you can kinda explain, well what the fuck you are on about.
7.  Ok you want crap goods, kinda goes with 4 – wanting crap food. 
8.  Is off the list.  Nothing to do with the EU.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 12:31:02 am
 So the new foc-u BREXITEER list is;


1.       Daylight running lamps
2.       Graded Bananas
3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather
4.       Cheap and nasty food and drink imports
5.       Crap inefficient electrical goods.


 
So is that it?
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 12:36:45 am
 
Quote
That's the point we don't want the legislation to come from the EU. Just like VNA does not want to be ruled by Westminster. 


 
VNA does not want to be ruled by Tories.  Which also means I don’t want to be ruled by idiots who wish to trash their economy in the name of some sort of hysterical imperialistic nationalism.  My desire for Scottish Independence is purely political. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 12:41:44 am
Ah, this kinda sums it up fae me;
(https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/2821c1a/2147483647/resize/1200x%3E/quality/85/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.beam.usnews.com%2Ff3%2Fd3%2F41dc12f14a9091d3640a61cebb07%2Fthumb-3.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 05 January 2019, 12:50:27 am
quote author=VNA link=topic=24678.msg290002#msg290002 date=1546647829] Yeah!  So we got some new reasons fae the BREXITEER foccers.  So 5.  Didn’t know anybody still made 2 strokes.  They’ve been obsolete for 20 years.  Nobody is interested in manufacturing them or buying them.

Call yourself a biker
:rolleyes
Oh, it must be brilliant being so blind....Ignorance is bliss.
This is why you have zero credibility. :D

Have you not heard of the KTM300EXC 2stroke......probably the best current off-road bike on the market and possibly my next road legal greenlaner

https://youtu.be/vGo0ZXa2bI4 (https://youtu.be/vGo0ZXa2bI4)


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: robbo on 05 January 2019, 09:51:51 am
KTM300EXC...Great choice Dazza, fuel injected,water cooled and with kick and electric start, and more torque than the 250. :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 January 2019, 09:54:53 am

OK, so that's adding:
5. We want more air pollution
6. We want to waste more energy
7. We want to use more fossil fuels instead of sustainable bio fuel
Does that sum it up? And are you suggesting for a moment that the UK wouldn't have legislated anyway?


Regarding ethanol in petrol, E10 fuel is less energy efficient. You'll be filling up more often.


Also not all vehicles are compatible with it. It can have a detrimental effect on the fuel system of older cars and bikes. We aren't talking all that 'old' either. I think every car manufactured since 2011 has to be capable of using it without issues.


The vintage motorcycle scene have already reported numerous problems with E5.


Be careful what you wish for!.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: robbo on 05 January 2019, 10:13:34 am
I noticed last year in France the only choice in some filling stations was the E shit petrol or super, which is far more expensive. Not a problem for me as I only run my Fazer on super. But people could be forced, financially, to buy cheaper E based petrol  only to be faced with more expense with a repair bill, or forced off the road as they can't afford a later vehicle that can run on this fuel.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 January 2019, 10:26:38 am
8.      E10 fuel
 
 

8.  Is off the list.  Nothing to do with the EU.

So the proposed introduction of E10, and the current E5, has got nothing to do with the UK attempting to meet its obligations under The EU Renewable Energy Directive?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 January 2019, 10:34:49 am
I noticed last year in France the only choice in some filling stations was the E shit petrol or super, which is far more expensive. Not a problem for me as I only run my Fazer on super. But people could be forced, financially, to buy cheaper E based petrol  only to be faced with more expense with a repair bill, or forced off the road as they can't afford a later vehicle that can run on this fuel.
Good point. With fuel prices already sky-high most people are just going to fill up with whatever's cheapest.
 I only put Super in my 600 now rather than take a chance. The cars are much more modern so should be OK on standard unleaded. There's quite a cost difference when it comes to filling a car tank up.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 January 2019, 10:39:19 am
5.  Didn’t know anybody still made 2 strokes.  They’ve been obsolete for 20 years.  Nobody is interested in manufacturing them or buying them.
Speak for yourself. I'd happily have another one. They were fantastic fun back in the day :woot
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 11:39:51 am
 You know, the truth is youse voted LEAVE, without really knowing why you were voting LEAVE.  Or perhaps you were genuinely taken in by the 350 million a week for the NHS, and shocked that EU officials can get a hair cut in the EU parliament.  It's being against something wthout being for anything. 

Maybe it is just good old English imperialism and fear of Johnny Foreigner.  What is wrong with the English?
 
Quote
Are the rest of the world outside of the EU complying to this legislation?.
 
 
 I think it requires a global effort if we're going to make a global difference.

Yes there is much more to be done.  But the EU has indeed often lead the way, lead the world in terms of environmental standards.  And it does so because it brings nations together, agrees legislation by consensus and creates a level playing field that allows unrestricted free trade for members. 
 
The way forward to global standards, is not leaving the EU where we will have no say in new EU standards, new standards that more than likely we will have to comply with, but increasingly EU standards are being adopted by other countries around the globe as off the shelf solutions, that also help align themselves economically with the EU in order to gain free trade access to the EU.
 
BEXIT at the end of the day is a project in self harm.  Whatever route we take, we will lose sovereignty, our standing will be reduced globally, and our economy will be negatively impacted. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 05 January 2019, 11:52:28 am
Don't drop in this thread very often even though started it as a p*ss take of 2 certain members. We are now 52 pages in and for the last 30 or so pages they have not said any thing new or sensible. Will drop in again after another 10/20 pages see if they have found something more sensible to say or some cartoons that are remotely amusing. All the best for the new year as a free independent nation. again.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 11:55:37 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwF2SSEXQAYGchn.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 January 2019, 12:16:14 pm
 The days before DRL we bikers could ride with our lights on and we were very visible because of them and we stood out against the traffic because the only vehicles with lights would be volvos and bikers . But now almost every car has them AND not just a small plain light, they are getting brighter and bigger and ever more abstract shapes so our lights are lost amongst the Christmas tree that the road has become making biking more dangerous. And I think that the brightness is set to be seen in Spain at mid day, just perfect for the UK at 3.30 pm  :rolleyes .         

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 05 January 2019, 12:23:42 pm

 BEXIT at the end of the day is a project in self harm.  Whatever route we take, we will lose sovereignty, our standing will be reduced globally, and our economy will be negatively impacted. 
 


None of this makes sense fella? Help me out here- none of the above statement makes any sense!?!


Brexit was a referendum not a self harm project. It polarised the electorate and created division, that's all.
Leaving the EU will actually increase our sovereignty. Sovereignty is the power of the state to do everything to govern itself- collecting taxes, making laws, forming treaties etc.
We haven't had any standing globally since the 1st world war when the USA overtook us economically and as a global superpower. However, the UK is still a member of the G8- this won't change after brexit.
So far the economy is holding up well, unlike most of the EU member states. Economists are divided, no one has a crystal ball.


Your faith in the EU is commendable, unfortunately the majority don't share your belief in this dysfunctional bureaucracy, it's a sinking ship and has had it's day.


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 12:31:09 pm
Quote
Don't drop in this thread very often even though started it as a p*ss take of 2 certain members. We are now 52 pages in and for the last 30 or so pages they have not said any thing new or sensible. Will drop in again after another 10/20 pages see if they have found something more sensible to say or some cartoons that are remotely amusing. All the best for the new year as a free independent nation. again.
So it's all your fault then  :)
Here's some more remotely amusing pictures.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 January 2019, 12:36:22 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwF2SSEXQAYGchn.jpg)
So exactly what euro millions are we giving away.
Would that be the millions that we have paid TO the EU and then THEY decide where is is to go back into the UK after taking out their subs to run the whole corrupt system and to pay their
45, 000 + civil servants on salaries far above those that they would receive in their home countries in public service.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 05 January 2019, 01:02:30 pm
Mtread, if you're digging out the ladybird books, don't forget this one for VNA. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 05 January 2019, 01:30:17 pm
Brilliant, no posting, no dissent. So on this thread we can all agree that Brexit is a disaster, we need another referendum to overturn it, and if not Scotland can go independent :D


Careful now.......


Scotland - you mean that bit at the top where they get a Commons seat because the SNP win a constituency of 10 votes  :wall




I have just been reading through the whole post again, as I feel that it is good to have a completely unbiased and independent view of the situation as we are departing from Europe.
I now feel fully informed and equipped to move forward with a glad heart knowing that it is all working out fine.

'that bit at the top' now that is no way to talk of our brothers and sisters in the North of the United Kingdom (Someone remind me again what 'United' means)


Now just to add some fuel to the dying embers:


I personally think that Mrs May is doing a great job with the whole crock of shit that she inherited, she herself was not a leaver but has had to accept what the general idiots populace of this country asked for (I say asked for, and not what they likely wanted) Mrs May is between the proverbial 'Rock and a Hard place' as I feel she is doing her very, very best with a bunch of fucking wankers in both parties trying their very best to scupper the process and also assassinate her in the process.


I was a remainer and still am, but I have to accept what is metered out to me, just like Mrs May has.


 :woot :woot :woot Mrs May I salute you.

All you leavers can go fuck yourselves! Or of course you can leave, that is another option. I hear there is a lot of room for settlers in Syria just now. Lots of properties going cheap that need renovating.

I have an inflatable if you would like to purchase it. 

Happy New Year XXX

 :eek :pokefun      
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 January 2019, 01:33:47 pm
The way forward to global standards, is not leaving the EU where we will have no say in new EU standards, new standards that more than likely we will have to comply with, but increasingly EU standards are being adopted by other countries around the globe as off the shelf solutions, that also help align themselves economically with the EU in order to gain free trade access to the EU.
 
Its a big red herring to keep repeating the mantra that whilst out we will loose our "say" in the EU. How much of a "say" does the UK actually have in anything EU related anyway.And the point of being out is that just like the rest of the world WE will be able to decide on our own standards that are fit for our own purpose and if an EU one is fit for our purpose then we will use that. Why is that so bad.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 January 2019, 01:40:48 pm
I was a remainer and still am,
All you leavers can go fuck yourselves!
 
A very helpful and thought provoking enlightened intelligent post. Thank you. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 05 January 2019, 01:40:59 pm
Mtread, if you're digging out the ladybird books, don't forget this one for VNA. :lol


Now Dazzer,
I for a fact know that you have doctored the cover of that Lady Bird book, because, I saw a copy of it in a charity shop just before Christmas and the original cover had a Highland Cow on the front. well the Welsh get enough stick, and quite rightly so.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 05 January 2019, 01:44:26 pm
I was a remainer and still am,
All you leavers can go fuck yourselves!
 
A very helpful and thought provoking enlightened intelligent post. Thank you.


My pleasure, I am glad it was helpful.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 01:56:55 pm
Quote
How much of a "say" does the UK actually have in anything EU related anyway.
As has already been pointed out, our MEP's proportionally have as much say as any other EU state. You don't join a club and expect to write all the rules.
Quote
unfortunately the majority don't share your belief in this dysfunctional bureaucracy,

Well 37% of the electorate didn't 2 and a half years ago, after being lied to and subject to an illegal campaign.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 January 2019, 02:27:35 pm
Quote
How much of a "say" does the UK actually have in anything EU related anyway.
As has already been pointed out, our MEP's proportionally have as much say as any other EU state. You don't join a club and expect to write all the rules.
So our sphere of influence and the famous "say" in the EU is 1/28th.
Cam-moron showed us just how much influence the UK has when he went with a begging bowl asking for some scraps to give to the British public to try and prevent a referendum when even armed with the threat of a referendum they told him to "Va te faire foutre".
 And VNA - no need to reply with the usual boring mantra that it was all about the Tories.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 January 2019, 02:33:02 pm

I was a remainer and still am,
All you leavers can go fuck yourselves!
 
A very helpful and thought provoking enlightened intelligent post. Thank you.


If most of the previous ones are anything to go by, what did you expect? :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 02:36:21 pm
Quote
So our sphere of influence and the famous "say" in the EU is 1/28th.
Nope, much better than that
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 02:39:09 pm
Actually I'll correct that. We've only had 72. Farage could hardly be bothered to turn up, despite being paid.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 January 2019, 03:25:38 pm
Quote
So our sphere of influence and the famous "say" in the EU is 1/28th.
Nope, much better than that
So how does that fit with your statement
Quote
our MEP's proportionally have as much say as any other EU state.
So now you are trying to say we get more of a say. You really are confused. And if we do have so much of a say -as you say we have then how did that help cam-moron and just look how well May is getting on, they just spit at her and call her "nebulas" .The "we have a say" is vastly overestimated and always gets rolled out as a reason to stay. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 03:51:36 pm
Quote
So how does that fit with your statement [/size]

Quote
our MEP's proportionally have as much say as any other EU state.

So now you are trying to say we get more of a say. You really are confused.

Look it's quite simple. Let me do the arithmetic for you  :rolleyes
You said 'our' (by that I assume you mean the UK) say was 1/28th, which is about 3.5%.
I pointed out we have 73MEPs out of 751 in total, which is about 9.7%.
9.7 is more than 3.5.
But each individual UK MEP has as much say as any other MEP. Apart from Nigel of course.
QED  :)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 January 2019, 04:01:39 pm
So our much touted "say" in the EU that will be disastrous to loose if we leave amounts to 9.7%.  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 January 2019, 04:32:33 pm
Quote
unfortunately the majority don't share your belief in this dysfunctional bureaucracy,
Well 37% of the electorate didn't 2 and a half years ago, after being lied to and subject to an illegal campaign.

Which of course is to imply that this minority of the electorate have unfairly imposed their will over everyone else :rolleyes
If Remain had won by the same margin there wouldn't be any such griping you can bet your bottom dollar on that ;)
The turnout was 72.2%. That was huge. If 27.8% of those eligible to vote can't be bothered to walk down to their village hall and put a cross in a box that's their choice. They are clearly happy to let the rest of us to decide for them. Remainers often try to include those who didn't vote in their statistics in order to give them a false boost.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 05:23:17 pm
 
Quote
Its a big red herring to keep repeating the mantra that whilst out we will loose our "say" in the EU. How much of a "say" does the UK actually have in anything EU related anyway.And the point of being out is that just like the rest of the world WE will be able to decide on our own standards that are fit for our own purpose and if an EU one is fit for our purpose then we will use that. Why is that so bad.
I think maybe this comes back to the English imperialistic thinking.  Where everything is seen as a potential battle, an all or nothing mentality – we rule(d) the world – victory at all costs - what? what?
Whereas the reality is the EU is economic union in which all have a say and agreement is reached by consensus.  (one wonders if consensus really is in the English dictionary).
I don’t think we will ever get through to you fazersharp the near miracle of 28 sovereign states trading as one.  The phenomenal savings that result in this creation.  Not to mention the idea of the UK setting it’s own standards, well in today’s modern world that generally is just is not going  happen.
The EU accounts for 25% of global GDP.  And of course we get a further 50 free trade agreements via the EU.  You quite literally have to almost be completely and utterly mad to walk away from that.  Or at least very rich.  Sadly I'm not rich - are you?

 
Quote
So our much touted "say" in the EU that will be disastrous to loose if we leave amounts to 9.7%.  :rolleyes

Aside from that is not how the EU operates, if you wish to view it as crudely as that, it goes from 100% :eek to 0% :eek because we have a veto. :eek
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 05:27:04 pm
Quote
Don't drop in this thread very often even though started it as a p*ss take of 2 certain members. We are now 52 pages in and for the last 30 or so pages they have not said any thing new or sensible. Will drop in again after another 10/20 pages see if they have found something more sensible to say or some cartoons that are remotely amusing. All the best for the new year as a free independent nation. again.
It's your thread Steve.
Not only that it might just turn out to be the most popular thread of 2019 on foc-u.
So yeah - foc-u mate :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 05:42:27 pm
 
Quote
I have just been reading through the whole post again,

Confirmation, if any was ever needed, that yardin is indeed 100% insane. :lol
 
Quote
I personally think that Mrs May is doing a great job with the whole crock of shit that she inherited, she herself was not a leaver but has had to accept what the general idiots populace of this country asked for
I tend to agree with you – to some extent – the country ask the government to do something very stupid – and May is indeed acting accordingly.   As Mr Corbyn said - stupid woman :eek   



Quote
very best with a bunch of fucking wankers in both parties trying their very best to scupper the process and also assassinate her in the process.
But I’ll disagree with that bit.  I mean really :rolleyes   It’s the not the job of opposing parties to do the work of the government.  This should have potentially been nipped in the bud almost two years ago.  Labour should have stood it’s ground and moved to vote down article 50. 

We could potentially have avoided this whole mess.
Quote
All you leavers can go fuck yourselves!
I have been trying to get them to see sense.  Get them back on board.  But yeah OK.


My country voted decisively to REMAIN.  I expect The Scottish Parliament and our Scottish MPs at Westminster to do everything within their power to stop this BREXIT madness.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 07:49:28 pm
Quote
So our much touted "say" in the EU that will be disastrous to loose if we leave amounts to 9.7%.
Well you suggested it was only 3.5%. As said, the idea of a 'Union' is that no one member gets to decide all the rules.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 07:54:29 pm
Quote
Which of course is to imply that this minority of the electorate have unfairly imposed their will over everyone else If Remain had won by the same margin there wouldn't be any such griping you can bet your bottom dollar on that  The turnout was 72.2%. That was huge. If 27.8% of those eligible to vote can't be bothered to walk down to their village hall and put a cross in a box that's their choice. They are clearly happy to let the rest of us to decide for them. Remainers often try to include those who didn't vote in their statistics in order to give them a false boost.

Just pointing out that the majority of the electorate didn't vote 'not to share our belief in this dysfunctional bureaucracy'
Anyway, notice you haven't challenged the bit about lies and illegality. They may well have affected the result.
Therefore, time to vote again  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 05 January 2019, 08:07:57 pm
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 January 2019, 08:18:36 pm
Quote
Which of course is to imply that this minority of the electorate have unfairly imposed their will over everyone else If Remain had won by the same margin there wouldn't be any such griping you can bet your bottom dollar on that  The turnout was 72.2%. That was huge. If 27.8% of those eligible to vote can't be bothered to walk down to their village hall and put a cross in a box that's their choice. They are clearly happy to let the rest of us to decide for them. Remainers often try to include those who didn't vote in their statistics in order to give them a false boost.

Just pointing out that the majority of the electorate didn't vote 'not to share our belief in this dysfunctional bureaucracy'
Anyway, notice you haven't challenged the bit about lies and illegality. They may well have affected the result.
Therefore, time to vote again  :)

In how many refrendums/elections do the victors receive the votes of over 50% of those eligible to vote?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 January 2019, 08:38:06 pm
Using the EU referendum as an exemplar there's 3 ways of looking at the result. The first one is the only accurate, representative figure. Remain like to use either 2) or 3) in order to misrepresent the truth and 'bolster' their case.

1) The Remain/Leave vote share based on those who actually took part in the vote (the commonly quoted 52%/48%).
2) The Leave vote share based on those who were eligible to vote.
3) The Leave vote share based on the population as a whole.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 09:17:03 pm
Northern Ireland Voted to REMAIN
    Leave  44.2%   349,442 VOTES     Remain 55.8%   440,707 VOTES

Scotland Voted to REMAIN
    Leave  38.0%   1,018,322 VOTES     Remain 62.0%   1,661,191 VOTES

Two out of the four countried in this union clearly voted to REMAIN.    What about their voice in this union.
     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 09:27:40 pm
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/4d50035611061b4051b46a849050a98fb0fd1f7a/0_0_940_332/master/940.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=4468ac536bb63f0ae97c490cbea92b91)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 05 January 2019, 09:39:37 pm
Quote
I have just been reading through the whole post again,

Confirmation, if any was ever needed, that yardin is indeed 100% insane. :lol
 
Quote
I personally think that Mrs May is doing a great job with the whole crock of shit that she inherited, she herself was not a leaver but has had to accept what the general idiots populace of this country asked for
I tend to agree with you – to some extent – the country ask the government to do something very stupid – and May is indeed acting accordingly.   As Mr Corbyn said - stupid woman :eek   



Quote
very best with a bunch of fucking wankers in both parties trying their very best to scupper the process and also assassinate her in the process.
But I’ll disagree with that bit.  I mean really :rolleyes   It’s the not the job of opposing parties to do the work of the government.  This should have potentially been nipped in the bud almost two years ago.  Labour should have stood it’s ground and moved to vote down article 50. 

We could potentially have avoided this whole mess.
Quote
All you leavers can go fuck yourselves!
I have been trying to get them to see sense.  Get them back on board.  But yeah OK.


My country voted decisively to REMAIN.  I expect The Scottish Parliament and our Scottish MPs at Westminster to do everything within their power to stop this BREXIT madness.




Well it's good to know that there is a smidgen of consensus between us, but I am not going to dwell on it.


I should have edited my post as there was something that I think (On reflection) was not thoroughly thought out, and therefore was erroneous, that was the bit about the leavers fucking themselves, in fact I think they might have fucked us all.


I would urge some of the readers and posters not to take this banter to seriously, because that is what a lot of it is banter as i am always looking for a response, and my goodness the baited hook certainly gets some bites, you see the float bobbing and disappearing all the time.  :pokefun
I honestly think that a few in here would not last 5 minutes working with a gang of brickies or ground workers, no sense of humour and take themselves all to seriously.


Especially ole Coco the Clown, I think you know who you are   :pokefun chill a bit FFS. The forum is meant to be fun and a crack. There are a lot of good and helpful posts that informative, I have been helped on a number of occasions with advice about suspension and speed sensors and the front sprocket and upgrade nut and the like, also, biker clothing and skid lids, but I am not expecting the hairy arsed bikers in here to sort out the detail of Brexit FFS, we cant even agree on what the best tyre is or who manufactures the best braided brake lines. :finger
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 05 January 2019, 09:49:42 pm
Everyone know the answers to those questions, Bridgestone, Hell, and Remain.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 January 2019, 10:05:47 pm
Quote
I have been helped on a number of occasions with advice about suspension and speed sensors and the front sprocket and upgrade nut and the like, also, biker clothing and skid lids,
All CE marked I hope.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 January 2019, 10:40:17 pm

Quote
I have just been reading through the whole post again,

Confirmation, if any was ever needed, that yardin is indeed 100% insane. :lol
 
Quote
I personally think that Mrs May is doing a great job with the whole crock of shit that she inherited, she herself was not a leaver but has had to accept what the general idiots populace of this country asked for
I tend to agree with you – to some extent – the country ask the government to do something very stupid – and May is indeed acting accordingly.   As Mr Corbyn said - stupid woman :eek   



Quote
very best with a bunch of fucking wankers in both parties trying their very best to scupper the process and also assassinate her in the process.
But I’ll disagree with that bit.  I mean really :rolleyes   It’s the not the job of opposing parties to do the work of the government.  This should have potentially been nipped in the bud almost two years ago.  Labour should have stood it’s ground and moved to vote down article 50. 

We could potentially have avoided this whole mess.
Quote
All you leavers can go fuck yourselves!
I have been trying to get them to see sense.  Get them back on board.  But yeah OK.


My country voted decisively to REMAIN.  I expect The Scottish Parliament and our Scottish MPs at Westminster to do everything within their power to stop this BREXIT madness.




Well it's good to know that there is a smidgen of consensus between us, but I am not going to dwell on it.


I should have edited my post as there was something that I think (On reflection) was not thoroughly thought out, and therefore was erroneous, that was the bit about the leavers fucking themselves, in fact I think they might have fucked us all.


I would urge some of the readers and posters not to take this banter to seriously, because that is what a lot of it is banter as i am always looking for a response, and my goodness the baited hook certainly gets some bites, you see the float bobbing and disappearing all the time.  :pokefun
I honestly think that a few in here would not last 5 minutes working with a gang of brickies or ground workers, no sense of humour and take themselves all to seriously.


Especially ole Coco the Clown, I think you know who you are   :pokefun chill a bit FFS. The forum is meant to be fun and a crack. There are a lot of good and helpful posts that informative, I have been helped on a number of occasions with advice about suspension and speed sensors and the front sprocket and upgrade nut and the like, also, biker clothing and skid lids, but I am not expecting the hairy arsed bikers in here to sort out the detail of Brexit FFS, we cant even agree on what the best tyre is or who manufactures the best braided brake lines. :finger


You don't by any chance wear comedy socks and ties do you tommyardin?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 11:03:47 pm
Dazza, no it's not Merkel who is with Hitler, it's your mate Steven Yaxley Lennon. Much more in common  :pokefun
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 11:08:45 pm
Quote
I personally think that Mrs May is doing a great job with the whole crock of shit that she inherited, she herself was not a leaver but has had to accept what the general idiots populace of this country asked for
Trouble is, May called a general election when she didn't need to, lost her majority, then had to buddy up to the DUP who are holding her to ransom over her deal. So some of her problems are of her own making.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 January 2019, 11:19:17 pm

Quote from: tommyardin
Quote
the bit about the leavers fucking themselves, in fact I think they might have fucked us all.
And then there were 3. I'm just waiting for Yul Brynner and the others to turn up. Then we might have a magnificent seven  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 05 January 2019, 11:46:14 pm
Quote
I have been helped on a number of occasions with advice about suspension and speed sensors and the front sprocket and upgrade nut and the like, also, biker clothing and skid lids,
All CE marked I hope.



Whats the Church of England got to do with it  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 05 January 2019, 11:49:01 pm

Quote
I have just been reading through the whole post again,

Confirmation, if any was ever needed, that yardin is indeed 100% insane. :lol
 
Quote
I personally think that Mrs May is doing a great job with the whole crock of shit that she inherited, she herself was not a leaver but has had to accept what the general idiots populace of this country asked for
I tend to agree with you – to some extent – the country ask the government to do something very stupid – and May is indeed acting accordingly.   As Mr Corbyn said - stupid woman :eek   



Quote
very best with a bunch of fucking wankers in both parties trying their very best to scupper the process and also assassinate her in the process.
But I’ll disagree with that bit.  I mean really :rolleyes   It’s the not the job of opposing parties to do the work of the government.  This should have potentially been nipped in the bud almost two years ago.  Labour should have stood it’s ground and moved to vote down article 50. 

We could potentially have avoided this whole mess.
Quote
All you leavers can go fuck yourselves!
I have been trying to get them to see sense.  Get them back on board.  But yeah OK.


My country voted decisively to REMAIN.  I expect The Scottish Parliament and our Scottish MPs at Westminster to do everything within their power to stop this BREXIT madness.




Well it's good to know that there is a smidgen of consensus between us, but I am not going to dwell on it.


I should have edited my post as there was something that I think (On reflection) was not thoroughly thought out, and therefore was erroneous, that was the bit about the leavers fucking themselves, in fact I think they might have fucked us all.


I would urge some of the readers and posters not to take this banter to seriously, because that is what a lot of it is banter as i am always looking for a response, and my goodness the baited hook certainly gets some bites, you see the float bobbing and disappearing all the time.  :pokefun
I honestly think that a few in here would not last 5 minutes working with a gang of brickies or ground workers, no sense of humour and take themselves all to seriously.


Especially ole Coco the Clown, I think you know who you are   :pokefun chill a bit FFS. The forum is meant to be fun and a crack. There are a lot of good and helpful posts that informative, I have been helped on a number of occasions with advice about suspension and speed sensors and the front sprocket and upgrade nut and the like, also, biker clothing and skid lids, but I am not expecting the hairy arsed bikers in here to sort out the detail of Brexit FFS, we cant even agree on what the best tyre is or who manufactures the best braided brake lines. :finger


You don't by any chance wear comedy socks and ties do you tommyardin?
Only when your not wearing them and I can borrow yours.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 January 2019, 12:01:47 am
Just the job  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 06 January 2019, 12:21:44 am
I want a pair LOL!
Love em
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 January 2019, 10:49:28 am
I honestly think that a few in here would not last 5 minutes working with a gang of brickies or ground workers, no sense of humour and take themselves all to seriously.
Every time I go past a building site they're all stood in a row, hoods pulled down, chain smoking and staring silently and blankly into their smart phones.

Don't look much like a bundle of laughs to me :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 06 January 2019, 11:14:06 am

Quote from: tommyardin
Quote
the bit about the leavers fucking themselves, in fact I think they might have fucked us all.
And then there were 3. I'm just waiting for Yul Brynner and the others to turn up. Then we might have a magnificent seven  :D
And there we have it.... Proof that you have indeed got delusions of grandeur.
You really do believe that you are part of a fictitious band of fucking cowboys. :rollin :rollin   Fucking gold. :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 January 2019, 11:59:19 am
The EU's run by a band of cowboys :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 06 January 2019, 12:02:39 pm
Dazza, no it's not Merkel who is with Hitler, it's your mate Steven Yaxley Lennon. Much more in common  :pokefun
If you say so mate...Lets recap on 2018 and see how much of a Nazi he really is. :)


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1466885493447500&id=381971441938916 (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1466885493447500&id=381971441938916)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 January 2019, 01:16:19 pm
 
Quote
Quote from: mtread on 05 January 2019, 11:03:47 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg290092.html#msg290092[/url])<blockquote>Dazza, no it's not Merkel who is with Hitler, it's your mate Steven Yaxley Lennon. Much more in common  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/pokefun.gif[/url])
</blockquote>If you say so mate...Lets recap on 2018 and see how much of a Nazi he really is. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])


[url]https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1466885493447500&id=381971441938916[/url] ([url]https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1466885493447500&id=381971441938916[/url])

 Who the fuck wants to sit down and watch a PR video made for and about an extreme racist, fascist, Islamophobic thug, who even tried throw the Huddersfield grooming trials in order to get paedophiles off the hook, as it would rather suit his own sick twisted political ambition.


With a little luck he will be spending some significant time in jail during 2019 now his case has been referred to the Attorney General.


Of course, Steven Yaxley Lennon is a reasonably intelligent man, albeit a man with strong narcissistic and more worryingly psychopathic tendencies, he gets off on his own sense of self importance along with the chaos and anarchy he creates around him.   He has morphed from violent football hooligan to a fascist political hooligan, taking along with him a swathe of such hooligans and picking up many impressionable individuals, often of low intelligence, along the way.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 January 2019, 01:54:21 pm
Quote
And there we have it.... Proof that you have indeed got delusions of grandeur.You really do believe that you are part of a fictitious band of fucking cowboys.     Fucking gold. 

You still haven't quite worked out yet what is a joke and what isn't? :rolleyes
Despite the fact that you're the nasty Mexican (non - EU) bandit.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 January 2019, 01:57:26 pm
Quote
Of course, Steven Yaxley Lennon is a reasonably intelligent man, albeit a man with strong narcissistic and more worryingly psychopathic tendencies, he gets off on his own sense of self importance along with the chaos and anarchy he creates around him. 
Who? Hitler?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 06 January 2019, 03:02:45 pm
I honestly think that a few in here would not last 5 minutes working with a gang of brickies or ground workers, no sense of humour and take themselves all to seriously.
Every time I go past a building site they're all stood in a row, hoods pulled down, chain smoking and staring silently and blankly into their smart phones.

Don't look much like a bundle of laughs to me :lol


Yeah but that's from round where you live, everyone is like that around there.


Where I live, and, where I worked brickies are paid for what they do, its the nature of self employment and price work, if you don't do the biz there is no dosh at the end of the week, we are not all safe workers that get paid even if we hang about all day with our finger up our nose.
Of course I am not insinuating that you do, but is that boggy on the tip of your finger?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 January 2019, 03:10:32 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwN29YqWkAAuoXy.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 January 2019, 04:15:57 pm
I honestly think that a few in here would not last 5 minutes working with a gang of brickies or ground workers, no sense of humour and take themselves all to seriously.
Every time I go past a building site they're all stood in a row, hoods pulled down, chain smoking and staring silently and blankly into their smart phones.

Don't look much like a bundle of laughs to me :lol


Yeah but that's from round where you live, everyone is like that around there.


Where I live, and, where I worked brickies are paid for what they do, its the nature of self employment and price work, if you don't do the biz there is no dosh at the end of the week, we are not all safe workers that get paid even if we hang about all day with our finger up our nose.
Of course I am not insinuating that you do, but is that boggy on the tip of your finger?  :lol
It's because everyone who smokes has to leave the site in order to do so. Usually by just a couple of feet or so. It's pretty much the rule wherever you work now in all industries.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 06 January 2019, 05:31:22 pm
Quote
And there we have it.... Proof that you have indeed got delusions of grandeur.You really do believe that you are part of a fictitious band of fucking cowboys.     Fucking gold. 

You still haven't quite worked out yet what is a joke and what isn't? :rolleyes
Despite the fact that you're the nasty Mexican (non - EU) bandit.  :lol

Now that's just taking it too far.....If I have to accompany you in your deluded little fantasy world...... I want to be Clint Eastwood. :lol


There's only one way to settle this....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umCzniykFsI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umCzniykFsI)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 January 2019, 07:00:47 pm
Gotta say I really do think we are fucked one way or another.
https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1081856121311293440
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 06 January 2019, 07:33:51 pm
Quote
Quote from: mtread on 05 January 2019, 11:03:47 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg290092.html#msg290092[/url])<blockquote>Dazza, no it's not Merkel who is with Hitler, it's your mate Steven Yaxley Lennon. Much more in common  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/pokefun.gif[/url])
</blockquote>If you say so mate...Lets recap on 2018 and see how much of a Nazi he really is. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])


[url]https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1466885493447500&id=381971441938916[/url] ([url]https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1466885493447500&id=381971441938916[/url])

 Who the fuck wants to sit down and watch a PR video made for and about an extreme racist, fascist, Islamophobic thug



Well, unfortunately for you. Once you make such a sweeping, slanderous statement on a public forum, it's only right and proper that the other side of the story has the chance of being heard so that normal, civilised people can listen and make their own minds up as to who they choose to believe.......You......A biker who didn't even know they still made 2strokes and who spits his venom at the very mention of his name (unless it's you that mentioned it) :rolleyes .[size=78%]...Or..... The man himself and information that is out there that hasn't come from an anti  source.[/size]
(I know it's all about the source with you isn't it)


So, just think of me as the referee....I'm here to make sure both sides of the story gets a fair hearing. :lol 


You hear that mtread ?  I'm the referee.....that means, I'm the good so I get to be Clint Eastwood.  :D












Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 January 2019, 07:53:43 pm
Quote
Well, unfortunately for you. Once you make such a sweeping, slanderous statement on a public forum,
Nothing I said was slanderous.  It is fact.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 January 2019, 08:26:55 pm
They can't sell road going two-strokes in the EU though due to Euro emissions laws can they. The KTM 300 wouldn't be subject to those controls as an off-road machine.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 January 2019, 08:53:52 pm
Quote
You hear that mtread ?  I'm the referee.....that means, I'm the good so I get to be Clint Eastwood. 

Dazza, you're no referee. You might be Clint Eastwood though, he's a friend of Trump.
BTW, are these the jackets you were on about? How many do you want?  :)





Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 06 January 2019, 09:11:25 pm
They can't sell road going two-strokes in the EU though due to Euro emissions laws can they. The KTM 300 wouldn't be subject to those controls as an off-road machine.
I'm pretty sure, with their new TPI technology 2 stroke engine they've achieved euro 4


Unfortunately, yes you've guessed it, euro 5 is taking effect in 2020 but KTM are definitely developing in view of this.
Good news is, the 2 Stoke isn't dead and here's hoping it makes its way back into some mainstream mental machines. :)


https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/motorcycles/a27046/ktm-two-stroke-transfer-port-injection-tpi/ (https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/motorcycles/a27046/ktm-two-stroke-transfer-port-injection-tpi/)


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 January 2019, 10:01:02 pm

Interesting link dazza. I wasn't aware that KTM were developing that technology.


We use Stihl equipment at work that you fill up with 2-stroke mix but apparently they have tiny little valves like a four-stroke. They sound like a hybrid of the 2. I'm guessing that's a similar thing.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 12:52:22 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwT0EaoWkAArvbW.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 January 2019, 01:02:07 pm
Apparently the vote is in 8 days time. If I was Mrs May I'd postpone it until March 28th ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 January 2019, 02:56:59 pm
No it's definitely definitely definitely definitely going ahead. She said so ....... oh hang on a minute  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 07 January 2019, 04:27:08 pm
Everyone know the answers to those questions, Bridgestone, Hell, and Remain.


You only got two out of three Tommy  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 January 2019, 04:38:53 pm
Agreed. Michelin are better than Bridgestones.  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 07 January 2019, 05:05:43 pm
Agreed. Michelin are better than Bridgestones.  ;)


Sorry, youve only one out of three.


Stay behind and write out 100 times "I must accept the will of the people"  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 January 2019, 05:16:53 pm
Mrs May just wasted £50,ooo trying to orchestrate a traffic jam to promote project fear and they drove 20 miles turned around and came back with no issues, no shots from the accommodating news helicopters no window interviews with irate car drivers nothing. Look out for the next fear farce stunt. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 January 2019, 05:49:59 pm
Well she's wasting £13.8 million on a ferry company with no ships to promote Project Fantasy  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 January 2019, 05:54:27 pm
Its a contract to provide and nothing has been handed over----- no providy - no money
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 January 2019, 06:05:44 pm
Quote
Stay behind and write out 100 times "I must accept the will of the people" 



OK
I must accept the will of the people in 2019 not 2016
I must accept the will of the people in 2019 not 2016
I must accept the will of the people in 2019 not 2016
I must accept the will of the people in 2019 not 2016
etc etc
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 06:11:27 pm
Quote
Mrs May just wasted £50,ooo trying to orchestrate a traffic jam to promote project fear and they drove 20 miles turned around and came back with no issues, no shots from the accommodating news helicopters no window interviews with irate car drivers nothing. Look out for the next fear farce. 
Not quite sure what they were trying to prove with that.
But it's nothing compared to wasting the UK economy on BREXIT.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 January 2019, 06:15:44 pm
Quote
Mrs May just wasted £50,ooo trying to orchestrate a traffic jam to promote project fear and they drove 20 miles turned around and came back with no issues, no shots from the accommodating news helicopters no window interviews with irate car drivers nothing. Look out for the next fear farce. 
Not quite sure what they were trying to prove with that.
But it's nothing compared to wasting the UK economy on BREXIT.

I told you what May was trying to do and it flopped, it did not deliver the chaos and news headlines it was supposed to. Anyway there was absolutely no need to practice because we have already got operation stack for when the French farmers or fishermen or onion sellers decide to blockade the ports.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 January 2019, 06:15:54 pm
Quote
Its a contract to provide and nothing has been handed over----- no providy - no mone
And nothing will be handed over. It's all a bluff because 'No Deal' just won't happen  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 January 2019, 06:24:27 pm
Well she's wasting £13.8 million on a ferry company 

Quote
Its a contract to provide and nothing has been handed over----- no providy - no mone
nothing will be handed over.
So I am really confused now - can you tell me which one its it - is she wasting £13.9m or not handing over £13.8m
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 06:31:48 pm
 You know I’m still absolutely dumbfounded by the whole thing. 



The Tories promised a referendum on EU membership in order to unite their party so they could win an election.


They win the election and uphold their manifesto promise to hold a referendum on EU membership.


2 out of the 4 countries in the union vote to Remain, but England and Wales vote to LEAVE.


The Prime Minister resigns.


The Tories decide BREXIT it is, even though haven’t yet figured out what that actually means – a red white and blue BREXIT is what we will get – so we are told.


The official opposition (or Muppets)  dutifully vote with the government to trigger article 50, even though there is no plan.


May realising she can’t get any sort of BREXIT through parliament, and sensing that Labour is weak with Jeremey Corbyn at the helm, launches a surprise general election with her ‘strong and stable’ soundbite.


A massive landslide victory will allow May to get the job done, as she pleases, and without opposition.



But what actually happens is May throws away her commons majority and sells out to the DUP to keep the Tory boat afloat. 



As a last desperate act to get the job done May decides she was actually elected President of UK and that parliament will have no say in BREXIT.  Naturally she falls flat on her face.


By the end of last year, she had her deal ready to present to parliament and a date for the vote was set.


Clearly not able to win the vote she pulls it.


The date has now been set for 15th January.  Defeat is almost certain. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 06:39:33 pm
 Also, what does all this actually boil down to at the end of the day.


 It’s a trade negotiation.



So what are trade negotiations?


They are negotiations that set common rules in order to smooth the flow of trade.  The intention is to increase trade to the benefit of both parties.



So what is different about BREXIT?


It’s probably the first trade negotiations in the history of modern economics were the goal at the end of the day is to make trade more difficult.  It’s moving from an unrestricted single market, to something not quite as good.  Inevitably there will be an impact on trade. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 January 2019, 06:46:53 pm
If the whole EU project was just about trade like how it all started out as then that would be just fine but its not is it.Perhaps the whole EU experiment / project needs to collapse and we start again with 10 or so countries as just a group of trading partners dump the EU parliment and leave it as that. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 January 2019, 06:51:41 pm
You know I’m still absolutely dumbfounded by the whole thing. 



The Tories promised a referendum on EU membership in order to unite their party so they could win an election.


They win the election and uphold their manifesto promise to hold a referendum on EU membership.


2 out of the 4 countries in the union vote to Remain, but England and Wales vote to LEAVE.


The Prime Minister resigns.


The Tories decide BREXIT it is, even though haven’t yet figured out what that actually means – a red white and blue BREXIT is what we will get – so we are told.


The official opposition (or Muppets)  dutifully vote with the government to trigger article 50, even though there is no plan.


May realising she can’t get any sort of BREXIT through parliament, and sensing that Labour is weak with Jeremey Corbyn at the helm, launches a surprise general election with her ‘strong and stable’ soundbite.


A massive landslide victory will allow May to get the job done, as she pleases, and without opposition.



But what actually happens is May throws away her commons majority and sells out to the DUP to keep the Tory boat afloat. 



As a last desperate act to get the job done May decides she was actually elected President of UK and that parliament will have no say in BREXIT.  Naturally she falls flat on her face.


By the end of last year, she had her deal ready to present to parliament and a date for the vote was set.


Clearly not able to win the vote she pulls it.


The date has now been set for 15th January.  Defeat is almost certain. 
 
You have actually summed it up very well - for once.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 06:54:41 pm
Quote
You have actually summed it up very well - for once.
Well yes, of course I have.  And what is it?  A complete waste of time.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 January 2019, 06:55:31 pm
Quote
I am really confused now - can you tell me which one its it - is she wasting £13.9m or not handing over £13.8m
No you're right.
She's already wasted £50k on a lorry stacking system that won't be used.
But she's saved £13.8 million on a contract for extra shipping, that won't be used.
Perhaps we could put it towards the NHS and write that on the side of a bus  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 06:58:31 pm
Quote
If the whole EU project was just about trade like how it all started out as then that would be just fine but its not is it.Perhaps the whole EU experiment / project needs to collapse and we start again with 10 or so countries as just a group of trading partners dump the EU parliment and leave it as that. 
But you still can't tell us what your issue with it is fazersharp.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 January 2019, 07:06:52 pm
Quote
You have actually summed it up very well - for once.
Just missed out a couple of important points :
Tory Hard Brexiteers take ages to get 48 signatures to try to oust May, then lose the vote 117/200.
Tory party is still as divided as it was at step 1.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 January 2019, 07:08:45 pm
Quote
If the whole EU project was just about trade like how it all started out as then that would be just fine but its not is it.Perhaps the whole EU experiment / project needs to collapse and we start again with 10 or so countries as just a group of trading partners dump the EU parliment and leave it as that. 
But you still can't tell us what your issue with it is fazersharp.

EVERYTHING except being part of a group of trading partners.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 07:39:40 pm
Quote
EVERYTHING except being part of a group of trading partners.
Which is?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 January 2019, 08:31:40 pm

You often hear The EU saying how The UK can't just cherry pick all the good bits of membership (or words to that effect).


That must mean there's some crap as well then?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 09:11:58 pm
I think the quote is;
 “Being a member of The European Union comes with rights and benefits, third countries cannot have the same rights and benefits, since they are not subject to the same obligations.”
“The single market and it’s full freedoms are indivisible, cherry picking is not an option."
Michel Barnier
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 January 2019, 09:13:38 pm

You often hear The EU saying how The UK can't just cherry pick all the good bits of membership (or words to that effect).


That must mean there's some crap as well then?.
I think even the most hardened remainers agree that the EU is not all perfect. But they think somehow they can improve it with their 9.7% influence. There is no changing the EU, leavers have woken up to this fact. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 09:23:29 pm
Quote
I think even the most hardened remainers agree that the EU is not all perfect.
Perhaps.  But unlike you you, they might just know what it is they don't like.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 07 January 2019, 09:39:36 pm
Quote
You hear that mtread ?  I'm the referee.....that means, I'm the good so I get to be Clint Eastwood. 

Dazza, You might be Clint Eastwood though, he's a friend of Trump.



Ahh, Donald Trump.....What a magnificent gentleman he is.
I hear he's selling rice to the Chinese..... That's like selling ice to the Eskimos  :lol


I think the EU is jealous that his plans to build  a wall will out "Trump"  :D the  one built along the Turkish border......Funded by.......The EU.
Good to know where your money is being spent
Of course, you can't build a wall, it's racist ...it's Fascist......they're just fucking cunts.... :grumble
Oh no, I'm starting to sound like VNA :lol


http://www.iamawake.co/the-eu-funded-wall-that-nobody-wants-to-talk-about-turkey-syria/ (http://www.iamawake.co/the-eu-funded-wall-that-nobody-wants-to-talk-about-turkey-syria/)



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 January 2019, 09:45:45 pm


You often hear The EU saying how The UK can't just cherry pick all the good bits of membership (or words to that effect).


That must mean there's some crap as well then?.
I think even the most hardened remainers agree that the EU is not all perfect. But they think somehow they can improve it with their 9.7% influence. There is no changing the EU, leavers have woken up to this fact.


The EU is an almost never ending project towards creating a European super-state and all that entails.


Some people are happy with that. I'm not.


One thing's for sure. They're right hacked off that we're getting out of it all. Bye bye, missing you already (not) lol.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 10:08:56 pm
Quote
The EU is an almost never ending project towards creating a European super-state and all that entails.
That’s just meaningless rhetoric.  In any case the EU is never going to become a super state.  And if you want to guarantee that such a fantasy never happens, well stay in so you can veto what will never be proposed.
 
Quote
Some people are happy with that. I'm not.
You are not happy about something that ain’t gonna happen.
That’s interesting. :)   
Quote
One thing's for sure. They're right hacked off that we're getting out of it all.
If you mean the EU, well of course they are not.  But at the end of the day it’s gonna hurt us a heck of a lot more than it’s gonna hurt them.  If we are really determined to do something stupid, well there ain’t much they can do to stop us.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 10:09:56 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwVS316WsAAbtIs.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 January 2019, 10:19:05 pm


If you mean the EU


Yes the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 January 2019, 10:21:56 pm

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwVS316WsAAbtIs.jpg:large)


Are you sure that's a stopwatch in his hand?. Looks suspiciously like a small bottle of brandy to me :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 January 2019, 10:54:43 pm
Quote
The EU is an almost never ending project towards creating a European super-state and all that entails.
That’s just meaningless rhetoric.  In any case the EU is never going to become a super state.  And if you want to guarantee that such a fantasy never happens, well stay in so you can veto what will never be proposed.
 
It is pretty much the stated direction of the EU with integration deepening. Junker wants a bigger EU budget and his dream is to have a directly-elected president of the EU.In his recent state of the union speech Junker appealed to MEPs and heads of government to give the EU the powers and characteristics traditionally restricted to states.
The EU wants its own foreign policy with decisions made on the basis of a qualified majority vote in which the will of 55% of member states would win the day. So our so called "veto" is an impotent joke. And path to a superstate is not one leap that can be vetoed but a series of smaller steps leading to the final goal.   
Even Juncker himself has conceded that the EU was “imperfect”.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 January 2019, 11:24:18 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA on Today at 10:08:56 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg290198.html#msg290198[/url])<blockquote>Quote<blockquote>The EU is an almost never ending project towards creating a European super-state and all that entails.</blockquote>That’s just meaningless rhetoric.  In any case the EU is never going to become a super state.  And if you want to guarantee that such a fantasy never happens, well stay in so you can veto what will never be proposed.
 </blockquote>It is pretty much the stated direction of the EU with integration deepening. Junker wants a bigger EU budget and his dream is to have a directly-elected president of the EU.In his recent state of the union speech Junker appealed to MEPs and heads of government to give the EU the powers and characteristics traditionally restricted to states.
The EU wants its own foreign policy with decisions made on the basis of a qualified majority vote in which the will of 55% of member states would win the day. So our so called "veto" is an impotent joke. And path to a superstate is not one leap that can be vetoed but a series of smaller steps leading to the final goal.   
Even Juncker himself has conceded that the EU was “imperfect”.   « Last Edit: Today at 11:00:58 PM » ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=posthistory;topic=24678.0;msg=290203[/url])

 Who doesn’t want a bigger budget.
 directly-elected president of the EU?   
 But that’s what you want.  Isn’t it?  Or can you not now make up your mind.


 Juncker expressed many hopes and visons in that speech, as is his right, and a lot of it good stuff too. 
But
1.        what are these powers and characteristics traditionally restricted to states
2.       How do you think that is going to be agreed?
 
The EU comprises of 28 members.  The EU is it’s members.  I don’t think you’ll get one member to agree to a majority vote forgein policy never mind 28.  Of course whatever that is.  Juncker can dream all he wants.




 
So you are saying that you want to leave the EU, for reasons concerning issues that have yet to happen, and quite frankly never will happen.  Not to mention the only way you can guarantee that, (I can't believe I'm saying this :lol ) what is not going to happen, is not going to happen, is by continued membership.The VETO.


 


 

 


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 January 2019, 11:47:57 pm

You say these things will 'never happen', but history has proved that the once unimaginable integration has indeed happened and continues apace.


Whoever could have imagined at the inception of the EEC that we would be where we are now?.


If that's what you're happy with fair enough. Not all of us are though. We had a referendum on it and it was rejected.


I'm surprised that someone who believes so strongly in the independence of countries within the UK is however happy to be shackled to the EU.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 08 January 2019, 12:01:13 am
Don't you just love rhetoric, hot air and second guessing.


Me or you shooting off your/my big mouth and falling out with each other will not make one jot or tittle of difference.


As the old saying goes 'Opinions are like Arseholes everybody has got one' and we are all different in our similarities.


I was watching Mrs May on the TV tonight and listening to her, not just what she was saying, but her tone and watching her mannerisms, I predict if she fails and I sadly believe she will (She has very few supporters where it matters) she will have a complete breakdown.


Like a lamb to the slaughter.  :'(


       
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 08 January 2019, 12:04:48 am
Just to lighten it up a bit  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 January 2019, 12:22:10 am
No the EU isn't perfect
The UK is far from perfect
My Local Council is not perfect
My Badminton Club isn't perfect


I/we can't decide all the rules.


As VNA said, if you want all the same trade agreements with the EU as before, you need to join a Customs Union with them, either within or outside of the EU. Whichever it is you need to accept a bunch of rules, otherwise it doesn't work.


So if we want a trade deal but be outside of the EU,  we go from 9.7% to 0%.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 12:24:06 am
Quote
she will have a complete breakdown.
She doesn't care.  It doesn't effect her.  All she ever wanted to do was play at being PM.
Don't be taken in by these actors.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 January 2019, 12:24:24 am
Quote
Just to lighten it up a bit 
:thumbup  COYS
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 12:25:24 am
Quote
So if we want a trade deal but be outside of the EU,  we go from 9.7% to 0%.
Or 100% (veto) to 0% (No Veto)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 12:43:36 am
 
Quote
Whoever could have imagined at the inception of the EEC that we would be where we are now?.
I know, it’s amazing.  A bit sad though that we’ve spent 40 years building this with our EU partners (all 27 of them – who would have ever thought!), we have been key architects in the whole thing, and now, hoodwinked by a bunch of charlatans, we could be about to throw it all away.
 
Quote
If that's what you're happy with fair enough. Not all of us are though. We had a referendum on it and it was rejected.

Yamfazfan, but like Fazersharp, you moan about unelected bureaucrats, but yet when one of those so called unelected bureaucrats suggests (perhaps having taken stock of some peoples concerns) that he be directly elected, the BREXITEERS express horror and revulsion.



The trowth is tha youse dinnae ken whit youse want.  But youse dae need somewan tae wyte. And youse will wyte whom ye huv been telt tae wyte.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 January 2019, 01:02:09 am
Quote
I was watching Mrs May on the TV tonight and listening to her, not just what she was saying, but her tone and watching her mannerisms, I predict if she fails and I sadly believe she will (She has very few supporters where it matters) she will have a complete breakdown.
Like a lamb to the slaughter. 

The woman who as Home Office Minister, created a 'hostile environment' which deported genuine British Citizens  :thumbdown
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 08 January 2019, 07:02:13 am

The trowth is tha youse dinnae ken whit youse want.  But youse dae need somewan tae wyte. And youse will wyte whom ye huv been telt tae wyte.
 


For the benefit of those who don't read old Scots




The truth is don't know what you want. but you do need someone to blame. And you will blame who you have been told to blame.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 January 2019, 08:36:07 am


Me or you shooting off your/my big mouth and falling out with each other



You speak for yourself. Oh you are :lol .



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 January 2019, 08:44:43 am

Don't you just love rhetoric, hot air and second guessing.


Me or you shooting off your/my big mouth and falling out with each other will not make one jot or tittle of difference.


As the old saying goes 'Opinions are like Arseholes everybody has got one' and we are all different in our similarities.


I was watching Mrs May on the TV tonight and listening to her, not just what she was saying, but her tone and watching her mannerisms, I predict if she fails and I sadly believe she will (She has very few supporters where it matters) she will have a complete breakdown.


Like a lamb to the slaughter.  :'(


     


Yep more pearls of wisdom from the Bard Of The Bricks :lol

Keep them coming :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 January 2019, 09:51:58 am

As VNA said, if you want all the same trade agreements with the EU as before, you need to join a Customs Union with them, either within or outside of the EU. Whichever it is you need to accept a bunch of rules, otherwise don't join, or leave the club if you don't like the rules and join another club where you do like the rules, there is a much bigger club called WTO.

Fixed it for you
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 January 2019, 09:53:42 am

Don't you just love rhetoric, hot air and second guessing.


Me or you shooting off your/my big mouth and falling out with each other will not make one jot or tittle of difference.


As the old saying goes 'Opinions are like Arseholes everybody has got one' and we are all different in our similarities.


I was watching Mrs May on the TV tonight and listening to her, not just what she was saying, but her tone and watching her mannerisms, I predict if she fails and I sadly believe she will (She has very few supporters where it matters) she will have a complete breakdown.


Like a lamb to the slaughter.  :'(


     


Yep more pearls of wisdom from the Bard Of The Bricks :lol

Keep them coming :lol
:rollin BOTB
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 January 2019, 10:10:50 am
Quote
a much bigger club called WTO
Which is a bit like standing in the street,  when the bouncers have chucked you out of the other clubs because you're too pissed to know what you're doing  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 January 2019, 10:36:59 am
Quote
a much bigger club called WTO
Which is a bit like standing in the street,  when the bouncers have chucked you out of the other clubs because you're too pissed to know what you're doing  :D
Nah ----getting lost now with that one
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Oldgit on 08 January 2019, 11:18:41 am
LGTFOOI.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 01:20:56 pm
 
Quote
Quote from: VNA on Today at 12:43:36 AM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg290212.html#msg290212[/url])<blockquote>
The trowth is tha youse dinnae ken whit youse want.  But youse dae need somewan tae wyte. And youse will wyte whom ye huv been telt tae wyte.
 
</blockquote>

For the benefit of those who don't read old Scots




The truth is don't know what you want. but you do need someone to blame. And you will blame who you have been told to blame.

Nice :)
 Though are you confusing Old English which is similar to Scots?  Scots just being Scots because unlike Old English it is a living language. 
Anyway aside fae nitpicking, I feel what I am saying is true.  The EU is the bogeyman.  We’ve been screwed by successive Tory and New Labour (Tory) governments, people are pissed off, and the extreme right have produced their bogeyman – which of course they have been working on for the last 20 years.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 01:32:51 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwYtwFEX0AMgraM.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 January 2019, 01:40:08 pm
Quote
Nah ----getting lost now with that one
OK I'll keep it simple. No Deal /WTO just ain't going to happen  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 January 2019, 02:33:40 pm

  We’ve been screwed by successive Tory and New Labour (Tory) governments, people are pissed off,
 
The only way we have been screwed by them is not to be given a vote on the issue for years. My dislike of the euro project go's back many years and transcends all political parties.
And you like to speak of bogey men and kicking the wrong ball which is exactly what YOU do with TR/SCYL
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 02:51:03 pm
Quote
My dislike of the euro project go's back many years and transcends all political parties.
Well yes project leave started more than two decades ago.
But it's one thing to dislike something, but quite another to be unable to express why it is you dislike something.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 January 2019, 04:20:49 pm
Quote
My dislike of the euro project go's back many years and transcends all political parties.
Well yes project leave started more than two decades ago.
But it's one thing to dislike something, but quite another to be unable to express why it is you dislike something.
We have expressed why we dislike the EU. Over and over again. Your worship of it and belief that it's completely fautless and the best thing since sliced bread obviously blinkers and deafens you to what we're saying.
I understand you won't agree with we've said, but please believe me we definately have said it :rolleyes .
The fact that you don't agree with it doesn't mean we haven't said it and you can just dismiss it. I don't agree with your stance on the EU, but i acknowledge that you've stated it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 January 2019, 04:22:35 pm
Quote
Though are you confusing Old English which is similar to Scots?  Scots just being Scots because unlike Old English it is a living language. 
The only Scots I know is something to do with wellies, and why they are important  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 January 2019, 05:01:10 pm
I dislike paying £13 billion per year to the EU for one reason.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 January 2019, 05:28:36 pm
Which is 0.8% of GDP. The forecast effect of Brexit on GDP start at minus 1.3% rising to minus 3.3%.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 05:41:47 pm
 
Quote
We have expressed why we dislike the EU. Over and over again.
OK, lets see where we are with the foc-u BREXITEER list of reasons for leaving the EU;
 
1.       Daylight running lamps
 2.       Graded Bananas
 3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather
 4.       Cheap and nasty food and drink imports
 5.       Crap inefficient electrical goods.
6.        Dislike paying EU dues
 
 
Yup definitely worth leaving and trashing our economy for. :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 08 January 2019, 07:33:22 pm
Quote
Prior to EU membership, i never had to pay 20% tax on anything i bought
That’s incorrect, as I’ve pointed out before VAT replaced the purchase tax in the UK.
Quote
So tell me again, how I'm better off in the EU
Agricola you continue to blame the EU for the policies of successive UK governments, and it appears local councils too. :eek
You were given a ball to kick, and like many others you kicked it hard.  But I’m afraid you’ve kicked the wrong ball.



So tell me how Im better off in the EU then


Still waiting


Still waiting


Still waiting
#




Still waiting


Still waiting  :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 08 January 2019, 07:40:52 pm
Allegedly, someone has called Anna Soubry a Nartzee, or called her Narsty. Either way, wouldn't one have thought that ones MPs were up for a little name calling? Sticks and stones and all that. Bit over the top to demand the old bill calls out more men on overtime, or pulls them away from crime investigations. I'm sure they could have treated her the same as the rest of us plebs, and given her a crime number.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 January 2019, 07:55:40 pm

It was out of order the way they were hauranging her. It was akin to intimidation.


So was that idiot that who was insulting Jacob Rees-mogg in front of his family the other month.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 January 2019, 07:58:09 pm
Jean-Claude Juncker became EC president one year after being more or less forced to resign from his position as president of Luxembourg, following a spying scandal involving the country’s intelligence service. In any country this would usually be considered the point at which your political career dies a quiet death. But the EU welcomed him aboard.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 January 2019, 08:03:30 pm
The EU regularly treats its Eastern European member states with contempt, sticking its nose into their sovereign matters. Eastern European states’ rejection of mandatory migrant quotas has fuelled tension. But the hectoring goes back much further. In 2006, the elected prime minister of Slovakia was instructed by Brussels to clamp down on political extremism and repress certain ways of thinking. That same year, the prime minister of Poland was forced by Brussels to declare that his government was not homophobic or anti-Semitic, and that it would not bring back the death penalty. And in 2011, the EU pressured the Hungarian government into rethinking its new constitution.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 January 2019, 08:05:22 pm
The EU’s risk-averse regulations are the scourge of innovation – and many are downright barmy. The price of oven gloves shot up this year after EU officials decided they would impose rigorous testing to ensure that they could withstand temperatures of up to 200 degrees centigrade (http://express.co.uk/news/uk/636541/Oven-gloves-EU). In 2010, EU officials suggested banning diabetics from driving (http://dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2028152/Million-drivers-face-losing-licence-EU-diabetes-diktat.html). Luckily, this ridiculous rule was never enforced.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 January 2019, 08:08:02 pm
When it comes to ignoring the democratic will of its member states, the EU has form. Its rejection of the Greek No vote in 2015 is just the tip of the iceberg. After Ireland voted to reject the Lisbon Treaty in 2008 it was forced to vote again. Under heavy pressure and borderline financial blackmail, it voted to wave it through the following year. This was the second time the Irish had been forced into a do-over. In 2002, a second referendum was held on the Treaty of Nice, after it was originally rejected in 2001. In 2005, the French rejected the EU Constitution, which was then promptly rebranded the Lisbon Treaty and pushed through the French parliament in 2009 by then president Nicolas Sarkozy.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 January 2019, 08:11:46 pm
EU officials are not shy about letting EU citizens know what they really think of them. Following the Brexit vote, European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker rejected British Leave voters’ capacity for independent thought by claiming we’d been brainwashed by ‘40 years of lies’. According to Juncker, the vote showed ‘something was wrong in Britain’. It has similarly libelled French, Irish and Dutch people as ‘ignorant’ when they voted against EU treaties.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 08 January 2019, 08:17:47 pm

i'll add a couple.
I intensely dislike bullies, and think you should stand up to them rather than keep acquiescing to them.
I intensely dislike being under the jack boot of jumped up nobodies from another country who I didn't know, let alone vote to govern me.
I intensely dislike patriotism being likened to racism/xenophobia



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 January 2019, 08:18:47 pm
Also the EU has just told Italy to redo their budget because the EU did not like it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 January 2019, 08:20:08 pm
Many in the Remain camp claim that leaving the EU is simply a xenophobic excuse for closing borders and stopping immigration. But while the EU offers free movement to those within its borders, those outside are treated brutally. According to the Overseas Development Institute (https://www.odi.org/opinion/10374-infographics-europe-spends-17-billion-curb-migration), Europe spent over €17 billion to curb migration between 2014 and 2016. By far the largest chunk of money, €15.3 billion, was spent outside of Europe – in many cases paying off African dictators to keep black migrants Thousands of immigrants have perished trying to cross into Europe illegally. More than [/size]2,500 people (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/31/more-than-2500-refugees-and-migrants-have-died-trying-to-cross-t/)[/color][/size] died trying to cross the Mediterranean between January and May this year, according to the United Nations refugee agency. During the same period last year, 1,855 people died. This is the direct result of a migration policy that is not only restrictive, but openly discriminatory.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 January 2019, 08:23:11 pm
EU officials are not shy about letting EU citizens know what they really think of them. Following the Brexit vote, European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker rejected British Leave voters’ capacity for independent thought by claiming we’d been brainwashed by ‘40 years of lies’. According to Juncker, the vote showed ‘something was wrong in Britain’. It has similarly libelled French, Irish and Dutch people as ‘ignorant’ when they voted against EU treaties.


That's what I really detest about the EU. No 'dissent' is allowed. No other opinion is entertained. If you don't agree and accept the EU's way you must be stark raving mad or brainwashed. The EU cannot be wrong.It gives me the creeps :thumbdown
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 January 2019, 08:23:52 pm
Not only has the EU wrecked the economies of its own member states, Africa gets it in the neck, too. The EU’s Common Agricultural Policy provides subsidies for the EU’s biggest landowners. This means the EU can export heavily subsidised food into Africa, ruining local trade for farmers who have to compete with the low prices. Meanwhile, EU restrictions on imports cost African countries millions.
As Brian Denny, spokesman for Trade Unionists Against the EU, has [/size]noted (https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-1abe-How-the-EU-starves-Africa#.V_ZRqvkrLIV)[/color][/size]: ‘Mozambique loses more than £100million a year because of restrictions on importing into the EU, coupled with the dumping of cheap exports at its door, while many thousands of workers in Swaziland have lost their jobs because the local industry cannot compete.’
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 January 2019, 08:26:15 pm
Blimey go for it dazza, you're on a roll tonight :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 January 2019, 08:29:55 pm
Allegedly, someone has called Anna Soubry a Nartzee, or called her Narsty. Either way, wouldn't one have thought that ones MPs were up for a little name calling? Sticks and stones and all that. Bit over the top to demand the old bill calls out more men on overtime, or pulls them away from crime investigations. I'm sure they could have treated her the same as the rest of us plebs, and given her a crime number.
Wasn't it her Government who cut the police. Bercow - gets on the blower to the commissioner and loads of police appear.
 It looked just like the way that the MPs behave at question time - didn't one of them call someone "a stupid woman". If they want better behaviour from the public then they should show the example in the commons. Funny, I saw sky news reporting on it - followed by a feature of one of their reporters doing exactly the same thing to another MP.         

Anyone remember when she was a tv presenter in the east midlands, she did lots of those Friday night audience shout fest things   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 January 2019, 08:51:20 pm
Neil Kinnock lost two elections as Labour leader from 1983 to 1992, stepping down after the party’s fourth consecutive election defeat. Having finally come to terms with his lack of appeal to the electorate, he took the next logical step: the unelected position of European commissioner for transport in 1995. The EU, temple of anti-democracy, will always provide a home for unpopular politicians.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 09:43:43 pm
 
Quote
Jean-Claude Juncker became EC president one year after being more or less forced to resign from his position as president of Luxembourg, following a spying scandal involving the country’s intelligence service. In any country this would usually be considered the point at which your political career dies a quiet death. But the EU welcomed him aboard.

He was cleared of any wrongdoing.  He was strongly criticised for focusing on his European work and neglecting his presidency in Luxembourg.
 
Quote
In 2006, the elected prime minister of Slovakia was instructed by Brussels to clamp down on political extremism and repress certain ways of thinking. That same year, the prime minister of Poland was forced by Brussels to declare that his government was not homophobic or anti-Semitic, and that it would not bring back the death penalty. And in 2011, the EU pressured the Hungarian government into rethinking its new constitution.
Too dam right.

The new succession countries were well aware of the high standards expected of them on joining the EU.  The EU does not tolerate racism, fascism, homophobia, anti-Semitism and so on.  You join the club you have to abide by the rules.  All these countries willingly joined the EU, all continue to enjoy EU membership.
Quote
The EU’s risk-averse regulations are the scourge of innovation – and many are downright barmy. The price of oven gloves shot up this year after EU officials decided they would impose rigorous testing to ensure that they could withstand temperatures of up to 200 degrees centigrade. In 2010, EU officials suggested banning diabetics from driving. Luckily, this ridiculous rule was never enforced.
Goodness gracious me, CE marked oven gloves that actually work :lol – why would anybody object.  My understanding of the diabetics issue was that it was partly about UK MEPs trying to get the EU to raise the basic EU driving standards up to the full UK standard.  In the UK diabetics who repeatedly hypo (ie their diabetes is not under control can have their licenses withdrawn.
 
Quote
When it comes to ignoring the democratic will of its member states, the EU has form. Its rejection of the Greek No vote in 2015 is just the tip of the iceberg. After Ireland voted to reject the Lisbon Treaty in 2008 it was forced to vote again. Under heavy pressure and borderline financial blackmail, it voted to wave it through the following year. This was the second time the Irish had been forced into a do-over. In 2002, a second referendum was held on the Treaty of Nice, after it was originally rejected in 2001. In 2005, the French rejected the EU Constitution, which was then promptly rebranded the Lisbon Treaty and pushed through the French parliament in 2009 by then president Nicolas Sarkozy.
Lets hope we too get the opportunity to vote again.  Now that people can see what BREXIT is about, they surely must be given the opportunity to change their minds.
Quote
European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker rejected British Leave voters’ capacity for independent thought by claiming we’d been brainwashed by ‘40 years of lies’. According to Juncker, the vote showed ‘something was wrong in Britain’.
Millions of people in the UK agree with him.   And here you are Dazza spreading lie after lie.
 
Quote
Many in the Remain camp claim that leaving the EU is simply a xenophobic excuse for closing borders and stopping immigration.
Most REMAINERS are well aware that it will make no difference to immigration.  Which begs the question of why the LEAVE campaigns campaigned on immigration.  More lies.  It’s not an issue. 
Quote
Africa gets it in the neck,
It’s not surprising considering that that is the tradition of many of the EU members (particulary the UK).  Not to mention the G8 (now the G7) as well.  The EPA deals need to be re-negotiated with certain African, Caribbean and Pacific state.   
Quote
Having finally come to terms with his lack of appeal to the electorate, he took the next logical step: the unelected position of European commissioner for transport in 1995. The EU, temple of anti-democracy, will always provide a home for unpopular politicians.
Mr Kinnock was appointed to his position by the then Prime Minister - John Major
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 09:45:00 pm
Will I add the right to have oven gloves that don't work to the list? :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 10:00:09 pm
Quote
It was out of order the way they were hauranging her. It was akin to intimidation.
I totally agree YanFazFan. :)   A nobody, trying to become somebody, called James Goddard is the ring leader.  I believe they are associates of Dazza’s hero.


I’ve seen the footage.  They were extremely intimidating.  They harassed a number of people that day.


There were police present but standing back.   However, I think their plan is to get arrested.  So Goddard and pals are trying to get arrested, whilst the police are trying not to arrest them.


Probably the short term solution is more police in the area to shadow them, reassure MP’s, members of the press and public, and until they get bored or arrested if they go way too far.   But yeah they are absolute fucking scum.



Meanwhile Facebook and PayPal have closed Goddard’s accounts.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 10:31:12 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwbBjHvX0AcPAQe.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 January 2019, 10:44:51 pm

What annoys me is that those idiots harm the cause that they purport to be supporting.


The vast majority of Leavers want nothing to do with that sort of behaviour. They're not representative of the Leave camp.















Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 January 2019, 11:08:33 pm
 
Quote
What annoys me is that those idiots harm the cause that they purport to be supporting.

They are football hooligans.  They don't care.   They have found a new game.  They are trying to get arrested, so they can scream that the establishment are trying to silence them, that’s it’s an attack on freedom of speech.  Blah, blah, blah.

This is some of their own footage, from a previous encounter, of which they are proud of.   Well deserving of arrest. 
I love how they ask her questions but shout her down before she can answer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mppVchHyaiA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mppVchHyaiA)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 January 2019, 12:07:25 am
Daft. Plain daft. Like I say, they're not representative of Leave.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 09 January 2019, 12:21:01 am
Quote
Meanwhile Facebook and PayPal have closed Goddard’s accounts.
And the poor little snowflake doesn't like it  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 09 January 2019, 12:23:25 am
Excellent vote tonight. Another step closer to stopping No Deal  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 09 January 2019, 05:09:17 am

What annoys me is that those idiots harm the cause that they purport to be supporting.


The vast majority of Leavers want nothing to do with that sort of behaviour. They're not representative of the Leave camp.
I totally agree with this.
Whether it's this bunch of goons or Tommy Robinson supporters who don't know how to conduct themselves, they only do harm to a valid point or argument.


It's the same when the anti fascist use violence and refuse to allow a protest they don't agree with.  Or left wingers and liberals constantly calling people racists and fascists because they're repeating what some fuckwit lefty has said on MSM.
It's all pathetic and as I said at the start, I don't agree with everything certain people say and do but if they're telling the truth, you have to accept that.
Sometimes the worst/or best thing the establishment can do (depending on who's side you looking at it from)
is attempt to silence someone.
Haven't they learnt.
What happens when they try and ban a record with lyrics they don't approve of.....it's a sure fire way to make it a no1 hit.


The only thing I will say...and it's not a defence of any intimidating behaviour.
Many other political figures have suffered real threats and intimidation and nothings ever been done about it.
All of a sudden, it got close to home and shits just got real.
It's an inevitable consequence of people feeling that the democratic structure is not being respected.
That said, I certainly don't approve.

You can always rely on Scotland being civilized and welcoming though. :rolleyes


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=526552314509766&id=794492093982367








Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 January 2019, 08:24:12 am

Yes there's disgraceful behaviour on the Remain side. They haven't come out of all this with a lot of credibility.







Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 09 January 2019, 11:47:36 am
VNA I followed your utube link and ended up finding something interesting. I do not agree with the yobish behaviour but why would She take the same route as before after coming off the bbc stage knowing what happened last time, I think the idiots fell right into an orchestrated trap designed so it could be an excuse to call in extra police and shut down the protesters.Here is the utube link. What do you lot make of it.    Sorry... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqw0d4l433c&feature=youtu.be#)
And twitter https://twitter.com/PrinceBraith9th/status/1082770279653408770 (https://twitter.com/PrinceBraith9th/status/1082770279653408770)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 January 2019, 11:52:09 am
 
Quote
You can always rely on Scotland being civilized and welcoming though. :rolleyes

Indeed, your hero has attempted a number of trips north of the border recently.  His last plan was to attend a Hearts match.  He wanted to pay respect, apparently, to McCrea’s Battalion.  He had already posted a photo on his facebook page of some 30 fans posing in front of a McCrea’s Battalion banner wearing masks of his face.  This absolutely outraged the vast majority of decent supporters.


He cancelled his trip.  I understand he was advised to do so by the police.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 January 2019, 12:07:57 pm
Quote
VNA I followed your utube link and ended up finding something interesting. I do not agree with the yobish behaviour but why would She take the same route as before after coming off the bbc stage knowing what happened last time, I think the idiots fell right into an orchestrated trap designed so it could be an excuse to call in extra police and shut down the protesters.Here is the utube link. What do you make of it.   
Yeah an uncover policeman made em all behave like that.
They ain't shutting down the protests.  You can look at it another way, the extra police are there to ensure that legitimate protest can take place. 

These football holigans, as that is what they are, would like nothing more than to see the right to protest outside parliament withdrawn.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 09 January 2019, 12:28:03 pm
Fazersharp, this happens all the time.
I've seen with my own eyes antifa insulting and attacking TR supporters, male and female and when there's an expected reaction, MSM cameras suddenly appear out of nowhere to capture the reaction.
Yes, of course it's orchestrated and the police and security forces are well versed in this tactic.


Then you have VNA......the pretend voice of reasonable, rational thought, venomously shouting down any extreme behaviour from the right but mention the same behaviour from his own countrymen and you can tell from his text that he all of a sudden thinks it's ok for certain people with opposing views to be under threat or intimidation.
Typical double standards and so blatantly obvious.
Of course, their self righteous smoke screen blinds them to the fact that this is just as bad as the very thing they are shouting down.
I think it's funny, it amuses the fuck out of me.
Rattling VNA's cage is such a great pastime.
He's so predictable.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 January 2019, 12:40:48 pm
Quote
I've seen with my own eyes antifa insulting and attacking TR supporters, male and female and when there's an expected reaction, MSM cameras suddenly appear out of nowhere to capture the reaction.

So were you with them?
Quote
Groups who have joined the effort to keep Yaxley-Lennon away include Stand Up to Racism Scotland, Hearts Lads and Lassies against Fascism, Show Racism the Red Card Scotland, The Muslim Council of Scotland, and Edinburgh and Lothian Regional Equality Council.
Luke Henderson, from Unite Against Fascism Edinburgh, said the number of people who would welcome the activist to Scottish football represented a “miniscule number of racists”.
He said: “He’s a dangerous, far-right campaigner with a lengthy criminal record. He seeks to inflame Islamophobia and wider racism. There is no place for him in Scotland, or Scottish football.”
Read more at [url]http://thirdforcenews.org.uk/tfn-news/group-aims-to-keep-tommy-robinson-out-of-scottish-football#CElRIBIwELDwh6Fb.99[/url] ([url]http://thirdforcenews.org.uk/tfn-news/group-aims-to-keep-tommy-robinson-out-of-scottish-football#CElRIBIwELDwh6Fb.99[/url])

I'm more than happy that the filthy racist bastard that is Yaxley-Lennon is not welcome in Scotland. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 09 January 2019, 01:24:29 pm
First of all VNA, it doesn't matter whether I was with "them" or not. Being there, doesn't make you guilty of anything or labelled as anything.
What you don't know, is what I do for a living and where my work takes me.
Let's just say that I was in the vicinity of Trafalgar Square on one occasion when people marched against the arrest of Tommy Robinson.


I saw with my own eyes the vast majority of those people were normal, peaceful citizens of every race, gender,age and country who were against the arrest and treatment of him.
On the first one, estimates were over 40 000.
 I saw thuggish and embarrassing behaviour from some of his supporters, a large contingent were in fact football supporters.
However, I never saw any of them start trouble.
I saw the police trying to kettle them, I saw, undercover police trying to rile them up. I saw antifa being allowed to enter an exclusion zone and cause havoc.
I saw an elderly TR supporter assaulted by one in an unprovoked attack and channel 4 cameras waiting in the wings to capture the reaction.
I spoke to normal bobbies who in their own words were just their for the money and I saw menacing looking police sargents pacing between them trying to impose their own agenda and interpretation of anything the speakers were saying.
I saw, what I can only describe as a bunch of boozed up football hooligans throw beer cans at police horses and riot police after being pushed and kettled and they are the ones who don't represent and are an embarrassment.

I'm not going to defend them because their wrong.


What have you seen VNA.....fuck all. Only what the MSM wants you to see and what you want to believe.


You see, what your trying to do is paint me the same as them in an attempt to discredit me.
Anyone on here who has met and knows me well enough knows what I do for a living and why I would be in the area.
I certainly don't have to justify myself to you.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 January 2019, 01:41:19 pm
Quote
Let's just say that I was in the vicinity of Trafalgar Square on one occasion when people marched against the arrest of Tommy Robinson.
Fuck SYL and fuck his supporters too.
Quote
What have you seen VNA.....fuck all. Only what the MSM wants you to see and what you want to believe.
You don't know what I have or have not seen.  You don't know me.
Quote
I saw with my own eyes the vast majority of those people were normal, peaceful citizens of every race, gender,age and country who were against the arrest and treatment of him.
Every race, gender, age and country?  Ya fud :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 09 January 2019, 02:02:13 pm
That bloke in the vid looked (to me) definitely a cop or at least someone planted there to help stir things up, search other footage of him at black rod entrance and he is the first to shout "scum" whilst looking around for support and with one hand to the right of his mouth to direct his voice to the crowd,it dose look like he put something in her staff members pocket, even if he did not there was no reaction by that staff member, nobody knows the mystery bloke, he seemed to be on his own but he has been seen before if he does not appear again then it looks like he is defiantly a "plant"
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 January 2019, 02:32:38 pm
Quote
That bloke in the vid looked (to me) definitely a cop or at least someone planted there to help stir things up, search other footage of him at black rod entrance and he is the first to shout "scum" whilst looking around for support and with one hand to the right of his mouth to direct his voice to the crowd,it dose look like he put something in her staff members pocket, even if he did not there was no reaction by that staff member, nobody knows the mystery bloke, he seemed to be on his own but he has been seen before if he does not appear again then it looks like he is defiantly a "plant"
Firstly who cares.  These people are scum.  Pure and simple.
I don't know if you've ever been involved in a protest or direct action (though the reality is that this is neither) but one thing you make sure of is who is around you. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 09 January 2019, 02:46:58 pm
Quote
Yes there's disgraceful behaviour on the Remain side. They haven't come out of all this with a lot of credibility.
What?  :eek They shouldn't have targeted Rees-Mogg's family, but apart from that? What waving EU flags from across the road?
How many Leave supporting MPs have been threatened with murder and rape?
Perhaps you could come up with some examples of equivalent 'disgraceful Remain behaviour'
Remain can get 700,000 protesters on the street without incident. Leave can't even get 20 without it kicking off.
Leave attracts the nasty extreme right wing. Should there be a second referendum,  the public will associate Leave with this scum.
Oh and RIP Jo Cox
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 January 2019, 04:21:55 pm

I'm referring to Remain trying to overturn/reverse the vote to leave and cheat us out of Brexit.


Disgraceful.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 09 January 2019, 04:39:18 pm
I don't know if you've ever been involved in a protest or direct action (though the reality is that this is neither) but one thing you make sure of is who is around you.
Gay pride marches don't count VNA  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 January 2019, 05:32:53 pm
Quote
Gay pride marches don't count VNA  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Homophobic Dazza?  What a surprise!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 09 January 2019, 05:42:41 pm
Quote
Gay pride marches don't count VNA  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Homophobic Dazza?  What a surprise!

Rattling VNA's cage is such a great pastime.
He's so predictable.  :lol



 :lol How predictable :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 January 2019, 05:53:08 pm
(https://www.yorkmix.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/tim-martin-punch-bowl-york-864x870.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 09 January 2019, 06:06:02 pm
Quote
That bloke in the vid looked (to me) definitely a cop or at least someone planted there to help stir things up, search other footage of him at black rod entrance and he is the first to shout "scum" whilst looking around for support and with one hand to the right of his mouth to direct his voice to the crowd,it dose look like he put something in her staff members pocket, even if he did not there was no reaction by that staff member, nobody knows the mystery bloke, he seemed to be on his own but he has been seen before if he does not appear again then it looks like he is defiantly a "plant"
Firstly who cares.  These people are scum.  Pure and simple.
Yes they are but the point is that YOU are being played just as much as the protesters are, that undercover agitator is there to whip them up - which in turn whips up the far left which then allows the establishment to clamp down in a way that otherwise would not be tolerated. You need to control your left knee-jerk because as you yourself are always keen to point out ---you are kicking out at the wrong people.         
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 January 2019, 06:08:09 pm
Quote
that undercover agitator is there to whip them up
The so called undercover agitator is one of them.  Doh.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 09 January 2019, 06:10:50 pm
Quote
that undercover agitator is there to whip them up
The so called undercover agitator is one of them.  Doh.

Is he - have they found out who he is.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 January 2019, 08:59:35 pm
Just watching the news and they were saying how anything can happen between now and the end of March.
Parliament voted to give the public a referendum. Leave won it. Parliament voted to trigger Article 50.
How's it possible that anything can happen?. We're leaving aren't we?. Have I missed something here? :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 January 2019, 09:59:09 pm
 
Quote
Just watching the news and they were saying how anything can happen between now and the end of March.

Well yes.  The government is now being voted down on an almost daily basis.  This is unprecedented.

Quote
Parliament voted to give the public a referendum. Leave won it. Parliament voted to trigger Article 50.

Indeed.

Quote
How's it possible that anything can happen?. We're leaving aren't we?. Have I missed something here? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])

Clearly you haven’t been paying attention.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 January 2019, 12:54:02 am
Quote
I'm referring to Remain trying to overturn/reverse the vote to leave and cheat us out of Brexit.
Disgraceful.
No comparison with what's going on outside Parliament, and it's no excuse either.
Anyway it seems Parliament is doing just that  :)
'No Deal' is fast becoming no deal :D
Waiting for the 700,000 Leave supporters to protest in Trafalgar Square....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 January 2019, 10:19:03 am


Quote
How's it possible that anything can happen?. We're leaving aren't we?. Have I missed something here? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])

Clearly you haven’t been paying attention.



It's the opposite. I've been paying too much attention :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 10 January 2019, 11:37:37 am
Quote
Waiting for the 700,000 Leave supporters to protest in Trafalgar Square....
Don't hold your breath :lol


Meanwhile, how does my prediction look;

1.       May fails to get her deal past parliament
2.       JC calls for a vote of no confidence.
3.       JC looses vote when DUP votes with Tory party.
4.       Parliament in absolute deadlock and turmoil.  Government has failed.
5.       MP’s act across party lines and vote through a second referendum.
6.       Eventually the question is Cancel article 50 or NO DEAL
7.       The nightmare campaign begins.
8.       The people aren’t quite crazy enough to throw themselves off a cliff, so article 50 is cancelled.  It goes through with a substantial majority – people want an end this this shit.

It's looking good.  We can already see that to some degree 5 is already happening.
Which in turn should mean that May won't be able put the frighteners on MP's at 1.And they have already acted to ensure that 2 will quickly follow.
Everything looks OK at the mo. :)


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 10 January 2019, 11:41:37 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dwf8064X0AIPnWw.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 January 2019, 12:28:27 pm
And the scum's next target will be Bercow after the Mail/Sun/Express write their usual venom laced headlines  :(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 January 2019, 12:52:24 pm

I can't bear all this talk of 'scum' and 'nazis' etc...


It's just smear after smear. The vast majority of Leave voters are nothing like that and don't want anything to do with that sort of thing.











Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 10 January 2019, 01:49:04 pm
Quote
And the scum's next target will be Bercow after the Mail/Sun/Express write their usual venom laced headlines  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/sad.gif[/url])

You mean like this,
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4aIH6CXAAQ8-IU.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 January 2019, 02:39:37 pm
Quote
The vast majority of Leave voters are nothing like that and don't want anything to do with that sort of thing.
Absolutely  :thumbup Unfortunately the Mail etc winds up the ones that are like that, and gives them 'justification'.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 10 January 2019, 09:10:25 pm
Quote
Waiting for the 700,000 Leave supporters to protest in Trafalgar Square....
Don't hold your breath :lol


Meanwhile, how does my prediction look;

1.       May fails to get her deal past parliament
2.       JC calls for a vote of no confidence.
3.       JC looses vote when DUP votes with Tory party.
4.       Parliament in absolute deadlock and turmoil.  Government has failed.
5.       MP’s act across party lines and vote through a second referendum.
6.       Eventually the question is Cancel article 50 or NO DEAL
7.       The nightmare campaign begins.
8.       The people aren’t quite crazy enough to throw themselves off a cliff, so article 50 is cancelled.  It goes through with a substantial majority – people want an end this this shit.

It's looking good.  We can already see that to some degree 5 is already happening.
Which in turn should mean that May won't be able put the frighteners on MP's at 1.And they have already acted to ensure that 2 will quickly follow.
Everything looks OK at the mo. :)


Allow me to re-write nos 6 and 8 for you


6. Eventually the question is "Confirm or Cancel Article 50"
8. The people confirm their original decision to leave the EU - people want an end to this shit
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 10 January 2019, 10:05:54 pm
Quote
6. Eventually the question is "Confirm or Cancel Article 50"
8. The people confirm their original decision to leave the EU - people want an end to this shit

Well no.   The reason it is cancel Article 50 or NO Deal is;


Parliament has failed to come up with a deal.  There is no deal that is better than the deal we currently have.  Secondly parliament will not implement a NO DEAL BREXIT.


Therefore, to move things forward it has to go back to the people.  The people have to understand that a deal is not possible.  And that further MP’s will not vote to throw the UK economy off a cliff.


So it would be for the people to decide.  Stop the madness, or take kamikaze action. 



But your idea of ‘confirm’ is meaningless and would simply take us back to step 1.  So no that will not happen.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 January 2019, 11:51:39 pm
Quote
8. The people confirm their original decision to leave the EU
As VNA said. This is where we are now. How do you propose this takes us forward? One of the following must occur.
9a May's deal - Parliament is (probably) going to vote against it
9b No Deal - Parliament (including most of the government) definitely will vote against it. They will postpone /withdraw Article 50 to stop it happening
9c Some other deal (yet to be decided - better be fast!)
9d Have another referendum on some as yet undecided question
9e Have a general election.
The 'will of the people' means nothing because Parliament makes decisions. The decisions are made on detail not on direction.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 January 2019, 09:04:26 am


So Parliament will not vote in favour of 'Deal'.


Parliament will also not vote in favour of 'No Deal'.


If there's a second referendum and Leave win again we're back to where we are now, with Parliament refusing to pass any leave deal.


If Remain win a second referendum we stay in The EU.


In other words, despite Leave having won the biggest vote in history the only conclusion that Parliament will accept is remain.


That's supposed to be democracy is it?.




That's it, I'm finished with this thread and I'm never voting again.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 11 January 2019, 10:36:47 am
What about 9c? Leave but with a better deal that's acceptable to the majority of Parliament. Norway +, Customs Union with a bit of Single Market + registration system for EU workers, or something like that.


Don't give up yet!  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 January 2019, 11:07:02 am

Labour will just oppose anything she proposes for the sake of it. It makes me fed up now. The Speaker annoyed me on Wednesday also. It's so blatant.


Hang on I'm not supposed to be posting again :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Oldgit on 11 January 2019, 11:09:57 am

MP's sack the friggin lot of them, the self serving Knuts that they are.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 11 January 2019, 11:46:33 am
There is no such thing as NO DEAL. We take up where we left off before we joined
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 11 January 2019, 11:56:47 am
There's a general election. The Conservatives split lead by Boris.
  Boris wins and is PM and we have a clean break from the EU
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 January 2019, 12:06:16 pm
Quote
There is no such thing as NO DEAL. We take up where we left off before we joined
Sure, no problem, and a 1970's UK economy is what you'll end up with.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 January 2019, 12:10:53 pm
 
Quote
If there's a second referendum and Leave win again we're back to where we are now, with Parliament refusing to pass any leave deal.

No, no, no, no. >: >: >:


You are not paying attention Mr Fan. :rolleyes


Firstly, we do not know yet if there will be a second referendum.  But what was not so long ago thought to be highly unlikely is now a strong possibility.


Secondly, if there is, then the question needs to be decided on.  That will not be easy.


Thirdly, Not much mention of this yet, but logically, and I’d put good money on this being the case if there were to be a second referendum, whatever the question the referendum needs to be legally binding, as apposed to the 2016 referendum which was a consultative referendum. 



Quote
Labour will just oppose anything she proposes for the sake of it. It makes me fed up now. The Speaker annoyed me on Wednesday also. It's so blatant.


Not so.  She hasn’t come to the table with anything that Labour can support.  And as a minority government (as she lost her majority in her snap general election) rather than bring others in (ie consult with or appoint opposition party members to a BREXIT committee or whatever) she went to the other extreme and tried to by-pass parliament altogether.  Now she is paying the price.


 
And pay attention to mtread Mr Fan – Labour will do a deal.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 11 January 2019, 01:14:49 pm
Quote
Labour will just oppose anything she proposes for the sake of it.
9c is actually Labour's current proposal. She opposes it (at the moment)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 11 January 2019, 01:19:17 pm
Quote
There's a general election. The Conservatives split lead by Boris.  Boris wins and is PM and we have a clean break from the EU
  • Nigel becomes Lord and joins the government as foreign secretary.
  • Tommy joins the government as Sir TRSCYL as Home secretary
  • Martin Lewis becomes chancellor
  • Dr Christian Jessen Health minster. ( the gay doctor on tv) I had to google his name by typing "gay doctor on tv"
  • I will become transport minister and ban all cars - except for the one I have (when its raining - or damp)
  • VNA becomes the PM of scotland and offers a referendum to the WHOLE of the UK for scotland to split with the UK
  • scotland votes to remain in the UK and the UK votes to kick scotland out
  • scotland rejoins the EU
  • The uk once again enjoys bendy bananas
  • scotland are forced to eat straight bananas
  • [/l][/l]

Like it  :lol
[/list]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 11 January 2019, 05:58:52 pm
 
always seem to have problem loading pictures.anyone knows why?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 12 January 2019, 02:10:29 am

I can't bear all this talk of 'scum' and 'nazis' etc...


It's just smear after smear. The vast majority of Leave voters are nothing like that and don't want anything to do with that sort of thing.
Just been watching a program about the Nazis and Fascists during WW2 and the appalling crimes against humanity they committed.
Let them carry on calling everyone scum, Nazis and Fascists, it just goes to show how little they are in touch with reality and how little they really know what the true meaning is.
Shame on them really.
They say it to fit their own political agenda but give no thought to the human price paid in defeating this scourge of humanity.
A right wing political leaner with a genuine gripe against a government that has put democracy behind their own political agenda or someone who wants out of an undemocratic organisation that is the EU, or someone who is appalled by the rise of an extremist Islamic culture who thinks they can rape our underage children is not, and will never be a Nazi....... Calling people these names  is actually  insulting every normal thinking person and everyone who fought against them.
This also includes, right wing tossers shouting it at MP'S.


So carry on, show your complete ignorance of the meaning of your labels.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 12 January 2019, 02:31:16 am
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Oldgit on 12 January 2019, 02:43:44 pm

And MP,s refusing to enact the will of the people

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 January 2019, 03:05:43 pm
 You might want to ask yourself how the Nazi’s came to power in the first place Dazza.  How and why they came to pick on an ethnic minority, and the techniques they used to demonise that community to the extent that it’s ‘elimination’ became acceptable.


Germany didn’t turn into Nazi Germany overnight.



As for people like SCYL, they threaten, bully and intimidate others.  You give them an inch, you appease them Dazza, and they will take a yard or whatever they can get.  SCYL’s EDL routinely used the Nazi salute.  A tactic of the EDL was to hang about at leftie protests and marches taking photographs which they then posted on the internet and appealed for details of individuals.  They routinely published individuals personal details such as address and phone number.  Numerous people endured hellish intimidation at the hands of these fascist thugs, yes Dazza fascists.


Nobody should be intimidated, beaten up or killed because of their colour, culture, religion, cast, nationality, political views or whatever.


It is in the interest of “every normal thinking person” to stand up to those who do believe in intimidating and targeting the above and to call them out for what they are;


They are fascists.


And no we should never forget the German Nazi’s and what they did, and that means never letting them rise again. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 January 2019, 03:57:22 pm
Quote
someone who is appalled by the rise of an Islamic culture who thinks they can rape our underage children is not, and will never be a Nazi..
Except of course they are only appalled when it's about Muslims. When one of their own rapes underage girls, they turn a blind eye. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 12 January 2019, 07:31:03 pm
Quote
someone who is appalled by the rise of an Islamic culture who thinks they can rape our underage children is not, and will never be a Nazi..
Except of course they are only appalled when it's about Muslims. When one of their own rapes underage girls, they turn a blind eye.

that is a godawful thing to say. And completely untrue.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 12 January 2019, 08:15:36 pm
Quote
someone who is appalled by the rise of an Islamic culture who thinks they can rape our underage children is not, and will never be a Nazi..
Except of course they are only appalled when it's about Muslims. When one of their own rapes underage girls, they turn a blind eye. 
Stupid statement
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 January 2019, 08:35:10 pm
Quote
Except of course they are only appalled when it's about Muslims. When one of their own rapes underage girls, they turn a blind eye.
I'm wondering what is so offensive about this statement.And why are people suddenly jumping to the defense of facists.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 12 January 2019, 08:39:09 pm
Quote
Except of course they are only appalled when it's about Muslims. When one of their own rapes underage girls, they turn a blind eye.
I'm wondering what is so offensive about this statement.And why are people suddenly jumping to the defense of facists.

Its not offensive - its stupid
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 January 2019, 08:45:28 pm
Quote
someone who is appalled by the rise of an Islamic culture who thinks they can rape our underage children is not, and will never be a Nazi..
Surely this is extraordinarily offensive. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 12 January 2019, 08:49:34 pm
Quote
someone who is appalled by the rise of an Islamic culture who thinks they can rape our underage children is not, and will never be a Nazi..
Surely this is extraordinarily offensive. 
 

Yes but that is not in my quote is it, to which I said "not offensive but stupid" -stupid.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 January 2019, 09:13:03 pm
Quote
Except of course they are only appalled when it's about Muslims. When one of their own rapes underage girls, they turn a blind eye.
What's stupid about it?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 12 January 2019, 09:15:30 pm
Quote
Except of course they are only appalled when it's about Muslims. When one of their own rapes underage girls, they turn a blind eye.
What's stupid about it?

Glad to see that you are feeling better and on the mend. :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 January 2019, 09:19:37 pm
Quote
Glad to see that you are feeling better and on the mend. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/thumbup.gif[/url])

Afraid not.  Was getting a bit better then yesterday I had my worst day so far.  Foccin agony.
Anyway stop avoiding the question. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 January 2019, 01:27:40 am
Robert Ewing, ex-BNP and EDL member charged over missing Blackpool schoolgirl Paige Chivvers and implied sexual activity

Kane Hutchinson, Newcastle EDL, convicted of serial child abuse.
John Broomfield, EDL and British Freedom supporter, ‘making indecent images of children.
Michael McQueenie, EDL Blackburn, pleaded guilty of two counts of rape of a 14-year-old girl and sexual assault.
Archie Sliman, EDL : kidnapping and sexually abusing 10-year-old girl.
...... and so on.
Stupid comments? I don't remember SYL and Co campaigning about these ones

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 13 January 2019, 07:56:03 am

I'm sure it was not general comment about the majority of Muslims, but about those vile gangs and other individuals that mainly preyed on young girls/boys in care, in several of our towns and cities. After 34 years serving the crown and dealing with the scumbags that commit these crimes I can tell you there is no difference in the perpetrators of this vile crime no matter what their race, colour, or religion. They are devious, dangerous, only concerned for there own needs, and not a second thought for their victims.   
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 January 2019, 09:50:12 am
Here's a few more :

Brett Moses EDL Hull: 12-month prison sentence for sexual grooming
Matthew Woodward, Deeside EDL: charged with child pornography and soliciting a 13 year old for photographs.
Alan Thomas Ellis, Deeside EDL: convicted of sending texts of a sexual nature to a 14 year old girl.
Darren Francis, BNP, sexual relationship with 13 year old
Wayne Payne, EDL supporter and child killer
So perhaps the nasty racist  thug 'our Tommy' was just looking the other way when these happened. Or perhaps he's just a fucking hypocrite. :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Flooky on 13 January 2019, 01:00:08 pm

I try to stay out of politics but I am really worried about Brexit not going ahead.(for whatever reason)
The UK is a democracy and people who voted to stay or leave should all agree that the vote should be honoured.
If it isn't then the whole system comes crashing down, and I think it will kick off big time. (maybe rightly so ).
Anything else should be shelved for now, there was a vote, it was close, but if its not upheld it will be worse for all of us for years.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 13 January 2019, 03:07:01 pm

, and I think it will kick off big time. (maybe rightly so ).

