Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: johnakay on 11 June 2016, 01:50:15 pm
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GOT THIS OFF FACEBOOK.....
Pete Giles (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009045155409&fref=nf)[/b]
7 June at 21:19 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1604202489891241&set=a.1391282037849955.1073741831.100009045155409&type=3) ·
OK,.. here's a short list of financial and industrial FUBARs from the EU then,.. (it was longer, much longer, but really tough reading)
Cadbury moved production of several brands to a factory in Poland 2011 with EU grant. Despite promising the workforce they would not.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. They have not yet said what UK plants will lose out.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. That move was not wanted by Peugeot, it was forced on them by EU blundering and cost then dearly.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in Spain using Swedish steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. (Just assembly)
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. (I didn't believe this till I checked Financial Times)
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. (Now sold on again)
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. (Joint CEOs charged with financial trading fraud, insider trading)
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. New trains contract awarded to German company.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria and those parts assembled in the UK. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
Yes some companies are in the UK with EU funding, but have you noticed that many, like Tata, are planning to shift the production away again, as soon as they will not have to pay a penalty to the EU for doing so. Hundreds already did, just using British skills to develop products and then opt for lower labour costs, often with a serious loss in quality too like Bosch alternators. Many employ staff only on a part-time basis, minimum wage and even those sent by DWP to work for nothing, those get just their benefits.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
The way companies abuse the EU commercial assistance system is not doing the EU, Britain or any other country any favours. It has massive loopholes that are simply exploited and no-one in Brussels has the wit nor sense to change it. Change in the EU is slow at best and in most cases, next to impossible due to the intense lobbying by companies with a vested interest in abusing this very broken system. I know Margaret Thatcher was not many people's favourite person, but she did get a number of measures agreed that have now been completely eroded and sadly, by her own party. Mr Junker has said that any more 'special status' for Britain will be difficult and will face legal challenges. In other words, we will not get most of them, if any.
If the EU may break up in the event of Britain voting to leave as suggested by both leaders of the Bundesbank and European Central Bank, then in all honesty, we have as a nation been propping up a failed system for too long, It will probably fail anyway, taking anyone still 'in' with it. Thus, this vote you have is not exactly 'remain' or 'leave', it is more an issue of jumping off the sinking ship while we have a chance to swim ashore now, or waiting till it is in really deep water and going down with it.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.[/size]
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Yawn
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We don't make anything in this country anymore...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vmcmqTAu6b8
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Interesting read thanks mate
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Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
You mean Dyson do not mind to spend EU money on new plant yet he is suporting leave campaign :moon
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Oh it's on Facebook so it must be true.....
You see most of these companies have moved some of their manufacturing to other (EU or non-EU) countries because the labour is cheaper. With modern technology you can build and run a factory anywhere in the world. It's called globalisation, nothing to do with the EU.
And companies over here are foreign owned because this government puts everything out to tender, and perhaps the most attractive bidders are not UK owned.
What you can bet on, is if we leave the EU, we also lose foreign investment here. Ford, BMW, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, even Triumph. All will be gone to other EU countries.
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Oh it's on Facebook so it must be true.....
You see most of these companies have moved some of their manufacturing to other (EU or non-EU) countries because the labour is cheaper. With modern technology you can build and run a factory anywhere in the world. It's called globalisation, nothing to do with the EU.
And companies over here are foreign owned because this government puts everything out to tender, and perhaps the most attractive bidders are not UK owned.
What you can bet on, is if we leave the EU, we also lose foreign investment here. Ford, BMW, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, even Triumph. All will be gone to other EU countries.
Speculation Mtread, just speculation......... But everything else by the other side is also just speculation - there are no CERTAINTIES on either side.
Either way its a gamble - you make your choice and put your X where you want to.
Personally, I don't believe either side.........but know which way I'll be voting.
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Well my first two bits are already true, but yes the last bit is what might happen.
However, given that vehicles manufactured in the UK are currently Customs tariff free when sold within the EU, but they might not be if we leave (depending on what deal we may or may not get), that isn't speculation.
I know where my X is going too.
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Personally, I don't believe either side.........but know which way I'll be voting.
So which way is that then, think I know which way mtread is - which is out.
I am out by the way.
Europe hate us, they want our money,yet dont back us in our fights, they do their own thing regardless of the rules they themselves set, and yet clamp down on us if we want to do our own thing. Like not give the vote to prisoners, one tiny little example so foc em we are out, they talk nice one day and threaten us the next. Europe (being France and Germany) are scared that if we leave then others will want to follow and their whole EU political superstate dreams will collapse.
Big business want us to stay because they don't like change and the unknown, but one week in to an out vote that will be the new known and they wont want change from that either.
Yes we are and island with and island mentality which has served us well enough over the years, it has kept us out of the Euro which is failing, the British public know best for the British public, but in or out - finally we get a say in a vote where our x in a box really does count for once.
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I'm not really that fussed over the economics of the situation of being in/out of the EU. The only reason I'm voting out is because the EU is run by appointed individuals rather than elected ones. If that means we lose out financially, well so be it! I'd rather hate the guy that was voted in, knowing I have a chance to vote him out in a few years time, instead of being dictated to by a guy I had no say in being where he is.
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I'm not really that fussed over the economics of the situation of being in/out of the EU. The only reason I'm voting out is because the EU is run by appointed individuals rather than elected ones. If that means we lose out financially, well so be it! I'd rather hate the guy that was voted in, knowing I have a chance to vote him out in a few years time, instead of being dictated to by a guy I had no say in being where he is.
Same here , I would rather be governed by an elected asshole than an unelected asshole .
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I'm not really that fussed over the economics of the situation of being in/out of the EU. The only reason I'm voting out is because the EU is run by appointed individuals rather than elected ones.
What, you mean like the Chancellor, Education Secretary, Home Secretary and every other Ministerial post which *YOU* do not get a say in?
And how many members of the House of Lords did you vote for..?
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Graham - ypu have missed the bit where