I think I am going to open a yellow vest shop. The irony of this is that the high viz vest is not classed a protective clothing and therefore attracts VAT which -------that's rights go's to the EU  :wall   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 January 2019, 03:40:52 pm
 
Quote
I'm sure it was not general comment about the majority of Muslims,
But it seems to be perfectly OK on this forum to repeatedly insinuate just that.  Not only that but praise for those who intimidate ethnic minorities goes largely unchallenged.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 13 January 2019, 06:19:00 pm
If corbin is saying he will call for no confidence in the government and a general election if May's deal does not get voted through, then wont that mean that Conservatives are more inclined to vote it through for fear of an election contest they don't want.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 13 January 2019, 06:21:53 pm
If corbin is saying he will call for no confidence in the government and a general election if May's deal does not get voted through, then wont that mean that Conservatives are more inclined to vote it through for fear of an election contest they don't want.   

you'd think so, but I doubt it mate. Their own personal self serving agendas come before loyalty to party or country nowadays. All the latest polls seem to indicate the majority of the public just want out with Mays deal now, but I doubt that will sway them either
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 January 2019, 07:06:50 pm
 
Quote
If corbin is saying he will call for no confidence in the government and a general election if May's deal does not get voted through, then wont that mean that Conservatives are more inclined to vote it through for fear of an election contest they don't want.   
Well no, because every single Tory will vote that they have confidence in Ms May.  The DUP will vote that they have confidence in May.  Labour will loose the no confidence vote.
Quote
Their own personal self serving agendas come before loyalty to party or country nowadays.
MP’s have a duty to represent the best interest of their constituents.  That's it.
Quote
All the latest polls seem to indicate the majority of the public just want out with Mays deal now, but I doubt that will sway them either
I haven’t seen any polls that say that.  And if that is the case (and I doubt it), it’s what people in England want but it certainly ain’t what people in Northern Ireland or Scotland want. 



And let us not forget what May’s deal is.  It is an agreement that allows us to continue to trade with the EU as members of the single market.  However, we will be a rule taker, we will no longer have any say whatsoever in the market.  It simply allows to continue to trade while we try to reach an agreement on our future trading arrangements.  It’s a transitional deal.  It is not a deal to leave the EU.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 January 2019, 07:13:34 pm
 
Quote
I try to stay out of politics but I am really worried about Brexit not going ahead.(for whatever reason)
Whereas a great many people are seriously worried that BREXIT may actually happen one day.  That is whatever BRXIT is.
Quote
The UK is a democracy and people who voted to stay or leave should all agree that the vote should be honoured.
The UK is a representative democracy.  We elect people to govern in our best interest and take decisions on our behalf. 



Further there are four countries in the UK.  We are a sovereign union.  2 out of the 4 countreis in this union voted to REMAIN.
Quote
If it isn't then the whole system comes crashing down, and I think it will kick off big time. (maybe rightly so ).
Whereas as what we are actually seeing is a representative democracy acting as it should.  MP’s are ignoring their party whips and acting in the best interests of their constituents. :)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 January 2019, 07:17:06 pm
Quote
and therefore attracts VAT which -------that's rights go's to the EU
Err no it doesn't. It's Customs Duties which go to the EU. That's because of the EU wide free trade area. A small proportion of all VAT collected goes to the EU. That's how they calculate each member state's relative contribution. Before rebates of course.
Get it right  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 13 January 2019, 07:51:43 pm
Quote
and therefore attracts VAT which -------that's rights go's to the EU
Err no it doesn't. It's Customs Duties which go to the EU. That's because of the EU wide free trade area. A small proportion of all VAT collected goes to the EU. That's how they calculate each member state's relative contribution. Before rebates of course.
Get it right  :rolleyes
My yellow vest post was tongue in cheek and was meant as a joke - you have to go and suck the joy out of everything.
You say a small proportion but it did add up to between 15% and 21% of the EUs yearly revenue income between 2000 and 2014 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 January 2019, 08:22:33 pm
Then you should have put a wink/smiley/chuckle after! You told me off once for not doing that  :)
Yes I've just Googled the same pages as you. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 January 2019, 08:23:48 pm
 
Quote
Just to suck a bit more non-existent joy out of your non-existent unfunny joke;
I just like to point out that before we had VAT we had the much more complicated and costly to administer Purchase Tax. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 January 2019, 08:35:53 pm
Quote
All the latest polls seem to indicate the majority of the public just want out with Mays deal now, but I doubt that will sway them either
I've just google poll of polls etc, and I can't come up with anything like that.
This is what I am coming up with;
There is the whatukthinks.org complied poll of polls results from polls asking common questions.
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union? Result as of 11th January.
.
REMAIN – 47%LEAVE 45%....
If there was another referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?.
.
Result as of 4th January.
REMAIN – 46%LEAVE – 39%....
Poll of all phone pollsREMAIN – 62%LEAVE – 38%VNA’s poll of all the polls poll
.
REMAIN – 52%LEAVE – 41% :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)



 
 


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 13 January 2019, 08:46:48 pm
Then you should have put a wink/smiley/chuckle after! You told me off once for not doing that  :)
:uhuh Yes you are right  :eek   I suppose I should of  :o but no one other than a rabid remainer  :evil would thought  :think that I was seriously going to open a yellow vest shop  :rolleyes so I did not think It needed one :pokefun ;) :smokin :kiss :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 January 2019, 08:53:04 pm
Quote
I just like to point out that before we had VAT we had the much more complicated and costly to administer Purchase Tax. 
VAT replaced Purchase Tax and Selective Employment Tax (SET). To be fair VAT is probably more costly and certainly more complicated than PT. However VAT brings in a lot more revenue than PT ever did, even allowing for inflation. But of course that is why Income Tax and Corporation Tax rates are so low. VAT is making up the difference, paying for NHS, Defence, Education etc etc.
There I go, sucking the joy out of everything with my specialist subject  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 13 January 2019, 08:54:34 pm
REMAIN – 52%LEAVE – 41% :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

I just googled how many people in the uk believes in aliens and it is also 52% (u-gov)
 Your above figures only add up to 93% does that mean that perhaps the missing 7% have been abducted by the aliens that the 52% believe in ( :lol ) smiley for mtread
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 13 January 2019, 08:57:41 pm
Quote
There I go, sucking the joy out of everything with my specialist subject  :)

 
Quote

Yes I've just Googled the same pages as you. .


 
Quote
You said that you googled it. Or is that what constitutes as a specialist
------- DAMIT i can not get my own words out of this quote box
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 13 January 2019, 09:32:34 pm
This is all getting a bit too civilised for my liking.....Where's my stick.....time to do some cage rattling.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 January 2019, 09:40:33 pm
Quote
I just googled how many people in the uk believes in aliens and it is also 52% (u-gov)
 Your above figures only add up to 93% does that mean that perhaps the missing 7% have been abducted by the aliens that the 52% believe in ( :lol ) smiley for mtread


Let me see if I can help;


Leave – 41%
REMAIN – 52%
Don’t know – 7%




:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 January 2019, 10:17:00 pm
Quote
but no one other than a rabid remainer  would thought   that I was seriously going to open a yellow vest shop 

I had no doubt whatsoever you were going to open a yellow vest shop. If only I'd been wearing one when that dog bit me  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 14 January 2019, 04:13:12 am
Quote
I'm sure it was not general comment about the majority of Muslims,
But it seems to be perfectly OK on this forum to repeatedly insinuate just that.  Not only that but praise for those who intimidate ethnic minorities goes largely unchallenged.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Flooky on 14 January 2019, 10:36:11 am
Quote
I try to stay out of politics but I am really worried about Brexit not going ahead.(for whatever reason)
Whereas a great many people are seriously worried that BREXIT may actually happen one day.  That is whatever BRXIT is.
Quote
The UK is a democracy and people who voted to stay or leave should all agree that the vote should be honoured.
The UK is a representative democracy.  We elect people to govern in our best interest and take decisions on our behalf. 



Further there are four countries in the UK.  We are a sovereign union.  2 out of the 4 countreis in this union voted to REMAIN.
Quote
If it isn't then the whole system comes crashing down, and I think it will kick off big time. (maybe rightly so ).
Whereas as what we are actually seeing is a representative democracy acting as it should.  MP’s are ignoring their party whips and acting in the best interests of their constituents. :)









As someone who has an obvious passion for politics, you should be more worried than most if the will of the people is not followed. What happens next time ? best of three ? people don't vote ? (whats the point ). just because the result doesn't suit doesn't mean its to be ignored. We should all hope this goes through cos if it doesn't its the sort of thing that causes massive unrest.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 January 2019, 11:16:05 am
Emergency Cabinet meeting today in advance of tomorrow's vote.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 January 2019, 01:16:36 pm
 
Quote
just because the result doesn't suit doesn't mean its to be ignored. We should all hope this goes through cos if it doesn't its the sort of thing that causes massive unrest.

Flooky.  I don’t think we should ever loose sight of why this referendum occurred.   It was offered to the country by the Tory party as a means to unite it’s MP’s in order to win an election.  They decided to gamble our membership of the EU in order to win an election.  They won the election, but gamble has exploded.


You say you hope this goes through.  But then what exactly is going to go through?  With just a few weeks to go nobody yet knows what BREXIT is.


Again,you say we should all hope this goes through, whatever that is.  But do you really think people in Scotland and Northern Ireland who voted to REMAIN all want this to go through? 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 January 2019, 01:48:21 pm
 Meanwhile I’m getting a little pissed off at people both admiring Theresa May and feeling sorry for her.  Apparently, the majority of the house, if we are to believe the popular media, is doing everything it can to wreck her plans and give her a hard time for the sake of it.
 
So, lets look at the reality of the situation.  She jumped at the chance of becoming PM, knowing full well it was a poisoned chalice.  Though then again, you could argue she was making a sacrifice to save us from Boris Johnston or Jacob Rees Mogg, and as much as I dislike May, anything is better than Boris – surely?


Having become PM, it didn’t take her too long to realise the challenge she had accepted was simply impossible.  With rebels in her ranks, her 12 seat majority was simply way too thin.


With Corbyn now at the helm of the Labour party, and with the popular media tearing him to shreds on a daily basis along with his less than confident performances in the house May saw a chance to solve all her problems.  With absolute certainty that Corbyn’s Labour would be wiped out at the polls she called a snap general election and waited to see how massive her majority would be after polling day.  With a massive majority she could easily negotiate a deal with the EU and vote it straight through parliament.  But we all know what happened next.


So now with no majority, but having managed a confidence and supply deal with the DUP – basically she bought their support with our cash – May now found herself further isolated in terms of BREXIT.


So, what did May do now.  Did she reach out to parliament?  Did she consider putting together a cross party BREXIT committee or other consultative means to try and find a way to negotiate a deal that would satisfy the house.  Nope.  She fell back on a 1539 law that allowed the Tudor Monarch to govern by proclamation.  May intended to bypass parliament and in doing so our whole democratic process in order to dictate BREXIT.


So, she’s made her bed, and now she has to lie in it.  I do not feel sorry for her one wee bit.


I may to some degree admire her strength and determination, but that strength and determination is also her greatest weakness.  She is a woman incapable of team work, a woman who cannot build bridges, seek consensus or compromise.  She was in fact always the wrong person for the job, and even in the best of times would struggle to operate as a successful PM.


This is May’s catastrophe.  And having endured an incompetent PM for the last couple of years or so parliament is left with the responsibility to clean up her mess.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Flooky on 14 January 2019, 05:23:02 pm
Quote
just because the result doesn't suit doesn't mean its to be ignored. We should all hope this goes through cos if it doesn't its the sort of thing that causes massive unrest.

Flooky.  I don’t think we should ever loose sight of why this referendum occurred.   It was offered to the country by the Tory party as a means to unite it’s MP’s in order to win an election.  They decided to gamble our membership of the EU in order to win an election.  They won the election, but gamble has exploded.


You say you hope this goes through.  But then what exactly is going to go through?  With just a few weeks to go nobody yet knows what BREXIT is.


Again,you say we should all hope this goes through, whatever that is.  But do you really think people in Scotland and Northern Ireland who voted to REMAIN all want this to go through?





Why we had the vote is immaterial, it happened, it was democratic and it was close but it must be honoured, what Scotland and northern Island think is also not a valid reason to not honour the vote. It is a different argument whether they should have their own say or not, as it stands the UK voted to leave the EU. If it doesn't happen a massive change in our way of life has occurred. Leaving the EU will be bumpy , but we and they will get over it. A government ignoring the will of the people we will not get over. I love bikes which is why I am on this forum so I will leave politics alone now, If I don't reply any more I am not being rude, just wanna read about bikes. xx
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 January 2019, 07:10:01 pm
 Flooky, how we came to have this referendum is of course important.  It was offered with no thought given, whatsoever, to the consequences should the UK as a whole vote to leave the EU.  It was reckless behaviour on the part of the Tory party in order to win an election.
Quote
what Scotland and northern Island think is also not a valid reason to not honour the vote
Indeed, and that is how a great many of us feel in Scotland and Northern Ireland.  As you say we don’t count, our view and our future is of no interest to Tory politicians at Westminster.  Democracy is for the English, not the Scots or Irish.
Quote
Leaving the EU will be bumpy , but we and they will get over it.
Indeed it will.  Whatever leaving actually means - and indeed if we ever do.  It will not effect those who offered us the referendum, putting party before country in doing so, nor will it effect those negotiating the deal – that if, again, there ever is a deal.  However, if we leave it will be ordinary punters like you and I that pay the price.


Even as things stand the UK is heading for a recession, BREXIT or no BREXIT.  Businesses are spending millions on contingency plans to avoid the chaos of a no deal – money that could be invested in their companies.  Inward investment has ground to a halt and day after day businesses announce job losses as the economic consequences if this whole mess continue to bite.  Retail spending is falling as people loose confidence in our future.

 
Quote
I love bikes which is why I am on this forum so I will leave politics alone now, If I don't reply any more I am not being rude, just wanna read about bikes. Xx

Can’t argue with that Flooky.    :kiss :eek
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 14 January 2019, 07:33:05 pm
If democracy was only for the English we would have been given a referendum for an independent England.  The same as the Scottish people had in which the majority of you voted against independence
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 January 2019, 09:13:54 pm
Quote
If democracy was only for the English we would have been given a referendum for an independent England.
That rather makes my point.  People were not screaming out for a referendum on the EU.  You are right to suggest it was given to us, as indeed it was.
However, one would expect to ask for a referendum, as opposed to be given something that was never requested.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 January 2019, 10:10:51 pm

People were not screaming out for a referendum on the EU. 


I was.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 14 January 2019, 10:19:10 pm

People were not screaming out for a referendum on the EU. 


I was.

ditto. I think the one thing that has come out of this thread is that nobody has changed their minds. leavers still want out. remainers still want in. it doesn't matter about facts or figures on either side. I'll never change my mind, and nor will remainers. I think the remain camp will win, and I will see the death of democracy in the uk in my lifetime. That will be a very sad day.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 January 2019, 10:54:59 pm
Quote

    People were not screaming out for a referendum on the EU.
 
 
 
I was.

Would be interested to know what you did to try get a referendum.


While there were many people campaigning for a referendum, it wasn’t exactly a mass movement.   For those who cared in the general population few got past having a moan about it over a pint in the pub.



Indeed polls showed that most people had far more pressing concerns than leaving the EU. 
2011 Channel 4 news fact check - https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-do-people-care-for-an-eu-referendum (https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-do-people-care-for-an-eu-referendum)
Quote
The verdict
 
When pushed, 67 per cent of those polled by YouGov last month said they would rather have a referendum on Britain’s EU membership than not.
 
But they had to be pushed – because actually, they don’t really care. Take a closer look at the latest polls, and what you see is that a massive 97 per cent don’t consider the EU a big issue right now.
So, yup it always was, and always will be about the Tory party.

Quote
it doesn't matter about facts or figures on either side.
For me that’s what always counts.  I am certainly not in Michael Gove’s camp “I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts


When the vast majority of economists are in agreement, and they are all stating clearly that leaving the EU will have a major negative impact on our economy, well I tend to pay attention.


Not to mention that 60 odd pages in, the foc u BREXITEERS, still really don’t have a clue why they want to leave – they just want to leave. :eek
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 January 2019, 12:01:48 am
Woman seriously considers ringing in sick tomorrow  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 January 2019, 12:22:55 am
Quote
I think the remain camp will win,
For what it's worth Ogri, I think we've all already lost.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 08:04:56 am

Quote

    People were not screaming out for a referendum on the EU.
 
 
 
I was.

Would be interested to know what you did to try get a referendum.



I bet you would  ;) . I'm not telling you. You're just after tips on how to force a second one ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 15 January 2019, 08:17:00 am
I don't like to agree with VNA but I agree on his last post. The whole British people have lost democracy, parliament was given an instruction by the people, whether it was the right instruction is open to debate what ever happens whether we stay in or leave we will only ever be able to speculate what might have been if we had gone the other way. Parliament has chosen to ignore the will of the people they are supposed to represent and engineer a way to get what they want in stead of preparing the country to carry out the will of the people. Our last civil war was between the people and a dictator king, lets hope the next one is not between Parliament and the people.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 January 2019, 08:46:54 am
Quote
I don't like to agree with VNA but I agree on his last post. The whole British people have lost democracy, parliament was given an instruction by the people, whether it was the right instruction is open to debate what ever happens whether we stay in or leave we will only ever be able to speculate what might have been if we had gone the other way. Parliament has chosen to ignore the will of the people they are supposed to represent and engineer a way to get what they want in stead of preparing the country to carry out the will of the people. Our last civil war was between the people and a dictator king, lets hope the next one is not between Parliament and the people.
I totally disagree with you Steve. :lol


We have an economy that should be fully recovered from the financial crises of ten years ago, an economy that should right now be in rude health, but the signs are that the UK is heading for recession, and that is no matter what happens today or at the end of the day with BREXIT.  BREXIT has strangled our economy, it’s also sucked all the political energy out of this country.  There are major issues that need to be addressed, first and foremost our economy which is stalling, austerity, pay and conditions, our NHS, our tax regime etc etc.  None of these issues is getting the attention they deserve because of BREXIT.  That is what I mean when I say we are all losers in this.


Aside from this being a situation that should never have been allowed to occur, and that frankly few were particularly interested in a few years ago, well as the referendum did take place and considering the results – well whose mess is this?


This as I stated clearly in my post #1520 is Theresa May’s mess.  She’s behaved as if she alone should decide, literally tried to dictate and as a result has lost the house.


So, thank goodness that democracy appears to be alive and well at Westminster.  Or, at least we will find out today.  Parliament needs to vote this wretched deal down and take back control.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 15 January 2019, 09:50:51 am
https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49947237_2279789148698264_2068036665808519168_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeEmZ2WDyFHJcjSwGCciCsvlVGBNMur35ashK7516xKwibMnkOEsE3vJTBDGTO7P5p4A-v7r5ZEviB9V4rGzZMgfvMaE2utO7v-oRtY2f1WoLw&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=52a596943653a48052bebdfb6c71e161&oe=5CC84B52
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 09:52:55 am


Waiting for the 700,000 Leave supporters to protest in Trafalgar Square....


If Leave get cheated out of Brexit I comfortably predict you could quadruple that figure ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 January 2019, 10:12:30 am
Hang on a minute.
May is trying to deliver what the people voted for.
Corbyn has said he'll deliver what the people voted for.
What's the problem?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 11:18:22 am
We'll find out around 9pm this evening....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 January 2019, 01:09:48 pm
Possibly....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 January 2019, 01:14:29 pm
Quote
Hang on a minute.
May is trying to deliver what the people voted for.
Corbyn has said he'll deliver what the people voted for.
What's the problem?

Well with both the government and the opposition trying to deliver the same thing.  Well what could possibly go wrong?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 January 2019, 01:31:03 pm
Boris Johnson's version of what people voted for :lol


Noticed in the news just now that Hillary Benn's motion against 'No Deal' has been withdrawn so that the government can't postpone the vote again. Blimey this is getting complicated  :lurk
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 15 January 2019, 03:09:47 pm
People were not screaming out for a referendum on the EU.  You are right to suggest it was given to us, as indeed it was.
However, one would expect to ask for a referendum, as opposed to be given something that was never requested.

People did ask for it in the 2015 general election by giving 4 million votes (12.6 per cent of those cast)to UKIP  Its so boring to keep repeating the "it was all about the Tories" line. It wasn't, people have been - as you say yourself "moaning over their beer" for years and 7 out of 10 labour held areas also voted to leave the eu
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 15 January 2019, 03:31:57 pm

The more of this of Brexit or no Brexit  waffle and bull sh*t ilisten to from our MPs of all parties the more I think there was never any intention by most of them to allow us to leave the EU it's been one almighty stitch from even before the referendum I can't think of one MP I would/could trust now from any party. I am totally disgusted that 2 years down the line we are still up to the neck in crap and all the MPs can do is play party politics and score points off each other they should all be totally ashamed of the way they have behaved.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 January 2019, 04:01:06 pm
Quote
people did ask for it in the 2015 general election by giving 4 million votes (12.6 per cent of those cast)to UKIP
But that's missing the point. 87.4% obviously thought there were more important things to worry about. The fact is that the (Tory) government tabled the motion for a referendum. They did this to resolve the split in their own party once and for all. As we can see today, it has widened the split instead.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 04:31:53 pm
Just watching the news live from the green outside Parliament. The democracy haters (Remain) are constantly striking a bell and banging a drum :z . What on earth difference does that achieve apart from irritataing the hell out of every normal (Leave) person?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 04:35:23 pm
The democracy haters (Remain)
...just to clarify, if they'd won the referendum then it'd be perfectly democratic :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 04:44:15 pm
Just watching the news live from the green outside Parliament. The democracy haters (Remain) are constantly striking a bell and banging a drum :z . What on earth difference does that achieve apart from irritataing the hell out of every normal (Leave) person?
Oops apparently it's Leave creating the racket :o . Still wants stopping. Incredibly irritating. They say the din has been going on all day long.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 15 January 2019, 05:24:41 pm
I was wondering who it was and for why ?I get the flags, I get the chanting but the bell is just irritating, I am actually surprised their fellow leavers don't yank it out of their hands and crack them over the head with it.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 06:06:40 pm
It reminds me of that England Supporters Band that used to play The Great Escape theme tune over & over & over & over & over again at the international football matches :'(
My worst nightmare would be getting stuck next to that racket for 90 minutes.
It gets my goat when anyone over-dominates situations like this.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 January 2019, 06:23:40 pm
Quote
all the MPs can do is play party politics
That's one thing they most certainly are not doing :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 15 January 2019, 07:16:15 pm
looking at the people at college green how come there has not been any fisty-cufts between the ins and outs. A bit different to when the far right and the far left share the same square mile
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 January 2019, 07:40:47 pm
It's absolutely truely sunk :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 07:54:29 pm

There's no denying that. The stitch up is in motion. The first step towards disregarding democracy and reversing the democratic decision.


I thought that would please you ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 January 2019, 08:32:23 pm
Quote
There's no denying that. The stitch up is in motion. The first step towards disregarding democracy and reversing the democratic decision.


I thought that would please you ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url])

It's democracy in action.  This is a PM that called a snap election in order to win a landslide so she could impose her will - but she failed.

This is a PM that called upon Tudor Laws to by-pass parliament in order to impose her will - but she failed.

This is a PM who has spent 2 years putting together a deal she knew nobody wanted, then tried to force it upon parliament by trying to drive it into march and up against a NO DEAL BREXIT - but she failed.

This is a dead duck PM.

 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 January 2019, 08:37:37 pm
Well there we have it. Just about the biggest loss in history.
Watching the post vote interviews, both hard Brexit and soft Brexit sides claiming victory.
I'm surprised May hasn't delayed Article 50 yet. She's gambling again. I'm still betting on a Norway style Leave, full Customs Union and most Single Market. Tory Remainers + Labour with their Red Lines getting a majority ....... in which case, we should Remain  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 15 January 2019, 08:38:20 pm
 
The amount that it was voted down by is a good thing because the EU will see that and realise that they HAVE to renegotiate - otherwise the default, written in law will be a leave on WTO which they fear more than anything.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 08:42:08 pm
An important point regarding a second referendum, which is where I'm certain we are heading.
 It puts Leave at a disadvantage because having already had their vote disregarded once, apathy will have set in and a 'Why bother when they just ignore us and stitch us up?' attitude prevails. Even if Leave won a second vote, who's to say that one wouldn't be ignored?.

Remain will have been given basically 'A free second spin' and will grasp it with gusto.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 15 January 2019, 08:45:38 pm
Just like my honourable oriental friend on his honeymoon, now is the time for an election.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 08:51:13 pm

The amount that it was voted down by is a good thing because the EU will see that and realise that they HAVE to renegotiate - otherwise the default, written in law will be a leave on WTO which they fear more than anything.

I don't think they'll concede anything much. I reckon they will be happy to see it go to a second referendum and take their chances with that.
I wish it was No Deal, but apparently they won't even entertain that. Parliament has basically wasted the voting publics time for 2 years. Why bother involving us in the first place if our vote is going to be totally disregarded >:
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 January 2019, 08:53:35 pm
Quote
An important point regarding a second referendum, which is where I'm certain we are heading.
 It puts Leave at a disadvantage because having already had their vote disregarded once, apathy will have set in and a 'Why bother when they just ignore us and stitch us up?' attitude prevails. Even if Leave won a second vote, who's to say that one wouldn't be ignored?.

Remain will have been given basically 'A free second spin' and will grasp it with gusto.
No idea if there will be a second referendum or not.  It's certainly more likely now than May's deal. :lol
But as I have said again and again, if, and if, I say again if, there is second referendum it must be legally binding.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 January 2019, 08:58:20 pm
 
Quote
I reckon they will be happy to see it go to a second referendum and take their chances with that.
They (the EU) are not taking a chance with anything.  If we were to leave with NO DEAL (which will not happen) the EU will take a small hit, but we will get fucked. 



They are 27 countries that will continue to trade as a single market without us.  We were just one out of 28.


This is our problem, not theirs.  Not much they can do if the UK appears to be aff it’s heid on crack.   :eek :lol



But NO DEAL is officially dead tonight. :)

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 January 2019, 10:11:49 pm
Quote
Parliament has basically wasted the voting publics time for 2 years.
No, Parliament has only now been consulted. May and her government has wasted the public's time for 2 and a half years. The obstinate woman could have consulted Parliament and the opposition parties a long time ago.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 January 2019, 10:30:56 pm
Quote
Quote<blockquote> Parliament has basically wasted the voting publics time for 2 years. </blockquote>No, Parliament has only now been consulted. May and her government has wasted the public's time for 2 and a half years. The obstinate woman could have consulted Parliament and the opposition parties a long time ago.
Indeed, she tried a snap election - that failed
She tried to by pass parliament by calling on some ancient Tudor laws - that failed too.
So she decided to press on alone, hoping to get her deal through by running us up against a potential NO DEAL - that failed too.
She is a failed PM. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 10:41:31 pm
To be fair, whatever side you're on you couldn't beat all this for drama could you!. To people who couldn't care less it probably means nothing, but to those of us who are interested it's the equivalent of Den and Angie at Christmas 1986 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 15 January 2019, 10:42:30 pm

To be fair, whatever side you're on you couldn't beat all this for drama could you!. To people who couldn't care less it probably means nothing, but to those of us who are interested it's the equivalent of Den and Angie at Christmas 1986 :lol



Agreed, what a fucking waste of time. So now it looks like it's back to the polls again until we vote to remain in the EU. Railroaded just like Denmark and the Republic of Ireland to vote how they want us to.
Lets face it we can't fucking leave this undemocratic behemoth of a quango. Well fellow sheeple, it seems here is no democracy it's all an illusion. The raving monster loony party policy to decimalise time makes more sense to me at the moment than anything coming out of Westminster or the EU for that matter.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 January 2019, 11:09:34 pm
Quote
The raving monster loony party policy to decimalise time makes more sense to me
Already been done. The French in 1793 :)
Yes it's all quite a drama, but I'm thinking more Basil and Sybil than Den and Angie
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 January 2019, 11:55:11 pm

Quote
Parliament has basically wasted the voting publics time for 2 years.
No, Parliament has only now been consulted. May and her government has wasted the public's time for 2 and a half years. The obstinate woman could have consulted Parliament and the opposition parties a long time ago.


Parliament agreed to give the electorate a vote and to implement Article 50.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 12:10:48 am
Quote
Parliament agreed to give the electorate a vote and to implement Article 50.
Very true, but it's been all down to May since then.


Actually I've decided it's more Rene and Edith - '' You stupid woman'' and the French and Germans are all laughing at her.


She's backed herself into a corner. If she comes back with a similar deal, she will lose the vote again. Perhaps by a smaller margin, but she will lose.
If she goes for a harder Brexit she'll lose half her party.
If she goes for a softer Brexit she'll lose the other half.
If she does nothing and goes for No Deal, Parliament will take over and a majority will veto it and extend Article 50.


There is nothing she can do. Corbyn currently holds all the best cards.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 January 2019, 08:34:12 am


No idea if there will be a second referendum or not.  It's certainly more likely now than May's deal. :lol
But as I have said again and again, if, and if, I say again if, there is second referendum it must be legally binding.


I've no doubt it will be....if the answers Remain.


How's The Eagle's lyric go?..."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave".... :guitar
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Oldgit on 16 January 2019, 10:19:18 am
May to stand down, R Mogg for PM--now that would set the cat among the pigeons.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 10:35:48 am
Quote
How's The Eagle's lyric go?..."You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave"...
You're spot on. It also covers May's obstinacy.
'' They stab it with their steely knives, But they just can't kill the beast''
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 11:26:48 am
Quote
I've no doubt it will be....if the answers Remain.
Legally binding means just that.  Whatever the result is it has to be implemented.


Naturally some folks will ask why was the 2016 not legally binding.  The simple answer to that is that to be legally binding the result has to be defined.  And that was the big problem with the 2016 referendum, BREXIT was not defined.  So the 2016 refenedum was a simple consultative ballot. 



So that means if there is a second referendum it has to be a very specific question.


Which in turn is where the problem lies.  It will be a nightmare defining the question.  I’m not sure it can be done as it has to be agreed by parliament.



I would argue the following;


May’s deal is officially the only deal on offer.  It’s a withdrawal deal, with our settled position to be negotiated over the next few years.  It’s been agreed by the government and ratified with the 27 remaining EU states.  It is defined and can be implemented.
Therefore;


Do you wish implement the governments withdrawal act and LEAVE the EU.



Or


Do you wish to cancel article 50 and REMAIN in the EU.


That would allow a legally binding referendum to take place.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 January 2019, 11:43:51 am

So we were lied to in 2016?.


That leaflet said...'This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide'.


It didn't say....'The government will implement what you decide....as long as it can be defined' :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 11:59:22 am
Quote
So we were lied to in 2016?.


That leaflet said...'This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide'.


It didn't say....'The government will implement what you decide....as long as it can be defined' ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url])

 Well you have been used.  As I keep saying this only occurred as a means to unite the Tory party in order to win an election.  And DC never thought for one minute that people would actually be daft enough to vote to leave the EU.  But then he’s a millionaire living in the Westminster bubble.  He has no idea whatsoever how tough life is for millions in this country and how disenfranchised they feel.
 
But no you were not lied to.  And May’s government, as hopeless as it is, has spent 2 years getting a withdrawal agreement together and tried every trick in the book to try and implement it.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 12:04:30 pm
Well at least if there is another referendum I can look forward to there being another leaflet drop because my downpipes need re doing.
 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=19879.0;attach=24135;image)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 12:19:16 pm
Quote
Well at least if there is another referendum I can look forward to there being another leaflet drop because my downpipes need re doing.


Aye, well, and if you are a good boy and engage yer brain you’ll vote to cancel article 50. ;)


That way everybody will keep their jobs.  The pound will strengthen, inflation will fall, and you’ll be able to forget about painting yer downpipes as you’ll have your new bike as a result of falling new motorcycle prices. :D
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 12:27:38 pm
The pound will strengthen
On that point, all day yesterday the "City experts" were saying that if Mays deal is voted down then the pound will drop. --- IT went UP  :wall
The state of the pound has nothing to do with anything other than a bunch of frightened gambling children who either way (up or down ) will ensure that they will have trousered cash.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 12:34:42 pm
VNA You like to say that the people who voted to leave were just kicking the politicians. After witnessing the last 2 years of their shenanigans then surely those who voted to leave are not about to change their minds but instead to just kick harder.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 12:40:56 pm
 
Quote
On that point, all day yesterday the "City experts" were saying that if Mays deal is voted down then the pound will drop. --- IT went UP  :wall

Tis a very fluid situation Mr Sharp.  The city experts were probably figuring on a narrower defeat, with May coming back for a second vote.  That would then take us closer to a NO DEAL scenario.
 
But the deal hasn’t just been fairly strongly rejected, it’s been annihilated, completely and utterly blitzed.  I can’t see May coming back for a second vote, not without some sort of significant change.
 
Still anything could happen, but the general feeling has to be we are heading towards a much softer BREXIT.  That can only reassure the markets.


And the value of the pound is one indicator of the overall health of our economy.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 12:47:22 pm
 
Quote
VNA You like to say that the people who voted to leave were just kicking the politicians. After witnessing the last 2 years of their shenanigans then surely those who voted to leave are not about to change their minds but instead to just kick harder.

But this was the wrong ball to kick.  It is not the EU that has shafted us and made so many poorer, it is our own successive right wing governments.


If we exit the EU without a DEAL, there will be an economic price to pay.  And just as with the financial crises just over ten years ago it will not be the May’s, Johnston’s, Moggs etc that will pay the price, it will be us.


Don’t forget that of the very few economists in favour of a hard BREXIT, though they claim a financial benefit for the UK, they are quite clear that it will also mean increasingly wage inequality and the virtual end of UK manufacturing.



 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 12:50:29 pm
Quote
On that point, all day yesterday the "City experts" were saying that if Mays deal is voted down then the pound will drop. --- IT went UP  :wall

Tis a very fluid situation Mr Sharp.  The city experts were probably figuring on a narrower defeat, with May coming back for a second vote.  That would then take us closer to a NO DEAL scenario.
 
But the deal hasn’t just been fairly strongly rejected, it’s been annihilated, completely and utterly blitzed.  I can’t see May coming back for a second vote, not without some sort of significant change.
 
Still anything could happen, but the general feeling has to be we are heading towards a much softer BREXIT.  That can only reassure the markets.


And the value of the pound is one indicator of the overall health of our economy.
 
Quote
The city experts were probably figuring on a narrower defeat
Like I said "Gambling"
Quote
That can only reassure the markets.
Like I said "frightened children"
Quote
And the value of the pound is one indicator of the overall health of our economy.
No it isn't - the value of the pound is an overall indicator of the gambling of a select few crooked city children. 

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 12:51:28 pm
 :eek :eek :eek I have just heard Soubery spell out C.U.N.T in PMQ's  :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes That has got to look fantastic with the subtitles on

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 12:54:36 pm
 Like I say this absolutely unprecedented.  Nothing like this has ever happened before.  Nobody can be sure of what happens next.
 
But the priority has to be to find a way out and in a timely manner.  Already the signs are there that the UK is heading towards recession as a result of continued uncertainty, such uncertainty that is not just showing in industry and the markets but that can now be clearly seen in retail spending. 
 
So,
 
NO DEAL must be avoided at all costs. 



May’s deal is not an option as it is simply a withdrawal agreement – it means many more years of BREXIT debate and negotiation.  That would be a disaster.


Increasingly Mtread looks as if he is on the money.  An off the shelf Norway deal is still on the table.


Though the best deal will always be the deal we have right now.  At least a Norway deal takes us out of EU politics – which should satisfy the BREXITEERS – but allows our businesses to continue to trade with the whole EU market with little or no change.


Though beware that polls in Scotland are now running at 70% plus to REMAIN in the EU.  This could still be the end of the UK.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 January 2019, 01:40:05 pm
Does 'Norway Deal' involve retaining freedom of movement?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 January 2019, 01:40:36 pm

:eek :eek :eek I have just heard Soubery spell out C.U.N.T in PMQ's  :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes That has got to look fantastic with the subtitles on


Context?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 01:54:09 pm

:eek :eek :eek I have just heard Soubery spell out C.U.N.T in PMQ's  :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes That has got to look fantastic with the subtitles on


Context?
She once again was moaning that one of her staff was barracked on entering parliment and there were no police there.
She said He was called a useless - and then she spelt it out as C.U.N.T..

I think it was "useless" that she said
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: robbo on 16 January 2019, 02:20:37 pm
Does 'Norway Deal' involve retaining freedom of movement?.
Yep, Norway deal does include freedom of movement, so that's a non-starter.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 02:37:44 pm
Quote
<blockquote>Does 'Norway Deal' involve retaining freedom of movement?.
</blockquote>Yep, Norway deal does include freedom of movement, so that's a non-starter.
I’d have to check the agreement.
But in any case, as I have explained numerous times ‘freedom of movement’ was and is a non-issue.
All EU citizens (ie us) have the right to live in any EU member state – however the following conditions apply;


 1.       You must have a job in that country.
2.       Or you must be able to demonstrate that you have a job lined up.
3.       Or you must be able to demonstrate you have the means to support yourself.


 
 

If after 3 months you have failed to obtain employment that will enable you to support yourself, or you are unable to support yourself without employment you can be removed and returned to your own nation state.



That freedowm of movement is an issue is just another BREXITEER lie.
   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 03:57:56 pm
Quote
Well at least if there is another referendum I can look forward to there being another leaflet drop because my downpipes need re doing.
That looks suspiciously like an EU flag under your bike. Have you had a few too many sherbets again?  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 04:29:37 pm
Quote
Well at least if there is another referendum I can look forward to there being another leaflet drop because my downpipes need re doing.
That looks suspiciously like an EU flag under your bike. Have you had a few too many sherbets again?  ;)
the truth is even more bizarre. its a Winnie the poo duvet cover
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 January 2019, 04:32:09 pm
If it were EU it'd simply be a poo duvet cover :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 04:37:05 pm
Quote
Does 'Norway Deal' involve retaining freedom of movement?.
Yes but you have to movement around very quickly. It's cold in Norway  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 05:31:08 pm
Hopefully the next thing we will see happen is a move by pariament to remove the threat of a NO DEAL BREXIT.That means legislation to gurantee there cannot be a NO DEAL exit.That should give some reassurance to industry.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 05:31:29 pm
If it were EU it'd simply be a poo duvet cover :lol
After brexit will we still be able to get duvets - they are a French thing aren't they ? Or will I have to pay a sleep a tariff. I will have to make do with the English version - an eiderdown. Or plenty of blankets and a bicycle frame  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 05:33:48 pm
Hopefully the next thing we will see happen is a move by pariament to remove the threat of a NO DEAL BREXIT.That means legislation to gurantee there cannot be a NO DEAL exit.That should give some reassurance to industry.

But that is the only thing we have left with to threaten the EU with.After May promised them all the money (for nothing )on day 1
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 06:54:22 pm
When will people get it. The EU doesn't care about No Deal.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 07:00:03 pm
Quote
But that is the only thing we have left with to threaten the EU with.
Which loosely translates into - give us what we want or we'll jump :lol
Yeah that'll work :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 07:07:27 pm
Quote
But that is the only thing we have left with to threaten the EU with.
Which loosely translates into - give us what we want or we'll jump :lol
Yeah that'll work :eek
Nah I see it more like this ---
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 16 January 2019, 07:12:03 pm
the eu don't care if it doesn't get its 39 billion? I think it might...… :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 January 2019, 07:32:04 pm

Of course The EU are gutted that UK might leave (I say might because I'm still convinced we're gonna get totally stitched up yet).


They're not going to show it, that's why they're acting all blase and nonchalant about it. It's all bluff. They are crying themselves to sleep at night thinking about all that cash they've had out of us over the years.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 January 2019, 07:40:27 pm

May wins confidence vote by majority of 19, but it's the Labour Party who are going to control this situation from now on. Good job their leader is a eurosceptic :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 07:55:15 pm
He's just said he'll negotiate if she takes No Deal off the table  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 08:00:53 pm
Quote
But that is the only thing we have left with to threaten the EU with.

Which loosely translates into - give us what we want or we'll jump 
Yeah that'll work 
</blockquote>

Nah I see it more like this ---
Here's how you successfully jump  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 08:06:24 pm
DUP asks May for £100 billion as they show again they own her arse  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 08:19:44 pm
 
Quote
May wins confidence vote by majority of 19, but it's the Labour Party who are going to control this situation from now on. Good job their leader is a eurosceptic :)

Yes the right man at the wrong time. :'(   Really pissed off with Labour.  They should have opposed this every step of the way.  However at least Jeremey understands we cannot under any circumstances end up in a NO DEAL situation, and further also understands the importance of having a customs union.


However, we in Scotland are going to continue to push for full EU membership, and if necessary a second Independence Referendum in order that we can REMAIN as full members of the EU. :)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 08:27:25 pm
Corbyn makes it a condition in order to get May off the fence. So she has to pick which half of her party to go with. Lots of politicking going on here....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 08:46:39 pm
 
Quote
Corbyn makes it a condition in order to get May off the fence. So she has to pick which half of her party to go with. Lots of politicking going on here....

Considering the snooty nosed patronising arrogant way in which the Tories treated Corbyn when he first became leader, and not to mention May’s disgusting spiteful and spineless personal attack on him today, well;

 
Yeah, there is some satisfaction in sitting back and watching Corbyn coolly and calmly start taking the Tory Government apart.  And great pleasure in watching them squirm and take their medicine.
 
I might be right pissed off with Labour, but that is nothing compared to my life long intense dislike of the scum bag Tories.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 08:51:21 pm

:eek :eek :eek I have just heard Soubery spell out C.U.N.T in PMQ's  :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes That has got to look fantastic with the subtitles on



Context?
Here it is as I don't think you will see it on the BBC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DgJMKrJ3j4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DgJMKrJ3j4)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 16 January 2019, 08:59:50 pm
He's just said he'll negotiate if she takes No Deal off the table  :)

all the more reason not too...
if she takes no deal off the table the eu will know they can call the shots, much like they knew when camoron went over there to "re negotiate", having told them he'd already surrendered..
can I ask the remainers this. You've seen how much the eu despise us, they have made no effort whatsoever to disguise their contempt, which is absolutely fine by me (much better to know where we stand dontcha think?)
if you get your way, get another referendum, and win...How on earth do you think they will treat us from this point on, having crawled back to them. I mean, seriously..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 16 January 2019, 09:30:31 pm
No deal HAS to remain on the table. Germany is in the brink of recession - the possibility of a no deal may just persuade them to renegotiate.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 09:45:33 pm
Quote
can I ask the remainers this. You've seen how much the eu despise us, they have made no effort whatsoever to disguise their contempt, which is absolutely fine by me (much better to know where we stand dontcha think?)
What on earth makes you think the EU despise us?


I don't follow that at all.  It's the UK that's acting as complete and utter (and if I may borrow a word that fazersharp seems to love) cunts towards them.

I mean we have spent over 40 years working with the EU and making the EU what it is today. Only for no apparent reason to loose the plot and threaten to tear up everything we have worked together for for the last 40 years.

I cannot for the life of me understand the shear stupidity of many in England.  And this is an English mess.

The UK is now not just the lauthing stock of the EU, but round the world nations are gobsmacked and stunned at our utter and shear stupidity. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 16 January 2019, 10:54:42 pm
well, thats not the first time ive been called a stupid cunt (albeit a bit around the houses) and I doubt its the last. hey ho..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 January 2019, 11:02:06 pm
Quote
well, thats not the first time ive been called a stupid cunt (albeit a bit around the houses) and I doubt its the last. hey ho..
Not at all.  I am not calling you a cunt :eek   I do though feel the UK has acted dreadfully towards the EU.
But yes in my opinion BREXIT is absolutely bonkers.  It's collective madness.  Our problems stem from our own sucessive governments not the actions of the EU.
I am impressed, on the other hand, how united the EU is, 27 countreis standing together.  And despite our dreadful behaviour towards them, they continue to hold the door open to us.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 11:19:07 pm
Quote
No deal HAS to remain on the table. Germany is in the brink of recession - the possibility of a no deal may just persuade them to renegotiate.

But it won't. They've said so. That sort of brinkmanship won't work. All of the EU member states have come out today as united. Anyway, what is it exactly that you want the EU to renegotiate? A while ago on here it was all about 'No Deal' in which case there is nothing to negotiate. The EU would allow that, but of course Parliament won't :lol

May seems to be saying to the opposition parties, 'let's talk about my deal, under my conditions, so you can all agree with me'. She continues to be a stubborn woman under an illusion that she is in control. The problems and divisions are still within her own party and she is trying to hide it.

All to play for  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 January 2019, 11:55:53 pm
Quote
Here it is as I don't think you will see it on the BBC.
Excellent, good on her, except I see they have subtitled it 'Sea UNT' :lol
And to think it all started with the Sex Pistols saying 'Fuck' on TV in 1976
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 07:32:08 am

Corbyn's made himself look like a right idiot stomping his feet and refusing to go to Mrs May's house to play.


Even some of his own MP's are saying he's slipped up here. What a twat.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 17 January 2019, 08:32:05 am
Quote
well, thats not the first time ive been called a stupid cunt (albeit a bit around the houses) and I doubt its the last. hey ho..
Not at all.  I am not calling you a cunt :eek   I do though feel the UK has acted dreadfully towards the EU.
But yes in my opinion BREXIT is absolutely bonkers.  It's collective madness.  Our problems stem from our own sucessive governments not the actions of the EU.
I am impressed, on the other hand, how united the EU is, 27 countreis standing together.  And despite our dreadful behaviour towards them, they continue to hold the door open to us.


"...in my opinion..."


....which of course you are totally entitled to, just like everyone else, but that's all it is, it does not make you right (or wrong).


I'm still of the opinion that politicians are all lying underhand bastards, and although i don't take enough notice to like or dislike May, i do know that i really dislike Corbyn, Abbott, & their band of useless wankers.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 08:52:44 am

She continues to be a stubborn woman


And Corbyn's not being a stubborn man I suppose :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 January 2019, 10:30:10 am
Quote
And Corbyn's not being a stubborn man I suppose
Of course he is, but he is the official opposition. It's his job.
Anyway, May has enough problems with a divided cabinet. Gaulk says Customs Union option, Fox says not. Perhaps her first job should be to talk to them.
Hammond tells business leaders that No Deal will be taken off the table within days, yet May refuses to agree to rule it out.
SNP says this morning it won't discuss Brexit unless May considers 2nd Referendum.
Not looking good for May is it? :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 11:16:32 am
Corbin has fallen right into a trap here. He has been left looking like HE is the one being awkward. He triggers a no -confidence vote and wastes time there. He has constantly pointed at Mays "red lines" and then go's and sets his own.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 January 2019, 11:18:54 am
Now joined by SNP and Lib Dems who lay down conditions and won't talk either No trap  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 11:26:17 am
Now joined by SNP and Lib Dems who lay down conditions and won't talk either No trap  :)
Do they not realise the whole country is watching them and expects them to get together and sort this.
We need to lock them all in a big room (like a pope conclave ) and not let them out until they get together and sort it. The only ones we will let out are those who can not bring themselves to work with others and my leaving they leave their MP job and can never return.

I wonder how many "I am an MP get me out of here" we would see then.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 11:28:00 am
Just been listening to 'Remain live', sorry, 'Radio 5 live'. It's a job to tell who's the presenters and who's the callers :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 11:33:55 am
Just been listening to 'Remain live', sorry, 'Radio 5 live'. It's a job to tell who's the presenters and who's the callers :lol
I used to listen to that a lot but not done so for a long time I had a little listen the other day and OMG the PC and virtue signalling by the presenters is borderline funny
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 11:58:04 am

Now joined by SNP and Lib Dems who lay down conditions and won't talk either No trap  :)
Do they not realise the whole country is watching them and expects them to get together and sort this.
We need to lock them all in a big room (like a pope conclave ) and not let them out until they get together and sort it. The only ones we will let out are those who can not bring themselves to work with others and my leaving they leave their MP job and can never return.

I wonder how many "I am an MP get me out of here" we would see then.   


But they won't compromise. They're only idea of settling anything is to reverse democratic descions they don't agree with. They hate democracy when it throws up a result they don't like.


They will only settle for a second referendum. Then a third if they lose that one. Then a fourth.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 12:27:35 pm

Just been listening to 'Remain live', sorry, 'Radio 5 live'. It's a job to tell who's the presenters and who's the callers :lol
I used to listen to that a lot but not done so for a long time I had a little listen the other day and OMG the PC and virtue signalling by the presenters is borderline funny


I shall have to remove it from the station preset. A Remainer's, (surprise surprise), just been on lecturing about democracy. That's beyond farcical :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 January 2019, 12:33:16 pm
No they won't compromise..... by just doing what May tells them  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 01:01:55 pm
Quote
"...in my opinion..."
 
 
....which of course you are totally entitled to, just like everyone else, but that's all it is, it does not make you right (or wrong).

Except I’ve backed up my opinion with facts.


Not to mention we haven’t even done BREXIT yet and already the UK economy is showing signs of slipping into recession.  People are losing their jobs, the pound is down, inflation has increased.  Pretty much all the economists are agreed that whatever form of BREXIT the UK goes for (if it does BREXIT at all) it will impact negatively on our economy, with a NO DEAL BREXIT having a potentially devastating impact.


But so far nae foccer here has managed to come up with a solid reason for leaving or managed to name any real advantage in leaving.


What we’ve had from the BREXIT foccers is rhetoric and slogans and little else.  Plus, apparently all our BREXITEERS are happy to be worse off after BREXIT.  A price worth paying apparently.


So yeah well over 2 years past the referendum I’ve no idea why the foc anybody wants BREXIT.  And I’m sorry I don’t see that a damaged economy, job losses and price increases are a price worth paying for zero benefit.


So it appears to me that a great many people in England are into collective self-harm.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 01:39:42 pm

Quote
And Corbyn's not being a stubborn man I suppose
Of course he is, but he is the official opposition. It's his job.



His 'job' is to honour the Labour Party manifesto and see that Article 50 and the democratic will of the people is carried out.


At least Vince Cable and the Lib Dems were honest about it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 01:42:42 pm


Except I’ve backed up my opinion with facts.



 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 01:48:41 pm
Here's a fact...52% voted Leave, 48% voted Remain :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 January 2019, 01:58:56 pm
Quote
His 'job' is to honour the Labour Party manifesto and see that Article 50 and the democratic will of the people is carried out.
And he is. You are missing out the bit the bit in the manifesto that said we must join a Customs Union.


By the way, I'm expecting Cabinet resignations over the weekend  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 03:13:48 pm
Quote
Here's a fact...52% voted Leave, 48% voted Remain ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url])

But what sort of BREXIT did they vote for?
Here's another fact;
In Scotland everything single council areae voted to REMAIN. :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 03:14:29 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxHAKSwWsAAjQQ0.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 17 January 2019, 04:45:42 pm
Quote
Here's a fact...52% voted Leave, 48% voted Remain ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url])

But what sort of BREXIT did they vote for?
Here's another fact;
In Scotland everything single council areae voted to REMAIN. :D



Why can you not accept that there was a vote and, like it or not, that was the result?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Frosties on 17 January 2019, 05:09:52 pm
Love it....   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 05:24:14 pm
I’ve backed up my opinion with facts.
 inflation has increased.  price increases
 
Proof you talk crap.Here some real facts for you.
Here the ONS has just released the latest data
The UK inflation rate fell to 2.1% in December, from 2.3% the previous month, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).The Consumer Prices Index (CPI) figure was the lowest in nearly two years. Inflation is being outstripped by average UK pay growth
The figure is close to the Bank of England's target of 2% and may mean the Bank is less likely now to consider any rate rises in the near future.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 05:42:40 pm

Quote
Here's a fact...52% voted Leave, 48% voted Remain ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url])

But what sort of BREXIT did they vote for?
Here's another fact;
In Scotland everything single council areae voted to REMAIN. :D



Why can you not accept that there was a vote and, like it or not, that was the result?  :lol



Because they lost and they can't accept it that's why.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 05:45:39 pm

Quote
His 'job' is to honour the Labour Party manifesto and see that Article 50 and the democratic will of the people is carried out.
And he is. You are missing out the bit the bit in the manifesto that said we must join a Customs Union.



They're not in government!!. He can't can't have everything exactly his way or no way at all. He tried to shift her the other night and failed. Thank goodness. The last thing any of us need right now is a Marxist in number 10.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 January 2019, 05:56:06 pm
Can't have it both ways. He can't 'see that Article 50 and the democratic will of the people is carried out' if he's not in government :)
Marxists are Communists. He's a Socialist
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 06:02:32 pm
Can't have it both ways. He can't 'see that Article 50 and the democratic will of the people is carried out' if he's not in government :)
Marxists are Communists. He's a Socialist
There is only 1 Marxist on this forum  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 06:08:24 pm
 
Quote
The UK inflation rate fell to 2.1% in December, from 2.3% the previous month, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).The Consumer Prices Index (CPI) figure was the lowest in nearly two years. Inflation is being outstripped by average UK pay growth

 UK inflation just before the 2016 referendum was 0.5%
Quote
Proof you talk crap.Here some real facts for you.

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 06:09:24 pm
Quote
They're not in government!!.
But the government is not in government either :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 January 2019, 06:13:48 pm
Quote
The last thing any of us need right now is a Marxist in number 10.
After years of austerity, where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, what we need now is a Socialist in number 10  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 January 2019, 06:16:29 pm
Quote
There is only 1 Marxist on this forum 

Is that a confession?  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 06:18:28 pm
Quote
The UK inflation rate fell to 2.1% in December, from 2.3% the previous month, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).The Consumer Prices Index (CPI) figure was the lowest in nearly two years. Inflation is being outstripped by average UK pay growth

 UK inflation just before the 2016 referendum was 0.5%
Quote
Proof you talk crap.Here some real facts for you.

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
 
0.5% inflation is not a good thing for the economy which is why the BOE has 2% for its target and anything below or above then they are minded to do something about it.
Only a Marxist would welcome near to 0% inflation
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 06:23:16 pm
Can't have it both ways.
Do you mean like when you lose a referendum, but demand a re-run?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 06:25:53 pm
 
Quote
0.5% inflation is not a good thing for the economy which is why the BOE has 2% for its target and anything below or above then they are minded to do something about it.
 Only a Marxist would welcome near to 0% inflation

Wrong again.
The BOE target is to keep inflation below 2%. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 07:01:14 pm
Quote
0.5% inflation is not a good thing for the economy which is why the BOE has 2% for its target and anything below or above then they are minded to do something about it.
 Only a Marxist would welcome near to 0% inflation

Wrong again.
The BOE target is to keep inflation below 2%. 
 
Wrong again. Here from the mouth of the BOE --------
The Government has set us a target of keeping inflation at 2%
 So I am still correct about Both of my observations
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 07:36:27 pm

They just asked a Green Party spokesman...'If there's a second referendum and you lose again, would you accept the result?'. He replied 'Yes'.


 :lol :lol :rollin :lol :lol :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 07:40:45 pm
Quote
Here from the mouth of the BOE --------
Here's something else from the Bank of England;
    Bank of England says no-deal Brexit would be worse than 2008 crisis      Bank warns of immediate economic crash, GDP to fall by 8%, unemployment to rise to 7.5%
   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 07:42:50 pm
And this is interesting;
(https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/images/bs/financial-stability-report/2018/november/brexit-lines-v2.svg?h=652&w=1143&hash=0BE29568A398EC2855C465545F099AF374C7013A&hash=0BE29568A398EC2855C465545F099AF374C7013A&la=en)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 07:43:44 pm
Oh yes that's from the Bank of England too! :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 17 January 2019, 07:45:43 pm
Quote
And Corbyn's not being a stubborn man I suppose
Of course he is, but he is the official opposition. It's his job.
Anyway, May has enough problems with a divided cabinet. Gaulk says Customs Union option, Fox says not. Perhaps her first job should be to talk to them.
Hammond tells business leaders that No Deal will be taken off the table within days, yet May refuses to agree to rule it out.
SNP says this morning it won't discuss Brexit unless May considers 2nd Referendum.
Not looking good for May is it? :rolleyes


Not looking good for Sturgeon either, is it. She could be forced out before May  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 07:48:30 pm
Quote
Here from the mouth of the BOE --------
Here's something else from the Bank of England;
    Bank of England says no-deal Brexit would be worse than 2008 crisis      Bank warns of immediate economic crash, GDP to fall by 8%, unemployment to rise to 7.5%
   
Typical VNA tactics - been proved WRONG - TWICE about the same thing and then deflects the conversation.



 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 07:48:37 pm
Quote
Not looking good for Sturgeon either, is it. She could be forced out before May  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url])


Ms Sturgeon is the First Minister of Scotland.  She sits in the Scottish Parliament.
Ian Blackford is the leader of the SNP at Westminster. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 07:51:04 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxETW6xXcAAt6sv.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 17 January 2019, 07:53:25 pm
Quote
Here's a fact...52% voted Leave, 48% voted Remain ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url])

But what sort of BREXIT did they vote for?
Here's another fact;
In Scotland everything single council areae voted to REMAIN. :D



Why can you not accept that there was a vote and, like it or not, that was the result?  :lol



He can't, he won't, he never will. He's what we used to call at work a Barrack Room Lawyer. Knows everything about most subjects, and bores the tits of everyone in the bar, cos whatever youve done, whatever you own, whatever you aspire to to, he's already done (better), got one (bigger), and has acheived (quicker).  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 17 January 2019, 07:56:01 pm
And this is interesting;
(https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/images/bs/financial-stability-report/2018/november/brexit-lines-v2.svg?h=652&w=1143&hash=0BE29568A398EC2855C465545F099AF374C7013A&hash=0BE29568A398EC2855C465545F099AF374C7013A&la=en)


Not really. More guesswork from those who predicted time would go into reverse after the referendum result. Not news, same old tripe. :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 17 January 2019, 08:10:31 pm
Quote
Not looking good for Sturgeon either, is it. She could be forced out before May  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url])


Ms Sturgeon is the First Minister of Scotland.  She sits in the Scottish Parliament.
Ian Blackford is the leader of the SNP at Westminster. 
 



You seem to be oblivious to political events in Scotland, perhaps you're focusing too hard on events here. Let me enlighten you. The First Minister of Scotland is facing a misconduct investigation for holding a series of meetings with a former First Minister of Scotland, who was recently under investigation himself, but has been successful in his judicial review of the allegations made against him. Why the First Minister felt the need to claim these meetings were unofficial, when  government officials were present, at here home, has yet to be revealed.


This one still has some mileage to go yet. Cant wait  :lol


Oh, and do try and keep up ;)


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 17 January 2019, 08:16:02 pm
and away he goes, sifting through his daily delivery of 50 newspapers, desperately searching for another crap cartoon, all doom and gloom.

Jeez, the penny's just dropped. VNA is Fraser. From Dads Army.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 08:20:10 pm
I was listening to a report on the Sturgeon issue on the Today Programme the other morning. I had a little chuckle I must say.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 08:21:41 pm
I was listening to a report on the Sturgeon issue on the Today Programme the other morning. I had a little chuckle I must say.
Both the ex and the current first minister sound fishy to me  :lol   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 17 January 2019, 08:23:55 pm
and away he goes, sifting through his daily delivery of 50 newspapers, desperately searching for another crap cartoon, all doom and gloom.

Jeez, the penny's just dropped. VNA is Fraser. From Dads Army.


Can't be,  Fraser wss funny sometimes, VNA is just the pub bore.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 17 January 2019, 08:27:18 pm

I was listening to a report on the Sturgeon issue on the Today Programme the other morning. I had a little chuckle I must say.
Both the ex and the current first minister sound fishy to me  :lol


 :lol Nice one
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 17 January 2019, 08:37:52 pm
I was listening to a report on the Sturgeon issue on the Today Programme the other morning. I had a little chuckle I must say.
Both the ex and the current first minister sound fishy to me  :lol


 :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 08:43:29 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxCCDEgX4AES6f7.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 17 January 2019, 08:48:04 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 17 January 2019, 08:49:46 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 17 January 2019, 09:06:59 pm
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMz_-Rh69H6o&h=AT1dE-15kxWIRem2kdMT2lbESxSDN-_Bvn2S3LbjU3eb0cKJnd6leApQMZrKtVgkVCXp6lNCaj9KxEVb7l4OnAYQ8VXmJyDvsExx4bFaPAt5r9FVzXYdxj49-298p2q5o3cC&s=1 (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DMz_-Rh69H6o&h=AT1dE-15kxWIRem2kdMT2lbESxSDN-_Bvn2S3LbjU3eb0cKJnd6leApQMZrKtVgkVCXp6lNCaj9KxEVb7l4OnAYQ8VXmJyDvsExx4bFaPAt5r9FVzXYdxj49-298p2q5o3cC&s=1)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 09:09:27 pm
:D
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 17 January 2019, 09:16:26 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK_pi5Si-sU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK_pi5Si-sU)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 09:28:56 pm
Quote
You seem to be oblivious to political events in Scotland, perhaps you're focusing too hard on events here. Let me enlighten you. The First Minister of Scotland is facing a misconduct investigation for holding a series of meetings with a former First Minister of Scotland, who was recently under investigation himself, but has been successful in his judicial review of the allegations made against him. Why the First Minister felt the need to claim these meetings were unofficial, when  government officials were present, at here home, has yet to be revealed.


This one still has some mileage to go yet. Cant wait  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])


Oh, and do try and keep up ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url])

 The judicial review was in respect of the government investigations into sexual harassment claims against the former First Minister Alex Salmond.  Mr Salmond won his case against government for not following correct procedure.  The allegations against him continue to be investigated by police Scotland.  The judicial review had nothing to do with the actual allegations.


 
Ms Sturgeon meanwhile has referred herself to the parliamentary standards committee.


 
Party leaders in the Scottish Parliament have agreed to set up a cross-party committee to looking into the Scottish Governments handling of their investigation into claims of sexual harassment against Alex Salmond.  The committee is backed by First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.


Best to get yer foccing facts right before you lecture me on Scottish politics Agricola. :rolleyes
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 09:43:49 pm
Quote
You seem to be oblivious to political events in Scotland, perhaps you're focusing too hard on events here. Let me enlighten you. The First Minister of Scotland is facing a misconduct investigation for holding a series of meetings with a former First Minister of Scotland, who was recently under investigation himself, but has been successful in his judicial review of the allegations made against him. Why the First Minister felt the need to claim these meetings were unofficial, when  government officials were present, at here home, has yet to be revealed.


This one still has some mileage to go yet. Cant wait  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])


Oh, and do try and keep up ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url])

 The judicial review was in respect of the government investigations into sexual harassment claims against the former First Minister Alex Salmond.  Mr Salmond won his case against government for not following correct procedure.  The allegations against him continue to be investigated by police Scotland.  The judicial review had nothing to do with the actual allegations.
 
Ms Sturgeon meanwhile has referred herself to the parliamentary standards committee.
 
Party leaders in the Scottish Parliament have agreed to set up a cross-party committee to looking into the Scottish Governments handling of their investigation into claims of sexual harassment against Alex Salmond.  The committee is backed by First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.
Best to get yer foccing facts right before you lecture me on Scottish politics Agricola. :rolleyes
 
It took you 1 hour 20 mins to google that info  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 09:49:11 pm
Quote
It took you 1 hour 20 mins to google that info  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url])


Fazersharp, I think you will find Agricola was the one doing the googling.

But it's no much help if ye didnae ken whit ye are readin aboot. ;)   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 17 January 2019, 10:01:18 pm
Oi.....snowflake,  Google this.... The Quilliam report.... :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 January 2019, 10:19:08 pm
 Another thing aboot the Scottish Parliament is that it is designed to produce minority or coalition governments.


Therefore, legislation can only be passed and the country governed by cross party co-operation and consensus.


Whereas the UK is a first past the post majority system.  Westminster governments govern by majority, and the house is a house of government forcing through it’s agenda, with an opposition trying to hold it to account.  It’s confrontational environment.  A constant battle.



Problem is May has tried to govern by majority and force with a minority government.  Perhaps she should have taken a trip up to Scotland for lessons in minority government and diplomacy.


She just doesn’t get it. 



And here is the current state of the Westminster parliament;(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxIhlybX4AUrCU1.jpg:large)

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 11:15:47 pm
Diane Abbott's on question time  :rolleyes :rollin - has she climbed out the window and down the drainpipe because I thought they did not let her out in public any more
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 January 2019, 11:40:52 pm
I think Rory Stewart Minister of Justice reads this forum because I have just seen him quote me tonight on question time when I said this
We need to lock them all in a big room (like a pope conclave ) and not let them out until they get together and sort it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 January 2019, 12:41:00 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxIjmORWoAAcE9j.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 January 2019, 12:53:08 am
For every Dianne Abbott there is an Andrea Leadsome, the thickest woman in Parliament  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 January 2019, 12:56:09 am
Anyway, what's far more important is that some 97 year old driver has pulled out of a side road and written off two cars. Shouldn't be allowed out!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 18 January 2019, 04:01:12 am
Anyway, what's far more important is that some 97 year old driver has pulled out of a side road and written off two cars. Shouldn't be allowed out!


You mean the same as 18, 23, 28, 34, 46, 57, 62 and 74yr old drivers do as well?
Do we ban everyone for having a non planned "accident"?


Diane Abbott reminds me of a car crash, she needs to be banned from everywhere.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 18 January 2019, 08:35:20 am
Every time I've been involved in an accident it's been with drivers in their 30s & 40s turning right with out looking 2 of them attend by the police no blame on me. insurance company always blamed 3rd party for collision. Usually driving German made cars & a Range rover another good reason for leaving the EU   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 18 January 2019, 02:01:08 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 January 2019, 02:51:09 pm
 
Quote
The UK inflation rate fell to 2.1% in December, from 2.3% the previous month, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).The Consumer Prices Index (CPI) figure was the lowest in nearly two years.


 Talking of inflation, overall inflation has backed off due to a slump in global oil prices.

However, the weak pound is still having an impact on imported goods.



Lest take our bench mark price bike the Yamaha MT10.  Yamaha have just stuck the price up another 300 quid.  The on the road price is now - £11,941  So,


Pre Brexit vote on the road price May 2016 - £9999.00
January 2019 price - £11941.00
 
It’s not just Yamaha, another bike I fancy the Honda CB1000R+



September 2018 price - £12300
January 2019 price - £12600
 
Brexit is already hitting our biking hard.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 18 January 2019, 03:05:13 pm
The Japanese made bikes are still cheaper and better than those made in the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 January 2019, 03:13:38 pm
Quote
The Japanese made bikes are still cheaper and better than those made in the EU.
I don't see the relevance of that statement, however,


BMW S1000R is £11,190


That undercuts both the MT10 and CB100R+


But whatever, new Japanese bike prices have increased by around 20% since the BREXIT vote.  And we are still right now full members of the EU.


Well done those who voted LEAVE! :eek
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 January 2019, 03:32:38 pm
Good one Dazza  :car :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 January 2019, 06:11:32 pm
If it turns out Prince Phillip was to blame for the crash, will he be prosecuted for a driving offence like any of us would?.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 18 January 2019, 06:12:19 pm
Quote
You seem to be oblivious to political events in Scotland, perhaps you're focusing too hard on events here. Let me enlighten you. The First Minister of Scotland is facing a misconduct investigation for holding a series of meetings with a former First Minister of Scotland, who was recently under investigation himself, but has been successful in his judicial review of the allegations made against him. Why the First Minister felt the need to claim these meetings were unofficial, when  government officials were present, at here home, has yet to be revealed.


This one still has some mileage to go yet. Cant wait  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])


Oh, and do try and keep up ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url])

 The judicial review was in respect of the government investigations into sexual harassment claims against the former First Minister Alex Salmond.  Mr Salmond won his case against government for not following correct procedure.  The allegations against him continue to be investigated by police Scotland.  The judicial review had nothing to do with the actual allegations.


 
Ms Sturgeon meanwhile has referred herself to the parliamentary standards committee.


 
Party leaders in the Scottish Parliament have agreed to set up a cross-party committee to looking into the Scottish Governments handling of their investigation into claims of sexual harassment against Alex Salmond.  The committee is backed by First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.


Best to get yer foccing facts right before you lecture me on Scottish politics Agricola. :rolleyes



Be so kind as to indicate what it was I said that wasn't factual.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 January 2019, 06:19:38 pm
Quote
Be so kind as to indicate what it was I said that wasn't factual.
I already have.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 18 January 2019, 06:38:18 pm
Quote
Be so kind as to indicate what it was I said that wasn't factual.
I already have.


You appear to have repeated everything that I said, so your facts must be right. Well done :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 January 2019, 07:43:58 pm
Quote
You appear to have repeated everything that I said, so your facts must be right. Well done ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

Yes I am correct.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 January 2019, 07:53:16 pm
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 18 January 2019, 07:57:33 pm
Quote
You appear to have repeated everything that I said, so your facts must be right. Well done ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

Yes I am a cunt.



Agreed  :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 18 January 2019, 09:40:09 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 18 January 2019, 10:16:59 pm

Prince Philip had a car accident and his Range Rover was written off.

All that money and nothing to chauffeur it.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 January 2019, 10:33:50 pm


Prince Philip had a car accident and his Range Rover was written off.

All that money and nothing to chauffeur it.  :lol


Is there any news yet on who was at fault?.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 January 2019, 01:25:32 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxIBGlXWoAI85ae.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 January 2019, 10:19:49 am
Now that funny is really amusing :lol . It's referring to Remain trying to reverse the referendum result and damaging democracy isn't it. Nice one :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 January 2019, 02:33:03 pm
Quote
Now that funny is really amusing ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) . It's referring to Remain trying to reverse the referendum result and damaging democracy isn't it. Nice one ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/thumbup.gif[/url])

Don't you think then that BREXIT is actually our TRUMP moment.
And of course I think what the cartoonist is pointing out is that the USA is not the only country that the whole world is laugthing at.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 January 2019, 02:54:03 pm
And no, Remain wants even more democracy  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Oldgit on 19 January 2019, 04:39:36 pm

VNA is Trump.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 19 January 2019, 04:41:41 pm

VNA is Trump.


 :rollin :rollin :rollin now that is funny.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 19 January 2019, 07:07:18 pm
Quote
You appear to have repeated everything that I said, so your facts must be right. Well done ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

Yes I am a cunt.



Agreed  :thumbup



 :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 January 2019, 07:29:34 pm
And no, Remain wants even more democracy  :D
...right up until they've reversed the referendum result. They'll suddenly be against further 'democracy' after that ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 January 2019, 07:39:28 pm
And of course I think what the cartoonist is pointing out is that the USA is not the only country that the whole world is laugthing at.
I'm not surprised they're laughing at The UK. They can't believe that there's such a concerted attempt to overturn the legitimate result of the referendum. They don't expect that in one of the bastions of democracy.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 January 2019, 08:21:16 pm
Quote
I'm not surprised they're laughing at The UK. They can't believe that there's such a concerted attempt to overturn the legitimate result of the referendum. They don't expect that in one of the bastions of democracy.
But both the government and the main opposition are trying to deliver BREXIT.

But the reason the rest of the world is gobsmacked, is that they are trying to get access to the massive EU market, whilst the UK who is actually part of the single market is trying to leave.

The EU represents 25% of global GPD, it's right on our doorstep, we have a further 50 odd free trade deals via the EU round the globe, and what does the UK want to do?  It wants to walk away.

That's why we are a laugthing stock. :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 January 2019, 08:22:48 pm
May explaing what BREXIT is;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uqd0X8NJGk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uqd0X8NJGk)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 19 January 2019, 08:26:09 pm

The EU represents 25% of global GPD, it's right on our doorstep, we have a further 50 odd free trade deals via the EU round the globe, and what does the UK want to do?  It wants to walk away.
 
There is nothing "free" about trade through the EU
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 January 2019, 08:31:13 pm
Well this is what leaving will cost us,
(https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/images/bs/financial-stability-report/2018/november/brexit-lines-v2.svg?h=652&w=1143&hash=0BE29568A398EC2855C465545F099AF374C7013A&hash=0BE29568A398EC2855C465545F099AF374C7013A&la=en)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 January 2019, 11:36:49 pm
Quote
There is nothing "free" about trade through the EU
Would you care to explain?  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 20 January 2019, 01:25:54 am
Seriously !........Mtread, remind us all again, you're a civil servant aren't you?


https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-one-biggest-contributors-eu-budget/ (https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-one-biggest-contributors-eu-budget/)




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35642296 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35642296)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 January 2019, 09:08:56 am
Quote
There is nothing "free" about trade through the EU
Would you care to explain?  :rolleyes
Really ! 69 pages in and you don't realise that we have to pay to be in the trading club.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 January 2019, 09:33:23 am
Yeah I was a bit surprised that you didn't know anything about that mtread.

You're more than welcome to join us in the Leave camp if that's altered your stance ;) .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 January 2019, 12:16:23 pm
As you all very well know...... all trade within the EU is tariff free.  :)


Unless of course you distort the facts to support a particular view. Or you must have had a 'Boris moment' when you mix up what you are saying and pretend it never happened  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 20 January 2019, 12:22:45 pm
Well...... That's official then.......mtread is definitely living in an alternative reality to the rest of us.  :rolleyes
It's amazing what working for the other side does to you :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 January 2019, 12:46:22 pm
Quote
mtread is definitely living in an alternative reality to the rest of us
Indeed I am. It's called 'the real world'  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 January 2019, 12:54:09 pm
Right so the £9billion (Net) we pay to the EU is just for Junkers wine cellar then
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 January 2019, 01:03:11 pm
Parliament live in an alternative reality. Completely cut off from the electorate, the majority of whom voted Leave.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 01:59:08 pm
 
Quote
Right so the £9billion (Net) we pay to the EU is just for Junkers wine cellar then
The government’s own forecasts say that growth over the next 15 years without a deal will be 10% lower than it would otherwise have been.
 
Analysis showed that under WTO rules, British exports to the EU would be hit by tariffs of £6bn (roughly two-thirds of Britain’s net contributions). Imports were also likely to be affected, increasing the cost of living in the UK.
 
A no-deal Brexit could cost the UK £2.2bn every year as the network connecting the nation’s electricity supply with its European neighbours would no longer function effectively.
 
Nearly three-quarters of UK automotive businesses believe that a ‘no-deal’ Brexit would harm their future viability – with the head of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders again warning that failure to leave the European Union without an agreement would lead to plants being shut and jobs lost.  And that’s just the car industry.
 
Bear in mind that UK GDP was 2.04 trillion pounds in 2017.  The economic impact of leaving the EU on a NO DEAL according to government estimates would be 204 billion pounds a year after ten years.
 
The economic benefits that we get from our membership are well worth the comparative small 9 billion annual contribution.
 
     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 02:19:44 pm
This is well worth watching;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U9PtoH5bsM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3U9PtoH5bsM)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 20 January 2019, 03:04:23 pm
rightly or wrongly, some things go beyond the facts and figures mate. I'd vote leave regardless of any of it, And so would a lot of remainers I guess.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 03:57:09 pm
Quote
rightly or wrongly, some things go beyond the facts and figures mate. I'd vote leave regardless of any of it, And so would a lot of remainers I guess.
And that is beyond me.  What you are saying is that you want to be poorer.  What you are saying is that with our NHS we will need to decide who will live and who will die. 



I’ll tell you this, the 48% of people right across the country who voted to REMAIN, voted to REMAIN because they don’t want an isolationist UK.  Because we don’t want to be poorer.  We don’t want to lose our manufacturing base and our jobs.  We voted REMAIN because we don’t want to see our NHS fail.  We voted REMAIN because we don’t buy the xenophobic racist lies of the popular press such as the Sun, Express and mail, all owned by anti-working-class anti-trade union press barons who want to fuck it into ordinary people.


At the end of the day, the 48% are not going to allow a NO DEAL BREXIT.


And you know what, people up here in Scotland, we wanna know what the fuck is wrong with England.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 January 2019, 04:07:18 pm
Being part of the UK union brings significant benefits to the economy of Scotland, but you want to leave that.
We should be working together, helping each other for our mutual success, in harmony for the good of us all, not pulling apart. Tssk, bloomin isolationists :rolleyes .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 04:09:07 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxXIkDCX0AA7V0J.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 04:23:30 pm
Quote
Being part of the UK union brings significant benefits to the economy of Scotland, but you want to leave that.
We should be working together, helping each other for our mutual success, in harmony for the good of us all, not pulling apart. Tssk, bloomin isolationists :rolleyes .

Well it should have, but it hasn’t.  All my bleeding life I’ve suffered Tory governments voted in by England.


I’ve watched Scottish assets and industry be destroyed by successive governments we didn’t vote for.


You lot voted Thatcher in in 1979, her mission was to destroy the working class and our unions.  She did it, and in the process, she put over 4 million people on the dole and destroyed communities across this nation.


And do you know the reason that this country survived Thatcher’s onslaught?  Our oil industry footed the bill.  Scotland’s oil squandered on Thatcher’s neo liberal agenda. 



You talk of pulling together for mutual benefit but you want to scrap our highly beneficial membership of the EU on the back of some dumb stupid and phoney nationalism. 



Add saving 9 billion year might sound great, but not when 10 years down the line the annual cost of doing so is a loss of 204 billion pounds pa.  Well done!  Where is the mutual fucking success in that?


Being part of the EU brings significant benefits to the UK.  48% of the UK population and 2 nations out of this 4 nation union ain’t gonna thank you for bringing needless recession to our country.


So yeah, a NO DEAL BREXIT could very well spell the end of Great Britain.  And sadly, the reality is that may well be no bad thing.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 04:25:04 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxXSiAcWsAArQ4y.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 20 January 2019, 04:56:52 pm
Quote
rightly or wrongly, some things go beyond the facts and figures mate. I'd vote leave regardless of any of it, And so would a lot of remainers I guess.
And that is beyond me.  What you are saying is that you want to be poorer.  What you are saying is that with our NHS we will need to decide who will live and who will die. 


No, thats what you are saying.. I am saying I think we will be better off in the long run. Your letting your hatred of England fuel your anger, which I kinda get, but if you let that rage turn you into some sort of left wing fascist, then there is no arguing with you, because you refuse to recognise that people are allowed to think differently to you.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 20 January 2019, 05:01:12 pm
Apart from food prices, how about imported food availability? Held up because of additional Customs controls?


Oh dear, here we go, another scare tactic, no food on the supermarket shelves  :z




and the next one will be the lights going out :)


Wow, what took you so long. 489 posts and 20 pages before you trot out the the lights going out  :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 20 January 2019, 05:11:01 pm
Ogri has hit the nail on the head.....Something I think we've all been aware of and had to endure the  same old name calling and labels but.......VNA is a left wing racist fascist.
He's no better than the right wing fascists he's always condemning on here.
Tommy Robinsons got nothing on you.  :lol
Rebuild the fucking wall I say .....and move it south a bit.  :D

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 January 2019, 05:30:23 pm
I don't think we will see another attempt by corbin to force a general election because "Sir Nigel" is heading up a new party called the Brexit Party in readiness to fight. Sorry VNA but there does not seem to be a Marxist party that you could vote for.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 20 January 2019, 05:37:30 pm

Can't be much wrong with England you whining foccers north of the border voted not to become an independent nation.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 20 January 2019, 05:56:30 pm
Just a suggestion VNA  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 05:57:38 pm
 
Quote
No, that’s what you are saying.. I am saying I think we will be better off in the long run.
But here’s what you actually said.
Quote
rightly or wrongly, some things go beyond the facts and figures mate. I'd vote leave regardless of any of it, And so would a lot of remainers I guess.
What you are saying is that you don’t care about the facts and figures.  The facts and figures are quite clear, the economic experts are in agreement.  The economic benefit of EU membership is clear.


But you guys don’t care.  You are wreckers.
Quote
Your letting your hatred of England fuel your anger
I have no hatred of England.  None whatsoever.  But when people say they don’t care, we don’t give a shit about the facts and figures, we’ve had enough of experts, we just wanna wreck the economy, well yeah I get pissed off.  Like I said in another thread it really fuckin gets my goat.


Wreck our economy, wreck our NHS, wreck our schools, wreck our industry.  Wreck it all, cos you are voting leave np matter what, and you don’t care.  Fuck Yeah, wreck it all. :'(
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 06:00:21 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxXqdxcWwAIsIwU.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 20 January 2019, 06:16:27 pm
Why are you wasting so much time and effort whining? When we've left, you can have your independence ballot and leave, then you'll be able to sponge direct from Brussels (or Strasbourg, depending on whose turn it is)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 January 2019, 07:11:37 pm
But none of this matters....... because (apparently) us Remainers are going to 'steal Brexit' and you are certainly not going to get the 'No Deal' version you mistakenly assume 52% voted for.


There will be a deal of some sort with the EU,  however much you might whinge about it.



So get over it  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 January 2019, 07:41:23 pm
But none of this matters....... because (apparently) us Remainers are going to 'steal Brexit'
I've no doubt whatsoever that Brexit is going to get stolen from us.
you are certainly not going to get the 'No Deal' version you mistakenly assume 52% voted for.
I don't recall any talk of 'deals' when we voted to leave the EU in the 2016 referendum. I assumed we would just come out and that's it.
There will be a deal of some sort with the EU,  however much you might whinge about it. 
We won't even be that lucky. The arch Remainers will settle for nothing less than a total reversal of Brexit. There will be another referendum and Remain will most likely win it because a significant number of Leavers won't bother turning out again due to being ignored in the first one.

If by some miracle Remain lose again they'll just make us keep voting again until they do get the result they want :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 07:44:46 pm
Quote
I am saying I think we will be better off in the long run.
But based on what? 

I've tried and mtread has too, to find out why it the BREXITEER foccers want to leave.
So I'm back to my list.

1.       Daylight running lamps
2.       Graded Bananas
3.       Dazza’a Great Grandfather
4.       Cheap and nasty food and drink imports
5.       Crap inefficient electrical goods.
6.       Dislike paying EU dues


Not one BREXITEER foccer has come up with one single good reason for leaving the EU.

And youse wonder why some of us who want to stay are just a bit pissed off :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 07:46:48 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxXOiulXQAES6af.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 January 2019, 07:49:33 pm
And youse wonder why some of us who want to stay are just a bit pissed off :lol

If I was a Remainer I'd be chuffed to bits with how things are going at the moment :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 January 2019, 07:52:34 pm
I wonder what would happen if because of apathy and there is a low turn out and 10 million vote to stay and 9 million vote to leave. That would mean the 10 million to stay has over ridden the 17 million who wanted to leave.     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 January 2019, 07:55:55 pm

Not one BREXITEER foccer has come up with one single good reason for leaving the EU.

How about telling us a good reason why scotland should leave the UK
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 08:19:15 pm
 
Quote
How about telling us a good reason why scotland should leave the UK

No more Tory governments.  =    No BREXIT.

Don't forget that in 2014 we were told by Better Together, that in order to guarantee (GUARANTEE) REMAINING in the EU that Scots must vote NO to independence.

I believe that was a major deciding factor for many.

Now we’ve got BREXIT.  We were given a guarantee by the Westminster parties that this would never happen.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 January 2019, 08:27:23 pm
Quote
I don't recall any talk of 'deals' when we voted to leave the EU in the 2016 referendum. I assumed we would just come out and that's it.
And there you have exactly summed up the current problem. The box on the paper said 'Leave'. It should have said 'Leave and then what?' It certainly didn't say 'Leave with no deal' whatever people's assumptions are now. I distinctly remember the Leave campaigns making a big point that it would be 'easy to do a trade deal with the EU once we have left'. Talk of a 'Norway style arrangement' and that the EU would be begging us for a deal.


Remainers all know exactly what they want  ;)


So here we all are.......  In a mess.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 January 2019, 08:29:51 pm

I wonder what would happen if because of apathy and there is a low turn out and 10 million vote to stay and 9 million vote to leave. That would mean the 10 million to stay has over ridden the 17 million who wanted to leave.   


They'd come out with all this guff about how the original result was invalid because 'Leave didn't know what they were voting for' and how the new result is valid.


Oh hang on, that's what they're already trying to say :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 08:40:39 pm
Quote
I don't recall any talk of 'deals' when we voted to leave the EU in the 2016 referendum. I assumed we would just come out and that's it.
Yup, people actually thought the next day we had left the EU.
Quote
They'd come out with all this guff about how the original result was invalid because 'Leave didn't know what they were voting for'
Hmmmm.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 January 2019, 08:52:59 pm
So VNA wants scotland to leave the UK because a politician tricked his fellow scots to vote to stay.  :rolleyes   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 January 2019, 09:00:24 pm
Here are some of the quotes from the Vote Leave campaign prior to the referendum :

''There is a European free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border and we will be part of it… Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave…''
“It will be possible to negotiate a new settlement with the EU, including a UK-EU free trade deal, by the next general election in May 2020''
''There will be no change to the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic''

And finally from Michael Gove  ''If we vote to leave then I think the union will be stronger…  I think when we vote to leave it will be clear that having voted to leave one union the last thing people in Scotland wanted to do is to break up another.”

So that's what you all voted for, and now you're complaining?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 09:02:25 pm
So VNA wants scotland to leave the UK because a politician tricked his fellow scots to vote to stay.  (http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif) 

I voted YES in 2014 because of a lifetime of governments we in Scotland did not vote for.
I voted YES becuase I've seen the impact of decades of neo liberal politics.
I voted YES becuase I wanted Scotland to be always have membership of the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 January 2019, 09:15:54 pm
So VNA wants scotland to leave the UK because a politician tricked his fellow scots to vote to stay.  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) 

I voted YES in 2014 because of a lifetime of governments we in Scotland did not vote for.
I voted YES becuase I've seen the impact of decades of neo liberal politics.
I voted YES becuase I wanted Scotland to be always have membership of the EU.

Because of your one track mind and xenophobia you cannot see the similarities of your reasons to leave the UK and that of the leave the EU side.
 One thing though who told you that a no vote would guarantee that you remained in the EU.The president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso at the time said: "If one part of a country wants to become an independent state, of course as an independent state it has to apply for European membership according to the rules - that is obvious."
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 January 2019, 09:26:13 pm


I voted YES in 2014 because of a lifetime of governments we in Scotland did not vote for.



I voted Leave in 2016 because of what feels like a lifetime of Junckers we in the EU didn't vote for.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 09:29:51 pm
Quote
Because of your one track mind and xenophobia you cannot see the similarities of your reasons to leave the UK and that of the leave the EU side.
No I can't.  But that is probably because there are none.
Quote
One thing though who told you that a no vote would guarantee that you remained in the EU.The president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso at the time said: "If one part of a country wants to become an independent state, of course as an independent state it has to apply for European membership according to the rules - that is obvious."
Yes Better Together.  The opinion Jose Manuel Barroso and a small number of others was used to try persaude Scots to vote NO.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 January 2019, 09:32:49 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxX8ZOyXcAAvdpC.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 January 2019, 09:45:33 pm
Quote
Because of your one track mind and xenophobia you cannot see the similarities of your reasons to leave the UK and that of the leave the EU side.
No I can't.  But that is probably because there are none.
Quote
One thing though who told you that a no vote would guarantee that you remained in the EU.The president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso at the time said: "If one part of a country wants to become an independent state, of course as an independent state it has to apply for European membership according to the rules - that is obvious."
Yes Better Together.  The opinion Jose Manuel Barroso and a small number of others was used to try persaude Scots to vote NO.

OPINION  :eek :rolleyes :rolleyes of the The president of the European Commission --- him you mean.
Quote
But that is probably because there are none.
Proof that you are totally blinded by your own xenophobia.
I bet you wish you had your own Tommy (Robertson ) to fight for scotland.
Just go ahead and post a few cartoons and it will all be ok
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 January 2019, 10:22:46 pm

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxXOiulXQAES6af.jpg)


 Government to let burglars go free?. They already do. That's not anything new.












Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 21 January 2019, 04:38:04 pm
Quote
Because of your one track mind and xenophobia you cannot see the similarities of your reasons to leave the UK and that of the leave the EU side.
No I can't.  But that is probably because there are none.
Quote
One thing though who told you that a no vote would guarantee that you remained in the EU.The president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso at the time said: "If one part of a country wants to become an independent state, of course as an independent state it has to apply for European membership according to the rules - that is obvious."
Yes Better Together.  The opinion Jose Manuel Barroso and a small number of others was used to try persaude Scots to vote NO.

OPINION  :eek :rolleyes :rolleyes of the The president of the European Commission --- him you mean.
Quote
But that is probably because there are none.
Proof that you are totally blinded by your own xenophobia.
I bet you wish you had your own Tommy (Robertson ) to fight for scotland.
Just go ahead and post a few cartoons and it will all be ok


I'll have you know his proper title is HIS EXCELLENCY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE EUROPEAN UNION. I kid you not
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 January 2019, 09:46:31 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dxc_-YsWkAAMCQU.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 21 January 2019, 09:52:05 pm

I'll have you know his proper title is HIS EXCELLENCY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE EUROPEAN UNION. I kid you not
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 21 January 2019, 10:06:32 pm
EU version 2.0
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 January 2019, 11:28:27 pm
Here's the best 'Plan B'
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Oldgit on 22 January 2019, 10:53:14 am

Plan A & B--lets get to Foc out while we can--end of discussion.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 January 2019, 11:18:30 am
Quote
end of discussion
Unlikely  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 22 January 2019, 11:35:40 am
lol aint it just.. :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 22 January 2019, 11:41:30 am
as heated as this discussion gets, its good nobody actually falls out with anybody good and proper on this thread. at the end of the day we are all just blokes with our own opinions (and opinions as we all know are just like arseholes, we all got em) ...if we was all in the pub talking about it we'd all end just laughing it off and taking the piss out of each other. Nothing would be resolved lol. personally speaking, all this talk of the lies the leave camp told is immaterial, ive wanted to leave the eu for as long as I can remember. if that makes me imperialist, then I guess I am. Its a badge i'll wear with pride as much as resignation. we are what we are fellers..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 January 2019, 12:47:05 pm

When it comes to telling lies I'm surprised the Remainers pants haven't self combusted :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 January 2019, 12:58:53 pm
 Ex RAF Stuart Thomson of Veterans for Europe "BREXIT is the single most cowardly thing this country has ever done"


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glVnHPFcHVY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glVnHPFcHVY)

 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 January 2019, 01:24:01 pm
Quote
When it comes to telling lies I'm surprised the Remainers pants haven't self combusted

They can't. The Leave lies have used up all the oxygen  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 22 January 2019, 05:09:06 pm
as heated as this discussion gets, its good nobody actually falls out with anybody good and proper on this thread. at the end of the day we are all just blokes with our own opinions (and opinions as we all know are just like arseholes, we all got em) ...if we was all in the pub talking about it we'd all end just laughing it off and taking the piss out of each other. Nothing would be resolved lol. personally speaking, all this talk of the lies the leave camp told is immaterial, ive wanted to leave the eu for as long as I can remember. if that makes me imperialist, then I guess I am. Its a badge i'll wear with pride as much as resignation. we are what we are fellers..

I'll be honest, if all my mates start talking about Brexit down the pub, I will find some new mates  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 January 2019, 05:15:16 pm

Ex RAF Stuart Thomson of Veterans for Europe "BREXIT is the single most cowardly thing this country has ever done"



YamFazFan of Foc-U "A second referendum is the single biggest betrayal of democracy this country has ever done"
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 January 2019, 05:17:48 pm
Meanwhile the Brexit rats leave the sinking ship as Dyson announces he is moving his head office to Singapore  :(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grayo on 22 January 2019, 05:25:26 pm
Meanwhile the Brexit rats leave the sinking ship as Dyson announces he is moving his head office to Singapore  :(
Highly unlikely that has anything to do with Brexit. He moved his entire manufacturing operation to Malaysia in 2002 so it was only a matter of time.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 January 2019, 06:29:25 pm
He clearly has the UK's interests at heart.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grayo on 22 January 2019, 06:46:02 pm
He clearly has the UK's interests at heart.....
No he doesn't......but neither have lots of UK companies for a long time...... this is not something new.
I used to work for Hotpoint Creda many years ago and they ceased UK manufacturing in 2014 and moved to Hungary.
Clarks Shoes is another.....ceased UK manufacturing in 2005 but won't tell their customers where their production is.
None of these are anything to do with Brexit......it's all down to saving money with cheaper labour.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 January 2019, 06:58:20 pm
Quote
None of these are anything to do with Brexit......it's all down to saving money with cheaper labour.
And certainly, BREXIT will make UK labour cheaper with a weak pound and high unemployment.  The Tory party of course dream of a low wage economy.



Of course, to avoid import tariffs and quotas on major goods like cars quite a number of manufacturing companies have set up in the UK.  But if we leave the single market that takes away the very reason they came here.  They will leave too.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 22 January 2019, 08:03:39 pm
I saw in the news that car insurance is going up and one of the reasons quoted was brexit. Hows - that then.
I think there are a lot of people / companies using brexit as an excuse to hike prices.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 January 2019, 10:39:40 pm
Quote
I saw in the news that car insurance is going up and one of the reasons quoted was brexit. Hows - that then.I think there are a lot of people / companies using brexit as an excuse to hike prices.

Think you are right, and if we were to stay they'd probably use that as an excuse as well.
Noticed in the news Brittany Ferries are moving people's existing bookings so that they can provide extra freight, in case there's No Deal after 29 March.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 January 2019, 09:38:31 am

Who are Remain trying to influence with their Project Fear lies?.


The referendum is over and they already have Parliament on side. The Commons is stuffed full of Remainers who are going to see that Brexit never happens, Deal or No Deal.


If there's another referendum and Leave win again (highly unlikely due to Leave voter apathy) Parliament will still reject the result.


The only result that will ever be accepted is Remain and they'll just keep us voting until they get the answer they want. I think they've done this before elsewhere.


The trouble is Remain are going to demand further integration after all this is settled.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Millietant on 23 January 2019, 11:02:10 am
Remain won't need to demand it, if we stay, I gather we're already committed to it under the terms of the Treaty of Lisbon.

As a separate issue, as much as I detest Mrs May, the process of buying a car last week had me thinking about our negotiation position on Brexit with the EU and I actually felt a tinge of sympathy (not a lot, because I think she's a bit of a devious toad in general  :lol ) if I parallel this process, the following is how I would be approaching the car-buying deal

I start by him telling the dealer I want to buy a car and they'll need to be keen to get my business, otherwise I won't be buying one from them.

As we're talking, my wife says to the salesman, "but remember, he doesn't have the final say, because I don't want to buy the same car as him and I have to approve everything he agrees with you before he can sign up to buying the car. Oh and by the way, I won't do that unless you sell him the Paintwork Protection extra, the Extended Warranty extra, the GAP insurance extra and the Puncture Protection insurance extra....oh and by the way, I don't trust him to negotiate on my behalf..........Oh and by the way, if he doesn't give you what you want, I'll divorce him and get somebody else to come and buy the car who thinks like I do".

Does anybody really think I'm being supported in my negotiation position by my wife, and am I going to be able to get a good deal from the salesman ??

Anyone who approached a deal like that in the business world (or real world, outside of politics), would be a laughing stock with zero credibility.

Now I can see why getting anything other than a shit deal out of the EU whilst our Parliament undermines our national negotiating position, is living in cloud cuckoo land.


Whether we like it or not, taking away the threat from the salesman that you will not buy a car from him is commercial suicide, just like taking away the "No Deal" option is commercial and political suicide for our nation in any Brexit negotiations.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 January 2019, 11:16:23 am
I see Sony Europe is now departing for Amsterdam. It's not Project Fear, it's Project Fact. Whilst Leave continue to promote Project Fantasy - 'everything will be fine'  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 January 2019, 12:24:09 pm
I see that PP&O ferries are another company also using brexit as their cover story for their long held plans to move the registration of their ships to Cyprus.   

Here is the real reason. Cyprus has an extremely beneficial tax regime for shipping operations. Tax is charged on the basis of the tonnage and the age of the vessel, rather than on profit, which offers substantial savings compared with conventional taxations.There is no tax on profits from the operation or management or on dividends received from a vessel-owning company, and the wages of officers and crew are exempt from income tax. There is no capital gains tax on the sale or transfer of a Cyprus-registered vessel or the shares of a vessel-owning company, and no stamp duty on ship mortgage deeds.

Cyprus is one of the world’s top five ship management centres worldwide, I wonder why  :rolleyes
As VNA always likes to remind us - remainers kicking leavers - you are kicking the wrong target.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 January 2019, 01:12:56 pm
Meanwhile the Brexit rats leave the sinking ship as Dyson announces he is moving his head office to Singapore  :(
I see it differently It makes sense to move closer to their biggest customers which is the Asian market, it is part of Brexit that we look beyond the EU to wider global market. Its only the corporate headquarters a few people moving and he will still be paying UK tax, the company also employs 4,500 people in the UK and has a research and development in the UK, relocating the HQ will not lead to job cuts in the UK, Dyson has insisted.
What is annoying is that a big brexiteer like Dyson did not see that his timing on this would be weaponised by the remain campaign. It seems that his beef with the EU revolves around the (already sited by me ) stupid power limits on vacuums that actually favoured German manufactures that heavily lobbied the EU and got their way.
Anyway I am not a fan of dysons I think they are a load of plastic sh1t and as noisy as FOC. Give me a Henry any day - a proper UK company. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 23 January 2019, 01:38:17 pm
Yes Fazersharp....A Henry all day long.
And just to show that us Bexiteers are not racist.....I've given mine a makeover. :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 January 2019, 01:56:04 pm
Yes Fazersharp....A Henry all day long.
And just to show that us Bexiteers are not racist.....I've given mine a makeover. :D
:rollin But watch out or you will trigger the snowflakes with your racial stereotyping of names
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 January 2019, 03:03:59 pm
Are you sure Dazza? I thought this one was yours :) 


BREXITEER VOWS TO STOP SHAGGING HIS DYSON AS THEY ANNOUNCE MOVE TO SINGAPORE

Brexiteer vows to stop shagging his Dyson as company announces Singapore move
Brexiteer vows to stop shagging his Dyson as company announces Singapore move
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 January 2019, 03:43:20 pm
Do you remember this?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 January 2019, 04:17:11 pm
He is investing in the UK. Its only a few top brass moving to Singapore as far as I can tell
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 January 2019, 04:35:11 pm
Quote
He is investing in the UK. Its only a few top brass moving to Singapore as far as I can tell
Yup by moving manufactuering and then the company headquaters to Singapore.
Yes big invetsment in the UK there fazersharp.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 January 2019, 04:35:54 pm
(https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.4547762!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_630/image.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 January 2019, 04:42:34 pm
He moved his entire manufacturing operation to Malaysia in 2002
That was 17 years ago. 14 years before the referendum. 5 years into a Labour government.

Go on VNA/mtread, enlighten us all as to how that was due to Brexit or Thatcher :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 January 2019, 06:17:43 pm
Only if you tell us which bit of Dyson is 'investing in the UK', and why Brexiteers listened to Jeremy Dyson (or Tim Martin for that matter) in the first place.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grayo on 23 January 2019, 06:22:45 pm
Only if you tell us which bit of Dyson is 'investing in the UK', and why Brexiteers listened to Jeremy Dyson (or Tim Martin for that matter) in the first place.
Think you mean James Dyson.  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 January 2019, 06:46:30 pm
See, he can't even get his own name right  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 January 2019, 06:56:35 pm
Only if you tell us which bit of Dyson is 'investing in the UK', and why Brexiteers listened to Jeremy Dyson (or Tim Martin for that matter) in the first place.
I thought there'd be a catch :rolleyes .
Another one for the file marked 'Project Fear' then. Blimey it's getting a bit full :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 January 2019, 08:37:29 pm
Only if you tell us which bit of Dyson is 'investing in the UK', and why Brexiteers listened to Jeremy Dyson (or Tim Martin for that matter) in the first place.
Will this do https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/28/dyson-shrugs-off-brexit-fears-with-massive-uk-expansion-plan (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/feb/28/dyson-shrugs-off-brexit-fears-with-massive-uk-expansion-plan)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 23 January 2019, 09:12:52 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 23 January 2019, 09:16:42 pm
And just to preemptive the response  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 January 2019, 12:06:30 pm
Quote
You seem to be oblivious to political events in Scotland, perhaps you're focusing too hard on events here. Let me enlighten you. The First Minister of Scotland is facing a misconduct investigation for holding a series of meetings with a former First Minister of Scotland, who was recently under investigation himself, but has been successful in his judicial review of the allegations made against him. Why the First Minister felt the need to claim these meetings were unofficial, when  government officials were present, at here home, has yet to be revealed.
This one still has some mileage to go yet. Cant wait  :lol
Oh, and do try and keep up ;)

As I pointed out previously the judicial review brought by Mr Salmond was in respect of the government being in breach of it’s own procedures in their investigation of allegations made against him.  It was not as you said a review of the actual allegations made against him.
Quote
This one still has some mileage to go yet. Cant wait  :lol
That was the only bit you got right agricola. :lol
 
Former Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond arrested - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46984747 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46984747)
 
Yes this one could run for a wee while. :eek
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 24 January 2019, 04:48:42 pm
Quite a list of various charges the ex first minister is facing.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 January 2019, 05:30:34 pm
Indeed.
Charges have been passed to the Procurator Fiscal.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 24 January 2019, 07:26:54 pm
Not right to comment further till after the trial.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 24 January 2019, 07:29:53 pm
Quote
You seem to be oblivious to political events in Scotland, perhaps you're focusing too hard on events here. Let me enlighten you. The First Minister of Scotland is facing a misconduct investigation for holding a series of meetings with a former First Minister of Scotland, who was recently under investigation himself, but has been successful in his judicial review of the allegations made against him. Why the First Minister felt the need to claim these meetings were unofficial, when  government officials were present, at here home, has yet to be revealed.
This one still has some mileage to go yet. Cant wait  :lol
Oh, and do try and keep up ;)

As I pointed out previously the judicial review brought by Mr Salmond was in respect of the government being in breach of it’s own procedures in their investigation of allegations made against him.  It was not as you said a review of the actual allegations made against him.
Quote
This one still has some mileage to go yet. Cant wait  :lol
That was the only bit you got right agricola. :lol
 
Former Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond arrested - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46984747 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46984747)
 
Yes this one could run for a wee while. :eek


Nope, I was absolutely bang on, it was a review of the allegations, not an inquiry of the allegations. You are just too keen to pick fault. Ihm suprized ur not corecting evriwons grama!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 24 January 2019, 07:47:17 pm
Not right to comment further till after the trial.
Ah shit....You had to go and say it, didn't you.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 January 2019, 07:51:17 pm
Quote
Nope, I was absolutely bang on, it was a review of the allegations, not an inquiry of the allegations.
Nope sorry you don't have a clue. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 24 January 2019, 07:54:37 pm
So she really is little jimmy cranky
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 24 January 2019, 08:20:55 pm
Quote
Nope, I was absolutely bang on, it was a review of the allegations, not an inquiry of the allegations.
Nope sorry I don't have a clue. :lol


Neither do I
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 January 2019, 08:50:32 pm
Quote
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg291241.html#msg291241[/url])  « Reply #1804 on: Today at 07:51:17 PM »
  • Quote ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=post;quote=291241;topic=24678.1800;last_msg=291247[/url])
  • Modify ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=post;msg=291241;topic=24678.1800[/url])
  Quote<blockquote>Nope, I was absolutely bang on, it was a review of the allegations, not an inquiry of the allegations.</blockquote>

Quote
Nope sorry you don't have a clue. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

 Agricola, Mr Salmond quit the SNP and brought a legal action against the government.  It was a judicial review into government procedure.  Mr Salmond alleged that the government did not correctly implement it’s own investigative procedures.  He won his case.
You stated,
Quote
a former First Minister of Scotland, who was recently under investigation himself, but has been successful in his judicial review of the allegations made against him.

There has been no judicial review into the allegations made against Mr Salmond.


   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 24 January 2019, 09:08:55 pm
Quote
Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg291241.html#msg291241[/url])  « Reply #1804 on: Today at 07:51:17 PM »
  • Quote ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=post;quote=291241;topic=24678.1800;last_msg=291247[/url])
  • Modify ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=post;msg=291241;topic=24678.1800[/url])
  Quote<blockquote>Nope, I was absolutely bang on, it was a review of the allegations, not an inquiry of the allegations.</blockquote>

Quote
Nope sorry you don't have a clue. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

 Agricola, Mr Salmond quit the SNP and brought a legal action against the government.  It was a judicial review into government procedure.  Mr Salmond alleged that the government did not correctly implement it’s own investigative procedures.  He won his case.
You stated,
Quote
a former First Minister of Scotland, who was recently under investigation himself, but has been successful in his judicial review of the allegations made against him.

There has been no judicial review into the allegations made against Mr Salmond.


 



Fuck me! :eek

[/size]Mr Salmond initiated a judicial review which found that the Scottish Govt, as you correctly stated, cocked up. My understanding is, and I'm sure you will correct me if i am wrong, that those allegations are now unlikely to be continued as the process was tainted.
[/size]
[/size]Now, you and I could argue the toss about the correct legal terminology until the desert sands turn to ice and the camels come skating home, but that'll just make me look like a boring twat like you, so i'm not going to.
[/size]
[/size]Good evening
[/size]
[/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%] [/size]



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 24 January 2019, 09:52:21 pm
Not right to comment further till after the trial.
Ah shit....You had to go and say it, didn't you.  :lol

lol now thats foccing funny... :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 January 2019, 09:57:43 pm
Quote
Mr Salmond initiated a judicial review which found that the Scottish Govt, as you correctly stated, cocked up.
He resinged from the SNP.   He then brought a judical review against the government.  His complaint was that they did not correctly follow their own proceedure.  He won.
The judical review did not consider the allegations against Mr Salmond and made no comment on them.  The allegations stand.
Today Mr Salmond was arrested by the Scottish police force on the basis of those allegations.  Mr Salmond has been charged.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 January 2019, 10:27:39 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxrnJp2UcAApX2L.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 January 2019, 10:50:22 pm
So now to add Airbus to the No Deal disaster club, with


Sony
Dyson
Honda
Toyota
and all the others.


Yet the 'stupid woman' is still not listening





Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 January 2019, 11:19:40 pm
Quote
Yet the 'stupid woman' is still not listening

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxYZRfnX4AETzcK.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 25 January 2019, 05:14:32 am



Theresa May  :lol


https://youtu.be/ZiQGA48uY-g
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 10:37:07 am


Yet the 'stupid woman' is still not listening


She's not listening to an oportunistic marxist for sure. I don't blame her. The minute he starts dictating policy we've all had it.


Corbyn's just looking for any excuse to shirk and wriggle out of making a true commitment one way or the other outside of No Deal. He knows she won't take it off the agenda and in turn it gives him an excuse to refuse to talk.


Labour are trying to be Leave in the north and Remain in the south.


Everybody knows 'No Deal' isn't going to happen. It's been left on the agenda purely for negotiating reasons and to gee Parliament along towards accepting a deal.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 January 2019, 11:20:27 am
If everybody knows that No Deal isn't going to happen, how can it be a negotiating position? Or are the Tory MPs who need to be won over that stupid?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 11:59:29 am
Quote
If everybody knows that No Deal isn't going to happen, how can it be a negotiating position?
Yeah I too would like to know how that makes sense. 

If it ain't gonna happen.  Take it off the table.  And buisiness can stop wasting millions of pounds everyday making NO DEAL preparations, and jobs will be so much safer.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 12:02:54 pm
 Meanwhile here’s BREXIT hero Tim Martin being interviewed by Owen Jones.  Tim complains about EU laws, but guess what, just like the BREXIT foccers here, he can’t name one law he opposes.


Watch him squirm too when Owen asks about rates of pay at Weatherspoons.


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ2BMEMiO9s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJ2BMEMiO9s)
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 01:37:33 pm

If everybody knows that No Deal isn't going to happen, how can it be a negotiating position? Or are the Tory MPs who need to be won over that stupid?


No Deal is the default position. As things stand, if nothing happens between now and 29th March we're out with No Deal.


We all know that there's less than a chance in a million of that happening, but it's NOT completely impossible. That's why.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 01:45:32 pm

Tim complains about EU laws, but guess what, just like the BREXIT foccers here, he can’t name one law he opposes.



They do name them, but you're the self appointed judge and jury of whether those answers are acceptable and lo and behold, you dismiss them all.


Just because you refuse to accept the answers doesn't mean they're not valid.


I can refuse to accept that it will get dark this evening. Don't make it true tho :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 02:04:21 pm
Quote
They do name them, but you're the self appointed judge and jury of whether those answers are acceptable and lo and behold, you dismiss them all.

Sorry, but in the above video Tim Martin fails to name a single EU law that he objects to.
It was a direct question.
Quote
I can refuse to accept that it will get dark this evening. Don't make it true tho ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url])

Yup precisely what you are trying to do.  You are trying to argue black really is pure white.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 January 2019, 02:29:12 pm
Little lefty Owen - one of the 1% himself. If Tim would of actually known who the little snowflake lefty was he would of not let him in his pub. I wonder if Jones managed to drink all of that whole pint. Jones is one of the biggest wind up merchants around a day or so after the footage of Soubery being barracked in the street, little lefty Jones - not being one to let a self publicity opportunity go by he got himself down there and wound up a few of the people there and then proceeded to walk away at which point he started to film it like the pied piper with his little whistling tooty voice with them all following him. The next thing its up on his social media earning clicks.
So VNAs hero's are Alex Salmond and the one of the 1% - Little lefty Jones and Karl Marx
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 02:59:12 pm

just like the BREXIT foccers here, he can’t name one law he opposes.



If someone names a law they oppose, and you don't oppose that law, you declare that they haven't answered!. That's plain bonkers. You might disagree with their view point as is your right, but it's still an answer.


fazersharp dislikes DRL on cars. That's an answer to your question. Because you disagree you declare that it isn't an answer!.


How can ANYONE debate against reasoning like that?!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 January 2019, 03:20:07 pm

just like the BREXIT foccers here, he can’t name one law he opposes.



If someone names a law they oppose, and you don't oppose that law, you declare that they haven't answered!. That's plain bonkers. You might disagree with their view point as is your right, but it's still an answer.


fazersharp dislikes DRL on cars. That's an answer to your question. Because you disagree you declare that it isn't an answer!.


How can ANYONE debate against reasoning like that?!
VNA asked me to name ONE law I did not like and so gave the DRLs because IMO it negativity effects the safety and visibility of us bikers. VNA keeps deriding my view.
 VNA tell me why you think DRLs are a good thing for bikers.Also the favourite trick of VNA is to differentiate a law and an EU directive or legislation that VNA argues that was actually past by the UK government and not handed down by the EU when we actually had effectively no choice but to implement it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 03:37:23 pm

Yes you've named one law. You have provided an answer.


He's saying that no one can name a law that they disagree with. You just have.


What he actually means is that if he disagrees with your view point on that law, then you haven't answered!!. Madness.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 January 2019, 03:37:33 pm
The pub where the Jones/Martin interview took place was one of our locals, The Last Post in Southend, known locally as The Last Resort. The fact that Jones went through the door proves he's no snowflake. Especially if he tried the food :)


Yes he's a lefty. Why is that a problem?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 03:45:36 pm
Quote
If someone names a law they oppose,
So tell me what laws Tim Martin named.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 January 2019, 03:48:18 pm
Quote
fazersharp dislikes DRL on cars
Don't remember that being written on the side of a bus. Someone should have told Boris  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 03:49:26 pm


Yes he's a lefty. Why is that a problem?


No. As long as it's law abiding.


Some people hold law abiding Conservative views. Is that a problem?.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 03:56:24 pm

Quote
If someone names a law they oppose,
So tell me what laws Tim Martin named.


I disagree with the request, therefore it isn't a request and I shan't be answering it.


Can no one come up with a SINGLE request???!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 04:40:34 pm
Indeed, correct answer.

Tim Martin, leading BREXIT campainger, campaigning against the EU, that so we are told imposes laws on us, and that's why we need to leave, cannae name one EU law that he dislikes.

Not one.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 04:58:02 pm
Indeed, correct answer.
Thanks :D . I like it. If you disagree with the question/request/answer, then pretend it doesn't exist. Cheers for the top tip  :thumbup .
 :think Right, can someone come up with ONE good reason why we should stay in The EU?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 06:40:30 pm
Quote
Thanks ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url]) . I like it. If you disagree with the question/request/answer, then pretend it doesn't exist. Cheers for the top tip  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/thumbup.gif[/url]) .

Ca you show me, or perhaps name the EU law, that when asked, Mr Martin said he objected to?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 25 January 2019, 07:26:17 pm
Quote
Thanks ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url]) . I like it. If you disagree with the question/request/answer, then pretend it doesn't exist. Cheers for the top tip  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/thumbup.gif[/url]) .

Ca you show me, or perhaps name the EU law, that when asked, Mr Martin said he objected to?



There's no point in naming any EU laws/rules/regulations that we object to, because you'll just start antoher session of why you think those laws are beneficial, and how stupid we Leavers are. I've said it before, I'll say it again, you always seek confrontation and disagreement, you know whats best for everyone even if they don't want it, always looking to have the last word. Are you a woman? :lol . Everytime I read your posts, I see an image of the treasoner Soubry
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 07:37:07 pm
Ca you show me, or perhaps name the EU law, that when asked, Mr Martin said he objected to?
Indeed, correct answer.
Thanks :D . I like it. If you disagree with the question/request/answer, then pretend it doesn't exist. Cheers for the top tip  :thumbup .
:deal
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 07:55:40 pm
Quote
There's no point in naming any EU laws/rules/regulations that we object to, because you'll just start antoher session of why you think those laws are beneficial, and how stupid we Leavers are. I've said it before, I'll say it again, you always seek confrontation and disagreement, you know whats best for everyone even if they don't want it, always looking to have the last word. Are you a woman? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) . Everytime I read your posts, I see an image of the treasoner Soubry

 Of course, it’s a common tactic, that if you can’t answer the question, are unable to address the substance, or you are losing the argument, you attack the individual.


Me?  Personally I’ll address the substance everytime.


Fell free to insult me all you wish Agricola. ;)
 

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 07:57:23 pm
Quote
Quote<blockquote>Thanks  . I like it. If you disagree with the question/request/answer, then pretend it doesn't exist. Cheers for the top tip   .</blockquote>
Ca you show me, or perhaps name the EU law, that when asked, Mr Martin said he objected to?
Is that nope.  No.  Indeed Mr Martin could not come up with a single EU law he objected to. 


This man is one of the leading NO DEAL NREXIT campaigners.  But he doesn't seem to have a clue.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 08:19:48 pm
Just watched the interview. Four things...
1) It's The Guardian.2) No he doesn't name a specific EU law, but I get the impression that it's been highly edited.3) I've never thought Tim Martin a good spokesman for Brexit. That utra-boring laconic voice nearly sends me to sleep for a start :z 4) That Owen Jones is foccin irritating whatever side you're on.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 08:22:25 pm
...5) My punctuation is better than it would appear, but for some reason it all gets bunched up when I click Post :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 08:30:04 pm
Quote
No he doesn't name a specific EU law
Now that wasn't too difficult, was it. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 January 2019, 10:46:25 pm

Well you'd have to be daft to say otherwise. In that 'interview' he doesn't name a specific law that he objects to for sure. Like I say, he's a poor spokesman for Brexit and I suspect that it has been edited in Remains favour.









Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 10:53:13 pm
Quote
Well you'd have to be daft to say otherwise.
But
Quote
They do name them,
Yes, you had a daft moment. :lol
Quote
In that 'interview' he doesn't name a specific law that he objects to for sure.
He tries but fails.  He doesn't know of any.
Do you?  Other than, what was it daylight running lights?  Oh, that was Fazersharp, I think.
Any more for my list?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 January 2019, 10:55:48 pm
Time for a funny.................

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxrsPRdV4AEgGZu.jpg)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 January 2019, 11:48:06 pm
Quote
Yes he's a lefty. Why is that a problem?No. As long as it's law abiding.
Some people hold law abiding Conservative views. Is that a problem?.



Not at all, but I don't understand why 'lefty' was being used as an insult :rolleyes


Especially when the 'left' has given you:
The NHS
Free education
The minimum wage
Trade Union bargaining rights
etc


And the 'right' has recently given us :
Austerity
Deportation of valid British citizens
Failing privatised railways
Tax breaks for the rich
..... and of course Brexit  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 26 January 2019, 01:03:34 am
Mtread....You are now entering the realms of Monty Python..... :lol



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 26 January 2019, 02:14:20 am
Just a little weekend teaser.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=8tZmLypSNZM
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 26 January 2019, 11:20:25 am
Quote
I don't understand why 'lefty' was being used as an insult :rolleyes

Oh dear oh dear you are so blinkered by anything that is not on the left that you have completely missed it. The insult levied wasn't calling him a lefty, it was calling him "little" so quick to be triggered - is it cold in here - I think I have just seen a snowflake.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 January 2019, 12:16:11 pm
Quote
Just watched the interview.
It's excellant, isn't it?
Did you note Tim Martin at 04.00 onwards.
 He won’t discuss the poverty wages paid in his pubs.
He calls Jones childish for asking such questions.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 January 2019, 03:20:37 pm

On Owen Jones's Wikipedia profile it says that he's expressed euroscepticism and advocated Brexit.


Good lad :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 January 2019, 05:39:33 pm
Quote
Oh dear oh dear you are so blinkered by anything that is not on the left that you have completely missed it. The insult levied wasn't calling him a lefty, it was calling him "little" so quick to be triggered - is it cold in here - I think I have just seen a snowflake.
O yes, 5 times in one paragraph  :rolleyes . So, what have you got against little people, or are you using a random insult generator? :)
Seen a snowflake? Be careful, especially if you don't ride in the rain :b

And Dazza, you know I don't follow your dodgy links :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 January 2019, 02:17:36 pm
Its just been announced that Dyson is the 3rd highest tax payer in the UK at £127.8M. Like I pointed out earlier he is still a UK tax payer.
What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes. And leavers are accused of cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
After a NO deal lets see those companies crawling back to the UK because at the moment the deal says that the UK CAN NOT set better/more competitive company tax environments than that of the EU. After a NO deal we will be free to create more competitive environments than the EU has.In or out these companies do not care about the man on the street, so when remainers cheer them when they announce they are moving they are kicking the leavers when they should be kicking the companies.       
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 January 2019, 04:20:18 pm
Quote
Its just been announced that Dyson is the 3rd highest tax payer in the UK at £127.8M.
I think you mean 'was' the 3rd highest tax payers. Not when his HQ is in Singapore he won't be.
'Rejoice' also isn't the right word. You mean 'Despair' with a hint of 'I told you so'.
Also how many times do we have to say 'No Deal' just isn't going to happen. A majority of MPs (of all parties) are too sensible to let it happen.
Meanwhile Jacob Rees-Mogg asks the Queen to suspend Parliament if 'No Deal' is voted down. So what type of democracy is he in favour of then? Not Parliamentary democracy obviously. And we all know what happened to the last monarch who suspended parliament  :eek

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 January 2019, 05:34:26 pm
 
Quote
Its just been announced that Dyson is the 3rd highest tax payer in the UK at £127.8M.
That is as an individual.
Quote
Like I pointed out earlier he is still a UK tax payer.
And if resident in the UK will continue to be so.  However, as a majority shareholder in Dyson, his tax bill in the UK will now be slashed as his company has moved to Singapore.
Quote
What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.
Just because we are correct, does not mean to say we take any pleasure in job losses etc, after all we are just as likely to lose our jobs a result of BREXIT as anybody else.  Nor do I take any pleasure whatsoever in being poorer as a result of the BREXIT referendum – I can assure you!
Quote
After a NO deal we will be free to create more competitive environments than the EU has.
I think we would be better trying to get the great many companies who dodge their taxes to actually pay them, rather than drop the rates that so many don’t pay.  Of course the EU is already looking at legislation aimed at stopping companies from ducking their tax obligations.  Which of course is one of the reasons that the super rich like Jacob Rees-Mogg want out.
Quote
In or out these companies do not care about the man on the street
Some do, some don’t.  However, their legal obligation is to their shareholders.  They also exist to make a profit, and indeed can only survive and succeed in the long term if they turn a profit.  At the end of the day if there was a NO DEAL BREXIT (still a possibility, albeit an increasingly remote one) companies like Toyota, Honda, Nissan will leave the UK along with a host of other manufacturing companies.  The reason companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan came to the UK was to avoid import quotas and tariffs.  They set up shop here so they could manufacture inside the EU single market.   
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 January 2019, 05:37:53 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx3GZssXcAEti72.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 January 2019, 06:20:56 pm
What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.
When/if all their hope is lost and the UK leaves the EU (and it's still a BIG if IMHO) they'd happily lock the steering to dead ahead, jam the throttle wide open and set warp factor 10 for the centre of the sun as far as the economy is concerned.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 January 2019, 06:24:36 pm
'Rejoice' also isn't the right word. You mean 'Despair' with a hint of 'I told you so'.
If/when the UK leaves The EU, do you hope the economy defies your predictions and succeeds, going from strength to strength?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 January 2019, 06:26:17 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxrssnWU8AAQDa9.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 January 2019, 07:01:36 pm
The reason companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan came to the UK was to avoid import quotas and tariffs.  They set up shop here so they could manufacture inside the EU single market.   
 
So why did they choose the UK over any other EU state in the first place.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 January 2019, 08:18:04 pm
Because of our very slack labour laws and destruction of the unions?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 January 2019, 08:25:08 pm
 

Quote
So why did they choose the UK over any other EU state in the first place.
The key thing for them was unrestricted single market access.  No more import restrictions and no more tariffs.  Other manufactures of course have chosen other EU countries.



I don’t know precisely why they choose the UK, but I certainly welcome it.  I do know we had skilled workers, and plenty of people in general looking for work.  I would guess there would be government incentives.  The stability of the pound would be attractive, and despite exporting much of the produce the strength of the pound, as a high proportion of the components are imported.  Further the guarantee of single union agreements was key.


What the Japanese did prove though without a doubt, was the problem with the old UK manufacturers was the management, not the workforce. 



But don’t think they are kidding when they say they will consider leaving if there is not a suitable BREXIT deal.  Leave they will.  And on top of the 10’s of thousands of jobs provided by these big manufacturers are 10’s of thousands of jobs in supporting industries.


Quote
What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.
REMAINERS do not want to see these jobs go.  The BREXITEERS however don’t give a shit.  Read again the most optimistic of the very very few economists that think BREXIT is a good idea.  Professor Minford states quite clearly that in the event of a NO DEAL BREXIT wage inequality will increase and UK manufacturing will all but cease to exist.


Quote
What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.


So again, it’s what you want.  The rest of us would like to keep our jobs and our wealth thanks.


Or as I am begining to feel, the BREXITEERS don't have a fucking clue what they want, but they sure as fuck know how to get it.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 January 2019, 09:10:31 pm
Because of our very slack labour laws and destruction of the unions?
So the reason these companies had come here is because of our slack labour laws and yet you site that after a brexit the labour laws will be slacker which will make the UK more attractive to companies, you seem to be using the same argument to cover everything just like labour has "spent" the reversing the cuts in capital gains tax 10 times over. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 January 2019, 09:25:13 pm



Quote
So why did they choose the UK over any other EU state in the first place.
The key thing for them was unrestricted single market access.  No more import restrictions and no more tariffs.  Other manufactures of course have chosen other EU countries.



I don’t know precisely why they choose the UK, but I certainly welcome it.  I do know we had skilled workers, and plenty of people in general looking for work.  I would guess there would be government incentives.  The stability of the pound would be attractive, and despite exporting much of the produce the strength of the pound, as a high proportion of the components are imported.  Further the guarantee of single union agreements was key.


What the Japanese did prove though without a doubt, was the problem with the old UK manufacturers was the management, not the workforce. 



But don’t think they are kidding when they say they will consider leaving if there is not a suitable BREXIT deal.  Leave they will.  And on top of the 10’s of thousands of jobs provided by these big manufacturers are 10’s of thousands of jobs in supporting industries.


Quote
What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.
REMAINERS do not want to see these jobs go.  The BREXITEERS however don’t give a shit.  Read again the most optimistic of the very very few economists that think BREXIT is a good idea.  Professor Minford states quite clearly that in the event of a NO DEAL BREXIT wage inequality will increase and UK manufacturing will all but cease to exist.


Quote
What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.


So again, it’s what you want.  The rest of us would like to keep our jobs and our wealth thanks.


Or as I am begining to feel, the BREXITEERS don't have a fucking clue what they want, but they sure as fuck know how to get it.


If you're unhappy with the result of the referendum, which obviously you are and that's your right, the only person/people to blame are those who gave us it in the first place.


We were offered a free and fair democratic vote. We took part, we voted. Your argument against the Leave voters is an argument against democracy.


If your case was as strong as you believe Remain would have walked it but they didn't did they.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 January 2019, 09:44:30 pm
 
Quote
So the reason these companies had come here is because of our slack labour laws and yet you site that after a brexit the labour laws will be slacker which will make the UK more attractive to companies,

Why don’t we re-introduce slavery?  That might attack a few investors.  I guess it’s a matter of how low you BREXITEERS want to go Fazersharp.


Thought the truth is as I explained, they came here for a multitude of reasons.  But if they do not maintain quota free and tarriff free access to the market, including continued free import of parts and labour they will pack up and manufactuer elsewhere.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 January 2019, 10:03:46 pm
Quote
So the reason these companies had come here is because of our slack labour laws and yet you site that after a brexit the labour laws will be slacker which will make the UK more attractive to companies,

Why don’t we re-introduce slavery?  That might attack a few investors.  I guess it’s a matter of how low you BREXITEERS want to go Fazersharp.

Thought the truth is as I explained, they came here for a multitude of reasons.  But if they do not maintain quota free and tarriff free access to the market, including continued free import of parts and labour they will pack up and manufactuer elsewhere.

The slack labour laws were never my argument - they were yours and I am pointing out that on one hand you (Mtread) say companies  have come here because of slack laws and then on the other you say that laws will be slacker after a brexit. Mtread was pointing out the companies leaving and I asked why they came in the first place and he said because of slack labour laws so if you maintain that labour laws will be slacker after brexit then proof that they will not be is that the companies are choosing to leave that first came here because of slack laws.     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 January 2019, 10:06:24 pm
Quote
The slack labour laws were never my argument - they were yours and I am pointing out that on one hand you
Not my arguement.  I'm a trade unionist.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 January 2019, 10:11:00 pm
But if they do not maintain quota free and tarriff free access to the market, including continued free import of parts and labour they will pack up and manufactuer elsewhere.

By free import of labour you mean CHEAP labour from poor countries who to them a low wage is a rich man's wage. That part of the EU is totally dysfunctional - in their quest to ever expand they have welcomed countries who are not financially ready.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 January 2019, 10:11:23 pm

Quote
So the reason these companies had come here is because of our slack labour laws and yet you site that after a brexit the labour laws will be slacker which will make the UK more attractive to companies,

Why don’t we re-introduce slavery?  That might attack a few investors.  I guess it’s a matter of how low you BREXITEERS want to go Fazersharp.



fazersharp didn't suggest, mention or advocate that at all obviously.


He was highlighting a flaw in mtreads argument.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 January 2019, 10:12:17 pm
 
Quote
If your case was as strong as you believe Remain would have walked it but they didn't did they.
Indeed, why did people ignore the facts and vote to LEAVE.  Beat the hell out of me.



This thread has been as frustrating as it has been interesting.  It’s run it’s course now.  Yourself, YamFazFan, fazershap and all the other BREXITEER foccers here, not one of you can come up with a good reason to leave the EU.  Not one reason to change the path we have been on for over 40 years.


Aside for reasons, none of you have come up with a real and substantial argument for leaving.  Nothing.


Which of course, as I have already said, what the fuck is wrong with the UK, or more to the point, what the fuck is wrong with the English. 



I had a long conversation with a friend in Wales about this.  We came up with the following;


The 20 year press project to undermine the EU.  All the lies, like the ban on bent bananas.....


People are dis-enfranchised.  It’s the low wage economy.  The millions working for people like Tim Martin, on the minimum wage, zero hour contracts – the full time workers claiming benefits.  Millions of people now being taken a loan of after decades neo liberal politics (ie Tory rule)


Then you combine that with the lack of trust and respect in our politicians – which can clearly be seen on this forum.  But why is that we don’t trust politicians?


Tony Blair.  Or should I say Tony Bliar.  Tony took us into wars on the basis of lies.  He sent our kids to fight and die in foreign lands on the back of his religious global capitalist dream – or whatever you want to call it.  But the key here is a PM who lied to parliament, and lied to the country in order to fight his insane wars.  Tony Blair is a cunt.



The global financial crash.  Remember Gordon Brown (the worst chancellor in British history and another cunt) – no more boom and bust.  Gordon adored Fred Goodwin and friends.  The people paid kings ransoms for their expertise – we had to pay em that money or they would leave the country we were told – then when these people crashed our whole banking system and threatened our whole economy – well what did Blair, Brown and their cunty friends do – they bailed them out, then asked us all to write the cheque.


The MP’s expenses scandal.


There’s more stuff to go into the mix.  But those are basics.


dis-enfranchised taken to war on a lie   the financial crash with the rich bailed out and us left to foot the bill.


I think that’s why people aren’t listening.  They don't care about facts beciase thye've been told too many lies.  They have had enougth of the experts as Gove summed up.  I’m not sure people are actually even listening to Jacob, Boris or Nigel.  They just wanna kick that ball.  People don’t care if it hurts.  Millions have nothing to lose anyway.  Why should they give a fuck?


That’s kinda how I see it.


So BREXIT here we come - thanks England.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 January 2019, 10:12:24 pm
Quote
The slack labour laws were never my argument - they were yours and I am pointing out that on one hand you
Not my arguement.  I'm a trade unionist.

Yes they were in your arguments against brexit
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 January 2019, 10:15:10 pm
Quote
By free import of labour you mean CHEAP labour from poor countries who to them a low wage is a rich man's wage.
No in the case of Nissan, Toyota etc, it's the ability to move between plants and manufactuerers (suppliers).  This is generally at an engineering level.  It's also the ability to recruit engineers from the EU as a whole.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 January 2019, 10:16:47 pm
Quote
Yes they were in your arguments against brexit
No it's not an arguement I would make.  I am all for trade unions and labour rights.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 January 2019, 10:21:36 pm
what the fuck is wrong with the English. 
I had a long conversation with a friend in Wales about this.  We came up with the following;
 It’s the low wage economy.  The millions working for people like Tim Martin, on the minimum wage,

Remember Gordon Brown (the worst chancellor in British history and another cunt) – no more boom and bust.  Gordon adored Fred Goodwin and friends.  The people paid kings ransoms for their expertise –
 
Quote
what the fuck is wrong with the English.
Racist remark
Quote
It’s the low wage economy.
Brought about by the import of cheap labour from eastern EU states. which you welcome
Quote
Gordon adored Fred Goodwin and friends.  The people paid kings ransoms for their expertise –
Brexiters have been telling you leavers not to believe the "experts" for ages, funny how you pick and choose which ones you want to belive.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 January 2019, 10:24:44 pm
Quote
Yes they were in your arguments against brexit
No it's not an arguement I would make.  I am all for trade unions and labour rights.

That's why is said they were in your arguments AGAINST brexit ------ one too many of the yellow poison me thinks, stick another log on your croft farm open fire and another ice in your glass.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 January 2019, 10:28:22 pm
Quote
That's why is said they were in your arguments AGAINST brexit ------ one too many of the yellow poison me thinks, stick another log on your croft farm open fire and another ice in your glass.
Stove actually.  Yes getting cold, more logs on!

Yes, yes, yes, silly me, of course.  The Tories will cancel numerous Labour laws, such as the working time directive etc etc, if we leave the EU.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 January 2019, 10:40:15 pm
Quote
That's why is said they were in your arguments AGAINST brexit ------ one too many of the yellow poison me thinks, stick another log on your croft farm open fire and another ice in your glass.
Stove actually.  Yes getting cold, more logs on!

Yes, yes, yes, silly me, of course.  The Tories will cancel numerous Labour laws, such as the working time directive etc etc, if we leave the EU.
 
I thought that France has even worse labour laws ? and yet you want to be closer to them and you want to harmonise our laws ever more with them by being in the EU. Who has said workers rights would be diminished by brexit. 
Wouldn't it be better for you and your trade union cause to be free of the EU and to be able to fully decide on our own laws/ legislation / workers rights that fully fits our needs. By remaining in the EU you are further away from getting what you want regarding workers rights I would of thought.

Hasn't the working time directive been agreed by the EU and we have to implement it ?. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 January 2019, 10:55:37 am

Apparently there's neither the appetite nor anywhere near the numbers in Parliament to win a vote for a second referendum.


Looks like my prediction that they'd reverse the democratic decision is going to be incorrect. Thank goodness for that. I'll never have been so happy to be proved wrong :lol .


Hopefully with a few tweaks and a bit of cooperation from Brussels, May's deal will now get the approval of Parliament.


The Remainers to whom The EU is akin to a religous cult will be hoping and praying that the UK is totally destroyed economically in order to be be "proved right", but I reckon we'll be just fine :) .


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 11:01:43 am
 
Quote
I thought that France has even worse labour laws ? and yet you want to be closer to them and you want to harmonise our laws ever more with them by being in the EU. Who has said workers rights would be diminished by brexit. 

I am not expert on French Labour laws, but I would be very surprised if workers in France have even less rights than we have here in the UK.
 
Quote
Wouldn't it be better for you and your trade union cause to be free of the EU and to be able to fully decide on our own laws/ legislation / workers rights that fully fits our needs.
Our trade union cause.  Trade unions are for all.  Trade unions exist for the benefit of us all, including business.  The EU is the biggest single free trading market in the world.  It accounts for 25% of global GDP.  It’s on our door step.  We cannot afford to ignore it.  It’s pretty obvious that to have such a massive and open trade arrangement, without restriction and tariff, you have to then have common standards.  Trade Unionists are not by nature isolationist, we believe in rights for all, not just in the UK, not just across the EU, but ultimately common rights and standards across the globe. 
Quote
By remaining in the EU you are further away from getting what you want regarding workers rights I would of thought.
The dream of the Tory party is a zero hours low wage economy. 

Quote
Hasn't the working time directive been agreed by the EU and we have to implement it ?

We are the EU.  The policy was negotiated with and agreed by the UK along with all the other member states.  The EU is a democracy after all, and one which works on the principle of consensus.


The Tories will of course aim to scrap the working time directive all with all the other EU work place legislation.  Back in 2015 David Cameron tried to negotiate out of the working time directive.  Mr Cameron also tried to scrap laws granting agency workers the same pay and rights as full time employees.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 11:16:51 am
 
Quote
hopefully with a few tweaks and a bit of cooperation from Brussels, May's deal will now get the approval of Parliament.

I wouldn’t think so.  Remember what May’s deal is.  It simply removes us politically from the EU, but leaves us trading as before as part of the single market.  Effectively the end of march is the date the UK loses it’s sovereignty.  We will have to abide by EU rules but have no say whatsoever in them.  As Fazersharp says, the EU will decide and we will have to implement.  We will no longer be the rule makers, we will simply become rule takers. 



This is a withdrawal agreement.  It allows a 2 year period in which to negotiate BREXIT.  Ie to negotiate our future relationship and trading terms with the EU.  It’s when the real fun starts.  This is just the warm up.


The backstop is there to hold us in a customs union of the negotiations fail, which of course they will.  The backstop is there to prevent a hard border being formed in Northern Ireland, and in doing so undermining the Good Friday Agreement, which could undermine peace in Ireland and the UK.


May’s deal will also most likely trigger a second Scottish Independence Referendum, Nicola Sturgeon will not be able to hold back the bulk of the SNP membership keen to rush into a second ballot.  So the UK will be left negotiating it’s exit from the EU whilst there is a second Scottish Referendum to decide the actual future of the United Kingdom.


May’s deal is a fucking mess.  We need to move rapidly to a settled position.  Not kick the ball down the road again.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 January 2019, 11:32:17 am

The dream of the Tory party is a zero hours low wage economy. 

Quote
Hasn't the working time directive been agreed by the EU and we have to implement it ?

We are the EU. The policy was negotiated with and agreed by the UK along with all the other member states.  The EU is a democracy after all, and one which works on the principle of consensus.

The Tories will of course aim to scrap the working time directive all with all the other EU work place legislation.  Back in 2015 David Cameron tried to negotiate out of the working time directive.  Mr Cameron also tried to scrap laws granting agency workers the same pay and rights as full time employees.
 
So by those two statements you have backed up what the brexiters have been saying all along about the EU. You say that  "The policy was negotiated with and agreed by the UK" but clearly the UK government did not fully agree with it but still we had to implement it ---- just like many of the other UK legislations that you like to point out were agreed by the UK when brexiteers say we dont like the EU legislation. Proof that we did not fully agree with it in your next sentence "Back in 2015 David Cameron tried to negotiate out of the working time directive."  . Also brexiters have been saying that you can not negotiate with the EU as you have demonstrated.If you don't like the Tories then stop voting for them - I believe the phrase is

Quote from: VNA

  The people get the government they deserve. 
So I would say that if you want change then its easier to vote for and change a single countries government than it is to change their "Excellencies" in the EU 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 January 2019, 11:45:09 am
We will have to abide by EU rules but have no say whatsoever in them.
 
Like we do now -- this is what leavers have been saying when the remainers say we will have no say in EU laws if we leave. We don't have an effective say now and don't quote our veto because to my knowledge it has never been used.
We will no longer be the rule makers, we will simply become rule takers. 
its a fallacy to think that within the EU we are the rule makers to any degree that suits our needs
Better for a clean break, keep the 39 Billion, and negotiate what we need from that position.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 January 2019, 11:53:02 am
   Trade Unionists are not by nature isolationist, we believe in rights for all, not just in the UK, not just across the EU, but ultimately common rights and standards across the globe. 

The whole of the EU is an  isolationist, protectionist racket that is destroying Countries like Africa with its tariffs - how does that fit in with your rights for all across the globe.
The more you say the the clearer it sounds that you should of voted to the LEAVE the EU
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 11:53:41 am
 
Quote
You say that  "The policy was negotiated with and agreed by the UK" but clearly the UK government did not fully agree with it but still we had to implement it ---- just like many of the other UK legislations that you like to point out were agreed by the UK when brexiteers say we dont like the EU legislation. Proof that we did not fully agree with it in your next sentence "Back in 2015 David Cameron tried to negotiate out of the working time directive."  . Also brexiters have been saying that you can not negotiate with the EU as you have demonstrated.If you don't like the Tories then stop voting for them - I believe the phrase is


Which brings me back to, what is the EU legislation that you object to?


But you don’t know.


The reality is that you cannot have a open free trade market across 28 countries without common rules and standards.


The reality is that if we break from those rules and standards then we face tariffs and restrictions.  That is tariffs and restrictions in trading with our immediate neighbours.  We will become poorer if we leave the EU.


You say you want to agree free trade deals around the globe.  That means agreeing terms and common standards country by country around the globe.  I will tell you now.  It will take years per deal, and after years of agreeing a deal, you cannot then come back a year later and say – well actually we have changed our minds – we want a better deal – and oh we don’t like that bit etc etc.  Based on your logic the UK will not be able to sign off one single free trade deal.



The EU employment legislation is good legislation.  The Tories are anti-working class, anti-trade union, anti-minimum wage, anti-living wage, for low wages, for a hire an fire culture, for zero hours, in favour of food banks and in work benefits.  So no the Tories don’t like workers rights.


As I said before you don’t know what you want, but you know how to get it.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 11:55:38 am
(https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/images/bs/financial-stability-report/2018/november/brexit-lines-v2.svg?h=652&w=1143&hash=0BE29568A398EC2855C465545F099AF374C7013A&hash=0BE29568A398EC2855C465545F099AF374C7013A&la=en)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 11:57:18 am
Less industry.Less jobs.More inequality.More poverty.More food banks.
You might not know what you want, but I can tell you what you are going to get.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 12:00:56 pm
Ach well, as oor country continues to slide towards recession, well why not have a giggle;

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx9N1OiWkAABknu.jpg:large)


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 January 2019, 12:05:42 pm
What's the point of a minimum wage of £50 per hour if it means we have to pay £20 for a can of coke.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 28 January 2019, 12:06:50 pm
ive honestly yet to see an anti Brexit cartoon thats actually funny lol. now this on the other hand...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 28 January 2019, 12:39:16 pm
ive honestly yet to see an anti Brexit cartoon thats actually funny lol. now this on the other hand...


.jxr  Now that a (image) file extension you don't come across every day, and limited programmes that can open it.
Good old Microsoft.    :pokefun
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 January 2019, 01:00:41 pm
Quote
Mtread was pointing out the companies leaving and I asked why they came in the first place and he said because of slack labour laws so if you maintain that labour laws will be slacker after brexit then proof that they will not be is that the companies are choosing to leave that first came here because of slack laws.     
It wasn't a statement. I posed it as a question, which you obviously or conveniently missed!
Quite clearly the main reason they are in the UK is because of our custom union and single market membership. Both of which you want us to lose.
So here's the new tactic -
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 01:05:53 pm
Nice one!
Problem solved.  They probably won't notice as they dunno what they want.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 01:11:44 pm
Quote
ive honestly yet to see an anti Brexit cartoon thats actually funny lol. now this on the other hand...
I never download files form forums, sorry.  But how about this.  Made me chuckle. :lol

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx_9FgMW0AAi_r1.jpg)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 January 2019, 01:25:37 pm
Quote
Mtread was pointing out the companies leaving and I asked why they came in the first place and he said because of slack labour laws so if you maintain that labour laws will be slacker after brexit then proof that they will not be is that the companies are choosing to leave that first came here because of slack laws.     

Quite clearly the main reason they are in the UK is because of our custom union and single market membership. Both of which you want us to lose.
 
But why choose the uk over any other countries. If it was not because our laws are slacker than the rest of the EU then what was it that made them choose us over anywhere else.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 02:50:17 pm
Quote
But why choose the uk over any other countries.
All you need to know is that if we are outside of the single market and the customs union they will leave.
Previously they were stuck with quotas and tarriffs. 

Then there are parts issues.  Take BMW's mini crankshaft,
Quote
A cast of the raw crankshaft – the part of the car that translates the movement of the pistons into the rotational motion required to move the vehicle – is made by a supplier based in France.
From there it is shipped to BMW’s Hams Hall plant in Warwickshire, where it is drilled and milled into shape. When that job is complete, each crankshaft is then sent back across the Channel to Munich, where it inserted into the engine.
From Munich, it is back to the Mini plant in Oxford, where the engine is then “married” with the car.
If the car is to be sold on the continent then the crankshaft, inside the finished motor, will cross the Channel for a fourth time.
   https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu)


 The reality is that if we leave without either a single market commitment or a customs union then they will leave.  They must have quota free and tariff free access to the whole EU market, and the whole of their manufacturing process must be within the EU.
 

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 January 2019, 03:56:43 pm
Same with the Triumph factory in Hinckley. Crankshaft blanks made in Spain, finished in Hinckley. Petrol tanks made in Italy, painted in Hinckley. Etc etc.
Bikes crated up complete and shipped to the EU.
All dependent on free movement and tariff free.

BTW have you seen the new Rocket 3?  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 04:36:02 pm
Quote
Same with the Triumph factory in Hinckley. Crankshaft blanks made in Spain, finished in Hinckley. Petrol tanks made in Italy, painted in Hinckley. Etc etc.
Bikes crated up complete and shipped to the EU.
All dependent on free movement and tariff free.

 Plus consider all the major manufacturers across the EU using components manufactured or finished in the UK.  Again, they need the single market, outside of it, and well they will look for other suppliers.
 
The truth will always be there is no deal better than the deal we already have.  Even Theresa May knows that.
BREXIT at the end of the day is an exercise in self harm.



Quote
BTW have you seen the new Rocket 3?  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])



Hmmm, not my kinda thing.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 January 2019, 05:40:32 pm
More on the mini crankshaft;
Quote
The crankshaft of the BMW Mini, which is the bit which transmits the power of the engine to the wheels, crosses the English Channel three times while the car is being made. It is cast in France; it goes to a plant in Warwickshire to be milled and finished. It is then shipped to BMW’s plant in Germany where the engine is assembled and comes back as part of that whole unit to be fitted into the car at the BMW plant near Oxford. When it is exported to Europe, as very many of these cars are, it crosses the Channel for a fourth time.
 
This is the reality of modern sophisticated manufacturing. Three channel crossings is actually quite modest for a component. Some go back and forth much more.
 
You could tell a similar story about Bentley, Jaguar Land Rover or about the wings of the Airbus aircraft which are made here (though the plane as a whole is assembled in Toulouse) about much of the output of Rolls-Royce or Bae Systems, the pillar of the UK defence industry.
 
We don’t have nearly enough world-class manufacturing to support our exports, but what we do have is heavily dependent on key components from the rest of the European Union. This business arrangement becomes totally uneconomic if we do not continue to have free trade but instead had to pay the common EU tariff of 10%. Most of the components industry operates on a profit margin of between 5% and 10% so it would become unprofitable overnight.
 
And if a supplier upped prices to compensate for the tariff it would be uncompetitive. There would also be a huge additional cost in time and paperwork because the component would be subject to customs checks each time it crossed the border.
 
Nissan’s Sunderland car plant produces two cars a minute and uses upwards of five million components a day on its production line. The whole exercise is done on a just-in-time basis, parts are not stored in warehouses, they go straight in their container to the position on the production line where they are needed. More crucially, to avoid congestion, they have to arrive hours and sometimes minutes before they are needed. So any delay at customs on any of the five million components, almost as trivial as an official coming late back from lunch or leaving early to collect his or her child from school, could easily bring production to a halt.
 
Because this has the potential to destroy the profitability of the British car industry, there is brave talk about getting the components suppliers to set up plants in the UK, and the Government at one point seemed willing to subsidise such a move with taxpayers’ money. From a business point of view though it does not make sense. If more than half the components come from overseas, which they do, then it is cheaper and simpler to move the assembly factory out of Britain, not the component suppliers here.
 
And that is not the only problem: a detailed investigation this year by The Guardian reported that only 41% of what goes into the cars made in Britain is sourced here. This complicates the trade deals which are supposed to provide an alternative to the EU when we leave because these normally demand that what we export is in fact made in this country.
 
This is to prevent the UK trade deal being used as a Trojan horse by every other nation which could otherwise funnel their exports through us to gain access to these other markets. Thus the “rules of origin” for the EU’s deal with South Korea says specifically that 55% of the car parts must be sourced locally to qualify for free trade. A similar deal between us and South Korea would mean none of our cars were eligible.
 
Given cars are one of the few products we do export, this presents a bit of a challenge for International Trade Secretary Liam Fox and his department, which supposedly exists to make the deals on which Britain’s future will depend. Some wag suggested the grand plan was to take the other side out to lunch and persuade them to pretend that the EU counts as part of the UK in terms of sourcing. Why the other side would want to do this or accept it is less clear.
 
The brutal fact is that if we lose tariff-free access to the single market it will be disastrous for luxury British manufacturing.
 
Business knows this; the EU knows this; the rest of the world knows this — which is why so many of them have shelved all future plans to invest in the UK. But does the Government get it? Prime Minister Theresa May does not seem to but that is probably because she has spent the past 12 months refusing to talk to anyone who does not already agree with her and share her Fifties worldview.
 
In contrast, the ministers more closely involved with Brexit probably do get it, but don’t care or don’t want to admit it, because pointing out any of the disastrous consequences of Brexit will scupper their chances of being the next leader of the Conservative party.
 
This is the real reason business leaders have such withering contempt for the Government and are in despair about the future of business in the next few years, however cheerful they try to appear in public.
 
It takes more than last week’s publicity stunt of a meeting in Chevening to make a lasting impression on a Government where too many ministers appear willing to put self-interest and party interest before the national interest.
   https://www.standard.co.uk/business/anthony-hilton-why-brexit-will-sink-the-uk-s-car-industry-a3587236.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/business/anthony-hilton-why-brexit-will-sink-the-uk-s-car-industry-a3587236.html)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 January 2019, 06:45:28 pm
So here's a question for the Brexiteers.
If Parliament decides to pass a 'Norway style' deal, where the whole UK stays in the Customs Union and Single Market, but formally leaves the EU (and  makes lower £ contributions) - is that preferable to staying as an EU full member?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 28 January 2019, 08:23:37 pm


Quote
So why did they choose the UK over any other EU state in the first place.
The key thing for them was unrestricted single market access.  No more import restrictions and no more tariffs.  Other manufactures of course have chosen other EU countries.



I don’t know precisely why they choose the UK, but I certainly welcome it.  I do know we had skilled workers, and plenty of people in general looking for work.  I would guess there would be government incentives.  The stability of the pound would be attractive, and despite exporting much of the produce the strength of the pound, as a high proportion of the components are imported.  Further the guarantee of single union agreements was key.


What the Japanese did prove though without a doubt, was the problem with the old UK manufacturers was the management, not the workforce.  



But don’t think they are kidding when they say they will consider leaving if there is not a suitable BREXIT deal.  Leave they will.  And on top of the 10’s of thousands of jobs provided by these big manufacturers are 10’s of thousands of jobs in supporting industries.


Quote
What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.
REMAINERS do not want to see these jobs go.  The BREXITEERS however don’t give a shit.  Read again the most optimistic of the very very few economists that think BREXIT is a good idea.  Professor Minford states quite clearly that in the event of a NO DEAL BREXIT wage inequality will increase and UK manufacturing will all but cease to exist.


Quote
What is strange is that remainers seem to rejoice if a company says they are moving and if that move is damaging then better it is in their eyes.


So again, it’s what you want.  The rest of us would like to keep our jobs and our wealth thanks.


Or as I am begining to feel, the BREXITEERS don't have a fucking clue what they want, but they sure as fuck know how to get it.


Well I'll be jiggered. Something we agree on  :lol . Keep up the good work :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 28 January 2019, 08:49:29 pm
More on the mini crankshaft;
Quote
The crankshaft of the BMW Mini, which is the bit which transmits the power of the engine to the wheels, crosses the English Channel three times while the car is being made. It is cast in France; it goes to a plant in Warwickshire to be milled and finished. It is then shipped to BMW’s plant in Germany where the engine is assembled and comes back as part of that whole unit to be fitted into the car at the BMW plant near Oxford. When it is exported to Europe, as very many of these cars are, it crosses the Channel for a fourth time.
 
This is the reality of modern sophisticated manufacturing. Three channel crossings is actually quite modest for a component. Some go back and forth much more.
 
You could tell a similar story about Bentley, Jaguar Land Rover or about the wings of the Airbus aircraft which are made here (though the plane as a whole is assembled in Toulouse) about much of the output of Rolls-Royce or Bae Systems, the pillar of the UK defence industry.
 
We don’t have nearly enough world-class manufacturing to support our exports, but what we do have is heavily dependent on key components from the rest of the European Union. This business arrangement becomes totally uneconomic if we do not continue to have free trade but instead had to pay the common EU tariff of 10%. Most of the components industry operates on a profit margin of between 5% and 10% so it would become unprofitable overnight.
 
And if a supplier upped prices to compensate for the tariff it would be uncompetitive. There would also be a huge additional cost in time and paperwork because the component would be subject to customs checks each time it crossed the border.
 
Nissan’s Sunderland car plant produces two cars a minute and uses upwards of five million components a day on its production line. The whole exercise is done on a just-in-time basis, parts are not stored in warehouses, they go straight in their container to the position on the production line where they are needed. More crucially, to avoid congestion, they have to arrive hours and sometimes minutes before they are needed. So any delay at customs on any of the five million components, almost as trivial as an official coming late back from lunch or leaving early to collect his or her child from school, could easily bring production to a halt.
 
Because this has the potential to destroy the profitability of the British car industry, there is brave talk about getting the components suppliers to set up plants in the UK, and the Government at one point seemed willing to subsidise such a move with taxpayers’ money. From a business point of view though it does not make sense. If more than half the components come from overseas, which they do, then it is cheaper and simpler to move the assembly factory out of Britain, not the component suppliers here.
 
And that is not the only problem: a detailed investigation this year by The Guardian reported that only 41% of what goes into the cars made in Britain is sourced here. This complicates the trade deals which are supposed to provide an alternative to the EU when we leave because these normally demand that what we export is in fact made in this country.
 
This is to prevent the UK trade deal being used as a Trojan horse by every other nation which could otherwise funnel their exports through us to gain access to these other markets. Thus the “rules of origin” for the EU’s deal with South Korea says specifically that 55% of the car parts must be sourced locally to qualify for free trade. A similar deal between us and South Korea would mean none of our cars were eligible.
 
Given cars are one of the few products we do export, this presents a bit of a challenge for International Trade Secretary Liam Fox and his department, which supposedly exists to make the deals on which Britain’s future will depend. Some wag suggested the grand plan was to take the other side out to lunch and persuade them to pretend that the EU counts as part of the UK in terms of sourcing. Why the other side would want to do this or accept it is less clear.
 
The brutal fact is that if we lose tariff-free access to the single market it will be disastrous for luxury British manufacturing.
 
Business knows this; the EU knows this; the rest of the world knows this — which is why so many of them have shelved all future plans to invest in the UK. But does the Government get it? Prime Minister Theresa May does not seem to but that is probably because she has spent the past 12 months refusing to talk to anyone who does not already agree with her and share her Fifties worldview.
 
In contrast, the ministers more closely involved with Brexit probably do get it, but don’t care or don’t want to admit it, because pointing out any of the disastrous consequences of Brexit will scupper their chances of being the next leader of the Conservative party.
 
This is the real reason business leaders have such withering contempt for the Government and are in despair about the future of business in the next few years, however cheerful they try to appear in public.
 
It takes more than last week’s publicity stunt of a meeting in Chevening to make a lasting impression on a Government where too many ministers appear willing to put self-interest and party interest before the national interest.
   https://www.standard.co.uk/business/anthony-hilton-why-brexit-will-sink-the-uk-s-car-industry-a3587236.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/business/anthony-hilton-why-brexit-will-sink-the-uk-s-car-industry-a3587236.html)


The Economics of the madhouse. No wonder the roads are congested, and the air filthy and killing people. Bless the Eu eh
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 January 2019, 09:07:57 pm
The last time everything was manufactured from scratch in the same factory..... the British bike industry went down the toilet.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 07:36:07 pm
This seems to sum up where we are now. :lol
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyFxsYNUcAAfNTC.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 29 January 2019, 07:37:52 pm
This kind of sums up where you were earlier today :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 January 2019, 07:43:22 pm
So far all amendments that include a section to force the government to take no deal off the table have been thrown out. So much for MPs never allowing a NO Deal
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 07:56:39 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx8SjKoWwAElxsn.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 January 2019, 08:02:41 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dx8SjKoWwAElxsn.jpg)
Now that cartoon although not funny is cleaver with bananas for guns and the original snake oil - did everyone notice the Boris tumble weed ?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 08:05:11 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyGobHPU8AAjxSt.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grayo on 29 January 2019, 08:26:56 pm
The last time everything was manufactured from scratch in the same factory..... the British bike industry went down the toilet.
That's because the British bike industry kept all the profits and didn't reinvest anything in development and technology unlike the Japanese.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 08:42:24 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyGqDtqU0AAwuaH.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 January 2019, 08:49:59 pm
Using the cover of the latest vote Corbin has just offered to meet May  :eek after seeing the damage his refusal did to him in the last two weeks, what a disingenuous snake that Marxist is. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 January 2019, 08:56:54 pm

That's wiped the smug smirk off Vince Cable's face :lol .


The EU will still be determined to scupper it because they can't bear to lose us (our cash that is).


Not a bad night all things considered. Pleased with that :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 January 2019, 08:58:58 pm
So we now take this back to the EU to re negotiate. And if the refuse then they will be the ones left looking like Corbin was last week after refusing to meet May. I heard a staunch remainer on the radio earlier who said they now just want out with a no deal after witnessing the kind of people the EU have been over the last few months. I wonder by x-how many ? will feel the same if the EU again slams the door.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 January 2019, 09:00:43 pm
Looks like a losers vote is now dead and buried   :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 29 January 2019, 09:14:43 pm
The true meaning of Brexit  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 09:19:34 pm
 
Quote
So, we now take this back to the EU to re-negotiate. And if the refuse then they will be the ones left looking like Corbin was last week after refusing to meet May.
Remember this deal took two years to negotiate across 28 countries.


So now you are asking to knock out a new deal in two weeks.


The first question the EU 27 countries will ask – is what do you want?


So, what is it you want?


This just looks like running the clock down.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 09:21:10 pm
And remember May's deal is a withdrawl agreement.
It allows us to continue to trade as part of the single market while we negotiate our future relationship.
It's fuckin hopeless.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 January 2019, 09:24:27 pm

So we now take this back to the EU to re negotiate. And if the refuse then they will be the ones left looking like Corbin was last week after refusing to meet May.


Tusk and Macron immediately said NO.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 January 2019, 09:29:19 pm

Quote


This just looks like running the clock down.


 :guitar It's the final countdown :guitar (by Europe funnily enough  :lol )
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 09:29:50 pm
Peace in Northern Ireland is being put on a sacrificial altar by English nationalism.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 09:30:50 pm
Quote
Tusk and Macron immediately said NO.
They better not bloody budge one inch on the backstop.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 29 January 2019, 09:53:00 pm
Peace in Northern Ireland is being put on a sacrificial altar by English nationalism.
Quote
Tusk and Macron immediately said NO.
They better not bloody budge one inch on the backstop.

Two very conflicting statements right there.
It must be turmoil inside your head
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 10:03:33 pm
The backstop guarantees there will be no hard border in Northen Ireland.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 January 2019, 10:13:13 pm
Quote
So far all amendments that include a section to force the government to take no deal off the table have been thrown out. So much for MPs never allowing a NO Deal
You mean apart from the Vote that ruled out No Deal  :pokefun
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 January 2019, 10:17:32 pm
Quote
Using the cover of the latest vote Corbin has just offered to meet May  after seeing the damage his refusal did to him in the last two weeks, what a disingenuous snake that Marxist is.
.
No It's because she's had to rule out No Deal after the vote. Exactly what he has been asking for and made a condition of talks. Don't you actually follow the news?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 January 2019, 10:24:34 pm
Quote
They better not bloody budge one inch on the backstop
Absolutely! The EU need to show loyalty to member Ireland,  not the departing UK.
It will be interesting to see what May's 'alternative arrangements' for the border are. Patrolling unicorns no doubt.
The Irish border: there are 300 potential crossing points. If we leave the EU without a customs agreement there will have to be border controls. It would only take one man taking a pot shot at a customs post to bring back soldiers, tanks, barbed wire, helicopters – and worse.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 10:40:28 pm
Quote
Absolutely! The EU need to show loyalty to member Ireland,  not the departing UK.
Yes, yes,yes.
 Not just loyal to Eire, but to respect all the people right across the whole of Ireland, and to support the Good Friday Peace agreement, that absolutely and utterly shamefully the Tory government appears to contemplating ditching on the back of English Nationalism.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 January 2019, 10:45:05 pm
Time fae a giggle.  I love this.  And yes he is a cunt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX7VrnNuifw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX7VrnNuifw)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 January 2019, 11:35:54 pm
Quote
So far all amendments that include a section to force the government to take no deal off the table have been thrown out. So much for MPs never allowing a NO Deal
You mean apart from the Vote that ruled out No Deal  :pokefun
Wrong again, the first votes that were lost had in them ways to FORCE the government to rule out a no deal which is what I posted, then after I posted a vote was won on an amendment that only had within it an UNBINDING section to say the house was opposed to a no deal but they have NO power to stop one unlike the previous votes that WERE binding and were lost.
Do please try to keep up  ;) :pokefun

  Oh and it was won by 8 votes, hardly- as you keep saying that the MPs would NEVER allow a no deal brexit.News Flash --------- They just have-------.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 29 January 2019, 11:42:02 pm
Time fae a giggle.  I love this.  And yes he is a cunt.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX7VrnNuifw[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX7VrnNuifw[/url])

Yes that is funny - but what is not funny is Sam Delanys News Thing, a champagne Socialist if ever there was one who broadcasts on Russian propaganda TV.       
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 January 2019, 12:05:41 am
Quote
Yes that is funny - but what is not funny is Sam Delanys News Thing, a champagne Socialist if ever there was one who broadcasts on Russian propaganda TV. 
It's funny as foc.  What is funnier is that he is in fact a .............
I have to say I am all for a bit of champagne socialism - hic.
Though who the foc is Sam Delanys? 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 January 2019, 12:08:31 am
This cuts me up everytime I hear it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS5mVoqJpUk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS5mVoqJpUk)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 January 2019, 12:34:32 am
So, after two and a half years, and creating a last minute backbench amendment :
For a revised deal the EU says 'No'
For her previous deal, Parliament says 'No'
For No Deal, Parliament says 'No'
She's got nowhere to go. The 'stupid woman' is only concerned with keeping the Tory party together, and couldn't give a shit about what happens to the country :(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 January 2019, 12:39:56 am
Quote
Oh and it was won by 8 votes, hardly- as you keep saying that the MPs would NEVER allow a no deal brexit.News Flash --------- They just have-------.   
Er they haven't. A majority is a majority. They voted an amendment that "rejects the United Kingdom leaving the EuropeanUnion without a Withdrawal Agreement and a Framework for the Future Relationship". That's by 29th March. Only Yvette Cooper's amendment was binding, not even the Brady amendment. O and 'not binding' - that was also the 2016 referendum wasn't it  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 30 January 2019, 04:34:21 am
Quote
Oh and it was won by 8 votes, hardly- as you keep saying that the MPs would NEVER allow a no deal brexit.News Flash --------- They just have-------.   
Er they haven't. A majority is a majority.


That comment right there....So a majority vote suits you now :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 30 January 2019, 05:02:04 am
 :rollin :rollin :rollin https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1358751170955612&id=365076723656400 (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1358751170955612&id=365076723656400)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 January 2019, 08:40:03 am
I've never seen so many miserable looking Hipsters cycling to work on their Fixies as what there is this morning :eek . I wonder if that's still 'Ode To Joy' playing on their oversized £400 headphones or 'The Final Countdown'? :guitar :guitar :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 January 2019, 09:54:47 am

Time fae a giggle. 


That's the spirit :) . Humour will get you through it ;)

Altogether now Remainers..."Always look on the bright side of life" :guitar :guitar
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 January 2019, 10:16:32 am
Quote
That comment right there....So a majority vote suits you now

Yep, if you admit 52% is 'hardly' a majority  :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 January 2019, 10:21:43 am

I like champagne socialism Champagne Socialism = champagne for the many
Champagne Conservativism = this champagne is for me only
 :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 January 2019, 11:06:02 am

Champagne Socialism most definitely isn't Champagne for the many.


It refers to a section of the middle class who outwardly advocate socialist ideals whilst not practicing it in any way, shape or form themselves. Their Champagne isn't for sharing. Another term for them would be hypocrites.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 January 2019, 11:57:19 am

O and 'not binding' - that was also the 2016 referendum wasn't it  :)


Have you tried writing to your MP about it?.


That may be a good place to start :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Oldgit on 30 January 2019, 05:38:28 pm
The Labour party is full of Champagne Socialists--don't do as I do--do as we say--Foc off.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 January 2019, 06:26:40 pm
 
Quote
The 'stupid woman' is only concerned with keeping the Tory party together, and couldn't give a shit about what happens to the country :(

Somebody else did that before her.  David Cameron or somebody?
 
Quote
That comment right there....So a majority vote suits you now :rolleyes
The Westminster parliament is a majority parliament.  The make up of the parliament does not directly relate to the how the public voted in a general election.  That a government cannot get it’s business through is most unusual.  And this government holds the record for the biggest defeat in the history of the parliament.  :rolleyes
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 January 2019, 06:29:12 pm
Quote
I like champagne socialism Champagne Socialism = champagne for the many
Champagne Conservativism = this champagne is for me only
 :)
 
Yes indeed.  Champagne for all, breakfast, lunch, dinner and perhaps a few in the evening too.  I’m all for it.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 January 2019, 08:41:12 pm
Quote
Champagne Socialism most definitely isn't Champagne for the many.
It refers to a section of the middle class who outwardly advocate socialist ideals whilst not practicing it in any way, shape or form themselves. Their Champagne isn't for sharing. Another term for them would be hypocrites.
I know what it refers to....... by people who don't understand socialism  :)
Anyway having just been to a Wetherspoons, it's apparently all going to be replaced by Australian sparkling chardonnay. So everyone's in the shit  :o
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 12:21:58 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyMNTeTWoAE1cST.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 12:23:02 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyGo_YMU0AAtxFx.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 12:24:10 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyMPNmuWwAI9Dhy.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 12:25:02 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyMPH1zXcAEIKKq.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 12:26:05 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyMP7b7XcAA876I.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 12:27:49 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyMONu1X0AAsXY3.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 31 January 2019, 05:56:04 am
Quote
That comment right there....So a majority vote suits you now

Yep, if you admit 52% is 'hardly' a majority  :b



I've never known a 52% minority before?
And if you happened to be doing an Italian Job and end up in a coach hanging over the side of a cliff, i think that extra 4% would suddenly really count.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 31 January 2019, 10:16:50 am
Quote
I've never known a 52% minority before?
Indeed. Like the majority of MPs who voted out No Deal, which needs to be respected  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 31 January 2019, 04:21:25 pm
im afraid I have no respect for any MPs whatsoever, but then again they very obviously  feel exactly the same about me to be fair..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 31 January 2019, 04:31:03 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyMONu1X0AAsXY3.jpg:large)
Well that is exactly the attitude of the EU to all the included states so long as they are not Germany or France. Thank you for posting.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 31 January 2019, 07:03:55 pm

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyMONu1X0AAsXY3.jpg:large)
Well that is exactly the attitude of the EU to all the included states so long as they are not Germany or France. Thank you for posting.


Yeah I was thinking that succinctly sums up both the EU and Junckers. Thanks. Great cartoon that :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 07:14:09 pm
So, it looks like May has called Barnier bluff.
Problem is he wasn't bluffing. :lol
One day or so into this re-negotiating fortnight and it looks to be over.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 31 January 2019, 08:20:16 pm

Here's the EU and the Remainers preferred outcomes...


1) Brexit reversed and the UK remains in the EU, suitably humbled and humiliated.


2) The UK leaves under the worst possible terms and the economy suffers maximum damage as punishment and retribution for having the audacity to leave.


3) Err thats it :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 09:14:29 pm
Quote
Here's the EU and the Remainers preferred outcomes...
 
1) Brexit reversed and the UK remains in the EU, suitably humbled and humiliated. 2) The UK leaves under the worst possible terms and the economy suffers maximum damage as punishment and retribution for having the audacity to leave.
3) Err thats it :rolleyes
Right now, a NO DEAL BREXIT is still a possibility.  The Tory government is still trying to run the clock down.  The EU single market, as you know, accounts for 25% of global GDP, we are members of that market and enjoy quota free, tariff free trade with the 27 other countries in the EU as if we were all one country.


In the event of a NO DEAL BREXIT we will exit the single market.  We will overnight become a third-party country.  All goods crossing between us and the EU will have to have the appropriate customs paperwork, taxes and tariffs will have to be paid.  Our currency, the pound will collapse, and our economy will nose dive.  It is simply the reality of a NO DEAL BREXIT.



Quite as to how, any of that, is somehow the fault of those who voted against such self-harm and mayhem, is frankly, absolutely and utterly beyond me.


And then there is the nightmare of the Irish border.


You want a NO DEAL border YamFazFan.  This is what you want.   So perhaps you can tell us how the border between the UK and the EU will be policed in Ireland?  I’d love to know.


Maybe what you are trying to tell us, or admitting to, is that reality is the fault of us REMAINERS, and it is our fault that we aren’t able to deliver you over to the cloud cuckoo land in which all – dunno what you want but know how to get it – BREXITEERS desperately want to be transposed to.



 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 31 January 2019, 09:32:48 pm

I don't want No Deal. I want them to agree a deal. But the  EU are being deliberately awkward and uncompromising in helping the UK to achieve that.


They're hoping that all the palatable and workable options are closed off and that remaining is all that's left.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 09:45:09 pm
 
Quote
I don't want No Deal. I want them to agree a deal.
What! :eek :eek :eek
Then what is it that you want?


Quote
But the  EU are being deliberately awkward and uncompromising in helping the UK to achieve that.
No the UK wants a divorce from the relationship it spent some 45 years building.  We had a deal, we had the best possible deal we could have.


The EU has spent the last 2 years negotiating with Ms May and have agreed a Withdrawal Act.  That allows us continued single market access while we negotiate our exit from the EU. 



May cannot get her Withdrawal Act through parliament.  Her Tory party objects to the protection that it affords the Irish Border.


Quote
They're hoping that all the palatable and workable options are closed off and that remaining is all that's left.
I hope so.  As we all know the best deal is the deal we have.  However I suspect we are leaving one way or another.


But meanwhile yeah, please do tell us what it is you want..................
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 31 January 2019, 09:46:04 pm
I think its fair to say a lot of us leavers don't want no deal, but we do want it on the table to give us leverage. Whatever remainers say, the EU wont want it either, its just who blinks first :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 31 January 2019, 09:59:29 pm

And then there is the nightmare of the Irish border.

How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 10:00:18 pm
 
Quote
I think its fair to say a lot of us leavers don't want no deal, but we do want it on the table to give us leverage.
So again, what is it that you want?
Quote
EU wont want it either, its just who blinks first :)
My opinion is the EU will not blink.  Their priority is the integrity of the single market.  Secondly, they will do everything within their powers to protect one of it’s members from conflict on it’s border.



And they won't blink because they know as painful as NO DEAL will be for them, it won't hurt a fraction as much as it will us, plus in the long term they will still have the security and stability of the single market.


And you know what the UK is doing in contrast.  It’s gambling.  Not just it’s economy, but it’s gambling peace in Ireland, and peace across the UK.

 
Absolutely and utterly shameful. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 10:04:38 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyRSs9ZX0AY-I29.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 10:14:01 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9OUvYsvtq8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9OUvYsvtq8)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 31 January 2019, 11:02:40 pm
Quote
I don't want No Deal.
A few weeks ago all you Leavers said you wanted No Deal! Nothing else would do. O yes you did, the evidence is on this thread.
Does that mean people are allowed to change their minds on Brexit?  :pokefun
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 31 January 2019, 11:24:17 pm

sorry I should have been more specific.
I would prefer a deal, but one that gives us much more than the one the EU has agreed with Teresa May.. Failing that, I would prefer no deal as a second option.. What would be the point of keeping your powder dry if your not prepared to use it?
If it came to no deal, then of course it will be tough...but aren't most things that are worth having worth fighting for? Hasn't that been a huge part of our history and identity as a nation?

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 31 January 2019, 11:25:43 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyMONu1X0AAsXY3.jpg:large)

and yup, that cartoon sums it all up brilliantly. And I for one am done with sucking up that fellers piss..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 11:45:19 pm
Quote
A few weeks ago all you Leavers said you wanted No Deal! Nothing else would do. O yes you did, the evidence is on this thread.
Does that mean people are allowed to change their minds on Brexit?  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/pokefun.gif[/url])

Yup, that certainly seemed to be the case.
Quote
I would prefer a deal, but one that gives us much more than the one the EU has agreed with Teresa May.

And that is?
Quote
What would be the point of keeping your powder dry if your not prepared to use it?

The problem is where the barrel is pointing.  And that cannot be changed.
Quote
If it came to no deal, then of course it will be tough.

Yup tougher than the financial crises of 2008.  UK industry devastated, millions on the brew, food banks everywhere - well once we get our supplies sorted.  And for what?
Quote
but aren't most things that are worth having worth fighting for?

Perhaps you could tell us what 'we' are figthing for? 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 January 2019, 11:47:37 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyFzMLcVAAA2y-R.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 February 2019, 12:16:36 am
 So foc-u BREXITEERS want to leave the EU, but they dunno why.


They wanted out, just get foccing out, they didn’t wanna deal, they just wanted out.


Now they wanna deal, but not May’s deal.  They wanna deal.  Just they dunno what sort of deal they want, something more than May’s deal.


But most of all, they might not know what they want, but they are absolutely certain it’s worth fighting for.


This is what makes Britain so fuckin Great!  Fuck yeah!
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 01 February 2019, 01:09:27 am
Billboard campaign reminds voters of MPs' Brexit promises  (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/16/billboard-campaign-reminds-voters-of-mps-brexit-promises)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 February 2019, 05:28:59 am


Quote
I don't want No Deal. I want them to agree a deal.
What! :eek :eek :eek
Then what is it that you want?



At the time No Deal appeared achievable. Since then pretty much everyone is agreed that it ain't gonna happen.


Parliament has voted to reject No Deal.


If the only alternative is remaining, then Deal is far preferable.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 February 2019, 05:34:00 am

Quote
I don't want No Deal.
A few weeks ago all you Leavers said you wanted No Deal! Nothing else would do. O yes you did, the evidence is on this thread.


No Deal is no longer achievable. Parliament will stop it happening.


Deal is far preferable to Remain if that's the only other alternative.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 01 February 2019, 06:43:05 am
im afraid I have no respect for any MPs whatsoever, but then again they very obviously  feel exactly the same about me to be fair..


 :agree
They're similar to trying to pick a winner in a horse race, you eliminate the really shit ones first then work your way backwards until you're left with one likely candidate.
You don't have to particularly like them but they appear to be the likeliest winner.
Then once the race is off they fall at the first fence.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 February 2019, 07:46:12 am
Quote
I don't want No Deal.
A few weeks ago all you Leavers said you wanted No Deal! Nothing else would do. O yes you did, the evidence is on this thread.
Does that mean people are allowed to change their minds on Brexit?  :pokefun
Calm down, calm down.
I said most recently on 25th January in this thread that 'No Deal' wasn't going to happen.
I said on 28th January that I hoped May's deal would get through Parliament.
If you still want to leave and No Deal isn't a realistic option, then Deal it is. Anything other than Remain.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 February 2019, 07:49:39 am
Quote
I don't want No Deal. I want them to agree a deal.
What! :eek :eek :eek


Calm down, calm down.
I said most recently on 25th January in this thread that 'No Deal' wasn't going to happen.
I said on 28th January that I hoped May's deal would get through Parliament.
If you still want to leave and No Deal isn't a realistic option, then Deal it is. Anything other than Remain.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 February 2019, 10:18:20 am
Quote
Calm down, calm down.I said most recently on 25th January in this thread that 'No Deal' wasn't going to happen.I said on 28th January that I hoped May's deal would get through Parliament.If you still want to leave and No Deal isn't a realistic option, then Deal it is. Anything other than Remain.

So you've changed your mind. Excellent! You're in favour of a 2nd Referendum. Allow everybody else the same option.  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 February 2019, 10:33:03 am

Quote
Calm down, calm down.I said most recently on 25th January in this thread that 'No Deal' wasn't going to happen.I said on 28th January that I hoped May's deal would get through Parliament.If you still want to leave and No Deal isn't a realistic option, then Deal it is. Anything other than Remain.

So you've changed your mind. Excellent! You're in favour of a 2nd Referendum. Allow everybody else the same option.  :)



Is another referendum required in order to deliver Brexit via either Deal or No Deal?.


You'd best write to the government ASAP to let them know the error of their ways ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 February 2019, 10:42:14 am

So you've changed your mind. Excellent!


It's become clear that No Deal is a now a non-runner. Didn't you watch/read about the amendment vote in the Commons the on Tuesday?.


If you read back through my posts you'll see I'd declared No Deal dead a while before that.


The second best option is Deal, which I'm now hoping for.


Do try to keep up :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 February 2019, 11:12:00 am
Quote
It's become clear that No Deal is a now a non-runner. Didn't you watch/read about the amendment vote in the Commons the on Tuesday?.
If you read back through my posts you'll see I'd declared No Deal dead a while before that.
The second best option is Deal, which I'm now hoping for.
Do try to keep up

Of course I'm keeping up, very much so   :) . I told you No Deal wasn't going to happen well before you changed your mind. :b  What you need to do is let other people change their minds too. The best options are clearly
1. Remain
2. 2nd Referendum
3. Customs Union and Single Market for whole UK
4. DUP can foc off and not hold the rest of the country to ransom
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 February 2019, 11:40:15 am

It's not a case of changing my mind.


'No Deal'is a dead duck but I still want to leave, so 'Deal' is a compromise.


I realise compromise is an alien word to the arch Remainers.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 February 2019, 12:22:09 pm

Just to remind you of some of your previous posts  :D



29th Dec '' It suits me fine if she loses the vote, we'll just come out with no deal at the end of March ''
17th Dec '' When I voted Leave I assumed it meant a No Deal type exit.''

No Deal - > Deal = changing your mind.
I'll compromise. No 3 full Customs Union + Single Market. Deal?  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 February 2019, 01:51:37 pm

No one is going to come out of this with everything that they expected at the beginning, or even what they expected up until quite recently.


I've come to accept that leaving with No Deal is almost impossible. I have to say almost because it's theoretically still on the table and is the default situation. But to advocate No Deal alone to the exclusion of all else is flogging a dead horse.


If that means I've 'changed my mind' on how we leave, then yes I've changed my mind.


I haven't changed my mind on the original question that was on the ballot paper. Leaving with a deal is still Leave.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 February 2019, 02:44:16 pm
Fair enough. I hope other Leavers think the same as you. Some see any kind of deal with the EU as a betrayal.


I'm starting to give up on Remain, however much I would like it to happen. With the two big parties talking  :eek  and neither of them supporting a 2nd Referendum, it's not going to happen, whatever opinion polls suggest the people now think. At the end of the day politicians are always in charge.


So my preference is for damage limitation now. A good close deal with the EU so that business can get on with things and EU residents can come and go as we /they please. Sort of Norway plus. Perhaps we could join the EU at a later date  :)


Apart from that Remain 'till I die   :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 February 2019, 04:23:28 pm
3. Customs Union and Single Market for whole UK
Not Single Market. That entails so much compromise as to make Brexit virtually meaningless.
As for the Customs Union, peace has got to be maintained as the number one priority.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 February 2019, 04:31:47 pm
Trouble is, Single Market includes Financial Services, Insurance etc and without that access across Europe we are stuffed






RIP Jeremy Hardy. You made us all smile. You made us all think.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 February 2019, 07:31:11 pm
 
Quote
At the time No Deal appeared achievable.
What do you mean achievable?  You only achieve NO DEAL by failing to get a DEAL.  OK, maybe such a level of incompetence takes some doing, perhaps it would be an achievement.
 
Quote
29th Dec '' It suits me fine if she loses the vote, we'll just come out with no deal at the end of March ''
17th Dec '' When I voted Leave I assumed it meant a No Deal type exit.''
That’s because they voted for BREXIT thinking the country would be 350 million a week better off, and it would all happen the day after the vote. 



 
Quote
I haven't changed my mind on the original question that was on the ballot paper. Leaving with a deal is still Leave.
May I remind you what May’s deal is – it is a withdrawal agreement.  It is not a settled position.  After the 31st of march under May’s deal we are no longer members of the EU.  However we will continue to have single market access to allow us to trade seamlessly with the EU whilst we negotiate our future position – ie a trade deal with the EU.  That means we will follow the rules of the market, but we will no longer be involved in setting the rules.  Effectively on the first of April 2019 under May’s deal we cease to be a truly sovereign state as we are right now today. 



Now if it took us two years to get into this mess just trying to draw up a withdrawal agreement – ie the easy bit, how long do you think it will take us to renegotiate agriculture, fisheries and food, business and competition, customs and tax etc etc.  It will never happen, not within two years.  And you will not be able to do a trade deal with any other country until that lot and 100 other wee matters are sorted out.


So you end up in the backstop, held in a customs union, run by the EU.  Taking EU rules.   The backstop is there as we all know to protect the peace in Ireland and the UK.  You cannot leave the customs union until the EU is satisfied that you have satisfactorily negotiated your way out of all the EU treaties we spent the last 45 years negotiating our way into.


Meanwhile the UK will haemorrhage business nervous of loosing EU access and trade, the pound will continue to slide, inflation will rise, nobody will invest in the UK as they will have no idea of what our long-term trading strategy is.  Therefore, mass unemployment will follow.
 

 
 

 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 01 February 2019, 07:32:45 pm

And then there is the nightmare of the Irish border.

How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ?


or Switzerland?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 February 2019, 07:35:48 pm
 The only positive thing I can say about May’s deal is;


Well after two years of trying to negotiate our way out of all the treaties and rules we have painstakingly negotiated our way into over 45 odd years.  And after another two years of our parliament unable to do any other business bar BREXIT, and indeed when we find ourselves stuck in the backstop with no way out...............


Well maybe, 2 to 3 years down the road, we will understand we were better off as full members of the EU.  Which is what we’ll end up doing to get out of the backstop.


I certainly hope so. :)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 01 February 2019, 08:08:58 pm
MESSAGE FOR THE EU- Other countries cope and prosper outside the EU, why can't we?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 February 2019, 08:49:06 pm
Quote
MESSAGE FOR THE EU- Other countries cope and prosper outside the EU, why can't we?
Message for BREXITEERS – why do you want to ignore the biggest single open seamless trading market in the world.  A market that we have built, promoted and prospered from for some 45 years.   A market that accounts for 25% of global GDP and is right on our doorstep.


Why do you want to erect barriers to doing business with your immediate neighbours?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 01 February 2019, 09:20:10 pm

Quote
MESSAGE FOR THE EU- Other countries cope and prosper outside the EU, why can't we?
Message for BREXITEERS – why do you want to ignore the biggest single open seamless trading market in the world.  A market that we have built, promoted and prospered from for some 45 years.   A market that accounts for 25% of global GDP and is right on our doorstep.
 
That is the ONLY bit I want to keep.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: vinnyb on 01 February 2019, 09:45:27 pm
Why do you want to erect barriers to doing business with your immediate neighbours?

Isn't that exactly what the SNP have been wanting to do for years?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 February 2019, 09:54:17 pm
Quote
Isn't that exactly what the SNP have been wanting to do for years?
Nope.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 01 February 2019, 10:28:44 pm
Quote
MESSAGE FOR THE EU- Other countries cope and prosper outside the EU, why can't we?
Message for BREXITEERS – why do you want to ignore the biggest single open seamless trading market in the world.  A market that we have built, promoted and prospered from for some 45 years.   A market that accounts for 25% of global GDP and is right on our doorstep.


Why do you want to erect barriers to doing business with your immediate neighbours?

because I don't like living under their jackboot any more than you like living under the English one ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 February 2019, 11:01:52 pm
Quote
or Switzerland?
Switzerland isn't in the EU....... but it's in the Customs Union, the Single Market, EFTA and Schengen. All of which May has refused for the UK.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 February 2019, 11:07:46 pm
Quote
That is the ONLY bit I want to keep.
But the UK can't just pick and choose the bits that suit them. Which is exactly what the EU have been telling May all along.
What you can't also do, is agree a deal then come back at the 59th minute wanting to change it!

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 01 February 2019, 11:21:18 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyMONu1X0AAsXY3.jpg:large)
This cartoon you posted is proof that you really don't get it, you posted it as an anti brexit cartoon but totally failed to understand how leavers would see it.
Let me try and help you. Take your loathing of the English and the hatread and contempt you so readily spew out against "Westminster" - actually doesn't matter to you which government sits there. Unfortunately for you Vladimir already has a job.

 Well a lot of your reasons and thinking are the same as a lot of leavers but instead they are directed at the way the EU is run. Strange how a scots independence voter does not want to be ruled from "westminster"  all of 400 miles away but perfectly happy to take rules from Brussels 700 miles away.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 01 February 2019, 11:28:28 pm
Quote
That is the ONLY bit I want to keep.
But the UK can't just pick and choose the bits that suit them.
What you can't also do, is agree a deal then come back at the 59th minute wanting to change it!

Quote
But the UK can't just pick and choose the bits that suit them
Why not.
Quote
What you can't also do, is agree a deal then come back at the 59th minute wanting to change it!
Why not.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 February 2019, 11:42:09 pm
Because a 'deal' involves 2 sides, and the other side won't let her :)


O and there's 27 of them
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 February 2019, 11:49:29 pm
 
Quote
because I don't like living under their jackboot any more than you like living under the English one ;)
Ogri, the jackboot is used as a symbol of cruel or authoritarian behaviour or rule.  Neither of which could be attributed to the EU or the UK.  The use of such language, whether directed at England or the EU, is offensive, uncalled for and unhelpful. 
Quote
This cartoon you posted is proof that you really don't get it, you posted it as an anti brexit cartoon but totally failed to understand how leavers would see it.
No, it just made me laugh.   All those wee references that come together to make it funny.  Peter Brookes, the cartoonist sketches for both left and right leaning publications.
Quote
Let me try and help you.
No, no, no, please fazersharp, do not even try and go there.
Quote
Take your loathing of the English and the hatread and contempt you so readily spew out against "Westminster" - actually doesn't matter to you which government sits there. Unfortunately for you Vladimir already has a job.
Jesus you can't help yourself, can you?  I have no loathing of the English.  I have as a Scot had decades of government I did not vote for, governments that my country did not vote for.  I wish England was different, but it isn’t, and it’s actually becoming increasingly extreme, so much so it even wants to walk away from the EU.  England is swinging hard to the right, the extreme right.


Quote
Well a lot of your reasons and thinking are the same as a lot of leavers but instead they are directed at the way the EU is run.  Strange how a scots independence voter does not want to be ruled from "westminster"  all of 400 miles away but perfectly happy to take rules from Brussels 700 miles away.
No absolutely not.  England is increasingly suffering from nationalism.  Scotland simply wants political independance, but within a wider economic union.


But then I understand something that you clearly do not.  I understand the difference between economic union and sovereign union.  Nor am I, unlike you, an isolationist.
 
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: J_Dub on 02 February 2019, 08:19:13 am

And then there is the nightmare of the Irish border.

How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ?


or Switzerland?

In order to trade with the EU Switzerland pays into the EU, has had to adopt EU laws and takes EU immigrants.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 02 February 2019, 10:42:37 am
  Scotland simply wants political independance
 
You will not be getting that in the EU.Since the very concept of the EU it has progressively evolved towards a political union or in EU speak - ‘institutional convergence’ with European Union member states.It starts with the expansion of the processes of economic integration, but that can only go so far without the need for ever more political integration with the ultimate goal of a Europen superstate with the old countries now just "provinces".
From what you say you want I doesn't make sense that you want to stay in the EU. I think I know your plan --- to ride on the back of remaining in the EU to get your scots indi and then sponge off the EU for a while (after all they will be flush with cash after they trousered our £39b) then at a later date when the cash drys up and the political union intensifys you then remove yourself from the EU.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 February 2019, 05:46:40 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA on 01 February 2019, 08:49:06 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg291744.html#msg291744[/url])<blockquote>Quote<blockquote>MESSAGE FOR THE EU- Other countries cope and prosper outside the EU, why can't we?</blockquote> Message for BREXITEERS – why do you want to ignore the biggest single open seamless trading market in the world.  A market that we have built, promoted and prospered from for some 45 years.   A market that accounts for 25% of global GDP and is right on our doorstep.
 
</blockquote>That is the ONLY bit I want to keep.

If you wanted to REMAIN in the single market, then why did you vote for BREXIT knowing that you were putting our single market membership at risk.  It is absolutely essential for this countries future, and in particular for us ordinary punters in this country, that the UK continues to be part of the single market.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 February 2019, 06:01:23 pm
Quote
And then there is the nightmare of the Irish border.
 
How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 

The EU has no shared border with Brazil.
 
Quote
Quote from: fazersharp on 31 January 2019, 09:59:29 PM
 
    Quote from: VNA on 31 January 2019, 09:14:29 PM
 
 
        And then there is the nightmare of the Irish border.
 
    How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ?
 
 
 
or Switzerland?
Switzerland, as far as I am aware, has not suffered long term murderous occupation and dictatorship at the hands of an imperialist nation.  Nor in regaining it’s sovereignty, and indeed dignity, has it had to give up a chunk of it’s territory over to British plantationists. 



If the UK leaves the single market and customs union there will have to be a hard border between Northern Ireland and The Republic of Ireland.  Putting a hard border back inside Ireland will, more than likely, result in most serious unrest. The Westminster parliament has a responsibility to uphold The Good Friday Agreement, and ensure continuing peace in Ireland and the UK as a whole.  Leaving the customs union must not happen.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 02 February 2019, 06:02:50 pm


If you wanted to REMAIN in the single market, then why did you vote for BREXIT knowing that you were putting our single market membership at risk.  It is absolutely essential for this countries future, and in particular for us ordinary punters in this country, that the UK continues to be part of the single market.


Because I don't want all the other stuff that go's with it.Like DRL's and straight bananas and low powered vacuums and paying £350million a week when that money could fund the health service instead. :rolleyes 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 February 2019, 06:07:14 pm
 https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/02/nissan-x-trail-uk-brexit (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/02/nissan-x-trail-uk-brexit)
 This is worrying.


Nissan is refusing to deny rumours that it is about to reverse it’s plans to build the X-Trail in Sunderland.


The big question is – is this down to a current global downturn in the car market – or is the X-Trail going to now be built in France to guarantee single market access.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 02 February 2019, 06:07:28 pm

How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 
Quote
The EU has no shared border with Brazil.

   
Oh yes it has-- shows that you don't know anything other than what you google - try googling it and find out
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 February 2019, 06:16:49 pm
 DRL’s – even with a NO DEAL I am afraid you will still be left bitching about DRL’s – they are here to stay.


Bananas – Legislation relating to bananas, ie standard grading of bananas was introduced by the EU at the request of the fruit and veg industry.


low powered vacuums – The EU has a rolling plan if legislation to ensure that the goods we buy in the shops are fit for purpose and efficient.  My 800w Miele vacuum cleaner is the most powerful vacuum cleaner I have ever owned by a country mile.  I hardly ever even use it at full power cos it just tries to suck the whole bloody carpet up.  It is at least ten times more powerful than the 2500w Zanusi piece of junk it replaced.  We need more fit for purpose legislation – not less.


The 350 million quid a week lie.  You still believe that?


These are your reasons for wanting trashing our economy?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 02 February 2019, 06:56:16 pm


How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 
Quote
The EU has no shared border with Brazil.

   
Oh yes it has-- shows that you don't know anything other than what you google - try googling it and find out


I've googled. It's true, it does :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 02 February 2019, 07:02:43 pm


How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 
Quote
The EU has no shared border with Brazil.

   
Oh yes it has-- shows that you don't know anything other than what you google - try googling it and find out


I've googled. It's true, it does :eek
Told you !
Proof as I say that VNA knows nothing other than the legislation relating to bananas.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 02 February 2019, 07:06:00 pm
  I hardly ever even use it at full power cos it just tries to suck the whole bloody carpet up.
There he go's again proving his champagne socialist credentials with his Carpet     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 02 February 2019, 07:12:29 pm
I, like other Leavers on here, likely still wish to trade with the EU, and the rest of the world. The EU now is not what it once was, a confederation of trading nations, a common market, beneficial in principle to its members. But the EU has changed, and will continue to change, becoming ever more influential in domestic affairs. It wishes to have its own army, but under who's control. It wishes to have its own foreign policy, but again under who's direction. And what if member states do not agree with the direction taken by the foreign policies, or its army. I can still remember the scenes in Spanish cities, scenes of mass rejoicing every time a BRITISH serviceman was killed in the Falklands war. I, like others have no objection to free movement of people from Europe, but object to the masses of economic migrants/terrorists currently being relocated into Europe by the EU, with no backgrounds, no checks, and little hope of integrating. Many will simply slip into the black economy, or into crime, because they are incapable of integrating, and want only to impose their culture and lifestyle upon us. I don't not want the political interference. I want to be able to elect the government of the United Kingdom, and know that that is where the responsibility lies. I do not want the United Kingdom electorate to elect a government that has committed to policies of public spending, only to find that the UNELECTED tells said government that it cannot implement those policies as they do not agree with them. Just like Italy, Greece, and Spain, with possibly Portugal not far away too.

I don't expect, or particularly want you to reply, I respect your views but cannot agree with them. I said in an earlier post that the EU is like a cancer, slowly spreading, ever weakening resistance by doshing out cash to potential dissenters. That is still my view. I'm not debating it.

As for right wing government, if that's what people wish for , then they'll vote for it. Certainly, a political party that campaigns on strongly tackling crime, upping defence spending, cleaning up the streets, clamping down severely on unlicensed/illegal/untaxed vehicles/ensuring all people and business's with earnings in the UK pay the appropriate level of taxation/deporting illegal immigrants, would likely win an election
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 02 February 2019, 07:37:38 pm

  I hardly ever even use it at full power cos it just tries to suck the whole bloody carpet up.
There he go's again proving his champagne socialist credentials with his Carpet   



 :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 February 2019, 07:43:40 pm
 
Quote
It wishes to have its own army,
Nope it’s never going to happen.
Quote
It wishes to have its own foreign policy, but again under who's direction.
It can only take a position on foreign affairs if all 27(28 maybe) states are in agreement.
Quote
And what if member states do not agree with the direction taken by the foreign policies, or its army.
It will never have an army, and the EU is it’s 27 (28) member states.  That is what it is.
Quote
I can still remember the scenes in Spanish cities, scenes of mass rejoicing every time a BRITISH serviceman was killed in the Falklands war.
Let us not forget that Great Britain raped and pillaged it’s way round the globe.  Surpise surpise, GB ain't the most popular brand round the globe by a country mile.

 
Quote
I, like others have no objection to free movement of people from Europe, but object to the masses of economic migrants/terrorists currently being relocated into Europe by the EU, with no backgrounds, no checks, and little hope of integrating.
I object to British imperialism.  I object to illegal wars.  I objected to the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, as I did Iraq and objected also to Cameron’s dumb war in Libya.


I object to Britain selling arms to the Wahhabist state of Saudi, who then blow up school buses full of children.  Do not forget that the birth place and major sponsor of the Wahhabist fundamentalist Islamic movement is Saudi Arabia.  It is Saudi Arabia that gave us al-Qaeda then the Islamic State.  Saudi are important allies of ours you know.


I object this countries proxy war in Syria.  Our foreign policy has displaced many millions around the globe in recent years.  We destroyed their countries, we fed the Wahhabist monster, we bombed their wedding parties, and now we throw our hands up in horror as these masses seek sanctuary from the hell we created for them.


 
Quote
and want only to impose their culture and lifestyle upon us. I don't not want the political interference.
You ever heard of The British Empire?  You want a discussion on imposing culture, do you?  Do you think the people of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya, just to name three welcomed our political interference?  When will the UK give up it’s dirty filthy imperialistic ways.


Quote
As for right wing government, if that's what people wish for , then they'll vote for it.
Yes, England voted for it and the now UK has it.  That’s why we are in this foccing mess, it’s why ordinary people have paid the price for the financial crises of 2008, and it’s why we now heading into recession. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 February 2019, 07:52:28 pm
 Meanwhile back to BREXIT.


We need to wait and see what the reason behind this NISSAN decision is.  Is manufacture of the X-Trail not coming to Europe because of the current global slowdown in car sales, or is it simply that NISSAN have decided to build it in France.


I’d say if NISSAN announce the X-Trail is moving to France, you will be looking at the beginning of the end of major manufacturing in the UK.


Happy BREXIT foccers.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 02 February 2019, 09:21:14 pm
I, like other Leavers on here, likely still wish to trade with the EU, and the rest of the world. The EU now is not what it once was, a confederation of trading nations, a common market, beneficial in principle to its members. But the EU has changed, and will continue to change, becoming ever more influential in domestic affairs. It wishes to have its own army, but under who's control. It wishes to have its own foreign policy, but again under who's direction. And what if member states do not agree with the direction taken by the foreign policies, or its army. I can still remember the scenes in Spanish cities, scenes of mass rejoicing every time a BRITISH serviceman was killed in the Falklands war. I, like others have no objection to free movement of people from Europe, but object to the masses of economic migrants/terrorists currently being relocated into Europe by the EU, with no backgrounds, no checks, and little hope of integrating. Many will simply slip into the black economy, or into crime, because they are incapable of integrating, and want only to impose their culture and lifestyle upon us. I don't not want the political interference. I want to be able to elect the government of the United Kingdom, and know that that is where the responsibility lies. I do not want the United Kingdom electorate to elect a government that has committed to policies of public spending, only to find that the UNELECTED tells said government that it cannot implement those policies as they do not agree with them. Just like Italy, Greece, and Spain, with possibly Portugal not far away too.

I don't expect, or particularly want you to reply, I respect your views but cannot agree with them. I said in an earlier post that the EU is like a cancer, slowly spreading, ever weakening resistance by doshing out cash to potential dissenters. That is still my view. I'm not debating it.

As for right wing government, if that's what people wish for , then they'll vote for it. Certainly, a political party that campaigns on strongly tackling crime, upping defence spending, cleaning up the streets, clamping down severely on unlicensed/illegal/untaxed vehicles/ensuring all people and business's with earnings in the UK pay the appropriate level of taxation/deporting illegal immigrants, would likely win an election

my thoughts exactly ta mate ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Dynspud on 02 February 2019, 10:36:25 pm
Couldn't have put it better myself!!
And I'm pretty sure it's for these reasons that most leavers voted to leave in the first place.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 February 2019, 10:53:45 pm
 One thing that has truck me in the last few months is the absolute weakness of the argument from the BREXITEERS.  People who voted for BREXIT can’t actually tell you why they voted for BREXIT, at least not in real substantial factual political terms.  Or if they can, to some degree, it’s daylight running lamps, bent bananas and 350 million a week more for the NHS – one non-issue and two lies there then.


Increasingly what we now hear is nationalism.  English Nationalism.  Patriotic fighting talk.  England is at it’s best when it stands alone.  Of course, they kinda forget that this is actually about the UK.  And standing alone - well there was a few wee nice tweets from Dan Snow this week, I think he appears to be a little irritated at the creeping nationalism in England;
Quote
Britain did indeed fight with extraordinary determination against the Axis Powers. British civilians and servicemen and women displayed enormous bravery and sacrifice. The human and economic cost was vast. But Britain did not fight alone.
Even after the fall of Britain's W European allies in 1939-40 Britain had India, Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and many other countries in its corner. The collective economic might of the UK, its dominions and colonies approached that the of the mighty USA
Once the USA and Soviets joined it was by pooling resources and integrating command structures that the allies were able to project overwhelming strength onto the battlefield against their enemies.
British troops often went into battle under American or other allied command. And vice versa. Polish squadrons fighting under a New Zealander played a hugely important role in the Battle of Britain, while...
..on D-day British, US, Canadian and other troops landed, commanded by British general Montgomery, working to a plan set by American Supreme Commander Eisenhower. There were slightly more British Empire than US troops. (By VE Day there were many more Americans)
Meanwhile in South East Asia a vast coalition of allies fought under British supreme command.
At the very highest level Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt debated strategy fiercely. Churchill lost, on Poland at Yalta for example, but also won on things like a French occupation zone in Germany.
At Tehran Churchill was bullied into abandoning plans in the eastern Mediterranean in favour of D-day in the west. He said he felt like the 'poor little English donkey' between the mighty Russian bear and American buffalo.
He gave in. But in return Stalin agreed to time a massive Soviet offensive in the East with the allied landings in the west and agreed to join the war against Japan.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 February 2019, 10:56:31 pm
But you want to stand alone?  Do you?
Quote
Britain has fought in A LOT of coalitions. They are expensive, frustrating & often inefficient but we're ultimately victorious. Britain has lost only one great power war in the last 250yrs. The American Revolutionary War, when, funnily enough, Britain was fighting alone


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 February 2019, 12:49:12 am
Quote
Because I don't want all the other stuff that go's with it.Like
........ jobs?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 February 2019, 01:02:11 am
Quote
How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 


QuoteThe EU has no shared border with Brazil.



   
Oh yes it has-- shows that you don't know anything other than what you google - try googling it and find out
</blockquote>

I've googled. It's true, it does



Yes the French EU Overseas Territory shares a border with Brazil. It's a closed border, unlike Switzerland. Unlike Ireland, it doesn't have the potential for terrorism. What's your point?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 03 February 2019, 10:49:11 am
Quote
It wishes to have its own army,
Nope it’s never going to happen.
Quote



Absolute bollocks, in 2018 Merkel and Macron  were both backing the creation of a EU army ,
A spokesperson for the commission’s president [/size]Jean-Claude Juncker (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/jean-claude-juncker)[/color]said he was “pleased” that the argument for the force seemed to be “going in our direction”.[/font][/color][/size][/color][/size][/color]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 03 February 2019, 11:32:28 am
The thing is Slappy that VNA just spouts stuff off, most of it is what he wants to happen - or not happen and the rest he just does not understand, he is like the Diane Abbott of the forum  :D See-------


How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 

The EU has no shared border with Brazil.





Yes the French EU Overseas Territory shares a border with Brazil.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 11:37:09 am
Quote
Quote from: VNA on 02 February 2019, 07:43:40 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg291798.html#msg291798[/url])<blockquote> Quote<blockquote>It wishes to have its own army,</blockquote>Nope it’s never going to happen.
Quote<blockquote>


Absolute bollocks, in 2018 Merkel and Macron  were both backing the creation of a EU army ,
A spokesperson for the commission’s president Jean-Claude Juncker ([url]https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/jean-claude-juncker[/url])said he was “pleased” that the argument for the force seemed to be “going in our direction”.</blockquote></blockquote>      Report to moderator ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=24678.2024;msg=291825[/url])   ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Themes/Crushing/images/ip.gif[/url]) Logged ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=helpadmin;help=see_member_ip[/url])

 Slappy, I know they say Jean-Claude Juncker always gets what he wants.  But on this one he won’t.  And if you actually believe this, umm non-issue, it’s all the more reason to stay in the EU so that the UK can deploy it’s veto.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 February 2019, 11:38:20 am
So what? Somebody googled EU Borders before someone else did. Playground stuff.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 11:40:33 am
Quote
The thing is Slappy that VNA just spouts stuff off, most of it is what he wants to happen - or not happen and the rest he just does not understand, he is like the Diane Abbott of the forum  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/cheesy.gif[/url]) See-------


Quote from: fazersharp on 31 January 2019, 09:59:29 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg291685.html#msg291685[/url])<blockquote>How does the EU manage its border with Brazil ? 
</blockquote>
Quote from: VNA on 02 February 2019, 06:01:23 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg291784.html#msg291784[/url])<blockquote>The EU has no shared border with Brazil.





Quote from: mtread on Today at 01:02:11 AM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg291818.html#msg291818[/url])<blockquote> Yes the French EU Overseas Territory shares a border with Brazil.
</blockquote></blockquote>   « Last Edit: Today at 11:35:18 AM » ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=posthistory;topic=24678.0;msg=291830[/url])

And Fazersarp, don't you just love to mislead with selective quotes.  Let me help you..............
Quote
It's a closed border, unlike Switzerland. Unlike Ireland,
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 February 2019, 11:47:32 am
As to 'armies', well we already belong to a 'NATO Army'. You know, the one that got us into trouble in Iraq, and then Syria. The one that's now led by Trump. So perhaps looking at other options isn't such a bad idea?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 03 February 2019, 01:24:20 pm
Just for you mtread as I know you won't follow my links :D   And VNA, about time your cage got rattled again :lol


Blog (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/category/blog/) [/size]•[/size][/font][/color] Featured (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/category/featured/)[/size][size=4.5rem]Remainers have given the EU the status of a religious cult

[/size]16 hours agoby [size=1.4rem]David Blake (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/author/david-blake/)[/size][/color][/font][/size][size=4.5rem]
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17 min read
[/size]16 hours ago[size=4.5rem]
(https://briefingsforbrexit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/eu-cult-810x810.jpg)


Written by      [/size]David Blake (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/author/david-blake/)[/size][size=2.2rem]very aspect of the European Union is failing, yet Remainers are in denial. Like supporters of a bad religion, they use fear and coercion to pressurise Leavers into changing their mind.[/size][/color]Post Segments[/color]There is no positive case for staying in the EU (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/remainers-have-given-the-eu-the-status-of-a-religious-cult/?fbclid=IwAR1wohrBGqBTV7J-2ax6drdpZVKq2A54d1291wRsWy0-aN9FZxAIeLarwa8#There_is_no_positive_case_for_staying_in_the_EU)[/color]Fear and coercion are the only tools open to Remainers (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/remainers-have-given-the-eu-the-status-of-a-religious-cult/?fbclid=IwAR1wohrBGqBTV7J-2ax6drdpZVKq2A54d1291wRsWy0-aN9FZxAIeLarwa8#Fear_and_coercion_are_the_only_tools_open_to_Remainers)[/color]All sense of rational argument has disappeared (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/remainers-have-given-the-eu-the-status-of-a-religious-cult/?fbclid=IwAR1wohrBGqBTV7J-2ax6drdpZVKq2A54d1291wRsWy0-aN9FZxAIeLarwa8#All_sense_of_rational_argument_has_disappeared)[/color]It’s time to reveal the dirty little secrets behind the cult that the Remainers want to keep us trapped in… (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/remainers-have-given-the-eu-the-status-of-a-religious-cult/?fbclid=IwAR1wohrBGqBTV7J-2ax6drdpZVKq2A54d1291wRsWy0-aN9FZxAIeLarwa8#Its_time_to_reveal_the_dirty_little_secrets_behind_the_cult_that_the_Remainers_want_to_keep_us_trapped_in)[/color]…the political crisis (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/remainers-have-given-the-eu-the-status-of-a-religious-cult/?fbclid=IwAR1wohrBGqBTV7J-2ax6drdpZVKq2A54d1291wRsWy0-aN9FZxAIeLarwa8#the_political_crisis)[/color]… the economic crisis (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/remainers-have-given-the-eu-the-status-of-a-religious-cult/?fbclid=IwAR1wohrBGqBTV7J-2ax6drdpZVKq2A54d1291wRsWy0-aN9FZxAIeLarwa8#_the_economic_crisis)[/color]…the financial crisis (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/remainers-have-given-the-eu-the-status-of-a-religious-cult/?fbclid=IwAR1wohrBGqBTV7J-2ax6drdpZVKq2A54d1291wRsWy0-aN9FZxAIeLarwa8#the_financial_crisis)[/color]Why do Remainers have such blind faith? (https://briefingsforbrexit.com/remainers-have-given-the-eu-the-status-of-a-religious-cult/?fbclid=IwAR1wohrBGqBTV7J-2ax6drdpZVKq2A54d1291wRsWy0-aN9FZxAIeLarwa8#Why_do_Remainers_have_such_blind_faith)[/color]There is no positive case for staying in the EUNot once since the Referendum was announced has a positive case been made for staying in the EU or indeed a positive case for the EU itself. With possibly one exception – it is necessary to prevent another European war. I guess you can call this a positive case, although it happens to be wrong: it is NATO not the EU that has prevented a European war for the last 70 years.Fear and coercion are the only tools open to RemainersThe case for staying has been always been based on fear.  The most prominent examples of this were the Project Fear campaigns led by the Treasury under George Osborne (Mark 1) and Philip Hammond (Mark 2).  You will remember Osborne introducing IMF Managing Director, Christine Lagarde, in May 2016, a month before the Referendum, who said that leaving the EU would have ‘pretty bad to very, very bad consequences’ for the UK – that could result in a ‘sudden stop’ in money flowing into the finance sector which would drive down the value of the pound and lead to a sharp rise in interest rates, falling house and commercial property prices and the erosion of London’s status as a global financial centre, all of which would lead to a technical recession.  None of this materialised, except for the fall in sterling which was good for both exports and tourism.
The case for staying has also been based on exercising a form of coercive control which Yanis Varoufakis in Adults in the Room dubbed the Hotel California effect: you can check out, but you can never leave. Prominent proponents of this form of control are Lord Heseltine – who the day after the Referendum result said, with the absolute confidence of a religious zealot, that Brexit would never happen – through the likes of Blair and Mandelson to the promoters of a second referendum or People’s Vote – who want to give us a second chance of redemption before we enter eternal damnation and spend the rest of time burning in hell. The EU has form here. It keeps getting you to vote again and again until you make the right decision – as it has done in Holland, France and Ireland.
Fear and coercion are precisely what bad religions use to keep the masses under control. Leaving amounts to apostasy which has to be avoided at all costs.All sense of rational argument has disappearedRemainers have been allowed to set the language of the Brexit debate and naturally they have come up with hellfire terms like ‘crashing out’, ‘cliff edge’, and ‘leaping into the unknown’.  They have even dreamt up distinctions like ‘hard’ and ‘soft’ Brexit to sow further confusion. David Cameron himself said the decision would be ‘in or out’ – nothing could be clearer. There can only ever be one Brexit and that is a clean sovereign Brexit – which is what people voted for, despite being told a million times that they did not understand what they were voting for.
All sense of rational argument has disappeared.  The result is an environment in which absurd statements are being taken seriously.  Here are a few examples:‘Food prices will rise after Brexit’. The EU has the highest food prices in the world because it imposes an average tariff of 17% on imported food – in the case of some foods, such as chicken, the tariff is above 70%. So, the only way that food prices would rise after Brexit would be if the UK government raised the tariffs on food even further.  But one of the key reasons for leaving the EU is to reduce these absurdly high tariffs – which were originally set to protect inefficient French farmers from global competition.[/c]
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  • ‘People will die in hospital because vital drugs will not be imported’ and ‘Brexit will cause 12,000 deaths because of the lack of fruit and vegetables’, according to a study in the British Medical Journal. This would only happen if either the French government prevents the trucks carrying medicines, fruit and vegetables from leaving Calais or the UK government prevents the trucks from landing at Dover.  Jean-Marc Puissesseau, the head of the port of Calais, has repeatedly said that ‘there will be no delays’ in Calais.
  • ‘Due to the complex supply chains in the automotive manufacturing industry, UK car makers will be forced to move to the continent if the UK leaves the Customs Union’. This is just another manifestation of Project Fear.  Equally complex supply chains exist amongst Asian tiger economies and just-in-time delivery of component parts work effectively, without these economies being part of either a single market or a customs union.  The same will happen here after Brexit and new more efficient supply chains will also develop.
  • ‘The UK must remain in the Custom Union/Single Market/EU to preserve peace in Northern Ireland’. Again this is a non-problem if the Irish and UK government collaborate – as they do now in the case of fuel launderers who remove the dye from low-cost red diesel used in agricultural vehicles to sell on at higher prices as regular fuel. But it has now got completely out of hand as a result of the Prime Minister’s negotiating incompetence.  There are endless studies showing that it is a non-problem – including the Smart Border 2.0 report for the European Parliament by Lars Karlsson, a former deputy director of Swedish Customs – but these are all brushed aside as ‘magical thinking’.

Every time one of these absurdities is raised, the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation gives endless opportunities to Remain politicians to spout on about it.  So it doesn’t take long for Anna Soubry to get on her soapbox and apologise to the Irish people for ‘what my country has been doing’. Or for Ken Clarke to say the backstop ‘must last for ever’ if not longer. Recently, the EU has announced it will harmonise VAT thresholds for small businesses across Europe and immediately Remain politicians cry out that the people did not vote for this and demand a second referendum.
It’s all completely barking – as these politicians know full well.
But it actually gets even more bizarre. We can have Heseltine stand up at a People’s Vote rally and say that it is Remainers who are the true patriots.  Mandelson – with his big EU pension – has also said that he is a patriot, while Leavers are nationalists.  And more bizarre still.  There are clearly many people who are incandescent at Leavers wanting to be able elect (and fire) the people who decide the laws they have to obey and to choose freely whom they trade with. You only have to read some of the reactions to articles on even the Conservativehome or Daily Telegraph websites.  These Remoaners want Brexit – if it happens – to be a total failure.  They want to see lorries backed up on the M20. They want to see a big slump in the economy. The want famine and pestilence.  They want to be able to say ‘we told you so’. How mad is that!It’s time to reveal the dirty little secrets behind the cult that the Remainers want to keep us trapped in…Remainers really do need to know what they’re in for if we remain in the EU. There is an awful lot to be fearful about. As I have discussed elsewhere on Briefings for Brexit, there are very serious political, economic and financial crises brewing.  These are the inevitable consequence of the inconsistencies in way the EU was constructed – inconsistencies that can never be resolved. …the political crisisAt a political level, there is the inconsistency between the member states being independent nations – which is the only basis on which the electorates in each country give legitimacy to the national governments they elect – and those same nations having to cede full sovereignty to the European Commission in Brussels for the EU to work. ‘Ever closer union’ means exactly what it says. The Commission continually grabs more power by stealth. The most notorious example of this is the Lisbon Treaty which introduced an EU constitution – with a single EU presidency, foreign policy, army and anthem – when this had clearly been rejected in national referendums.  In the process of this power grab, the EU is becoming increasingly undemocratic and authoritarian.
But it could get much worse if the recommendation of a contributor to a recent panel discussion on the BBC World Service is implemented – I didn’t hear the beginning of the discussion, so didn’t catch his name.  The contributor said it was essential for Europe’s future that the European Council was scrapped – leaving only the European Commission and the European Court of Justice (ECJ) as the sole decision makers. This takes away any role for national governments in future policy making in the EU.  The real power would therefore rest with unelected bureaucrats at the Commission who propose new laws and with unelected judges at the ECJ who adjudicate on existing laws using the ‘purposive’ method. This allows them to interpret and reinterpret the wording of EU laws in line with the Commission’s (often changing) intentions.
One example of this was the ECJ’s ruling that the European Central Bank’s quantitative easing (QE) programme between 2015 and 2018 was consistent with Article 123 (of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union) which prohibits the monetary financing of government budget deficits. But if QE is not the monetary financing of government budget deficits, then nothing is!
A more recent example was the ECJ ruling that Article 50 (of the Treaty on European Union) could be revoked by the UK, when the original intention was that this was not possible, since it allows other member states to threaten to use Article 50 if they do not like what the Commission is proposing.   
This very continental, indeed Napoleonic, system of government was justified on the grounds that there were two layers of democracy (i.e., ‘double democracy’) – at the national level (represented by the Council) and at the individual level (represented by the Parliament).  So, if our World Service contributor gets his way, the EU would be reduced to a ‘single democracy’. But the risk is that this would soon become a ‘zero democracy’ as very few people know who their MEP is and the vast majority of people do not vote in European elections.
In his 2016 book Against Elections: The Case for Democracy, Belgian historian David Van Reybrouck describes the European Parliament as little better than one of the ‘councils of the people’ in the interwar colonial empires of the Belgium, Holland, Britain, or France – with the real power resting with a distant imperial executive. It is therefore no accident that Bruno Le Maire, the French finance minister, has recently called for Europe to become an empire to challenge superpowers like the US and China. Well you wouldn’t democracy getting in the way of that, would you?
Where does this leave national governments? They also get in the way of the empire builders in Brussels. The EU’s founding fathers have always wanted to turn Europe from a grouping of nation states into a grouping of regions. To be fair to the founding fathers, the nation state has been responsible for causing many of the atrocities in Europe’s recent past. But to believe that the solution to this problem is to turn Europe into a Europe of regions – like Catalonia, Corsica, Scotland and Wallonia – while at the same time expecting national loyalties to be transformed into a higher loyalty to a European Empire, led by a new Napoleon such as Jean-Claude Junker, is to court an even bigger disaster than World War I or World War II. It could ultimately lead to civil war – and as we have seen in Syria, a civil war is far worse than a war between nations.
It is also not the answer to the international challenges that Europe faces – an ultra-nationalist Russia still angry at Europe’s role in breaking up the Soviet Union and millions of people in the Middle East and Africa who see how easy it is with sufficient determination to get into Europe in search of a better life. The EU has shown that it is incapable of securing its own external borders. Some empire.… the economic crisisAt the economic level, there is the inconsistency between the desires of member states to implement policies that grow their economies and rules at the EU level which introduce a deflationary bias across the EU-wide economy.  There are two main explanations for this. The first is the euro. When it started in 1999, Germany joined at too low an exchange rate, while other countries like Italy and Spain joined at too high exchange rates. This gave Germany a competitive advantage which allowed it to build up trade surpluses not only with the rest of the EU, but also with the rest of the world, since the international value of the euro is suppressed by the less competitive members.  As a result, Italy and Spain have been in a permanent recession since.   And let’s not even mention Greece.
The second is that the EU has no mechanism for using fiscal policy to boost the economies in recession. This would require the fiscal union of EU member states – setting member state budgets and tax rates centrally in Brussels.  There are also limits on the size of member state budget deficits – they must not exceed 3% of gross domestic product (GDP) or 2.2% if the member state is also in the eurozone – and national debts – they must not exceed 60% of GDP. These limits prevent the member states themselves using fiscal policy to boost their economies.…the financial crisisAt the financial level, most eurozone banks are insolvent.  There are three main reasons for this.  The first is that these banks, especially in the weakest and most indebted economies, hold a substantial proportion of their assets in their own government’s bonds. EU rules assume member state bonds are risk free and so the banks do not have to hold risk capital against these holdings. But these bonds are far from riskless, especially in Italy, Spain and Greece. In times of crisis, the markets drive down the prices of the riskiest bonds and banks must either raise additional capital – which the weakest banks are unable to do – or reduce lending which damages economic growth. This creates a so-called ‘doom loop’, a vicious downward spiral in which the economy weakens, companies default, banks reduce lending and the economy weakens further.
The second reason is contagion.  French banks, for example, have made significant loans to Italian banks, so they are also at risk if Italian banks fail.  The third reason is capital flight which happens when residents in countries such as Italy, Spain and Greece lose confidence in their banking system and move funds to banks in stronger states, such as Germany.  This causes enormous distortions in Europe’s financial markets as Germany becomes flooded with money that it cannot use productively and there is a corresponding dearth of funds for investment in the Mediterranean states. German interest rates have been negative since 2014.  A study by Germany’s Postbank estimates that German savers lost interest income worth €125bn between 2011 and 2015 as a result.Why do Remainers have such blind faith?Surely Remainers are familiar with at least some of these issues. Perhaps they just do not want to see the fault lines in the dream world created by the EU’s founding fathers. A dream world – built on peace and respect for the environment – which has created a nirvana for both workers and capitalists.  This is the only reason I can think of as to why Remainers are such an odd bunch of left and right wingers.
The EU claims to be simultaneously both a worker’s paradise – given the social protections it guarantees to workers – and capitalism’s best friend – given how effectively businesses can lobby Brussels to raise barriers against cheaper imports from outside the EU. The most striking evidence for this is the support given by the Confederation of British Industry and Institute of Directors for the Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn – someone who has devoted his entire political career to destroying capitalism – in his ambition to keeping the UK in the Customs Union after Brexit.  They both can’t be right about the EU.
Let’s do a reality check. Angela Merkel once pointed out that ‘the EU has 10% of the world’s population, 25% of the world’s GDP, and 50% of the world’s welfare benefits’.  That GDP figure is a bit out of date, it’s now around 20% and will be closer to 15% of world GDP when the UK leaves, but the EU still has 50% of the world’s welfare benefits. This explains why the EU’s share of global income has declined and will continue to decline. It also explains why, in many parts of the EU, unemployment rates are more than 10% and youth unemployment rates are above 30%. At the same time, Europe’s consumers are paying the world’s highest prices for the goods they buy because of the 13,000 tariffs that European producers get Brussels to impose on imports.
This can’t possibly be sustainable, particularly when you have de facto open borders and the rest of the world wants to get their hands on some of those welfare benefits. The EU just doesn’t add up.  There are failures at all levels, political, economic and financial.  On any objective measure, the credibility of the EU is in tatters, but Remainers don’t care.  They have given it the status of a religious cult and to them it is impervious to criticism.  We have young people in the UK going on protest marches and holding up placards which say that the Referendum has ‘stolen their future’. Oddly enough, young people on the continent are now quite hostile to the EU. Perhaps that’s because they can’t find work in the workers’ paradise.  So be careful what you wish for.
All this puts Remainers in a state of denial.  There are no better examples of this than the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation and my own economics profession.
The BBC gives far more space to Remainers, while endlessly patronising Brexiteers who dare to criticise the EU – as has been pointed out by David Jones MP.
Similar language is used by economists: ‘no serious economist believes that leaving the EU will be anything other than an economic disaster for the UK’. Certainly, most economists believe this.  Yet they are the same economists who said it would be a disaster if the UK did not join the euro and who said that Osborne’s and Lagarde’s ridiculous predictions about the economy in the case of a no vote were ‘reasonable’.  They were wrong then and they are wrong now.
No amount of denial can stop the EU falling apart. And neither can fear and coercion.  Staying in the EU will have ‘pretty bad to very, very bad consequences’ for us all. But this is not going to stop Remainers wanting to keep us trapped indefinitely in this quasi-religious cult.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 February 2019, 02:05:26 pm
Blimey Dazza, are you going for a Foccing record! OK I'll follow your links in future :)
Skipping through it all quickly..... a couple of quick comments
There has been a war in Europe - the break up of the former Yugoslavia, where NATO bombed Serbia. I've been to Belgrade and seen the shell holes in buildings
Secondly using Red Diesel as a sign of cooperation between Eire and UK that will solve the problem of a hard Customs border, I find absolutely hilarious  :lol Don't forget I'm on home territory on this subject.
Thirdly, where did you get all that rubbish from?
Fourthly nice poster below  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 02:14:05 pm
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The problem with the Brexit referendum was not Brexit, it was the referendum. How could such a drastic decision be taken through so primitive a procedure in the first place?   
David Van Reybrouck
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 02:16:59 pm
The Smart Border 2.0 project is a project to minimise the impact of customs borders.
It does accept however that you still have to have border checks.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 03 February 2019, 02:21:17 pm
So what? Somebody googled EU Borders before someone else did. Playground stuff.
Yes I did but I was fact checking something else before posting on here which is when I came across it. I thought I would save it until it was relevant to the conversation the reason I posted it was a trap for VNA to which he gladly fell into I know he would reply back saying it was wrong. Proof that a lot of what he says is also not fully correct, like "no EU army" when a quick google finds that it is a stated aim/desire of the EU. So yes I came across it whilst googling something else about the EU.

 Apart from the odd wind up here and there, by way of this thread and my own fact checking BEFORE I POST (VNA lesson there) I have found out a lot more about the EU and the more I learn the more I am glad I voted out.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 02:34:00 pm
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Thirdly, where did you get all that rubbish from?
He got it from here - https://briefingsforbrexit.com/author/david-blake/

It's a cut and paste.  I fell asleep half way through it. :lol
It's utter foccin shite.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 02:44:32 pm
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I did but I was fact checking something else before posting on here which is when I came across it. I thought I would save it until it was relevant to the conversation the reason I posted it was a trap for VNA to which he gladly fell into I know he would reply back saying it was wrong.
So, tell us how does the EU manage it’s border with Brazil?  That is the border between French Guiana and Amapa.  Perhaps you can explain to us all how this is relevant to the single market and in particular how it relates to the border between Northern Ireland and Eire.


 Or is it in fact, just like your reasons for leaving the EU, completely and utterly 100% irrelevant? :lol
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 03 February 2019, 02:45:39 pm
I ask how much use actually is this veto that keeps being touted whenever a negative fact is stated about the EU. Apart from 1 time I can not find when it has actually been used by us.Here is what I have found, this is how useful it is.
 
Back in 2011 Cameron used the UKs veto to block the revised Lisbon treaty, a new EU-wide treaty to salvage the single currency.
EU leaders promptly agreed to bypass Britain and establish a new accord on the euro among themselves. The EU appeared poised to line up 26-1 against Cameron in support of the Franco-German blueprint, leaving Britain utterly isolated.
 For the first time since Britain joined the European Community in 1973, a treaty that goes to the heart of how the EU works will be struck without a British signature.
Cameron appeared initially to have lukewarm backing from Sweden, the Czech Republic and Hungary. But by all three had signalled they would take the Franco-German proposals for a new "fiscal compact" to their parliaments.
With at least 23 countries signing up for a deal conferring intrusive rights on European institutions to enforce budgetary policy in countries breaking the euro's debt and deficit rules, as well as quasi-automatic penalties for delinquents, the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, the central driver of the new regime, appeared sanguine and unbothered by the British veto.

Further more the EU has a plan to prevent EU states from using veto powers to block legislation in areas that usually demand an unanimous agreement, (LIKE AN EU ARMY Fazersharp added this)
The EU commission is now pushing for a qualified majority voting based on article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty.

For full disclosure I got my info after googling "how many times has the UK used its EU veto"
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 03 February 2019, 02:53:49 pm
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I did but I was fact checking something else before posting on here which is when I came across it. I thought I would save it until it was relevant to the conversation the reason I posted it was a trap for VNA to which he gladly fell into I know he would reply back saying it was wrong.
So, tell us how does the EU manage it’s border with Brazil?  That is the border between French Guiana and Amapa.  Perhaps you can explain to us all how this is relevant to the single market and in particular how it relates to the border between Northern Ireland and Eire.
I have no idea how the border is managed. I can not explain how it is relevant at all in any way.

I told you honestly why I posted it, it was a trap for you.  It was a great big grand piano hovering above a glass of whisky and the Wile E Coyote VNA couldn't help himself.  :lol 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 03:08:03 pm
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I have no idea how the border is managed. I can not explain how it is relevant at all in any way.
I'll help you with that.  It is not relevant in any shape or form whatsoever. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 03 February 2019, 03:31:31 pm
One thing that has truck me in the last few months is the absolute weakness of the argument from the BREXITEERS.  People who voted for BREXIT can’t actually tell you why they voted for BREXIT, at least not in real substantial factual political terms.  Or if they can, to some degree, it’s daylight running lamps, bent bananas and 350 million a week more for the NHS – one non-issue and two lies there then.


Increasingly what we now hear is nationalism.  English Nationalism.  Patriotic fighting talk.  England is at it’s best when it stands alone.  Of course, they kinda forget that this is actually about the UK.  And standing alone - well there was a few wee nice tweets from Dan Snow this week, I think he appears to be a little irritated at the creeping nationalism in England;
Quote
Britain did indeed fight with extraordinary determination against the Axis Powers. British civilians and servicemen and women displayed enormous bravery and sacrifice. The human and economic cost was vast. But Britain did not fight alone.
Even after the fall of Britain's W European allies in 1939-40 Britain had India, Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and many other countries in its corner. The collective economic might of the UK, its dominions and colonies approached that the of the mighty USA
Once the USA and Soviets joined it was by pooling resources and integrating command structures that the allies were able to project overwhelming strength onto the battlefield against their enemies.
British troops often went into battle under American or other allied command. And vice versa. Polish squadrons fighting under a New Zealander played a hugely important role in the Battle of Britain, while...
..on D-day British, US, Canadian and other troops landed, commanded by British general Montgomery, working to a plan set by American Supreme Commander Eisenhower. There were slightly more British Empire than US troops. (By VE Day there were many more Americans)
Meanwhile in South East Asia a vast coalition of allies fought under British supreme command.
At the very highest level Churchill, Stalin and Roosevelt debated strategy fiercely. Churchill lost, on Poland at Yalta for example, but also won on things like a French occupation zone in Germany.
At Tehran Churchill was bullied into abandoning plans in the eastern Mediterranean in favour of D-day in the west. He said he felt like the 'poor little English donkey' between the mighty Russian bear and American buffalo.
He gave in. But in return Stalin agreed to time a massive Soviet offensive in the East with the allied landings in the west and agreed to join the war against Japan.


Youve shot yourself in the foot quoting that lot mate. Our friends and allies in the larger world  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 03 February 2019, 03:37:29 pm
I ask how much use actually is this veto that keeps being touted whenever a negative fact is stated about the EU. Apart from 1 time I can not find when it has actually been used by us.Here is what I have found, this is how useful it is.
 
Back in 2011 Cameron used the UKs veto to block the revised Lisbon treaty, a new EU-wide treaty to salvage the single currency.
EU leaders promptly agreed to bypass Britain and establish a new accord on the euro among themselves. The EU appeared poised to line up 26-1 against Cameron in support of the Franco-German blueprint, leaving Britain utterly isolated.
 For the first time since Britain joined the European Community in 1973, a treaty that goes to the heart of how the EU works will be struck without a British signature.
Cameron appeared initially to have lukewarm backing from Sweden, the Czech Republic and Hungary. But by all three had signalled they would take the Franco-German proposals for a new "fiscal compact" to their parliaments.
With at least 23 countries signing up for a deal conferring intrusive rights on European institutions to enforce budgetary policy in countries breaking the euro's debt and deficit rules, as well as quasi-automatic penalties for delinquents, the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, the central driver of the new regime, appeared sanguine and unbothered by the British veto.

Further more the EU has a plan to prevent EU states from using veto powers to block legislation in areas that usually demand an unanimous agreement, (LIKE AN EU ARMY Fazersharp added this) (and the EU foreign policy _Agricola)
The EU commission is now pushing for a qualified majority voting based on article 48 of the Lisbon Treaty.

For full disclosure I got my info after googling "how many times has the UK used its EU veto"
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 05:06:53 pm
 Oh well, we are indeed seeing the beginning of the end of major manufacturing in the UK.


What we knew yesterday was that Nissan had reversed its decision to build the new X-Trail in the UK.


Today we know why.  BREXIT.


We also now know where the X-Trail will be built.  Japan.


Japan now has a free trade agreement with the EU.  So, whilst it is strategically preferable to build the X-Trail in the UK, that will only be the case if the UK is in the single market. 



Nissan has lost confidence in the UK. 

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 February 2019, 05:53:08 pm

Blimey Dazza, are you going for a Foccing record! OK I'll follow your links in future :) 


 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 03 February 2019, 06:40:59 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA on 02 February 2019, 07:43:40 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24678.msg291798.html#msg291798[/url])<blockquote> Quote<blockquote>It wishes to have its own army,</blockquote>Nope it’s never going to happen.
Quote<blockquote>


Absolute bollocks, in 2018 Merkel and Macron  were both backing the creation of a EU army ,
A spokesperson for the commission’s president Jean-Claude Juncker ([url]https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/jean-claude-juncker[/url])said he was “pleased” that the argument for the force seemed to be “going in our direction”.</blockquote></blockquote>      Report to moderator ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=reporttm;topic=24678.2024;msg=291825[/url])   ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Themes/Crushing/images/ip.gif[/url]) Logged ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=helpadmin;help=see_member_ip[/url])

 Slappy, I know they say Jean-Claude Juncker always gets what he wants.  But on this one he won’t.  And if you actually believe this, umm non-issue, it’s all the more reason to stay in the EU so that the UK can deploy it’s veto.



You spout more shit than an elephant with diarrhoea, the EU vision for the future is total harmonisation , that incliudes all laws, taxation and armed forces. As for all 27 countries having to agree , already the EU wants to remove this right from members when voting on tax legislation. Once the right to veto is removed from one aspect then it makes it all the easier to remove it from every other aspect.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 08:57:29 pm
 
Quote
You spout more shit than an elephant with diarrhoea, the EU vision for the future is total harmonisation , that incliudes all laws, taxation and armed forces. As for all 27 countries having to agree , already the EU wants to remove this right from members when voting on tax legislation. Once the right to veto is removed from one aspect then it makes it all the easier to remove it from every other aspect.
No, it does not include all laws, not even all taxation, but obviously it includes laws relevant to trade.   If you have a single market you need to have common standards.


Individuals within the EU can of course have all the delusional visions they wish. Jean-Claude Juncker is just as free to talk pure shite as you are slappy.   But the reality is The EU is currently 28 countries, it is democratic – the members will decide.


So the creation of an EU army is about as likely as Turkey joining the EU and it’s whole population moving to the UK. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 03 February 2019, 09:49:55 pm
Quote
You spout more shit than an elephant with diarrhoea, the EU vision for the future is total harmonisation , that incliudes all laws, taxation and armed forces. As for all 27 countries having to agree , already the EU wants to remove this right from members when voting on tax legislation. Once the right to veto is removed from one aspect then it makes it all the easier to remove it from every other aspect.
No, it does not include all laws, not even all taxation, but obviously it includes laws relevant to trade.   If you have a single market you need to have common standards.


Individuals within the EU can of course have all the delusional visions they wish. Jean-Claude Juncker is just as free to talk pure shite as you are slappy.   But the reality is The EU is currently 28 countries, it is democratic – the members will decide.


So the creation of an EU army is about as likely as Turkey joining the EU and it’s whole population moving to the UK.


You truly are delusional, the vision is for the future not the present. No matter who head up the EU the future is a superstate where member countries will do as they are told or suffer the consequences. They have already rejected Italy 2019 budget plans as they do not meet their rules for member states that use the Euro, in other words if the EU doesn't like it they won't let you do it.
That is just a little preview of the future for EU members,.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 10:39:16 pm
 
Quote
You truly are delusional,
Sure I am. :lol
Quote
the vision is for the future not the present. No matter who head up the EU the future is a superstate where member countries will do as they are told or suffer the consequences. They have already rejected Italy 2019 budget plans as they do not meet their rules for member states that use the Euro, in other words if the EU doesn't like it they won't let you do it.
That is just a little preview of the future for EU members,.

Bear in mind that Italy has a debt of 131% of GDP.
Italy is a member of the Euro – we are not.
And in any case, despite what you say, Italy’s 2019 budget has been agreed.


Nissan has done a u-turn on manufacturing the X-Trail in the UK. 
The Qashqai is due to be replaced in 2020.  But if there is no certainty about single market access soon we can expect to lose that also.
The UK’s debt is running at 88% of GDP.  We cannot afford a recession.  Right now, because of BREXIT we are on course for recession. 



 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 10:40:35 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dya3_GlU8AIpqtC.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 10:41:46 pm
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 February 2019, 10:42:30 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DybuDkNVsAEVdWe.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 February 2019, 12:14:38 am
BBC News - May determined to deliver Brexit on time :lol


Good luck with that one
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 February 2019, 05:51:06 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyhSnUPWwAAjiHg.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 February 2019, 08:30:06 pm

The BBC news reporter on Radio 2 today said that the Nissan decision isn't related to Brexit.


He said it's due to a decline in the sales of diesel fuelled cars and an issue with the latest Euro emissions standard.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 February 2019, 10:00:03 pm
Nissan's Europe chairman, Gianluca deFicchy, said that "the continued uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future".
Who do you believe?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 February 2019, 10:21:01 pm

Nissan's Europe chairman, Gianluca deFicchy, said that "the continued uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future".
Who do you believe?


Yes the reporter did quote that, or words to that effect, but he said that the actual decision was made for the other reasons.


I'm just repeating what the news correspondent said on the Jeremy Vine show today.


Maybe the BBC have got it totally wrong?.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 February 2019, 10:31:15 pm
Quote
Yes the reporter did quote that, or words to that effect, but he said that the actual decision was made for the other reasons.
So are you suggesting that the Mr De Ficchy is lying?  And why on earth would he lie.

In the auto industry we have already lost Schaeffler and Michelin.  Both decisions influenced by Brexit.

UK manufactuering needs single market access or it becomes unviable.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 February 2019, 10:51:36 pm

I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm just reiterating what the reporter said today.


Blame the BBC if it's wrong :rolleyes


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 February 2019, 10:59:04 pm
Bottom line is Nissan is losing confidence in the UK.They need to tool up for the new X-Trail and they just won't do that without a guarantee of zero quota, zero tariff access to the EU.It's that simple.
Brexit is already driving our economy into recession.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 04 February 2019, 11:51:35 pm
Also Japan has just signed a big trade deal with the EU. Don't some of the models have Renault engines in them?


Why would they want to make them here now? So that's :


Nissan
Airbus
Sony
Dyson etc


Project Fear becoming Project Fact. On the other hand we're keeping Wetherspoons and all that English Sparkling Wine

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 February 2019, 12:24:46 am
Quote
Also Japan has just signed a big trade deal with the EU. Don't some of the models have Renault engines in them?
It’s the Renault–Nissan–Mitsubishi Alliance.


Basically, it still makes sense for Nissan to manufacture in Sunderland (in the EU), but only if it has quota and tariff free access to the single market (that’s the EU again YamFazFan)


Any issues at Sunderland they can easily switch production to France.  And as you say they can also manufacture at home in Japan (EU free trade deal).  The downside of Japan are the shipping costs.


Nissan is manufacturing the X-Trail in Japan, not because right now it is cheaper to do so, but because of BREXIT uncertainty.  Shipping is expensive (something that BREXITEERS seems to think is free) but it is a known cost – the cost of BREXIT to Nissan is currently unknown.


Nissan are fast losing confidence in the UK.


Oh post BREXIT the UK will have no free trade deal with Japan as we do today via the EU.  But Japan, well they don’t give a fuck, cos they already have a much bigger fish in the bag, the EU.  They'll shut down Sunderland and switch all production to France and Japan.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 February 2019, 12:25:44 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DymPGO3W0AAux7D.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 February 2019, 09:39:06 am

I've just been reading a Financial Times report on the Nissan decision.


Like the BBC report it says that it was down to a decline in diesel vehicle sales and new Euro emission regulations.


And didn't that Dyson factory relocate in about 2002?.


Honestly, the nonsense you 2 come up with between the pair of you!.
I don't know about 'Project Fear'. 'Project Fallacy' more like :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 February 2019, 09:47:02 am
Excuses, excuses. Just a coincidence these are all happening now, or all a big conspiracy?


Would you like to comment on Airbus, or is that just on wing and a prayer (pun intended)  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 February 2019, 09:48:10 am
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 February 2019, 09:59:29 am

Excuses, excuses. Just a coincidence these are all happening now, or all a big conspiracy?


You'd have to address those comments to The BBC and Financial Times. I'm just reiterating what they've said. I can provide the link if you like.


Oh and it's 2019 now, not 2002 ;) :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 February 2019, 10:35:02 am
..... and now Chris Failing Grayling says it'll be the EU's fault if there's no deal.


Heaven help us....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 February 2019, 06:26:13 pm
Quote
I've just been reading a Financial Times report on the Nissan decision.
 
 
Like the BBC report it says that it was down to a decline in diesel vehicle sales and new Euro emission regulations.

It’s kinda weird ain’t it.  The boss of Nissan says the current BREXIT situation was a factor in their decision to reverse their plans to build the X-Trail at Sunderland, but then Jacob Rees Mogg and Matthew Vincent at the FT seem to suggest the Nissan boss is telling fibs!


So I had a look at Mathhew’s argument.  He says the latest Euro 6 legislation is making it more expensive to build the X-trail.  But Euro 6 has been applicable to all new models for almost 5 years now.  And it applies to all manufacturers.  Euro 7 is on it’s way, but as yet is not fully defined and not expected to come into force until 2025.  This is not something that has cropped up since Nissan made it’s original decision to build the X-Trail at Sunderland.  Nor does Mathew explain why he thinks that because of Euro 6 legislation it will be cheaper to manufacture in Japan. 



Diesel sales are down, but this is because of the media miss-leading the public.  Governments want to find ways of getting polluting pre-Euro 5 diesels off the road.


Anyway on the same page, a wee video presented by the FT’s Peter Campbell accepts that BREXIT, as we all know, was indeed a factor. 



The FT also report the Business Secretary Greg Clark’s BREXIT related concerns in realtion to Nisaan cancelling the deal.


Nissan are proud of their Sunderland plant.  They have a number of times described Sunderland as the companies best performing assembly plant.  But for Nissan to continue to invest in the UK they need certainty.


The things they need, are a strong and stable currency.  No export quotas and single market access.  It’s clear from the cancellation of the X-Trail that Nissan do not feel as confident about Sunderland as they have in the past.  With the new Japanese free trade agreement, whilst it may cost them more to manufacture in the Japan for the EU market in the short term, they have absolutely certainty moving forwards.  Manufactuering needs long term stabilty.  Today that is not on offer in the UK.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 05 February 2019, 06:36:11 pm
apparently the Japanese have the same word for "problem" as they do for "opportunity"..... ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 February 2019, 07:01:19 pm
Quote
apparently the Japanese have the same word for "problem" as they do for "opportunity"..... ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url])

That reminds me......................

 Many years ago at work (power station) I remember being told by our managers that we no longer have problems.  The word problem was negative and a word that we would no longer be using at the station. (I’m sitting there thinking 1984 and new-speak etc).  They were serious, anybody talking about problems was to be coached and reminded that we now only had opportunities.  We were to talk about opportunities and not problems.


A few months later I was sitting in the permit office one quiet night shift just chewing the fat with another worker.  The permit office was right next to the turbine hall.  Suddenly one the operators came crashing through the door, grabbed the phone and dialled the emergency number then screamed down the phone at the control room supervisor “We’ve got one great big mother fucking almighty opportunity – bearing 3 on turbine 7 has gone up in flames!”
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 05 February 2019, 07:30:47 pm

Q: What do Brexit and cigarettes have in common?
A: Both are scientifically proven to have no health benefits whatsoever and both are enjoyed by idiots.


Sorry, made me chuckle.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 February 2019, 08:14:54 pm
Not bad. :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 February 2019, 08:18:42 pm
Quote
apparently the Japanese have the same word for "problem" as they do for "opportunity".....

I think it's based on their idea of 'continuous improvement'. You continuously analyse your problems and blockers, and work out how to overcome them, thereby always improving. Used first on Toyota assembly lines I believe.
I believe Mrs May will be trying it out on Rees-Mogg fairly soon  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 February 2019, 08:29:20 pm
If Nissan point to brexit as one of the factors and its actually more expensive to build in Japan then why don't they move to France or somewhere   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 February 2019, 08:41:48 pm
Quote
If Nissan point to brexit as one of the factors and its actually more expensive to build in Japan then why don't they move to France or somewhere   
The problem is they don't know the future cost of manufacture at Sunderland.  They have no idea what the pound will do, and no idea what their market access will be.  BREXIT is a disaster.   Right now they need to tool up a new line which is a major investment.  Without certainty they won't do that.

But this is what you guys voted for.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 05 February 2019, 08:57:05 pm
Quote
If Nissan point to brexit as one of the factors and its actually more expensive to build in Japan then why don't they move to France or somewhere   
The problem is they don't know the future cost of manufacture at Sunderland.  They have no idea what the pound will do, and no idea what their market access will be.  BREXIT is a disaster.   Right now they need to tool up a new line which is a major investment.  Without certainty they won't do that.

But this is what you guys voted for.

You did not answer my question, if you don't know then that's fine.
I think just like some others they are using brexit as a "cover story" didn't the UK give Nissan incentives £££ ? government investment to bring them here. So me thinks they have wanted out for a while but it would look bad on them after the tax payer part funded their move here ( fact check needed ) so brexit provides them with a perfect cover story to do something they have wanted to do.   
And his quote was "the continued uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future". That is not him saying it is Brexit.
And the continued uncertainty IMO is wholey down to the remainers constantly trying to frustrate, postpone, cancel, - do anything they can to disrupt brexit. If they got onboard with the majority vote from the start there be no "uncertainty".     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 February 2019, 09:04:44 pm
 
Quote
You did not answer my question, if you don't know then that's fine.
Not a question I can answer.  Why not ask Mr De Ficchy.  Oh wait a minute, you don’t believe him.
Quote
And his quote was "the continued uncertainty around the UK's future relationship with the EU is not helping companies like ours to plan for the future". That is not him saying it is Brexit.
Well what the fuck do you think he was saying? :lol   Jesus Christ! :eek
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 February 2019, 09:10:04 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dypa3K6XgAEuwSa.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 February 2019, 09:47:22 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dyq_w0rU0AAIYEZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 February 2019, 09:59:50 pm
 
Quote
And the continued uncertainty IMO is wholey down to the remainers constantly trying to frustrate, postpone, cancel, - do anything they can to disrupt brexit. If they got onboard with the majority vote from the start there be no "uncertainty".     

No it’s the Irish border stupid.  David Cameron never gave it a thought.  He didn’t think he’d win a majority, and therefore his potential continuing coalition partners and/or opposition would block it.  And if he did win a majority (which again he really didn’t think he would), then the country would never be daft enough to vote to leave the EU.  Donald Tusk told him he was stupid, and not to do it.  But DC did it, and it all went wrong. 



But you guys bought into Farage, Johnston, Gove and Jacob Rees Mogg – well done; ;)
Quote
There is no plan for no deal, because we’re going to get a great deal
– Boris Johnston 11-07-17

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 February 2019, 10:54:00 pm
Quote
And the continued uncertainty IMO is wholey down to the remainers constantly trying to frustrate, postpone, cancel, - do anything they can to disrupt brexit.
That is just rediculous. It's all about Brexiteers frustrating a deal. DUP Brexiteers don't want a different deal between NI and GB. Tory Brexiteers don't want the same deal between UK and Eire. The two are mutually incompatible. That's why she can't get a deal and is using No Deal as a bluff. That's May's problem. Nothing to do with Remain.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 February 2019, 10:59:32 pm
I see May is suggesting the government would back a joint UK/Eire bid for the FIFA World Cup. She is clearly getting desperate, and doesn't realise that would consist of 5 footballing host nations bidding, not 2.


Clueless  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: john roche on 06 February 2019, 12:44:21 am
Why shouldn't 'the remainers constantly trying to frustrate, postpone, cancel, - do anything they can to disrupt brexit'? 

I see no reason to make it easier for this country to make probably one of biggest mistakes in its history.

Cheers

John
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 06 February 2019, 05:54:36 am

The biggest mistake this country made was voting to join the Common Market 40 odd years ago. Should have been named the Conman market or the Federal States of Europe So we all knew what that yes vote would lead too :eek a dictatorship from Brussels some 40 odd years later.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 06 February 2019, 07:40:43 am
This is why we're leaving!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 06 February 2019, 07:41:44 am
This is the result- a sinking ship!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 February 2019, 07:59:20 am

Why shouldn't 'the remainers constantly trying to frustrate, postpone, cancel, - do anything they can to disrupt brexit'? 



Cheers

John


Refreshingly honest for a Remainer.


Cheers


YamFazFan
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 February 2019, 08:03:30 am

If Nissan point to brexit as one of the factors and its actually more expensive to build in Japan then why don't they move to France or somewhere   


The decline in diesel fuelled car sales and the new Euro emission standard is Europe-wide.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 February 2019, 10:23:10 am

Quote
You did not answer my question, if you don't know then that's fine.
Not a question I can answer. 



Which roughly translates to...'I could, but the real answer isn't the one I want to give'  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 February 2019, 04:37:11 pm
 So Tusk lets his true hatred of those who would DARE to leave the EU, he says they deserve 'special place in hell'. I think it looks like he is feeling the pressure of seeing that £39billion slipping out of his hands. And we did say the other day that the EU is almost like cult and Tusk has just confirmed it. Who in their right mind would want to be ruled by people like that.   
 
[/color](https://briefingsforbrexit.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/eu-cult-810x810.jpg)



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 February 2019, 04:45:58 pm
I would. Better than the idiots we've got running this country at the moment.
Tusk's comments are hilarious and well deserved. The reaction to it is even funnier. When you look back at the comments made about EU leaders by Johnson and Farage, it's quite mild.
So you Leavers without a plan..... you can all go to hell  :lol






Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 February 2019, 05:17:59 pm
Was Tusk's speech after dinner?. They live high on the hog in Brussels and I wondered if he'd been at the VSOP a bit much along with you know who ;) .

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 February 2019, 05:54:18 pm
So Tusk lets his true hatred of those who would DARE to leave the EU, he says they deserve 'special place in hell'. I think it looks like he is feeling the pressure of seeing that £39billion slipping out of his hands. And we did say the other day that the EU is almost like cult and Tusk has just confirmed it. Who in their right mind would want to be ruled by people like that.   
 
Totally agree. He's shown his true colours. It's an absolute gift to the Leave cause :) . You either Remain in the cult or you can go to hell. What a foolish thing to say. I bet he's regretting it now.

Hope he doesn't retract it. That might mitigate some of the damage he's done to the credibility of the EU :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 February 2019, 06:06:37 pm
Quote
bet he's regretting it now.
Bet he's not  :evil  About time somebody stirred things up try to get us off this merry-go-round farce.
So..........  exactly what is the plan?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: john roche on 06 February 2019, 06:11:34 pm
He's right, where are Johnson, Farage and Gove now?


Cheers


John




Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 February 2019, 06:14:04 pm
 
Quote
The decline in diesel fuelled car sales and the new Euro emission standard is Europe-wide.

See my post #2067.  Car sales are down - period, and there’s nothing new about Euro 6.  And if I was replacing my car tomorrow, well I’d buy a diesel, cannot see any reason why I shouldn’t.
 
Quote
Which roughly translates to...'I could, but the real answer isn't the one I want to give'  :lol
I’m not Mr Nissan.  We are though opening the door and giving Japan an excuse to bring it’s car manufacturing home.  Now that Japan has a free trade deal with the EU, what do you suppose ordinary people in Japan would like their car companies to do.
 
Quote
So Tusk lets his true hatred of those who would DARE to leave the EU, he says they deserve 'special place in hell'. I think it looks like he is feeling the pressure of seeing that £39billion slipping out of his hands. And we did say the other day that the EU is almost like cult and Tusk has just confirmed it. Who in their right mind would want to be ruled by people like that.   
No he’s just letting his frustration with the childish and stupid UK show.  We are behaving like absolute idiots.
Quote
I bet he's regretting it now.
It’s about time somebody spelled it out.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 February 2019, 06:15:44 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyvXmsmWwAIJhNQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 February 2019, 06:33:35 pm
He's right, where are Johnson, Farage and Gove now?


Cheers


John
Maintaining a dignified silence and letting Tusk's poorly chosen words damage the EU's cause all on their own hopefully :lol

Cheers 


YamFazFan
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 February 2019, 06:47:34 pm
Farage right now is on his LBC show - as he is every week day 6-7pm
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 February 2019, 06:56:14 pm
Quote
The decline in diesel fuelled car sales and the new Euro emission standard is Europe-wide.

And if I was replacing my car tomorrow, well I’d buy a diesel, cannot see any reason why I shouldn’t.
 
Because your local city will be very soon charging you to drive in to town in a diesel. In Scotland, the major cities of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee are planning to introduce Low Emission Zones within the next year.Changes to vehicle excise duty rates introduced in April 2018 are part of a raft of measures hitting diesel drivers.
Although diesels produce 15% less CO2 than petrol cars, they emit four times more nitrogen dioxide (NO2) as well 22 times more particulate matter or PM – tiny particles that penetrate the brain, lungs and heart.I think you have been sniffing your own diesel fumes.     

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 February 2019, 07:09:42 pm
Quote
Farage right now is on his LBC show - as he is every week day 6-7pm
Amazing how he juggles that with his other job we pay him for, at the EU. The one he hardly ever turns up for.

Anyway I'm always too busy at that time. Pity. Try James O'Brien instead  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 February 2019, 07:27:20 pm
Quote
Farage right now is on his LBC show - as he is every week day 6-7pm

Amazing how he juggles that with his other job we pay him for, at the EU. The one he hardly ever turns up for.

Anyway I'm always too busy at that time. Pity. Try James O'Brien instead  :)
You do not see him because the BBC or Sky do not report on most of his EU speeches like the one he gave LAST WEEK, here it is for you Sorry... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR2snMKWbUM#) Across platforms, the video has racked up over four million views and counting but go and try to find it on the BBC despite showing the one after and in reply to his speech which was by that rabid Verhofstadt.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 February 2019, 08:10:57 pm
 
Quote
Because your local city will be very soon charging you to drive in to town in a diesel.
My diesel is EURO 6 compliant.
Quote
In Scotland, the major cities of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee are planning to introduce Low Emission Zones within the next year.
My diesel is EURO 6 compliant and is exempt.
Quote
Although diesels produce 15% less CO2 than petrol cars, they emit four times more nitrogen dioxide (NO2) as well 22 times more particulate matter or PM – tiny particles that penetrate the brain, lungs and heart. I think you have been sniffing your own diesel fumes.     
Not the case if your diesel, like mine, is EURO 6 compliant. :D
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 February 2019, 08:13:53 pm

The biggest mistake this country made was voting to join the Common Market 40 odd years ago. Should have been named the Conman market or the Federal States of Europe So we all knew what that yes vote would lead too :eek a dictatorship from Brussels some 40 odd years later.
The electorate didn't have a vote on joining The EEC. Edward Heath signed us up to it. The 1975 referendum was a vote to decide whether we remained or left.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 February 2019, 08:23:02 pm
 
Quote
Across platforms, the video has racked up over four million views and counting but go and try to find it on the BBC despite showing the one after and in reply to his speech which was by that rabid Verhofstadt.
He’s a joke, an embarrassment.  Though a joke and embarrassment that has delivered BREXIT. 



But what is the relevance of Nigel’s rant, and rant it is.  Nigel might have lumbered us with BREXIT, but he’s not negotiating it.  Nigel isn’t in government, he’s no responsibility whatsoever with the mess he has lumbered us with.  So he can, as can been seen in this cringe worthy clip, rant and rave, and talk all the pish he wants.


And aye, yes perhaps there is a special place in hell for Nigel.  What a total utter prick he is.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 February 2019, 08:26:57 pm
Quote
Because your local city will be very soon charging you to drive in to town in a diesel.
My diesel is EURO 6 compliant.
Quote
In Scotland, the major cities of Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee are planning to introduce Low Emission Zones within the next year.
My diesel is EURO 6 compliant and is exempt.
Quote
Although diesels produce 15% less CO2 than petrol cars, they emit four times more nitrogen dioxide (NO2) as well 22 times more particulate matter or PM – tiny particles that penetrate the brain, lungs and heart. I think you have been sniffing your own diesel fumes.     
Not the case if your diesel, like mine, is EURO 6 compliant. :D

The issue I have with these ULEZ zones is that they cost the least well off the most. Most of the people who service, clean and generally keep our major towns and cities running can't afford to live in them and have to travel in, often at unsociable hours when public transport isn't running.

They simply can't afford to change at the drop of a hat to EURO 6 compliant vehicles. It's not a worry for the better off.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 February 2019, 08:36:15 pm
 
Quote
The issue I have with these ULEZ zones is that they cost the least well off the most. Most of the people who service, clean and generally keep our major towns and cities running can't afford to live in them and have to travel in, often at unsociable hours when public transport isn't running.
 
They simply can't afford to change at the drop of a hat to EURO 6 compliant vehicles. It's not a worry for the better off.
I totally agree with you. :eek :eek :eek   I can swan in and out for free cos I can afford a EURO6 diesel.  But people who can’t afford to buy a new motor cos the city centre regulations have changed are stuck with the charges.  Yeah, it’s crap. :(


But my point is, if diesel sales are being hit hard at the moment it is because people have been miss-informed. 



But the bigger picture, in the long run, is that fossil fuelled cars will be phased out.  I think most manufactures will be focusing on petrol for EURO7.  I suspect a few years down the road your two options will be plug in hybrid petrol or 100% electric.  And ultimately in the long run all petrol and diesel cars will be banned from city centres.


In the meantime, I’ll probably replace ma wee YETI 4x4 diesel with another diesel when the times comes.  Quite fancy a 3.0 BMW diesel (EURO 6 of course) – they are foccing quick.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 February 2019, 08:39:56 pm
 
Quote
The issue I have with these ULEZ zones is that they cost the least well off the most. Most of the people who service, clean and generally keep our major towns and cities running can't afford to live in them and have to travel in, often at unsociable hours when public transport isn't running.

You know the funny thing is, the people who have pushed BREXIT, Farage, Gove, Johnston, Mogg etc etc.  BREXIT won’t touch them, in fact they are going to make a killing out of it.  They do not give a flying fuck about ordinary people.


 
But for the ordinary punters – well lets just say, you gonna see a lot more food banks.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 February 2019, 08:48:58 pm
So we are agreed then that its the decline in diesel sales that has influenced Nissan 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 February 2019, 09:01:35 pm
Bleak outlook for Nissan car plant despite £40m aid.This the headline for ---- no not 2019 but 2001

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1318403/Bleak-outlook-for-Nissan-car-plant-despite-40m-aid.html (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1318403/Bleak-outlook-for-Nissan-car-plant-despite-40m-aid.html)
Nissan have been looking for a way out for years and using the excuse of brexit has provided them a "free pass". Like when the gov puts out bad news undercover of a bigger story.
I wonder how much the move is influenced by the fact that Nissan is majoprity owned by a French company who get massive handouts from the French government 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 February 2019, 09:08:40 pm
You know the funny thing is, the people who have pushed BREXIT, Farage, Gove, Johnston, Mogg etc etc.  BREXIT won’t touch them
Really?. I thought they'd got a 'Special Place In Hell' waiting for them ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 February 2019, 09:12:24 pm
Nigel might have lumbered us with BREXIT, but he’s not negotiating it.  Nigel isn’t in government, he’s no responsibility whatsoever with the mess he has lumbered us with. 
Well that is the governments fault because they should of made him Sir Nigel and brought him into government. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 06 February 2019, 09:21:21 pm
Just heard the BBC news heavily pointing out that the Tusk "go to hell" comment was only directed at select politicians and not the wider 52% that voted leave. Brussels Broadcasting Company - :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 February 2019, 10:26:07 pm
Quote
Bleak outlook for Nissan car plant despite £40m aid.This the headline for ---- no not 2019 but 2001
 
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1318403/Bleak-outlook-for-Nissan-car-plant-despite-40m-aid.html (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1318403/Bleak-outlook-for-Nissan-car-plant-despite-40m-aid.html)
Nissan have been looking for a way out for years and using the excuse of brexit has provided them a "free pass". Like when the gov puts out bad news undercover of a bigger story.
I wonder how much the move is influenced by the fact that Nissan is majoprity owned by a French company who get massive handouts from the French government 
Big business is about money.  There has been nothing to stop Nissan leaving at any time.


What your article points out is Nissans shear frustration at the UK in not joining the Euro.  (Oh gosh it's about the EU again!) :rolleyes


Quote
The factory is also exploring getting most of the Micra's components from the eurozone which would be a blow to British component suppliers.
What did happen was numerous parts suppliers in the UK were put out of business.  Nissan then with the strong pound had the parts made in Europe.  That made their overall investment in the UK work.


But guess what.  The pound is weak because of BREXIT, so the cost of the components has soared. Further the pound will crash if there is no deal.   And right now, just when Nissan need to tool up for a new model, they don’t even know what their market access will be.  A 20% increase in component costs added to WTO tarriffs could spell the end of Sunderland.


Under the current circumstances they have played safe and dumped Sunderland for the new model.



They are due to tool up for the new Qashqai next year.  You can guarantee they are working on a back-up plan to Sunderland. 



BREXIT - what a foccing great idea. :eek
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 February 2019, 10:55:11 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dyqx7ZIU0AALVHs.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 February 2019, 10:56:06 pm
Quote
BREXIT - what a foccing great idea.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 February 2019, 11:28:09 pm
(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24678.0;attach=34512;image)


Aye, that seems about right. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 07 February 2019, 12:08:55 am
So Tusk lets his true hatred of those who would DARE to leave the EU, he says they deserve 'special place in hell'.

It's amazing how many Brexiters and the Brexit supporting media have managed to take this and twist it to their needs by selectively quoting him.

What he actually said was: there was a "special place in hell" "for those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan of how to carry it out safely"

Cameron didn't plan because he didn't expect to lose. Boris supported Brexit because he didn't expect to win.

We've had two years of faffing around and now we have May's deal which should have been on the Referendum in the first place, so the question would have been "Do we Leave with this deal or Remain as we are now".

I bet a lot more people would have then realised that May's deal leaves us worse off than remaining.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 February 2019, 12:41:45 am
Quote
What he actually said was: there was a "special place in hell" "for those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan of how to carry it out safely"
 
Cameron didn't plan because he didn't expect to lose. Boris supported Brexit because he didn't expect to win.

Spot on Grahamm.  Cameron offered it in the hope of his party gaining the most seats in parliament – he did not however expect to win a majority.  That came as a surprise to him.  He gave it a bit of thought, and decided to honour his manifesto pledge as the no way would the country be stupid enough to vote in favour of leaving the EU.


Not one thought was given to what leaving the EU might actually mean.  No thought whatsoever was given to Northern Ireland and the hard won peace under the Good Friday agreement.


Boris jumped in cos he thought playing the populaist card woud be good for his career.


What an absolute fuck up. 

 
Quote
Just heard the BBC news heavily pointing out that the Tusk "go to hell" comment was only directed at select politicians and not the wider 52% that voted leave. Brussels Broadcasting Company - :rolleyes
I have seen the clip of Tusk making his statement.  I have not seen the “BBC news heavily pointing out” bit you refer to.  Were you watching Newsround or something?  It’s pretty fucking obvious who Tusk is quite rightly pointing the finger at. >: >: >:
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 February 2019, 08:46:17 am

I wonder if it will affect Tusk's chances of being re-elected?.


Oh hang on I forgot, he's un-elected isn't he :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 07 February 2019, 09:16:36 am
Just for Donald Tusks information that SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL is in the battle fields of  all over Europe where millions from all over the world lay down their lives defending European freedom from tyrants and despots and lunatics.     RING ANY BELLS DONALD TUSK?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 February 2019, 11:40:16 am
Quote
Just for Donald Tusks information that SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL is in the battle fields of  all over Europe where millions from all over the world lay down their lives defending European freedom from tyrants and despots and lunatics.     RING ANY BELLS DONALD TUSK?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 February 2019, 11:42:11 am
Quote
I wonder if it will affect Tusk's chances of being re-elected?.
Oh hang on I forgot, he's un-elected isn't he
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 07 February 2019, 04:16:59 pm
mtread  I never mentioned WW2 you were just making your usual assumptions. I said battle fields and soldiers from all over the world. Including European soldiers fighting for their freedom from tyranny.  Perhaps you had conveniently forgot the Napoleonic wars of the late 1700s and early 1800s the first world war and  WW2 and probably a few more skirmishes  I have forgotten.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 February 2019, 04:49:32 pm

Every time I hear Tusk mentioned I keep thinking of the Fleetwood mac album/song that was the strange, somewhat disappointing follow-up to Rumours :guitar :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 07 February 2019, 05:12:17 pm

Every time I hear Tusk mentioned I keep thinking of the Fleetwood mac album/song that was the strange, somewhat disappointing follow-up to Rumours :guitar :lol

My favourite is -  :guitar Go your own way :guitar
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 February 2019, 05:54:33 pm
Quote
I wonder if it will affect Tusk's chances of being re-elected?.
 
 
Oh hang on I forgot, he's un-elected isn't he :lol
The European Council elects its own president. This requires a qualified majority. The president holds the post for a 2.5 year term, renewable once.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 February 2019, 06:00:30 pm
 
Quote
Just for Donald Tusks information that SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL is in the battle fields of  all over Europe where millions from all over the world lay down their lives defending European freedom from tyrants and despots and lunatics.     RING ANY BELLS DONALD TUSK?
Yes, I am sure it will Steve.  Tusk is Polish.  At the end of WW2 Poland was left to rot by the allies.  It was to be some decades before Poland regained it's freedom.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 February 2019, 06:04:29 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DywJPHAUwAAb-EC.jpg:large)
 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 February 2019, 06:25:24 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dyz1Q2SUUAA9ztB.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 07 February 2019, 07:14:49 pm
Your so right VNA Poland was another European country held against its will by  a despot  same as a lot of other countries on the eastern side of Europe.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 February 2019, 08:48:03 pm
Quote
mtread  I never mentioned WW2 you were just making your usual assumptions. I said battle fields and soldiers from all over the world. Including European soldiers fighting for their freedom from tyranny.  Perhaps you had conveniently forgot the Napoleonic wars of the late 1700s and early 1800s the first world war and  WW2 and probably a few more skirmishes  I have forgotten.
Then I don't understand the point and what comparison you are making?
What about all the English despots, and soldiers from all over the world, including within the UK, fighting their tyranny?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 February 2019, 10:09:56 pm

Quote
mtread  I never mentioned WW2 you were just making your usual assumptions. I said battle fields and soldiers from all over the world. Including European soldiers fighting for their freedom from tyranny.  Perhaps you had conveniently forgot the Napoleonic wars of the late 1700s and early 1800s the first world war and  WW2 and probably a few more skirmishes  I have forgotten.
Then I don't understand the point and what comparison you are making?


Me neither. For all their faults the EU don't bear comparison with that lot :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 February 2019, 10:46:49 pm
What is war good for?  Absolutely fuck all.
 Which is another of the great things about the European Union.  Bringing Europe together in economic and social union makes another war in what was our war-torn continent almost impossible. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 February 2019, 11:54:47 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DyzpxvnVYAA7qq6.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 February 2019, 08:38:39 am
Bringing Europe together in economic and social union makes another war in what was our war-torn continent almost impossible. 
 
Have you seen the on-going spat with France and Italy over the last few weeks, not saying they will break out in war but there certainly does not seem to be much "union" going on between them. And with the yellow vests France seems at war with its self. That lovely rosy skipping hand in hand through the daisies EU project is not going so well. Most of it is not reported through the BBC or Sky. The yellow vests have been kicking off every weekend and now a rival red scarves movement has been set up to oppose them   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 February 2019, 10:22:44 am

....and Macron's got the cheek to criticize the UK! :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 February 2019, 10:24:37 am


Every time I hear Tusk mentioned I keep thinking of the Fleetwood mac album/song that was the strange, somewhat disappointing follow-up to Rumours :guitar :lol

My favourite is -  :guitar Go your own way :guitar


 :guitar Don't stop thinking about tomorrow :guitar
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 February 2019, 11:27:30 am
Tango In The Night - Little Lies. Sums up Leave completely :lol


Actually I hated this iteration of Fleetwood Mac. Give me version 1 with Peter Green anyday  :guitar
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 February 2019, 12:08:53 pm

Tango In The Night - Little Lies. Sums up Leave completely :lol


Actually I hated this iteration of Fleetwood Mac. Give me version 1 with Peter Green anyday  :guitar


The EU has been an  :guitar Albatross :guitar around the UK's neck
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 February 2019, 12:16:15 pm
My little demons - but probably one for the remainers 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 February 2019, 02:04:11 pm
Whilst Theresa is the 'Black Magic Woman'
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 February 2019, 08:08:02 pm
 So what are folks thinking in The Republic of Ireland?
A new Sky news poll came up with the following;
Quote
Some 79 per cent of those surveyed agreed to the statement that “the Irish Government should hold out for a legal guarantee that there will be no hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland even if that risk a no-deal Brexit on March 29th”.

Quote
The EU’s stance has won favour with 63 per cent of the Irish population with just 16 per cent disapproving.

Quote
Unsurprisingly, just 6 per cent of the Irish population approved of the way the UK government is handling Brexit and nearly two-thirds believe its approach to the Brexit negotiations has been “very bad”.

Quote
The reputation of the UK has taken a battering in Ireland as a result of Brexit.

Quote
Given a choice between cutting ties economically with the UK or with the EU, 81 per cent of Irish people would rather cut economic ties with the UK than the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 February 2019, 08:34:20 pm

 :guitar Dreams :guitar


'Now here you go again, you say
You want your freedom
Well who am I to keep you down...'


Probably best to curtail the lyrics there ;) :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 08 February 2019, 09:00:55 pm

Tusk.."theres a special place in hell for brexiteers.."
moi…"yeah I know, its called the EU..."
 :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 February 2019, 09:09:43 pm
The actual quote is;
 
Quote
By the way, I have been wondering, what the special place in hell looks like for those who promoted BREXIT without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it safely.
Donald Tusk
Aside from the emotive language, he is of course correct. 



The BREXITEERS never had a clue, never gave a thought, never worked it through.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 February 2019, 10:10:31 pm
Quote
Good to see you have started calling him Tommy.....Probably best to get used to his name as I get the feeling you're going to be hearing a lot more from him....
Nah, he's still SYL, or possibly RAH. Don't think we will hear much more from him soon.


Keep  February 23rd free in your diary. Some interesting developments on the horizon and some embarrassing revelations to be made against the establishment and BBC panorama and their corrupt and fake news.
Should be interesting. :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 February 2019, 10:23:17 pm
 I think your little fascist friend might start to lose his voice sometime this year.



 
How a lawsuit against Tommy Robinson could open up a new front in the battle against the far right.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tommy-robinson-sued-jamal-crowdfuding-lawsuit-far-right-steve-bannon-milo-yiannopoulos-a8738861.html  (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tommy-robinson-sued-jamal-crowdfuding-lawsuit-far-right-steve-bannon-milo-yiannopoulos-a8738861.html)

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 February 2019, 10:45:43 pm

A new Sky news poll
Really ??  :eek   thought you were a little less naive than that.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 February 2019, 11:05:40 pm
I don't trust any MSM, they've all got their own agenda and yes VNA, he may well be silenced soon but only because the truth is never welcome in certain circles.
Whatever happens, I remain intrigued as to what he's going to expose..... We'll see.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=462869807581885&id=381971441938916
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 08 February 2019, 11:17:56 pm
Hears something that has puzzled me, why is it that the Left excite themselves by calling TR by his full Real Name- what purpose does it serve. Those who already know his full real name (from here on referenced to as SYL or to be fully correct SCYL ) are already on the side of "bring him down" but how do they expect to add to their ranks by referencing him as SCYL or even more correct SCY-L when nobody knows who SCY-L is. To further their cause wouldn't it be better to call him TR who the whole country and wider world know of.Even the BBC call him TR, perhaps because they do not want to confuse their stupid audience. 
You do get the BBC in scotland dont you VNA  :pokefun       
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 February 2019, 11:25:41 pm
Dazza, a defamation case is being brought aginst your football hooligan, racist, facist thug of a hero.What is to me really interesting is;
Quote
the lawyers are seeking to “penetrate the veil of Lennon's finances, identify and forensically trace all of Lennon's financial assets so that he does not escape the economic consequences of his defamation of others”.

Follow the money.  If this works, we are going to find out, for example, how it is that Stephen Laxley can afford to live in a million pound home.  I think this will be very intersting indeed.

So yes I do look forward to hearing more about a little fucking cunt called Laxley this year. ;)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 February 2019, 11:35:30 pm
Quote
but how do they expect to add to their ranks by referencing him as SCYL or even more correct SCY-L when nobody knows who SCY-L is.
Because that's his name (and hopefully it pisses him off) If I start calling myself Valentino Rossi, that doesn't make me Valentino Rossi.  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 February 2019, 11:38:56 pm
Quote
Tusk.."theres a special place in hell for brexiteers.."moi…"yeah I know, its called the EU..."
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 08 February 2019, 11:42:20 pm
I now see Nigel is going to start a new political party to fight the European Parliament elections in May when the UK inevitably extends Article 50.


You couldn't make this up  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 February 2019, 11:43:37 pm
Quote
but how do they expect to add to their ranks by referencing him as SCYL or even more correct SCY-L when nobody knows who SCY-L is.
Because that's his name (and hopefully it pisses him off) If I start calling myself Valentino Rossi, that doesn't make me Valentino Rossi.  :)
Nah, just stick to Walter Mitty, it suits you better  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 08 February 2019, 11:53:06 pm
Dazza, a defamation case is being brought aginst your football hooligan, racist, facist thug of a hero.What is to me really interesting is;
Quote
the lawyers are seeking to “penetrate the veil of Lennon's finances, identify and forensically trace all of Lennon's financial assets so that he does not escape the economic consequences of his defamation of others”.


Follow the money.  If this works, we are going to find out, for example, how it is that Stephen Laxley can afford to live in a million pound home.  I think this will be very intersting indeed.

So yes I do look forward to hearing more about a little fucking cunt called Laxley this year. ;)

So, the establishment are going after his money.
Of course they are. The same thing they tried to do with John Wedger after he exposed the whole sale abuse of vulnerable children in the care system by high up members of society.... Tell me something I don't know.
You're Brainwashed  dude.  Get in the real world and stop believing all the bullshit your're  force fed.
You're just not getting it, are you ?
Everybody should click on this link or the word ....sorry if that's what it shows.
This is something that all parents, decent human beings and anyone who believes in the truth should see.
The remainers on here, you're exempted, you can keep your head firmly up your own arse.


Sorry... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTklfGY3fmk#)
















Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 February 2019, 12:11:46 am
Quote
So, the establishment are going after his money.
No the people are.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 February 2019, 09:28:58 am

I now see Nigel is going to start a new political party to fight the European Parliament elections in May when the UK inevitably extends Article 50.


You couldn't make this up  :eek


The Brexit Party. I like Farage. Be good to have him centre stage again although ideally there shouldn't have been any need by this time in proceedings.


The EU are saying that the UK will take part in the elections if Brexit is delayed by at least 3 months.


Apparently the new Brexit Party are preparing for another referendum too just in case.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Oldgit on 09 February 2019, 09:39:23 am

Good old Nigel--well done son.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 09 February 2019, 11:46:36 am
I now see Nigel is going to start a new political party to fight the European Parliament elections in May when the UK inevitably extends Article 50.
You couldn't make this up  :eek

Err -that is old REAL news as I posted back in Jan 20.
If you only listen the BBC and Sky then you are not going to hear much about him.

 
"Sir Nigel" is heading up a new party called the Brexit Party in readiness to fight.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 09 February 2019, 03:09:52 pm
Quote
Err -that is old REAL news as I posted back in Jan 20.If you only listen the BBC and Sky then you are not going to hear much about him.

I try to hear about him as little as possible  :)
When Article 50 is (inevitably) postponed, and his party does stand, it's a win/win situation. Either the electorate will now be wise to him and he'll fail miserably, or it will split the Tory vote.
Looking forward to it  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 09 February 2019, 03:14:40 pm
Quote
but how do they expect to add to their ranks by referencing him as SCYL or even more correct SCY-L when nobody knows who SCY-L is.

Because that's his name (and hopefully it pisses him off) If I start calling myself Valentino Rossi, that doesn't make me Valentino Rossi. 

Of course the other time he has to use his real name is in court. Although he's also known not as 'TR' but 'TA'......... The Accused  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 February 2019, 03:28:26 pm

Quote

When Article 50 is (inevitably) postponed



Postponed for what purpose though?. I can't see a bit of extra time breaking the deadlock can you?.


I've got the solution. We stay in the EU, but we hold Remain to their word that the EU is as wonderful as they say.


The minute there's any economic down turn, job losses, factory closures etc etc...we leave the EU immediately.


Currently every bit of bad news is being blamed on Brexit, so it follows that if we stay in every bit of bad news will be the EU's fault.


Deal?



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 February 2019, 03:31:15 pm
Soz mtread, I focced the brackets up again :o
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 09 February 2019, 03:48:20 pm
Quote

When Article 50 is (inevitably) postponed
Postponed for what purpose though?. I can't see a bit of extra time breaking the deadlock can you?. I've got the solution. We stay in the EU, but we hold Remain to their word that the EU is as wonderful as they say.The minute there's any economic down turn, job losses, factory closures etc etc...we leave the EU immediately.Currently every bit of bad news is being blamed on Brexit, so it follows that if we stay in every bit of bad news will be the EU's fault.Deal?


Postponed, just to avoid crossing the deadline with No Deal. Deadlock will break at some point. Either May will persuade ERG to accept backstop (with slightly changed wording) or she'll do a deal with some of Labour. Just don't think she'll get it done by 29/3.
I'm tempted by your deal, but then you'll be blaming every bit of bad news on Remaining, even if it's nothing to do with the EU
 :)
Incidentally, this is how you do [brackets]  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: john roche on 09 February 2019, 04:36:05 pm
Hopefully Farage will split the Tory vote but sadly Corbyn is doing his best to lose Labour votes.


Cheers


John

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 February 2019, 05:29:40 pm
 
Quote
The Brexit Party. I like Farage. Be good to have him centre stage again although ideally there shouldn't have been any need by this time in proceedings.
OK, so what did you think would happen.  What is your solution to the current situation YamFazFan? 
Quote
Err -that is old REAL news as I posted back in Jan 20.
If you only listen the BBC and Sky then you are not going to hear much about him.
Really!  The BBC I think have much to answer for.  Farage is a man who has repeatedly failed to get elected to parliament.  UKIP’s only MP was a Tory defector and currently they have none.  UKIP has a mere 24,000 members (that number is currently falling fast).  Yet Farage has popped up 32 times over the years on the BBC’s flagship politics show Question Time.



And today as we slide slowly towards a possible NO DEAL catastrophic BREXIT, well UPKIP are finished.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 February 2019, 05:51:24 pm
 Here’s what, as far as I can see, are the current options,
1.       NO DEAL BREXIT – which will be economically devastating for the UK and throw us into a long term recession.  Motorcycle prices will soar. :eek :eek


 
2.       May’s deal with a tweak here and there – at the end of the day May’s withdrawal agreement is just about kicking the can down the road, it will leave the UK stuck in BREXIT mode for many years to come.  The backstop cannot be removed nor a time limit placed on it.



 
3.       A Norway Type deal – EFTA-EEA membership.  Which basically means single market access, but we would be able to leave common fisheries and Common Agricultural Policy (I presume this will require some negotiation).  It allows a generally quick settled position to be reached.  Business confidence can potentially be restored, and the government can go back to being a government again.




4.       A second referendum – I think this one is now dead.




5.       A general election – It could happen – what we have right now is a government in opposition.  This is a situation that cannot continue indefinitely.   Lifeless just now but............



6.       Cancel article 50.  The best option of all, but perhaps now the least likely of all.  Pretty much dead.

 
 
So what do people want?  Those I think are the main options.  If I have missed something then do let me know.
Me?  I’ll have option 6 please.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 February 2019, 07:18:34 pm

Quote

I'm tempted by your deal, but then you'll be blaming every bit of bad news on Remaining, even if it's nothing to do with the EU
 :) 



That's exactly what the Remainers are already doing with regards to Leave and we haven't even left yet!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 February 2019, 07:24:53 pm
Here’s what, as far as I can see, are the current options,
1.       NO DEAL BREXIT – which will be economically devastating for the UK and throw us into a long term recession.  Motorcycle prices will soar. :eek :eek


 
2.       May’s deal with a tweak here and there – at the end of the day May’s withdrawal agreement is just about kicking the can down the road, it will leave the UK stuck in BREXIT mode for many years to come.  The backstop cannot be removed nor a time limit placed on it.



 
3.       A Norway Type deal – EFTA-EEA membership.  Which basically means single market access, but we would be able to leave common fisheries and Common Agricultural Policy (I presume this will require some negotiation).  It allows a generally quick settled position to be reached.  Business confidence can potentially be restored, and the government can go back to being a government again.




4.       A second referendum – I think this one is now dead.




5.       A general election – It could happen – what we have right now is a government in opposition.  This is a situation that cannot continue indefinitely.   Lifeless just now but............



6.       Cancel article 50.  The best option of all, but perhaps now the least likely of all.  Pretty much dead.

 
 
So what do people want?  Those I think are the main options.  If I have missed something then do let me know.
Me?  I’ll have option 6 please.
Option 4.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 February 2019, 08:31:00 pm
As I was saying before I got called away because Dad's Army was starting, Option 4.....is out of the question :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 09 February 2019, 08:46:56 pm
 :lol  Thought you was having another wobble.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 February 2019, 09:38:02 pm

:lol  Thought you was having another wobble.


I think they sussed out my subterfuge dazza :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 February 2019, 10:20:57 pm
Time fae a funny :lol

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dy_GYLnX4AEieYd.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 February 2019, 10:21:42 pm
Or two :lol
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dy_G_T_X0AA3GIs.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 February 2019, 01:21:21 am
Quote
  Thought you was having another wobble.

Well if YamFazFan did wobble, it certainly wouldn't have brackets correctly spaced around it  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 10 February 2019, 08:52:29 am
A paper pushing HMRC clerk would know about brackets
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 10 February 2019, 11:57:48 am
As I was saying before I got called away because Dad's Army was starting, Option 4.....is out of the question :lol
:lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 10 February 2019, 12:32:36 pm
Quote
A paper pushing HMRC clerk would know about brackets
Is that the best you can do?   :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 February 2019, 01:27:50 pm
But this is what you guys voted for.
You critisize people for taking part in a democratic vote :rolleyes
I'd suggest you look a bit closer to home and question why those who prior to the referendum declared that they were Remain, then didn't take part.
If all those younger voters had turned out in the same numbers as the older ones Remain would more than likely have won it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 10 February 2019, 02:01:37 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 10 February 2019, 02:49:17 pm
 
Quote
You critisize people for taking part in a democratic vote ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])

 
Nope.   My criticism is that it was offered in the first place.  It should have never been offered as one, we are a representative democracy, and two, there is no advantage to being outside the EU.  It was offered in desperation by David Cameron hoping that it would allow him to hang on as PM of a minority or coalition government.  He was sure, when he offered the referendum, that he didn’t have to worry about it, cos it was never going to take place – doh!
Quote
I'd suggest you look a bit closer to home and question why those who prior to the referendum declared that they were Remain, then didn't take part.

Eh?  Scotland voted decisively to REMAIN.  Northern Ireland also voted to REMAIN.  But apparently the wishes of Northern Ireland and Scotland are to be ignored. 
Meanwhile you, YamFazFan, don’t know why you want to leave – just you want to leave.  But then you can’t tell us what BREXIT is.  See my post #2168 which I think covers the main options 1-6.  4,5and 6 look unlikely now. 
So what sort of BREXIT do you want YamFazFan.  Or do you not know that either.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 10 February 2019, 06:19:33 pm
Can anyone throw some light on article 24 of the WTO ?


I've googled it but it's all in legal jargon and you lose track pretty quick about what's it's about.


Allegedly, it gives us up to 10 years to work out a deal with the EU and in the meantime we can trade as we do now.
I don't know how true this is but if it is.....what's the rush and what does the deadline matter ?
I'm sure our resident remainers are going to rubbish it somehow but nevertheless, it makes you wonder why this hasn't been made main stream news. :rolleyes
Here's a link which sets out the principle which is easier to understand.




https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/783900/Britain-secret-Brexit-10-year-tariff-free-trade-deal-negotiations/amp (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/783900/Britain-secret-Brexit-10-year-tariff-free-trade-deal-negotiations/amp)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 10 February 2019, 06:24:20 pm
And here's the article set out as it appears on google for the brain boxes.


Yep, fucking lost me after the first few paragraphs  :lol






THE ORIGINAL MANDATE
The original GATT Article XXIV, complemented by an “Ad Art XXIV (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#ad)”, has been updated in 1994 with an Understanding (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#understanding).
Article XXIV of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT 1947)

Territorial Application — Frontier Traffic — Customs Unions and Free-trade Areas
1.     The provisions of this Agreement shall apply to the metropolitan customs territories of the contracting parties and to any other customs territories in respect of which this Agreement has been accepted under Article XXVI or is being applied under Article XXXIII or pursuant to the Protocol of Provisional Application. Each such customs territory shall, exclusively for the purposes of the territorial application of this Agreement, be treated as though it were a contracting party; Provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not be construed to create any rights or obligations as between two or more customs territories in respect of which this Agreement has been accepted under Article XXVI or is being applied under Article XXXIII or pursuant to the Protocol of Provisional Application by a single contracting party.
2.     For the purposes of this Agreement a customs territory shall be understood to mean any territory with respect to which separate tariffs or other regulations of commerce are maintained for a substantial part of the trade of such territory with other territories.
3.     The provisions of this Agreement shall not be construed to prevent:
(a)    Advantages accorded by any contracting party to adjacent countries in order to facilitate frontier traffic;
(b)    Advantages accorded to the trade with the Free Territory of Trieste by countries contiguous to that territory, provided that such advantages are not in conflict with the Treaties of Peace arising out of the Second World War.
4.     The contracting parties recognize the desirability of increasing freedom of trade by the development, through voluntary agreements, of closer integration between the economies of the countries parties to such agreements. They also recognize that the purpose of a customs union or of a free-trade area should be to facilitate trade between the constituent territories and not to raise barriers to the trade of other contracting parties with such territories.
5.      Accordingly, the provisions of this Agreement shall not prevent, as between the territories of contracting parties, the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area or the adoption of an interim agreement necessary for the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area; Providedthat:
(a)    with respect to a customs union, or an interim agreement leading to a formation of a customs union, the duties and other regulations of commerce imposed at the institution of any such union or interim agreement in respect of trade with contracting parties not parties to such union or agreement shall not on the whole be higher or more restrictive than the general incidence of the duties and regulations of commerce applicable in the constituent territories prior to the formation of such union or the adoption of such interim agreement, as the case may be;
(b)    with respect to a free-trade area, or an interim agreement leading to the formation of a free-trade area, the duties and other regulations of commerce maintained in each of the constituent territories and applicable at the formation of such free–trade area or the adoption of such interim agreement to the trade of contracting parties not included in such area or not parties to such agreement shall not be higher or more restrictive than the corresponding duties and other regulations of commerce existing in the same constituent territories prior to the formation of the free-trade area, or interim agreement as the case may be; and
(c)    any interim agreement referred to in subparagraphs (a) and (b) shall include a plan and schedule for the formation of such a customs union or of such a free-trade area within a reasonable length of time.
6.     If, in fulfilling the requirements of subparagraph 5 (a), a contracting party proposes to increase any rate of duty inconsistently with the provisions of Article II, the procedure set forth in Article XXVIII shall apply. In providing for compensatory adjustment, due account shall be taken of the compensation already afforded by the reduction brought about in the corresponding duty of the other constituents of the union.
7.     (a)      Any contracting party deciding to enter into a customs union or free-trade area, or an interim agreement leading to the formation of such a union or area, shall promptly notify the CONTRACTING PARTIES and shall make available to them such information regarding the proposed union or area as will enable them to make such reports and recommendations to contracting parties as they may deem appropriate.
      (b)      If, after having studied the plan and schedule included in an interim agreement referred to in paragraph 5 in consultation with the parties to that agreement and taking due account of the information made available in accordance with the provisions of subparagraph (a), the CONTRACTING PARTIES find that such agreement is not likely to result in the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area within the period contemplated by the parties to the agreement or that such period is not a reasonable one, the CONTRACTING PARTIES shall make recommendations to the parties to the agreement. The parties shall not maintain or put into force, as the case may be, such agreement if they are not prepared to modify it in accordance with these recommendations.
      (c)      Any substantial change in the plan or schedule referred to in paragraph 5 (c) shall be communicated to the CONTRACTING PARTIES, which may request the contracting parties concerned to consult with them if the change seems likely to jeopardize or delay unduly the formation of the customs union or of the free-trade area.
8.     For the purposes of this Agreement:
(a)    A customs union shall be understood to mean the substitution of a single customs territory for two or more customs territories, so that
(i)     duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce (except, where necessary, those permitted under Articles XI, XII, XIII, XIV, XV and XX) are eliminated with respect to substantially all the trade between the constituent territories of the union or at least with respect to substantially all the trade in products originating in such territories, and,
(ii)    subject to the provisions of paragraph 9, substantially the same duties and other regulations of commerce are applied by each of the members of the union to the trade of territories not included in the union;
(b)    A free-trade area shall be understood to mean a group of two or more customs territories in which the duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce (except, where necessary, those permitted under Articles XI, XII, XIII, XIV, XV and XX) are eliminated on substantially all the trade between the constituent territories in products originating in such territories.
9.     The preferences referred to in paragraph 2 of Article I shall not be affected by the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area but may be eliminated or adjusted by means of negotiations with contracting parties affected.* This procedure of negotiations with affected contracting parties shall, in particular, apply to the elimination of preferences required to conform with the provisions of paragraph 8 (a)(i) and paragraph 8 (b).
10.    The CONTRACTING PARTIES may by a two-thirds majority approve proposals which do not fully comply with the requirements of paragraphs 5 to 9 inclusive, provided that such proposals lead to the formation of a customs union or a free-trade area in the sense of this Article.
11.    Taking into account the exceptional circumstances arising out of the establishment of India and Pakistan as independent States and recognizing the fact that they have long constituted an economic unit, the contracting parties agree that the provisions of this Agreement shall not prevent the two countries from entering into special arrangements with respect to the trade between them, pending the establishment of their mutual trade relations on a definitive basis.*12.    Each contracting party shall take such reasonable measures as may be available to it to ensure observance of the provisions of this Agreement by the regional and local governments and authorities within its territories.
Ad Article XXIV  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
Paragraph 9
It is understood that the provisions of Article I would require that, when a product which has been imported into the territory of a member of a customs union or free-trade area at a preferential rate of duty is re-exported to the territory of another member of such union or area, the latter member should collect a duty equal to the difference between the duty already paid and any higher duty that would be payable if the product were being imported directly into its territory.
Paragraph 11
Measures adopted by India and Pakistan in order to carry out definitive trade arrangements between them, once they have been agreed upon, might depart from particular provisions of this Agreement, but these measures would in general be consistent with the objectives of the Agreement.
Understanding on the Interpretation of Article XXIV of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1994   > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
Members,
Having regard to the provisions of Article XXIV of GATT 1994;
Recognizing that customs unions and free trade areas have greatly increased in number and importance since the establishment of GATT 1947 and today cover a significant proportion of world trade;
Recognizing the contribution to the expansion of world trade that may be made by closer integration between the economies of the parties to such agreements;
Recognizing also that such contribution is increased if the elimination between the constituent territories of duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce extends to all trade, and diminished if any major sector of trade is excluded;
Reaffirming that the purpose of such agreements should be to facilitate trade between the constituent territories and not to raise barriers to the trade of other Members with such territories; and that in their formation or enlargement the parties to them should to the greatest possible extent avoid creating adverse effects on the trade of other Members;
Convinced also of the need to reinforce the effectiveness of the role of the Council for Trade in Goods in reviewing agreements notified under Article XXIV, by clarifying the criteria and procedures for the assessment of new or enlarged agreements, and improving the transparency of all Article XXIV agreements;
Recognizing the need for a common understanding of the obligations of Members under paragraph 12 of Article XXIV;
Hereby agree as follows:
1. Customs unions, free-trade areas, and interim agreements leading to the formation of a customs union or free-trade area, to be consistent with Article XXIV, must satisfy, inter alia, the provisions of paragraphs 5, 6, 7 and 8 of that Article.
Article XXIV:5  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
2. The evaluation under paragraph 5(a) of Article XXIV of the general incidence of the duties and other regulations of commerce applicable before and after the formation of a customs union shall in respect of duties and charges be based upon an overall assessment of weighted average tariff rates and of customs duties collected. This assessment shall be based on import statistics for a previous representative period to be supplied by the customs union, on a tariff-line basis and in values and quantities, broken down by WTO country of origin. The Secretariat shall compute the weighted average tariff rates and customs duties collected in accordance with the methodology used in the assessment of tariff offers in the Uruguay Round of Multilateral Trade Negotiations. For this purpose, the duties and charges to be taken into consideration shall be the applied rates of duty. It is recognized that for the purpose of the overall assessment of the incidence of other regulations of commerce for which quantification and aggregation are difficult, the examination of individual measures, regulations, products covered and trade flows affected may be required.
3. The "reasonable length of time" referred to in paragraph 5(c) of Article XXIV should exceed 10 years only in exceptional cases. In cases where Members parties to an interim agreement believe that 10 years would be insufficient they shall provide a full explanation to the Council for Trade in Goods of the need for a longer period.
Article XXIV:6  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
4. Paragraph 6 of Article XXIV establishes the procedure to be followed when a Member forming a customs union proposes to increase a bound rate of duty. In this regard Members reaffirm that the procedure set forth in Article XXVIII, as elaborated in the guidelines adopted on 10 November 1980 (BISD 27S/26-28) and in the Understanding on the Interpretation of Article XXVIII of GATT 1994, must be commenced before tariff concessions are modified or withdrawn upon the formation of a customs union or an interim agreement leading to the formation of a customs union.
5. These negotiations will be entered into in good faith with a view to achieving mutually satisfactory compensatory adjustment. In such negotiations, as required by paragraph 6 of Article XXIV, due account shall be taken of reductions of duties on the same tariff line made by other constituents of the customs union upon its formation. Should such reductions not be sufficient to provide the necessary compensatory adjustment, the customs union would offer compensation, which may take the form of reductions of duties on other tariff lines. Such an offer shall be taken into consideration by the Members having negotiating rights in the binding being modified or withdrawn. Should the compensatory adjustment remain unacceptable, negotiations should be continued. Where, despite such efforts, agreement in negotiations on compensatory adjustment under Article XXVIII as elaborated by the Understanding on the Interpretation of Article XXVIII of GATT 1994 cannot be reached within a reasonable period from the initiation of negotiations, the customs union shall, nevertheless, be free to modify or withdraw the concessions; affected Members shall then be free to withdraw substantially equivalent concessions in accordance with Article XXVIII.
6. GATT 1994 imposes no obligation on Members benefiting from a reduction of duties consequent upon the formation of a customs union, or an interim agreement leading to the formation of a customs union, to provide compensatory adjustment to its constituents.
Review of Customs Unions and Free-Trade Areas  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
7. All notifications made under paragraph 7(a) of Article XXIV shall be examined by a working party in the light of the relevant provisions of GATT 1994 and of paragraph 1 of this Understanding. The working party shall submit a report to the Council for Trade in Goods on its findings in this regard. The Council for Trade in Goods may make such recommendations to Members as it deems appropriate.
8. In regard to interim agreements, the working party may in its report make appropriate recommendations on the proposed time-frame and on measures required to complete the formation of the customs union or free-trade area. It may if necessary provide for further review of the agreement.
9. Members parties to an interim agreement shall notify substantial changes in the plan and schedule included in that agreement to the Council for Trade in Goods and, if so requested, the Council shall examine the changes.
10. Should an interim agreement notified under paragraph 7(a) of Article XXIV not include a plan and schedule, contrary to paragraph 5(c) of Article XXIV, the working party shall in its report recommend such a plan and schedule. The parties shall not maintain or put into force, as the case may be, such agreement if they are not prepared to modify it in accordance with these recommendations. Provision shall be made for subsequent review of the implementation of the recommendations.
11. Customs unions and constituents of free-trade areas shall report periodically to the Council for Trade in Goods, as envisaged by the CONTRACTING PARTIES to GATT 1947 in their instruction to the GATT 1947 Council concerning reports on regional agreements (BISD 18S/38), on the operation of the relevant agreement. Any significant changes and/or developments in the agreements should be reported as they occur.
Dispute Settlement  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
12. The provisions of Articles XXII and XXIII of GATT 1994 as elaborated and applied by the Dispute Settlement Understanding may be invoked with respect to any matters arising from the application of those provisions of Article XXIV relating to customs unions, free-trade areas or interim agreements leading to the formation of a customs union or free-trade area.
Article XXIV:12  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
13. Each Member is fully responsible under GATT 1994 for the observance of all provisions of GATT 1994, and shall take such reasonable measures as may be available to it to ensure such observance by regional and local governments and authorities within its territory.
14. The provisions of Articles XXII and XXIII of GATT 1994 as elaborated and applied by the Dispute Settlement Understanding may be invoked in respect of measures affecting its observance taken by regional or local governments or authorities within the territory of a Member. When the Dispute Settlement Body has ruled that a provision of GATT 1994 has not been observed, the responsible Member shall take such reasonable measures as may be available to it to ensure its observance. The provisions relating to compensation and suspension of concessions or other obligations apply in cases where it has not been possible to secure such observance.
15. Each Member undertakes to accord sympathetic consideration to and afford adequate opportunity for consultation regarding any representations made by another Member concerning measures affecting the operation of GATT 1994 taken within the territory of the former.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 February 2019, 06:43:36 pm

And here's the article set out as it appears on google for the brain boxes.


Yep, fucking lost me after the first few paragraphs  :lol






THE ORIGINAL MANDATE
The original GATT Article XXIV, complemented by an “Ad Art XXIV (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#ad)”, has been updated in 1994 with an Understanding (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#understanding).
Article XXIV of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT 1947)

Territorial Application — Frontier Traffic — Customs Unions and Free-trade Areas
1.     The provisions of this Agreement shall apply to the metropolitan customs territories of the contracting parties and to any other customs territories in respect of which this Agreement has been accepted under Article XXVI or is being applied under Article XXXIII or pursuant to the Protocol of Provisional Application. Each such customs territory shall, exclusively for the purposes of the territorial application of this Agreement, be treated as though it were a contracting party; Provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not be construed to create any rights or obligations as between two or more customs territories in respect of which this Agreement has been accepted under Article XXVI or is being applied under Article XXXIII or pursuant to the Protocol of Provisional Application by a single contracting party.
2.     For the purposes of this Agreement a customs territory shall be understood to mean any territory with respect to which separate tariffs or other regulations of commerce are maintained for a substantial part of the trade of such territory with other territories.
3.     The provisions of this Agreement shall not be construed to prevent:
(a)    Advantages accorded by any contracting party to adjacent countries in order to facilitate frontier traffic;
(b)    Advantages accorded to the trade with the Free Territory of Trieste by countries contiguous to that territory, provided that such advantages are not in conflict with the Treaties of Peace arising out of the Second World War.
4.     The contracting parties recognize the desirability of increasing freedom of trade by the development, through voluntary agreements, of closer integration between the economies of the countries parties to such agreements. They also recognize that the purpose of a customs union or of a free-trade area should be to facilitate trade between the constituent territories and not to raise barriers to the trade of other contracting parties with such territories.
5.      Accordingly, the provisions of this Agreement shall not prevent, as between the territories of contracting parties, the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area or the adoption of an interim agreement necessary for the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area; Providedthat:
(a)    with respect to a customs union, or an interim agreement leading to a formation of a customs union, the duties and other regulations of commerce imposed at the institution of any such union or interim agreement in respect of trade with contracting parties not parties to such union or agreement shall not on the whole be higher or more restrictive than the general incidence of the duties and regulations of commerce applicable in the constituent territories prior to the formation of such union or the adoption of such interim agreement, as the case may be;
(b)    with respect to a free-trade area, or an interim agreement leading to the formation of a free-trade area, the duties and other regulations of commerce maintained in each of the constituent territories and applicable at the formation of such free–trade area or the adoption of such interim agreement to the trade of contracting parties not included in such area or not parties to such agreement shall not be higher or more restrictive than the corresponding duties and other regulations of commerce existing in the same constituent territories prior to the formation of the free-trade area, or interim agreement as the case may be; and
(c)    any interim agreement referred to in subparagraphs (a) and (b) shall include a plan and schedule for the formation of such a customs union or of such a free-trade area within a reasonable length of time.
6.     If, in fulfilling the requirements of subparagraph 5 (a), a contracting party proposes to increase any rate of duty inconsistently with the provisions of Article II, the procedure set forth in Article XXVIII shall apply. In providing for compensatory adjustment, due account shall be taken of the compensation already afforded by the reduction brought about in the corresponding duty of the other constituents of the union.
7.     (a)      Any contracting party deciding to enter into a customs union or free-trade area, or an interim agreement leading to the formation of such a union or area, shall promptly notify the CONTRACTING PARTIES and shall make available to them such information regarding the proposed union or area as will enable them to make such reports and recommendations to contracting parties as they may deem appropriate.
      (b)      If, after having studied the plan and schedule included in an interim agreement referred to in paragraph 5 in consultation with the parties to that agreement and taking due account of the information made available in accordance with the provisions of subparagraph (a), the CONTRACTING PARTIES find that such agreement is not likely to result in the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area within the period contemplated by the parties to the agreement or that such period is not a reasonable one, the CONTRACTING PARTIES shall make recommendations to the parties to the agreement. The parties shall not maintain or put into force, as the case may be, such agreement if they are not prepared to modify it in accordance with these recommendations.
      (c)      Any substantial change in the plan or schedule referred to in paragraph 5 (c) shall be communicated to the CONTRACTING PARTIES, which may request the contracting parties concerned to consult with them if the change seems likely to jeopardize or delay unduly the formation of the customs union or of the free-trade area.
8.     For the purposes of this Agreement:
(a)    A customs union shall be understood to mean the substitution of a single customs territory for two or more customs territories, so that
(i)     duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce (except, where necessary, those permitted under Articles XI, XII, XIII, XIV, XV and XX) are eliminated with respect to substantially all the trade between the constituent territories of the union or at least with respect to substantially all the trade in products originating in such territories, and,
(ii)    subject to the provisions of paragraph 9, substantially the same duties and other regulations of commerce are applied by each of the members of the union to the trade of territories not included in the union;
(b)    A free-trade area shall be understood to mean a group of two or more customs territories in which the duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce (except, where necessary, those permitted under Articles XI, XII, XIII, XIV, XV and XX) are eliminated on substantially all the trade between the constituent territories in products originating in such territories.
9.     The preferences referred to in paragraph 2 of Article I shall not be affected by the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area but may be eliminated or adjusted by means of negotiations with contracting parties affected.* This procedure of negotiations with affected contracting parties shall, in particular, apply to the elimination of preferences required to conform with the provisions of paragraph 8 (a)(i) and paragraph 8 (b).
10.    The CONTRACTING PARTIES may by a two-thirds majority approve proposals which do not fully comply with the requirements of paragraphs 5 to 9 inclusive, provided that such proposals lead to the formation of a customs union or a free-trade area in the sense of this Article.
11.    Taking into account the exceptional circumstances arising out of the establishment of India and Pakistan as independent States and recognizing the fact that they have long constituted an economic unit, the contracting parties agree that the provisions of this Agreement shall not prevent the two countries from entering into special arrangements with respect to the trade between them, pending the establishment of their mutual trade relations on a definitive basis.*12.    Each contracting party shall take such reasonable measures as may be available to it to ensure observance of the provisions of this Agreement by the regional and local governments and authorities within its territories.
Ad Article XXIV  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
Paragraph 9
It is understood that the provisions of Article I would require that, when a product which has been imported into the territory of a member of a customs union or free-trade area at a preferential rate of duty is re-exported to the territory of another member of such union or area, the latter member should collect a duty equal to the difference between the duty already paid and any higher duty that would be payable if the product were being imported directly into its territory.
Paragraph 11
Measures adopted by India and Pakistan in order to carry out definitive trade arrangements between them, once they have been agreed upon, might depart from particular provisions of this Agreement, but these measures would in general be consistent with the objectives of the Agreement.
Understanding on the Interpretation of Article XXIV of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade 1994   > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
Members,
Having regard to the provisions of Article XXIV of GATT 1994;
Recognizing that customs unions and free trade areas have greatly increased in number and importance since the establishment of GATT 1947 and today cover a significant proportion of world trade;
Recognizing the contribution to the expansion of world trade that may be made by closer integration between the economies of the parties to such agreements;
Recognizing also that such contribution is increased if the elimination between the constituent territories of duties and other restrictive regulations of commerce extends to all trade, and diminished if any major sector of trade is excluded;
Reaffirming that the purpose of such agreements should be to facilitate trade between the constituent territories and not to raise barriers to the trade of other Members with such territories; and that in their formation or enlargement the parties to them should to the greatest possible extent avoid creating adverse effects on the trade of other Members;
Convinced also of the need to reinforce the effectiveness of the role of the Council for Trade in Goods in reviewing agreements notified under Article XXIV, by clarifying the criteria and procedures for the assessment of new or enlarged agreements, and improving the transparency of all Article XXIV agreements;
Recognizing the need for a common understanding of the obligations of Members under paragraph 12 of Article XXIV;
Hereby agree as follows:
1. Customs unions, free-trade areas, and interim agreements leading to the formation of a customs union or free-trade area, to be consistent with Article XXIV, must satisfy, inter alia, the provisions of paragraphs 5, 6, 7 and 8 of that Article.
Article XXIV:5  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
2. The evaluation under paragraph 5(a) of Article XXIV of the general incidence of the duties and other regulations of commerce applicable before and after the formation of a customs union shall in respect of duties and charges be based upon an overall assessment of weighted average tariff rates and of customs duties collected. This assessment shall be based on import statistics for a previous representative period to be supplied by the customs union, on a tariff-line basis and in values and quantities, broken down by WTO country of origin. The Secretariat shall compute the weighted average tariff rates and customs duties collected in accordance with the methodology used in the assessment of tariff offers in the Uruguay Round of Multilateral Trade Negotiations. For this purpose, the duties and charges to be taken into consideration shall be the applied rates of duty. It is recognized that for the purpose of the overall assessment of the incidence of other regulations of commerce for which quantification and aggregation are difficult, the examination of individual measures, regulations, products covered and trade flows affected may be required.
3. The "reasonable length of time" referred to in paragraph 5(c) of Article XXIV should exceed 10 years only in exceptional cases. In cases where Members parties to an interim agreement believe that 10 years would be insufficient they shall provide a full explanation to the Council for Trade in Goods of the need for a longer period.
Article XXIV:6  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
4. Paragraph 6 of Article XXIV establishes the procedure to be followed when a Member forming a customs union proposes to increase a bound rate of duty. In this regard Members reaffirm that the procedure set forth in Article XXVIII, as elaborated in the guidelines adopted on 10 November 1980 (BISD 27S/26-28) and in the Understanding on the Interpretation of Article XXVIII of GATT 1994, must be commenced before tariff concessions are modified or withdrawn upon the formation of a customs union or an interim agreement leading to the formation of a customs union.
5. These negotiations will be entered into in good faith with a view to achieving mutually satisfactory compensatory adjustment. In such negotiations, as required by paragraph 6 of Article XXIV, due account shall be taken of reductions of duties on the same tariff line made by other constituents of the customs union upon its formation. Should such reductions not be sufficient to provide the necessary compensatory adjustment, the customs union would offer compensation, which may take the form of reductions of duties on other tariff lines. Such an offer shall be taken into consideration by the Members having negotiating rights in the binding being modified or withdrawn. Should the compensatory adjustment remain unacceptable, negotiations should be continued. Where, despite such efforts, agreement in negotiations on compensatory adjustment under Article XXVIII as elaborated by the Understanding on the Interpretation of Article XXVIII of GATT 1994 cannot be reached within a reasonable period from the initiation of negotiations, the customs union shall, nevertheless, be free to modify or withdraw the concessions; affected Members shall then be free to withdraw substantially equivalent concessions in accordance with Article XXVIII.
6. GATT 1994 imposes no obligation on Members benefiting from a reduction of duties consequent upon the formation of a customs union, or an interim agreement leading to the formation of a customs union, to provide compensatory adjustment to its constituents.
Review of Customs Unions and Free-Trade Areas  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
7. All notifications made under paragraph 7(a) of Article XXIV shall be examined by a working party in the light of the relevant provisions of GATT 1994 and of paragraph 1 of this Understanding. The working party shall submit a report to the Council for Trade in Goods on its findings in this regard. The Council for Trade in Goods may make such recommendations to Members as it deems appropriate.
8. In regard to interim agreements, the working party may in its report make appropriate recommendations on the proposed time-frame and on measures required to complete the formation of the customs union or free-trade area. It may if necessary provide for further review of the agreement.
9. Members parties to an interim agreement shall notify substantial changes in the plan and schedule included in that agreement to the Council for Trade in Goods and, if so requested, the Council shall examine the changes.
10. Should an interim agreement notified under paragraph 7(a) of Article XXIV not include a plan and schedule, contrary to paragraph 5(c) of Article XXIV, the working party shall in its report recommend such a plan and schedule. The parties shall not maintain or put into force, as the case may be, such agreement if they are not prepared to modify it in accordance with these recommendations. Provision shall be made for subsequent review of the implementation of the recommendations.
11. Customs unions and constituents of free-trade areas shall report periodically to the Council for Trade in Goods, as envisaged by the CONTRACTING PARTIES to GATT 1947 in their instruction to the GATT 1947 Council concerning reports on regional agreements (BISD 18S/38), on the operation of the relevant agreement. Any significant changes and/or developments in the agreements should be reported as they occur.
Dispute Settlement  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
12. The provisions of Articles XXII and XXIII of GATT 1994 as elaborated and applied by the Dispute Settlement Understanding may be invoked with respect to any matters arising from the application of those provisions of Article XXIV relating to customs unions, free-trade areas or interim agreements leading to the formation of a customs union or free-trade area.
Article XXIV:12  > back to top (https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_art24_e.htm#top)
13. Each Member is fully responsible under GATT 1994 for the observance of all provisions of GATT 1994, and shall take such reasonable measures as may be available to it to ensure such observance by regional and local governments and authorities within its territory.
14. The provisions of Articles XXII and XXIII of GATT 1994 as elaborated and applied by the Dispute Settlement Understanding may be invoked in respect of measures affecting its observance taken by regional or local governments or authorities within the territory of a Member. When the Dispute Settlement Body has ruled that a provision of GATT 1994 has not been observed, the responsible Member shall take such reasonable measures as may be available to it to ensure its observance. The provisions relating to compensation and suspension of concessions or other obligations apply in cases where it has not been possible to secure such observance.
15. Each Member undertakes to accord sympathetic consideration to and afford adequate opportunity for consultation regarding any representations made by another Member concerning measures affecting the operation of GATT 1994 taken within the territory of the former.


Hmmm interesting. I don't understand the bit about Scotland having an opt out though?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 10 February 2019, 06:45:23 pm
Yes I have heard article 24 mentioned -I think it was a text that a listener sent in to LBC - James O Moron and was within the txt talking about numbers "article 50" ect and moron said "24 dont know what that is supposed to mean"To be fair it may not of been James (but he is still a moron) IMOYes you are right it is not ever talked about on BBC or SKY   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 10 February 2019, 09:17:31 pm
Ah, the good ole Oxford Union again.  :D




https://m.facebook.com/groups/173395309704726?view=permalink&id=776486502728934
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 11 February 2019, 04:02:55 am
And here's to Tommy bringing down the BBC.
I'd fucking love to see that. Although I suspect there's going to be more foul play along the way.  Still, whatever happens, can't wait for them to be exposed.
Proves that all the liberal lefties are digesting and regurgitating complete shit.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=148516959390021&id=381971441938916
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 11 February 2019, 05:47:03 pm
Quote from: VNA link=topic=24678.msg292247#msg292247 date=15498101
 
 [color=#ff0000
we are a representative democracy[/color]



Agreed.


So why is that when the majority of UK voters decide to leave the EU, you fail to respect that view.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 February 2019, 06:33:18 pm

Quote from: VNA link=topic=24678.msg292247#msg292247 date=15498101
 
 [color=#ff0000
we are a representative democracy[/color]



Agreed.


So why is that when the majority of UK voters decide to leave the EU, you fail to respect that view.


A referendum is direct democracy, not representative democracy.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 11 February 2019, 10:39:08 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA link=topic=24678.msg292247#msg292247 date=15498101

 
 [color=#ff0000
we are a representative democracy



Agreed.


So why is that when the majority of UK voters decide to leave the EU, you fail to respect that view.


A referendum is direct democracy, not representative democracy.



Look, will you get those foccing brackets right!
:'(
It's representative in that only elected representatives can make or change legislation.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 February 2019, 11:16:47 am

Quote
Quote from: VNA link=topic=24678.msg292247#msg292247 date=15498101

 
 [color=#ff0000
we are a representative democracy



Agreed.


So why is that when the majority of UK voters decide to leave the EU, you fail to respect that view.


A referendum is direct democracy, not representative democracy.



Look, will you get those foccing brackets right!
:'( 


 :lol I am trying :o
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 February 2019, 11:17:47 am
Yay success :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 February 2019, 08:29:58 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzJO6cTXgAExldU.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 February 2019, 11:44:44 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzEn7CxWkAA2w0K.jpg) :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 February 2019, 06:34:05 pm
Just for today  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 February 2019, 07:26:17 pm

Labour are red
Tories are blue
Remainers tell lies
Leave only true
 ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Dudeofrude on 14 February 2019, 08:28:56 pm
Democracy is dead
Our politicians suck
Leave or remain
I no longer give a fuck

Brexit has ruined Britain
No matter which side
Its done nothing for anyone
Except breed hate and divide
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 February 2019, 09:45:19 pm
Quote
Labour are red Tories are blue Remainers tell lies Leave only true
But I've got pictures. You haven't got pictures  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 February 2019, 10:15:11 pm

Quote
Labour are red Tories are blue Remainers tell lies Leave only true
But I've got pictures. You haven't got pictures  :)


Yeah, yeah OK I get the picture  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 February 2019, 10:59:44 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DzeO5NEWoAEWiA3.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 February 2019, 11:02:53 pm
Well well, what a surprise....

SIx people have been charged after a number of police officers and emergency workers were attacked at a pro-Brexit
yellow vest protest (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46851713) march in London.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-47270935 (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-47270935)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 17 February 2019, 11:40:30 pm
SIx people have been charged after a number of police officers and emergency workers were attacked at a pro-Brexit [/b]yellow vest protest (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46851713) march in London.

A couple of days ago, the right wing social media was slating children "missing school" or "playing truant" in order to protest climate change.

Today... [crickets]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 February 2019, 08:41:50 pm
Oh well, bye bye Honda.
Ain't BREXIT just swell.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 February 2019, 08:57:43 pm
Oh well, bye bye Honda.
Ain't BREXIT just swell.
Where abouts in the EU are they moving production to do you know?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 February 2019, 09:01:06 pm
Quote
Where abouts in the EU are they moving production to do you know?.
As you know they are moving production to Japan.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 February 2019, 09:12:53 pm
Quote
Where abouts in the EU are they moving production to do you know?.
As you know they are moving production to Japan.

Why not to somewhere in the EU
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 February 2019, 09:32:01 pm
Swindon IS Honda's EU factory.
90% of production is exported to the EU.
Keep kidding yourself Fazersharp.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 February 2019, 09:54:41 pm
Swindon IS Honda's EU factory.
90% of production is exported to the EU.
Keep kidding yourself Fazersharp.

I don' t get it, what am I kidding. Ok so you are saying that Swindon IS Honda's EU factory. So are you saying they are getting out of the EU full- stop and it is nothing to do with Brexit at all. 

Warning before you answer---------- Don't make me google it and find out the true story.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 February 2019, 10:21:02 pm
 The darling economist of the BREXITEERS, Proffessor Patrick Minford, has made it clear that a no deal BREXIT will see British manufacturing all but eliminated.  He says there will be a significant increase in the gap between rich and poor.
 
Two years after the vote and still nobody has a clue what BREXIT is.  In two years, we have failed to negotiate a withdrawal agreement.  That withdrawal agreement is supposed to be the agreement that allows us continued single market access whilst we negotiate BREXIT for real.
 
Businesses are losing faith in the UK.
 
Whilst it is a big shock that Honda are leaving, and a disaster for the workforce, it is hardly a surprise.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 February 2019, 10:27:18 pm
The darling economist of the BREXITEERS, Proffessor Patrick Minford, has made it clear that a no deal BREXIT will see British manufacturing all but eliminated.  He says there will be a significant increase in the gap between rich and poor.
 
Two years after the vote and still nobody has a clue what BREXIT is.  In two years, we have failed to negotiate a withdrawal agreement.  That withdrawal agreement is supposed to be the agreement that allows us continued single market access whilst we negotiate BREXIT for real.
 
Businesses are losing faith in the UK.
 
Whilst it is a big shock that Honda are leaving, and a disaster for the workforce, it is hardly a surprise.
 
Thank you for very clearly NOT answering my question.Or indeed you have very clearly answered it by the very act of not answering it. Maybe it was the threat of me actually fact checking that has put you off.Go ahead and deflect and divert -- not working here  ;)   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 February 2019, 12:52:07 am
Quote
Thank you for very clearly NOT answering my question.
They haven't announced yet. The question can't be answered, but you must admit the overall picture doesn't look good, does it?


1. 6,700 - Nissan, Sunderland
Qashqai car.

Nissan this month made a U-turn on its decision to build its new X-Trail SUV in Sunderland because of Brexit and a slump in diesel demand.
2. 4,000 - Bentley, Crewe
Volkswagen-owned Bentley is stockpiling parts and new vehicles imported to the UK
3. 2,600 - Toyota, Burnaston
Toyota and suppliers are stockpiling, but it has warned that a no-deal Brexit would result in ‘stop/start’ production at Burnaston
4. 9,100 - JLR, Solihull
Jaguar Land Rover will close its plants for a week in April. Britain’s biggest carmaker said it will lose 4,500 jobs from its global workforce, the majority of them management roles in the UK at sites including Coventry and Gaydon. The company will start a voluntary redundancy programme
5. 850 - Aston Martin, Gaydon
Aston Martin Lagonda is holding five days of buffer stocks of engines, and is preparing to fly in components from abroad
6. 1,225 - Vauxhall, Luton
Vauxhall will shut this plant temporarily in March as it prepares for the new Vivaro van
7. 8,600 - BMW, at four sites
BMW’s Mini, Rolls-Royce and other component factories will bring forward annual planned maintenance to April
8. 1,930 - Ford, Bridgend
Ford last month announced 400 job cuts at its Bridgend plant as it seeks to return to profit in Europe after warning on Brexit
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 February 2019, 07:58:55 am

Quote
Thank you for very clearly NOT answering my question.
They haven't announced yet. The question can't be answered, but you must admit the overall picture doesn't look good, does it?


I agree, the overall picture in the EU doesn't look good.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 February 2019, 08:57:10 am

Quote
Thank you for very clearly NOT answering my question.
They haven't announced yet. The question can't be answered


It can now. A commercial decision, nothing to do with Brexit :) .


I'd be more concerned with The Labour Party tearing itself apart at the moment if I were you ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 February 2019, 09:37:35 am

Oh well, bye bye Honda.
Ain't BREXIT just swell.


I'd have LOVED to have seen your reaction when you heard the Honda statement this morning. I bet it was priceless!. Did the air turn a subtle shade of blue? :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 19 February 2019, 09:48:30 am
no pain, no gain.. :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 February 2019, 11:00:10 am
No gain  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 February 2019, 11:02:19 am
There is one consolation for Labour though. They might have lost 7 MP's, but at least they've got Derek Hatton back :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 19 February 2019, 12:34:44 pm
ooh I remember that foccer very well. If ever there was a whiny/petulant/shouty voice to put you off the scouse accent for life it was degsy. Christ he makes Corbyn look like an ardent right winger...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 February 2019, 08:29:30 pm
Quote
I'd have LOVED to have seen your reaction when you heard the Honda statement this morning. I bet it was priceless!. Did the air turn a subtle shade of blue? ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

 Hmmm, I wonder what has changed.
Keeping kidding yourself if you want.



Quote
no pain, no gain.. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

The pain is Ogri as  Proffessor Patrick Minford pointed out, the almost total destruction of British manufactuering.  Considerable hardship for the working classes. 



The gain is in city institutions as the UK becomes a tax free haven for the rich. 

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 February 2019, 10:07:28 pm
Quote
There is one consolation for Labour though. They might have lost 7 MP's, but at least they've got Derek Hatton back
Apparently there are so many ex UKIP members joining local Conservative parties, the Tories are being known as 'Bluekip'. Objective to oust Remainer and Soft Brexit Tories. Expect the Tories to lose MPs soon, especially as this shit storm continues to run.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 February 2019, 06:12:52 am
Quote
There is one consolation for Labour though. They might have lost 7 MP's, but at least they've got Derek Hatton back
Apparently there are so many ex UKIP members joining local Conservative parties, the Tories are being known as 'Bluekip'. Objective to oust Remainer and Soft Brexit Tories. Expect the Tories to lose MPs soon, especially as this shit storm continues to run.
Make that 8. Another one's gone. She's sick of the anti-semitism that's rife in Labour apparently.

Truly 'The Nasty Party' now :(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: john roche on 20 February 2019, 09:53:28 am
To join the 'funny tinge' party!

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 February 2019, 10:31:56 am

To join the 'funny tinge' party!


Yeah I couldn't believe that one came out with such a thing!.


But remember she was elected a Labour MP, supporting the Labour manifesto. She's only been in the independent group a few days. Why are Labour so full of hate :(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 20 February 2019, 10:54:18 am
The most reasonable thing to do for the leaving MPS is to stand down and trigger a by election, after all, they used the party to become MPs. However, they all realise that only rarely do independent candidates get elected in the UK. Most , if not all, would fall into that category. They are simply hanging onto the gravy train. If all of this leads to some sort of realignment in the political organisation of the nation, that may be no bad thing, since the present system is outdated and corrupted
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 20 February 2019, 12:57:03 pm
The most reasonable thing to do for the leaving MPS is to stand down and trigger a by election, after all, they used the party to become MPs. However, they all realise that only rarely do independent candidates get elected in the UK. Most , if not all, would fall into that category. They are simply hanging onto the gravy train. If all of this leads to some sort of realignment in the political organisation of the nation, that may be no bad thing, since the present system is outdated and corrupted


Looks like three Tories have joined them.  As Agricola says they are just hanging onto that gravy train, who wouldn't want to hang onto that £77,000  salary and expense account  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 February 2019, 02:38:15 pm
Quote
She's sick of the anti-semitism that's rife in Labour apparently.Truly 'The Nasty Party' now

Compared with a Government that can revoke ISIS girl's citizenship in five minutes but can't give it to Windrush immigrants who have been here 50 years. Denying one of cancer treatment because he had lost the papers proving he came here as a child. The Tories will always be the Nasty Party.
I see also 3 Tories have left this morning suggesting the government has been taken over by UKIP. Not the One Nation Conservatives May promised eh?  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 February 2019, 03:10:54 pm
Some friends heading over to France and Spain after March, have been told :


They'll need an International Driving Permit
By their insurance company that they'll need a Green Card
By a company in France running off road events that they may have to cancel as their insurance won't cover non EU citizens


Welcome to the real Brexit Britain  :\ [size=78%] [/size]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 20 February 2019, 04:31:53 pm

Make that 8. Another one's gone. She's sick of the anti-semitism that's rife in Labour apparently.

Truly 'The Nasty Party' now :(
Cambridge Dictionary give two meanings for anti-semitism:In UK Englishanti-semitism: the strong dislike or cruel and unfair treatment of Jewish people.
In American English
anti-semitism: hate or strong dislike of Jews, or actions that express hate or dislike of Jews
I did not think the Labour Party being a left wing were anti Jews.

Racist maybe, but anti Semitic unlikely :lol
Just another excuse to break away. :eek 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 20 February 2019, 06:22:42 pm
Odd isnt it, how members from the 2 major parties can now join the same independent party. One suspects that the ex labour people were always free market capitalists anyway, and sat uncomfortably in the labour group. Blairites i reckon. Good riddance. All Remoaners.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 20 February 2019, 06:31:25 pm


yup. especially that godawful soubry woman..
btw
I think That old Blairite thing of just keep denyin it no matter how much the evidence is wearing pretty thin now
But Jeremy Corbyn is an anti seminite, thereby a racist
no hes not
hes an ira sympaphiser
no hes not
He has expressed sympathy with other terrorist groups too
no he hasn't
Hes a remainer
no hes not
a leaver then
nope
The labour party are the real nasty party
no their not.


right... :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 February 2019, 07:16:40 pm
Quote
Odd isnt it, how members from the 2 major parties can now join the same independent party. One suspects that the ex labour people were always free market capitalists anyway, and sat uncomfortably in the labour group. Blairites i reckon. Good riddance. All Remoaners.
Just on a technicality it's not a party.... yet  :)
What I wasn't aware was that there were a bunch of undercover socialists in the Conservative party. Always uncomfortable with the Hostile Environment May and now Javid enjoy.
Seriously, both major parties have lurched to the right and left. The ERG and DUP are the Tory's Momentum.
Perhaps this is just what we need, an end to confrontational politics.
Oh and great they are all Remainers. No Brexshiteers  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 February 2019, 07:26:37 pm

What I wasn't aware was that there were a bunch of undercover socialists in the Conservative party.
Yes it's quite incredible what passes some people by. For example, unfazed wasn't aware of the anti-Semitism in the Labour Party

3 of the Labour MP's who are part of the new independent party....
" Anti-Semitism is rife and tolerated"
"Labour is riddled with anti-Semitism"
"I cannot remain in a party that I have come to the conclusion is institutionally anti-Semitic"


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 20 February 2019, 07:47:55 pm
Why is it called anti-Semitism IT JUST PLAIN RACISM AGAINST JEWISH PEOPLE  lets call it what it is and non of us should put up with RACISM. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 February 2019, 07:48:35 pm
Quote
But Jeremy Corbyn is an anti seminite, thereby a racistno hes nothes an ira sympaphiserno hes notHe has expressed sympathy with other terrorist groups toono he hasn't

Just to flip the coin over.....
May is actually supported by a party which includes UDA terrorists
The Tories supported apartheid in South Africa and wanted Nelson Mandela hanged...... as a 'terrorist'
The Conservative party is riddled with Islamaphobia
So May and her party are not squeaky clean. We can all point the finger when it suits us.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 February 2019, 08:04:16 pm
The hard  left spend their whole lives finger pointing. Consumed by hatred and chippyness (is that a word?..... It is now :lol )
A lot of them remind me of Rick from The Young Ones, but a version of him that aged and never really grew up. That twerp that door stepped Jacob rees-mogg is the PERFECT example. What a twat  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 February 2019, 08:50:23 pm
Quote
The hard  left spend their whole lives finger pointing. Consumed by hatred and chippyness
You could be describing the hard right (not sure about chippyness though).
The ones that doorstepped Anna Soubry were..... frightening (and now prosecuted)  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 February 2019, 09:10:27 pm
 
Quote
The Tories supported apartheid in South Africa and wanted Nelson Mandela hanged...... as a 'terrorist'
Whilst Corbyn was arrested at anti-apartheid protests.
Quote
Yes it's quite incredible what passes some people by. For example, unfazed wasn't aware of the anti-Semitism in the Labour Party
 
3 of the Labour MP's who are part of the new independent party....
" Anti-Semitism is rife and tolerated"
"Labour is riddled with anti-Semitism"
"I cannot remain in a party that I have come to the conclusion is institutionally anti-Semitic"
And no doubt like most others they can't come up with any credible evidence of such ‘anti-Semitism'.
The truth is that those sympathetic to Israel, for example pretty much all Tories, are up in arms at the thought of, and for the first time, a British government highly critical of the apartheid racist state of Israel.  That is what it is about.  The Labour party is rightly riddled with MP’s and members critical of Israel and supportive of Palestine, but the Labour party is not riddled with ‘anti-Semitism’. 



Ask for the evidence of 'anti-semitism' and you will find little or none.  (just updated that to make it clearer VNA)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 20 February 2019, 09:40:16 pm
And no doubt like most others they can't come up with any credible evidence of such ‘anti-Semitism'.
The truth is that those sympathetic to Israel, for example pretty much all Tories, are up in arms at the thought of, and for the first time, a British government highly critical of the apartheid racist state of Israel.  That is what it is about.  The Labour party is rightly riddled with MP’s and members critical of Israel and supportive of Palestine, but the Labour party is not riddled with ‘anti-Semitism’. 



Ask for the evidence and you will find little or none.



Fair point
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 February 2019, 09:47:09 pm
 
Quote
Odd isnt it, how members from the 2 major parties can now join the same independent party. One suspects that the ex labour people were always free market capitalists anyway, and sat uncomfortably in the labour group. Blairites i reckon.

Indeed, hence they feel comfortable sitting down with Tories.  This looks like an attempt to re-create New Labour.


I mean Chuka Umunna – a Tory in the Labour party or what.  Good riddance.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 20 February 2019, 09:58:31 pm

What I wasn't aware was that there were a bunch of undercover socialists in the Conservative party.
Yes it's quite incredible what passes some people by. For example, unfazed wasn't aware of the anti-Semitism in the Labour Party

3 of the Labour MP's who are part of the new independent party....
" Anti-Semitism is rife and tolerated"
"Labour is riddled with anti-Semitism"
"I cannot remain in a party that I have come to the conclusion is institutionally anti-Semitic"
I think you totally missed the intended sarcasm  :'( :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 February 2019, 10:13:09 pm


What I wasn't aware was that there were a bunch of undercover socialists in the Conservative party.
Yes it's quite incredible what passes some people by. For example, unfazed wasn't aware of the anti-Semitism in the Labour Party

3 of the Labour MP's who are part of the new independent party....
" Anti-Semitism is rife and tolerated"
"Labour is riddled with anti-Semitism"
"I cannot remain in a party that I have come to the conclusion is institutionally anti-Semitic"
I think you totally missed the intended sarcasm  :'( :rollin


Yep my apologies :o .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: celticdog on 20 February 2019, 10:23:32 pm
Splinter groups meh it's been tried before. Anyone remember the SDP? The gang of four, never amounted to much and they where much higher profile politicians than the Blairite goons of today.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 February 2019, 11:05:06 pm
Quote
I mean Chuka Umunna – a Tory in the Labour party or what.  Good riddance.
Now on that point I will have to disagree  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 February 2019, 11:06:21 pm
 
Quote
Splinter groups meh it's been tried before. Anyone remember the SDP?

Aye, I remember that.  Thought I should add I was still at school at the time.   :lol



Dunno if you saw Anna Soubry being interviewed by Kirsty Wark on newsnight this evening.  It was literally laugh out loud funny.  I mean seriously surreal and wet your pants funny (well for political anoraks anyway)



I dunno where this is going.  There are the Tories in the Labour party who just can’t shift Jeremy, then there’s the REMAINERS banging their heids against the wall in frustration at his refusal to stop BREXIT.


On the other side there is a majority in the Tory party who may refuse the whip come a NO DEAL scenario.


And in the meantime big companies like Honda have lost patience, have decided the UK is a lost cause and are about to foc off.


Oh the joys of BREXIT. :)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 20 February 2019, 11:11:35 pm
At least we got our bikes mate, and summer is coming... :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 February 2019, 11:41:14 pm
Quote
On the other side there is a majority in the Tory party who may refuse the whip come a NO DEAL scenario.
Dominic Grieve just said so on Newsnight
What worries me most is May's tactics. I'm convinced she won't let No Deal happen, but she's not telling anybody. She's getting more desperate by the minute to keep the ERG and DUP on side hoping that the EU will give her some weasel words. But they won't. She's delaying and delaying hoping for a thin majority in Parliament to support her deal, but there are now so many conflicting groups the numbers aren't at all clear.
As a result she's gambling big time taking us to the brink and no sign of a plan. We're doomed
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 February 2019, 11:52:07 pm
 We’re doomed, aye we’re aw doomed, ah tell ye, foccin doomed!
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 February 2019, 11:58:58 pm
Quote
At least we got our bikes mate, and summer is coming... ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

Have you seen what they call foccin summer up here?
 Yes well, if you still have a job.  If you are able to pay for the increased cost in motorcycles.   And yeah, I may have to make do wi ma 2004 thou as new bike prices slip oot o reach. 



There’s always the 74 C90 hiding in the corner of the garage if things get real bad. 



BREXIT, what a joy.  Thanks orgri, thanks for voting for mass poverty.  Thanks for making us all poorer 8)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 February 2019, 12:24:00 am
Quote
We’re doomed, aye we’re aw doomed, ah tell ye, foccin doomed!
Now look here. We don't want that sort of talk round here Fraser!   ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 February 2019, 07:34:03 am

And in the meantime big companies like Honda have lost patience, have decided the UK is a lost cause and are about to foc off.


Oh the joys of BREXIT. :)


In their statement Honda said it was nothing to do with Brexit. Are you saying that they are lying?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 February 2019, 07:38:00 am


BREXIT, what a joy.  Thanks orgri, thanks for voting for mass poverty.  Thanks for making us all poorer 8)


The other day you said you didn't blame the electorate and it was the fault of those who granted the people a referendum in the first place.


Why the change of mind?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 February 2019, 08:09:49 am

but the Labour party is not riddled with ‘anti-Semitism’. 



Ask for the evidence of 'anti-semitism' and you will find little or none.  (just updated that to make it clearer VNA)


You might like to think that this is a non-issue, but to those on the receiving end of the vile abuse it's sadly all too real.


Shocking attitude.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 February 2019, 08:15:49 am
Quote
You critisize people for taking part in a democratic vote ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])

 
Nope.   My criticism is that it was offered in the first place.  It should have never been offered
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 February 2019, 11:05:59 am
Some of the group of 11 want a "peoples vote" yet wont put themselves forward for re -election after leaving the party on which they gained their seat  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 February 2019, 11:06:57 am
Anna Soubery is on LBC as the presenter right now.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 21 February 2019, 11:13:54 am


BREXIT, what a joy.  Thanks orgri, thanks for voting for mass poverty.  Thanks for making us all poorer 8)






No, hes right, its all my fault. Its like when all those middle class corbynista kids at uni tell me about what its like for poor people in this country, as they turn up in their new cars (despite never having worked a day in their lives)that the "Brexit loving Nazi capitalist pigs" (their parents) have bought them. Me, having watched my mum go without food as a kid to feed me and my sisters, I aint got a fucking clue.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 February 2019, 11:31:29 am
Quote
In their statement Honda said it was nothing to do with Brexit. Are you saying that they are lying?.
Yes.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 February 2019, 12:45:57 pm
Quote
[size=78%]Some of the group of 11 want a "peoples vote" yet wont put themselves forward for re -election after leaving the party on which they gained their seat [/size][/size][size=78%] [/size][/size]
[size=78%]
The ERG left the Conservative Party months ago [/size]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 21 February 2019, 02:59:14 pm
who was it that said "politics is just showbusiness for ugly people"... :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 February 2019, 03:10:49 pm

The first rule of Remain...


Any bad news is because of Brexit.


Any good news is because Brexit hasn't happened yet.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 February 2019, 04:49:10 pm
Quote
The first rule of Remain...
Any bad news is because of Brexit.
Any good news is because Brexit hasn't happened yet.
Have you finally got it at last, or have you been on the juice again?  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 February 2019, 04:51:02 pm
Quote
who was it that said "politics is just showbusiness for ugly people"...
They've just been shown a picture of Boris in his pants  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 February 2019, 05:31:38 pm

Some of the group of 11 want a "peoples vote" yet wont put themselves forward for re -election after leaving the party on which they gained their seat  :rolleyes


They hate democracy though. They've cheated their constituents out of what they voted for and now they're trying to cheat the 17.5 million Leave voters out of their result too :\
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 February 2019, 06:05:59 pm

who was it that said "politics is just showbusiness for ugly people"... :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol


That's odd. I can only count 11 faces in the picture. Should be 22 :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 February 2019, 07:17:22 pm
 
Quote
In their statement Honda said it was nothing to do with Brexit. Are you saying that they are lying?
Honda don’t do politics.  Japanese firms also have a completely different philosophy to business than we do in the west.  Honour and trust are at the forefront of everything they do, and delivering on commitments is a matter of personal responsibility.  In the west we tie everything up in complex legal contracts, whereas the Japanese keep that side of things very simple.


It’s worth noting, that as far as I can figure out, Honda in decades of operating abroad have never closed one major facility or factory.  Swindon is the first.  But yet only 6mnths ago they conformed their long-term commitment to it.


Some of you may also remember Hondas earlier car manufacturing days in the UK and their projects with BL Triumph and later partnership with Rover.  The then Tory government allowed owners British Aerospace to sell Rover to BMW from right under Hondas nose.  In the process BMW got it’s hands on a shit load of Honda technology.  If the Tories hadn’t of done that Rover would today would be a top-quality car manufacturer.


I think considering the history, Honda have just decided the mad and eccentric English are just too much bother.  BREXIT is bonkers, it undermines Swindon production, so bye bye HONDA.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 February 2019, 07:19:47 pm
 
Quote
Some of the group of 11 want a "peoples vote" yet wont put themselves forward for re -election after leaving the party on which they gained their seat  :rolleyes
 
In the UK system you vote for the candidate, not the party.  And personally, I always place the most importance on the candidate and not the party.   
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 February 2019, 07:24:43 pm
 
Quote
No, hes right, its all my fault.
Of course I am Ogri. :D   It’s all your foccin fault. :wall   At the end of the day we have to blame somebody, and right now you’ll do just nicely. >: >: >:


 :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 February 2019, 08:09:51 pm
Thinking about it we have had 3 votes to leave.1st when Camoron said that he would call a referendum - we voted yes please.2nd when we actually had the vote and said leave please.3rd when May called a general election on the ticket of "brexit means brexit" so we put her back.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 21 February 2019, 09:53:34 pm
Quote
No, hes right, its all my fault.
Of course I am Ogri. :D   It’s all your foccin fault. :wall   At the end of the day we have to blame somebody, and right now you’ll do just nicely. >: >: >:


 :lol

Im starting to wonder if your related to my first wife.. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 February 2019, 10:29:24 am
Quote
.3rd when May called a general election on the ticket of "brexit means brexit" so we put her back.
Ah, but we didn't did we? In fact we didn't give her enough votes to form a government. Neither did we vote for a bunch of homophobic religious bigots who are keeping her in power.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 22 February 2019, 12:01:38 pm
Quote
.3rd when May called a general election on the ticket of "brexit means brexit" so we put her back.
Neither did we vote for a bunch of homophobic religious bigots who are keeping her in power.


What! You think there is a bunch  of  Islamists keeping May in power ?





Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 February 2019, 01:59:28 pm
 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 22 February 2019, 04:26:43 pm

 Neither did we vote for a bunch of homophobic religious bigots who are keeping her in power.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
Spare a thought for the poor devils in Northern Ireland who have to put up with them all the time  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 February 2019, 05:16:35 pm
Ian Austin MP has quit Labour today.

He's citing the extremism, intolerance and anti-Semitism. What a disgrace they are now :( . Truly The Nasty Party.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 February 2019, 06:39:45 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dz9k45NWkAA9CbV.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 22 February 2019, 11:34:32 pm
Quote
He's citing the extremism, intolerance and anti-Semitism. What a disgrace they are now . Truly The Nasty Party

As you keep saying  :rolleyes And as I keep saying, they're not a patch on the Tories. As Anna Soubry said 'she hasn't left the party, the party has left her'.
Bluekip is falling apart and now 3 of May's senior ministers defy government policy.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 February 2019, 12:14:48 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0C1-ZtWwAIVRWe.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Val on 23 February 2019, 01:37:16 am
Anything you'll ever need to know in one video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNRx3vQuvsY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNRx3vQuvsY)

Producing a number  :lol :lol :lol

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 February 2019, 10:15:41 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0C1-ZtWwAIVRWe.jpg)
Actually the younger generation on the continent as a whole are not happy with the EU and especially the Euro.
I wonder if the UKs kids are (it would be said by remainers) for the EU because they have just finished or are still in the liberal left EU biased brainwashing education system       
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 February 2019, 03:39:21 pm
Quote
Actually the younger generation on the continent as a whole are not happy with the EU and especially the Euro
And your evidence for this assumption is......?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 February 2019, 05:22:09 pm
Quote
Actually the younger generation on the continent as a whole are not happy with the EU and especially the Euro
And your evidence for this assumption is......?
Quote
Actually the younger generation on the continent as a whole are not happy with the EU and especially the Euro
And your evidence for this assumption is......?
Fact, google it yourself.
Spain Portugal Poland Finland Greece Italy the young are not happy with the EU despite attempts by "Their excellencies" to bribe them with free rail cards and the Youth Guarantee, aimed at getting school-leavers into a "quality" first job, and Erasmus+, which offers grants to study or get work experience in another EU country.  The rise of anti EU parties - recently Finland promising their own Brexit - Fixit.
By this rate half of the EU will of left before we do.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 February 2019, 07:12:46 pm
 
Quote
Anything you'll ever need to know in one video:

 


Producing a number  (http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif) (http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif) (http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif)

Foccin excellant :lol :lol :lol

   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 February 2019, 02:49:21 am
Quote
Fact, google it yourself.
Do all those countries have the Mail and Express too then?  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 February 2019, 01:03:37 pm
More on Honda;
Quote
It will be in similar lodges around Tokyo that Brexit’s impact on Japan’s UK investments will now be discussed. In the 1980s this is where consensus was reached that Margaret Thatcher’s commitment to the European single market and customs union, along with her labour market reforms, offered a major opportunity for Japanese business. It would allow Britain to be the place where Japan could develop its famed “just-in-time” delivery system by sourcing production across Europe, without tariffs, regulatory and customs checks, and foster the recruitment and management of talent Europe-wide. They took her at her word, and the investment boom that has transformed the British car industry was born.
Quote
Today, a new Japanese consensus has formed. The Conservative party and its leaders cannot be trusted. They ignore warnings, break their word and do not understand business – personified by Old Etonians Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg. Brexit is a first-order disaster, striking at the heart of how Japanese companies organise themselves as “lean manufacturers”. As Honda’s Patrick Keating, its European government affairs manager, briefed  (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/21/honda-european-chief-outlined-no-deal-brexit-concerns-in-2018)a meeting in Swindon in September, Brexit is likely to interrupt the just-in-time delivery of 2 million parts a day – a fifth of which come from EU suppliers. Those suppliers would have to fill out 60,000 customs declaration forms a year, he warned. One in five of its UK workforce are EU nationals. The world of tariff-free barriers – access to the EU’s free-trade agreements with other countries, and ability to move staff between countries promised by Thatcher – has evaporated in front of Honda’s eyes. Yes, it was operating below capacity, but within the EU Honda could have taken a long-term view and braved the downturn. Brexit forced the plant’s closure and the decision to produce in Japan (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/18/carmaker-honda-plans-to-close-swindon-factory-reports).
  Will Hutton (political economist, academic administrator, and journalist)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/24/japan-brexit-honda-nissan-liam-fox (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/24/japan-brexit-honda-nissan-liam-fox)


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 24 February 2019, 03:09:41 pm
Amazing, you've called it correct AGAIN :eek . Despite what we were all told by the Honda boss, you just knew didn't you ;) . It HAD to be that pesky Brexit and it was!.
I don't know how you do it. Right EVERY time :eek .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 24 February 2019, 04:57:19 pm
YamFazFan  VNA IS JUST A WIND UP ARTIST DON'T FALL FOR HIS CRAP
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 February 2019, 07:21:43 pm
Quote
Amazing, you've called it correct AGAIN ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) . Despite what we were all told by the Honda boss, you just knew didn't you ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url]) . It HAD to be that pesky Brexit and it was!.
I don't know how you do it. Right EVERY time ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) .

 Looks like May is going to do everything she possibly can to force MP’s to vote for her ‘deal’.  A deal that effectively kicks the can down the road.  A deal that means many more years of doing BREXIT.  A deal that will leave industry facing long term uncertainty as to what our eventual long term relationship with the single market will be.


Unless the UK quickly reaches a settled position, ie some sort of Norway deal, or cancelling article ‘50’ you are doing to see more and more companies like Honda throwing in the towel and leaving the UK.  Nobody can commit to major investment in manufacturing in the UK without knowing what long-term access they have to the biggest tariff free, quota free, customs free market in the world that just so happens to be on our doorstep.


As the pro-Brexit economist Minford states a No Deal Brexit means UK manufacturing will be all but wiped out.  And the truth is with May’s deal will deliver much the same outcome.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 February 2019, 08:04:24 pm
Quote
Looks like May is going to do everything she possibly can to force MP’s to vote for her ‘deal’.
I think that was her plan all along. 'No Deal' was never going to happen, it's just being used to frighten MPs and us. That together with 'ongoing talks with the EU' to run the clock down so that everyone will be so 'grateful' a deal is in place.
Ignoring everybody else, she always had the problem of squaring the ERG with the DUP. The ERG don't want any part of the UK to be in a Customs Union. The DUP need NI to be in alignment with Eire, but not to be treated differently to the rest of the UK. Two mutually incompatible requirements
As you say, if there's a deal that is just the start of 2+ years of negotiation of what kind of long term arrangements we have with the EU. Is it EFTA, EEC, Norway, Norway +, Canada etc etc. The trouble is it's inevitably going to be a deal that nobody is happy with, not Brexiteers or Remainers. We will have to take rules from the EU and probably pay in, but lose most of the benefits of full membership.
Prepare for 1. Two more years of this crap and 2. To be eventually disappointed at the outcome.
We're all in this together (as someone once said)  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 February 2019, 08:24:54 pm
Quote
As you say, if there's a deal that is just the start of 2+ years of negotiation of what kind of long term arrangements we have with the EU.
I cannot see the backstop being removed from May's deal.  And considering it has taken us well over two years to fail, so far, to get a withdrawl agreement in place - well really what chance is there, if some sort of May deal goes through, of us actually being able to negotiate BREXIT for real.  2 years?  No way.  We could be doing this for the next decade.
We could be stuck with effectively no government for years.
Manufactuering will be wiped out in the UK. 

And no wonder Honda have focced off.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 February 2019, 08:37:14 pm
I made a mistake above. The ERG don't want any part of the England to be in a Customs Union. They couldn't give a foc about the rest of the UK.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 February 2019, 10:01:54 pm
Quote
I made a mistake above. The ERG don't want any part of the England to be in a Customs Union. They couldn't give a foc about the rest of the UK.
Which could leave Scotland with a lot of thinking to do and maybe a second Independence referendum.  We need to be in the single market.  Though that may mean a hard border with England, it is fairly straightforward compared to Ireland’s porous border between north and south.  If we upgrade our east coast ports, we’d be in a position to attract manufacturing business up across the border from the north of England.


With the impact, if there is no quick settled deal, in Northern Ireland, I believe people there, the protestant population, will very much begin to realise that their future lies with Eire.  They might just wake up and realise that their Tory friends at the end of the day don't give a flying foc about them.  No deal or May’s deal could lead eventually to both Scotland and Northern Ireland leaving the UK.   Britain would be no more.



One way or another, right now I see no end to this BREXIT madness.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 24 February 2019, 10:05:04 pm
I think we oughtta bin this thread now, and the jihadi bird one too. weathers changing, summers coming, we can all start enjoying the bikes again and stop being stir crazy and menstrual.. :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 24 February 2019, 10:06:40 pm
I mean, did you lot get out today? Wales was fuggin glorious, especially now me 'onda has got brakes.. :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 February 2019, 10:22:07 pm
Quote
I think we oughtta bin this thread now, and the jihadi bird one too. weathers changing, summers coming, we can all start enjoying the bikes again and stop being stir crazy and menstrual.. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

 I think we are stuck wi the BREXIT one.  And it is to some degree relevant to biking.  Both in terms of the price of new bikes, which have already shot up in price as a result of the BREXIT vote and for those taking biking holidays in the EU.


But the Jihad Brides return to U.K! thread, well yeah, what the foc is it doing here?    I mean there’s Twitter and plenty of political forums if you want to discuss, vent your fury or shit stir.


 
Summer is coming?  It’s foccing February, it’s the middle of winter, though yeah it’s strangely mild up here too.  Bloody global warming is robbing us of proper winters.  Oh no I’m gonna have the climate change deniers spewing pish noo.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 24 February 2019, 10:24:54 pm
fuck me you agreed with me on one out of three!!! your getting soft feller...… ;) :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 February 2019, 10:26:54 pm
Quote
fuck me you agreed with me on one out of three!!! your getting soft feller...… ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

I agree that having brakes on yer motorcycle is a jolly good thing too! :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 24 February 2019, 10:27:43 pm

 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 February 2019, 11:14:40 pm
Not today, was out all yesterday and it was glorious here in the east (once the fog had lifted). Traffic today was terrible with everybody heading for Sunny Sarfend.
My Tiger has new brakes front and back, which seem to have bedded in quite well  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 24 February 2019, 11:14:53 pm
Bloody global warming
 
No such thing -- its a fake
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 February 2019, 11:20:14 pm
Don't start  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 February 2019, 11:31:16 pm
Febuary and no sking in Scotland.  Not normal.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 25 February 2019, 08:24:56 pm

you couldn't ski this year?


my heart bleeds. bloody champagne socialists... ;)
btw fazersharp is right again, theres no such thing as global warming, just the planets regular time cycle... :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 25 February 2019, 08:57:12 pm
I feel it's time to start a new thread for VNA and MTREAD  on global warming or will I get thrown off the forum
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 February 2019, 09:09:29 pm
No don't. I can only argue on 2 threads at a time, otherwise I get confused  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 25 February 2019, 09:09:54 pm
 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 25 February 2019, 09:10:45 pm
Anyhoo theres no need to start a thread, we all know global warming is bollox.. :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 February 2019, 09:20:50 pm
Quote
you couldn't ski this year?
No but I like a winter hill walk.
Though thanks to a really bad cold in December, shingles in January, then foccing my knee in February and now long hours at work – well not much winter walking for me, and apparently a severe lack of snow.(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8198/8230050675_171fbb7ba7_c.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 February 2019, 09:24:00 pm
Oh the UK has just had it's warmest February day since records began.
https://news.sky.com/story/20-3c-in-february-hottest-winter-day-on-record-11647956 (https://news.sky.com/story/20-3c-in-february-hottest-winter-day-on-record-11647956)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 February 2019, 09:41:21 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0Rsu-sW0AEnD7m.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 February 2019, 11:42:12 pm
Apparently she won the game by deporting the black ball  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 February 2019, 11:44:36 pm
Quote
Oh the UK has just had it's warmest February day since records began.
Just seen the overnight forecast. Warmer in Shetland (+7) than here in Essex (-1). Bonkers.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 February 2019, 11:51:21 pm
Quote
Apparently she won the game by deporting the black ball  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

 :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 05:51:37 am

Quote
Oh the UK has just had it's warmest February day since records began.
Just seen the overnight forecast. Warmer in Shetland (+7) than here in Essex (-1). Bonkers.


I suppose that's Brexit's fault too? :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 February 2019, 09:35:01 am
No it's Africa's fault. That's where the hot gulf stream is blowing across. Most of Europe is freezing cold.


So at last, we're getting our hot wind on WTO terms. Brexit success  :)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 10:13:51 am

This is priceless...Out of desperation to stop more rebel MP's jumping ship, Corbyn's on the verge of announcing that Labour back a second referendum.


At a stroke he's going to alienate all of the northern Labour Leave voters in their at risk marginal seats and the ones they need to win just to shore his party up in order to get through the next fortnight. He'll never stand a chance of ever winning an election after that.


What a shambles. You couldn't make it up!.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 26 February 2019, 10:51:57 am
Which face of the many he has is Corbyn wearing for that announcement
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 11:50:23 am

Which face of the many he has is Corbyn wearing for that announcement


Dunno but apparently up to 50 of his other MP's might rebel against that!. They're from constituencys that overwhelmingly voted Leave and can see themselves getting the boot at the next election as a result.


This is brilliant :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 26 February 2019, 01:25:05 pm
It’s excellent. No longer do I have to put up with corbynista students telling me he sticks to his principles😊👍
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 26 February 2019, 01:33:14 pm
He only sticks to his principles when he was talking to terrorists and Marxists I have a very long memory Mr Corbyn you sir couldn't be trusted to run a p*ss up in a brewery
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 February 2019, 01:41:41 pm
This is priceless. May is offering to delay Brexit and rule out No Deal.
Totally against what she said before. You couldn't make it up.


It's all starting to look good  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 01:44:59 pm


It's all starting to look good  :)


Not for Corbyn it isn't  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 01:47:06 pm

You couldn't make it up.


I think you just have. She's offering A VOTE on it isn't she?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 01:54:47 pm
....and that's only if they reject her latest deal proposal
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 February 2019, 02:11:03 pm
One step at a time  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 February 2019, 02:14:55 pm
..... and anyway, Corbyn is only offering a second referendum if his proposals are rejected.
Honestly, you right wingers are so blinkered  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 02:17:22 pm

One step at a time  :)


Yes, one broken manifesto pledge at a time.


Still it'll finish off any scrap of a chance Corbyn ever had of getting his hands on the keys to number 10, so it's not all bad :) .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 05:15:42 pm
Couldn't someone have told Jess Phillips MP that The Oscar's was yesterday :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 05:17:21 pm
Is Evan Davies the presenter of Radio 4's PM programme or a Remain guest speaker? :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 February 2019, 06:25:56 pm
I can tell it's going well. The Leavers are complaining  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 08:29:17 pm
I can tell it's going well. The Leavers are complaining  :lol
Blimey, Leave must be romping home if that's the barometer of success. The Remoaners have done nothing but whinge and whine ever since the morning after referendum day :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 26 February 2019, 08:39:40 pm
Why then is it that we are dancing to the Junker shuffle (is it just me that thinks he shuffles like a dementia sufferer ).Why are we trying to get the EU to change bits so May can offer it up for a vote to MPs here.Why don't we create the changes our end first that will get the deal voted through by our MPs THEN take that to the EU and let the 27 vote on that. With the threat of no deal hanging over it if they vote no then they will have brought about the no deal themselves.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 February 2019, 09:21:48 pm
Quote
This is priceless...Out of desperation to stop more rebel MP's jumping ship, Corbyn's on the verge of announcing that Labour back a second referendum.
Well yes, in line with what was agreed at their party conference.  He's just a wee bit slow in getting there.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 February 2019, 09:27:27 pm
Quote
Why then is it that we are dancing to the Junker shuffle (is it just me that thinks he shuffles like a dementia sufferer ).Why are we trying to get the EU to change bits so May can offer it up for a vote to MPs here.Why don't we create the changes our end first that will get the deal voted through by our MPs THEN take that to the EU and let the 27 vote on that. With the threat of no deal hanging over it if they vote no then they will have brought about the no deal themselves.
Wow.  Twisted logic or not.   :lol

 And anyway, whatever happens if the UK leaves the EU on May’s disastrous deal or No Deal, as economy slides or nosedives, as the pound weakens, as more and more companies like Honda head for the exit, as unemployment grows and a million or more become dependent on foodbanks, you lot are going to try and blame the EU.


Everything in the BREXITEERS la la land is the fault of the EU
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 February 2019, 10:04:11 pm

Quote
This is priceless...Out of desperation to stop more rebel MP's jumping ship, Corbyn's on the verge of announcing that Labour back a second referendum.
Well yes, in line with what was agreed at their party conference.  He's just a wee bit slow in getting there.


And thank goodness he did get there. He might keep a few MP's on board for the time being, but he'll hack off millions of Labour Leave voters in the long run.


That should ensure the Marxist never gets in Number 10 Downing Street :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 February 2019, 10:05:37 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0P0wdAXgAAPdyS.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 February 2019, 07:40:52 am

One of Corbyn's closest allies, Chris Williamson MP, has been filmed telling Labour activists that the party has been too apologetic regarding the anti-Semitism issue.


When will they understand that this sort of thing just isn't acceptable?. They just don't get it do they :(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 27 February 2019, 08:20:10 am
Went up to Cambridge for a few days to see my son, the wife and me were waiting in town and got chatting to a young English guy around 35 years of age selling copies of the Big Issue.
What a cracking bloke he was telling us one joke after another, he asked if we had heard of the Brexit Christmas Dinner, no Brussels, no Turkey and no place at the table. :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 February 2019, 09:03:01 am


 And anyway, whatever happens if the UK leaves the EU on May’s disastrous deal or No Deal, as economy slides or nosedives, as the pound weakens, as more and more companies like Honda head for the exit, as unemployment grows and a million or more become dependent on foodbanks, you lot are going to try and blame the EU.


Everything in the BREXITEERS la la land is the fault of the EU


Employment is at a record high :rolleyes


Ahh don't tell me....Honda left because Brexit is GOING to happen, but employment is at a record high because Brexit HASN'T happened yet?.


Everything in the Remainers la la land is the fault of Brexit....unless it's good news :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 February 2019, 09:04:56 am

Went up to Cambridge for a few days to see my son, the wife and me were waiting in town and got chatting to a young English guy around 35 years of age selling copies of the Big Issue.
What a cracking bloke he was telling us one joke after another, he asked if we had heard of the Brexit Christmas Dinner, no Brussels, no Turkey and no place at the table. :rollin


Yep hilarious. I hope you bought a copy after all that free entertainment?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 27 February 2019, 10:57:38 am
Employment is at a record high

The government is quoting a figure for "employment" which includes anyone who does ONE HOUR or more of paid work in a fortnight. It also includes 844,000 people who are on zero hours contracts or doing gig economy jobs with no job security.

And the only reason wages are "rising at the fastest rate for 10 years" is that, for the previous 10 years, the government deliberately restricted wage growth.

So, please, look at the facts, not the spin.

:rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 February 2019, 11:25:31 am
''The only way you can ever accuse a Conservative of hypocrisy is if they walk past a homeless person without kicking them in the face.''
Jeremy Hardy RIP
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 February 2019, 11:41:14 am
Yes he certainly had a knack for tasteless quotes. I read some of those the other week. Particularly unpleasant stuff.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 February 2019, 11:43:35 am

Employment is at a record high

The government is quoting a figure for "employment" which includes anyone who does ONE HOUR or more of paid work in a fortnight. It also includes 844,000 people who are on zero hours contracts or doing gig economy jobs with no job security.

And the only reason wages are "rising at the fastest rate for 10 years" is that, for the previous 10 years, the government deliberately restricted wage growth.

So, please, look at the facts, not the spin.

 :rolleyes


Oh OK it's at a record low then and Brexit HASN'T even happened yet :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: tommyardin on 27 February 2019, 11:45:11 am

Went up to Cambridge for a few days to see my son, the wife and me were waiting in town and got chatting to a young English guy around 35 years of age selling copies of the Big Issue.
What a cracking bloke he was telling us one joke after another, he asked if we had heard of the Brexit Christmas Dinner, no Brussels, no Turkey and no place at the table. :rollin


Yep hilarious. I hope you bought a copy after all that free entertainment?


yep I did and i gave him a fiver, he told me they pay £1 each for them and sell them for the marked price of £2-50.
He said sometimes he only sells 10 or 11 a day, not a lot of money for possibly standing out in the pissing rain all day is it?  :'( 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 February 2019, 07:02:07 pm
Quote
Yes he certainly had a knack for tasteless quotes. I read some of those the other week. Particularly unpleasant stuff.
No, he was the best comedian on the radio  ;)


On more serious stuff, PPS has to resign after tabling an amendment to May's EU/UK citizens' rights proposals, and is backed by Home Secretary, who doesn't realise May has ruled it out.
What a shambles this government is. No wonder we are in this mess  :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 February 2019, 09:22:20 pm
...and Labour have suspended Chris Williamson MP from the party over his vile anti-Semitism.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 February 2019, 09:32:13 pm
Quote
''The only way you can ever accuse a Conservative of hypocrisy is if they walk past a homeless person without kicking them in the face.''
Jeremy Hardy RIP
Foccing brilliant! :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 February 2019, 09:43:12 pm
Quote
...and Labour have suspended Chris Williamson MP from the party over his vile anti-Semitism.
Bonkers.  And vile?  Can you produce this vile 'anti-semitism' YamFazFan?  Do you have evidence?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: john roche on 27 February 2019, 10:53:55 pm
It amazed me that so many on the right are critical of antisemitism in Labour when there is so many, including members of this forum spouting such ignorant and vile islamophobia.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 February 2019, 11:30:39 pm
 :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 February 2019, 11:41:50 pm
 Indeed, where is the outrage at those promoting SCYL? 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 28 February 2019, 07:10:26 am
It amazed me that so many on the right are critical of antisemitism in Labour when there is so many, including members of this forum spouting such ignorant and vile islamophobia.


Free speech is what they call it, and i believe if it's allowed then views needs to be heard from different sides to be fair to all parties.
Whether you agree or disagree to other peoples views is your choice entirely.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 February 2019, 07:13:40 am

Quote
...and Labour have suspended Chris Williamson MP from the party over his vile anti-Semitism.
Bonkers.  And vile?  Can you produce this vile 'anti-semitism' YamFazFan?  Do you have evidence?


I'd suggest that you ask the Labour Party for the evidence. They suspended him.


Racism is unacceptable WHICHEVER source it comes from. Just because it's coming from the left in this instance doesn't justify it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 February 2019, 10:49:50 am
Today's BBC - 'Net migration to the UK from countries outside the European Union has hit its highest level for 15 years, says the Office for National Statistics'
'Leave EU'  campaign changes its name to 'Leave World' ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 February 2019, 11:39:47 am
Free speech is what they call it, and i believe if it's allowed then views needs to be heard from different sides to be fair to all parties.
Whether you agree or disagree to other peoples views is your choice entirely.
I don't agree with that  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 28 February 2019, 04:55:47 pm
It amazed me that so many on the right are critical of antisemitism in Labour when there is so many, including members of this forum spouting such ignorant and vile islamophobia.

Yes, let's just label it Islamaphobia and hope no one dares talk about the nationwide rape and grooming of our children...


It’s official: people who talk about the problem of Pakistani men abusing white working-class girls have no place in polite society. Raise so much as a peep of concern about Muslim grooming gangs and you’ll be expelled from the realm of the decent. You’ll be shushed, exiled, encouraged to clean out your polluted mind.
[/size]That has been the experience of Sarah Champion, Labour MP for Rotherham, who quit as shadow equalities minister (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40952224) this week over her Sun article on the gang of largely Muslim men in Newcastle who last week were found guilty of 100 offences, including rape against women and girls. Published last Thursday, Champion’s article (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4218648/british-pakistani-men-raping-exploiting-white-girls/) said:[/font][/size][/size]‘Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls.’[/font][/size]But you’re not allowed to say that, even in the wake of convictions of Pakistani and other Muslim men for scores of sexual crimes. So she had to go.
[/size]The response to her article from Labourites was swift and unforgiving. Corbynistas branded her racist (http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/areeq-chowdhury/sarah-champion_b_17750700.html). Tweeters called on Corbyn to sack her (purge the misspeakers!). Labour MP Naz Shah (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/16/sarah-champion-complaint-sun-article-british-pakistani-men) branded her article ‘irresponsible’ and ‘dangerous’. Then Corbyn welcomed (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40952224) her stepping down on the basis that Labour will never ‘demonise any particular group’.[/font][/size]



[/size]Champion said that she was distancing (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/16/sarah-champion-complaint-sun-article-british-pakistani-men) herself from her article. She claimed the Sun over-edited it, but really this looks like a politician denouncing herself in public, not unlike those Soviet dissenters who would slam their old beliefs once they had been successfully corrected.[/font][/size]
[/size]The hounding of Champion is in keeping with the stricture against open discussion of Muslim grooming gangs, the institutionalisation of moral evasion on this issue. From local officials in Rotherham (https://www.wsj.com/articles/brendan-oneill-when-political-correctness-took-over-in-yorkshire-1409249308) who failed to act on the exploitation of girls by men of Muslim origin for nearly 20 years to certain media outlets’ caginess about using the M-word in relation to these crimes (they prefer ‘Asian’ (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4781426/Asian-grooming-gangs-treated-race-hate-crimes.html)), there’s a palpable reluctance to confront the particular problem of some Muslim men’s disdain for white working-class girls.[/font][/size]
[/size]The cowardly reluctance to talk frankly about these gangs is not only an affront to open debate, sheepishly discouraging difficult questions about multiculturalism, cultural separatism, and why it is that some Muslim men — note the word ‘some’ — seem to have a low view of working-class white girls. It is also demeaning both to working-class women and Muslims. It tells young, poor women in certain parts of the country that we don’t take their victimisation seriously. And it sends the message that Muslims are incapable of self-reflection and must be protected from robust discussion about some of the attitudes that exist (http://news.sky.com/story/sex-abuse-gangs-view-white-girls-as-worthless-and-trash-10982586) within their communities.[/font][/size]
[/size]The shutting down of debate about Muslim groomers is a particularly foul snub to the less well-off women of Rotherham, Oxford (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-31643791), Newcastle. They are reduced to a moral inconvenience, to pesky individuals whose suffering punctures the happy stories we tell ourselves about multiculturalism and raises questions we’d rather not ask about clashing communities in 21st-century Britain.[/font][/size]
[/size]Contrast the treatment of middle-class women who have experienced sexism with the treatment of these poorer women who have been abused and raped. When a female Labour MP is called names on Twitter or a feminist student radical overhears a sexist joke, whole new campaigns are built. War is declared on ‘lad culture’. Yvette Cooper will call on women to ‘Reclaim the Internet’. But when girls of few means and little influence are raped by Muslim men, we’d rather not know. It gets reported on, of course, but it’s soon forgotten. It’s just too complicated.
[/size]Those who suppress open discussion of Muslim grooming gangs think they’re being socially virtuous, helping to maintain peace between communities. But in truth they have made a repulsive if implicit moral decision: that protecting Islam from criticism is more important than defending the dignity of white working-class girls. They sacrifice their feminism at the altar of multiculturalism. Their concern for women and the poor evaporates in the face of Islam. No price, it seems, is too high when it comes to ringfencing Islam and aspects of Muslim culture from public questioning — even the price of letting down working-class women, or at least making them feel like second-class victims.
[/size]Then there’s the diminishing of Muslims themselves. The true prejudice lies not in those who want to have an open debate about Muslim grooming gangs, but in those who want to protect Muslims from this debate for fear that they will feel devalued or offended by it. There’s an ugly neo-colonialist bent to this idea that any criticism of Islam or its adherents is ‘Islamophobia’ and must be extinguished to preserve the sensitivities of this fragile community. It infantilises Muslims. I trust that Muslims can cope with questions about their faith and their community and will want to do something about grooming gangs; what a shame so many in the political set do not.
[/size]It isn’t people like Champion who are ‘irresponsible’ and ‘dangerous’ (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/naz-shah-sarah-champion-child-abuse-pakistani-labour-newcastle-rotherham-bradford-a7890216.html) — it is the reluctance to confront communal problems. Wishing such problems away simply allows them to fester, unresolved, undiscussed, liable to creep up on us again.[/font][/size]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 28 February 2019, 05:18:47 pm
It amazed me that so many on the right are critical of antisemitism in Labour when there is so many, including members of this forum spouting such ignorant and vile islamophobia.

Yes, let's just label it Islamaphobia and hope no one dares talk about the nationwide rape and grooming of our children...


It’s official: people who talk about the problem of Pakistani men abusing white working-class girls have no place in polite society. Raise so much as a peep of concern about Muslim grooming gangs and you’ll be expelled from the realm of the decent. You’ll be shushed, exiled, encouraged to clean out your polluted mind.
[/size]That has been the experience of Sarah Champion, Labour MP for Rotherham, who quit as shadow equalities minister ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40952224[/url]) this week over her Sun article on the gang of largely Muslim men in Newcastle who last week were found guilty of 100 offences, including rape against women and girls. Published last Thursday, Champion’s article ([url]https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4218648/british-pakistani-men-raping-exploiting-white-girls/[/url]) said:[/font][/size][/size]‘Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls.’[/font][/size]But you’re not allowed to say that, even in the wake of convictions of Pakistani and other Muslim men for scores of sexual crimes. So she had to go.
[/size]The response to her article from Labourites was swift and unforgiving. Corbynistas branded her racist ([url]http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/areeq-chowdhury/sarah-champion_b_17750700.html[/url]). Tweeters called on Corbyn to sack her (purge the misspeakers!). Labour MP Naz Shah ([url]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/16/sarah-champion-complaint-sun-article-british-pakistani-men[/url]) branded her article ‘irresponsible’ and ‘dangerous’. Then Corbyn welcomed ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40952224[/url]) her stepping down on the basis that Labour will never ‘demonise any particular group’.[/font][/size]



[/size]Champion said that she was distancing ([url]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/16/sarah-champion-complaint-sun-article-british-pakistani-men[/url]) herself from her article. She claimed the Sun over-edited it, but really this looks like a politician denouncing herself in public, not unlike those Soviet dissenters who would slam their old beliefs once they had been successfully corrected.[/font][/size]
[/size]The hounding of Champion is in keeping with the stricture against open discussion of Muslim grooming gangs, the institutionalisation of moral evasion on this issue. From local officials in Rotherham ([url]https://www.wsj.com/articles/brendan-oneill-when-political-correctness-took-over-in-yorkshire-1409249308[/url]) who failed to act on the exploitation of girls by men of Muslim origin for nearly 20 years to certain media outlets’ caginess about using the M-word in relation to these crimes (they prefer ‘Asian’ ([url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4781426/Asian-grooming-gangs-treated-race-hate-crimes.html[/url])), there’s a palpable reluctance to confront the particular problem of some Muslim men’s disdain for white working-class girls.[/font][/size]
[/size]The cowardly reluctance to talk frankly about these gangs is not only an affront to open debate, sheepishly discouraging difficult questions about multiculturalism, cultural separatism, and why it is that some Muslim men — note the word ‘some’ — seem to have a low view of working-class white girls. It is also demeaning both to working-class women and Muslims. It tells young, poor women in certain parts of the country that we don’t take their victimisation seriously. And it sends the message that Muslims are incapable of self-reflection and must be protected from robust discussion about some of the attitudes that exist ([url]http://news.sky.com/story/sex-abuse-gangs-view-white-girls-as-worthless-and-trash-10982586[/url]) within their communities.[/font][/size]
[/size]The shutting down of debate about Muslim groomers is a particularly foul snub to the less well-off women of Rotherham, Oxford ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-31643791[/url]), Newcastle. They are reduced to a moral inconvenience, to pesky individuals whose suffering punctures the happy stories we tell ourselves about multiculturalism and raises questions we’d rather not ask about clashing communities in 21st-century Britain.[/font][/size]
[/size]Contrast the treatment of middle-class women who have experienced sexism with the treatment of these poorer women who have been abused and raped. When a female Labour MP is called names on Twitter or a feminist student radical overhears a sexist joke, whole new campaigns are built. War is declared on ‘lad culture’. Yvette Cooper will call on women to ‘Reclaim the Internet’. But when girls of few means and little influence are raped by Muslim men, we’d rather not know. It gets reported on, of course, but it’s soon forgotten. It’s just too complicated.
[/size]Those who suppress open discussion of Muslim grooming gangs think they’re being socially virtuous, helping to maintain peace between communities. But in truth they have made a repulsive if implicit moral decision: that protecting Islam from criticism is more important than defending the dignity of white working-class girls. They sacrifice their feminism at the altar of multiculturalism. Their concern for women and the poor evaporates in the face of Islam. No price, it seems, is too high when it comes to ringfencing Islam and aspects of Muslim culture from public questioning — even the price of letting down working-class women, or at least making them feel like second-class victims.
[/size]Then there’s the diminishing of Muslims themselves. The true prejudice lies not in those who want to have an open debate about Muslim grooming gangs, but in those who want to protect Muslims from this debate for fear that they will feel devalued or offended by it. There’s an ugly neo-colonialist bent to this idea that any criticism of Islam or its adherents is ‘Islamophobia’ and must be extinguished to preserve the sensitivities of this fragile community. It infantilises Muslims. I trust that Muslims can cope with questions about their faith and their community and will want to do something about grooming gangs; what a shame so many in the political set do not.
[/size]It isn’t people like Champion who are ‘irresponsible’ and ‘dangerous’ ([url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/naz-shah-sarah-champion-child-abuse-pakistani-labour-newcastle-rotherham-bradford-a7890216.html[/url]) — it is the reluctance to confront communal problems. Wishing such problems away simply allows them to fester, unresolved, undiscussed, liable to creep up on us again.[/font][/size]


Totally agree Dazza  :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 28 February 2019, 05:24:01 pm
Islamophobia -  the irrational fear of your country being taken over by homophobic, mysoginist, child raping religious zealots who think that sentencing someone to death for" blasphemy "is ok.



Maybe ask Asia Bibi  ( Aasiya Noreen )if she is feeling a little bit islamophobic .


Or Islamophobia - the insult left wing liberal whingers use when they can't use the word "racist".


Or Islamophobia  - the term first coined by extremist muslims to describe muslim women who resisted wearing wearing full face covering after the revolution in Iran.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 28 February 2019, 05:55:05 pm
Notice that not one of the knob cheeses on here has made a comment about the BBC working with a far left organisation threatening and intimidating reluctant whistle blowers into making false allegations, sexual assault, clipping and doctoring of text to give a false story, blatantly making up a sexual assault allegation, squandering licence fee money on extravagant lunches, offering large sums of money to dish the dirt (true or false, they don't care)......the list goes on and on and the man who exposes them gets removed from public platforms within 24hours with a bullshit excuse not one of them can prove with evidence, despite evidence being the all important factor when the shoe is on the other foot.


Silencing someone, does not make them wrong and all you lefty appeasers are the reason this vile disease is allowed to spread.


Call me what you like, I don't give a fuck.


My daughter is safe because I'm aware and have made her aware.
Let's just pray your children or grandchildren never become victims like the 2600 parents in Rotherham alone so far have.
How can you even come to terms with a life changing crime and unimaginable event to have to deal with that these parents have.
It's time we spoke about it without fear of being labelled. If we offend you when we speak out, that's your shortcomings and moral code that's wrong, not ours.











Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 February 2019, 06:50:11 pm
Quote
Free speech is what they call it, and i believe if it's allowed then views needs to be heard from different sides to be fair to all parties.
Whether you agree or disagree to other peoples views is your choice entirely.
With freedom of speech comes responsibility.  Freedom of speech is not carte blanche to say whatever you wish, free of facts or evidence, free of responsibility of consequence.


Dazza’s violent, fraudulent, racist fascist hero, whom cares not for facts, evidence or consequence, will one way or another slowly learn, that just as his violent actions have consequences, his abuses of freedom of speech equally will have consequences.


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 February 2019, 06:53:44 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA on 27 February 2019, 09:43:12 PM
 
    Quote
 
        ...and Labour have suspended Chris Williamson MP from the party over his vile anti-Semitism.
 
    Bonkers.  And vile?  Can you produce this vile 'anti-semitism' YamFazFan?  Do you have evidence?
 
 
 
I'd suggest that you ask the Labour Party for the evidence. They suspended him.
 
 
Racism is unacceptable WHICHEVER source it comes from. Just because it's coming from the left in this instance doesn't justify it.

So having called a man a vile anti-Semite, you are unable to tell us what it is he has said or done that warrants such a serious accusation.
You don’t know, do you YamFazFan.   
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 28 February 2019, 07:03:45 pm
The Minister who resigned today pretty much summed up my feelings on the matter, that there is a hard core of MPs in parliament who have never accepted the result of the referendum and the view of the people and, their constant opposition has weakened our position in negotiations with their excellencies in the EU
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 February 2019, 08:26:18 pm
Dazza, what about the women and underage children groomed and raped by members of the EDL and BNP? Is it OK to campaign against them? If so why hasn't SYL done that?
I know the answer. Because he doesn't use freedom of speech. He only campaigns against Muslims. Because he is a racist.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 28 February 2019, 08:54:44 pm

Anybody know the numbers of the bnp/edl child rapists vs the number of the Pakistani ones?
Im guessing there will be "quite" a difference...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 28 February 2019, 08:55:41 pm
The Minister who resigned today pretty much summed up my feelings on the matter, that there is a hard core of MPs in parliament who have never accepted the result of the referendum and the view of the people and, their constant opposition has weakened our position in negotiations with their excellencies in the EU

Undoubtably mate.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 28 February 2019, 09:17:26 pm
Dazza, what about the women and underage children groomed and raped by members of the EDL and BNP? Is it OK to campaign against them? If so why hasn't SYL done that?
I know the answer. Because he doesn't use freedom of speech. He only campaigns against Muslims. Because he is a racist.
Why do you keep on trying to use this to deflect attention away from the  Islamic Pakistani rape gangs ?
First of all, he's never been a member of the BNP and he turned his back on the EDL after it was infiltrated by racists and neo Nazis .
If you weren't so blinded by the MSM hype you'd know this.


Why aren't you outraged by the findings of the Quilliam report ?
Why haven't you expressed you outrage at the revelation of the corrupt and false reporting by the BBC ?


And why can't you get it into your head that the moment you say Muslims and racist in the same sentence, you've actually just demonstrated that you haven't got a clue what racism actually means..... Muslims are not a race.
More proof that you are one of the SHEEPLE following all the others around bleeting the favourite words of the left........BORE off., it's getting tiresome.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 February 2019, 09:25:54 pm

Quote
Quote from: VNA on 27 February 2019, 09:43:12 PM
 
    Quote
 
        ...and Labour have suspended Chris Williamson MP from the party over his vile anti-Semitism.
 
    Bonkers.  And vile?  Can you produce this vile 'anti-semitism' YamFazFan?  Do you have evidence?
 
 
 
I'd suggest that you ask the Labour Party for the evidence. They suspended him.
 
 
Racism is unacceptable WHICHEVER source it comes from. Just because it's coming from the left in this instance doesn't justify it.

So having called a man a vile anti-Semite, you are unable to tell us what it is he has said or done that warrants such a serious accusation.
You don’t know, do you YamFazFan.


Perhaps you could tell us why he's been suspended by his own party and roundly condemned?.


Or maybe tell us why you feel it's unjustified?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 February 2019, 09:50:09 pm
YamFazFan, I'll quote you again;
Quote
...and Labour have suspended Chris Williamson MP from the party over his vile anti-Semitism.
These are your words.  Can you back them up with facts?  Why is it that you have deemed, that you choose, to call Chris Williamson a vile anti-semite?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 28 February 2019, 09:53:44 pm
not just yamfazfan...lots of people have called him that havnt they? mostly from his own party.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 February 2019, 09:54:16 pm
Dazza,
This is a thread on BREXIT.  What the fuck has your criminal, violent, fradulant, facist, islamaphoic, racist, fuck whit lying fud bastard of a hero got to do with BREXIT?   FFS! :'(

Please stop hijacking Steve 10562's BREXIT thread.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 February 2019, 10:00:14 pm
YamFazFan, I'll quote you again;
Quote
...and Labour have suspended Chris Williamson MP from the party over his vile anti-Semitism.
These are your words.  Can you back them up with facts?  Why is it that you have deemed, that you choose, to call Chris Williamson a vile anti-semite?
Once again, you need to ask the Labour Party why they've condemned his comments and suspended him from the party.

I DON'T represent the Labour Party :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 February 2019, 10:10:33 pm
Quote
I DON'T represent the Labour Party ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url])

So what you are saying is that you are calling a man a vile anti-semite without reason. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 28 February 2019, 10:13:20 pm
Dazza,
This is a thread on BREXIT.  What the fuck has your criminal, violent, fradulant, facist, islamaphoic, racist, fuck whit lying fud bastard of a hero got to do with BREXIT?   FFS! :'(

Please stop hijacking Steve 10562's BREXIT thread.
No....fuck off.... If it winds you up then I'm sure Steve won't mind :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 February 2019, 10:19:00 pm
Quote
I DON'T represent the Labour Party ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url])

So what you are saying is that you are calling a man a vile anti-semite without reason.


I'm sure the Labour Party must have had good reason for taking this action. Ask them.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 February 2019, 10:34:56 pm
Quote
I'm sure the Labour Party must have had good reason for taking this action. Ask them.
So you don't know.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 28 February 2019, 10:35:06 pm
Quote
Free speech is what they call it, and i believe if it's allowed then views needs to be heard from different sides to be fair to all parties.
Whether you agree or disagree to other peoples views is your choice entirely.
With freedom of speech comes responsibility.  Freedom of speech is not carte blanche to say whatever you wish, free of facts or evidence, free of responsibility of consequence.


Dazza’s violent, fraudulent, racist fascist hero, whom cares not for facts, evidence or consequence, will one way or another slowly learn, that just as his violent actions have consequences, his abuses of freedom of speech equally will have consequences.


It's never stopped you saying what you wish?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 February 2019, 11:14:12 pm
Dazza, what about the women and underage children groomed and raped by members of the EDL and BNP? Is it OK to campaign against them? If so why hasn't SYL done that?
I know the answer. Because he doesn't use freedom of speech. He only campaigns against Muslims. Because he is a racist.
There is no "campaign" against edl or bnp members pedo crimes because one is not needed because as far is I can see they are reported by the msm and completely in the public domain. 

 News flash - in a majority white population the majority of pedo offenders are white FACT. Covered up and not fully reported for fear of upsetting community cohesion the majority of grooming gang related offenders are disproportionately overrepresented by asians of mainly muslim origins also a FACT. Those that choose to ignore/deflect/shout racist in an attempt to shut down debate are part of the problem and part of the reason the muslim pedo gangs have got away with it for so long. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 February 2019, 11:29:49 pm
Dazza,This is a thread on BREXIT.  What the fuck has your criminal, violent, fradulant, facist, islamaphoic, racist, fuck whit lying fud bastard of a hero got to do with BREXIT?   FFS! :'(
Please stop hijacking Steve 10562's BREXIT thread.
VNA it is YOU again that brought scyl into the brexit thread- here------


Indeed, where is the outrage at those promoting SCYL? 
 
No one was talking about him for a while until YOU mentioned him again. You sound like an undercover fan attempting to promote him. After all you do agree with him 100% about the saudi's
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 February 2019, 11:35:08 pm
9 members of a Bradford grooming gand were sentenced to up to 20 years yesterday FACT
They were convicted because they were criminals. It was not 'covered up'
SYL interferes with the criminal process and jeopardises prosecution, and is convicted of contempt of court FACT


EDL and other followers of SYL are convicted of child abuse and rape FACT.'Nothing to do with me mate' doesn't wash. Plenty of white British grooming gangs and people traffickers about.


People on here quoting 'facts' without any proof or references whatsoever.


I know exactly what racism is Dazza. Don't need any lessons  :lol  Let's just call it out when we see it and not deny it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 February 2019, 11:49:25 pm
9 members of a Bradford grooming gand were sentenced to up to 20 years yesterday FACT
They were convicted because they were criminals. It was not 'covered up'
Perhaps I should of said "in the past" it was covered up. But I just tried to search for it on the BBC news site and could not find it until I tried harder and found it not on the main page and not in the regional page but in the local bradford page and nestled down underneath a section about "Bats, Balls and Bradford girls cricket team"
Now then -- I listen to and watch a lot of news but why is it that I have only just heard about this through you.

Quote
People on here quoting 'facts' without any proof or references whatsoever.
I do not randomly pluck stuff out of thin air - go on google it yourself 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 February 2019, 11:53:52 pm
Quote
It's never stopped you saying what you wish?
I stand by what I say.  I back up what I say.  With free speech comes responsibility. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 01 March 2019, 12:25:03 am
Show us your proof that TR is a racist and a fascist then.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 01 March 2019, 06:50:46 am
Just for the record guys I hate all racist, and from my experience they come from all RACES, COLOURS, AND RELIGIONS, in equal numbers all as nasty and odious as one an other.  As for the grooming gangs from Bradford etc lets call them what they really are that's paedophiles which has nothing to do with there religion they are they same as all other paedophiles of what ever race or religion nasty, manipulative, evil, life changing for the victims and there families pieces of work, that I have had the misfortune to have had to deal with due to my job over the last 30 odd years.       
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 March 2019, 08:34:56 am

Quote
I'm sure the Labour Party must have had good reason for taking this action. Ask them.
So you don't know.


I know that he's been suspended by the Labour Party over what he said the other day with regard to anti-Semitism. They don't take decisions like that lightly. He's offended a lot of people.


If you've got an issue with that I suggest you get in touch with the party and make your feelings known.


I abhor anti-Semitism, racism and discrimination in all its forms.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 March 2019, 10:26:33 am
Quote
Perhaps I should of said "in the past" it was covered up. But I just tried to search for it on the BBC news site and could not find it until I tried harder and found it not on the main page and not in the regional
It was on the front page the day they were convicted, and again the following day when they were sentenced. It's now slipped down the rating because it's now 'old news'
Quote
from my experience they come from all RACES, COLOURS, AND RELIGIONS, in equal numbers all as nasty and odious as one an other.  As for the grooming gangs from Bradford etc lets call them what they really are that's paedophiles which has nothing to do with there religion they are they same as all other paedophiles of what ever race or religion nasty, manipulative, evil, life changing for the victims and there families pieces of work, that I have had the misfortune to have to deal with due to my job over the last 30 odd years.
Well said Steve  :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 March 2019, 11:13:06 am
Anyway, back to Brexit :
Breaking news - The government will pay £33m to Eurotunnel in an agreement to settle a lawsuit over extra ferry services in the event of a no-dealBrexit.
More piss poor government. They do like throwing our money away, don't they  :\
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 01 March 2019, 11:27:42 am
Quote

It was on the front page the day they were convicted, and again the following day when they were sentenced. It's now slipped down the rating because it's now 'old news'

Ah I see it was my fault that I missed it - I must of blinked.
 Even when I have seen it on the BBC news when there have been 20 of them convicted the feature is about 30 seconds long and they can not wait to move on, its like I can almost feel the BBC squirming.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 March 2019, 11:46:30 am
Quote
Ah I see it was my fault that I missed it - I must of blinked.
Yep, pay more attention in future  :lol
Of course it's all a big conspiracy by the BBC, the government, the press etc. So as not to upset those Muslimics :rolleyes

Anyway, back to Brexit. I see a second ex Foreign Secretary is going to vote against the government (I can give you the link Fazersharp if you've missed it  ;) ).  Anybody got any idea what's going to happen next?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 01 March 2019, 01:43:20 pm
Quote
Ah I see it was my fault that I missed it - I must of blinked.
Yep, pay more attention in future  :lol
Of course it's all a big conspiracy by the BBC, the government, the press etc. So as not to upset those Muslimics :rolleyes
Yes I think it is a conspiracy but not what you are thinking its nothing about not "upsetting the muslimics" (this statement in itself shows just show how blind and blinkered you are ) But via use of D-notices and other means the gov are worried that if too much info was to come out or too much was made of the scale of it in the msm then they fear a threat to community cohesion. Same reason you don't hear about the French yellow vests that have been going on for 15 weeks or if you do it is played down.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 March 2019, 02:14:14 pm
Quote
"upsetting the muslimics" (this statement in itself shows just show how blind and blinkered you are )

No, it's called taking the piss.
As for the yellow vests, well it was all over the news at the beginning, and then we got bored with it. Hang on a minute, the French Gilet Jaunes? Haven't they been found to be anti semitic.  Bloody racists! :lol


Anyway, back to talking about Brexit. It's far less incendiary  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 01 March 2019, 05:03:06 pm
Quote
Free speech is what they call it, and i believe if it's allowed then views needs to be heard from different sides to be fair to all parties.
Whether you agree or disagree to other peoples views is your choice entirely.
With freedom of speech comes responsibility.  Freedom of speech is not carte blanche to say whatever you wish, free of facts or evidence, free of responsibility of consequence.


Dazza’s violent, fraudulent, racist fascist hero, whom cares not for facts, evidence or consequence, will one way or another slowly learn, that just as his violent actions have consequences, his abuses of freedom of speech equally will have consequences.


It's never stopped you saying what you wish?


Thats because free speech is only for certain people, nothing to do with responsibilty but everything to do trying to keep an opposing view silent.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 March 2019, 05:18:50 pm
 
Quote
I abhor anti-Semitism, racism and discrimination in all its forms.

If you abhor anti-Semitism, racism and discrimination in all its forms, then perhaps you might think twice about calling a man a vile anti-Semite without reason.  If you want to call somebody an anti-Semite or whatever, at least be clear as to why you are doing so.  Don’t just repeat what others have said without understanding why and being in full agreement.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 March 2019, 05:22:45 pm
Quote
Yes I think it is a conspiracy but not what you are thinking its nothing about not "upsetting the muslimics" (this statement in itself shows just show how blind and blinkered you are ) But via use of D-notices and other means the gov are worried that if too much info was to come out or too much was made of the scale of it in the msm then they fear a threat to community cohesion.
No it's been all over the msm for the last few years.  Benn reported and debated to death.  You just ain't being paying attention Fazersharp.
And yes there was much msm attention given to SVYL attempt to get one of the cases thrown out.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 March 2019, 05:23:33 pm
Quote
Anyway, back to talking about Brexit. It's far less incendiary  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

Yes indeed can we get back to BREXIT  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 March 2019, 06:00:51 pm
It's being reported that Jaguar Land Rover is about to anounce major investment in it's UK advanced manufacturing worth hundreds of millions of pounds....

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-autos-jlr/jaguar-land-rover-to-announce-major-uk-investment-bbc-idUKKCN1QI517
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 March 2019, 06:24:17 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0hr4H5X4AAJcdD.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 March 2019, 10:59:49 pm
Quote
It's being reported that Jaguar Land Rover is about to anounce major investment in it's UK advanced manufacturing worth hundreds of millions of pounds
Yes heard this. Great news  :thumbup
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 03 March 2019, 10:34:56 am
WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE[/size] SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anynore.
[/font]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 03 March 2019, 10:51:07 am
Would someone like to explain why the Remainers and the Brexiteers have tried to keep the Lisbon Treaty very quiet, this seems to me to be a stitch up by members of parliament on both sides of the argument. Napoleon and Hitler's dreams have been fulfilled by the EU  in the 21st century without a shot being fired in the name of freedom from a dictatorship.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 March 2019, 10:54:57 am

 :eek :eek :eek


So THAT'S why The EU suggested an Article 50 extension up until 2021?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 March 2019, 01:14:44 pm
Where does that Lisbon Treaty copy and paste come from? Looks like an arch Brexiteer's interpretation, rather than fact.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 March 2019, 01:20:09 pm
Quote
WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THE LISBON TREATY, THE TREATY THAT COMES INTO FORCE 2020, ITS WORSE THAN THE SO CALLED DEAL, IF 99% OF THE BRITISH THINK TERESA MAYS DEAL IS BAD, JUST LOOK AT THE LISBON TREATY. PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW, LEAVERS AND REMAIN
..“What will actually happen if we stay in the EU” is a question no remainer will ever answer but here it is warts and all.
Check it out if you wish ——>>
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
Forget Deals no deals its time for remainers and brexiteers to unite and see whats coming before its to late. This is the whole reason they are dragging brexit out. So we can get to 2020 then we have no choices anynore.
Looks like more made up facebook pish.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 03 March 2019, 03:06:38 pm
Who knows but it's food for thought from both side if it's anything like the truth
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 March 2019, 03:10:00 pm
Steve, it's literally made up bollocks. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 March 2019, 03:31:21 pm
Who knows but it's food for thought from both side if it's anything like the truth
It's fiction.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 March 2019, 03:32:23 pm
Thank foc fae that :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 03 March 2019, 04:12:34 pm
About like the rest of the b*ll*cks spoken from both sides then. Non of the so called experts/MPs know what the foc is going to happen one way or the other, but I do know it wont be them is badly affected  It will be the ordinary hard working people of no matter which way you voted  that will bear the brunt of the fall out.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 03 March 2019, 08:52:12 pm
what ever may happen we're gonna be half in and out the way things are going.
as for the lisbon treaty nothing is mention the above.just google it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 03 March 2019, 09:06:43 pm

what ever may happen we're gonna be half in and out the way things are going.
as for the lisbon treaty nothing is mention the above.just google it.


It's a wind up!. Someone's fabricated that nonsense to mess people about :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 March 2019, 09:39:55 pm
Quote
About like the rest of the b*ll*cks spoken from both sides then. Non of the so called experts/MPs know what the foc is going to happen one way or the other, but I do know it wont be them is badly affected
We do know to a degree.  Economically the vast majority of economists are in agreement, whatever we do in terms of leaving the EU will have an economic impact on the UK, that is a negative impact. 



There is a small minority of economists we believe that the harder the BREXIT the better for the UK economy.  They argue, for example, a NO DEAL BREXIT will give the city of London – financial services – a substantial boost.  However most of them agree that it will have a strong negative impact on manufacturing in the UK, and overall a widening of inequality.  The UK will become, for ordinary people, a low wage hire and fire economy.


As I’ve said all along this is about the Tory party, and a battle between the modern pro-business faction verses the aristocracy and super rich side of the party – the ERG.


I think the most likely outcome, right now, is a very slightly amended May deal.  Which is really just kicking the can down the road.   So far parliament has failed to decisively rule out no deal, a Norway deal (the best BREXIT option) seems to be ruled out as is a second referendum.   I can't see a majority forming for any of these.


 
So, my money is on May’s deal.  But my heart is in, and this is probably the second most likely outcome (I think) if nothing can get a majority, then May may be forced to cancel article 50.  The problem with that is the Tory party may go into meltdown, it could lead to a general election, which will, possibly be the most chaotic general election in modern UK history.


So even if article 50 is cancelled, which I would like to see, well the reality is BREXIT probably is still not going to go away.


But yeah I totally agree with you Steve, in that this will have an impact on us ordinary punters, whereas people like Jacob Rees Mogg, well with 100 million quid worth of assets to his name…….
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 March 2019, 09:43:03 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0mBVhaX0AAxPkM.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 March 2019, 10:38:57 pm
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 March 2019, 11:00:41 pm
Quote
I think the most likely outcome, right now, is a very slightly amended May deal. 
Sadly, I think you are right but the numbers in Parliament will be very close. The deal that neither side wants but gets May off the hook and saves the Tory party splitting. Disgraceful to see some Labour MPs considering voting for the deal by being bribed by May's money for poor areas. The PM who promised 2 years ago to help 'just about managing' families, and delivered nothing.
Let's not also forget that if her deal does pass and we leave on the 29th, that is the start of 2+ years of negotiations to agree permanent trade and other deals with the EU where we are likely to end up being rule takers from the EU, without a vote. We could still be heading for an EFTA /Single Market /Freedom of movement type deal.


Nothing is better than the deal we already have.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 March 2019, 11:12:37 pm
Yup we could end up with a deal that not long ago was the biggest ever defeat in pariamentary history.
And yeah, two years plus negotiations.  And going by how long it's taken us to try and get a withdrawl agreement - the easy bit - well 2 years ++++++++ is more like it.
Then there is whether the UK can actually hold together.  This coud lead to Scotland and Northen Ireland leaving the UK.  The end of the UK.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 04 March 2019, 11:31:06 am
A little about "Taking Back Control" and all those laws that the EU "forced" on to us...

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/rationalist-destroys-leavers-with-list-of-all-eu-laws-that-have-been-forced-on-us-against-our-will/22/01/ (https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/rationalist-destroys-leavers-with-list-of-all-eu-laws-that-have-been-forced-on-us-against-our-will/22/01/)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Val on 04 March 2019, 03:26:11 pm
Brexit: The eyes have it.
 
 https://twitter.com/wolfi665/status/1102309572277166081 (https://twitter.com/wolfi665/status/1102309572277166081)

I am literally rolling on the floor laughing ere  :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 March 2019, 08:46:54 am

Blimey you're easily amused :rolleyes



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 March 2019, 03:06:16 pm
Was pretty funny.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 March 2019, 03:07:14 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0z-w1PX0AARo63.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 March 2019, 05:13:27 pm
Was pretty funny.
I only didn't laugh out loud for fear that if I did my head would have fallen off :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 March 2019, 05:30:15 pm
So, Warsi says the Tory party is riddled with Islamaphobia. Does that make it a score draw YamFazFan?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 05 March 2019, 08:20:56 pm
So, Warsi says the Tory party is riddled with Islamaphobia. Does that make it a score draw YamFazFan?


Hmmmm. Doesnt seem to have hindered her too much does it. Baroness Warsi PC FRTPI, Lawyer, politician, Member of the House of Lords, former Co-Chair of the Conservative Party, and author
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 March 2019, 08:58:12 pm
Quote
Hmmmm. Doesnt seem to have hindered her too much does it. Baroness Warsi PC FRTPI, Lawyer, politician, Member of the House of Lords, former Co-Chair of the Conservative Party, and author
What's that got to do with anything?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 March 2019, 10:53:54 pm
Quite
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 March 2019, 11:09:48 pm

So, Warsi says the Tory party is riddled with Islamaphobia. Does that make it a score draw YamFazFan?


As I said previously, I abhor racism and discrimination in all its forms.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 March 2019, 07:24:46 pm
Quote
As I said previously, I abhor racism and discrimination in all its forms.
Here's some mare fae ye;
 Tories suspend 14 members over alleged Islamophobia- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/05/tories-suspend-14-members-over-alleged-islamophobia (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/05/tories-suspend-14-members-over-alleged-islamophobia)


 
Quote
The messages included one from an individual who wrote that they would like to “turf all Muslims out of public office”. Another said they wanted to “get rid of all mosques”. Many comments were found on a Facebook group supporting Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Quote
Earlier on Tuesday, it emerged one of the party’s council candidates had previously been suspended for comparing Islam to alcoholism in a tweet in 2015. In the same year, he wrote: “Turkey buys oil from Isis. Muslims sticking together.”
 
Peter Lamb, a council candidate in Harlow, apologised earlier this month, saying: “The tweet was aimed at the extremists that have hijacked Islam and are cowardly hiding behind the religion” and that it was not meant to apply to “those who follow the religion peacefully and are contributing to the diversity of the UK”.
 
On Tuesday, he tweeted: “I have reflected on my comments and decided that I should step down as a local election candidate and resign [from] the Conservative party with immediate effect.”
 
A Conservative spokesperson told the website Politics Home that, at the time of the initial tweets, Lamb had been suspended from the party before later being readmitted by his local association. The Harlow Conservative Association chairman, Clive Souter, described the punishment as a “slap on the wrist”.
Looks like the Tory party is riddled with racism, bigotry and Islamophobia.  And there's real evidence out there that suggests this is indeed the case.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 March 2019, 07:29:17 pm
Quote
It's being reported that Jaguar Land Rover is about to anounce major investment in it's UK advanced manufacturing worth hundreds of millions of pounds....

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-autos-jlr/jaguar-land-rover-to-announce-major-uk-investment-bbc-idUKKCN1QI517 (https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-autos-jlr/jaguar-land-rover-to-announce-major-uk-investment-bbc-idUKKCN1QI517)
But can it make up for Honda leaving and possibly followed by BMW and Toyota in the event of a NO DEAL BREXIT?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/oct/02/toyota-hard-brexit-uk-plant-bmw-mini-jaguar-land-rover (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/oct/02/toyota-hard-brexit-uk-plant-bmw-mini-jaguar-land-rover)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 March 2019, 08:23:04 pm
Liked this one  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 March 2019, 08:39:09 pm
Ouch
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 07 March 2019, 08:29:01 am
Quote
As I said previously, I abhor racism and discrimination in all its forms.
Here's some mare fae ye;
 Tories suspend 14 members over alleged Islamophobia- https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/05/tories-suspend-14-members-over-alleged-islamophobia (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/05/tories-suspend-14-members-over-alleged-islamophobia)


 
Quote
The messages included one from an individual who wrote that they would like to “turf all Muslims out of public office”. Another said they wanted to “get rid of all mosques”. Many comments were found on a Facebook group supporting Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Quote
Earlier on Tuesday, it emerged one of the party’s council candidates had previously been suspended for comparing Islam to alcoholism in a tweet in 2015. In the same year, he wrote: “Turkey buys oil from Isis. Muslims sticking together.”
 
Peter Lamb, a council candidate in Harlow, apologised earlier this month, saying: “The tweet was aimed at the extremists that have hijacked Islam and are cowardly hiding behind the religion” and that it was not meant to apply to “those who follow the religion peacefully and are contributing to the diversity of the UK”.
 
On Tuesday, he tweeted: “I have reflected on my comments and decided that I should step down as a local election candidate and resign [from] the Conservative party with immediate effect.”
 
A Conservative spokesperson told the website Politics Home that, at the time of the initial tweets, Lamb had been suspended from the party before later being readmitted by his local association. The Harlow Conservative Association chairman, Clive Souter, described the punishment as a “slap on the wrist”.
Looks like the Tory party is riddled with racism, bigotry and Islamophobia.  And there's real evidence out there that suggests this is indeed the case.


You don't half get your knickers in a twist about Islamophobia for an atheist ! 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 07 March 2019, 12:43:08 pm
Looks like the Labour party have a little problem of their own.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-47482048
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 07 March 2019, 05:16:50 pm
[/size]Here we go ........ it all begins to make sense now ..... but explains a lot about the people listed below.
Dominic Grieve:
owns building land in France and receives donations from German businesses.
Anna Soubry:
owns property in Portugal and gets donations from the Ulster Unionist Party (a Remain group).
Chuka Umunna:
gets hospitality and payments (along with Grieve) from the Franco(French)-British Colloque and he also took a £50,000 donation from Farr Vinters Ltd, whose main business is, in their own words, "the purchase and sale of top Bordeaux wines" as well as "an in depth range of wines from other French regions including Burgundy, the Rhône and Loire valleys, Champagne and Alsace."
Joanna Cherry:
the SNP's gob in Westminster, is yet another beneficiary of the Franco-British Colloque and also has received donations and hospitality from the Public Diplomacy Council of Catalonia (you know, that region of Spain that voted for independence which was later criminalized).
Ian Blackford:
another SNP hypocrite, has shareholdings in Commsworld - a telecoms company that relies on sub-sea links to mainland Europe.
Vince Cable:
receives hospitality from IBEC, which is an organisation representing business interests in the Republic of Ireland.
These are but a few traitors with conflicting interests.
(Source:) Register of Members' Financial Interests (as of 03/12/2018) These traitors are only interested in their own selfish affairs, not democracy or the UK as they profess publicly.
Vocal Leave supporters like Rees-Mogg, Boris, Raab, Davies and Barclay don't have anything invested in the EU (except for one fund in Ireland that exists only to facilitate business with Northern Ireland). Farage has a German wife and still thinks leaving is right! Funny that... The truth is plain to see - you need only open your eyes
Bercow has received more than £70,000 worth of freebies and earns £153,145 a year and has a grace-and-favour home in Westminster, received £18,949.80 in 2016-17 alone, and has racked up £16,948.83 in 2017-18 and a further £9,296 so far this financial year
The Duke of Wellington, educated at Eton and Oxford, is believed to have received over £80,000 in EU subsidies for part of his 7,000 acre Hampshire estate in 2015. He is also believed to have claimed other separate subsidies for land he owns in Spain and Belgium. He is also one of 17 of the UK’s 24 non-Royal Dukes who receive large annual EU farm subsidies for the land they own.
In 2015, according to official figures, the total figure was around £4.6billion, the bulk paid to aristocrats directly or to trusts, companies and entities controlled by them.
[/font]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 March 2019, 05:29:07 pm
Quote
Here we go ........ it all begins to make sense now ..... but explains a lot about the people listed below.
Dominic Grieve:
owns building land in France and receives donations from German businesses.
Anna Soubry:
owns property in Portugal and gets donations from the Ulster Unionist Party (a Remain group).
Chuka Umunna:
gets hospitality and payments (along with Grieve) from the Franco(French)-British Colloque and he also took a £50,000 donation from Farr Vinters Ltd, whose main business is, in their own words, "the purchase and sale of top Bordeaux wines" as well as "an in depth range of wines from other French regions including Burgundy, the Rhône and Loire valleys, Champagne and Alsace."
Joanna Cherry:
the SNP's gob in Westminster, is yet another beneficiary of the Franco-British Colloque and also has received donations and hospitality from the Public Diplomacy Council of Catalonia (you know, that region of Spain that voted for independence which was later criminalized).
Ian Blackford:
another SNP hypocrite, has shareholdings in Commsworld - a telecoms company that relies on sub-sea links to mainland Europe.
Vince Cable:
receives hospitality from IBEC, which is an organisation representing business interests in the Republic of Ireland.
These are but a few traitors with conflicting interests.
(Source:) Register of Members' Financial Interests (as of 03/12/2018) These traitors are only interested in their own selfish affairs, not democracy or
Quote
the UK as they profess publicly.
Vocal Leave supporters like Rees-Mogg, Boris, Raab, Davies and Barclay don't have anything invested in the EU (except for one fund in Ireland that exists only to facilitate business with Northern Ireland). Farage has a German wife and still thinks leaving is right! Funny that... The truth is plain to see - you need only open your eyes
Bercow has received more than £70,000 worth of freebies and earns £153,145 a year and has a grace-and-favour home in Westminster, received £18,949.80 in 2016-17 alone, and has racked up £16,948.83 in 2017-18 and a further £9,296 so far this financial year
The Duke of Wellington, educated at Eton and Oxford, is believed to have received over £80,000 in EU subsidies for part of his 7,000 acre Hampshire estate in 2015. He is also believed to have claimed other separate subsidies for land he owns in Spain and Belgium. He is also one of 17 of the UK’s 24 non-Royal Dukes who receive large annual EU farm subsidies for the land they own.
In 2015, according to official figures, the total figure was around £4.6billion, the bulk paid to aristocrats directly or to trusts, companies and entities controlled by them.
Where do you dig this shit up from?  Apart from being weak as fuck, half of it is bullshit.  It makes as much sense as your previous Lisbon Treaty post. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 March 2019, 05:30:25 pm
Quote
Looks like the Labour party have a little problem of their own.
 
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-47482048 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-47482048)

The Equalities and Human Rights Commission said it was considering launching a formal investigation into anti-Semitism in the party.
 
I am sure the Labour party would welcome such an investigation.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 07 March 2019, 07:11:56 pm
hit a raw nerve VNA. :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 March 2019, 07:28:07 pm
Quote
hit a raw nerve VNA. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

Naw, your just postin pure pish.  I kinda feel sorry for you that you're takin in by that crap.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 07 March 2019, 07:31:05 pm
A disorderly no-deal Brexit would be only half as damaging as the Bank of England warned three months ago, Mark Carney has said. SOURCE: The Financial Times

Just saying.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 March 2019, 07:47:19 pm
Quote
A disorderly no-deal Brexit would be only half as damaging as the Bank of England warned three months ago, Mark Carney has said. SOURCE: The Financial Times
 
Just saying.

https://www.moneywise.co.uk/news/2019-03-06/damage-to-the-economy-no-deal-brexit-would-now-be-less-we-feared-says-bank-england (https://www.moneywise.co.uk/news/2019-03-06/damage-to-the-economy-no-deal-brexit-would-now-be-less-we-feared-says-bank-england)
 
Yes interesting.



 It would be nice if he would explain why his figures have changed in a bit more detail, rather than just the bland statement “thanks to contingency plans being put in place by the bank and the government.”
 
But at the end of the day, this is just not quite as catastrophic as before, but still catastrophic, and still even more damaging than May’s, not very good for the UK, deal.
 
I’m pretty sure if you asked him what was the best deal, he would confirm that we already have the best deal. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 March 2019, 08:09:12 pm
'Contingency Plans'. What contingency plans? All I see is mess, failure and bluff.  O they mean the ones where Grayling is in charge  :eek


Anyway, as said before 'No Deal' won't happen, under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 07 March 2019, 08:20:32 pm
VNA-Naw, your just postin pure pish.  I kinda feel sorry for you that you're takin in by that crap.
[/size]I like posting shit gets to fools who bite. as for me taking in by crap,I dont believe half the crap thats in the papers or MP's
[/size]even some post on here.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 March 2019, 08:25:29 pm
Quote
I like posting shit gets to fools who bite. as for me taking in by crap,I dont believe half the crap thats in the papers or MP's even some post on here.
Well you are posting it.  You need tae find better bait.  Try harder. :lol
I went went fishing here the place would foccin explode.   ;)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 08 March 2019, 06:33:37 am
You ain't that good a wind up artist VNA most on here see clean through you. So tek the sen away and shut ur gob
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 08 March 2019, 08:22:54 am
Quote
I
I went went fishing here the place would foccin explode.   ;)


And there is the proof that you are just another sad pathetic internet troll.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 March 2019, 05:54:08 pm
 
Quote
I went went fishing here the place would foccin explode.   ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])

Whoops.
That should have been;


If I went fishing here the place would foccin explode.  ;)


But no I don't.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 March 2019, 06:04:31 pm
 Meanwhile the Tories once more have their ignorance, bigotry and incompetence on full display for all to see, and all in one day;
 
Amber Rudd calls Diane Abbott a 'coloured woman' during BBC radio interview
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/amber-rudd-diane-abbott-coloured-woman-racism-bbc-jeremy-vine-a8812251.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/amber-rudd-diane-abbott-coloured-woman-racism-bbc-jeremy-vine-a8812251.html)


Andrea Leadsom under fire for suggesting Foreign Office should help define Islamophobia in Britain
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andrea-leadsom-islamophobia-commons-debate-foreign-office-a8812521.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/andrea-leadsom-islamophobia-commons-debate-foreign-office-a8812521.html)

 
Karen Bradley admits ignorance of Northern Ireland politics
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/07/karen-bradley-admits-not-understanding-northern-irish-politics (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/07/karen-bradley-admits-not-understanding-northern-irish-politics)
 
Amazing.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 March 2019, 06:16:34 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1Iu5ZtXcAA7oa6.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 March 2019, 03:16:10 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1OMfK7WkAAuXf_.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 10 March 2019, 05:54:30 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1T9-4BWkAAN-Ev.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 March 2019, 10:08:09 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1VUpUPWwAAf1_M.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 March 2019, 10:08:46 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1YCY7OXgAAFzlS.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 11 March 2019, 10:27:05 pm
you should compile a book of the unfunniest cartoons ever written. seriously though, I havnt seen one thats even vaguely humerous, let alone funny.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 March 2019, 12:33:45 am
How about this one then? It's hilarious
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 12 March 2019, 09:45:15 am
oh my aching sides...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 March 2019, 04:28:01 pm
Tap water?. I thought they were all going to run dry under Brexit?.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 March 2019, 04:36:32 pm
Good point. It should have read `Peckham Spring'.


BTW all looking a bit feisty for tonight's vote....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 12 March 2019, 06:14:37 pm
that's Tories for ya
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 March 2019, 06:18:47 pm

Here's my prediction....


The Government loses tonight's vote, but by a smaller margin than previously.
Admittedly it'd be a job to beat the size of the last one :rolleyes .


Then tomorrow Parliament will vote to reject 'No Deal'.


Next they will vote for an extension to Article 50. The EU will grant this on condition that there's a second referendum. Parliament votes for this course of action.


Leave win the second referendum, but Parliament has the final say. The Remainers in Westminster repeatedly thwart the result and we're back to square one :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 12 March 2019, 07:58:52 pm
It's been a stitch up from the start non of the MP's thought leavers would ever command a majority at the referendum so they just played the system, to run it out of time. This is the week Democracy died in the United Kingdom and that's whether you voted for or against Brexit. Perhaps it's time we found another way to vote for the people that represent us the people in parliament and got rid of the old boy/girls you scratch my back I'll scratch yours net work.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 March 2019, 09:57:24 pm
 
Quote
It's been a stitch up from the start

Absolute correct.  The referendum was not held for the benefit of the people.  The people frankly didn’t particularly want a referendum on the EU.
The referendum was offered in order to unite a divided Tory party for long enough to prevent Labour winning an election.

David Cameron figured he couldn’t win a majority but either as a minority government or with a liberal coalition the referendum would be voted down in parliament.  So, he felt free to offer it confident that he would not be able to deliver it to the people.
But he did win a small majority and having no real choice but to put it to parliament it was voted through with that small but workable Tory majority.  Still he felt no real need to worry as with a solid remain campaign the people would not be daft enough to vote to leave.  So, they didn’t even consider the consequences of a leave vote.
Once held and the result over the UK as a whole (not Scotland and Northern Ireland) was to leave, well you know the rest.  With May’s disastrous snap election we were delivered into the hands of the ruthless aristocratical and monied wing of the Tory party whom quickly moved the goal posts and have held the country to ransom ever since.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 March 2019, 09:58:45 pm
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 March 2019, 10:02:45 pm
Quote
I havnt seen one thats even vaguely humerous, let alone funny.
Here's anither fae ye! :lol
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1fGB-2WsAED_pA.jpg)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Frosties on 12 March 2019, 11:02:54 pm
Quote
It's been a stitch up from the start

Absolute correct.  The referendum was not held for the benefit of the people.  The people frankly didn’t particularly want a referendum on the EU.
The referendum was offered in order to unite a divided Tory party for long enough to prevent Labour winning an election.

David Cameron figured he couldn’t win a majority but either as a minority government or with a liberal coalition the referendum would be voted down in parliament.  So, he felt free to offer it confident that he would not be able to deliver it to the people.
But he did win a small majority and having no real choice but to put it to parliament it was voted through with that small but workable Tory majority.  Still he felt no real need to worry as with a solid remain campaign the people would not be daft enough to vote to leave.  So, they didn’t even consider the consequences of a leave vote.
Once held and the result over the UK as a whole (not Scotland and Northern Ireland) was to leave, well you know the rest.  With May’s disastrous snap election we were delivered into the hands of the ruthless aristocratical and monied wing of the Tory party whom quickly moved the goal posts and have held the country to ransom ever since.


Totally agree with both of you.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 March 2019, 11:07:35 pm
Quote
Here's my prediction....
The Government loses tonight's vote, but by a smaller margin than previously.Admittedly it'd be a job to beat the size of the last one  .
Then tomorrow Parliament will vote to reject 'No Deal'.
Next they will vote for an extension to Article 50. The EU will grant this on condition that there's a second referendum. Parliament votes for this course of action.
Leave win the second referendum, but Parliament has the final say. The Remainers in Westminster repeatedly thwart the result and we're back to square one

I think you are right..... up until the second referendum, which Remain will win by a comfortable majority. Because of changes in the voting population and because more people will realise what a disaster Brexit is and the lies they were told. Then we will be back to square one, before this whole sorry mess started  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 12 March 2019, 11:28:48 pm
 
Quote
which Remain will win by a comfortable majority.

I would hope so.  Back in 2016 100,000’s of people who had never voted before in their lives came out and voted.  There may be a backlash, that resounding vote may still be there – or will they really all come out a second time.  I don’t know.  But what I do know, is that there will be little or no apathy in the remain camp.  Those who want to remain will be under no illusion – they must get to the polls – and the youth of this country will be motivated like never before – just as they were in Scotland in 2014.  It’s their future – it’s our future.  We need to put a stop to this madness.

 
But to be honest – right now – the only thing we can be absolutely certain about – is well nobody really knows what will happen next.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 March 2019, 11:55:22 pm
Best bit I heard is that Leavers might boycott a second referendum. Bring it on...  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 13 March 2019, 06:24:10 am
I was not picking any single party out for the blame of this complete shambles they have left us in, they are ALL as guilty as each other. There is NOT an MP sitting in parliament of any party worthy of TRUST or RESPECT from the people of this once great nation.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 March 2019, 07:33:57 am

Best bit I heard is that Leavers might boycott a second referendum. Bring it on...  :D


I'd heard that they were going to participate in the second one, but boycott the third which Remain will inevitably call for if they lose again ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 10:11:29 am
The blame for all this shambles is down to May. Whether a Leaver or Remainer it's clear her tactics have been wrong since the beginning.
She called a general election she didn't need to, lost her majority and handed disproportionate power to the DUP
She spent 2 years trying to appease the ERG and failed
She thought she could bully and blackmail the EU and failed
She was handed the opportunity by Labour of going for a softer Brexit, which would have got a Parliamentary majority and refused to take it.
So she decided to run the clock down. Nobody else blinked.
It was always more important to her to keep the Tory party in one piece than do what's best for the country.
She is a stubborn woman. It's her way or no way. She doesn't do 'compromise'
She's failed miserably and polarised the country. The rest of the world is laughing at us.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: robbo on 13 March 2019, 10:25:01 am
I think MP's lost sight of the fact that they are the representative of their constituents. Out of 650 MP's, 480 voted to Remain, outnumbering Leavers by 3:1. They've ignored the country's vote and followed their own agendas. Roughly 70% of Conservative and 60% of Labour seats, voted to leave, so let us leave with no deal, we'll be fine in the long run.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 11:12:19 am
Quote
so let us leave with no deal, we'll be fine in the long run
But that's not what was on the referendum ballot paper. So people didn't vote for that either.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: robbo on 13 March 2019, 11:19:06 am
But the options were
Remain a member of the EU, or, Leave the EU.
No mention of only leave providing certain parameters were met.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 11:30:52 am
But also no option for what type of Leave. That was the problem with the question. Remain was clear - the status quo. Leave was 'Leave and then what kind of relationship do you want with the EU - None at all/Trading deal/Residency deal/Banking deal etc etc. Those questions weren't asked, and people are just assuming the only option was' None' and that's what 52% voted for. That's why we are currently in the **** we're in.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 March 2019, 11:42:28 am
So we have another referendum with the 2 options...'Leave with May's deal' or 'Leave with no deal'. Sorted :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 12:11:55 pm
I may abstain  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 13 March 2019, 12:25:20 pm
So we have another referendum with the 2 options...'Leave with May's deal' or 'Leave with no deal'. Sorted :)
Yes we have had the "do you want to remain" vote and we told them no so now the vote should be how we LEAVE. It sickens me to hear those politicians who want to reverse the referendum but will not directly say so when asked.
I think it is a remain unicorn and disrespect to the younger generation to think they all want to remain, although they have been brainwashed by the liberal left dominated education system. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 12:28:13 pm
But of course (thankfully) that's not going to happen, however much you want it :)


Trouble is, you were mis-sold by the Leave campaign. You may be able to claim compensation  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 March 2019, 12:52:59 pm

Apparently the chances of Parliament agreeing to a second referendum at all are virtually non existent so I very much doubt you'll get the opportunity to vote Remain again, no matter how much you want it :)


As for claiming compensation, isn't it The Remoaners that have always complained that the referendum result was invalid for one reason or another?. I was happy enough with it :lol . As far as I'm concerned we're still leaving :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 01:13:39 pm
May will agree to a second referendum only when all the other options have run out...... which is shortly
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 13 March 2019, 05:29:23 pm
Sorry, we eavers will win again obviously as this poll shows,
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24868.msg290695.html#msg290695 (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,24868.msg290695.html#msg290695)


60 %  vote to leave, is that a big enough majority this time?  :)



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 March 2019, 05:40:01 pm
 
Quote
I was not picking any single party out for the blame of this complete shambles they have left us in, they are ALL as guilty as each other.

No, no, no.  Steve, it was the government that put the referendum to the people.  Having done so and got a result that they did not want, it is the governments job to deliver on the instruction of the people.


Let us be clear, it is not the job of the opposition to deliver government business.


This is about the Tory party – period.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 March 2019, 05:43:45 pm
 
Quote
So we have another referendum with the 2 options...'Leave with May's deal' or 'Leave with no deal'. Sorted :)
That is not a choice.  I too, and with out doubt over 50% of voters would abstain.  Any such referendum would be declared invalid.
The question is much more likely to be;


May’s deal (It’s the only deal on the table)


Or


Cancel article 50.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 March 2019, 05:57:45 pm
 I think we need to understand that the 27 EU countries are now in control.  Not because they want to be, but because May and her government are incompetent. 
 
So, what will likely happen this evening (in my opinion) is that parliament will vote by a substantial majority to reject NO DEAL.
 
But that does not change reality.  We will still be heading to NO DEAL.  It is the current default position.
 
The next vote may be to extend article 50.  If that is what happens it will go through with a majority.
 
That then goes to the EU.   To get their agreement we will have to demonstrate that we have a way forward, or if we don’t have a way forward, we need to demonstrate that there is a plan that will lead to a way forward.
 
The 27 countries will need to agree the extension.  If we can’t demonstrate a way forward, they will not grant an extension to article 50.
 
If that happens, your guess is as good as mine.  The government may push May’s deal again (I kid you not) – they may drive us to a no deal.  Or they may cancel article 50.  And if not the parliament will have to force the government to cancel article 50.
 
If May still tries to run the clock down, the EU may grant an emergency extension of a few weeks to allow our parliament to kill BREXIT.
 
Remember what they say about Juncker.  He might like a wee bevvy but he is one still of the smartest political operators in the world.  What they say is – Juncker always gets what he wants. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 March 2019, 06:00:57 pm
Quote
There you are VNA  a thread all of your own for all your clap trap on Brexit and other politics.    ENJOY 
Almost forgot.
Congratulations to Steve10562cc.  100 pages dude.  The most popular thread today on foc-u. :)
Well done bud.  :guitar :lurk :thumbup :smokin :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 March 2019, 06:39:38 pm
Of course we coud still head towards a second referendum, or a general election.
But whatever way you look at it May is a 100% failure.  She's done as PM now.


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 07:10:31 pm
Quote
The next vote may be to extend article 50.  If that is what happens it will go through with a majority.

The EU are saying tonight that they won't grant an extension if May is just going to come back and try to make further changes to her deal. Her 'deal' is dead. Even her Chancellor is telling her to compromise.


The best deal is the one we already have
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 March 2019, 07:22:46 pm
Quote
Her 'deal' is dead.
You mean dead and.............(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1iZYKVXQAEkDMI.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 07:30:20 pm
Latest - Parliament votes to reject No Deal, under any circumstances, not just by 29th March  :)



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 March 2019, 07:41:21 pm
That's good news, but that does not mean that No Deal cannot happen.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 March 2019, 08:19:42 pm
 :guitar You can check out any time you like....but you can never leave :guitar
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 08:22:26 pm
Malthouse 'managed deal' voted down by large majority
Tories,  including ministers voting against May's instructions
Expected ministerial resignations
Government in chaos


This gets better and better  :lurk
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 13 March 2019, 08:37:38 pm
Jeez, what a foccing mess
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 13 March 2019, 08:52:21 pm
Perhaps we should sack all the MPs vote 650 new MPs who,s only qualification is common sense don't behave like a bunch of spoiled hooligan brats in parliament and have this countries interests at heart in stead of their own. They should all hang their heads in shame. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 March 2019, 09:16:22 pm
 My fear now is this.
The ERG fear losing BREXIT altogether.
They go to May and tell her they will support her deal.
The DUP won’t budge.
But with the support of the ERG and rebel Labour MP’s voting with the government or abstaining, May’s deal could go through on a 3rd meaningful vote.


Remember May’s deal just kicks the can down the road.


So once it is through the ERG can switch back to obtaining as hard a BREXIT as possible. 

Which could mean ten years of doing BREXIT.

Anything can happen.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 March 2019, 10:27:16 pm
Why does May think she can bring her failed deal back 3 times, yet deny a second referendum?
Bullying and blackmail, her only solution. No credibility whatsoever.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 March 2019, 11:23:55 pm
 She’s a bloody difficulty woman.


A lot of MP’s are going to start shitting their pants now.


May will be having a lot of private conversations over the next week.  She’ll threaten the ERG with back me or no BREXIT.  She’ll threaten others with a general election – you’ll lose your seat.  She’ll threaten yet others that she will resign if they don’t vote for her deal – see how you get on you pricks.


At the end of the day she cares more about herself then anything else.  The ERG have repeatedly rubbed her nose in the dirt.  Now she’s gonna pull the pin and go for her pound of flesh.  It’s all or nothing for May.  This is her last stand.  May before country, May before her party, don’t mess with the bloody difficult woman.


She might just yet get this through.  Even the DUP will start shitting bricks in a day or two.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Dave48 on 14 March 2019, 09:51:48 am
Is there a single MP (our so-called elected REPRESENTATIVES) who is capable or willing to put our country ahead of their self serving,short term,private interests?
I am totally disgusted at the shambles of all this f*****g nonsense.
Maybe its time to change the whole bloody system and get some professional managers running the country instead of these greedy, out of touch, selfish braying donkeys. Makes me sick to be British!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 March 2019, 09:54:39 am

Why does May think she can bring her failed deal back 3 times, yet deny a second referendum?


If you got a second referendum and Remain lost again you'd then demand a third and so on.... :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 March 2019, 10:04:38 am
Quote
She might just yet get this through.  Even the DUP will start shitting bricks in a day or two.
Lots of arm twisting and lying going on this morning.
Ministers who abstained against the 3 line whip last night were 'confused'
Attorney General's previous advice that Vienna Convention couldn't be used to remove NI backstop 'may have been wrong' .
A stitch up is occurring at the moment to try and get May's deal through.
This government, and May in particular are a disgrace.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 March 2019, 10:07:55 am
Quote
and Remain lost again
But that wouldn't happen  :)


The best deal is the one we already have
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 March 2019, 10:42:33 am

But that wouldn't happen  :)



Yeah, yeah we've heard that one before :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 March 2019, 10:49:11 am
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 March 2019, 10:50:01 am
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 March 2019, 11:10:37 am
I suggest you forward those to Mrs May :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 14 March 2019, 11:22:23 am
Yesterday when may went through the list of possibles and she mentioned no brexit there was a massive cheer in the house. All those MPs who campaigned for and won their seat on the back of backing/respecting the referendum.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 March 2019, 11:38:07 am
Yep that's why a lot of them, especially the Labour MP's in the northern marginals, are so apprehensive about backing a second referendum. They fear the backlash come election time ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 March 2019, 11:44:21 am
Quote
All those MPs who campaigned for and won their seat on the back of backing/respecting the referendum.   
I think it was all those MPs who represent Remain majority constituencies. Not including former Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab of course (Esher and Walton 58.4% Remain), Theresa Villiers, former NI secretary (Chipping Barnet 58.9% Remain) etc etc. All continuously voting against the wishes of their constituents.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 14 March 2019, 12:30:24 pm
Don't know why they bothered with the first referendum MP's never had any intention of leaving the EU what ever the result. Might as well not have any more elections,  referendums, just leave to the MP's and the old boy/girls network and stop pretending we live in a democracy. We had a civil war 400 odd years ago made no difference then and this has made no difference now still run by the old boy network and the secret handshake brigade. :eek   :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 March 2019, 12:36:33 pm

Quote
All those MPs who campaigned for and won their seat on the back of backing/respecting the referendum.   
I think it was all those MPs who represent Remain majority constituencies. Not including former Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab of course (Esher and Walton 58.4% Remain), Theresa Villiers, former NI secretary (Chipping Barnet 58.9% Remain) etc etc. All continuously voting against the wishes of their constituents.


Don't 401 out of 632 MP's, that's 63%, represent constituencys that voted Leave?

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 March 2019, 01:00:26 pm
Quote
Don't 401 out of 632 MP's, that's 63%, represent constituencys that voted Leave?
Didn't realise it was a numbers thing. Thought it was about individual responsibility.
OK if it's about numbers, May had her deal rejected (again) by 391 (62%) votes to 242. So without any further changes being agreed with the EU, why are they being asked to vote again?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 March 2019, 01:51:19 pm


Didn't realise it was a numbers thing. Thought it was about individual responsibility.



So why critisise Dominic Raab and Theresa Villiers for voting contrary to the majority of their constituents then?

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 March 2019, 02:16:16 pm
Um because they also voted against their wishes. You Leavers seem to think responsibility only works in one direction.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 March 2019, 02:48:19 pm

Um because they also voted against their wishes.



So with each MP voting in accordance with the wishes of the majority of their constiuents you simply come back to my numbers (401 to 231) then :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 March 2019, 05:21:16 pm
Amendment calling for new referendum rejected by 334 votes to 85 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 March 2019, 07:50:04 pm
Quote
Amendment calling for new referendum rejected by 334 votes to 85

Defeated? Labour just picking their moment  :) Anyway, no Brexit on 29th March. End of June at least, so plenty of time for things to change.


What you Leavers must remember, is that the only 'deal' that might be passed by Parliament is the transition arrangements. The interim position, which is basically that everything stays the same. Same Customs Union, Single Market, free movement, payments to the EU etc That's for the next 2 years at least while the UK negotiates a full long term relationship with the EU. The EU won't be easy to deal with. May will want a close relationship, and we could easily end up very close, like Norway. Still paying in, still following rules.


You've been duped  :lol

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 March 2019, 09:34:00 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1pjCfRWkAYPhzO.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 March 2019, 11:37:15 am



You've been duped  :lol 



In all likelihood Leave will get duped.


The majority of the voters and the constituencys are Leave, but Parliament is overwhelmingly Remain.


Leave won the referendum and have the mandate, but when it comes to the crunch Remain have Parliament :\
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 15 March 2019, 04:17:26 pm
Patience good people. The only nation yet to leave the EU was Greenland, and it took them 3 years. Its not over till the fat lady sings, and I cant wait to see the smug smiles wiped off the faces of the arrogant foccers acting against the national interest
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: slappy on 15 March 2019, 04:36:20 pm
Patience good people. The only nation yet to leave the EU was Greenland, and it took them 3 years. Its not over till the fat lady sings, and I cant wait to see the smug smiles wiped off the faces of the arrogant foccers acting against the national interest


Exactly,  delays because of weak willed politicians just makes our eventual leaving even more pleasing.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 March 2019, 04:46:11 pm
Stephen Barclay, the current Brexit Secretary made the government's case for an extension beyond 29th March yesterday, then voted against it. What the foc is going on?  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 15 March 2019, 05:09:30 pm

Who knows what'll happen next :eek

Yesterday Corbyn instructed his MP's to abstain in the 2nd referendum vote then straight after said how Labour support a 2nd poll, thus keeping their voters in the North happy one minute and the South the next :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 15 March 2019, 06:45:35 pm

Who knows what'll happen next :eek

Yesterday Corbyn instructed his MP's to abstain in the 2nd referendum vote then straight after said how Labour support a 2nd poll, thus keeping their voters in the North happy one minute and the South the next :lol


I think there's common agreement between our two sides that there are numerous factions at work in parliament, for a variety of reasons and that you currently can't bank on any MP holding the same view for more than a second. Duplicitous foccers at work
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 March 2019, 06:57:29 pm
 
Quote
In all likelihood Leave will get duped.
You were duped in 2016.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 15 March 2019, 07:59:39 pm
Quote
I think there's common agreement between our two sides that there are numerous factions at work in parliament, for a variety of reasons and that you currently can't bank on any MP holding the same view for more than a second. Duplicitous foccers at work
Absolutely agree.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 March 2019, 08:30:51 pm
If only she had listened to the Donald.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1s1_39X0AAW73u.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 March 2019, 01:13:05 pm

Quote
In all likelihood Leave will get duped.
You were duped in 2016.


Oh the 'This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide' pledge.


Time will tell I guess, but yes I agree, we probably were duped by that promise :\
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 March 2019, 04:20:29 pm
Today's news funny
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 16 March 2019, 07:34:52 pm
Incidently, talking of Jarrow, South Tyneside voted massively in favour of Leave over Remain in the referendum :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 16 March 2019, 07:39:43 pm
They did, but I don't think any of the 1936 marchers managed to vote  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 17 March 2019, 12:04:28 am
Today's news funny

Nigel Farage to lead about 68 people on his march, but then, as is typical,  he starts something then bails out and leaves everyone else to sort it out for him (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-march-leave-farage-betrayal-sunderland-london-a8826126.html)...

PS https://marchtoleave.co.uk/index.html (https://marchtoleave.co.uk/index.html) :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 17 March 2019, 04:05:00 pm
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1101291/brexit-news-theresa-may-delay-article-50-eu-british-industries-jobs-spt?fbclid=IwAR1vD1XS-2LiTznWrvQtKwNstfwrVcolRi8w2Pwjj8edDIp7N3aRmFhn4VI (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1101291/brexit-news-theresa-may-delay-article-50-eu-british-industries-jobs-spt?fbclid=IwAR1vD1XS-2LiTznWrvQtKwNstfwrVcolRi8w2Pwjj8edDIp7N3aRmFhn4VI)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 March 2019, 04:27:25 pm

Nigel Farage to lead about 68 people on his march, but then, as is typical,  he starts something then bails out and leaves everyone else to sort it out for him (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-march-leave-farage-betrayal-sunderland-london-a8826126.html)...
Why say typical - starts something then leaves it to everyone else. He started Ukip - won the referendum and quit having achieved the job- done. Its not his fault the result is being betrayed by the duplicitous shameful politicians.     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 March 2019, 07:27:31 pm
Quote
He started Ukip - won the referendum and quit having achieved the job- done.
Yes he has made quite an impact. 

However he has never had, and never will have, any serious political responsibility.
He's sold you something he has absolutely no responsibility for delivering. And it will make Nigel richer whilst we get poorer.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 March 2019, 07:59:17 pm

He's sold you something he has absolutely no responsibility for delivering.
Which is also not his fault but is the politicians fault because they could (should) of made him Sir or Lord Farage and brought him into the government as the minster for brexit.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 March 2019, 08:33:42 pm
Quote
Which is also not his fault but is the politicians fault because they could (should) of made him Sir or Lord Farage and brought him into the government as the minster for brexit.
He failed to be elected as an MP seven times :)
The Tories (thankfully) want nothing to do with him.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 March 2019, 08:42:39 pm
Quote
He failed to be elected as an MP seven times :)
The Tories (thankfully) want nothing to do with him.
Yes indeed Nigel and his party have time and time again been rejected by the public.  The fact is an EU referendum was not a priority for the British public. 



However, the Tories know something of what Labour seems to know nothing of.  That is, you can’t win an election with a divided party.  Hence David Cameron used the referendum in an attempt to win the most seats in parliament.  He did not think, though, that he would win a majority.  Not even Cameron seriously wanted to risk putting this referendum to the people.


We are now in the middle of what is probably the biggest politcal fuck up ever in the history of the Westminster parliament.

Quote
we probably were duped
Oh yes, for sure.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 17 March 2019, 08:45:07 pm
Quote
Which is also not his fault but is the politicians fault because they could (should) of made him Sir or Lord Farage and brought him into the government as the minster for brexit.
He failed to be elected as an MP seven times :)
The Tories (thankfully) want nothing to do with him.
Proving my point about it not being his fault he is not in a position to carry out any brexit responsibility and at the same time dismissing VNAs rubbish - thank you. You can not blame him for turning away from responsibility on one hand and then rejoice at him not being elected and prevented from doing anything with the other.
 
Just post some silly cartoons please.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 March 2019, 10:22:22 pm
Here you go then,
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D14cl34XcAAGmPZ.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 March 2019, 11:11:24 pm
And of course this one

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 17 March 2019, 11:13:00 pm
Fazersharp, have you got any good pro Brexit cartoons? I'm keen to see  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 March 2019, 11:38:15 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D113l-TWkAA4C6A.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 18 March 2019, 02:15:45 am
He failed to be elected as an MP seven times :)

Including when he was beaten by a guy dressed as a dolphin... :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 March 2019, 06:18:39 am
Quote
we probably were duped
Oh yes, for sure.

....and here's my full quote, not just the little bit you've extracted....
 
Oh the 'This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide' pledge.


Time will tell I guess, but yes I agree, we probably were duped by that promise :\
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 March 2019, 05:48:10 pm
Bercow rules out May's 3rd vote :eek


Blimey, he's got balls!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 March 2019, 08:47:43 pm
Quote
Bercow rules out May's 3rd vote :eek
 
 
Blimey, he's got balls!

Foc me.  Weird timing.  Surely, he should have announced this directly before the 2nd vote or directly after it.
 
But all the same, timing aside, it makes perfect sense.  The convention is that the same motion cannot be debated twice in one parliamentary session.
It also pushes parliament forwards.
But it means he’s also screwed my last prediction.  I’m wrong again.
And yeah, there will be knives out for him. 

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 March 2019, 08:58:11 pm


Blimey, he's got balls!


Sure has. He's got a 'Bollocks To Brexit' sticker on his car hasn't he?. Oh no it's his wife's car isn't it :rolleyes


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 March 2019, 09:41:51 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1-Fq1kXQAEyMAJ.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 March 2019, 10:25:47 pm

He was saying today that a motion needs to be substantially altered before it can be brought to Parliament to vote on again.


Was MV2 substantially altered from MV1?. I can't see that it was much different.


It seems to me that the main difference between MV2 and MV3 is that the government were looking much more likely to win it :rolleyes


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 18 March 2019, 10:59:30 pm
It was Angela Eagle who asked the question and Berk -o decided to look it up and went 400 years back to find the ruling. He has long since waved good buy to his Knighthood and so no he has no balls - more like he has no knighthood to loose 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 March 2019, 11:06:47 pm
 
Quote
Berk -o decided to look it up and went 400 years back to find the ruling.

And it is indeed the principle on which parliament has operated on since.   The last time parliament deviated from this principle was, we are told, 1921.
Therefore, it appears he is correct.
Like it or not, it moves parliament on.  Progress.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 18 March 2019, 11:32:11 pm

Leavers should be pleased. Bill Cash was, he thinks it's leading to a No Deal........ idiot.
Liked the look on Leadsom's face when Bercow gave her a bollocking. She looked like she'd just swallowed a wasp :lol

This government is not in control  :)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 19 March 2019, 07:05:52 am

VNA Your last cartoon is the only one of the s**t cartoons you and your side kick have posted to make me chuckle  :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 March 2019, 09:39:31 am
Quote
Sure has. He's got a 'Bollocks To Brexit' sticker on his car hasn't he?. Oh no it's his wife's car isn't it

Always helps when the ref is on your side  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 March 2019, 11:24:04 am

If you can't have the same vote more than once then that rules out a second referendum :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 19 March 2019, 11:49:08 am
So if Berk-o has only just realised after checking, then the 2nd (MV2) result should be null and void and the 1st vote figure of a 230 defeat should still stand. And not the 2nd vote figure of a    margin of 149 votes. So the EU needs to respond and renegotiate on the basis of a massive 230 no to their deal and not what they have perceived as a step towards their deal - a no of 149 votes. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 19 March 2019, 12:07:15 pm

If you can't have the same vote more than once then that rules out a second referendum :)


You mean apart from the fact that the Tories *have* already had a second vote?

But if the question is not "Leave/ Remain", but "Leave with May's Deal / No Deal / Remain", the question is (as the Speaker said) "substantially different" because now people can see exactly what they are voting for, rather than vague promises...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 March 2019, 12:18:36 pm


But if the question is not "Leave/ Remain", but "Leave with May's Deal / No Deal / Remain", the question is (as the Speaker said) "substantially different"


So you have two voting options for the Leave voters to choose from, but just one for Remain, thus splitting the Leave vote in two and guaranteeing a Remain win?.


Yes you'd love that wouldn't you :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 19 March 2019, 12:40:12 pm


But if the question is not "Leave/ Remain", but "Leave with May's Deal / No Deal / Remain", the question is (as the Speaker said) "substantially different"


So you have two voting options for the Leave voters to choose from, but just one for Remain, thus splitting the Leave vote in two and guaranteeing a Remain win?.


Yes you'd love that wouldn't you :lol
Well in that case you vote and then the highest two go through to the next round.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 March 2019, 01:35:52 pm
You can't have a referendum with 3 options. It has to be a binary question. Parliament will get to choose the question, as they did last time. Parliament has already ruled out No Deal,so it'll be Leaving under May's Deal/Remain. Easy win  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 March 2019, 01:48:37 pm

Yes Remain would walk it with those options. You alienate all those who wanted to leave with No Deal.


The stitch-up would be complete.


It'd be a hollow 'victory' though. Mass protests like you've never seen before, whole swathes of the electorate disenfranchised from democracy, trust in politics and politicians at an all time low. And the row about The EU would rumble on and on and on.............






Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 March 2019, 02:06:32 pm

You can't have a referendum with 3 options. It has to be a binary question. Parliament will get to choose the question, as they did last time. Parliament has already ruled out No Deal,so it'll be Leaving under May's Deal/Remain. Easy win  :)


So you'd have the same general option as before for Remain, but a modified narrowed down more specific option for Leave?


In other words a re-run of 2016, but with only one side altered?.


Can't see Parliament agreeing to such a fit-up as that :lol


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 March 2019, 02:10:27 pm

Parliament has already ruled out No Deal,so it'll be Leaving under May's Deal/Remain. Easy win  :)


It would be the people voting, not Parliament. The people haven't ruled out No Deal :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 March 2019, 02:44:38 pm
You don't need to alter Remain, it's quite specific. Leave would have to be a specific version, unlike the 'Leave and then what?' in 2016. The other option could be a specific 'No Deal' but as said Parliament will get to choose, and there aren't enough No Deal MPs. Labour has suggested it will back May's deal on condition she puts it to a referendum. So the direction is there.


Actually I've just had a look at the latest news headlines, and I haven't a foccing clue what's going on at the moment. But I suspect I'm not alone  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 March 2019, 04:33:50 pm
Actually I've just had a look at the latest news headlines, and I haven't a foccing clue what's going on at the moment. But I suspect I'm not alone  :rolleyes
May's going to write to Tusk begging for an extension up until the end of June....or possibly longer. Up to two years longer maybe. How humiliating.

They're acting all superior and pretending to think about it, but we all know that they're shitting themselves about the UK leaving with no deal, or at all, and will definately grant it in the hope that it might lead to Article 50 being revoked or the rigged referendum that you refer to.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 March 2019, 06:05:57 pm
Just put Corbyn in charge. Sorted  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 March 2019, 07:14:00 pm


General election I say. We need stronger government.



That may be the Conservatives with a decent working majority by the way.




Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 March 2019, 07:47:44 pm
Is that those 'strong and stable' Conservatives you're talking about?  :)


To be honest, if it's May vs Corbyn I expect the lowest turnout ever..... and the Lib Dems to get in  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 March 2019, 08:22:37 pm
Nothing would surprise me any more after all this :\
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 19 March 2019, 08:30:07 pm
Perhaps if nobody turned out to vote the MPs all of them from every party would realise what shower of  s**t the general public thought they were. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 19 March 2019, 09:15:55 pm
Time to roll out article 61 of the Magna Carter and withhold our tax payments.


http://www.paparty.co.uk/direct_democracy_tax.htm (http://www.paparty.co.uk/direct_democracy_tax.htm)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 19 March 2019, 10:19:41 pm
(https://scontent.fdub4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/55535188_1149289018574599_2965370958757494784_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub4-1.fna&oh=a17ab835551e8789086cd6089a928865&oe=5D0DBA07)
 :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 March 2019, 12:02:10 am
Quote
Perhaps if nobody turned out to vote the MPs all of them from every party would realise what shower of  s**t the general public thought they were.
Trouble is there'd always be one idiot that votes, and we'd end up with Farage in charge :pokefun
Quote
Time to roll out article 61 of the Magna Carter and withhold our tax payments.

That could be a bit tricky in practice with PAYE. And VAT, come to think of it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 20 March 2019, 12:04:12 am
So you have two voting options for the Leave voters to choose from, but just one for Remain, thus splitting the Leave vote in two and guaranteeing a Remain win?.

Yes you'd love that wouldn't you :lol

Perhaps you've not heard of the Single Transferrable Vote system?

Or do you think it would be too complicated for people to be required to rank their choices as 1st, 2nd and 3rd?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 20 March 2019, 12:26:33 am
Working PAYE
1. Notify HMRC in writing that you are invoking Article 61 of the Magna Carta [inform them of your tax code].
2. List the government policies that you are unhappy with your tax payments funding and fully explain your reasons [be specific about how you feel about these particular policies]. The government will then have forty days to amend or repeal the policies and if they fail to do so, you then have the legal right to continue to with-hold tax payments.
3. Inform HMRC that you are also informing your employer of your right and will to invoke Article 61 of the Magna Carta.
4. Notify your employer in writing that you have notified HMRC of your right and will to invoke Article 61 of the Magna Carta and that they must therefore cease deducting tax payments from you and that any issues they may have about you invoking Article 61 of the Magna Carta and about them not deducting your tax payments must be addressed by HMRC directly and not by yourself. While knowing that you are not legally qualified to answer to such issues and after being advised by you to approach HMRC to resolve any issues, questioning you would therefore constitute harassment and maybe also obstruction [depending upon their will to comply with your lawful request to invoke Article 61 of the Magna Carta].
[/size]Working self employed[/color]
1. Notify HMRC in writing that you are invoking Article 61 of the Magna Carta [include your self assessment account details].
2. List the government policies that you are unhappy with your tax payments funding and fully explain your reasons [be specific about how you feel about these particular policies]. The government will then have forty days to amend or repeal the policies and if they fail to do so, you then have the legal right to continue to with-hold tax payments.
[/size]Article 61 of the Magna Carta[/color]
PA direct democracy video: The Magna Carta and Article 61 [Lawful Rebellion] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_B5nKPlgSY&feature=plcp) Magna Carta - complete history (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM5AUiicoQo#)[/font]


What could they possibly do to you, after all we live in a free democratic country. :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 March 2019, 08:24:57 am

So you have two voting options for the Leave voters to choose from, but just one for Remain, thus splitting the Leave vote in two and guaranteeing a Remain win?.

Yes you'd love that wouldn't you :lol

Perhaps you've not heard of the Single Transferrable Vote system?

Or do you think it would be too complicated for people to be required to rank their choices as 1st, 2nd and 3rd?


Is this a joke? :lol .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 March 2019, 09:31:53 am
Quote
Working PAYE

I know Dazza, I even followed your link  :eek


But I can't see it happening. No employer is going to stop deducting income tax. Giving hmrc 40 days notice and then taking them to court? Hmmm. And how do we stop paying other taxes, like fuel duty? Do we fill up our tanks and then only pay the garage a fraction of the price?


BTW it's 'Magna Carta' (Latin) rather than 'Magna Carter'. I think you're confusing it with the steak restaurant chain :lol


www.millerandcarter.co.uk (http://www.millerandcarter.co.uk)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 March 2019, 10:05:08 am

'Magna Carter'


Brave Hungarian peasant girl who forced King John to sign the pledge at Runnymede and close the boozers at half past ten ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 March 2019, 10:36:01 am
Yep, as Shakespeare said in "The Merchant Of Vienna," when Portion accused Shylock Holmes of pinching a pound of meat ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 20 March 2019, 11:48:07 am
1. Notify HMRC in writing that you are invoking Article 61 of the Magna Carta

And HMRC respond that:

Of the 61 provisions set out in the 1215 version (as divided and numbered by Sir William Blackstone in 1759), most were repealed between 1828 and 1969 on grounds of obsolescence (https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/practice-points/magna-carta-still-relevant/5049573.article)

Quote
three remain on the statute book.

First, the freedom of the church is confirmed

Second, the pre-existing liberties and customs of the City of London are confirmed:

Third, perhaps the most famous of all: ‘No Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will we not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the Land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.’ (Chapter 39, 1215; Chapter 29, 1225.)


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 March 2019, 03:43:11 pm
I notice also (from Wikipedia) that if the King doesn't comply, Article 61 empowers you 'to seize his castles and land'.
Good luck with that  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 March 2019, 03:51:15 pm
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 March 2019, 05:14:59 pm
 
Quote
I haven't a foccing clue what's going on at the moment.

Neither has the government by the look of it. :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 March 2019, 05:27:01 pm
 Long days at work for me at the moment, so quite hard to get a grip on this.
 
But it looks like May’s deal is somehow coming back for another vote.  The EU it would appear will allow a short extension if May’s deal is passed.
 
So the way it looks to me today, is May’s Deal or No Deal. 
 
It’s No Deal because the EU will not, at this time, grant a long extension unless the UK can provide them with clear evidence that they have a way of moving forward.  So to get a long extension that means, as far as I can see, a general election or a second BREXIT referendum. 
Quote
They're acting all superior and pretending to think about it, but we all know that they're shitting themselves about the UK leaving with no deal, or at all, and will definitely grant it in the hope that it might lead to Article 50 being revoked or the rigged referendum that you refer to.
No they are not, and no they won’t.  It’s not really their problem, and they are tired of wasting time doing BREXIT.  They want to move on, and if the UK is not prepared to do likewise, well the UK can move on without the EU as far as the EU is concerned.

 So, again as I see it, the message from the EU is – jump off the cliff if you want – as frankly our patience has run out.  Alternatively pass May’s deal and we will grant a short extension in order to get the necessary legislation through.   If you can’t achieve that, and you really don’t want to jump off the cliff, then pick from one of two options – second referendum or a general election – in that case they will consider an extension of up to a year or two. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 March 2019, 05:37:09 pm
 Logically the referendum question will be;


May’s Deal
Or No BREXIT.
 
May’s deal is the only deal on the table.  No Deal is not on the table. 



Those who don’t want BREXIT will be motivated like never before.  May’s Deal needs to get all those people who have only ever voted once in their entire lives back out again. 



I can see it going 60/40 in favour of NO BREXIT right across the country.  In Scotland it will be 70% plus for NO BREXIT.  And crucially all four nations will vote to ditch BREXIT.  The last two months have made it clear to the whole country that our government cannot deliver on BREXIT.

 
But hey that’s only if you have a referendum.  The truth is, still anything can happen.  Even Norway could pop up again – and those itching to jump off the cliff – that is still possible too.
 
After over 1000 days trying to figure out what BREXIT will mean we are still in the land of – the only thing you can be sure of is that nobody is sure of anything.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 March 2019, 05:40:55 pm
Quote
VNA Your last cartoon is the only one of the s**t cartoons you and your side kick have posted to make me chuckle  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url])

Well check this one out then.  You gotta foccin laugth bud. :lol
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2FavGiX4AAwmEX.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 March 2019, 06:14:20 pm
Dominic Grieve today is 'ashamed to be a Conservative'. As the SNP said today, she is 'weak, weak, weak'.


There will be many thousands marching on Saturday demanding a second referendum, me included.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 March 2019, 06:50:47 pm
 
Quote
There will be many thousands marching on Saturday demanding a second referendum, me included.
You don’t fancy linking up with stockbroker Nigel’s March to Leave then? :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 March 2019, 07:07:22 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2H459rW0AE-kPu.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 March 2019, 07:40:12 pm
Quote
You don’t fancy linking up with stockbroker Nigel’s March to Leave then?

Is that still going? Seems to have disappeared off the news. Anyway I expect Fartage is just holed up in some Wetherspoons pub somewhere.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 March 2019, 07:41:35 pm
Sounds like Corbin walked into the big meeting with may and the independent group were there (Chuka ) and Corbin turned on his heels walked out muttering "he (Chuka) is not a proper political party leader".
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 20 March 2019, 07:44:04 pm
Quote
You don’t fancy linking up with stockbroker Nigel’s March to Leave then?

Is that still going? Seems to have disappeared off the news.

:eek :rollin :rollin :rollin Well of course it has. I only heard about it on here and I listen to a lot of news during the day.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 March 2019, 07:52:11 pm
 
Quote
Sounds like Corbin walked into the big meeting with may and the independent group were there (Chuka ) and Corbin turned on his heels walked out muttering "he (Chuka) is not a proper political party leader".
You gotta ask what was Chuka doing there – why did May invite him?   Chuka Umunna is neither a leader and nor is he a member of any party.  I mean what the foc. :eek
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 20 March 2019, 08:23:36 pm
What If;

Remain had won the referendum, but the govt triggered Article 50 to take us out.

How would you feel?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 March 2019, 09:01:00 pm
Quote
What If;

Remain had won the referendum, but the govt triggered Article 50 to take us out.

How would you feel?
Aside from that just wouldn’t happen;


Well, how do you think that could happen when the governing party doesn’t actually want to leave the EU?  And what would have been the point of the referendum? 



Look, David Cameron did something stupid.  The people then in turn then asked the government to do something stupid.


You cannot argue that May having been asked to do something stupid has not had a good crack, one way or another, of doing something very stupid.
 
So don’t you feel it’s actually about time we just junked the whole darn thing?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 20 March 2019, 10:32:52 pm
She's now saying the voters are very tired and just want it sorted. Yes very true Theresa, but they seem to be divided between  No Deal and Remain. Not many want your deal. Why don't you understand that? Just let it go.


She's like a foccing irritating school mistress.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 20 March 2019, 11:11:20 pm
Quote
She's now saying the voters are very tired and just want it sorted. Yes very true Theresa,

What she isn’t getting is that we are tired of her.  She is hopeless.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 March 2019, 09:22:27 am

Sounds like Corbin walked into the big meeting with may and the independent group were there (Chuka ) and Corbin turned on his heels walked out muttering "he (Chuka) is not a proper political party leader".


Yeah he threw a hissy fit apparently. Any excuse to be awkward :rolleyes . Labour nearly always put getting one over on the government above the national interest.


It seems to me that Tusk came out with the most sensible comments yesterday. He appeared to be saying you either back May's deal next week or leave with no deal on Friday.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 21 March 2019, 10:39:04 am
YamFaz, has he got the bottle to stick to his word, if like our MPs eh won't they can't lie straight in bed.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Fazerider on 21 March 2019, 11:21:14 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/petitions-site-crashes-after-thousands-back-call-to-revoke-article-50 (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/petitions-site-crashes-after-thousands-back-call-to-revoke-article-50)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 March 2019, 11:32:08 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/petitions-site-crashes-after-thousands-back-call-to-revoke-article-50 (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/petitions-site-crashes-after-thousands-back-call-to-revoke-article-50)
It does not say who started that petition - It was a woman and she was interviewed by phone on the BBC from Cyprus.
The guardian says
The petition began gaining signatures on Wednesday evening after Theresa May criticised MPs for not approving her Brexit deal. 
But the lady herself said that it was getting nowhere and she almost gave up but then started to tell everyone she could (via facebook I assume ) and from there it went a little viral and all BEFORE May's tv statement.The BBC are more than happy to also promote it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 March 2019, 12:14:17 pm

It says 600,000 have signed it. How does that top the 17.4 million who voted to leave?.


I suppose that constitutes 'Democracy' in the fantasy land the Remainers seem to inhabit :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 March 2019, 01:02:25 pm
Quote
It says 600,000 have signed it. How does that top the 17.4 million who voted to leave?
Well it's already well over that figure. Give it time it's only just started.


Anyway, quote from an unnamed Government Minister

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 March 2019, 01:10:56 pm
Quote
But the lady herself said that it was getting nowhere and she almost gave up but then started to tell everyone she could (via facebook I assume ) and from there it went a little viral and all BEFORE May's tv statement
Now 875,000 and still rising fast.
Using Facebook eh? The place where the Russians told you all to vote Leave  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 02:11:20 pm
 
Quote
Yeah he threw a hissy fit apparently. Any excuse to be awkward ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url]). Labour nearly always put getting one over on the government above the national interest.

 
Oh come on!  Foccin wise up YamFazFan.  104 pages in and either you are playing politics yourself or you really do - do not have a clue.
The independent group are not a political party, and nor do they have a leader.


Let me put it this way – do you think May considered inviting Anna Soubry?  Yeah seriously!  I mean if she wanted the so-called Independent group to be there that would have been the respectful thing to do considering she was also inviting the leader of the opposition.  No of course she wouldn’t- hell would have to freeze over before May would willingly invite Soubry to the table.


So yeah it was a set up.  With just a few days to go she’s deploying every dirty political trick in the book.


She is a useless, dishonest, Prime Minister, who frankly is no longer in control of anything.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 02:18:23 pm
Quote
Well it's already well over that figure. Give it time it's only just started.
First I have heard of it.  Just signed it.   Will pass 1 million very shortly.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 21 March 2019, 02:32:16 pm

VNA It's you the one that's spouting the same clap trap as when I unfortunately started this thread I started it so you had your own thread oh forgot about your idiot side kick could spout off and the rest of us didn't have to put up with it. Personally I bitterly regret starting it and wish the moderators would take it down before it rips apart what used to be a great forum. 


PLEASE MODS TAKE THIS THREAD DOWN WHILE WE STILL HAVE A FORUM LEFT
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 02:57:22 pm
Quote
VNA It's you the one that's spouting the same clap trap as when I unfortunately started this thread I started it so you had your own thread oh forgot about your idiot side kick could spout off and the rest of us didn't have to put up with it. Personally I bitterly regret starting it and wish the moderators would take it down before it rips apart what used to be a great forum.
 



 
Steve.  Just back on the 16th of march I posted my first political thread on foc-u.  I broke my own rule.  And I’ve been on this forum since it began.  The only reason I started my Christchurch thread is because I have been shocked by some of the extreme views expressed on this forum.  I am talking about racist, fascist and Islamophobic comments and material.   Not entirely to my surprise the thread has been pretty much ignored – though I had hoped maybe folks would have at least expressed their solidarity with the Muslim communities in Christchurch and indeed here in the UK.  50 innocent people, including young children, shot dead at their place of worship.


As for your BREXIT thread Steve, and lets be absolutely clear – it is your thread Steve, you started it –  I didn’t even comment on it till page 6!  I gave it plenty of time to die before I commented.


It’s clearly not just I and one other person.  But what you are really saying, is that you, like many others here, want to express a political opinion, and you look to others to reinforce that opinion, but you are unable to accept that others may disagree with you.  Sorry, but life ain’t like that.


Oh Steve, congratulations on the most popular foc-u thread in 2019 so far.  Well done bud!


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 March 2019, 03:25:42 pm
Quote
Yeah he threw a hissy fit apparently. Any excuse to be awkward ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url]). Labour nearly always put getting one over on the government above the national interest.

 
Let me put it this way – do you think May considered inviting Anna Soubry?  Yeah seriously!  I mean if she wanted the so-called Independent group to be there that would have been the respectful thing to do considering she was also inviting the leader of the opposition.  No of course she wouldn’t- hell would have to freeze over before May would willingly invite Soubry to the table.
So yeah it was a set up.  With just a few days to go she’s deploying every dirty political trick in the book.

Er I think it go's -------

Of course all the conspiracy theories coming out now.

Of course it's all a big conspiracy


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 March 2019, 03:40:49 pm
  The only reason I started my Christchurch thread is because I have been shocked by some of the extreme views expressed on this forum.  I am talking about racist, fascist and Islamophobic comments and material.   Not entirely to my surprise the thread has been pretty much ignored – though I had hoped maybe folks would have at least expressed their solidarity with the Muslim communities in Christchurch and indeed here in the UK.  50 innocent people, including young children, shot dead at their place of worship.
Yes it was ignored and you then bumped it yourself because it was 10 post's down.over 100 people had looked at your post by then and not one person was willing to post - not because as you say they did not want to express solidarity (in your head ) but because everyone knows that you only posted it so that you could jump on to anyone who did not fully agree with you, then you could virtue signal your way through another 100 pages. Poor F4celess fell right into your trap and as far as I could see from his post he was coming from an angle of being on your side but your are so lost in your own world view that you read what you wanted or expected to read.  258 views now and no one apart from F4celess has posted into it. (of course I discount your wing man/sidekick who is always guaranteed to back you up )
It didn't work - no one will reply, so you are bringing the subject up on this thread just to cause more arguments and discourse.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 March 2019, 04:55:16 pm
Steve - I'm no sidekick and I'm certainly no idiot.


Thanks for the insults. Just reflects on your lack of substance :rolleyes


And Fazersharp - you seem surprised that 48.1% of the population have the same opinion? Really? Or is it just that it's not yours?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: vinnyb on 21 March 2019, 05:42:43 pm
PLEASE MODS TAKE THIS THREAD DOWN WHILE WE STILL HAVE A FORUM LEFT

  +1
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 06:08:32 pm
Quote
Yes it was ignored and you then bumped it yourself because it was 10 post's down.over 100 people had looked at your post by then and not one person was willing to post - not because as you say they did not want to express solidarity (in your head ) but because everyone knows that you only posted it so that you could jump on to anyone who did not fully agree with you, then you could virtue signal your way through another 100 pages. Poor F4celess fell right into your trap and as far as I could see from his post he was coming from an angle of being on your side but your are so lost in your own world view that you read what you wanted or expected to read.  258 views now and no one apart from F4celess has posted into it. (of course I discount your wing man/sidekick who is always guaranteed to back you up )
It didn't work - no one will reply, so you are bringing the subject up on this thread just to cause more arguments and discourse.

Didn’t bump it and I’m not bumping it.  Added 50 dead.  I really not sure where F4celess was coming from and stated so.  Not jumping anybody. 
 
Wasn’t aware you had the same problem as Steve Fazersharp. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 06:13:25 pm
Time fae a giggle.......... :lol
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2IYEOfWwAodu2Q.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grayo on 21 March 2019, 06:38:11 pm
a useless, dishonest, Prime Minister, who frankly is no longer in control of anything.
But that's a fair description of all Prime Ministers and Politicians......They're all thieves and liars.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 06:55:23 pm
Quote
But that's a fair description of all Prime Ministers and Politicians......They're all thieves and liars.
They got voted in.  We voted them in to represent us.
Anyway, so it looks like May's deal is coming back for a thirs time. 

I might be wrong, but I just can't see it going through.
And if it does go through?  I mean the biggest defeat in parliamentary history to being passed.  That would be a calamity itself.
I hope MP's are ready to act fast when (if) this is rejected.  The country will be right on the edge of disaster. 

My prediction today (which might change tomorrow :lol ) is, and I can hardly believe I am saying this - is the second referendum is coming.  We'll need it to avoid no deal.  If May's deal is rejected the EU will basically say, either you go for a second referendum - a general election - or there is No Deal.
What May has done is put the EU in charge.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 07:45:19 pm
(https://screenshotscdn.firefoxusercontent.com/images/fb3d1d92-cdca-46d0-8168-e8df4d147ece.png)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Flooky on 21 March 2019, 07:45:31 pm
I like motorbikes, I got 3 ..the fazer is my road bike used for work etc, I recently bought a Guzzi cos I went to the factory and wanted a sunny day bike, and its let me down already. I also compete in trials at the weekend with my son. for that I use a Sherco, I am shit but I enjoy it and its cheap fun. I don't really give a fuck about people in suits who got nothing in common with me. If we were all at box hill / Bury hill/ newlands etc etc. this shit wouldn be talked about so lets blank it and talk bikes..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Flooky on 21 March 2019, 07:55:25 pm
There is probably a forum for this sort of brexit shit, but this aint it.. I am not being naïve ( spell ?) but falling out over a load of freeloading twats is pointless, we are all into bikes so we should talk about that.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 21 March 2019, 08:05:45 pm
best thing to do is vote with our feet (ok fingers) im kinda sick of it too lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 08:11:23 pm
Quote
I don't really give a fuck about people in suits who got nothing in common with me.
I take your point.  Fair enough.
But BREXIT is relevant to a certain degree to bikes and this forum.
I was in my local, well as local as they get, Yamaha dealer today.
Before the 2016 referendum the on the road price of the MT10 was £10k
I asked what the on the road price was today – it’s £12k 



My guess is that if we do end up with No Deal – the pound will weaken again – plus something like a 10% tariff (lets hope no more) and you are looking at £14k for an MT10.  14,000 quid.  Try 17,000 quid for the MT10SP.



So from full EU membership to No Deal could see a 40% price rise in new bikes.

So I think everybody needs to get on that petition web site and send a message.   It’s at 1.3 million and rising.
Brexit will make everything to do with bikes more expensive – not just one or two quid – seriously more expensive. 



We need to kill BREXIT.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 08:12:20 pm
Quote
best thing to do is vote with our feet (ok fingers) im kinda sick of it too lol
Please!
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 21 March 2019, 08:23:18 pm
lol here we go again...the reason (imho) that we are up shit creek is not because we voted for Brexit. its because that vote was betrayed and sabotaged time and time and time again, ultimately inevitably bringing us to where we are now. Im guessing remainers see this as some sort of victory. enjoy..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 March 2019, 09:27:26 pm
Yes it is a bike forum and there are almost 25 thousand other threads to post in. There has been a few people who have come into this post to proclaim that this is not the place and this is a bike forum and the thread should be closed down. But the whole reason for this thread to be started in the first place is to stop brexit invading every other thread on this bike forum (like it was doing ) and if this is closed down then there will be no where on this forum that is safe from brexit posts.
Just ignore this brexit thread if you are not interested in it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 21 March 2019, 09:32:38 pm

Sounds like Corbin walked into the big meeting with may and the independent group were there (Chuka ) and Corbin turned on his heels walked out muttering "he (Chuka) is not a proper political party leader".


Yeah he threw a hissy fit apparently. Any excuse to be awkward :rolleyes . Labour nearly always put getting one over on the government above the national interest.


It seems to me that Tusk came out with the most sensible comments yesterday. He appeared to be saying you either back May's deal next week or leave with no deal on Friday.


Yes please, lets end it
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 21 March 2019, 09:33:59 pm

It says 600,000 have signed it. How does that top the 17.4 million who voted to leave?.


I suppose that constitutes 'Democracy' in the fantasy land the Remainers seem to inhabit :rolleyes


Ill sign it if it tops 17 million ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 March 2019, 09:40:28 pm
Quote
lol here we go again...the reason (imho) that we are up shit creek is not because we voted for Brexit. its because that vote was betrayed and sabotaged time and time and time again, ultimately inevitably bringing us to where we are now. Im guessing remainers see this as some sort of victory. enjoy..
But where we are now is...... leaving. Why aren't you happy? No victory for us.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 21 March 2019, 09:46:21 pm
  The only reason I started my Christchurch thread is because I have been shocked by some of the extreme views expressed on this forum.  I am talking about racist, fascist and Islamophobic comments and material.   Not entirely to my surprise the thread has been pretty much ignored – though I had hoped maybe folks would have at least expressed their solidarity with the Muslim communities in Christchurch and indeed here in the UK.  50 innocent people, including young children, shot dead at their place of worship.
Yes it was ignored and you then bumped it yourself because it was 10 post's down.over 100 people had looked at your post by then and not one person was willing to post - not because as you say they did not want to express solidarity (in your head ) but because everyone knows that you only posted it so that you could jump on to anyone who did not fully agree with you, then you could virtue signal your way through another 100 pages. Poor F4celess fell right into your trap and as far as I could see from his post he was coming from an angle of being on your side but your are so lost in your own world view that you read what you wanted or expected to read.  258 views now and no one apart from F4celess has posted into it. (of course I discount your wing man/sidekick who is always guaranteed to back you up )
It didn't work - no one will reply, so you are bringing the subject up on this thread just to cause more arguments and discourse.


I ignored it cos the guys constantly fishing, dangling the bait, so he him and his sidekick can brand anyone with another opinion as rascist/homophobic/nationalist/communist/fascist/lefthanded/cross eyed yah yah yah
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 March 2019, 09:53:51 pm
Why have you suddenly popped up on here? Leave it to the professionals :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Flooky on 21 March 2019, 10:26:27 pm
Oh well I tried, you lot need to get out more, ta ta.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 10:36:21 pm
 

Quote
lol here we go again...the reason (imho) that we are up shit creek is not because we voted for Brexit. its because that vote was betrayed and sabotaged time and time and time again, ultimately inevitably bringing us to where we are now. Im guessing remainers see this as some sort of victory. enjoy..


It's about the well monied aristocratical wing of the Tory party.  They are there to protect their own interests and they do not give a flying foc about ordinary people.
 
Victory?  No sorry I ain’t interested.  This isn’t a battle, it’s not a game, it isn’t about who is right or wrong, it’s about the economy stupid (no not you Ogri – just that famous phrase).  Not just the economy, but an economy that works for us – ie ordinary people.
Even the very few economists who believe the UK will prosper economically outside of the EU admit that the wage gap will grow and UK manufacturing will all be but wiped out.  We are already haemorrhaging manufacturing jobs as multi-national companies’ loose patience, and those still here are holding back investment on a wait and see basis.

And motorcycle prices, already up 20% since the referendum, could rise another 20% or more.

How many times have I said it?  The EU is the biggest single open unrestricted free trade market in the world, it’s right on our doorstep and right now today we are fully paid up members of it.  It is well worth the big fee.  It also gives us access to dozens of other markets round the globe via EU trade deals.  It’s good for our economy, it’s good for business – but in a few days’ time there is the real possibility of the UK facing its biggest financial economic crises since the financial disaster of 2007/8.

So all I am saying is – is this what you really want?

It’s just about to pass 2 million.  It’s been growing at 1500  signatures a minute. 
Here’s the link - https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 10:38:42 pm
 
Quote
Oh well I tried, you lot need to get out more, ta ta.
This will help put an end to it dude :D
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584)

Go on - you know you want to ;)     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 10:39:11 pm
Yeah it's passed two million :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 21 March 2019, 10:47:21 pm
Yeah it's passed two million :)
Unfortunately Mrs Georgiadou who started it is not here to enjoy it because she is currently in Cyprus 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 March 2019, 10:56:49 pm
I have friends who are Brexiteers. I manage to have intelligent conversations with them. We discuss possible outcomes and consequences. We disagree, but we respect each other's point of view.


Not on here. How about some of you Leavers tell us about what you think is going to happen? We've been trying to analyse the actions of the UK and the EU, what options May has and where they might end up. How about you do the same,  and we can debate properly? I don't think even you are united. Some must have a No Deal, and some would settle for May's Deal, as long as we leave. How about discussing those options rather than just banging on about 52%?


So how about dragging this away from the playground and ending the personal insults? I would be happy to have a proper informed debate. On the other hand, you are a load of grumpy old blokes, so bound to be right wing Daily Mail reading xenophobes, but I'm used to it  :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 11:48:01 pm
Quote
I have friends who are Brexiteers.
I can think of three people I know who are BREXITEERS.  One is a friend, the other two I get on fine with - no problem. That's it.  It really is.I work in a power station with hundreds of others.  The impression I get at work, well it's hard to find a BREXITEER.  Nobody thinks the EU is super great, but everybody (bar two I know) accept we have to be part of it.  Simply on balance it's a pretty good thing.
Oh I have friends who are Brexiteers.  Oh 2,138,983 signatures now.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 21 March 2019, 11:48:43 pm
Quote
Ill sign it if it tops 17 million ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wink.gif[/url])

I'll hold you to that :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 21 March 2019, 11:59:52 pm
Quote
  The impression I get at work, well it's hard to find a Brexiteer
Essex, my MP is Mark François. I'm surrounded by them  :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 March 2019, 07:25:24 am

you lot need to get out more


We will. There's going to be the European Parliament elections and a second referendum to turn out for soon :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 March 2019, 05:57:34 pm
Quote
It says 600,000 have signed it. How does that top the 17.4 million who voted to leave?.
three million, five hundred and four thousand and 95 signatures.
Wow!
3,504,095
People don't want BREXIT.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Dudeofrude on 22 March 2019, 06:38:03 pm
Quote
It says 600,000 have signed it. How does that top the 17.4 million who voted to leave?.
three million, five hundred and four thousand and 95 signatures.
Wow!
3,504,095
People don't want BREXIT.

I don't see why your surprised?
16,141,241 didn't want it last time they were asked
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 March 2019, 07:10:22 pm
Quote
I don't see why your surprised?
It's not a vote Dude, nor is it a referendum.  It’s a petition.
It will soon be the biggest ever petition in UK history.
It is already the fastest growing petition in UK history.
People want an end to BREXIT.
What was it LEAVE said – we want to take back control.  But here we are – and who is in control – the EU is in control and the EU is setting the agenda.
We have been described by the Europeans as a sick patient, a patient that they are trying to nurse back to health.
Well done VOTE LEAVE
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 March 2019, 07:32:04 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2SMPDTXQAEyx6y.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 March 2019, 08:37:59 pm
Nobody thinks the EU is super great
You do :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 22 March 2019, 09:52:06 pm
Nope.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 March 2019, 12:03:43 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2SnqXzWkAA16PC.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 March 2019, 01:09:10 am
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 March 2019, 08:40:35 am
lol here we go again...the reason (imho) that we are up shit creek is not because we voted for Brexit. its because that vote was betrayed and sabotaged time and time and time again, ultimately inevitably bringing us to where we are now. Im guessing remainers see this as some sort of victory. enjoy..
Reversing the democratic result of the referendum would bring the Remainers joy beyond compare.

They would have been chuffed, understandably, if they'd won the vote in 2016. However they'll be absolutely ecstatic if they can snatch it from Leave. Make no mistake they would be thoroughly ungracious in 'victory'. They'd be rubbing Leaves' noses right in it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 March 2019, 08:51:55 am
three million, five hundred and four thousand and 95 signatures.
Wow!
3,504,095
People don't want BREXIT.
They had to remove a load of the 'signatures' when there was a similar petition for a second EU referendum in 2016.
One person claimed to have voted 33,000 times! :rolleyes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640459 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640459)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 March 2019, 10:47:58 am
Brexit is doomed, I have just heard that Uri Geller has vowed to telepathically stop Brexit in a letter to the PM.  :lol
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 23 March 2019, 01:03:35 pm
They had to remove a load of the 'signatures' when there was a similar petition for a second EU referendum in 2016.

And the Petition Parliament site has now (amazingly) been modified to screen out fake signatures!

It's odd, though, that the Brexiteers keep banging on about "democracy", yet they're happy to try to sabotage a petition like this because it's showing what the PEOPLE want NOW, not a couple of years ago when they were being lied to and promised all sorts of things that, even with May's deal, will not transpire.

BTW are the hundreds of thousands of people turning up in London today also fake? (As opposed to the fewer than 70 on Nigel Farage's march...?)

PS remember the Brexiteers who were threatening to "Bring the country to a standstill" to force Brexit?

Leaver go-slow on roads leads to prosecutions  (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/23/brexit-leaver-go-slow-on-roads-leads-to-prosecutions) :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 March 2019, 01:25:48 pm
BTW are the hundreds of thousands of people turning up in London today also fake?
Yes they're champagne socialists ;)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 23 March 2019, 01:55:09 pm
 :D     




https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=318686752183474&id=1159720410844971 (https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=318686752183474&id=1159720410844971)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 March 2019, 06:00:40 pm
 The Revoke Article 50 petition is now officially the biggest ever petition in the history of the UK – that despite it being only days old.  Over 4.5 million signatures.


We’ve just seen one the of the biggest ever protests in London, perhaps up to or more than a million people demanding a second referendum – and yes because they do not want to leave the EU.


All we have had is a little whimper from those who still support BREXIT.


The truth is people understand they were lied to.  The easiest deal in history has in fact resulted in the EU caring for it’s sick political patient – the UK.  BREXIT has put the EU in charge.


The pound is weak, growth is down, a recession is a strong possibility, and already thousands of people have lost their jobs as a result of BREXIT.  And have you seen the price of an MT10?



It’s clear what the people want – they want an end to BREXIT madness – we want article 50 cancelled now.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 March 2019, 06:11:14 pm
Shame it wasn't pissing down with 70 MPH winds in London today like it was the other week :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 March 2019, 07:18:36 pm
Even if you add the 1 million to the 4.5 million that is still only 5.5million. So presumably the rest of the 10.5million original remain voters do want brexit.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 March 2019, 07:40:35 pm
Keep clutching at straws.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 March 2019, 07:48:37 pm

Keep clutching at straws.


Oh the irony! :groan
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 March 2019, 07:58:47 pm
But you yourself said this.


We’ve just seen one the of the biggest ever protests in London, perhaps up to or more than a million people demanding a second referendum – and yes because they do not want to leave the EU.
All we have had is a little whimper from those who still support BREXIT.
"All we have had is a little whimper from those who still support BREXIT." All I have done is use your method of thinking - by not being there they do not support it according to you.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 23 March 2019, 08:20:19 pm
Good luck wriggling out of that one VNA :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 March 2019, 08:21:14 pm
Quote
"All we have had is a little whimper from those who still support BREXIT."All I have done is use your method of thinking - by not being there they do not support it according to you.
Lets see what the BREXIT side can muster - so far nowt. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 23 March 2019, 08:50:50 pm
Quote
"All we have had is a little whimper from those who still support BREXIT."All I have done is use your method of thinking - by not being there they do not support it according to you.
Lets see what the BREXIT side can muster - so far nowt. 

Well so far it is 17,410,742, and then you can add the other 10.5 million who did not bother to have a champagne socialist day out in london or cant even be bothered to stay sitting on their arse and click a few buttons.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 March 2019, 09:03:17 pm
Looks like the only people sitting on their arses are you Leavers  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 23 March 2019, 09:06:08 pm
 
Quote
Good luck wriggling out of that one VNA :lol

You know 107 pages in and neither you nor Fazersharp can tell us why you want BREXIT, never mind what sort of BREXIT you want.


I think that’s the same right across the country.  Only a lot of people are beginning to realise this, they are beginning to understand that BREXIT is a con.  A lot of people who voted BREXIT I am sure will have signed that petition, many will also have been out protesting against BREXIT today.


You try to blame MP’s across the house for not delivering BREXIT, when the truth is the very people – the comically titled European Research Group – who at the end of the day delivered the referendum to you – yes those lying bastards the ERG – are the very ones who have made sure BREXIT cannot be delivered. 



The Tory party is voting against itself.


The government is voting against itself.


The ERG is voting down BREXIT.


People can see this – they have had enougth.
Here’s a handy link for you;
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584 (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 23 March 2019, 09:07:42 pm
Quote
Shame it wasn't pissing down with 70 MPH winds in London today like it was the other week

No it was a lovely day out thank you. But then the sun always shines on the righteous
:)

I do hope you are all going to join Mr Toad's march at some point? Rather than just sit there being keyboard warriors. He needs the numbers up a bit  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 24 March 2019, 12:19:04 am
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=318686752183474&id=1159720410844971 (https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=318686752183474&id=1159720410844971)

Odd that it's the Leave supporters who are claiming that there will be "Riots in the Streets" if we don't get Brexit...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 24 March 2019, 10:23:02 am

But then the sun always shines on the righteous :)



So what went wrong on 23rd June 2016? :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Fazerider on 24 March 2019, 01:46:25 pm

But then the sun always shines on the righteous :)


So what went wrong on 23rd June 2016? :lol
It wasn't sunny enough. :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 March 2019, 01:58:28 pm
Quote
So what went wrong on 23rd June 2016?

Yes I remember now. It was very foggy, and you all put your cross in the wrong place  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 March 2019, 02:35:36 pm
 They are talking about well over one million people on the streets yesterday protesting against BREXIT.
Further the petition has now passed 5 million signatures and it’s still climbing.
The people don’t want BREXIT.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 March 2019, 02:51:35 pm
 You know the big question here is will the UK learn.


There are serious issues concerning our democracy that need addressed.


We need to consider what we can do to stop political campaigns based on pure lies.  The leave campaign, even after it’s number one campaign claim was demonstrated beyond a shadow of doubt not to be true – continued to push the 350 million pound a week lie. 



There has to be some form of accountability in campaigning.


Further there is our parliament itself.  Theresa May has not understood the basics of minority government. 



We have a parliament in the UK designed to produce a majority government every five years.  But for almost ten years it has failed to do so. 



Our parliamentarians seem unable to work across party lines.  This is something that comes almost naturally right across Europe and indeed here in Scotland. 



It’s quite something to see 27 countries, with all their differing culture and languages repeatedly uniting on these issues, yet one country, the UK, cannot get it’s act together.   So much so that now the 27 are dictating the agenda in the UK.  Nursing the hopless  patient.



It is surely time to move away from majority government – which is effectively a 5 year dictatorship, not only to engage the public in making every vote count, but by forcing our parliamentarians to put the country before party.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 24 March 2019, 05:02:19 pm

there are some very good points there VNA. And ones I agree with totally. Unfortunately, if you get your way, which I think is going to happen, we are moving closer to a dictatorship, not farther away from it.
The most telling thing about the massive petition and the difference in remainers and leavers, is that so many of you are willing to sacrifice democracy to achieve your goal. No matter how you paint it, thats what you will be doing. Im not and never will be. But if remainers get their way, have another referendum, and win, then i'll accept im in a minority in a country that is no longer a democracy and live with it. But you and everybody else responsible for that change should at the very least stop denying the truth of what you are doing.
And please mate, stop telling me I made a decision based on lies I was told...I did not. I made a decision on what I already believed. The leave campaign had no more effect on me than camerons leaflet did.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 March 2019, 05:23:26 pm
Quote
The most telling thing about the massive petition and the difference in remainers and leavers, is that so many of you are willing to sacrifice democracy to achieve your goal.
The thing is Ogri is that it is now almost three years since that referendum.


Every five years we elect a government, and interestingly enough we don’t keep electing the same government.  People change their view every now and again and yes people can change their minds too.


In 2016 we were told that there would be, if we left the EU, and extra 350 million pounds in the UK to spend on the NHS, or schools or whatever we fancied.


That was a lie.  We were also told that it would be easy.  The easiest deal in history.  That the EU would bend over backwards to give us everything we wanted.


Those were lies too.  I could go on.


And as it turns out the very people who brought us BREXIT, now keep voting it down in the parliament.  The very same people who told us, oh no, we won’t be leaving the single market or the customs union now tells us it must be a NO DEAL exit, and are once again are holding the country to randsom.


The truth is when we voted back in 2016, not only were we lied to, but nobody told us what BREXIT would be, and indeed we were miss-lead into believing we would still have full single market access.  That is possible, but it’s not on offer.


Nobody mentioned Ireland and the fact that we are fully committed by the legally binding Good Friday agreement to maintaining an open border between north and south.  There is no solution that would allow us to leave the customs union and keep that border open.  There would have to be physical customs checks.


Today the deal is May’s deal.  May’s deal decides nothing, it just kicks the can down the road.  It allows us single market access, at a price, and leaves us to negotiate our way out of the EU over the next two years.  The truth is it will leave this country paralysed negotiating BREXIT for a decade or more.


We now have a full constitutional crisis, and ironically the EU is now in charge setting the agenda.


We’ve just had the biggest petition in UK history and possibly the biggest ever demonstration in London.  Why?  Because people want an end to this.


We now know what the deal is.  We can all see the deal and what it means.  So it’s time to put it back to the people.  There is nothing undemocratic whatsoever in doing so.  So what is that you are sacred of?  And the question, has to be;


May’s Deal
Or
Cancel article 50.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 24 March 2019, 05:42:23 pm
im not scared of anything mate in truth. too old for that. im not even disappointed, or angry. If thats how the country is now, then so be it. I dont think a democratically voted decision has a time limit, it is what it is. but thats just me I guess. its a brave new world..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 March 2019, 06:10:14 pm
 
Quote
im not scared of anything mate in truth. too old for that. im not even disappointed, or angry. If thats how the country is now, then so be it. I dont think a democratically voted decision has a time limit, it is what it is. but thats just me I guess. its a brave new world..

Problem is we have to find a way forward.  How do we do it?  No Deal, I hope most of us can agree needs to be avoided.
At the moment the EU will allow a short extension if parliament votes May’s deal through.
If that fails, and I think it will, they will only allow a further larger extension if there is a major change.  They have suggested a general election or a second referendum.
That’s just roughly how things sit right now.
The other options is cross party co-operation in order to come up with a solution.
There ae not a lot of options however.  One though, is to put in place a Norway type deal.  It’s almost a cut and paste sign here job.  It allows us to leave the EU politically but gives us continuing single market access.
That’s how I see it right now.
How do we move forward Ogri?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 24 March 2019, 06:26:57 pm
I aint got a clue mate. Thats why I lay bricks for a living ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 March 2019, 06:31:15 pm
I thought you were a bourgeois intellectual university student for focs sake.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 24 March 2019, 06:32:40 pm
yeah that fucker too...or at least one out of the three.. :lol ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 March 2019, 07:26:43 pm
Hows aboot anither wee giggle then.............. :lol


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2cmAjyW0AI_u0V.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 March 2019, 07:53:55 pm
Here's my question. If Brexiteers are so anxious about the outcome,
Where's the online petition to see Brexit through and get a No Deal outcome?
When is the million + march to campaign for no second referendum?
Or are they just lazy foccers?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 24 March 2019, 08:21:31 pm


There are serious issues concerning our democracy that need addressed.



.....what everyone else refers to as the other side winning fair and square ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 24 March 2019, 08:57:43 pm
This Million marchers figure. The bbc have been quoting "the organisers say its over a million ". Now whenever there is a march or a strike the bbc will quote the the organisers figure and always  add the line "put the police but the figure at ----??.

But I have noticed that the bbc do not do that here - they just keep repeating the organisers figure without question.Then on top of that they do not report on the progress of Farages march, if that was the other way around they would have a reporter doing the march with them and giving daily updates.
Anyone know where they are today --------NO. 
The bbc are not coming out of this whole thing with any integrity
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 24 March 2019, 09:22:17 pm
 
Quote
.....what everyone else refers to as the other side winning fair and square ;)

No I think what you are not getting is that our democracy is broken.  Not broken because it has not – yet - delivered BREXIT, but because BREXIT has broken it.


It’s also abundantly clear that our politicians can not operate outside of the usual combative first past the post majority UK parliament norm.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 March 2019, 10:18:43 pm
Quote
This Million marchers figure. The bbc have been quoting "the organisers say its over a million ". Now whenever there is a march or a strike the bbc will quote the the organisers figure and always  add the line "put the police but the figure at ----??.
That's it, try and discredit. I was there. The million figure was an underestimate.


What there was yesterday was lots of young people and families. Not a grumpy old man in sight.
No fights, no arrests and nobody felt the need to send a death threat to anybody....

Tell me, how many at the Leave Means Leave march?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 24 March 2019, 11:39:48 pm
Quote
.Then on top of that they do not report on the progress of Farages march,
Well to be fair, they do report when the Twat In A Hat occasionally turns up for a photo opportunity to rally his hundred or so marchers. But to be honest, it's hardly worth their while, is it  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 March 2019, 06:14:32 am

That's it, try and discredit.


That's rich, coming from someone that's done nothing but try to discredit the legitimate Leave referendum result :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 March 2019, 09:13:01 am


Some Brexit statistics...


In the 2016 referendum Leave won by 17.4 million against Remain's 16.1 million.


It was the biggest vote in British history for anything.


Leave constituencies outnumbered Remain by 406 to 242.


Of these, Tory Leavers outnumbered Remainers by 247 to 80 and Labour's by 148 to 84.


However....In Parliament 160 MPs support Leave, whilst 486 back Remain.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 09:32:31 am
Another statistic:


3 years ago. People have changed their minds.


Another referendum. What are you afraid of?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 25 March 2019, 09:35:16 am
take note remoaners.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 March 2019, 09:37:06 am


Another referendum. What are you afraid of?  :lol


That if you lose that one you'll demand a third....and a fourth............
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 09:43:56 am
But we won't lose, will we  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 March 2019, 10:10:46 am

But we won't lose, will we  :lol


Leave voter apathy would probably see Remain across the line in another referendum.


A significant proportion will say 'Well they've dismissed our vote once, why should we bother again?. Who's to say they won't ignore that one too?'.


The Remainers keep saying that they'll respect the result of a second referendum, but they said that about the first. They aren't to be trusted I'm afraid.







Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 10:25:52 am
At the moment, the people not to be trusted..... are Tory politicians.


The latest is all about keeping the Tory party together and sticking knives into each other to be leader.


The ERG, Boris and half the Cabinet should just clear off to UKIP and let the others get on with it.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 March 2019, 11:34:55 am
Another statistic:
3 years ago. People have changed their minds.
It is not a statistic - it is a remainer unicorn.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 25 March 2019, 12:16:19 pm
take note remoaners.

And now the facts...

Quote
The discrepancy is partly due to how the NHS recoups the money it is owed, but also partly because the costs of treating UK citizens abroad are high in comparison to the costs of treating European citizens in the UK.

The amounts involved are relatively small compared to the overall NHS budget, so the claim that changing this “in itself would transform the financial situation of the NHS” is exaggerated.

Health charities have said that the NHS in England needs an extra £4 billion just to stop services getting worse. Even if the UK Government recouped all of the money it is entitled to, this would represent a funding increase of just 7% of this amount.

[...]

To put this figure into some context, the total budget of the NHS in England in 2018-19 is £126 billion.



The figures are broadly correct, although addressing this situation would in itself only have a marginal impact on the financial situation of the NHS. (https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 March 2019, 12:21:44 pm
I really am interested in finding out the best true estimate of how may people attended the london anti brexit demo.
All the MSM seem happy to quote the organisers one million figure although I have seen that some run with the headline one million and then in the copy do not repeat it and just instead say hundreds of thousands.Others use "" and say "one million" 

In the October london rally the orginisers said 700,000 but later a debriefing document prepared by the Greater London Authority put the number of attendees at October's People’s Vote rally at 250,000

I can not find an official numbers estimate from an intendant body, I find this really odd as there is always a police estimate issued. The best I can find is this.   
Manchester Metropolitan University’s Keith Still, a world leader in crowd science who has developed mandatory event-monitoring training for police. Said “Based on the visuals from the helicopter image, it’s between 312,000 and 400,000 people,”


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 March 2019, 12:24:37 pm
take note remoaners.

And now the facts...

Quote
The discrepancy is partly due to how the NHS recoups the money it is owed, but also partly because the costs of treating UK citizens abroad are high in comparison to the costs of treating European citizens in the UK.

The amounts involved are relatively small compared to the overall NHS budget, so the claim that changing this “in itself would transform the financial situation of the NHS” is exaggerated.

Health charities have said that the NHS in England needs an extra £4 billion just to stop services getting worse. Even if the UK Government recouped all of the money it is entitled to, this would represent a funding increase of just 7% of this amount.

[...]

To put this figure into some context, the total budget of the NHS in England in 2018-19 is £126 billion.
The figures are broadly correct, although addressing this situation would in itself only have a marginal impact on the financial situation of the NHS. (https://fullfact.org/health/how-much-does-uk-recover-health-costs-eu/)
In the words of Tesco "Every Little Helps"
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 March 2019, 01:42:59 pm


What there was yesterday was lots of young people and families. Not a grumpy old man in sight.


Yes but when it comes to polling day all the 'grumpy old men' (and grumpy old women let's not forget ;) ) turn out come rain or shine.


It was your 'youth vote' that let you down by not bothering to vote in 2016 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 02:08:23 pm
Quote
I can not find an official numbers estimate from an intendant body, I find this really odd as there is always a police estimate issued. The best I can find is this.    Manchester Metropolitan University’s Keith Still, a world leader in crowd science who has developed mandatory event-monitoring training for police. Said “Based on the visuals from the helicopter image, it’s between 312,000 and 400,000 people,”
Well of course there's not an 'official estimate' we didn't go through bloody turnstiles.
And one person's estimate from looking at a helicopter image? Be serious :lol
I was there. I was at the previous anti Brexit march, and I was at the Stop The War march. This one was far bigger than those.
No you're not  'interested in trying to find a true estimate '. You're just trying to discredit. Perhaps you should have come along and counted them yourself ;)
Anyway, I'll ask again, how many at Fartage's march?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 02:18:16 pm
Quote
Yes but when it comes to polling day all the 'grumpy old men' (and grumpy old women let's not forget ) turn out come rain or shine.

Yes but a large proportion of them have died since 2016, and have been replaced by nice optimistic 18 year olds  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 March 2019, 02:53:52 pm
And one person's estimate from looking at a helicopter image? Be serious :lol
I thought you remainers liked the expert's.
Quote
No you're not  'interested in trying to find a true estimate '. You're just trying to discredit. 
You can have your 1m if you like - I am not trying to discredit it at all. I am just seeing some odd reporting of the numbers.

Quote
Anyway, I'll ask again, how many at Fartage's march?
There again I have been googling to try and find out but the results are being swamped with anti brexit stuff mainly about London. I think there are a core set of marchers between 70-150 doing the whole thing.Its one thing for the champagne socialist to go and have a short stroll in London - maybe take in a theatre whilst there or that little Rupert and Poppy to the park, and a totally different thing to commit to walking 270 miles in 14 days.Sums up the difference between remain who are just looking at short term gains and rewards and the leavers who are looking wider at the long term.   
     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 03:58:05 pm
Better a champagne socialist than Farage's Brexit Gammon  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 March 2019, 05:03:30 pm

I was there.
So you keep reminding us :z
Just in case anyone hasn't got the message yet....
mtread was at the champagne socialists, overturn democracy march on saturday :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 March 2019, 05:08:38 pm
No you're not  'interested in trying to find a true estimate '. You're just trying to discredit.
And you're not interested in democracy if it doesn't result in the outcome you wanted.
You just try to discredit the legitimate result and want us to keep voting again and again until you get the answer you want.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 05:31:00 pm
Democracy isn't just a one off event.
You don't want a second referendum because you know you would lose.... heavily :lol


OK hands up who's going to Farage's Leave Means Leave march.... come on now don't be shy..... Thought not. No conviction.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 March 2019, 06:41:31 pm

Democracy isn't just a one off event.


OK then, best of three if Remain were to win a second vote?.


No thought not :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 07:28:34 pm
No, the next one is final, of course :)


No idea what the question would be, mind you
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 07:35:01 pm
Seriously though.... what is May's plan? She isn't putting through her plan for a 3rd because she knows it will fail again, and she won't follow Parliament's indicative votes. Without arguing.... what's going on? She's only got until the 12th. It's clear the EU won't move. Is she waiting for someone else to blink again?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 March 2019, 07:56:17 pm
I think the EU wouldn't mind a no deal - neither would May but none of them wants to be the one that has brought it about.May asked for an extension because she did not want to be the one that brought about a no deal. So the EU naturally granted the extension so that they are not the one seen to bring about a no deal, brexit tennis.The people want a no deal. -- See its easy to say, just like when remainers say "the people want a new referendum" .       
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 March 2019, 08:09:35 pm
Listen to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MGf0p7gNYg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MGf0p7gNYg)
Now listen to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYxjumUhji0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYxjumUhji0)
Is it just me or do they sound the same :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 March 2019, 08:27:08 pm
 
Quote
mtread was at the champagne socialists, overturn democracy march on saturday :lol


Well done that man.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 March 2019, 08:34:29 pm
 
Quote
That if you lose that one you'll demand a third....and a fourth............

I do wonder if you are really understanding this YamFazFan.
 
The argument for, and the reason why, the government may have to return this issue to the people is that parliament is stuck.  MP’s are not prepared to vote for what they see is a shit deal.  MP’s are not prepared to allow a NO DEAL BREXIT as it would be devastating for our economy.
 
Therefore, unless they find a way to move forwards (Norway?) they will have to put the question to the people.  This is not a second referendum on the EU, it is a referendum on the deal.  Do you want it or not...... The question will be;
 
May’s Deal.
or

Cancel Article 50


It will be legally binding.  There will be no further referendum.


 
Get it?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 08:37:23 pm
Quote
brexit tennis.
Can't be that. People move around in tennis.
What's a game where everybody stays perfectly still for months on end and doesn't blink? Brexit Statues.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 March 2019, 08:44:16 pm

Quote
That if you lose that one you'll demand a third....and a fourth............

I do wonder if you are really understanding this YamFazFan.
 
The argument for, and the reason why, the government may have to return this issue to the people is that parliament is stuck.  MP’s are not prepared to vote for what they see is a shit deal.  MP’s are not prepared to allow a NO DEAL BREXIT as it would be devastating for our economy.
 
Therefore, unless they find a way to move forwards (Norway?) they will have to put the question to the people.  This is not a second referendum on the EU, it is a referendum on the deal.  Do you want it or not...... The question will be;
 
May’s Deal.
or

Cancel Article 50


It will be legally binding.  There will be no further referendum.


 
Get it?


That's not why the Remainers are demanding it though. They keep telling us that 'the people have changed their mind' and want another vote. They were saying that months ago.


You keep telling us that the people have changed their mind.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 March 2019, 08:54:50 pm
Chicken?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2c8V5_W0AAcP8K.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 March 2019, 09:03:11 pm

Quote
That if you lose that one you'll demand a third....and a fourth............

I do wonder if you are really understanding this YamFazFan.
 
The argument for, and the reason why, the government may have to return this issue to the people is that parliament is stuck.  MP’s are not prepared to vote for what they see is a shit deal.  MP’s are not prepared to allow a NO DEAL BREXIT as it would be devastating for our economy.
 
Therefore, unless they find a way to move forwards (Norway?) they will have to put the question to the people.  This is not a second referendum on the EU, it is a referendum on the deal.  Do you want it or not...... The question will be;
 
May’s Deal.
or

Cancel Article 50
It will be legally binding.  There will be no further referendum.
Get it?
That's not why the Remainers are demanding it though. They keep telling us that 'the people have changed their mind' and want another vote. They were saying that months ago.
you keep telling us that the people have changed their mind.
Where is the evidence for this remainers Unicorn "the people have changed their mind/want another vote" .
Is it the 5million votes on the gov site or is it the 350,000 that the experts say did the London march  short stroll   Even if you add them both up (which is being generous as the strollers will of also added to the petition ) that is still only 6 million at best which still leaves the other 10 million who voted to remain -- perhaps it its those missing 10 million that have changed their mind and want another vote to LEAVE.Especially after it has become clear to them that their unicorn of remaining and reforming will NEVER work.Is there any remainer that says the EU is perfect. ---------- NO     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 25 March 2019, 09:18:54 pm
Did anyone see the channel 4 news debate where they tried to show how the young people want to remain so they assembled a group of 18 to 20 year olds to give their usual biased account and it massively backfired on them.
I think this is the one.


https://www.channel4.com/news/brexit-debate-what-young-people-really-think (https://www.channel4.com/news/brexit-debate-what-young-people-really-think)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 March 2019, 09:51:57 pm
Did anyone see the channel 4 news debate where they tried to show how the young people want to remain so they assembled a group of 18 to 20 year olds to give their usual biased account and it massively backfired on them.
I think this is the one.


https://www.channel4.com/news/brexit-debate-what-young-people-really-think (https://www.channel4.com/news/brexit-debate-what-young-people-really-think)
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin Channel 4 really did not do their normal "research" did they. I can almost hear Jon Snows neck creak as he looks over his shoulder at his careerer with Channel 4 or the creak of Channel 4 bosses necks  as they place their heads in their hands.
Its a remainer unicorn that the now - eligible to vote 18 year old's are going to save them. They are not as STUPID as you think they are. And after the way the EU actually operate being brought into the spotlight they can see it all for themselves. And as for laughing that all the "old leave voting idiots" have since died SHAME on you as they are your Dads - Grand Dads. But remember that they have been replaced by even more in number  ( as the old keep out numbering the young ) - "old" and wise people. More so than the leftie - brainwashed few young that the remainers are pinning their hopes on.

The young are as not as stupid as you would like to think.       
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 25 March 2019, 10:10:57 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2gGwv3WoAAaDB3.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 10:13:12 pm
Quote
.The people want a no deal. -- See its easy to say, just like when remainers say "the people want a new referendum" .   
Yes and there's 'at least one hundred, possibly one hundred and fifty' marching demanding No Deal. According to some obscure 'expert' in a helicopter. Mind you, it took him 2 hours to find them  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 25 March 2019, 10:18:48 pm
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 25 March 2019, 10:20:54 pm
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 25 March 2019, 10:22:07 pm
 :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 10:23:49 pm
So, Parliament votes 329 to 302 to debate alternative plans for Brexit :)


You are losing, one step at a time  :)


Second referendum on its way  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 25 March 2019, 11:27:09 pm
So, Parliament votes 329 to 302 to debate alternative plans for Brexit :)
you are losing, one step at a time  :)
There is nothing to be glib a about/ The only thing being lost is democracy. Vote leave won and before it is even carried out it is being eroded. backed by  the BBC channel 4 and Sky
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 25 March 2019, 11:40:40 pm
Quote
There is nothing to be glib a about/ The only thing being lost is democracy. Vote leave won and before it is even carried out it is being eroded. backed by  the BBC channel 4 and Sky
I'm very glib, thank you very much. Parliament doing what May should have done 2 and a half years ago, rather than pandering to the right just to try to keep the Tories together. Parliamentary democracy at its best.
O and one other thing, she's lost 3 more ministers who now don't have to vote how they're told  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 March 2019, 12:14:03 am
No Dazza, this is the real petition to Leave without a deal


https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963


A pathetic number of votes  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 26 March 2019, 01:13:05 am
A pathetic number of votes  :lol

About 10% of the Revoke petition...! :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 March 2019, 07:30:53 am


Second referendum on its way  :)


I shouldn't get too excited. They reckon the indicative votes will be inconclusive and result in more stalemate.


They're not legally binding anyway :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 March 2019, 07:33:06 am

A pathetic number of votes  :lol

About 10% of the Revoke petition...! :D


Fortunately governments don't take a blind bit of notice of petitions :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 March 2019, 09:54:15 am
.... and Parliament doesn't take a blind bit of notice of narrowly won referendums with undefined outcomes :)


Anyway, if no option gets a majority and Parliament still can't decide..... they'll have to go back to the people  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 March 2019, 10:17:45 am

They reckon between 312,000 and 400,000 attended the march in London on Saturday.


1 million! :lol . More Remain lies :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 March 2019, 10:20:24 am
'They' weren't there :)


O hang on a minute, I've now worked it out. 'They' are you and Fazersharp :lol


Here's a nice video for you to watch
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47678763?ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=facebook&ocid=socialflow_facebook (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47678763?ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=facebook&ocid=socialflow_facebook)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 March 2019, 10:53:56 am

Not interested in your links ta :)


I suppose you did a head count at the march? :lol


I've got visions of Lance Corporal Jones trying to count the farm turkeys in the "Turkey Dinner" episode :lol


256,677...256,678...256....oh hang on no I'll start again.1, 2, 3... :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 26 March 2019, 11:09:01 am
.


 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 26 March 2019, 11:13:21 am
Nah it was Diane Abbott who was doing the counting  :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 March 2019, 11:32:13 am
Easier counting Nigel's parade. Wouldn't even run out of fingers :lol


Anyway back to the main story, how's No Deal Brexit going? Feeling confident?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 26 March 2019, 12:49:58 pm

They reckon between 312,000 and 400,000 attended the march in London on Saturday.

1 million! :lol . More Remain lies :)

Ah, yes, the desperate attempt to move the narrative from a massive turn out (versus the tiny number on Nigel's March) to "Remain lies".

What those claims *don't* say is that the estimate of "400,000" was a *snapshot* based on the number of people who could be seen in the helicopter fly-over. It doesn't include the people who were in side streets or taking short cuts or who joined later or left early.

Or, to put it in scientific terms: Flow = Volume * Time, ie measuring the number of people who pass a certain point over the duration of the march.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 March 2019, 01:22:16 pm

Yes we popped into two side street pubs during the march, which were packed. Then rejoined the march further down.

.. and anyway, it doesn't matter what they think, because the nasty mainstream media has said it was 'over a million', and that's what the majority of the public will believe  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 March 2019, 02:04:02 pm

Who cares if it was 1 million, 2 million, 10 million or 1 man & his dog :rolleyes


This thread has become incredibly boring. Just the same old bickering over and over the same old themes.


Wake me up when it's all over :z


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 March 2019, 03:16:17 pm
That could be some time.... :rolleyes


In fact the DUP are now saying that they don't mind if the date is delayed by a year.....


So Sleeping Beauty  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 26 March 2019, 07:21:32 pm
Who cares if it was 1 million, 2 million, 10 million or 1 man & his dog :rolleyes

Well you did in « Reply #2731 on: Today at 10:17:45 AM » and you declared it to be "More Remain lies".

Hmm...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 March 2019, 07:32:58 pm

Who cares if it was 1 million, 2 million, 10 million or 1 man & his dog :rolleyes

Well you did in « Reply #2731 on: Today at 10:17:45 AM » and you declared it to be "More Remain lies".

Hmm...


OK then, there was only a third of the number they claim was there. More project fear from Remain.


Here we go again :z
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 26 March 2019, 09:37:46 pm
Who cares if it was 1 million, 2 million, 10 million or 1 man & his dog :rolleyes

OK then, there was only a third of the number they claim was there. More project fear from Remain.

So you *do* care, then...? :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 26 March 2019, 11:24:03 pm
Quote
Here we go again

You're asleep. It's just a bad dream  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 09:45:16 am
Another doozy from the EU EU plans speed-limiting technology for new cars from 2022 
        All new cars could be fitted with special devices from 2022 to automatically make them keep to the speed limit after new EU rules were provisionally agreed.
cars will also be fitted with compulsory data recorders "black boxes". So if you have an accident, the police and your insurance company will know whether you've been keeping your foot down and routinely ignoring the car's warnings.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: robbo on 27 March 2019, 10:51:42 am
I thought modern cars already had this technolgy. Recently saw a program which involved a crash in Ontario, and the cops just plugged in their laptop and knew the speed of the vehicle on impact and whether it was braking or not. Mentioned it to a pal who is a Volvo service manager, and apparently Volvo's have this facility.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 11:06:09 am
I thought modern cars already had this technolgy. Recently saw a program which involved a crash in Ontario, and the cops just plugged in their laptop and knew the speed of the vehicle on impact and whether it was braking or not. Mentioned it to a pal who is a Volvo service manager, and apparently Volvo's have this facility.
Yes Ford, Mercedes-Benz, Peugeot-Citroen, Renault and Volvo already have models available with some of the technology fitted.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 11:31:55 am
.... and the UK government has decided to adopt it, even though it might not be in the EU.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 11:44:11 am
.... and the UK government has decided to adopt it, even though it might not be in the EU.
Yes and you have just debunked your own argument about all the remain scare mongering about the environment, crime detection, workers rights, food safety. As with the cars here ,after brexit the UK simply can agree / decide to adopt them.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 12:24:37 pm
And you've just debunked your argument that everything's the fault of the EU  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 12:28:00 pm
And you've just debunked your argument that everything's the fault of the EU  :)
Nice try - I have never said that - neither have brexiters. Its just another tool in the remain book of throwbacks. I think that particular one go's between racist and didn't know what they were voting for. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 27 March 2019, 01:08:14 pm
This is golden.
Remainers being herded by a bit of music, sporting unwashed dreads and letting off smoke grenades.
Like a scene from the pied piper......Bah.....bah......bah
Yes, I can really see its full of families mtread, more like the pill popping junkies you get at Glastonbury. :rollin :rollin
Credibility gone to shit right there. :rolleyes




https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=770879656632285&id=546852225441704 (https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=770879656632285&id=546852225441704)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 01:14:53 pm
Not me  :rolleyes


What you fail to acknowledge is that we will have to follow the majority of the EU's rules anyway, for commercial or logistical reasons. Without having a say in their make up. We become a slave to the EU rather than a participant :pokefun
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 27 March 2019, 01:15:54 pm
Another little nugget from your terrorist loving traitor friend.




https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=288506815175612&id=129617873765147 (https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=288506815175612&id=129617873765147)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 01:19:36 pm
Quote
Yes, I can really see its full of families mtread, more like the pill popping junkies you get at Glastonbury.
You should have been there Dazza  ;)
Unlike of course the Leave march, which has got Gazza and 'Psycho' who have only just been released. The reason the march is so small is that the rest are at home issuing death threats from the comfort of their sofas.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 01:22:30 pm
Sorry Dazza. Don't follow your links. They're all bollocks. If you want to say something, say it here  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 27 March 2019, 02:07:47 pm
Ok then  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: robbo on 27 March 2019, 02:13:39 pm
Ok then  :D
I'll scream and scream and scream, until I'm sick.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 02:20:33 pm
Latest polls 62% Remain 38% Leave. Bring it on  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 March 2019, 02:24:19 pm
Another doozy from the EU EU plans speed-limiting technology for new cars from 2022 
        All new cars could be fitted with special devices from 2022 to automatically make them keep to the speed limit after new EU rules were provisionally agreed.
cars will also be fitted with compulsory data recorders "black boxes". So if you have an accident, the police and your insurance company will know whether you've been keeping your foot down and routinely ignoring the car's warnings.


Can you imagine the size of the queues at the dealers in December 2021 for 'The last of the fast-uns' :lol .


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 03:34:05 pm
Indeed. The day might come when they take down all the unnecessary speed cameras  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 04:08:37 pm
Indeed. The day might come when they take down all the unnecessary speed cameras  :)
That's right they will not be necessary because through the gps system that controls it, the fine will be instantly taken from your bank account.
Not only that - it will mean that you can be watched and tracked wherever you go. If you were told the full extent of the scope of these technologies and the gov control behind them you would never accept them but because you are fed them slowly you accept them.

The EUs own report describes it as "an in-vehicle system that supports drivers' compliance with the speed limit"

Also the EU say in their report
"How acceptable is ISA? Around a quarter of the European drivers are of the opinion that it is 'very useful' to have a device in the car that restrains you from exceeding the speed limits. The practical experiments in both Sweden and the Netherlands have shown that the acceptance of ISA increases if concrete experience with it has been gained."
 
 So 75% of the drivers in the survey said they did not think it useful. But the EU wants it and so without YOU being asked they go ahead and do it anyway and their research shows that once it has been forced on you then you begin to accept it.

This is how the EU operate and it is a remainer Unicorn to keep saying that out of the EU we will have no say --- we have no say now. We are in the EU - were you asked.

 What will follow is the mandatory retro fitting to all vehicles and the owners will have to pay the cost.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 04:23:30 pm
Sorry Dazza. Don't follow your links. They're all bollocks. If you want to say something, say it here  :)
Don't worry I have clicked the link so you don't have to and here are a few screen shots for you. I really feel relived that our future may be in the hands of this lot.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 04:26:16 pm
I agree it's a terrible idea, and our (current) government has decided they are going to do it as well anyway.


I'm fearful of the whole idea of autonomous cars or even large scale 'driver assist', of which this is the worst example. I don't want somebody's software deciding whether I survive.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Dudeofrude on 27 March 2019, 04:28:40 pm
On the plus side it won't apply to motorbikes (yet anyway), only cars, Van's, buses and lorries
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 04:35:15 pm
Quote
. I really feel relived that our future may be in the hands of this lot.
But it isn't.
Here's a couple of pictures giving a better idea of the day. You may spot a couple of your mates  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 04:36:50 pm
I agree it's a terrible idea, and our (current) government has decided they are going to do it as well anyway.
I'm fearful of the whole idea of autonomous cars or even large scale 'driver assist', of which this is the worst example. I don't want somebody's software deciding whether I survive.
Finally an admittance that the EU dictators dish out some stupid bad ideas. And our gov HAVE to adopt it because we were and still are in the EU. At least out of the EU we can actually blame and change our own government.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 04:45:36 pm
Here's a couple of pictures giving a better idea of the day. You may spot a couple of your mates  :lol
Yes I recognise one of them
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 04:47:33 pm
Well it doesn't come in until 2022, so how come 'we have to adopt it'? Get your facts straight.


Unless we're still in the EU by then of course  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 04:49:51 pm
Here's the start of Nigel's march in Sunderland. Looks like it's going well. No idea how that EU flag got in the picture  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 04:52:23 pm
Quote
Yes I recognise one of them
That would be difficult. He's dead.  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 05:17:38 pm
Sorry I was mistaken but I think I recognise someone else
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 05:28:17 pm
What's that you say Frank.
 "The EU --- I thinks it faulty"
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 05:31:24 pm
And I think that woman is getting confused with this
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 05:35:07 pm
Great stuff, but I still think the picture of a grumpy Nigel being twatted with an EU flag is better
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 March 2019, 05:38:32 pm
 
Quote
I agree it's a terrible idea, and our (current) government has decided they are going to do it as well anyway.
No, I don’t much fancy it either, but our government is already looking at adopting it.


On the other hand, 1793 people died on our roads in 2017.  There were 170,993 casualties. 



It’s one thing blasting about on your bike, but hopefully doing so with your eyes pealed and with consideration to others.  But I am sure everyday you, like me, see people driving without any regard whatsoever for others. 



So there is some inevitability that tighter controls, which are enabled by modern technology, will be introduced.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 March 2019, 05:42:11 pm
 Oh the petitions,


Revoke article 50 is now 5,881,298 and still rising as I type this.
The we want NO DEAL petition is 581,777
 
With a petition approaching 6 million and some one million people taking to the streets of London last weekend.  Well it is clear people want their say.  And there is no thirst whatsoever in the country for NO DEAL.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 March 2019, 05:46:55 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2qYqGsXgAARRJE.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 05:51:20 pm
Oh the petitions,


Revoke article 50 is now 5,881,298 and still rising as I type this.
The we want NO DEAL petition is 581,777
 
With a petition approaching 6 million and some one million people taking to the streets of London last weekend.  Well it is clear people want their say.  And there is no thirst whatsoever in the country for NO DEAL.
 
Tusk had the audacity to stand up in the EU parliment as say "You can not betray the 6 million who marched and signed the petition to revoke article 50"  :eek :eek
The shear brass neck and arrogance of the man. (betray 6 million BETRAY !!! ) what about the 17 million Tusk  :rolleyes   

Are you remainers really happy to live under these kind of people --- really

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 06:02:17 pm
Latest news. May offers to resign if they back her deal. Tories again putting their party before country.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 March 2019, 06:10:50 pm
It's all about the Tories.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grayo on 27 March 2019, 06:16:01 pm
Tories again putting their party before country.
But all parties do that. As I've said before, all Politicians are thieves and liars. All Politicians are in it for their own personal gain. There is not one Party or Politician who really gives a flying fuck about the hard working man on the street as long as they are doing very nicely out of it. The usual case of "Fuck you Jack, I'm alright."
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 27 March 2019, 06:21:01 pm
Tories again putting their party before country.
But all parties do that. As I've said before, all Politicians are thieves and liars. All Politicians are in it for their own personal gain. There is not one Party or Politician who really gives a flying fuck about the hard working man on the street as long as they are doing very nicely out of it. The usual case of "Fuck you Jack, I'm alright."
:agree Yes - so why on earth would someone want and extra layer of politicians within the EU 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 27 March 2019, 06:38:30 pm
Latest news. May offers to resign if they back her deal. Tories again putting their party before country.

Thats so she can say afterwards that it was nothing to do with her.

I read it that she was off if ANY further negotiations were needed so actually, not off it they accepted her deal.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 27 March 2019, 07:34:53 pm
Quote
Yes - so why on earth would someone want and extra layer of politicians within the EU
Because they're a foc site better than the crap we currently have in the UK  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 March 2019, 07:38:34 pm
 
Quote
But all parties do that. As I've said before, all Politicians are thieves and liars. All Politicians are in it for their own personal gain. There is not one Party or Politician who really gives a flying fuck about the hard working man on the street as long as they are doing very nicely out of it. The usual case of "Fuck you Jack, I'm alright."
No, I can’t agree with that.


In recent times I believe the Lib Dems put country before party when they joined in coalition with the Conservatives.  I also believe that was a huge mistake for them and subsequently they have paid a price.


I am even prepared to accept that there are some, a few, misguided souls in the Tory party who actually care about the country and it’s people.
But on the whole the Tories exist to rule, and do whatever they can to rule, and rule to look after their own interests.  And yes they will put party first, they will always put themselves before anything else.


But most MP’s try to do their job, some of them well, some of them not so well.


And it goes without saying – well we elect them.



Obviously as a Scot it’s extremely frustrating to have a Tory government – there are few Tories in Scotland – and also to be suffering a BREXIT we never as a country voted for. 



But yeah when it comes to elections, if anybody asks me how to vote, I’ll tell them choose the best candidate, and don’t whatever you do vote Tory.  Never ever vote Tory.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 March 2019, 07:41:45 pm
Quote
Because they're a foc site better than the crap we currently have in the UK  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/smile.gif[/url])

27 countries that can reach agreement.
27 countries that are now trying to help us - though ironically, considering it is BREXIT, by setting the agenda in our parliament.
You couldn't make this up. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 March 2019, 09:57:11 pm
People's vote defeated, but the smallest defeat of all options.
The Troies want to bring back May's deal.  But that had the biggest defeat in pariamentary history.  The ERG looks like it might now back it and bring others with them.  The DUP will not support it.   However the deal cannot, or should not be brought back for a third vote unchanged.
So the way forward - tonight looks like this.
2nd referednum - and the question is clearly;
May's Deal
or
Ditch BREXIT
 :) :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 March 2019, 10:08:03 pm
So what happens on Monday?. Do they have another go at this?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 March 2019, 10:16:17 pm
 Not sure YamFazFan.
I think yes, they have another go at it.  But they need to ditch No Deal and Malt house.  Those were most heavily defeated.  So, and I’m guessing, it’s a process of elimination.
As for May’s deal.  I fear it could be brought back as these are exceptional circumstances.  But I hope that Bercow will stand firm.
Also, those who don’t want May’s deal, can now see other options that could get across the line.  So, if it does come back from the dead, they can see a way forward if they bury it for a third and final time.
What we can still be sure of, with a great degree of certainty, is that nobody really knows what will happen next.
Ah well, time to sit doon wi a dram, and see if Newsnight can enlighten me a wee bit.
At least there is some sort of very basic progress.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 March 2019, 10:23:09 pm
A lot of Troies are going to come in behind May's deal.  But hopefully not all.
The fact is they have lost control, they are not in government as we know it.They hate this - but they brought it upon themselves.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 March 2019, 11:43:18 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2segSYWsAAbvK5.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 27 March 2019, 11:51:47 pm
So what happens on Monday?. Do they have another go at this?

I think (although I'm not certain) it will be a "Preferential Vote", so instead of just ticking "Aye" or "No" to a proposal, MPs rank them in order of 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc and the lowest one is eliminated.

The votes from those who put it in first place are then redistributed according to their second choice etc until one comes out on top.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 March 2019, 12:58:55 am
The man has no shame.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 March 2019, 01:04:07 am
A spokesperson for number 10 trying to tell Bercow that May's deal has passed his test that it has significantly changed, because :
1. The leaving date has been put back
2. Something might change on the backstop


As we say down sarf 'They're having a larf!'  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 March 2019, 11:03:05 am
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 March 2019, 12:19:54 pm

 So 8 ways to leave the EU and the idiots still can not come up with any ideas that will pass.

There must be more ways than that to leave the EU.

The problem is all inside your head, May said to me
The answer is easy if you take it Farage-ley
Rudd like to help you in your struggle to be free
There must be fifty ways to leave the EU

She said it's really not my Hammond to intrude
Further more I hope my meaning won't be lost or Chris-construed
So I repeat myself, at the risk of being Claude
There must be fifty ways to leave the EU   

Just slip out the back, Jean, make a new plan, Ann
Don't need to be coy, Gove, just listen to Mogg
Hop on the bus, Boris, don't need to discuss Tusk
Just drop off the key, Jeremy, and let us be free

She said it Grieve’s me so to see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do to make you Vote again
I said, I appreciate that, then would you please explain about the fifty ways
She said, why don't we both just sleep on it tonight.
And I believe, in the Corbin you'll begin to see the light
And then she kissed me and I realized she probably was Raab
There must be fifty ways the EU
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 March 2019, 05:36:02 pm
 :guitar :lol All your own work?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 March 2019, 06:09:47 pm
Excellent work. What's the tune?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 March 2019, 06:54:54 pm
Yes all my own work (and Paul Simons) though that you would of noticed 50 ways to leave your lover - here's a reminder
Read my words while listening. 
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABXtWqmArUU#)
There was Dominic Grieve’s  already in the lyrics
She said it Grieve’s me so to see you in such painme so to see you in such pain
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 28 March 2019, 08:20:57 pm
Watch out tomorrow at the leave means leave rally in London as its likely to be infiltrated by antifa/hope not hate who are going to cause trouble and make it look like its the brexiteres. Then watch how it is flashed all over the news when for 2 weeks the news have not said a thing about the 400 mile march. Wouldn't be the first time the BBC have been caught working with these far left wing groups.     
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: robbo on 28 March 2019, 09:06:22 pm
Panorama will be all over it then :lol . I'll let you know how it goes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 March 2019, 09:22:03 pm

Yes all my own work (and Paul Simons) though that you would of noticed 50 ways to leave your lover


Yeah I picked up the tune on the chorus bit. Good stuff :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 28 March 2019, 10:01:44 pm
Watch out tomorrow at the leave means leave rally in London as its likely to be infiltrated by antifa/hope not hate who are going to cause trouble and make it look like its the brexiteres. Then watch how it is flashed all over the news when for 2 weeks the news have not said a thing about the 400 mile march. Wouldn't be the first time the BBC have been caught working with these far left wing groups.   
It's like living under the third Reich. State controlled propaganda machine in full flow and all the leftie brown shirts waiting in the wings to kick off.


This speech in the EU parliament was interesting and refreshing.





https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=63IcW4eo4uM

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 March 2019, 12:34:53 am
Quote
Watch out tomorrow at the leave means leave rally in London
The age old tactic of getting your defence in first  :rolleyes I take it by 'infiltrate' you just mean 'outnumber'. Because Nigel's rally has just been...... pathetic.
So Dazza and Fazersharp, are you going tomorrow? Are you going to fill Park Lane, Piccadilly, Trafalgar Square and Whitehall like we did? If not, why not? Or are you not going to bother?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 March 2019, 12:39:06 am
So Theresa has been trying to sell you a clapped out car, and you've said no twice. She comes back and tries to sell you just the wheels, and the rest of the car will be fine, promise.


She's desperate. May, just give us another referendum and we'll put you out of your misery!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 29 March 2019, 04:08:34 pm
That's a toughie  :lol

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 March 2019, 04:18:08 pm
BBC Newsnight's political editor, Nicholas Watt, says a cabinet minister responded with 'fuck knows' when asked why Theresa May is holding another Brexit vote that she is expected to lose. The minister reportedly went on to say, 'I'm past caring, it's like the living dead in here'
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 March 2019, 05:43:04 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2wQ2tPWoAApYnV.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 March 2019, 05:45:12 pm
 I think we’ve all heard the cry - back me or I’ll go.
But I think this is the first time I’ve heard - back me and I’ll go.
But they didn’t, so will she stay?
This is getting weirder by the day.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 March 2019, 08:07:05 pm
By coincidence today
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 March 2019, 08:35:30 pm
Nigel was on top form with his speech in Westminster today. Brilliant speaker :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: robbo on 29 March 2019, 09:13:10 pm
Nigel was on top form with his speech in Westminster today. Brilliant speaker :)
Very much agree, and he didn't need any notes. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 March 2019, 09:43:33 pm
Quote
Very much agree, and he didn't need any notes. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])

That's because there's no real substance to what he says.  I mean does Trump use notes - it's the same thing - no substance.
And what he is shouting for is not on the table, nor is it even possible.  But that's not a problem for Nigel as he has no responsibility. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 March 2019, 09:45:01 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2xRLABXgAQaZol.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 March 2019, 10:12:48 pm
The organisers claim 'thousands' joined the pro Brexit march. Typical Leave lies. I've seen the photo and I can only count 23  :b
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 March 2019, 10:17:27 pm
O wait a minute, here's a few more. Are those Gillet Jaunes?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 March 2019, 10:28:16 pm
Hmm, thousands.  Not quite a million is it?
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 March 2019, 10:35:57 pm
Not really  :lol And I wonder how many walked all the way from Jarrow? I'm guessing 2.


Apparently the commemorative 50p has been put on hold....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 March 2019, 10:46:50 pm
People's Vote march - a million people - no arrests


Leave Means Leave march - a few thousand - Latest from the Met - As of 21:00hrs five arrests have been made at the demonstrations in Central London today: x2 for assault, x1 drunk & disorderly, x1 for assaulting a police officer & x1 male arrested after being identified as wanted for an offence in Herts. All are in custody.
Just saying..... :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 March 2019, 11:09:27 pm


Apparently the commemorative 50p has been put on hold....


Yay :woot . Us Leavers are all holding out for the commemorative Ten Bob Note.....apparently ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 29 March 2019, 11:57:20 pm
Ten Bob! You'd only go and spend it on a 3 legged racehorse, or something  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 30 March 2019, 12:21:12 am
People's Vote march - a million people - no arrests


Leave Means Leave march - a few thousand - Latest from the Met - As of 21:00hrs five arrests have been made at the demonstrations in Central London today: x2 for assault, x1 drunk & disorderly, x1 for assaulting a police officer & x1 male arrested after being identified as wanted for an offence in Herts. All are in custody.
Just saying..... :rolleyes

And it's statements like that that make you look like an idiot.
The actual headline from the Met for the people's vote march was ....no significant arrests... However, guess what, one of my old school mates was on duty as a Metropolitan police officer on the March and he informed me that his squad alone made 47 arrests.
You keep saying a million, what a load of shit.
Professional military analysts  put the figure between 180000 and 230000...... Yep, that's as close as they can estimate given the location.
I was there today and knew I would be quizzed over numbers so I took my clicker and done a head count as they were herded down Whitehall.


When I got got to 100000 I realised that's all my clicker went up to so then had to keep a record of how many times my clicker zeroed ..... Guess what....... I totally lost count after 1 million. :lol


Anyway, Tommy Robinson was on top form and I got to have a chat with him.
I mentioned this forum and the abuse VNA and mtread constantly gives him and you know what he said ?
He said that he understands that not everyone is enlightened and he totally forgives them for their narrow minded condemnation and understands how their minds have been tainted by the MSM.

You hear that you two.....He forgives you.

He truly is the modern day Messiah...... :D  Just don't call him Brian....He hates that.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 30 March 2019, 02:13:48 am
For sale: One pair of walking boots. Hardly Used.

Contact Nigel Farage...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: fazersharp on 30 March 2019, 09:29:46 am
Leave Means Leave march - a few thousand - Latest from the Met - As of 21:00hrs five arrests have been made at the demonstrations in Central London today: x2 for assault, x1 drunk & disorderly, x1 for assaulting a police officer & x1 male arrested after being identified as wanted for an offence in Herts. All are in custody.
Just saying..... :rolleyes

I am surprised the figure is so low especially as they are all supposed to be fascist, racist, thick, thugs. Or maybe its because they are all OAPs with walking frames.5 arrests up to 9 pm I would of thought that was less than a normal Friday in London. :rolleyes :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: robbo on 30 March 2019, 09:43:10 am
People's Vote march - a million people - no arrests


Leave Means Leave march - a few thousand - Latest from the Met - As of 21:00hrs five arrests have been made at the demonstrations in Central London today: x2 for assault, x1 drunk & disorderly, x1 for assaulting a police officer & x1 male arrested after being identified as wanted for an offence in Herts. All are in custody.
Just saying..... :rolleyes

The Remainers would have been too busy eating their Waitrose prawn sandwiches, on their weekend jaunt. People had to put themselves out to attend yesterday being a work day.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 March 2019, 09:56:41 am
Quote
And it's statements like that that make you look like an idiot.The actual headline from the Met for the people's vote march was ....no significant arrests... However, guess what, one of my old school mates was on duty as a Metropolitan police officer on the March and he informed me that his squad alone made 47 arrests.You keep saying a million, what a load of shit. Professional military analysts  put the figure between 180000 and 230000...... Yep, that's as close as they can estimate given the location.I was there today and knew I would be quizzed over numbers so I took my clicker and done a head count as they were herded down Whitehall.
When I got got to 100000 I realised that's all my clicker went up to so then had to keep a record of how many times my clicker zeroed ..... Guess what....... I totally lost count after 1 million. 

No Dazza, I'm not an idiot. Keep up the personal abuse, it just goes to show how shallow your argument is  :)
Your 'mate' said there were 47 arrests. Yeah of course. It's all a big conspiracy isn't it.
'Professional military analysts'. Is this the same mate, or a different one?
And Tommy 'forgives me'! Who does he think he is? Jesus?  I hope you told him from me that he can fuck right off (SYL not Jesus)   :lol 

Actually if you have got a direct line to the almighty (and I wouldn't be surprised) could you tell him to come back down and sort this mess out :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 March 2019, 09:59:13 am
Quote
I am surprised the figure is so low especially as they are all supposed to be fascist, racist, thick, thugs. Or maybe its because they are all OAPs with walking frames.5 arrests up to 9 pm I would of thought that was less than a normal Friday in London.   

I was surprised too. I expected it to kick off between Nigel's crowd and the UKIP/SYL mob.

Nigel Farage ''My heart sinks as I reflect on the idea that they may be seen by some as representative of the cause for which I have campaigned for so much of my adult life. The very idea of Tommy Robinson (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/tommy-robinson) being at the centre of the Brexit debate is too awful to contemplate"
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 March 2019, 10:01:25 am
Quote
The Remainers would have been too busy eating their Waitrose prawn sandwiches, on their weekend jaunt. People had to put themselves out to attend yesterday being a work day.
You mean some of them have actually got jobs?  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 March 2019, 05:30:04 pm
Quote
The very idea of Tommy Robinson (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/tommy-robinson) being at the centre of the Brexit debate is too awful to contemplate"

 The great thing here is that those to the right of the Tories, the extreme right, have not only split their vote but certainly with UKIP are no longer hiding in the closet, they are openly fruitcakes, loonies and racists. 
They will drive more and more people away from supporting BREXIT.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 30 March 2019, 06:57:05 pm
.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 March 2019, 07:16:03 pm
 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 March 2019, 11:57:14 am
 
Quote
https://twitter.com/i/status/1111715367615901701 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1111715367615901701)
Quote
I was surprised too. I expected it to kick off between Nigel's crowd and the UKIP/SYL mob.

Despite the meagre numbers it has been reported it started to get ugly as the evening wore on.  And going by the footage and photographs I have seen that does seem to be the case.  Most certainly not the family atmosphere I understand mtread witnessed the week before when 1,000,000 plus people marched on London calling for a second referendum.


 
Interestingly numerous journalists there doing their job were threatened and told to "fuck off".


 
I have long believed that the police play a critical role in demonstrations.  In this instance they appeared to have adopted the right approach and only made arrests when they felt there was absolutely no other option. 



 
Most weirdly Gerard Batten leader of the fascist UKIP party claimed before the rally that police were planning to use water cannon.  The Met Police pointed out in response that they do not own or have access to water cannon.  I think it’s clear that UKIP wanted a riot. 




https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/29/pro-brexit-march-turns-ugly-as-police-arrest-five-protesters-9062221/ (https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/29/pro-brexit-march-turns-ugly-as-police-arrest-five-protesters-9062221/)   
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 March 2019, 11:57:58 am
The front page os today's Herald;


(https://www.heraldscotland.com/resources/images/9646720/?type=responsive-gallery-fullscreen)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 March 2019, 12:02:03 pm
Breaking news foccers;
The cancel article 50 petition - that is the biggest and fasted growing petition in the history of this union has just passed 6 million signatures.
 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 31 March 2019, 12:56:16 pm
Something for everybody....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 March 2019, 02:31:33 pm
 And yet even at this late stage you’ll be doing well to find a single foccer who knows why they want to leave, nevermind how they want to leave.
 
Sure time to cancel article 50?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 31 March 2019, 02:55:00 pm
Its time to re-title this thread to "The VNA and MTread Thread". I think everyone else is pissed off with being talked down to
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 31 March 2019, 03:11:46 pm
Makes a change  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 31 March 2019, 04:29:23 pm
Its time to re-title this thread to "The VNA and MTread Thread". I think everyone else is pissed off with being talked down to

thats why I stopped posting in it. no loss I know... :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 March 2019, 07:01:28 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3AOE0HXgAEM_2F.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 31 March 2019, 07:46:53 pm
Nobody is talking down to anybody, but after months (if not years) of listening to '52% beats 48%' & 'WTO rules are fine', 'No Deal must happen', 'you lost, get over it' and accused of being Remoaners, and talked down to....... it's finally turned into the shitshow we predicted. So it's our turn to say 'we told you so' and you don't like it?


But we're not gloating, we're all in the crap together. So stop being Bremoaners. Anyway, our cartoons and pictures are quite funny, you must admit  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 31 March 2019, 08:41:03 pm
they really aren't lol. but your right, we are all in this shitshow together. And its time the infighting stopped all over the country. There isnt a politician or a party I could vote for if an election was called, and I'm guessing many others feel the same. The only good thing about it all is im no longer that bothered by any of it. Most things in life can only hurt you if you let them. If there is an election and the country ends up being run by three people (Corbyn, mcdonnell and abbot) who hate it then so be it, if thats what the majority decide. They really all are all as self serving and bad as each other, and shame on us as a nation for letting such a pathetic bunch of losers represent us in parliament and the world :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grayo on 31 March 2019, 08:51:24 pm
Anyway, our cartoons and pictures are quite funny, you must admit  :D
Errr......no !!......Although the Royal Mail one was mildly amusing.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 March 2019, 09:52:56 pm
Quote
If there is an election and the country ends up being run by three people (Corbyn, mcdonnell and abbot)......................
Well, umm, how about....................

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D26CjQUXgAAqHlW.jpg) :lol :eek :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 March 2019, 11:28:27 pm
This is funny;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNc8aR-OTE8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNc8aR-OTE8)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 31 March 2019, 11:35:43 pm
Do you mind, that's my MP :eek
Anyway, I think this one's better
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 01 April 2019, 05:47:35 am
you two should be running a comedy show for the hand picked audience on the BBC. Oh how they would laugh... ;) :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Fazerider on 01 April 2019, 11:08:11 am
This is funny;
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNc8aR-OTE8[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNc8aR-OTE8[/url])

Quite an achievement… a panel where Will Self isn’t the most annoying participant. :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 01 April 2019, 11:51:35 am


you remoaners will believe any thing that the lying papers will print.
very selective ..millions remoaners against thousands of brexiteers.
papers will always print negatives that support them.
you remoaners can't say comes from fb.
EU major project and we dont even come close.....
https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/?fbclid=IwAR1UPbrU9SadWRDiiiFJEvJc3yvLUGdUrKz0giuqM2_B4a7Q_C1Usv19jss (https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/?fbclid=IwAR1UPbrU9SadWRDiiiFJEvJc3yvLUGdUrKz0giuqM2_B4a7Q_C1Usv19jss)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 April 2019, 11:58:39 am
Quote
Quite an achievement… a panel where Will Self isn’t the most annoying participant.

Agree with you on both counts  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: johnakay on 01 April 2019, 05:09:53 pm
[/size]Remainers can't even grasp that the EU money that is used in our country is actually our money [/font]
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 April 2019, 05:42:18 pm
Quote
Do you mind, that's my MP ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url])

Nae luck!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 April 2019, 05:45:06 pm
Quote
you remoaners will believe any thing that the lying papers will print.
You mean like this.................
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVm54iLUMAARxPX.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 April 2019, 05:57:44 pm
 
Quote
Remainers can't even grasp that the EU money that is used in our country is actually our money


 
Under the EU rural development fund, which is part of the common agricultural policy, my country has enjoyed considerable investment and development.  This is investment that otherwise would not have happened.  The Tories are not interested in rural Scotland, certainly not the lives of ordinary people and the viability of our communities.  Many of these projects not only have created jobs but made communities that would have otherwise died under the Tories viable and profitable, which in turn means tax for the exchequer.  One of the beautiful things about the EU is a lot of what it does can be detached, or is outwith petty regional or national politics. 



Scotland will take a double hit if we are dragged out of the EU against our will by England.  Not only will we lose any further massive investment by the EU, but the UK will be poorer as a whole meaning our Scottish Parliamentary budgets will be slashed by England.  Any money the UK saves from not having to pay to the EU in membership costs will be wiped out many times over by the economic impact of leaving.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 April 2019, 06:03:34 pm
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/14837/production/_104532048_stresstesto2018boe-nc.png)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 01 April 2019, 06:39:57 pm
[quote]Remainers can't even grasp that the EU money that is used in our country is actually our money
Of course we grasp it  :rolleyes If every country in the EU got more out than they put in, it would be a Ponzi Scheme!
The point of paying out to develop areas and countries is to increase trade and wealth all round.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 April 2019, 07:14:40 pm
BREXIT is simply an exercise in self harm.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 01 April 2019, 07:55:45 pm
Sssssssssssssssssssssssssssnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee  BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDD DDDDDDDDDDDDD
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 April 2019, 10:16:36 pm
So if I have got this correct.
Scotland's MPs tonight have voted positively for all 4 options. 

Scotland has not voted for May's deal.
Three things are clear tonight.

Scotland is prepared to do a deal. 

The Tory party continues to prevent any deal going through.
The Tory party continues to drive this union into the ground. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 April 2019, 12:17:24 am
Not quite. The SNP abstained on Ken Clarke's 'Customs Union only' vote, which lead to it losing by 3 votes


What is more amazing is that the DUP voted against Nick Boles' 'Customs Union + Single Market' vote. A vote which allows the UK to leave the EU, recognises the result of the referendum and removes the need for the Irish Backstop. Everything they have been asking for, yet they voted against it  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 02 April 2019, 04:48:49 pm

So if I have got this correct.
Scotland's MPs tonight have voted positively for all 4 options. 
Not quite. The SNP abstained on Ken Clarke's 'Customs Union only' vote, which lead to it losing by 3 votes


Fight! Fight! Fight! :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 April 2019, 06:05:24 pm
Quote
Fight! Fight! Fight!

Nah.... we're not Leavers  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 April 2019, 06:18:16 pm
Stop Press. May's latest announcement this evening 'The Labour Party is now in charge of Brexit'  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 April 2019, 06:35:09 pm
Quote
So if I have got this correct.
Scotland's MPs tonight have voted positively for all 4 options. 


Quote
Not quite. The SNP abstained on Ken Clarke's 'Customs Union only' vote, which lead to it losing by 3 votes

I stand corrected.  Jumped in too quick there.#
 But yes, the Tory party continues to block any deal.  The very same people who pressurised Cameron into offering a referendum, are now effectively preventing BREXIT in their delusional and reckless pursuit of NO DEAL. 
 
Quote
Stop Press. May's latest announcement this evening 'The Labour Party is now in charge of Brexit'  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])

She is clearly rejecting NO DEAL and asking for a further extension.  But it remains anybody’s guess if any sort of deal can be reached.  This is still all about the Troy Party.
 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 April 2019, 06:37:53 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3JKI4OXgAU90Gd.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 April 2019, 07:12:02 pm
Her 'good reason' for asking the EU for an extension will be based on the 'cooperation' element. As you say 'No Deal' is obviously off the table, and I expect some cabinet resignations shortly  :)
She'll bet on half the Tories plus most of Labour going for a softer Brexit, and that would get it over the line.
Labour will lay down conditions. It much depends on whether one of them is that any new deal is put to a referendum.
Corbyn won't be easy to deal with.....
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 April 2019, 07:21:31 pm
 NO DEAL is still the default position.  We leave on the 12th April.


We are reliant on the EU offering an extension.  I’m not sure that – having a chat with Jeremy is going to cut the mustard.  But lets see what happens.


This is getting desperate.  And if all that is achieved is a customs union, which is what I expect, well there is then a high possibility of a second Scottish Independence referendum.  If that happens, the Tories will refuse permission, the Scottish Parliament will do it anyway and the UK’s constructional crises will continue to get worse.


The Tories have once again completely fucked everything up.


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 April 2019, 07:23:40 pm
This, as predicted, is a already an economic disaster for the UK economy;
Quote
Brexit uncertainty has cost Britain £600 million a week - Goldman Sachs
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-goldmansachs/brexit-uncertainty-has-cost-britain-600-million-a-week-goldman-sachs-idUKKCN1RD1T8 (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-goldmansachs/brexit-uncertainty-has-cost-britain-600-million-a-week-goldman-sachs-idUKKCN1RD1T8)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 02 April 2019, 08:59:32 pm
NO DEAL is still the default position.  We leave on the 12th April.


We are reliant on the EU offering an extension.  I’m not sure that – having a chat with Jeremy is going to cut the mustard.  But lets see what happens.


This is getting desperate.  And if all that is achieved is a customs union, which is what I expect, well there is then a high possibility of a second Scottish Independence referendum.  If that happens, the Tories will refuse permission, the Scottish Parliament will do it anyway and the UK’s constructional crises will continue to get worse.


The Tories have once again completely fucked everything up.


You have to be careful with referendums. Youve lost the last 2  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 April 2019, 09:57:32 pm
 
Quote
You have to be careful with referendums. Youve lost the last 2  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/url])

Yes indeed.  The last three actually;


2011 United Kingdom Alternative Vote referendum
2014 Scottish Independence referendum
2016 EU referendum


If you wanna know what the result of any upcoming referendum will be – just ask me how I am voting – the opposite will be the result. :(


However I wouldn’t ever swap being on the right side for being on the winning side. ;)
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 02 April 2019, 10:00:48 pm
Stop Press. May's latest announcement this evening 'The Labour Party is now in charge of Brexit'  :)

You do realise this is only so, if it all goes tits-up, she can blame it on Corbyn...!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 02 April 2019, 10:50:50 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3Ks-QnWAAAbErx.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 02 April 2019, 11:23:15 pm
Quote
The Tories have once again completely fucked everything up.
Indeed. You have to wonder why May didn't seek cooperation two years ago.
O yes I know. It's because it would have split the Tory party even earlier...
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 April 2019, 05:15:58 pm
The EU (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/EU) would refuse to open trade talks with Britain after a no-deal Brexit (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/brexit) until the UK decided to sign up to the main elements of the withdrawal agreement anyway, the European Commission has said.
Speaking in the European parliament (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/EuropeanParliament) on Wednesday, Jean-Claude Juncker (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/jean-claude-juncker) said the Irish border, citizens’ rights and the divorce bill would need to be agreed before any other negotiations could begin.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-theresa-may-corbyn-pmqs-no-deal-customs-union-a8852011.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-live-theresa-may-corbyn-pmqs-no-deal-customs-union-a8852011.html)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 April 2019, 08:54:21 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3QKd5eWwAEQ4yJ.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 April 2019, 05:04:48 pm
You gotta love this one............................... :lol


(https://www.heraldscotland.com/resources/images/9665646.jpg?display=1&htype=0&type=responsive-gallery)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Slaninar on 07 April 2019, 12:09:02 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGhMdT_C-vQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGhMdT_C-vQ)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 April 2019, 12:22:56 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3fOxT4XsAA67vo.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 07 April 2019, 11:17:03 am
 :rolleyes

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 April 2019, 12:59:44 pm
 So, what is the reality of where we are now?


It boils down to the Good Friday agreement.  That means there can be no hard customs border between Eire and Northern Ireland.


A hard Brexit, ie NO DEAL, would mean some sort of hard border in Northern Ireland.


The Prime Minister has accepted that parliament would take whatever action it could to block a NO DEAL BREXIT.  Frankly it is common sense.


So the minimum requirement for an agreement on BREXIT is a customs union.   Hence the EU’s backstop, and it’s insistence that you cannot leave the customs union without it’s agreement.  Ie to leave you have to come up with a solution to the impossible.


But the customs union only covers actual goods, the UK economy today is a services economy.  Further we would be a rule taker and unable to make our own trade deals around the world.


Which brings us back to, why the foc do we want to leave?  It makes no sense.


So A50 has to be extended.  I think the EU will reject June as parliament shows no signs of moving forwards even though the reality is that May and Corbyn are effectively in agreement.  They are basically faffing about trying to find ways to disagree in order to hold their parties together. 



So it looks like a one year extension.  That means EU elections.  These will effectively become a second referendum in the absence of an actual referendum.


There is a danger of course that extremists such as UKIP and Nigel’s new party could win the bulk of the seats.


At the same time, it is likely that the SNP in Scotland will win the bulk of the Scottish seats (six seats available).  If England goes with UKIP and Nigel, and Scotland goes with the SNP, then I can’t see how a second Independence referendum can be avoided.  I think it will be too tempting for the Greens and SNP to ignore.  So the extension could mean the end of Great Britain. 



So I come back to what I have been saying all along.  BREXIT is not possible.  And what possibilities there are, are absolutely and utterly undesirable. 



The only way out of this mess is to cancel article 50.


At the end of the day it’s not about whether you like the result of a referendum that should never have been held.  It’s about political and economic reality.


 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 April 2019, 02:41:01 pm
Bad example. Of course the Grand National gets run every year. It's not just a one - off result.  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 April 2019, 03:15:03 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D3aGw_YWwAIrx4X.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 08 April 2019, 02:23:40 am
I was a strong Brexiteer. Now we must swallow our pride and think again (https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-was-strong-brexiteer-now-we-must-swallow-our-pride-and-think-again/)

"If we are to leave the European Union we want a sensible Brexit. There’s no chance of that just now."

I don't agree with all he says and some of it is factually incorrect, however he, at least, is speaking some sense and is willing to compromise, rather than risk a catastrophic No Deal as the "Sour grapes" option...

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 April 2019, 06:33:17 pm
 That’s 11 pages Grahamm. :eek


As the chief political commentator for The Daily Telegraph, he might perhaps admit that he was part of the problem.  That he did his bit to deliver the madness that is BREXIT.


Anyway, I’m not convinced many here are going to read all that.  So I’ve picked off some quotes,


Quote
I admire the prime minister, think she’s a hero, and have been one of her strong supporters.
Which suggests The Chief Political editor of the Telegraph is off his trolley.  However…..
Quote
It is practically certain that the next Tory leader will rip up Mrs May’s deal, however sensible and well-intentioned, and then embark on another two-year-long attritional battle with Europe. Does anybody truly want this? And just think what damage will be done to Britain as a nation.
But the EU isn’t prepared to renegotiate.  And of course, May’s Deal settles nothing.  The risk is actually that the next Tory PM, that is if May ever goes, will crash us out of the EU.
Quote
Investment-led growth has collapsed, and we need to stare that undeniable fact squarely in the face. Just look at the events of the early months of this year.
Yup totally agree with him there.
Quote
I vividly recall the wave of national elation when Margaret Thatcher brought Japanese car manufacturers to the declining north-east of England in the 1980s. This was a turning point in British industrial history.
And I agree again, that BREXIT is risking the desolation of British manufacturing industry.  The Japanese car manufacturers are already leaving.
Quote
When she was home secretary, Theresa May kept promising to combat the relatively high levels of immigration. The reality was she was powerless to do anything about it.
That’s simply not true.  The truth is that she would not apply the rules of freedom of movement.  The truth is that freedom of movement within the EU is not an issue for the UK.
Quote
The EU has just signed a huge, ground-breaking free-trade deal with Japan. If we leave, we must begin complex negotiations to get something as good. Does anyone seriously think we could get something better?
Which is why we need to kill BREXIT now.  It’s possible that if we did Honda could be persuaded to stay.  And Nissan and Toyota persuaded not to leave as they are without doubt gearing up to do.
Quote
All that will happen in future is that the UK, post Brexit, will be forced to ask to piggyback on EU trade deals with, say, Japan to secure equal terms. Our only argument will be that the aggregation of our market to the EU’s will add strength. Which is no more than the restoration of the position had we remained in the EU.
Absolutely agree.  We already have and will get further excellent free trade agreements round the globe with continued EU membership.  Outside the EU if we manage to squeeze the same quality of deals, well to do so will practically take mirracles.
 
 
Quote
The Brexiteers made a succession of claims about leaving the EU that have turned out to be untrue. They said it would be quick and easy. They said that a raft of trade deals would be available by the time we left the EU. To quote Liam Fox, “The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history. ”
Yes, Peter Oborne and your paper was part of the driving force behind the lies.  Surely this man should either persuade the editor and board of this paper to change tack, or leave.  This is not any ordinary issue.  It will, and may already be, determining the economic future of the UK.  BREXIT is in fact an extraordinary exercise in self harm.  And powers like The Telegraph have extraordinary in terms of influencing BREXIT.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 April 2019, 06:37:05 pm
Time fae a giggle;
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D4cMYBCWsAMilfd.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 April 2019, 06:43:24 pm
And sadly UKIP have decided to press the self destruct button and pretty much step aside for Nigel's BREXIT party.
I think we can now safely say UPKIP is now politcially finished.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-jHE45OS_g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-jHE45OS_g)


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 18 April 2019, 07:22:54 pm
Why not go back to the people and ask them if they want to have a second referendum on leave or don't leave, your parliament cannot decide what to do, so let the people do it.
Ballot paper would be simple,"Do you thnik we should have a second referendum on leaving the EU? Yes or No.  :eek
Or is that to simple?  :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 April 2019, 07:46:28 pm
A referendum on having a referendum? :eek :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 18 April 2019, 08:37:40 pm
Great solution, just too easy isn't it :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 18 April 2019, 09:49:17 pm
Quote
Great solution, just too easy isn't it ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rollin.gif[/url])

So what's the feeling down your way?  Don't hold back.
I would hazard a guess it's that the English have taken leave of their senses.  Are folks concerned, or just waiting to see what happens?


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 April 2019, 12:10:47 am
Christ almighty are UKIP absolutely and utterly finished.  What the foc are they on :eek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKwMVfVhBbY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKwMVfVhBbY)


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 19 April 2019, 12:53:57 am
VNA,
Laughing stock of the EU, especially when they say they want something and then vote against it  :rollin :rollin :rollin
Great TV, its better than any soap opera  :lol
Watching the house of Parliament in action is nearly better than watching 'Yes Minister'. :lol

The Exit side appear to have forgotten why the EU was set up in the first place "To end the frequent and bloody wars between neighbouring countries, which culminated in the Second World War".  :(
It is likely to create a civil war in UK, which is why a double referendum is required as stated previously as it would be the safest option, it sounds like a laughable joke, but it would resolve the issue and prevent a possible civil war.

We had a bloody civil war here in Ireland in 1921 when the country was divided in the direction to take, it turned neighbours against each other even family members against each other and it has taken over 3 generations to get come back from it. I remember growing up back in the 60s where neighbours did not speak to each other over a war than ended 40 years previous.

Another possible outcome if you do leave is, in 2 years Scotland vote to leave the UK to get back into EU Norther Ireland will follow suit 2 years later and then the Welsh will start thinking of doing the same. What started out as Brexit will be a break up the Union.
Then Who am I but just a unbiased casual observer who will need a green card, a passport and pain in the arse customs stops every time I want to visit friends in the UK or pass through the UK to get to France Spain or Netherlands because all the ferries in Ireland to mainland Europe are full when/if the Exiters have their way  :'(
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 19 April 2019, 07:26:09 am
I'm still no wiser about any of it, possibly because i've chosen to switch off whenever it's mentioned in discussions or on tv.
All i've learned is that politicians are bigger arseholes than i'd previously thought, as they've been in the limelight so much in previous months.
And i mean all of them, not just some of them, it's just that some are much bigger arseholes than the others.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 April 2019, 09:09:09 am
It's all about survival of the Tory party. Always has been and still is.  :o
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 April 2019, 10:45:47 am
 
Quote
Watching the house of Parliament in action is nearly better than watching 'Yes Minister'. ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/02/clip_image001.gif[/url])

 
Aye political satirists in the UK are now all unemployed.  The BREXITEERS have put them out of business.


Personally, whilst there is the possibility of civil unrest, at least to some small degree, I cannot see any risk of civil war.  I mean the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum passed largely without incidence.



I absolutely take your point on why the European project was started in the first place.  It locks all member states together and forces them to sit down, discuss, and find working solutions to any problem or disagreement.  On that it has absolutely delivered.  What was previously a war torn bitterly divided continent is very much largely at peace.


But are people in Ireland concerned?  A hard BREXIT, should it happen, will have a massive economic impact on ordinary people in the UK.   We do a shit load of trade with Ireland, and I would guess we are your biggest agricultural customer.  A hard BREXIT won’t hit you as hard as us, but Ireland could be dragged into recession to some degree.


Then of course the most important part for me is that we cannot undermine The Good Friday agreement.  A hard BREXIT effectively tears up that agreement and forces a border between NI and Eire.  I don’t think a hard BREXIT will happen, but it could happen.


Our parliament is frozen, stuck solid, a referendum does seem the only way forward.  That in itself is a major worry.  Today the truth is fake, and we have alternative facts if you don’t like reality. 
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 19 April 2019, 02:22:16 pm
Back with the pictures  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 19 April 2019, 05:32:17 pm
Personally, whilst there is the possibility of civil unrest, at least to some small degree, I cannot see any risk of civil war.  I mean the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum passed largely without incidence.
It may not be a civil war as we know of in the past but will be in the same vane of families and friends and neighbours turning against each other, if there is not a quick fix, but a recession/depression then it could escalate to be more serious and even though nobody wants it, with people playing the blame game.
.
I mean the 2014 Scottish Independence Referendum passed largely without incidence.
The difference there was that nothing changed, but Brexit is a different story completely. There will be major changes.

But are people in Ireland concerned?  A hard BREXIT, should it happen, will have a massive economic impact on ordinary people in the UK.   We do a shit load of trade with Ireland, and I would guess we are your biggest agricultural customer.  A hard BREXIT won’t hit you as hard as us, but Ireland could be dragged into recession to some degree.

Then of course the most important part for me is that we cannot undermine The Good Friday agreement.  A hard BREXIT effectively tears up that agreement and forces a border between NI and Eire.  I don’t think a hard BREXIT will happen, but it could happen.
People in Southern Ireland are concerned, but not as much as people Northern Ireland, there is a generation of people in Northern Ireland who have never known trouble times thanks to the Good Friday agreement. They voted to stay in the EU and the party holding the balance of power in Westminister seem to have forgotten that.
The two leading parties in Northern Ireland are so far apart in there heads it is frightening. It needs a third large party with the good parts of both side up there to resolve the problems not two pig headed one track minded parties, both with their own hidden agendas.  :eek Don't get me wrong I would love to see a United Ireland, but these two parties will not achieve it if they cannot even agree on running a government together. Brexit is probably the one thing that may result in a United Ireland
Southern Ireland needs the UK as much as the Uk needs Southern Ireland as they are so intrinsically intertwined going back to 1170 when the Pope asked the King of England to invade Ireland to bring them back on the true path of Catholicism. :rolleyes The horrors of past deeds on both sides need to be consigned to the history books, but learned from (O difficult but necessary) to ensure they never happen again.

The vote to leave the EU was taken in the midst of the Migrant crisis and untruths by the leave group, unchallenged by the stay group and probably the worst possible timing ever seen for a that vote.
I was over and back to Wales regularly after the vote and seeing Wales vote to leave. Met a lot of people in their mid twenties who had jobs and worked on EU Projects could not believe the majority voted to leave. Even they wondered as did I if they were blind to the signs on roads and cities of 10 to 20 projects funded by the Eu to a cost far greater than the UK paid in.
Wealthy people like Nigel Farage who earns between 500,000 to 800,000 a year and can afford private planes to bring him to meetings and Boris Johnson earning over 500,000 a year (Both with net worths over 1.5 million) do not have the will of the working class at heart only what they can gain from the chaos.




Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 19 April 2019, 08:15:13 pm
 Thanks Unfazed.  Good to get the view from Ireland.

Quote
The difference there was that nothing changed, but Brexit is a different story completely. There will be major changes.
But nothing has yet changed with BREXIT.  And with luck nothing will change, but there is a different mood in England and small but not insignificant extreme right.
Quote
Brexit is probably the one thing that may result in a United Ireland
I have been wondering that perhaps, more and more, young Unionists will begin to understand that their so-called Tory friends in England don’t actually give a flying fuck about them.  That even they might begin to consider that they might just have a brighter future in a united Ireland.
Quote
Wealthy people like Nigel Farage who earns between 500,000 to 800,000 a year and can afford private planes to bring him to meetings and Boris Johnson earning over 500,000 a year (Both with net worths over 1.5 million) do not have the will of the working class at heart only what they can gain from the chaos.
Yes, and according to Professor Minford, the darling economist of the Brexiteers, there is big money for them to be made from a hard BREXIT.  Don’t forget Jacob Rees Mogg – net worth 150 million.


As for Farage and Johnson, did you get your decimal place in the wrong place?  I would expect them both to worth a heck of a lot more than 1.5 million.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: unfazed on 19 April 2019, 10:07:22 pm

As for Farage and Johnson, did you get your decimal place in the wrong place?  I would expect them both to worth a heck of a lot more than 1.5 million.
 
That figure is the celebrity net worth per year. Their personal wealth is probably 100 times that, but did not think it was worth checking :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 28 April 2019, 03:56:11 pm

I was in the park with my dog and I said to this bloke,
"Would you support another Brexit referendum?"
"Not at all, " he replied. With that my dog bit him. I carried on and I saw a woman,
  I asked, "Would you support another Brexit referendum?"
"Never, " she said. My dog bit her as well.
As I carried on I met another man,
" Would you support another Brexit referendum?"
"Yes, we were all sold a lie." he said. With that my dog bit him.
My dog doesn't give a fuck about Brexit.  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 28 April 2019, 10:46:09 pm
Your dog doesn't get a vote  :D
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 April 2019, 07:02:31 am

It wouldn't get any comedy awards either.
That's the most unfunny 'joke' I've ever heard :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 April 2019, 10:08:28 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5bXRGAX4AI2ccc.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 03 May 2019, 03:17:29 pm
Theresa May said today the local election results gave both the Conservatives and Labour a simple message "to get on with Brexit".

Let's have a look at those results in detail shall we :rolleyes
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 May 2019, 08:21:11 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5p7uaxX4AABoDS.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 03 May 2019, 10:32:39 pm
Meanwhile, the Biased Broadcasting Corporation is reporting that there were "Losses for both main parties".

On the 10 o'clock news they mentioned the Conservatives 1,300 seat loss, but then said "Labour failed to make gains" as if it was comparable and they "lost nearly 100 seats".

How, exactly, is 82 "near 100" FFS!
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 May 2019, 12:29:05 am
How, exactly, is 82 "near 100" FFS!
Errrm it's 18 short of 100 and 82 away from 0. Seems nearer 100 to me :rolleyes .









Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 May 2019, 12:44:58 am
They also made a mistake with the Conservative losses. It wasn't 1300. It was 1334. I make that 'nearly 1500'  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 May 2019, 01:16:28 pm
Quote
Theresa May said today the local election results gave both the Conservatives and Labour a simple message "to get on with Brexit".
 
Let's have a look at those results in detail shall we :rolleyes

Weird init?  May says her party, and also the Labour party lost seats because they have not delivered BREXIT.  Yet all the big gains were with parties who oppose BREXIT.
The message is clear, the people don’t want BREXIT.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 May 2019, 08:05:06 pm

If that's the case then hardly anyone will vote for Nigel's Brexit Party in the European Parliament election.


Assuming the UK is actually taking part, we'll find out soon won't we ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 05 May 2019, 11:07:32 pm
Quote
If that's the case then hardly anyone will vote for Nigel's Brexit Party in the European Parliament election.
Assuming the UK is actually taking part, we'll find out soon won't we

Unless the UK agrees a deal by 23rd May we have to take part.


And it seems Labour and the Tories have now fallen out, not surprisingly  :rolleyes So no parliamentary deal looks likely.


The Brexit Party will get lots of votes. But so will the anti Brexit vote. Tories and Labour may as well not bother. We are all still as divided as ever.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Grahamm on 06 May 2019, 12:17:22 am
How, exactly, is 82 "near 100" FFS!
Errrm it's 18 short of 100 and 82 away from 0. Seems nearer 100 to me

Magistrate: Mr YamFazFan. You were clocked at 82 mph. That's nearly 100 miles an hour so we're taking away your licence...

:rolleyes .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Val on 06 May 2019, 01:49:34 am
May and #BBC think most people are morons.
 
 Report this:
 
 May's "concession" in Labour talks is a customs union until 2022. That is the same year the extended transition would end under her Brexit deal. She has offered nothing at all. In fact her "new deal" is worst than the transition period...

How is that better or a deal FFS?  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 May 2019, 09:34:00 am
The 'talks' always were a sham. A delaying tactic while she hoped to persuade her hard Brexiteers to come in line. Her tactics have been a disaster since the beginning.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 06 May 2019, 01:06:10 pm

Its a bit like the scorpion and the frog wanting to cross the river story innit.
so, theres this school with 100 pupils.
the teachers ask the kids what soup they want for dinner, promising whatever they choose is what they'll get.. 52 want chicken, 48 want beef. The teachers have to honour their promise but dont really want the kids to have what they want, so they piss in the soup. The 48 who wanted beef think this is clever and great, so they do too.
so the 52 shake their heads, and say "why did you do that? Youv'e ruined it for everybody now. us and you. it makes no sense. "  and the teachers and the 48 other kids say "don't care. the main thing is its focced. you can still have it, but its gonna be shit..."
And thats where we are.
huge congrats to anti democracy MPs, and of course remainers. between you, you got us where we are today. The EU salutes you. ..
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 06 May 2019, 01:43:45 pm
No, no. It's the hard Brexiteers and the DUP that have ambushed May's leave plan. If they had voted with her we would have been out by now.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Val on 06 May 2019, 07:02:59 pm

It wouldn't get any comedy awards either.
That's the most unfunny 'joke' I've ever heard :rolleyes

Any time you get depressed by monumental foc up called Brexit watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNRx3vQuvsY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNRx3vQuvsY)
I give you 100% ROFL guarantee  :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 May 2019, 07:30:03 pm
 Yup that about sums it up Val.
Ogri, don’t forget that this is about the Tory party.  It was never a pressing priority for the people to have a referendum.  And the Tories offered it confident they would not have to actually put it to the people.  And when their hand was forced by the electorate, they one, thought nobody would be daft enough to vote to leave, and two, when it was rejected it would shut the anti-EU minority wing of the party up for a generation or so.  But it all went tits up.
 
Meanwhile I’m bit peeved.  Gonna test ride the CB1000R soon, but the MT10 is still definitely a contender, it is a thirsty brute but it does have a very nice riding position – very comfortable indeed (though there is a question over the actual seat). 
But pre referendum it was 10k on the road.  Now it’s 12k.
Wonder what sort of discount I can get.
Bloody BREXIT.
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 May 2019, 12:27:05 pm

47 years ago you could get a Z1 900 for about £800.


They're going for £20,000+ now. Bloody BREXIT :wall
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 07 May 2019, 07:41:37 pm
 :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 May 2019, 08:00:06 pm
Quote
They're going for £20,000+ now. Bloody BREXIT ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wall.gif[/url])

No need to panic, a brand new Z900RS is yours for £10200 quid.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 May 2019, 08:01:37 pm
Anyway EU elections are pretty much a certainty now :) Bring it on.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 May 2019, 08:03:34 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D51eStfWkAEcgXq.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 07 May 2019, 08:18:11 pm
I gotta admit it makes no sense now that I ride like an old fart, but i'd love an mt10... :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 May 2019, 08:44:29 pm

Quote
They're going for £20,000+ now. Bloody BREXIT ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/wall.gif[/url])

No need to panic, a brand new Z900RS is yours for £10200 quid.



The Z900RS is the best looking road bike currently available IMHO. Not got the power of the MT10, but I like the retro looks.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 07 May 2019, 10:29:13 pm
 
Quote
I gotta admit it makes no sense now that I ride like an old fart, but i'd love an mt10... :)
You should take one out for a spin.  I didn’t even manage to get a mile from the dealership before I’d pulled a wheelie.  It can be civil, but it’s an absolute brute when you try and spank it. 
Was hoping to try the CB1000R tomorrow, but it’s forecast rain, so maybe not.
Quote
The Z900RS is the best looking road bike currently available IMHO. Not got the power of the MT10, but I like the retro looks.
Not seen one in the flash, but the photos do now’t for me. 

And if we do crash out of the EU at some point.  My advice is, go directly to your dealer of choice and sign up for a brand new bike - it may be your last chance to get a new bike as prices will soar and dealers will go bust.

 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 May 2019, 10:52:09 am

But pre referendum it was 10k on the road.  Now it’s 12k.
Wonder what sort of discount I can get.
Bloody BREXIT.


You know the rules...NO discounts with BREXIT :deal
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 08 May 2019, 02:02:36 pm
Anyway why on earth would you buy a Z900RS over a Speed Twin?
If you want cool retro looks in a modern bike then the speed twin hits the spot. 


Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: ogri48 on 08 May 2019, 07:44:57 pm
yup Id much rather have the trumpet
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 May 2019, 10:29:14 am

Anyway why on earth would you buy a Z900RS over a Speed Twin?
If you want cool retro looks in a modern bike then the speed twin hits the spot.


That's a bit like saying why on earth would you buy a red bike instead of a blue one. It's all down to individual taste. There's no right or wrong answer.


I don't like like that angular 'Transformer' look of a lot of new bikes, but people still buy them :\
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 09 May 2019, 04:00:14 pm
When the Z1 came out in '72 the Bonneville was looking crap. In' 68 when the Bonneville looked gorgeous, Japanese bikes looked crap (Honda 750 was '69) ;)
So you choose your retro carefully  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 May 2019, 06:29:53 pm
Quote
That's a bit like saying why on earth would you buy a red bike instead of a blue one. It's all down to individual taste. There's no right or wrong answer.

(http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/2019-triumph-speed-twin-review-5.jpg)

Or,

(https://cmsimages-alt.kbb.com/content/dam/kbb-editorial/motorcycles/2018/2018-Kawasaki-Z900RS-55.jpg)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 May 2019, 06:30:38 pm
No contest really
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 10 May 2019, 03:43:19 am
To true Z900 wins hands down
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 May 2019, 11:39:16 pm
What?!! :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 May 2019, 07:49:37 am
We all have our own individual opinions and likes. Would you believe it, some people even voted for Brexit  :eek
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 May 2019, 11:17:39 am
We all have our own individual opinions and likes. Would you believe it, some people even voted for Brexit  :eek

May 8th Euro elections poll puts Nigel's Brexit Party on 34%, Labour 21%, Lib Dems 12%, Tories 11%, Green 8%, UKIP 4%, SNP 4%, Change UK 3%.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/11/poll-surge-for-farage-panic-conservatives-and-labour (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/11/poll-surge-for-farage-panic-conservatives-and-labour)

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 12 May 2019, 02:49:29 pm
My take on it: this is a nicely taken shot of an ok looking bike:


([url]http://kickstart.bikeexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/2019-triumph-speed-twin-review-5.jpg[/url])



and this one is a crap angle on an ok looking bike:


Quote
Or,

(https://cmsimages-alt.kbb.com/content/dam/kbb-editorial/motorcycles/2018/2018-Kawasaki-Z900RS-55.jpg)



But you could have had:


(https://i.postimg.cc/tgLRk35c/DSCN1206.jpg)


Which in my view, is a better angle, taken by a complete amateur snapper, of a very nice looking bike.


An insightful post from VNA though  ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 12 May 2019, 02:50:03 pm
But what a vast improvement in a shitty little thread  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 May 2019, 05:37:03 pm
Quote
May 8th Euro elections poll puts Nigel's Brexit Party on 34%, Labour 21%, Lib Dems 12%, Tories 11%, Green 8%, UKIP 4%, SNP 4%, Change UK 3%.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/11/poll-surge-for-farage-panic-conservatives-and-labour (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/11/poll-surge-for-farage-panic-conservatives-and-labour)

You've been reading the Guardian! :eek
Anyway, if you remember the polls in 2016 put Remain ahead. Tactical voting on the 23rd could destroy the frogface one.

Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 12 May 2019, 07:41:42 pm
I wonder what excuse Remain will use to discredit the results this time if The Brexit Party do well in the election?.
They can't use the old 'People didn't know the full facts' chestnut, because we are constantly being told that we do now and that's why a second referendum is required.
Maybe it'll be the 'They were fibbing!' favourite? :lol
But then again if Remain are to be believed virtually no one wants Brexit, so maybe The Brexit Party won't win anything :\ .
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 12 May 2019, 10:36:33 pm
As I said on Wednesday night after going 3-0 down, there's all to play for  :)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 13 May 2019, 09:51:40 am
Hedgetrimmer naked 900 kawasaki always look the dogs in Eddy Lawson green. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 13 May 2019, 10:28:36 am
Quote
May 8th Euro elections poll puts Nigel's Brexit Party on 34%, Labour 21%, Lib Dems 12%, Tories 11%, Green 8%, UKIP 4%, SNP 4%, Change UK 3%.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/11/poll-surge-for-farage-panic-conservatives-and-labour (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/11/poll-surge-for-farage-panic-conservatives-and-labour)

You've been reading the Guardian! :eek
Anyway, if you remember the polls in 2016 put Remain ahead. Tactical voting on the 23rd could destroy the frogface one.




Personally, I just cant wait for the results, and to hear all of the gobshite thats gonna pour out as to why the main political parties got hammered
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 May 2019, 02:24:38 pm

I expect they'll hurl insults at Nigel Farage if they get hammered by The Brexit Party.



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 May 2019, 06:33:54 pm
Hopefully, when Farage loses, he'll shut up for good and piss off  :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 May 2019, 07:53:06 pm
 Nigel says that the policy of the BREXIT party is not to have a manifesto. :eek
 
I guess, sort of vote for us and see what you get.  Maybe they should call themselves the lucky dip party.


Worth watching – Andrew Marr absolutely destroys Nigel Farage. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p078zjlq (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p078zjlq)
Is this what you really want?
 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 13 May 2019, 08:30:22 pm
Nigel says that the policy of the BREXIT party is not to have a manifesto. :eek
 
I guess, sort of vote for us and see what you get.  Maybe they should call themselves the lucky dip party.


Worth watching – Andrew Marr absolutely destroys Nigel Farage. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p078zjlq (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p078zjlq)
Is this what you really want?


Hmmm. First time ive seen that. I rather like the cut of his jib. Bring it on.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 May 2019, 09:39:13 pm

Andrew Marr just increased The Brexit Party vote :lol .



Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 May 2019, 10:23:02 pm
Just a reminder what you are voting for
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 13 May 2019, 10:40:10 pm
Nigel also wants to privatise the NHS. 



(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6ZGMRCXoAIjgtX.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 May 2019, 10:42:51 pm
There's one missing....'Supports the democratic decision of the UK voters to leave the EU' ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 13 May 2019, 10:50:50 pm
Followed by 'fucks up the UK'


As has been said many times before, the 2016 vote did not have 'No Deal written' on the ballot paper. There is no mandate for No Deal.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 13 May 2019, 11:28:38 pm

That's easily solved. A referendum to choose between May's Deal or No Deal.  Remain has already been rejected, so that's off the table.


Bring it on :) .







Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 14 May 2019, 12:10:05 am
But Farage during the 2016 campaign said he was in favour of single market membership.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 May 2019, 08:55:26 am
Voting for a party that has publicly said it will publish its manifesto after the election  :rolleyes You lot are easily fooled (again)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: agricola on 14 May 2019, 09:16:56 am
Voting for a party that has publicly said it will publish its manifesto after the election  :rolleyes You lot are easily fooled (again)


Voting for parties that publish in their manifestos that they will honour the result of the referendum  :rolleyes  You lot are easily fooled (again)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mtread on 14 May 2019, 09:22:43 am
Farage said he wouldn't honour the result of the referendum, if Leave lost.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 14 May 2019, 09:31:15 am
THIS THREAD GOT FAR MORE INTERESTING WHEN WE WERE TALKING BIKES. SAME BIASED B****KS COMING FROM THE SAME 2 MOUTHS. 
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 May 2019, 11:57:37 am

Farage has something that both May and Corbyn are seriously lacking....charisma.


I mean, who do you think would be the best company to have a pint and a chat with in your local, Farage or Corbyn?. Exactly ;)
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 14 May 2019, 03:21:43 pm
THIS THREAD GOT FAR MORE INTERESTING WHEN WE WERE TALKING BIKES. SAME BIASED B****KS COMING FROM THE SAME 2 MOUTHS.


So-called "political animals" are the worst kind of person. Promoting division, stirring argument, self-righteous, arrogant pricks, the lot of em.


BUT...


You started this thread steve... :b


It should be removed from the forum.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: steve 10562cc on 14 May 2019, 04:29:25 pm
If you look back I have asked for it to be removed on more than 1 occasion. It was titled just for VNA trouble was we all joined in and are now suffering the consequences.   
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: mickvp on 14 May 2019, 05:14:39 pm
This isn’t brexit related but since we are talking about farage et al and their policies... I’ve said for a long time that MP’s salaries should be in some way linked to the average U.K. wage, so that the only way for those shysters to get a better salary themselves is to do something about the U.K. as a whole.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 May 2019, 05:22:20 pm

If you look back I have asked for it to be removed on more than 1 occasion. It was titled just for VNA trouble was we all joined in and are now suffering the consequences.


I might be wrong, but as the creator you're able to edit/alter the thread title though aren't you?.


Couldn't you just rename it something non-descript and hope it slips away into obscurity? :lol
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Dudeofrude on 14 May 2019, 07:09:00 pm

If you look back I have asked for it to be removed on more than 1 occasion. It was titled just for VNA trouble was we all joined in and are now suffering the consequences.


I might be wrong, but as the creator you're able to edit/alter the thread title though aren't you?.


Couldn't you just rename it something non-descript and hope it slips away into obscurity? :lol

If hes really clever he will rename it something obscene then post dirty pictures in it..... then itll get moved to the naughty corner and die like the rest of the threads in there haha
Title: Re: TALKING B****cKS THREAD
Post by: steve 10562cc on 14 May 2019, 08:42:49 pm
HOPE THAT WORKS,
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: dazza on 14 May 2019, 08:59:08 pm
Unless he renames it "Filth" The Most popular thread in the naughty corner....apparently .....so a friend told me.  :lol


Anyway,.....Nigel Fararge...... The next prime minister....and


TommyRobinson.......MEP for the North East.






That should shake things up a bit. :D


And now for a factual joke
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 14 May 2019, 11:57:41 pm
Dazza, are those glasses of milk shake that Tommy likes so much?  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: dazza on 15 May 2019, 05:50:55 am
I wonder if you’d laugh if someone threw something all over your misses or children.
I very much doubt it.


But because it’s Tommy Robinson you condone a physical assault.....
Yep, that speaks volumes.
That’s why I’ve stayed off of this thread, you’re blinded to your own hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: darrsi on 15 May 2019, 06:39:20 am
THIS THREAD GOT FAR MORE INTERESTING WHEN WE WERE TALKING BIKES. SAME BIASED B****KS COMING FROM THE SAME 2 MOUTHS.


So-called "political animals" are the worst kind of person. Promoting division, stirring argument, self-righteous, arrogant pricks, the lot of em.


BUT...


You started this thread steve... :b


It should be removed from the forum.


If we were removed from Europe after the votes were counted this thread wouldn't have even happened. But somehow it all went awry.  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 15 May 2019, 09:27:50 am
Steve, when you retitled this thread you missed a trick. If you'd called it 'which engine oil should I use' or 'another tyre thread', nobody would have come near it!
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 15 May 2019, 09:34:57 am
Quote
I wonder if you’d laugh if someone threw something all over your misses or children.I very much doubt it.

My 'child' is 36 and 20 stone. The perpetrator wouldn't have got anywhere near him :D
Anyway, Tommy Ten Names likes starting trouble and then playing the victim. It's a far right thing.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 May 2019, 06:48:33 pm
 
Quote
TommyRobinson.......MEP for the North East.

Ah yes so called Tommy Robinson, real name - Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon.  Convicted criminal and racist thug.


So what’s he up to these days?  Hmmmmmmmm............


Apparently, he is standing for election as an MEP.  But we all know UKIP is finished.  Pretty much dead and buried.


Meanwhile, his attempt get paedophiles off the hook has come back to haunt him once more.  In due course he will be appearing in court – yet again – on contempt of court charges.  If found guilty, and let’s hope so, he faces a 2-year stretch.


He also faces more appearances in court as he is being sued for libel to the tune of £100,000.  Lets hope he looses and gets served the court fees too.


Further after stating he will give his MEP’s salary (that he has zero chance of getting) to sexual abuse charities, within days 43 such charities responded by politely telling him to foc off stating that they will never ever take money from the likes of SCYL.


So his party is fucked, it looks like he’s gonna be fucked and hopefully bankrupt too.


Quote
I wonder if you’d laugh if someone threw something all over your misses or children.
He’s gonna get a lot more than a milk shake in his face over the next few months , and yeah it’s gonna put one big foccing smile on ma face.  Bye bye SCYL.


Best not mention him again Dazza – he finished. :lol
 
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: darrsi on 15 May 2019, 09:02:41 pm
Quote
I wonder if you’d laugh if someone threw something all over your misses or children.I very much doubt it.

My 'child' is 36 and 20 stone. The perpetrator wouldn't have got anywhere near him :D
Anyway, Tommy Ten Names likes starting trouble and then playing the victim. It's a far right thing.



I think his point was more like what if it was acid?
I don't believe acid cares about weight and age, it will mess you up.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 15 May 2019, 09:27:49 pm
Foc him. 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 15 May 2019, 10:57:46 pm
Quote
I think his point was more like what if it was acid?
I think you'll find the bloke was drinking the stuff before he threw it....
What if, what if..... what if one of Tommy's supporters shot and stabbed an MP to death shouting 'Britain First'? What about his followers constantly sending death and rape threats to Remain supporting MPs.


'Nothing to do with Tommy' I hear you say? Bollox. He just winds them up.

Yeah foc him.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: darrsi on 15 May 2019, 11:28:12 pm
As mentioned before, there is no point in a discussion with you and VNA, because you are so set in your ways that you have no time for anyone elses point of view, even though i'm not particularly biased either way, and in this case was merely stating it could have been more than just a drink that was thrown.
I never saw him drink anything by the way, all i saw was some majorly smug grin as he launched the container.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 May 2019, 12:15:36 am
SCYL is a thug.  A football hooligan who’ll stick you in hospital for wearing the ‘wrong’ colours.
He fights and attacks people for fun.  He’s got multiple convictions, yes including assault.
He’s a fascist, a bigot and a racist.
He’s a man who tries to get paedophiles of the hook for his own narcissistic pleasure and to try and incite racist bigoted violence.
The man is an utter cunt.  Foc him.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 16 May 2019, 12:31:37 am
Quote
I never saw him drink anything by the way, all i saw was some majorly smug grin as he launched the container.
When you read about the full report, SYL and his followers approached him first and baited him. SYL wants to portray himself as the victim, always. The thrower is now also getting death threats.
As to 'always set in our ways', well perhaps it's not just us, is it?
I have many friends who voted Leave. We accept each others' view. I don't have any friends that support SYL.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 16 May 2019, 12:40:28 am
Anyway.... As to Brexit B****cks, May says she is going to bring her deal back to parliament in early June. She's going to get a pasting in the Euros, then lose again her deal in Parliament.
Is this her resignation swansong? Is so, what happens next? A Tory leadership election? That'll take time, meanwhile not much can happen on Brexit.
So what's her plan? Not what you think should happen, but what you think will happen. I'm honestly interested to know.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: darrsi on 16 May 2019, 03:39:35 am
Quote
I never saw him drink anything by the way, all i saw was some majorly smug grin as he launched the container.
When you read about the full report, SYL and his followers approached him first and baited him. SYL wants to portray himself as the victim, always. The thrower is now also getting death threats.
As to 'always set in our ways', well perhaps it's not just us, is it?
I have many friends who voted Leave. We accept each others' view. I don't have any friends that support SYL.


Sidestepping the point again, irrespective of "reading a full report" in this day and age it would be classed as very bad form to throw ANY form of liquid, especially in a concealed container, over someone as you would instantly fear for your own safety.
I'm not trying to sugar coat this, it's just a horrible fact.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 16 May 2019, 10:32:02 am
Hardly a 'concealed container'. Or perhaps the straw could be a disguised gun? Anyway SYL approached him first, not the other way round. So no premeditation.
So, justified death threats?
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 May 2019, 11:29:43 am
 Carl Benjamin and Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon are now it appears being regularly pelted with milkshakes as they tour the country campaigning for the Euro elections. :)
Carl has managed three shakes in three consecutive days. :) :) :)
Stephen is trailing him slightly at the moment with only two milk shakes in two consecutive days. :) :)
If either of them decide to venture North of the border I’d be happy to buy them a milkshake or two. ;) :D :lol
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 May 2019, 12:08:57 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6jQVu9XkAAdsst.jpg:large)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 16 May 2019, 02:27:38 pm
Does anyone in here actually feel they've made their point yet?  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 16 May 2019, 02:39:15 pm
.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 May 2019, 12:27:01 am
Carl Benjamin's campaign bus got drenched in milksake in Plymouth.Oh man :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 17 May 2019, 03:33:11 pm
Apparently The Peace, Love and Milkshake Party will be greeting Stephen for his planned visit to Preston on Monday.
Sounds like fun. :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: dazza on 18 May 2019, 10:56:13 pm
SCYL is a thug.  A football hooligan who’ll stick you in hospital for wearing the ‘wrong’ colours.
He fights and attacks people for fun.  He’s got multiple convictions, yes including assault.
He’s a fascist, a bigot and a racist.
He’s a man who tries to get paedophiles of the hook for his own narcissistic pleasure and to try and incite racist bigoted violence.
The man is an utter cunt.  Foc him.
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DlFY6oWjqJsA&h=AT1eWwZkGYpL68_-doCnKZOt8iBfzkmsW7q3dNGK_JdxiPMBIsx4Kk7wJjXpwiCQHtPJHE8OsU_iofc3xCUxc-4_G_uWIb3BFN5v4qS4tZn59YUaV5mHYqdiBt0&s=1 (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DlFY6oWjqJsA&h=AT1eWwZkGYpL68_-doCnKZOt8iBfzkmsW7q3dNGK_JdxiPMBIsx4Kk7wJjXpwiCQHtPJHE8OsU_iofc3xCUxc-4_G_uWIb3BFN5v4qS4tZn59YUaV5mHYqdiBt0&s=1)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 18 May 2019, 11:00:54 pm
Still not following your dodgy links. Just summarise the content  :rolleyes
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 18 May 2019, 11:23:13 pm

Looking ahead to the European Parliament election on Thursday, are we all agreed that if a Leave orientated party wins the most votes then that's a clear indication of the will of the people?.


Would be difficult to argue otherwise I guess?.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 18 May 2019, 11:47:34 pm
Carl Benjamin and Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon are now it appears being regularly pelted with milkshakes as they tour the country campaigning for the Euro elections. :)
Carl has managed three shakes in three consecutive days. :) :) :)
Stephen is trailing him slightly at the moment with only two milk shakes in two consecutive days. :) :)
If either of them decide to venture North of the border I’d be happy to buy them a milkshake or two. ;) :D :lol
 
So from the look of it you think that's all ok and completely acceptable then.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 19 May 2019, 12:32:23 am
Quote
Would be difficult to argue otherwise I guess?.
Only if they get over 50%  :b
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: dazza on 19 May 2019, 12:39:23 am
Yep, the two left wingers think it's perfectly acceptable to assault someone with a different point of view from themselves.
Like I said at the beginning, this is going to be an interesting social experiment.
The only ones who really condone violence are the supposed liberals.
BTW....Tommy Robinson has got more integrity in his left bollock than most of the MP's in Parliament and most definitely the two left wing fuckwits on here  :lol
Now, where's that popcorn ?  :D
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grayo on 19 May 2019, 09:21:26 am
(https://i.postimg.cc/sgtgyVsG/Jackson-popcorn-zps1ed2fc76.gif) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 May 2019, 10:56:45 am

I wouldn't recommend watching today's Andrew Marr programme if you're an ardent Remainer.


On second thoughts please do, it's brilliant :lol .



Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 19 May 2019, 11:25:06 am
Quote
Yep, the two left wingers think it's perfectly acceptable to assault someone with a different point of view from themselves.Like I said at the beginning, this is going to be an interesting social experiment.The only ones who really condone violence are the supposed liberals.BTW....Tommy Robinson has got more integrity in his left bollock than most of the MP's in Parliament and most definitely the two left wing fuckwits on here   Now, where's that popcorn ?   

[/size]Careful of that blood pressure Dazza, it can be quite dangerous!
[/size]To help I've raised a new thread for you where you can spout your 'Tommy is a victim' nonsense as much as you like. The rest of us can just debate Brexit in a civilised but piss taking way. I've even started it off for you :) http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,25273.0.html (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,25273.0.html)
[/size]Because to be honest, when you start throwing personal insults at other forum members, you've lost the plot (and the argument).
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 19 May 2019, 11:27:20 am
Back to the subject...... . Here's a guide to voting on Thursday (in England).
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 19 May 2019, 11:39:23 am
In case you can't wait, here's a sneak preview of the Brexit Party's Manifesto, to be published on Friday.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 May 2019, 03:50:17 pm

Quote
Would be difficult to argue otherwise I guess?.
Only if they get over 50%  :b

It wouldn't make a lot of difference if they got 90%.


We'd still wake up Friday morning to hear The Lib Dems and Change UK (the party that wants everything to stay the same incidently) telling us how 'The People' don't want Brexit :z .
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 19 May 2019, 07:37:52 pm
Quote
It wouldn't make a lot of difference if they got 90%.
Nigel reckons he's going to get 110%. It must be true, he's written it on the side of a bus  :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: dazza on 19 May 2019, 07:52:55 pm
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tr.news%2Fislamic-attack-what-really-happened-yesterday-in-oldham%2F&h=AT0-II4Xe1vnjc4bKie165oEjag2ortUNRdLqhR24ERDolayjxzXwD48j1TcpotEy1H2tWmemkfMAueZcXELJ1lc1VB1t0LuLl4bzKHinQOFpo_d8Ub2KIXbYyk9x0z2AJqncDw&s=1 (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tr.news%2Fislamic-attack-what-really-happened-yesterday-in-oldham%2F&h=AT0-II4Xe1vnjc4bKie165oEjag2ortUNRdLqhR24ERDolayjxzXwD48j1TcpotEy1H2tWmemkfMAueZcXELJ1lc1VB1t0LuLl4bzKHinQOFpo_d8Ub2KIXbYyk9x0z2AJqncDw&s=1)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 19 May 2019, 08:04:58 pm
From a great article - as you don't like clicking links I have encapsulated it for you here.
So it’s acceptable now to assault electoral candidates? That’s the pretty scary take-home message
Journalists and even politicians have been going wild over it, Johnny Mercer said the attacks made him ‘#lovebritain’. later realising it isn’t a good idea for a member of an increasingly unpopular party to green-light assaults on unpopular political figures.

It is surely a basic principle of democracy that individuals can campaign for office without fearing assault,The media class has basically said that it is acceptable to attack an electoral candidate. 

The double standards here are gobsmacking. The man who threw an egg at Jeremy Corbyn condemned as a violent threat to democracy and was jailed for 28 days.

People who are condoning the "milk shaking" are implying that physical violence against politicians is acceptable.
In a democracy you argue and debate and vote, you don’t use violence. But in the view of those cheering the assault, violence is acceptable.
What impact do you think this message you are supporting will have on some angry members of the public who think Brexit-betraying Labour and Tory MPs are traitors.
You can’t claim that a handful of men shouting in Anna Soubry’s face outside Parliament is an outrage against the democratic process but the assaulting of other electoral candidates is fine.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Frosties on 19 May 2019, 08:56:37 pm
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tr.news%2Fislamic-attack-what-really-happened-yesterday-in-oldham%2F&h=AT0-II4Xe1vnjc4bKie165oEjag2ortUNRdLqhR24ERDolayjxzXwD48j1TcpotEy1H2tWmemkfMAueZcXELJ1lc1VB1t0LuLl4bzKHinQOFpo_d8Ub2KIXbYyk9x0z2AJqncDw&s=1 (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tr.news%2Fislamic-attack-what-really-happened-yesterday-in-oldham%2F&h=AT0-II4Xe1vnjc4bKie165oEjag2ortUNRdLqhR24ERDolayjxzXwD48j1TcpotEy1H2tWmemkfMAueZcXELJ1lc1VB1t0LuLl4bzKHinQOFpo_d8Ub2KIXbYyk9x0z2AJqncDw&s=1)


Says it all really, what a considerable amount of people are concerned about but the PC do gooders just paint over and twist. They don't want integration...they want control of our country.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 19 May 2019, 11:22:38 pm
Quote
People who are condoning the "milk shaking" are implying that physical violence against politicians is acceptable.In a democracy you argue and debate and vote, you don’t use violence. But in the view of those cheering the assault, violence is acceptable.What impact do you think this message you are supporting will have on some angry members of the public who think Brexit-betraying Labour and Tory MPs are traitors.You can’t claim that a handful of men shouting in Anna Soubry’s face outside Parliament is an outrage against the democratic process but the assaulting of other electoral candidates is fine.

I don't condone anybody throwing anything at anybody.
Anna Soubry has been given death threats, as have many other 'traitors'. One of which was carried out.
Here's a quote from SYL picked up by RTE in 2016
“If the cameras aren’t there, fucking punch the geezers right in the head,” he said, adding that being seen to be aggressive “just turns people off”. “You want to be seen as the victims – people viewing you like: ‘Fucking hell, look how they’re getting treated. Give them a chance’ – you know what I mean?”

So, best to stop throwing milkshakes. It's just what he wants.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 19 May 2019, 11:27:21 pm

 ;)
Quote
It wouldn't make a lot of difference if they got 90%.
Nigel reckons he's going to get 110%. It must be true, he's written it on the side of a bus  :)


Open top I expect with solid tyres, vintage 1917. Last seen giving mystery tours of the High Street ;)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 20 May 2019, 12:33:04 am
Quote
Open top I expect with solid tyres, vintage 1917. Last seen giving mystery tours of the High Street

I bet he doesn't even own a bus!  ;)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 20 May 2019, 04:00:12 pm
I bet he doesn't even own a bus!  ;) [/font]

He does, it has German number plates though :pokefun
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 May 2019, 06:15:54 pm

I see Nigel Farage has had a milkshake thrown over him now.


Does the idiot who chucked it seriously think that he's done the Remain cause any good? :rolleyes . The twerp has just harmed it.


That's a few more votes for democracy (The Brexit Party) on Thursday :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 20 May 2019, 08:40:34 pm
I can smell something going on here, the way the msm keep mentioning how well the brexit party are going to do. My concern is that they are building them up so that if they do not do fantastic they can then portray it as a failure. Just in the same way that parties exaggerate how bad they may do so that when they dont do so bad they can spin it as a win.   
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 20 May 2019, 08:57:02 pm
Vile Vince was on the telly earlier and they're already sort of adding on the votes The Green Party, Change UK and the Southern half of Labour get in with the Liberal Democrat's...Democrats!! :lol ...total vote share as a kind of 'Remain' block.

In that case The Brexit Party can add on 50% of the Labour vote (the Northern half) and most of the Conservative vote. That should put them on about 52%. Now where have I heard that figure before? :rolleyes .
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 20 May 2019, 11:34:52 pm
Quote
In that case The Brexit Party can add on 50% of the Labour vote (the Northern half) and most of the Conservative vote.
Well that'll be another 1% (combined). I expect the Tories and Labour to do very badly.
Anyway, the Brexit Party is being rumbled  :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 20 May 2019, 11:38:26 pm
Quote
I see Nigel Farage has had a milkshake thrown over him now.Does the idiot who chucked it seriously think that he's done the Remain cause any good?

You are right, but......

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 May 2019, 09:31:35 am

Anyway, the Brexit Party is being rumbled  :)


It's the MP's that have been rumbled, trying to thwart democracy.


Every time they slag Nigel off...a few more Brexit votes :)


Every time an idiot chucks a milkshake over him...a few more Brexit votes :)


Every time the voters get told that they've voted the wrong way....yep you've guessed it :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: ogri48 on 21 May 2019, 09:38:35 am
Yup. keep slagging off Nigel and those of us that are voting for him/ Brexit. Thats working out really well for you..... :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 21 May 2019, 09:45:29 am
I think just about everybody has already made up their minds.
Anyway, looking at the headlines it seems the Tory leadership contest is far more important.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 21 May 2019, 11:19:43 am
I think just about everybody has already made up their minds.

Correct - that happened in 2016
Only this time even more people want brexit to happen because some of those who voted to remain even though they still want to remain they can see that it is a democracy issue.These EU elections are a second referendum by proxy.
My fear is that after a massive drubbing by Nige the self serving politicians will be frightened into voting for Mays crap EU treaty in an attempt to keep their jobs by avoiding a general election - in which there would be a massive culling of mps being replaced by brexit party mps.I think the only way to save themselves and avoid a general election culling is to give Nige a knighthood and get him in the government.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 May 2019, 12:05:31 pm

Although he spoilt Nigel's day, I reckon the twat who chucked the milkshake probably did himself a favour by not drinking it.


In today's paper it says he's a Corbynite hipster that brews craft beer and hates Tories. What a surprise.


Judging by the pictures he doesn't look like he hates fast food outlets though :rolleyes
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 21 May 2019, 12:26:58 pm

Although he spoilt Nigel's day, I reckon the twat who chucked the milkshake probably did himself a favour by not drinking it.


In today's paper it says he's a Corbynite hipster that brews craft beer and hates Tories. What a surprise.


Judging by the pictures he doesn't look like he hates fast food outlets though :rolleyes
Now beer - I can agree with.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 May 2019, 01:13:25 pm


Although he spoilt Nigel's day, I reckon the twat who chucked the milkshake probably did himself a favour by not drinking it.


In today's paper it says he's a Corbynite hipster that brews craft beer and hates Tories. What a surprise.


Judging by the pictures he doesn't look like he hates fast food outlets though :rolleyes
Now beer - I can agree with.


I can't get into real ale. I have tried but I think I've been drinking lager for too long now :lol .


Even went on the tour of the St Austell brewery the other week. Gorgeous aroma, but it still hasn't won me over :\ . There's a big beer festival on all week here now so maybe I ought to get down there.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 21 May 2019, 02:07:22 pm


Although he spoilt Nigel's day, I reckon the twat who chucked the milkshake probably did himself a favour by not drinking it.


In today's paper it says he's a Corbynite hipster that brews craft beer and hates Tories. What a surprise.


Judging by the pictures he doesn't look like he hates fast food outlets though :rolleyes
Now beer - I can agree with.


I can't get into real ale. I have tried but I think I've been drinking lager for too long now :lol .


Even went on the tour of the St Austell brewery the other week. Gorgeous aroma, but it still hasn't won me over :\ . There's a big beer festival on all week here now so maybe I ought to get down there.
Ask them for advice - tell them about your larger drinking and that you want to see what all of this "real ale" thing is all about and they will be more than happy to point you into the direction an appropriate one to try. Go for a half or if it is a proper full blown festival - rather than a pub with a few extra guest beers on then you should be able to buy in 1/3rd glasses 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 21 May 2019, 02:53:51 pm
Lots of craft beer very pale IPA and lager/IPA crosses. Give them a try :)


You may not like the smokey stouts though.....
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 21 May 2019, 10:17:17 pm
Yep, the two left wingers think it's perfectly acceptable to assault someone with a different point of view from themselves.
Like I said at the beginning, this is going to be an interesting social experiment.
The only ones who really condone violence are the supposed liberals.

Odd, because when someone hit Jeremy Corbyn with an egg, I recall many right wingers saying things like "Next time make it a brick..."

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 21 May 2019, 10:35:39 pm
.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 21 May 2019, 11:51:32 pm
Maybe not as slippery as Jeremy Corbyn on The Andrew Marr Programme last Sunday though :lol .
What's the official party policy?. In or Out?. Second referendum or not? :\
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 22 May 2019, 10:13:04 am
Official party policy is Out, but on their type of deal. Any other type of deal/no deal = second referendum. You clearly weren't paying attention  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 22 May 2019, 11:11:39 am

Official party policy is Out, but on their type of deal. Any other type of deal/no deal = second referendum. You clearly weren't paying attention  :lol


So Remain then :rolleyes


Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 22 May 2019, 11:57:00 am
Getting a collection of leaflets now but found a good use for one of them.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 22 May 2019, 12:55:44 pm
Brexit and UKIP ones went straight in the recycling. Too hard for Andrex
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 22 May 2019, 01:06:00 pm
Brexit and UKIP ones went straight in the recycling. Too hard for Andrex
Actually our brexit party one would be the best for the loo as it is a uncoated plain paper and A4 but the ukip one is a glossy A5 - not good for the loo.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: darrsi on 22 May 2019, 01:48:57 pm
Getting a collection of leaflets now but found a good use for one of them.


Be alright for the bottom of a bird cage too. He’s full of shit anyway so a bit more won’t hurt.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 22 May 2019, 04:32:57 pm
Haven't even had a Conservative one. They've given up entirely!
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 22 May 2019, 05:27:48 pm
I predict that by 9pm May will no longer be PM. Either actually or technically.   
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 22 May 2019, 06:42:02 pm
My MP has that as a bet.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 24 May 2019, 12:36:45 pm

Both wrong. It's June 7th.





Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: steve 10562cc on 24 May 2019, 03:08:28 pm
If the bearded idiot follows Mays lead and goes we might just get two reasonable party leaders. (but I wont hold my breath)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 24 May 2019, 03:09:18 pm
ABB - Anybody But Boris  :eek
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 24 May 2019, 03:36:57 pm

ABB - Anybody But Boris  :eek


Jacob Rees-Mogg :woot
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 25 May 2019, 12:53:01 am
.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: darrsi on 25 May 2019, 11:14:22 am
Not entirely sure if Summer in May is a play on words, or just some Labour doofus being very stupid?
Maybe just Dianne Abbott mistakenly getting one of the 17 months of the year wrong.  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 May 2019, 11:57:16 am
81 year old peacefully and democratically campaigning for The Brexit Party has milkshake thrown over him...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1131606/brexit-former-paratrooper-attacked-brexit-rosette (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1131606/brexit-former-paratrooper-attacked-brexit-rosette)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 25 May 2019, 01:28:04 pm
81 year old peacefully and democratically campaigning for The Brexit Party has milkshake thrown over him...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1131606/brexit-former-paratrooper-attacked-brexit-rosette (https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1131606/brexit-former-paratrooper-attacked-brexit-rosette)

Yep the likes of VNA think its funny.
Tactics straight out of the natzi election rule book. 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 25 May 2019, 02:02:46 pm
Quote
Tactics straight out of the natzi election rule book.
Milkshakes vs Death threats and worse?

Anyway you've picked the wrong party
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 25 May 2019, 10:02:22 pm
81 year old peacefully and democratically campaigning for The Brexit Party has milkshake thrown over him...

Did he? Look at the pictures of Farage and the others who *were* hit by milkshakes and compare them to this guy and notice the complete difference in the splash patterns and the fact that this guy has clean trousers and shoes.

Was he really "attacked"? Or was this actually "friendly fire"...?

(And when Corbyn was hit by an egg and right-wingers were saying "I hope next time it's a brick", where was the outrage then...?)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 May 2019, 10:23:30 pm

81 year old peacefully and democratically campaigning for The Brexit Party has milkshake thrown over him...

Did he? Look at the pictures of Farage and the others who *were* hit by milkshakes and compare them to this guy and notice the complete difference in the splash patterns and the fact that this guy has clean trousers and shoes.

Was he really "attacked"? Or was this actually "friendly fire"...?


That's a new one Grahamm.


I thought we'd already heard all of the Remainers conspiracy theories regarding the whole Brexit episode, but that's definitely one of the best :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 25 May 2019, 10:56:49 pm
It's the Daily Express for Christ's sake. The old duffer probably spilt his tea and the Express made the rest up.


Anyway, here's the latest odds
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 25 May 2019, 11:56:53 pm

We get the results of the European Parliament Election tomorrow.


What are the latest odds on which party wins that in the UK? :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 26 May 2019, 01:02:50 am
I thought we'd already heard all of the Remainers conspiracy theories regarding the whole Brexit episode, but that's definitely one of the best
Here's a picture of Farage having been hit by a milkshake (which is a *liquid* that, surprisingly, tends to spread and run when it's thrown at someone instead of staying in discreet blobs...)

Compare the two images and tell us about this "conspiracy theory" from Remainers...  :rolleyes
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 10:18:18 am
Quote
That's a new one Grahamm.
So far no credible witnesses, no description of the attacker, and well, no nothing.  Seems a bit fishy.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 10:19:06 am
Some are calling this the milkshake spring. :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 10:21:08 am
 I love this.  Dominic Raab has thrown his hat into the Tory leadership ring.
He says he wants to leave the EU with a deal – just not his deal.
I mean what the fuck. :eek
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 10:23:23 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7L__n7XoAAgph0.jpg:large)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 May 2019, 11:09:49 am
Welcome back. You're just in time for the European Parliament election results :lol .

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 11:25:24 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7b7ef3W0AEJoYT.jpg)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 26 May 2019, 01:51:34 pm
Quote
Welcome back. You're just in time for the European Parliament election results .
The press appears to have lost interest  :rolleyes  It's all about the Tories (yet) again.

So we have a bunch of 'No Deal' candidates versus 'get a deal' ones.

No Deal will be voted down by Parliament again = 'No Confidence' motion = General Election
'Another Deal' will be voted down by Parliament again = Second Referendum

So basically, the Tories are just pissing about and putting off their inevitable demise.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 May 2019, 02:01:55 pm

Quote
Welcome back. You're just in time for the European Parliament election results .
The press appears to have lost interest  :rolleyes 


They're limited by law as to what they can report whilst the elections are still taking place elsewhere in the EU.


We should start to hear a lot more once all the polls finally close later this evening.


Good luck Nigel :thumbup .
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 26 May 2019, 03:31:19 pm
.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 03:44:25 pm
 He will talk about the NHS.  Nigel, man of the people, wants to privatise our Health Service.  He’s quite open about it.


Indeed, his finances are a bit of a mystery and he refuses to reveal any details.  He will not publish tax returns. 
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 03:47:36 pm
Lookin guid Nige :lol

(https://media.spiked-online.com/website/images/2019/05/20160552/nigel-farage-milkshaked-800x480.jpg)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 May 2019, 06:34:30 pm

It's always a sure sign that your argument is lost when you have to resort to throwing food or drink.


The milkshake bloke just confirmed what I already suspected about the Remainers ;) .


I'm not sure what was the bigger crime though, chucking it over Nigel or the fact that he paid over £5 for a cup of milk :eek . They must have seen him coming :lol (which admittedly is more than Nigels security did).
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 06:39:26 pm
 
Quote
It's always a sure sign that your argument is lost when you have to resort to throwing food or drink.
It’s a harmless way of letting fascists, racists, liars and bigots know that they are not welcome.
It also makes pompous, narcissistic wankers look stupid.  They hate the resultant images.

And of course it's fun.  :)
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 06:43:03 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7HOu8bX4AAlcrX.jpg)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 May 2019, 07:33:31 pm

Quote
It's always a sure sign that your argument is lost when you have to resort to throwing food or drink.
It’s a harmless way of letting fascists, racists, liars and bigots know that they are not welcome.
It also makes pompous, narcissistic wankers look stupid.  They hate the resultant images.

And of course it's fun.  :)


Harmless only for as long as the liquid is such.


It wasn't that long ago that there was a spate of acid attacks in this country.


It must be quite terrifying for someone that suddenly finds themselves soaked with an unknown substance after a stranger has lunged at them.


Not such 'fun' when you're the one on the receiving end.


No one should be throwing ANYTHING at ANYBODY whatever their political persuasion.

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 07:51:44 pm
 These people are not respectable politicians dedicated to serving their constituents or committed to the betterment of the country as a whole.
We are not talking of people of a political persuasion.
They are dishonest con-merchants, opportunistic, divisive, dangerous wankers.
Foc Nigel Farage.  Foc em.  He’s a cunt of a man.
 
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 26 May 2019, 08:02:12 pm
Quote
No one should be throwing ANYTHING at ANYBODY whatever their political persuasion.
I agree.


On the other hand a Brexit supporter murdered Remain MP Jo Cox
The soaked UKIP candidate has joked about raping a Labour MP.


A Remainer spoiling a suit with a milkshake is insignificant by comparison



Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD HOSTED BY VNA & MTREAD ABSOLUTE FILTH
Post by: steve 10562cc on 26 May 2019, 08:24:04 pm
Bit of a rename again
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 08:31:17 pm
Quote
Bit of a rename again
Call it what you want Steve.  It is, and always will be your thread.   You started it :D
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 08:33:34 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7QfTVTX4AY-2oa.jpg)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: steve 10562cc on 26 May 2019, 08:38:26 pm
I know, I regret starting it,  but on the bright side the longer it goes on the more idiotic you pair look with your rants and so called humour.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: ogri48 on 26 May 2019, 08:54:47 pm
These people are not respectable politicians dedicated to serving their constituents or committed to the betterment of the country as a whole.
We are not talking of people of a political persuasion.
They are dishonest con-merchants, opportunistic, divisive, dangerous wankers.
Foc Nigel Farage.  Foc em.  He’s a cunt of a man.

what about the old feller who was an ex para?
Thats the problem when anybody justifies such ridiculous acts. People use that justification to carry them on against anybody they see fit to warrant it. Like an 81 year old man peacefully expressing his views. Your man Corbyns 'kinder, gentler politics' no doubt. And trying to justify it by citing an MP who got murdered by a nut case, right wing or otherwise, speaks volumes too.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 26 May 2019, 09:02:30 pm
Quote
And trying to justify it by citing an MP who got murdered by a nut case, right wing or otherwise, speaks volumes too.
Agree, it does speak volumes. Thomas Mair was a right wing Brexit supporting terrorist inspired by the lies about immigration and Europe spouted by Farage and his like.
The 'para' was unsubstantiated fake news.
Show me a Remainer who committed violence or issued death threats. It's all one sided.
Acid milk shakes - don't make me laugh.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 09:27:54 pm
 
Quote
what about the old feller who was an ex para?
Smells a bit fishy that one.  Doesn’t add up.  Fake.
Quote
Thats the problem when anybody justifies such ridiculous acts. People use that justification to carry them on against anybody they see fit to warrant it.
Like the 19 year old British lassie whom you’d like to see have her throat cut?


We are talking milkshakes here Ogri.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 May 2019, 10:11:11 pm

Apparently the Farage milkshake was 'Banana & Salted caramel' flavour.


In retrospect I reckon Nigel was lucky. If the bloke had actually drunk any of it Farage would more than likely have been covered in vomit :crazy
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 26 May 2019, 10:23:27 pm
Quote
Apparently the Farage milkshake was 'Banana & Salted caramel' flavour.
Nice. :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 26 May 2019, 11:23:33 pm
Quote
In retrospect I reckon Nigel was lucky. If the bloke had actually drunk any of it Farage would more than likely have been covered in vomit

Like it  :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 May 2019, 11:23:55 pm

Quote
Apparently the Farage milkshake was 'Banana & Salted caramel' flavour.
Nice. :)


I'll take your word for it ;) .

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 26 May 2019, 11:32:18 pm
Well the regions are still declaring, but I'm predicting that due to proportional representation there will be more Remain MEPs than Leave ones. Especially when Labour commits to Remain...... which will be tomorrow :D


Thank foc it's not a First Past The Post system  :eek
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 26 May 2019, 11:47:16 pm

Especially when Labour commits to Remain...... which will be tomorrow :D 


I'll believe that when I see it :lol .















Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 26 May 2019, 11:48:09 pm
Well the regions are still declaring, but I'm predicting that there will be more Remain MEPs than Leave ones. 

Eh  :rolleyes -- is your name mtread Abbott
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 12:02:07 am
 UKIP, the victors last time round are finished. 



The BREXIT party, formed last week by Nigel, are the victors this time round.


The BREXIT party has no manifesto and only one policy.   It’s leader wants the NHS to cease.  The BREXIT party is a one man band.


What is clear, from these results, is that if you were to re-run the 2016 referendum, ie have a second EU referendum, REMAIN would win.


And of course, the reality is that tonight’s vote changes little.  Parliament will not allow a NO DEAL BREXIT.  The UK must REMAIN in at least a Customs Union in order to respect the legal document known as The Good Friday Agreement.  That is it changes little, other than that we may be witnessing the death of the Conservative Party. 



As for the BREXIT Party, with only one policy, come a general election it will nose dive, just as UKIP did.



What you see tonight is the beginning of the end.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 12:05:41 am
Quote
Eh  -- is your name mtread Abbott

Er no. I just understand how the d'Hondt system works. Do you?
There will be more Lib Dem + Green + SNP + Plaid Cymru + Labour MEPs than there are Brexit Party + UKIP ones.
I'm leaving the Tories out of the calculation as they are 50:50

The majority  UK representation in the EU Parliament will be pro Europe :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 12:27:45 am
The Brexit Party insisting it has a role in negotiating leaving the EU :lol
Fat chance, you have no representation in the UK Parliament.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 May 2019, 12:35:28 am

So a victorious night for Remain then.


Where is the celebration party taking place?. Hope the champagne lasts all night :lol




Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 12:38:04 am
Just a couple of Light Ales in the Hand and Racquet  ;)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 12:39:51 am
Just seen the Northwest result come in, and it's great for one very good reason  :) So off to bed.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 27 May 2019, 09:57:49 am

There will be more Lib Dem + Green + SNP + Plaid Cymru + Labour MEPs than there are Brexit Party + UKIP ones.
I'm leaving the Tories out of the calculation as they are 50:50

The majority  UK representation in the EU Parliament will be pro Europe :)
Here are the results so far for EU seats. Scotland are still to announce and so are NI
So lets look at that. Well done lib dem's they have to be congratulated on an honest campaign - came right out and said they want to cancel brexit it got them 15 seats. 

 labour trying to please both sides, no one knows what they want so you cant say people voted for them on a pro EU ticket 10 seats

 Greens are pro EU but people are not voting for them because of that - they are voting for the green issue. 7 seats
As you said yourself we will ignor the Cons 3 seats.
Snp are predicted to have 3 seats delivered to them by pro indy voters.
So the only party that you can truly say is pro EU and want to cancel brexit are LibDem 15 seats compared to Brexit Party 28 seats ( who campaigned on a WTO Brexit )
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 27 May 2019, 10:10:02 am
Lets even be fair and allow half of labour - after all they are trying to please both leave and remain =5. Lets even give half of the Cons 1 1/2. lets even give plaid 1.
 So that gives 22 1/2 remain vs 28 Leave. Voices in the remain camp call for a "confirmatory vote" . Well we have just had one and told them yet again its LEAVE
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 10:14:18 am
Quote
Greens are pro EU but people are not voting for them because of that - they are voting for the green issue
Nonsense. There you go, putting your spin on the outcome. Just coincidence that Labour won most of its seats in strong Remain areas?
So, not only will Remain have more MEPs than Leave, but they got a bigger share of the vote.
Second Referendum? Bring it on.  :D

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 27 May 2019, 10:22:40 am
Now let's try looking at that another way...

Using *your* calculation method:
The Brexit Party got less than a third of the total votes, 32% and UKIP got 3%, plus half of Conservative and Labour giving 46.5%

The Lib Dems, Greens, half of Labour and half of the Conservatives plus SNP, Change and Plaid means that Remain parties got 53.5%
There's your democratic confirmation, the will of the people has switched from Leave to Remain.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 10:42:45 am
As confirmed by the BBC  :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 27 May 2019, 11:20:56 am
What's more interesting to me is the increasing strength of anti-EU feeling across Europe generally. By the time Remain get a win, there'll be no more EU to remain in  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: celticdog on 27 May 2019, 12:14:04 pm
latest news- the brexit party have just released their new 'milkshake proof' uniform . . .
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 12:33:03 pm
Quote
Greens are pro EU but people are not voting for them because of that - they are voting for the green issue
That's exactly what Ann Widdecombe said. Are you dancing partners?  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 27 May 2019, 12:53:05 pm
Quote
Greens are pro EU but people are not voting for them because of that - they are voting for the green issue
That's exactly what Ann Widdecombe said. Are you dancing partners?  :lol
If you really wanted to remain you would vote Lib Dem otherwise you risk splitting the vote, so you wouldn't vote green for remain, you vote green for the green issue -who have gained momentum on the back of the recent protests.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 May 2019, 02:21:33 pm
There's your democratic confirmation, the will of the people has switched from Leave to Remain.
As clearly displayed by this results map of England and Wales :lol ...
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: agricola on 27 May 2019, 03:48:16 pm
There's your democratic confirmation, the will of the people has switched from Leave to Remain.
As clearly displayed by this results map of England and Wales :lol ...


Yes, the Re-Moaners can put whatever spin they like on the results, but the party winning thew biggest number of seats campaigned for Exit. Those parties campaigning for Remain won far fewer seats. Simples. You can overanaylise things as much as you like, but its another campaign in which you have finished second
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 27 May 2019, 04:52:18 pm
So what would the results be if this was general election
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 May 2019, 06:09:21 pm
This is the first election I've ever seen where the party that came second with almost half the seats of the winning one has still claimed outright victory :rolleyes
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 06:11:55 pm
Quote
latest news- the brexit party have just released their new 'milkshake proof' uniform . . .



(http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24678.0;attach=35336;image)




 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 06:13:27 pm
Quote
So what would the results be if this was general election
Simple, come a general election The Brexit Party will nose dive.  They have no policies and no manifesto.  They need to try and find 650 candidates.  That could be 650 candidates out on the street without any real organisation behind them, and 650 candidates popping up in the media no doubt contradicting each other over what their polices should be, because they haven’t sat down together and figured out what they stand for other than BREXIT.
 
Meanwhile the Tory party is literally tearing itself apart, perhaps almost to the point it becomes as irrelevant as UKIP and The BREXIT parties themselves, whilst Labour has the opportunity to speak out on behalf of the majority who now clearly want an end to all of this and sweep to power in a Landslide election.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 06:15:15 pm
 
Quote
This is the first election I've ever seen where the party that came second with almost half the seats of the winning one has still claimed outright victory :rolleyes

Aye and the party that won the most seats in this election claims that the EU is undemocratic.  I mean foc me! :lol
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: dazza on 27 May 2019, 06:26:12 pm
C’mon chaps, it’s bank holiday, you should be out riding not squabbling over politics.
Shame you couldn’t make it to Margate with us mtread.
We had a whip round and bought you a drink in your absence to show no hard feelings. :)
I didn’t know what flavour you liked wearing so I went with strawberry with a cream topping. :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 06:29:56 pm
Quote
C’mon chaps, it’s bank holiday,
Must be an English bank holiday.  Just back fae work.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 May 2019, 07:02:07 pm
whilst Labour has the opportunity to speak out on behalf of the majority who now clearly want an end to all of this and sweep to power in a Landslide election.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 07:08:16 pm
Quote
Shame you couldn’t make it to Margate with us mtread
Good one Dazza  :thumbup  But that colour would clash with my jacket.
Would have been there, but I'm now in Carlisle on the way to Remain Central.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: ogri48 on 27 May 2019, 07:17:10 pm
Quote
what about the old feller who was an ex para?
Smells a bit fishy that one.  Doesn’t add up.  Fake.
Quote
Thats the problem when anybody justifies such ridiculous acts. People use that justification to carry them on against anybody they see fit to warrant it.
Like the 19 year old British lassie whom you’d like to see have her throat cut?


We are talking milkshakes here Ogri.

If you could show some proof that the old feller getting milkshaked was fake that would be good. Or perhaps me posting anywhere on any forum that a 19 year old girl should have her throat cut?
I'll not hold me breath hey...
if your arguments are going to descend into denial and outright lies, how do you think anyone will take what you say seriously?
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 07:29:23 pm
Quote
If you could show some proof that the old feller getting milkshaked was fake
Um I think you'll find it works the other way round. Things have to be proven to be a fact. Basic concept of common law.
Just because the Daily Excess reported it, doesn't make it a fact.

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: ogri48 on 27 May 2019, 07:38:08 pm
I try really hard not to get involved in mud slinging and name calling on the old internet, because i'd much rather say something to someones face. But you are a patronising prick mtread, who constantly tries to take the high morale ground, and I'm done interacting with someone like that. I'll stick to the fazer thou threads, and you can stick to acting like everybody else here doesn't warrant a civil reply.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: agricola on 27 May 2019, 07:55:23 pm
I try really hard not to get involved in mud slinging and name calling on the old internet, because i'd much rather say something to someones face. But you are a patronising prick mtread, who constantly tries to take the high morale ground, and I'm done interacting with someone like that. I'll stick to the fazer thou threads, and you can stick to acting like everybody else here doesn't warrant a civil reply.


Its because they've lost the argument. They are ever more trivial, insulting, and arrogant. No doubt they'll now latch onto the LidDem bandwagon (the runners up, and a distant one). Yes, the LibDems, those who when last in any authority broke their manifesto pledge to abolish student loans, the pledge that got them into that position, without a second thought.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 07:58:51 pm
Quote
I try really hard not to get involved in mud slinging and name calling on the old interne
Obviously you don't. :rolleyes
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 08:03:11 pm
Quote
Its because they've lost the argument. They are ever more trivial, insulting, and arrogant.
Jesus Christ it's a just a disagreement over politics. Just like half the country is divided at the moment. (Some) Leavers just can't understand why anybody should dare to disagree with them. Lighten up you two.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 08:04:43 pm
Quote
If you could show some proof that the old feller getting milkshaked was fake that would be good.
Yes I feel mtread is correct.  It looks like dirty tricks.  A set up.  Fake news. 

Quote
Or perhaps me posting anywhere on any forum that a 19 year old girl should have her throat cut?
Oh I am sorry, you just wanted her murdered, you didn't state how the act should be carried out.  I apologise for that, but you did express support for the summary execution of a pregnant teenage girl. 

So yes I do feel there is a bit of a difference between say 'milkshaking' an extremist :) , and murdering pregnant teenagers :eek
Quote
But you are a patronising prick mtread, who constantly tries to take the high morale ground, and I'm done interacting with someone like that.
Chill out dude.  Seriously ;)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 08:07:49 pm
 
Quote
Its because they've lost the argument.

Really! :lol :lol :lol
 
Quote
(Some) Leavers just can't understand why anybody should dare to disagree with them.

Not to mention the vast majority of leavers have no real clue as to why they want to leave in the first place.
 
BREXIT is the UK’s Trump moment – and it’s quite a moment. :eek
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 27 May 2019, 08:44:04 pm
Otoh, I think Remainers don't really know what it is they are campaigning to be a part of. And it probably won't be there anymore by the time they win a Remain vote anyway, if they do. The EU we think we know (and the EU themselves have consistently told us we don't understand what they are about) is going to dissolve away. By which time, it might actually be something worth remaining a part of  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 27 May 2019, 08:44:22 pm

Not to mention the vast majority of leavers have no real clue as to why they want to leave in the first place.
 
BREXIT is the UK’s Trump moment – and it’s quite a moment. :eek
 
The vast majority of leavers have just voted to leave on WTO rules.Trump-- the scotts are happy to insult him with one hand but even happier to take his golf course money with the other. 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 27 May 2019, 08:46:16 pm
As clearly displayed by this results map of England and Wales :lol ...

Now try showing us one weighted by population (you know, the *number* of people who voted) instead of area, because, surprisingly, large sections of empty space don't actually vote...  :rolleyes
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 08:52:56 pm
Quote
The vast majority of leavers have just voted to leave on WTO rules.
How do you figure that?  Which is, in any case, different from actually knwoing why you want to leave.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 May 2019, 09:02:46 pm

Would have been there, but I'm now in Carlisle on the way to Remain Central.


Every time Carlisle is mentioned I can almost smell those biscuits cooking :b
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 27 May 2019, 09:24:50 pm
As clearly displayed by this results map of England and Wales :lol ...

Now try showing us one weighted by population (you know, the *number* of people who voted) instead of area, because, surprisingly, large sections of empty space don't actually vote...  :rolleyes
Sorted :thumbup ...

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 27 May 2019, 09:29:22 pm
Quote
The vast majority of leavers have just voted to leave on WTO rules.
How do you figure that?  Which is, in any case, different from actually knwoing why you want to leave.

The leavers who voted for the Brexit party did so knowing that the brexit party have said that voting for them is a vote to leave on WTO rules. I would not expect you to know that because you and your side kick are too busy mutually masturbating each other over your side kicks tommy robbo thread. 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 27 May 2019, 09:31:11 pm

Would have been there, but I'm now in Carlisle on the way to Remain Central.


Every time Carlisle is mentioned I can almost smell those biscuits cooking :b


Well I'm there, and I can smell foc-all  :lol

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 09:54:35 pm
 
Quote
The leavers who voted for the Brexit party did so knowing that the brexit party have said that voting for them is a vote to leave on WTO rules.

No, what they voted for is this;


We have not left the EU.   The EU is a democratic union.  Therefore, as full current members of the EU we are duty bound to take part in the EU elections.


It is an election to elect your representatives in the EU parliament.  So, what the people who have voted for Nigel’s one man band lucky dip party have done is to elect representatives who oppose the existence of the democratic institution called the European Union.  Which really when you think about it is a bit silly.


The BREXIT party has no real influence whatsoever as to whether the UK leaves the EU or not, or if it leaves with a deal or without a deal.  That is a matter for the UK parliament.


And as I have pointed out, seeing as The BREXIT Party has only two policies.


1.       To leave the EU
2.       To privatise the NHS
 
Well, based on that they have two chances of making any impression in a general election.


1.       None
2.       Fuck all.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Frosties on 27 May 2019, 10:06:25 pm
I try really hard not to get involved in mud slinging and name calling on the old internet, because i'd much rather say something to someones face. But you are a patronising prick mtread, who constantly tries to take the high morale ground, and I'm done interacting with someone like that. I'll stick to the fazer thou threads, and you can stick to acting like everybody else here doesn't warrant a civil reply.


By your side on this one fella - you can VNA to the same group as Mtread - respect other views ffs!
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 10:10:05 pm
Quote
By your side on this one fella - you can VNA to the same group as Mtread - respect other views ffs!
Quote
But you are a patronising prick mtread
:lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 27 May 2019, 11:03:41 pm
Now try showing us one weighted by population (you know, the *number* of people who voted) instead of area, because, surprisingly, large sections of empty space don't actually vote...  :rolleyes
Sorted :thumbup ...

Err, no, that just shows areas, not the number of people.

Whilst you're looking for that, here's some interesting figures on the number of votes for you...

The Brexit Party - 5,248,533
UKIP -                      554,463

Total - 5,802,996


Lib Dems -  3,367,284
Greens    -  2,023,380
SNP -             594,553
Plaid Cymru - 163,928
Change UK  - 571,846

Total - 6,720,991


Oh and PS, the number of people who signed the petition Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU - 6,085,326

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 11:15:10 pm
I respect everybody's views. I just don't happen to agree with them. And I can do that without actually calling them pricks :lol
Carlisle - I smell no biscuits either. Mind you in a Premier Inn all I can smell is harpic :)


So, the country is split (more or less) in half between hard Brexit and hard Remain. How do we get out of this mess?
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 11:26:02 pm
Quote
So, the country is split (more or less) in half between hard Brexit and hard Remain. How do we get out of this mess?
I’m gonna disagree with you, but please don’t call me a prick. :lol


The United Kingdom is a Union.  It is the Union of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.  There are four countries in this Union.  Two, England and Wales, appear to perhaps (maybe no longer) have a majority of people who want to leave the EU.  Two countries, Scotland and Northern Ireland, clearly do not wish to leave the EU.


If you want to protect this Union, which many clearly feel is their country, then it is clear – cancel article 50.
   
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 11:30:32 pm
 
Quote
Oh and PS, the number of people who signed the petition Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU - 6,085,326


Now 6,085,331 :lol


So the biggest petition in the history of the UK
The response from the government;


Quote
This Government will not revoke Article 50. We will honour the result of the 2016 referendum and work with Parliament to deliver a deal that ensures we leave the European Union.


In other words - fuck off!


Seems to be working well for them.

 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 27 May 2019, 11:36:22 pm
But...... in the international standard ISO list of 'countries' Northern Ireland is described as a 'province' not a 'country'. Probably so as not to upset Eire.
There I go, being a 'patronising prick' yet again :lol


On the other hand, yes Revoke Article 50, and think about leaving the EU in another 40 years time. You know it makes sense  :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 27 May 2019, 11:53:38 pm
Quote
But...... in the international standard ISO list of 'countries' Northern Ireland is described as a 'province' not a 'country'. Probably so as not to upset Eire.
There I go, being a 'patronising prick' yet again ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url])


Pompous twat? :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: john roche on 27 May 2019, 11:56:40 pm

Quote
On the other hand, yes Revoke Article 50, and think about leaving the EU in another 40 years time. You know it makes sense 
Good plan, I'll be long dead by then.  :lol 


cheers


John
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 08:41:45 am
Err, no, that just shows areas, not the number of people.

Yes I was aware of that Grahamm ;) . I just liked the look of it and knew that you wouldn't :lol .
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 09:46:39 am

Carlisle - I smell no biscuits either.
Bank holiday Monday ;) .

Walking around the castle last year it was all you could smell. Lovely. really whets the appetite for lunch :b . Apparently the locals can identify what type of biscuit the McVities factory is producing each day just from the odour wafting across the town :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Dynspud on 28 May 2019, 10:43:09 am
Same thing here in Cwmbran YamFazFan, with the Burton's Biscuits Factory.
Jammy Dodger production day smells the best  :b
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 28 May 2019, 12:17:43 pm
Biscuit Means Biscuit!
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 12:22:28 pm
Biscuit Means Biscuit!
:lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 12:33:40 pm
Oh and PS, the number of people who signed the petition Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU - 6,085,326
'The number of people who signed the petition'...that's a bold claim claim given the findings of exactly who, or rather what, has 'voted', and how many times, in previous online petitions :lol .
I'll stick to the only count that truly matters thanks Grahamm. The election system where only real, registered and eligible voters participate :thumbup .
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 12:45:21 pm
Both sides of the Leave/Remain argument can dance on the head of a pin all day counting up and adding on other parties and bits and pieces here, there, and everywhere in order to bolster their total count, but at the end of the day the undeniable fact is that in an In/Out referendum situation the electorate is split more or less 50/50 either way just as it was in 2016 when Leave won by a narrow margin.

Anybody who tries to claim that either side has got a significant lead over the other or that 'The country has changed it's mind' is ...well I refer to the new thread title :\
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 28 May 2019, 02:03:41 pm
Agree completely. That's why it's still a mess. The trouble with referendums is that unless the majority is a big one, the 'problem' continues. The Proportional Representation referendum in 2011 was 32% Yes and 68% No, and we all stopped arguing about that straight away.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 May 2019, 06:10:18 pm
 
Quote
The trouble with referendums is that unless the majority is a big one, the 'problem' continues.


The other fact is that this was a referendum offered to the people in order to try and resolve matters internal to the Tory party. 



It was slipped into a manifesto safe in the knowledge that it would not actually have to be put to the people, and on the basis, well if it did actually have to be offered - nobody in reality would be daft enough to vote to leave the EU. 



David Cameron made perhaps the biggest blunder in UK political history.


Meanwhile we are still stuck.  The current parliament will not allow a NO DEAL BREXIT.  The Good Friday Agreement, in which peace in Northern Ireland and across the UK depends, requires at least a full customs union to be in place.  That is a legal and moral commitment.


Two out of four countries in our union voted to REMAIN in the EU.


And never mind that our economy and manufacturing jobs depend on EU membership.


We really have no choice.  We need to move on.  It is time to cancel article 50.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 06:34:02 pm

We really have no choice.  We need to move on.  It is time to cancel article 50.


You know full well that's not going to happen. There wouldn't be a Parliamentary majority for it. Nowhere near.


A second referendum would be more likely.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: vinnyb on 28 May 2019, 07:05:57 pm
Now try showing us one weighted by population (you know, the *number* of people who voted) instead of area, because, surprisingly, large sections of empty space don't actually vote...  :rolleyes
Sorted :thumbup ...

Err, no, that just shows areas, not the number of people.

Whilst you're looking for that, here's some interesting figures on the number of votes for you...

The Brexit Party - 5,248,533
UKIP -                      554,463

Total - 5,802,996


Lib Dems -  3,367,284
Greens    -  2,023,380
SNP -             594,553
Plaid Cymru - 163,928
Change UK  - 571,846

Total - 6,720,991


Oh and PS, the number of people who signed the petition Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU - 6,085,326

  Minus the Green vote, which could be as much down to David Attenborough and the fact that the environmental crisis is never out of the news at the moment, as it is Brexit and it's 4,697,611 against 5,802,996.
 All anyone can do is speculate on the reasons people voted the way they did, and even then that's only the third who could be arsed to vote at all.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 28 May 2019, 07:15:21 pm
Quote
Two out of four countries in our union voted to REMAIN in the EU.
One country and one province  ;)
Quote
David Cameron made perhaps the biggest blunder in UK political history.
I think May comes a close second. If, straight after the referendum, she had ignored her hard Brexit ERG and approached Labour to agree to go to the EU for a soft Brexit, (rightly or wrongly) we'd be out by now. The parliamentary majority would be there, despite the hard Brexiteers or Remainers. But of course her pride /obstinacy /self interest meant she wouldn't. Her tactics were stupid. That's how history will judge her.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 May 2019, 07:19:07 pm
 Y
Quote
ou know full well that's not going to happen. There wouldn't be a Parliamentary majority for it. Nowhere near.

The likely hood is Labour will now become a REMAIN party.  Even the minority who are genuinely for BREXIT within the Labour party will accept the REMAIN position as few, or none, of that minority want to see a disastrous NO DEAL BREXIT.


The likely hood is that we will probably get a hard or NO DEAL BREXIT PM.


There are some decent Tories who are prepared to put country before party.  They will vote down NO DEAL, and if they feel the Union is at risk they will vote down article 50.


It may not happen, but the stakes are higher and more desperate than ever now, so there is a real possibility that article 50 will be cancelled.


And do not forget that the outcome of the EU elections is Labour becoming a REMAIN party.


Thanks Nige :D
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 28 May 2019, 07:20:53 pm
Quote
  Minus the Green vote, which could be as much down to David Attenborough and the fact that the environmental crisis is never out of the news at the moment, as it is Brexit and it's 4,697,611 against 5,802,996.
Are you making this up  :lol The Green Party have been absolutely clear they are a Remain Party since the beginning.
A lot of us Remainers voted tactically between Lib Dems and Green to maximise the number of MEPs for the two parties.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 May 2019, 07:22:04 pm
 
Quote
One country and one province  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/file:///C:/Users/garet/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/02/clip_image001.gif[/url])

 
Stop it you pompous twat. :lol
Quote
I think May comes a close second. If, straight after the referendum, she had ignored her hard Brexit ERG and approached Labour to agree to go to the EU for a soft Brexit, (rightly or wrongly) we'd be out by now. The parliamentary majority would be there, despite the hard Brexiteers or Remainers. But of course her pride /obstinacy /self interest meant she wouldn't. Her tactics were stupid. That's how history will judge her.

Totally agree.  She is totally unsuited to leadership.  You cannot act as dictator within a minority administration.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 May 2019, 07:23:43 pm
Quote
Are you making this up  ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/lol.gif[/url]) The Green Party have been absolutely clear they are a Remain Party since the beginning.

 Indeed.  You would not vote Green if you fundamentally opposed the EU.  The Green Party is a pro EU party – no question.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 May 2019, 07:25:07 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7rHJE8XsAEGct-.jpg)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 28 May 2019, 07:31:07 pm
I wish to announce......... that I will not be standing as a candidate for leader of the Conservative Party.


 :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: slimwilly on 28 May 2019, 07:36:33 pm
The sooner we are out the better, do what the voters voted for as the result for the referendum.
Even the no deal will be a result then the country can get on rebuilding Great Britain,,and build a wall between Scotland and England again.


Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 07:53:38 pm


And do not forget that the outcome of the EU elections is Labour becoming a REMAIN party.


Thanks Nige :D


...and their subsequent loss of over 5 million Labour voters who voted Leave in the EU referendum.


Yep thanks Nige :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 08:23:01 pm

Indeed.  You would not vote Green if you fundamentally opposed the EU.  The Green Party is a pro EU party – no question.


25% of Green Party voters opted for Leave in the 2016 EU referendum apparently ;)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: vinnyb on 28 May 2019, 08:34:04 pm

Indeed.  You would not vote Green if you fundamentally opposed the EU.  The Green Party is a pro EU party – no question.


25% of Green Party voters opted for Leave in the 2016 EU referendum apparently ;)

That's obviously a big fat lie. It's a well known fact (Known by at least 2 people) that every single person who voted Green, only voted for them because they are anti Brexit, they don't actually give a toss about the environment and the big move to Green parties throughout Europe is entirely Brexit related too by the way. ;)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 08:41:45 pm
Just a couple of Light Ales in the Hand and Racquet  ;)
That's a positive blow-out compared with the 3 steaming hot mugs of chicory essence No Change UK shared leaning up against Fred's Pie Stall in the market square ;)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 May 2019, 09:40:27 pm
Harley Davidson looking for a European manufactuering base.
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/)

But of course like a great many companies one country they will not be considering right now is the UK.
BREXIT will destroy manufactering in the UK.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 28 May 2019, 10:14:32 pm
Err, no, that just shows areas, not the number of people.

Yes I was aware of that Grahamm ;) . I just liked the look of it and knew that you wouldn't :lol .

I don't give a damn about the "look" of it. It just shows nothing helpful or useful to back up your claims.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 28 May 2019, 10:18:31 pm
Oh and PS, the number of people who signed the petition Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU - 6,085,326
'The number of people who signed the petition'...that's a bold claim claim given the findings of exactly who, or rather what, has 'voted', and how many times, in previous online petitions

Ah, yes, the Leave voters who were *so* confident in their "victory" that they had to try to sabotage the petition.

Which is why the Petition Site put in place robust methods to ensure that fake votes and bots and invalid foreign vote etc etc were screened out.

By the way, remind us how many people signed the "Leave" petition.

Quote
I'll stick to the only count that truly matters thanks Grahamm. The election system where only real, registered and eligible voters participate

Yeah, about that... UK government may face court action after EU citizens denied vote  (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/eu-citizens-denied-vote-european-election-polling-booths-admin-errors)

Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 28 May 2019, 10:21:51 pm
  Minus the Green vote, which could be as much down to David Attenborough and the fact that the environmental crisis is never out of the news at the moment, as it is Brexit and it's 4,697,611 against 5,802,996.

Err, WTF? The Green Party has been in favour of Remain from the start!!
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 28 May 2019, 10:23:21 pm
I wish to announce......... that I will not be standing as a candidate for leader of the Conservative Party.

I'm not standing and neither is my wife!
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 10:31:07 pm


By the way, remind us how many people signed the "Leave" petition.


As already indicated I've no confidence in petitions, only official elections :thumbup
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 10:43:14 pm


Quote
I'll stick to the only count that truly matters thanks Grahamm. The election system where only real, registered and eligible voters participate

Yeah, about that... UK government may face court action after EU citizens denied vote  (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/eu-citizens-denied-vote-european-election-polling-booths-admin-errors)


If there has been an injustice regarding voter  eligibility then I sincerely hope that it's corrected. I guess we'll just have to wait and see :) .


It doesn't shake my faith in the democratic system though Grahamm. Does it you?.


Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 10:51:07 pm


Err, WTF? The Green Party has been in favour of Remain from the start!!


Very true of the party, but not all of their voters. As mentioned previously, 25% voted 'Leave' in the 2016 EU referendum.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 28 May 2019, 10:57:24 pm


Quote
I'll stick to the only count that truly matters thanks Grahamm. The election system where only real, registered and eligible voters participate

Yeah, about that... UK government may face court action after EU citizens denied vote  (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/eu-citizens-denied-vote-european-election-polling-booths-admin-errors)

If there has been an injustice regarding voter  eligibility then I sincerely hope that it's corrected. I guess we'll just have to wait and see :) .
It doesn't shake my faith in the democratic system though Grahamm. Does it you?.

I heard this story this morning on the radio and it was a Polish caller and I understood that it was EU nationals wanting to vote for parties in their own country but were just wanting to do it from this one. The caller went on to explain that they made a few calls to Poland and got it all sorted.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 28 May 2019, 11:12:02 pm
Can I just post this again;
Harley Davidson looking for a European manufactuering base.
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/)

But of course like a great many companies one country they will not be considering right now is the UK.
BREXIT will destroy manufactering in the UK.

Why are people so determined to wreck our economy.  Why are so many ordinary people in England and Wales desperate to be poorer?
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Frosties on 28 May 2019, 11:15:07 pm
I respect everybody's views. I just don't happen to agree with them. And I can do that without actually calling them pricks :lol
Carlisle - I smell no biscuits either. Mind you in a Premier Inn all I can smell is harpic :)


So, the country is split (more or less) in half between hard Brexit and hard Remain. How do we get out of this mess?


Implying that someone is a prick on a face to face basis is still grounds for a fucking slap in my book - but you'd avoid that wouldn't you....
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 28 May 2019, 11:31:13 pm
Quote
Implying that someone is a prick on a face to face basis is still grounds for a fucking slap in my book - but you'd avoid that wouldn't you....
You clearly don't understand. I don't call anybody a prick, unless I know them very well  :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 28 May 2019, 11:37:51 pm
Quote
I heard this story this morning on the radio and it was a Polish caller and I understood that it was EU nationals wanting to vote for parties in their own country but were just wanting to do it from this one. The caller went on to explain that they made a few calls to Poland and got it all sorted.
I think you're right, it was for voting in their own country, but not sure they all could get it resolved with 'a few calls'. What's clear was that there was a cock up due to the short notice.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 28 May 2019, 11:47:49 pm
Are you heading up to Scotland mtread?.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 28 May 2019, 11:48:26 pm
Quote
I heard this story this morning on the radio and it was a Polish caller and I understood that it was EU nationals wanting to vote for parties in their own country but were just wanting to do it from this one. The caller went on to explain that they made a few calls to Poland and got it all sorted.
I think you're right, it was for voting in their own country, but not sure they all could get it resolved with 'a few calls'. What's clear was that there was a cock up due to the short notice.
it is being portrayed that they are being prevented to vote for one of the remain parties when they were not even trying to vote for any uk party.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 29 May 2019, 11:34:46 am
Very true of the party, but not all of their voters. As mentioned previously, 25% voted 'Leave' in the 2016 EU referendum.

So what? How someone voted previously doesn't mean that they will vote the same way next time (unless you're a rabid "my Party right or wrong" supporter).
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 29 May 2019, 11:49:59 am
Can I just post this again;
Harley Davidson looking for a European manufactuering base.
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/)

But of course like a great many companies one country they will not be considering right now is the UK.



Thank foc for that  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: steve 10562cc on 29 May 2019, 01:07:48 pm
I'm with you there Hedgetrimmer over priced crap
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 May 2019, 03:25:55 pm

Very true of the party, but not all of their voters. As mentioned previously, 25% voted 'Leave' in the 2016 EU referendum.

So what? How someone voted previously doesn't mean that they will vote the same way next time (unless you're a rabid "my Party right or wrong" supporter).


And you don't know that they have changed their minds either.


However when you were adding up the various parties EU Parliament election votes into Remain V Leave totals the other day, you'd put every single Green voter into 'Remain' :rolleyes

Oh and apparently around 30% of Liberal Democrat supporters voted Leave in 2016, but you've put 100% of them in your 'Remain' tally too :\
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 May 2019, 04:34:50 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA on 28 May 2019, 11:12:02 PM
 
    Can I just post this again;
    Harley Davidson looking for a European manufactuering base.
    https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/)
 
    But of course like a great many companies one country they will not be considering right now is the UK.
Quote
Thank foc for that  :lol


 
Quote
I'm with you there Hedgetrimmer over priced crap


 
I agree.  I have no interest in Harley Davidsons.  But I would quite happily see them manufactured here for the UK and Euro market. 



You are talking quality well paid jobs.


But the reality is Harley Davidson will not consider the UK as a manufacturing base for even a nono second. 



Nissan has cancelled the UK production of the X-Trail in the UK.  Honda is moving out lock, stop and barrel.  Schaeffler are moving out.  Michelin are moving out.  There is now a growing list of companies moving part or all of their production out of the UK.


The priority for these manufactures is to access the EU single market.  Even your darling economist Professor Minford, in his frankly flawed positive analysis of a NO DEAL BREXIT, admits that UK manufacturing will be all but wiped out.


I am, and continue to be, at a complete and total loss as to why any ordinary person in the UK would wish the UK to leave the EU and the single market.


We will become poorer outside the EU.

 
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 29 May 2019, 05:09:15 pm

Very true of the party, but not all of their voters. As mentioned previously, 25% voted 'Leave' in the 2016 EU referendum.

So what? How someone voted previously doesn't mean that they will vote the same way next time (unless you're a rabid "my Party right or wrong" supporter).


And you don't know that they have changed their minds either.


However when you were adding up the various parties EU Parliament election votes into Remain V Leave totals the other day, you'd put every single Green voter into 'Remain' :rolleyes

Oh and apparently around 30% of Liberal Democrat supporters voted Leave in 2016, but you've put 100% of them in your 'Remain' tally too :\
 
Also there is another 3.6 million votes that you can remove from the remain tally.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 29 May 2019, 05:19:43 pm
We will become poorer outside the EU.


Never mind, it'll be a good bit of character building for you  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 29 May 2019, 06:27:33 pm
Quote
Are you heading up to Scotland mtread?.
Well, we're not all Rob Roys  ;)
In other news, I see the Tory leadership fight has kicked off :lurk They're all stabbing each other in the back?
Who's your Least Worst candidate? Mine's Jeremy Hunt. He's slightly less obnoxious than most of the others
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 29 May 2019, 07:00:59 pm
Well
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 29 May 2019, 07:33:37 pm
Quote
  • Jeremy Hunt looks the most like a prime minister.     
  • [/l][/l]
He's also looked more like a Foreign Secretary....... than his predecessor
[/list]
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 29 May 2019, 07:41:35 pm
Quote
25% of Green Party voters opted for Leave in the 2016 EU referendum apparently
Where did you get that figure from? The one I've seen says 20%, and that's YouGov which is usually pretty reliable.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted)
Mind you, it also gives the UKIP voters who voted Remain as 5% :eek They obviously didn't take their medication that day :)
The trouble is, both figures were obtained by sampling ie polling, and we all know how accurate that is. YouGov predicted a 4% lead for Remain on the eve of the referendum.
It's also comparing how people voted in the 2016 referendum with which party they voted for in the 2015 election. And as we all know, people can change their minds over time  :pokefun
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 May 2019, 08:08:26 pm
Quote
25% of Green Party voters opted for Leave in the 2016 EU referendum apparently
Where did you get that figure from? The one I've seen says 20%, and that's YouGov which is usually pretty reliable.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted)

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 May 2019, 08:16:02 pm
Quote
Are you heading up to Scotland mtread?.
Well, we're not all Rob Roys  ;)
:lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 29 May 2019, 08:19:15 pm

In other news, I see the Tory leadership fight has kicked off :lurk They're all stabbing each other in the back?
Who's your Least Worst candidate? Mine's Jeremy Hunt. He's slightly less obnoxious than most of the others
Hancock ;)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: agricola on 29 May 2019, 09:12:26 pm
Quote
Quote from: VNA on 28 May 2019, 11:12:02 PM
 
    Can I just post this again;
    Harley Davidson looking for a European manufactuering base.
    https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/may/harley-davidson-build-europe/)
 
    But of course like a great many companies one country they will not be considering right now is the UK.
Quote
Thank foc for that  :lol


 
Quote
I'm with you there Hedgetrimmer over priced crap


 
I agree.  I have no interest in Harley Davidsons.  But I would quite happily see them manufactured here for the UK and Euro market. 



You are talking quality well paid jobs.


But the reality is Harley Davidson will not consider the UK as a manufacturing base for even a nono second. 



Nissan has cancelled the UK production of the X-Trail in the UK.  Honda is moving out lock, stop and barrel.  Schaeffler are moving out.  Michelin are moving out.  There is now a growing list of companies moving part or all of their production out of the UK.


The priority for these manufactures is to access the EU single market.  Even your darling economist Professor Minford, in his frankly flawed positive analysis of a NO DEAL BREXIT, admits that UK manufacturing will be all but wiped out.


I am, and continue to be, at a complete and total loss as to why any ordinary person in the UK would wish the UK to leave the EU and the single market.


We will become poorer outside the EU.


You appear to suggest that we have as a nation, and as individuals, somehow become richer as a direct result of EU membership, that out manufacturing blossomed and grew during our membership. I see little evidence of that. Our Councils/local authorities are severely cash strapped, the NHS is chronically underfunded, the roads have all been carpet bombed with no hope of quality repairs, some people cant get to see a GP without a 2 week wait, we cant build our own power stations without funding/materials/labour/expertise from abroad, the streets are overrun by criminal gangs with no hope of apprehending many of them (and they know it), our schools churn out people unfit for the world of work cos they cant read or write, let alone string a sentence together. Our political systems are collapsing due to lack of confidence, the previously nationalised industries fleece money from us and dont invest to provide future security of supplies. During your so called golden period of membership, I was made redundant 4 times as companies shifted the work overseas, or as in one case, the EU created an internal market which made the product we recycled worth more as scrap.


Our membership of the EU has not been a Golden Period of British history
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 29 May 2019, 10:46:21 pm
Quote
Hancock

 :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 29 May 2019, 10:52:49 pm
Quote
Our Councils/local authorities are severely cash strapped, the NHS is chronically underfunded, the roads have all been carpet bombed with no hope of quality repairs, some people cant get to see a GP without a 2 week wait, we cant build our own power stations without funding/materials/labour/expertise from abroad, the streets are overrun by criminal gangs with no hope of apprehending many of them (and they know it), our schools churn out people unfit for the world of work cos they cant read or write, let alone string a sentence together.
Nothing to do with the EU. Deliberate underfunding by Tory government imposed austerity,  following collapse of unregulated banking system. For which we are all still paying, unless you are rich enough to avoid.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 29 May 2019, 11:02:23 pm
Quote
Our Councils/local authorities are severely cash strapped, the NHS is chronically underfunded, the roads have all been carpet bombed with no hope of quality repairs, some people cant get to see a GP without a 2 week wait, we cant build our own power stations without funding/materials/labour/expertise from abroad, the streets are overrun by criminal gangs with no hope of apprehending many of them (and they know it), our schools churn out people unfit for the world of work cos they cant read or write, let alone string a sentence together.
Nothing to do with the EU. Deliberate underfunding by Tory government imposed austerity,  following collapse of the labour party's unregulated banking system. For which we are all still paying, unless you are rich enough to avoid.
Fixed it for you.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 May 2019, 11:12:51 pm
 
Quote
Our membership of the EU has not been a Golden Period of British history
That is not what I said.  And yes you are correct, we have suffered decades of manufacturing decline though decades of neo liberal politics.
Quote
Our Councils/local authorities are severely cash strapped,
They lost massive amounts of income and assets due to Tory polices.  Councils were forced to sell their housing stocks for example.  Millions of people are now stuck with massive mortgages or paying rip off rents.
 
Quote
the NHS is chronically underfunded
Over the last few decades there has been tax after tax cut for the well off, whilst taxes have increased overall for ordinary working people.  We have financed our infrastructure with private money and ended up paying for often substandard civil projects several times over.  We have been absolutely screwed on endless infrastructure projects. 
Quote
we cant build our own power stations without funding/materials/labour/expertise from abroad,
Again, the Tories choose to privatise our utilities allowing most of them to fall in to foreign ownership who take the profit out of the country.  We choose, not can’t, not to build our own utilities but to have other countries finance, build and take the profit.   Your rich Tory masters are investing their own money in the companies now building our infrastructure.  They also look to those companies for directorships and consultancy work once they have left parliament.


The Tories will not peruse the companies that they are investing in for the billions upon billions upon billions of tax that they are not paying to the exchequer.  It’s not in their interest.  They don’t need the NHS, and boy would they love to privatise it so they could make even more money from your misery.


At every turn New Labour and the Tories have ripped you off.  This is why people are angry, furious, and rightly so. 



But the EU did none of this to us.  Our woes are as a direct result of frankly discreetly corrupt and personally greedy right-wing politicians that we have suffered for decades now.


As you are probably aware I am keen to see Scotland become an independent nation.  It’s not out of some miss-guided dumb rose tinted patriotic stupid tartan nationalism.  I don’t care for that kinda shite.  It’s political.  A lot of us in Scotland understand what has been happening, and we understand why and how we have been screwed.  And the simple fact is England doesn’t get it, you show no sign of ever getting it, we therefore see no future for us in the United Kingdom.


The filthy rich bastards like Rees Mogg, Johnston, Nigel Farage are gonna screw you all again.  They are gonna get rich off the back of BREXIT whilst we all get screwed.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 29 May 2019, 11:13:56 pm
Quote
Fixed it for you.
New Labour = Tories.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 29 May 2019, 11:14:58 pm
Not denying it. But the imposed austerity and dismantling of the state,  is all Tory. Something they were delighted to have an excuse for.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 29 May 2019, 11:34:20 pm
Not denying it. But the imposed austerity and dismantling of the state,  is all Tory. Something they were delighted to have an excuse for.
What gets me is that you and your little red book waving mate think that all brexit supporters are also Conservative supporters, you constantly attack the conservatives - you will garner no argument from me with that tact. Yet you will constantly defend labours record which is far from perfect either. All governments (so far ) are self serving self and party first with their snouts in the trough and by leaving the EU and cutting out that whole layer of politicians we are making the trough shorter.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 29 May 2019, 11:51:33 pm
Well I'm fairly certain he's SNP and I tend to vote Green or Lib Dem. So I think you've missed your target.
No idea how others vote. We just hate the Tories  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 May 2019, 12:28:42 am
Quote
Well I'm fairly certain he's SNP
No I am not a direct member of any politcal party.  I am an affliated member of The Labour party.
I am always, firstly, interested in candidates, then secondly party manifestos.
I however have never, and never ever will, vote for a Tory candidate.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 30 May 2019, 12:54:53 am
Or UKIP or Brexit Party or any of those other nasties (spellcheck).
To be honest, no point voting Labour where I live. Not with the Little Corporal as our MP.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Grahamm on 30 May 2019, 01:35:59 am
However when you were adding up the various parties EU Parliament election votes into Remain V Leave totals the other day, you'd put every single Green voter into 'Remain'

And when we were told that, in the 2017 election, some number of people "voted for parties which supported Brexit in their manifestos, so..."  :rolleyes
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 May 2019, 03:28:47 pm
 
Quote
What gets me is that you and your little red book waving mate think that all brexit supporters are also Conservative supporters, you constantly attack the conservatives - you will garner no argument from me with that tact. Yet you will constantly defend labours record which is far from perfect either.
I wonder if I am the “little red book waving mate”


I remember the New Labour period well.  I stopped my political levy during that period as a result of New Labour.  I made it clear to my union brothers and sistersl, as well as friends and associates that I viewed Tony Blair and New Labour in the same manner I viewed The Tories, as enemies of our people and our country.  And in Scotland Labour is yet to recover from that betrayal. 



Thankfully New Labour is dead, and once again The Labour  Party can be seen as the party of the many not the few.


But on BREXIT, The Labour Party is a mess.  Mr Corbyn seems to want to have a think about things and discuss it in September at the party conference.  He better wake up, in Scotland The Labour Party is now on life support, and if Mr Corbyn doesn’t make some decisive decision soon and firmly oppose BREXIT, well The Labour Party right across the UK could end up in intensive care along with the Tory Party.


It is clear that the BREXIT dream is just that, a dream, a fantasy built on lies.  If we want to protect our jobs and our economy, if we want to protect our future and environment, if we want to be part of the modern world – we must cancel article 50.
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 30 May 2019, 06:15:45 pm

I remember the New Labour period well.  I stopped my political levy during that period as a result of New Labour.  I made it clear to my union brothers and sistersl, as well as friends and associates that I viewed Tony Blair and New Labour in the same manner I viewed The Tories, as enemies of our people and our country.


I'm sure they were very impressed, too. Here, have a medal  :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: agricola on 30 May 2019, 06:37:25 pm
Quote
What gets me is that you and your little red book waving mate think that all brexit supporters are also Conservative supporters, you constantly attack the conservatives - you will garner no argument from me with that tact. Yet you will constantly defend labours record which is far from perfect either.
I wonder if I am the “little red book waving mate”


I remember the New Labour period well.  I stopped my political levy during that period as a result of New Labour.  I made it clear to my union brothers and sistersl, as well as friends and associates that I viewed Tony Blair and New Labour in the same manner I viewed The Tories, as enemies of our people and our country.  And in Scotland Labour is yet to recover from that betrayal. 



Thankfully New Labour is dead, and once again The Labour  Party can be seen as the party of the many not the few.


But on BREXIT, The Labour Party is a mess.  Mr Corbyn seems to want to have a think about things and discuss it in September at the party conference.  He better wake up, in Scotland The Labour Party is now on life support, and if Mr Corbyn doesn’t make some decisive decision soon and firmly oppose BREXIT, well The Labour Party right across the UK could end up in intensive care along with the Tory Party.


It is clear that the BREXIT dream is just that, a dream, a fantasy built on lies.  If we want to protect our jobs and our economy, if we want to protect our future and environment, if we want to be part of the modern world – we must cancel article 50.


New Labour is far from dead. Its core still sits in the House, waiting for the right moment to ditch Corbine. I amazed you, of all people, think it dead :eek
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 May 2019, 07:53:20 pm
Quote
New Labour is far from dead. Its core still sits in the House, waiting for the right moment to ditch Corbine. I amazed you, of all people, think it dead ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/shocked.gif[/url])

The New Labour days are over.  New Labour failed.  New Labour tried to stop Corbyn and failed.  The membership no longer supports The New Labour project.  Chuka Umuna and others have tried to finish The Labour Party by setting up a new right centralist New Labour type party but in reality may have brought their political careers to a stop.  Others are trying to accuse the Labour Party of being a home for bigots and racists with their fake anti-Semitic claims, they will fail too.

 
But what could sadly kill Labour is one of the men who stood firm for years and is one of the men responsible for winning it back from the Blairites, and that is Corbyn.  The Labour Party must ditch it's ridiculous position of delivering BREXIT.  Well maybe, but only if we can’t get a general election, and then maybe if we can’t get that we’ll put a deal to the people, and maybe see what they want.  Oh the deal will be a bit of this and a bit of that.  For focs sake.


Labour must take a principled stand.  It is clear that it is in the UK’s interest to be part of the single market.  We can leave and go to a Norway type deal (favoured by Farage a few years back), but then why would we want to give up our current privileges and influence.


It is also clear there is a majority in the country in favour of remaining in the EU.


Meanwhile on a brighter note.  There is always the possibility of the upcoming new Prime Minister being put on trial for abusing public office.  And hopefully other candidates will now be charged.  Imagine that a UK PM facing jail!


 
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 May 2019, 08:08:18 pm


It is also clear there is a majority in the country in favour of remaining in the EU.



Yep last Thursday made that clear beyond any reasonable doubt :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 May 2019, 08:17:51 pm


Meanwhile on a brighter note.  There is always the possibility of the upcoming new Prime Minister being put on trial for abusing public office.  And hopefully other candidates will now be charged.  Imagine that a UK PM facing jail!


Is this the crowdfunded private prosecution attempt ?
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 May 2019, 08:23:03 pm


Labour must take a principled stand. 


 :lol :rollin :rollin :rollin oh stop it! it hurts! :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 May 2019, 08:42:18 pm
Quote
last Thursday made that clear beyond any reasonable doubt :lol
What I am saying is this YamFazFan, is that if Labour now backs REMAIN, if Labour now commits to either a second referendum or cancelling article 50, well its job done.


And the message will be clear for The Tories.  You deliver BREXIT and you will pay the political price.  Let them own BREXIT.

 
 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 30 May 2019, 09:01:32 pm
That same post referendum YouGov poll I quoted from had Labour voters as 65% Remain 35% Leave. Almost exactly the opposite of Tory voters.
So what doesn't Corbyn understand?
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 May 2019, 09:10:10 pm
God only knows.  The clock is ticking.................
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: vinnyb on 30 May 2019, 09:15:28 pm


It is also clear there is a majority in the country in favour of remaining in the EU.



  How can anyone know that when two thirds of the country couldn't even be bothered to vote?
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: fazersharp on 30 May 2019, 09:46:28 pm
Quote
last Thursday made that clear beyond any reasonable doubt :lol
What I am saying is this YamFazFan, is that if Labour now backs REMAIN, if Labour now commits to either a second referendum or cancelling article 50, well its job done.
And the message will be clear for The Tories.  You deliver BREXIT and you will pay the political price.  Let them own BREXIT.
So you are quite happy to demonise "populist" parties in the EU but its ok if it is something popular with you. Shameful going after votes just to try to get in power. All along it has been in Labours interest to make brexit as hard as possible.
If there is a general election before brexit is delivered then Nigel Farage needs to start choosing the wallpaper for No10.     
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 May 2019, 10:21:33 pm



It is also clear there is a majority in the country in favour of remaining in the EU.



  How can anyone know that when two thirds of the country couldn't even be bothered to vote?


Eh? That's not my quote! :lol .


If people can't be bothered to vote then they clearly have no interest and are happy to let those of us that do decide for them.


I've seen it previously where Remainers have added the non-voters onto the Remain total because they didn't vote to leave. It's nonsense. You could equally say that they didn't vote to Remain :rolleyes


Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 30 May 2019, 10:28:22 pm
Quote
If there is a general election before brexit is delivered then Nigel Farage needs to start choosing the wallpaper for No10.     
Won't happen. If the Tories back a Brexit (in any form) Brexit Party's support will dissolve. Farage has failed to be elected as an MP 7 times already. 'Mr Populist' provides too simple solutions for what are complicated issues, and nobody would trust him to run a country.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 May 2019, 10:36:32 pm
Quote
All along it has been in Labours interest to make brexit as hard as possible.
:rolleyes
Labour voted in favour of article 50.

Labour need to now realise they made a mistake.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 30 May 2019, 10:38:20 pm
So Fazersharp, if you are not a Conservative supporter, you are perhaps a Brexit Party supporter, because they wouldn't 'have their snouts in the trough'?
Apart from Brexit, what policies of the Brexit Party do you find attractive?
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 May 2019, 10:40:02 pm
Quote
If there is a general election before brexit is delivered then Nigel Farage needs to start choosing the wallpaper for No10.     
The BREXIT party does not have any policies, nor does it have 650 candidates.

The BREXIT party will do about as well as UKIP ever did.  Remember UKIP :lol
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 May 2019, 10:40:48 pm
Quote
Apart from Brexit, what policies of the Brexit Party do you find attractive?
Privatise the NHS :eek     :lol :lol :lol    
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 May 2019, 10:55:38 pm


The BREXIT party will do about as well as UKIP ever did.  Remember UKIP :lol


I was finished with UKIP the moment I heard that they were associating themselves with a certain Tommy Robinson/SYL, but previous to that didn't they win the 2014 European Parliament elections?.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 30 May 2019, 11:00:13 pm
....just realised you're referring to General Elections :o
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 30 May 2019, 11:09:34 pm
Quote
didn't they win the 2014 European Parliament elections?.
Well they had the largest number of UK MEPs, but not a majority. I wouldn't call that a 'win'.
And what did they do with it? Apart from Farage's grandstanding for the cameras, did you here about any of them doing anything at the EU Parliament? Did any of them actually turn up? Or did they just take the wages and expenses?
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 May 2019, 11:38:20 pm
Quote
Well they had the largest number of UK MEPs, but not a majority. I wouldn't call that a 'win'.
Only the SNP have ever won an election that cannot be won.
So yes UKIP were victorious in 2014.
Just as the SNP were in 2016 - though all the press could tell us was that the SNP had lost it's majority. 

The BREXIT Party won the 2019 EU elections.  But that does not mean there is a majority right now in the UK for BREXIT, and there is most certainly no majority for a NO DEAL BREXIT.

But soon people will need to be reminded who UKIP were.
And the BREXIT Party going forwards?  A party without policy ain't gonna go far.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: mtread on 31 May 2019, 12:28:25 am
You only 'win' if you have more than all of your combined opposition. Only then can you dictate outcomes. Otherwise you are powerless.
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 May 2019, 01:08:55 am
 
Quote
You only 'win' if you have more than all of your combined opposition. Only then can you dictate outcomes. Otherwise you are powerless.

Sorry that’s nonsense.


The winner in politics is the party with the biggest share of the vote, or the largest number of seats.  Clearly, winning, and to what extent you win, depends on the electoral system.


Nobody wins a General Election in the UK on the basis of “you have more than all of your combined opposition.” in terms of share of the vote.  You win on the basis of having won more seats than “all of your combined opposition”



The EU elections, just as the Scottish elections, are not run on the first past the vote system.  What you are saying, logically is that nobody ever wins, expect the SNP who did the impossible in 2011.


Which is of course, part of the problem with BREXIT.  It is a clash between referendum and a representative democracy, in this case a first past the post representative democracy.


Democracy should not be about “dictate”.  But then we have in the UK an electoral system that is designed to produce doctoral governments over 4 or 5 years. 



Meanwhile we face the prospect of a small and ageing Tory membership choosing our next Prime Minister.  Can that in any way be called democratic in a national sense?


 
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 May 2019, 01:10:06 am
So yes;
The BREXIT Party won the 2019 EU elections.  But that does not mean there is a majority right now in the UK for BREXIT, and there is most certainly no majority for a NO DEAL BREXIT.

Title: Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
Post by: mtread on 31 May 2019, 09:57:03 am
Quote
Sorry that’s nonsense.
The winner in politics is the party with the biggest share of the vote, or the largest number of seats. 
No it isn't. If the combined opposition(s) have more than you they can form a coalition government, and hey presto, you are the opposition, without power. Then you're 'win' disappears. It's happened often.


So Corbyn wants a softer Brexit, and Hammond suggests a second referendum as a solution. Strange days  :rolleyes


And who the hell is Mark Harper?!

Title: Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
Post by: Oldgit on 31 May 2019, 11:08:58 am

Trump for leadership of the Tory Party.

Title: Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
Post by: Grahamm on 31 May 2019, 11:23:57 am
Jacob Rees-Mogg is objecting to Boris Johnson being taken to court for lying during the Referendum campaign because “It is trying to use the courts to achieve a political end which, I think, is neither right or proper."

Of course when his father took the government to court to try to block the Maastricht Treaty, that was *entirely* different...!  :rollin

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/rees-moggs-maastricht-plea-rejected-legal-challenge-may-continue-despite-defeat-in-high-court-1488238.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/rees-moggs-maastricht-plea-rejected-legal-challenge-may-continue-despite-defeat-in-high-court-1488238.html)
Title: Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 May 2019, 12:02:44 pm
 
Quote
No it isn't. If the combined opposition(s) have more than you they can form a coalition government, and hey presto, you are the opposition, without power. Then you're 'win' disappears. It's happened often.


No because the party with the biggest share of the vote, which in turns means the biggest number of seats, is by rule allowed the first opportunity of forming a government.  They can either do this, as Labour have done in Scotland, by forming a coalition.  Or as the SNP choose to do in 2006 and 2016, they can form a minority government.


The opposition, can then, choose to block every policy of the minority government, if it wishes to do so.  However, the simple fact is, that politicians are elected to serve.  Opposing every move of an elected minority administration would lead to dead-lock and another election – an election in which the opposition would be decimated.  That generally does not happen, as in Scotland’s case we have 5 main political parties (not 2 as in England) plus independents.  There are always deals to be done.


What you are doing is basing your view on the Westminster system.  We laugh in Scotland when English commentators talk about a hung parliament as if it is the end of the world. 



Ms May herself as failed to understand her own position.  English people are conditioned to the 4 or 5 year dictatorial government system.  May failed to recognise that she was in fact running a minority administration (that is after throwing her majority away).  To successfully run a minority administration, you have to work with the opposition to obtain consensus in order to govern. 



What we are seeing is a failure of the first past the post system, and a political class that do not understand how to govern when it does not produce the result it is designed to produce.


The fact is that Scotland, like most of Europe, does not run a first past the post system.  As such coalition and minority government is the norm, as is politicians working across party lines to deliver policy and change. 



 
Title: Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
Post by: mtread on 31 May 2019, 01:49:28 pm
The UK had a referendum in 2011 about proportional representation for Westminster.
Scotland voted against it 64% to 36%
 ;)
Title: Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 May 2019, 02:56:12 pm
 Of course, the Scottish Parliament building was chosen by Westminster.
The electoral system was imposed on us by Westminster.
And it was done so in order that no one party could ever win a majority in the Scottish Parliament.
In that same year that the UK rejected electoral reform at Westminster, the SNP won a majority in the Scottish Parliament. ;)
 
Title: Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
Post by: fazersharp on 31 May 2019, 03:20:20 pm

Trump for leadership of the Tory Party.


agreed
Title: Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 31 May 2019, 03:21:17 pm
Boris is your man then :)
Title: Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 June 2019, 12:03:01 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D76YxFYWwAAoKZE.jpg)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 03 June 2019, 08:19:10 pm
Foccing brilliant :lol


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8IUGgqXsAE0F-R.jpg)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 June 2019, 09:37:48 am
Why are people so determined to wreck our economy.  Why are so many ordinary people in England and Wales desperate to be poorer?
Try asking Corbyn & Khan re The USA and the special relationship ;)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Oldgit on 04 June 2019, 09:39:39 am

VNA I think you have been brainwashed by the Labour Party--you are putting up ridiculous postings that are complete efin rubbish pal.

Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 04 June 2019, 10:58:32 am
Quote
Try asking Corbyn & Khan re The USA and the special relationship

When Trump is gone (soon) it'll be back on track  :)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: fazersharp on 04 June 2019, 11:00:50 am
Why are people so determined to wreck our economy.  Why are so many ordinary people in England and Wales desperate to be poorer?
Try asking Corbyn & Khan re The USA and the special relationship ;)
You can add Emily Thornberry to that list - she is spiting bile about Trump at anyone who will point a camera at her. Corbin is an embarrassment. 
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 June 2019, 01:39:26 pm

They're entitled to their opinion.


The problem is that they don't think anyone who disagrees with them is entitled to theirs :rolleyes
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 04 June 2019, 01:54:34 pm

Quote
Try asking Corbyn & Khan re The USA and the special relationship

When Trump is gone (soon) it'll be back on track  :)



I wouldn't be surprised if Trump wins a second term. He's popular with the electorate.


How much economic pain would we have to suffer if Corbyn gets his hands on the keys to number 10 in the not too distant future?.









Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: fazersharp on 04 June 2019, 05:44:30 pm
Meanwhile "Anna Soubry has become leader of Change UK after six MPs quit the party.The newly formed party split as high-profile figures like Chuka Umunna and ex-leader Heidi Allen walked out."
 And Nigel farage meets with Trump like a proper soon to be PM - unlike Corbin. 
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 June 2019, 06:39:19 pm
 
Quote
Meanwhile "Anna Soubry has become leader of Change UK after six MPs quit the party.The newly formed party split as high-profile figures like Chuka Umunna and ex-leader Heidi Allen walked out."

Wow.  That went well.  Wonder how long The Brexit Party will last?


Aye and for Remainers, those folks sure do a lot of leaving!
 
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 June 2019, 06:50:50 pm
 
Quote
How much economic pain would we have to suffer if Corbyn gets his hands on the keys to number 10 in the not too distant future?.

Never mind who’s gonna be the future PM, Tory or Labour.  What about right now?  Honda is leaving, Nissan is cutting lines, Schaeffler is going, Michelin is leaving.  There is a long list of manufactures now either leaving or planning to leave the UK.
 
The fact remains that the EU is our no.1 trading partner, and indeed BREXIT, whatever form it takes, will not change that.  We need single market access.


Meanwhile may I remind you of my HD post.  They are looking for a Euro base to manufacture their bikes, cos guess what, that most American of all brands is getting more and more pissed off with Trump.  HD is now facing increasing EU import tariffs due to Trumps dumb trade wars.  But let me tell you one country that HD will not even be considering for a nano second right now – yup it’s us – the UK.  In ward investment has ground to a halt in the EU.  And our Euro are snapping up the opportunities.
 
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 June 2019, 06:51:34 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8KCsE2WkAQ5hYS.jpg)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 04 June 2019, 08:04:02 pm
Fazersharp - who's this Corbin fella you keep talking about?  :lol
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: dazza on 04 June 2019, 08:10:06 pm
Ooh, look at all the peace loving lefties.....complete fukwits, the lot of them.


https://www.facebook.com/raheemkassam/videos/611386889375916/ (https://www.facebook.com/raheemkassam/videos/611386889375916/)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: agricola on 04 June 2019, 08:47:39 pm
Meanwhile "Anna Soubry has become leader of Change UK after six MPs quit the party.The newly formed party split as high-profile figures like Chuka Umunna and ex-leader Heidi Allen walked out."
 And Nigel farage meets with Trump like a proper soon to be PM - unlike Corbin.


Likely as not to be sliming their way towards the Lib Dem group of middle class lieing softies in order to have a fighting chance of retaining their seats at the next election. What is it with the Labour Party that senior figures are unwilling to welcome the Leader of the free world on a State visit. I find it rather embarrasing
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: fazersharp on 04 June 2019, 09:02:59 pm
Ooh, look at all the peace loving lefties.....complete fukwits, the lot of them.


https://www.facebook.com/raheemkassam/videos/611386889375916/ (https://www.facebook.com/raheemkassam/videos/611386889375916/)
Shocking - also that poor little 5 foot PCO looks absolutely terrified.Corbyn should take the blame for the way he whipped people up in his speech he sounded like a extremest fanatic
 
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Grahamm on 04 June 2019, 09:39:50 pm
Ooh, look at all the peace loving lefties.....complete fukwits, the lot of them.

Isn't it a good job that right-wingers are such nice, friendly people who would never verbally or racially harass or intimidate anyone who they don't like...???  :rolleyes
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 June 2019, 10:13:55 pm
Quote
What is it with the Labour Party that senior figures are unwilling to welcome the Leader of the free world on a State visit.
Not just the Labur Party, also Tories, Lid Dems, SNP,Plaid Cymru and Greens..............

And here he is  :lol :lol :lol

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1135546172897157120/uXXvExNe?format=jpg&name=600x314)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: fazersharp on 04 June 2019, 10:25:06 pm
Quote
What is it with the Labour Party that senior figures are unwilling to welcome the Leader of the free world on a State visit.
Not just the Labur Party, also Tories, Lid Dems, SNP,Plaid Cymru and Greens..............

And here he is  :lol :lol :lol

(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1135546172897157120/uXXvExNe?format=jpg&name=600x314)
So do you think Obama was a better President
Title: Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
Post by: Val on 04 June 2019, 11:35:49 pm
Can't wait to be out of the EU, I did not vote for another government in Brussels, I voted for free trade only in1974
Happy 4th of June - another Remain day people! :lol
The UK is still in the EU. Just saying...
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: john roche on 05 June 2019, 12:00:38 am
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/04/eu-gives-nigel-farage-24-hours-to-explain-arron-banks-funds (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/04/eu-gives-nigel-farage-24-hours-to-explain-arron-banks-funds)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 05 June 2019, 12:26:15 am
Well done Fazersharp for getting the spelling right ;)
Meanwhile here's an update on the bus situation
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: john roche on 05 June 2019, 02:01:15 pm

How did we move from the NHS getting 350million to the NHS being "on the table" as part of a trade agreement.
How?
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 05 June 2019, 04:35:52 pm
Because of a pathetic shambles of a Tory government, who will do anything to stay in power
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 June 2019, 06:20:02 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8P3b5HWwAIFHtV.jpg)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: fazersharp on 05 June 2019, 06:37:21 pm
Because of a pathetic shambles of a Tory government, who will do anything to stay in power [/color]
Correct, and then there is also Labour who will do anything to GET in power.Its time for a change - starting with Peterborough tomorrow.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 June 2019, 07:38:47 pm


How did we move from the NHS getting 350million to the NHS being "on the table" as part of a trade agreement.How?


We didn't. They're not related. You're just trying to incinuate that they are in a poor attempt to discredit 'Leave' :lol


One was a claim made on the side of a bus during the 2016 EU referendum campaign and the other is something Trump came out with yesterday at the press conference and then rowed back on later in an interview.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 05 June 2019, 07:43:57 pm
Quote
Correct, and then there is also Labour who will do anything to GET in power.Its time for a change - starting with Peterborough tomorrow.


Still not sure what the Brexit Party's policies are, apart from Brexit. :rolleyes  Does it include curing gays? Enlighten us?
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 05 June 2019, 07:47:10 pm
Quote
something Trump came out with yesterday at the press conference and then rowed back on later in an interview.
Are you possibly suggesting Trump talks out of his arse, and hasn't a clue what he's saying from one minute to the next?  :lol
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 05 June 2019, 07:48:59 pm
One was a claim lie made on the side of a bus during the 2016 EU referendum campaign and the other is something Trump came out with yesterday at the press conference and then rowed back on later in an interview.

Corrected it for you ;)

Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 05 June 2019, 08:37:59 pm

Still not sure what the Brexit Party's policies are, apart from Brexit. :rolleyes 


Still not sure what the EU's policies are, apart from preventing Brexit.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 June 2019, 09:04:05 pm

Quote
something Trump came out with yesterday at the press conference and then rowed back on later in an interview.
Are you possibly suggesting Trump talks out of his arse, and hasn't a clue what he's saying from one minute to the next?  :lol


No comment :rolleyes
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 05 June 2019, 09:24:36 pm

One was a claim lie made on the side of a bus during the 2016 EU referendum campaign and the other is something Trump came out with yesterday at the press conference and then rowed back on later in an interview.

Corrected it for you ;)


The £350 million issue is a dispute between gross and net figures isn't it?. Approx £350 million is the 'bill', but it's reduced to around £250 million after rebates?.


However many lies did Project Fear tell during the referendum campaign?. We were led to believe everything bar the sky collapsing in was going to befall us if Leave won :lol


Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: fazersharp on 05 June 2019, 10:32:15 pm

One was a claim lie made on the side of a bus during the 2016 EU referendum campaign and the other is something Trump came out with yesterday at the press conference and then rowed back on later in an interview.

Corrected it for you ;)


The £350 million issue is a dispute between gross and net figures isn't it?. Approx £350 million is the 'bill', but it's reduced to around £250 million after rebates?.
However many lies did Project Fear tell during the referendum campaign?. We were led to believe everything bar the sky collapsing in was going to befall us if Leave won :lol

No No the sky collapsing was also included.
 The bus - anyone can understand what was being said and only a person with Asperger syndrome would read it as being "lets give the NHS £350m a week". Yes we get a rebate and it was cheeky counting to include the rebate in the total figure but this was a dirty campaign - after all they were all politicians what do you expect. But the premise is correct we send £250m a week to the EU and THEY then divi it out to who THEY decide to, yes we get some back in the form of grants etc but we have NO CONTROL as to where it goes. All these idiots who say we get money from the EU ----- ITS OUR MONEY WE SENT THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE, so as the bus said - "lets take back control "         
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 06 June 2019, 09:17:49 am
That's the trouble with simple populist messages that ignore the complicated facts put forward by experts - people believe them, and they influence referendums and elections. They only realise it's all lies when it's too late.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 June 2019, 06:29:44 pm
Quote
The £350 million issue is a dispute between gross and net figures isn't it?. Approx £350 million is the 'bill', but it's reduced to around £250 million after rebates?
 
No it’s much more than that.  Firstly it’s about fact.  The 350 million for our NHS was a lie.  Just to be clear, as some folks don’t seem to understand what a lie is;
 
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
 
This is particularly important as the intention was to get people to vote based on this deception.  It is intentionally miss-leading people in relation to possibly the most important decision facing our country in decades.



It’s absolutely and utterly unacceptable.


Further there will not be 250 million a week for the NHS as a result of leaving the EU.  The fact is we will more than likely need to make significant real terms cuts to our health service if we have a hard BREXIT.


These figures also ignore the huge economic benefit we gain from being members of the EU.  The EU is after all the biggest single tariff free trading zone in the world, and it’s right on our door step.  Making it harder to do trade with our immediate neighbours, by putting barriers and tariffs between us and the EU will not save or generate money, it will in fact cost us billions upon billions in lost trade.


Meanwhile nobody is investing in UK manufacturing.  Major manufacturing in the UK depends on full single market access.  Until manufactures in and around the world can see that the UK has guaranteed single market access going forwards they will not invest in new or existing manufacturing.   
 
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 June 2019, 08:09:28 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8UaDxsV4AgmNQy.jpg)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 June 2019, 09:56:12 pm
The darling economist of the BREXITEERS Professor Minford answering a question from Rory Stewart on the UK potentially leaving the EU way back in 2012.

https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1056568783400243201
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Frosties on 06 June 2019, 10:43:14 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8UaDxsV4AgmNQy.jpg)


Are you taking the piss about today ?????
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 06 June 2019, 11:57:04 pm
I think it's taking the piss out of Trump, who seems to think wrong is just as right.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Frosties on 07 June 2019, 07:17:06 am
I think it's fecking well out of order by VNA to post one of his apparently very fecking funny cartoons (NOT) on a commemorative day for thousands of soldiers. 


VNA - feel like apologising ???
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 07 June 2019, 08:06:49 am
Quote
It's time for a change - starting with Peterborough tomorrow.


Oh dear  :lol
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Slaninar on 07 June 2019, 09:35:24 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8UaDxsV4AgmNQy.jpg)


During WW2, Yugoslavia had a very strong guerilla partisan movement that created a lot of problems to the nazis.
Being caught as a partisan, or helping them, meant the whole family (often even the entire village) got killed.


My friends mother was a small child during the WW2. She told me they had a German patrol in their village on one occasion. The German soldiers were nice to them and she had started talking to one (our province had many Germans and many people spoke some basic German). And told him her name is XXX, but her partisan nickname was YYY. Her family was helping the partisans. The soldier just smiled and walked on. It is to be expected he knew what they would face had he reported it and it took some personal courage to be hush about that. She doesn't tell many war time stories and none seem invented so I believed this one.


My grandfather fought with the partisans, got wounded, but survived the war. Another friend of the family had survived a nazi death camp. Both of them never hated Germans and said most of them just fought for their country. Noting a huge difference between Wermacht and the SS. I don't think an average German soldier was any worse, or better than most other soldiers.


In the recent history my country did some horrible war atrocities. Not everyone could escape the draft, even if they openly opposed the policy and the wars. Some got killed, wearing the uniform of the country who's regime they had openly opposed. You get drafted, sent to the front, and shot at - you can either shoot back and obey the orders, or get shot by one side, or the other.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: steve 10562cc on 07 June 2019, 09:37:48 am
Well VNA you have sunk to your lowest level yet with that cartoon you should be ashamed of yourself. Try posting that on face book for the vets and the families of those that didn't return to see they will not find it funny.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 June 2019, 10:37:31 am

Quote
It's time for a change - starting with Peterborough tomorrow.

Oh dear  :lol


Oh dear indeed if you're a 'Remain' supporter.


In the EU Parliament elections we were told that the Remain vote was represented almost entirely by The Lib Dems and The Green Party, however they only polled 12% & 3% respectively last night.


Labour got 31% of the vote (10,484) and The Brexit Party 29% (9,801). Almost exactly the same margin that Labour beat The Conservatives by last time.


I reckon The Brexit Party did very well for a new party, only losing victory by 683 votes.


The biggest loser on the night, other than the Tories :lol , was 'Remain'. Clearly the people want to Leave'.

Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 June 2019, 10:43:43 am

....oh and although the result was close I don't expect there'll be any attempts to reverse it by hook or by crook.


That's democracy :)
Title: Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 June 2019, 04:13:21 pm
Meanwhile on a brighter note.  There is always the possibility of the upcoming new Prime Minister being put on trial for abusing public office.  And hopefully other candidates will now be charged.  Imagine that a UK PM facing jail!
You're going to need a vivid imagination, the attempt has just been dismissed by The High Court. They said it was 'politically motivated and vexatious'.
Read it and weep :lol .....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48554853 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48554853)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: fazersharp on 07 June 2019, 06:01:34 pm
The 350 million for our NHS was a lie.  Just to be clear, as some folks don’t seem to understand what a lie is;
The high court does.
This is particularly important as the intention was to get people to vote based on this deception.
The high court didn't think so
It’s absolutely and utterly unacceptable.
The high court accepts it.
Are you going to be refunded the money you donated to the crowd funded case.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 June 2019, 06:11:35 pm
Marcus Ball, the campaigner who brought the crowd-funded private prosecution attempt, says that he's spent more than the £300,000 raised and that it's left him "massively in debt"... :lol ...sorry shouldn't laugh :lol ...
I expect there'll be another whip-round to help him out...on second thoughts I wouldn't bank on it :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 07 June 2019, 06:55:14 pm
Quote
I reckon The Brexit Party did very well for a new party, only losing victory by 683 votes.
But they lost :)
TBH, if they can't win in Peterborough, they can't win anywhere. They're another UKIP that might get a few defections from the tories, and then just fade away. A party with no policies, no manifesto, and is just a personal fan club for Fartage  :lol
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: fazersharp on 07 June 2019, 07:07:37 pm
Quote
I reckon The Brexit Party did very well for a new party, only losing victory by 683 votes.
A party with no policies, no manifesto
That's right, just think what they can do when they have some policies.If I was a Lib dem supporter and therefore a remainer I would of voted Labour just to keep the brexit party out. I wonder how many lib dem voters did that.   
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 June 2019, 07:23:17 pm


TBH, if they can't win in Peterborough, they can't win anywhere.


They won in The EU no problem the other week. I wouldn't be so sure that they can't wi....sorry you'll have to excuse me I've just thought about the Marcus Ball case again... :) ... :lol ... :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Frosties on 07 June 2019, 10:20:57 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8UaDxsV4AgmNQy.jpg)


Still waiting for your apology VNA for your feckin piss taking piece of shit cartoon. Not like you to keep your mouth shut.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 07 June 2019, 11:00:06 pm
Quote
I wonder how many lib dem voters did that.   
Probably none. They only got 3.3% of the vote in the 2017 General election.
Lesson - always check facts before making a declaration  :lol
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Hedgetrimmer on 07 June 2019, 11:06:08 pm
The Brexit Party don't need a manifesto. All we need is for them to get us out of the EU. Then we can look at who we want to take the country forward, and I only hope by then the rest have seen that some things need some serious tweaking. Not holding my breath though.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 June 2019, 12:22:30 am
Quote
I reckon The Brexit Party did very well for a new party, only losing victory by 683 votes.
But they lost :)
Yes they certainly did. That's the result and everyone should acknowledge that. It's just a shame a lot of the Remainers don't feel the same about the EU referendum :rolleyes .
It's democracy and long may it last :thumbup .
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: mtread on 08 June 2019, 08:51:32 am
The Brexit Party has no members, only 'registered supporters'. Not even the candidates are members and cannot vote on any policies. It's a one man show. They are just a pressure group. How can anybody take them seriously as a Parliamentary Party.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 June 2019, 11:28:30 am

Of course it's a protest vote at Parliaments failure to deliver Brexit. That's obvious. The Leave voters feel cheated out of their mandate and a party that wholeheartedly represents their cause is bound to do well. Why is that such a big surprise?.


A sizeable proportion of Remain voters feel disappointed by The Labour Party's duplicity on this matter and similarly they shifted to The Lib Dems/Green Party in the EU Parliament elections.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: darrsi on 08 June 2019, 11:36:26 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8UaDxsV4AgmNQy.jpg)


Still waiting for your apology VNA for your feckin piss taking piece of shit cartoon. Not like you to keep your mouth shut.


His general attitude has consistently always been a piece of shit, along with this complete bollox never ending Brexit thread.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Frosties on 08 June 2019, 11:58:56 am
VNA - you were online last night 11pm !!! You have read the requests for a reply but appear so feckin arrogant that you deem an apology is not required. Why not open your mouth and explain why no apology is required ??? You're always more than happy to be a gob shite elsewhere so balls in one hand and type with the other.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 June 2019, 01:32:34 pm

along with this complete bollox never ending Brexit thread.


When Brexit ends the thread ends :deal


So in other words it's got years & years to run yet :lol
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: darrsi on 08 June 2019, 04:09:42 pm

along with this complete bollox never ending Brexit thread.


When Brexit ends the thread ends :deal


So in other words it's got years & years to run yet :lol


Already feels that long since it all started  :groan
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 June 2019, 06:07:32 pm


along with this complete bollox never ending Brexit thread.


When Brexit ends the thread ends :deal


So in other words it's got years & years to run yet :lol


Already feels that long since it all started  :groan


I can't think why, I mean its not as though anybody's repeated themselves at all :lol
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Frosties on 08 June 2019, 06:13:51 pm
VNA - you were online last night 11pm !!! You have read the requests for a reply but appear so feckin arrogant that you deem an apology is not required. Why not open your mouth and explain why no apology is required ??? You're always more than happy to be a gob shite elsewhere so balls in one hand and type with the other.


And again today at 1pm........but still no balls to reply. How about you simply modify your feckin offensive cartoon then you won't have to type jack shit. Tw@ !!

Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: fazersharp on 08 June 2019, 11:02:48 pm
There is no way we can have a coke snorting PM. It will be forever thrown back at him. 
And he only came clean ( :lol ) before it came out in a book.
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Frosties on 09 June 2019, 12:25:03 am
VNA - you were online last night 11pm !!! You have read the requests for a reply but appear so feckin arrogant that you deem an apology is not required. Why not open your mouth and explain why no apology is required ??? You're always more than happy to be a gob shite elsewhere so balls in one hand and type with the other.


And again today at 1pm........but still no balls to reply. How about you simply modify your feckin offensive cartoon then you won't have to type jack shit. Tw@ !!


And yet again at 11.30pm - you really are a spineless self righteous cunt. A patronising, arrogant waste of space. 
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: dazza on 09 June 2019, 02:38:55 am
VNA - you were online last night 11pm !!! You have read the requests for a reply but appear so feckin arrogant that you deem an apology is not required. Why not open your mouth and explain why no apology is required ??? You're always more than happy to be a gob shite elsewhere so balls in one hand and type with the other.


And again today at 1pm........but still no balls to reply. How about you simply modify your feckin offensive cartoon then you won't have to type jack shit. Tw@ !!


And yet again at 11.30pm - you really are a spineless self righteous cunt. A patronising, arrogant waste of space.


 :rollin :rollin :rollin









Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 June 2019, 11:52:19 am
 
Quote
VNA - feel like apologising ???
I am at a loss as to what I am to apologise for.  Have I to apologise for your need to be offended?    Have I to apologise for your inability to understand a simple cartoon?  Am I to apologise for a sense of humour failure on your part?  I am to somehow apologise on behalf of the cartoonist Dave Brown, or apologise on behalf of the national newspaper that published his cartoon?


And I take it Frosties that as you find Dave’s cartoon so offensive that you have written to him and the Independent in order to express, hopefully politely and respectfully, your displeasure at this cartoon.


 
Quote
And yet again at 11.30pm - you really are a spineless self righteous cunt. A patronising, arrogant waste of space. 
Wow!  My access to this forum is being monitored by another member.  I didn’t even know you could do that.  It perhaps suggests you have issues Frosties.  Though on a positive note, well if this is all you have to get mad and upset at, then lucky you!
 
As for the cartoon.  It’s not mine, not my sketch.  It’s by Dave Brown, whom I understand has a regular spot at the Independent.  For a moment there I was about to explain the role of the news and political cartoonist – but really – I mean is that necessary?


Yeah I like it – hence I posted it here.   I like it a lot.   I can’t speak for Dave, but I can tell you what I take from it.  I believe the cartoon references events in Charlottesville a couple of years ago and Trumps comments on those events.  Trump criticised anti-fascist and racism protestors.  He further effectively said there are some very fine fascists. 



 Charlottesville was extraordinary.  There was a massive show of force from fascists, racists, bigots, anti-Semites, including a procession by the Ku Klux Klan.  These people came to Charlottesville fully tooled up, with everything from knives to semi-automatic military spec assault weapons.


32 year old paralegal and civil rights activist Heather Heyer lost her life in Charlottesville on August the 12th 2017.


And what did Donald Trump do, he criticised the good and brave people of Charlottesville and those who came to support them, who took to the streets to oppose the fascists and drive them out of their town.  Shame on the Donald, shame on him.


That was why when Trump came to Turnberry, I was there, along with many others, to express my disgust.  This is why repeatedly people have taken to the streets across the UK to express their disgust at Trump.


Donald Trump is a racist, bigoted, misogynistic, fascist sympathising, narcissistic and dim-witted idiot.  The man is a disgrace and an embarrassment.


So yeah, I feel, as I think Dave feels, we could do a darn sight better in remembering our brave men, and women, who fought and defeated the Nazis in Europe, so many whom gave their lives doing so.


Donald Trump laying a reef at the D Day Commemorations frankly makes me wanna puke.
 
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 June 2019, 11:55:41 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8XBbtlXsAIPyPM.jpg)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: Frosties on 09 June 2019, 05:35:02 pm
Quote
VNA - feel like apologising ???
I am at a loss as to what I am to apologise for.  I doubt you've ever apologised for anything in your lifetime


 
Quote
And yet again at 11.30pm - you really are a spineless self righteous cunt. A patronising, arrogant waste of space. 
Wow!  My access to this forum is being monitored by another member.  I didn’t even know you could do that.  It perhaps suggests you have issues Frosties. Yup...I have a serious issue with you.  Though on a positive note, well if this is all you have to get mad and upset at, then lucky you! Lucky me is when you can say it to my face.
 

Donald Trump laying a reef at the D Day Commemorations frankly makes me wanna puke.


Bullshit, waffle and general bollocks from a shameless self righteous cunt - Just let me know when you plan a tour and post up your itinerary so we can talk about it
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 June 2019, 07:53:23 pm
 
Quote
Bullshit, waffle and general bollocks from a shameless self righteous cunt - Just let me know when you plan a tour and post up your itinerary so we can talk about it

Do you not think you should be apologising to me?  You are out of order Frosties.


Meanwhile………… :lol


Quote
Correct, and then there is also Labour who will do anything to GET in power.Its time for a change - starting with Peterborough tomorrow.
Oh yes.  BREXIT party fails at its first attempt to elect an MP.  Excellent! :)


Let’s be honest without any policies, well I just don’t see them going anywhere.


And this will all be good for Labour, as the BREXIT party will take many more votes from the Tories than they will from The Labour Party.  The Tories are in deep shit now.


Quote
The high court accepts it.
We will need to wait for the full verdict to be published.  The court has not, as yet, commented on whether Boris lied or not.  Not that we really need The High Court to tell us that he lied.  He clearly did.


Quote
The Brexit Party don't need a manifesto. All we need is for them to get us out of the EU. Then we can look at who we want to take the country forward, and I only hope by then the rest have seen that some things need some serious tweaking. Not holding my breath though.


No manifesto?  The BREXIT Party – vote for us and see what you get. :lol   I mean what is this The Lucky Dip Party. :lol   In a general election – no policies and no manifesto will mean no votes and no MPs for The Brexit Party.  Don’t forget we run a fix term parliament now – who the fuck is gonna vote for – well nothing.
 
 
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 09 June 2019, 07:56:28 pm
Anybody fae another cartoon?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D8S1aJdXUAA8gnN.jpg)
Title: Re: BREXIT
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 09 June 2019, 08:50:31 pm
This is getting too personal now.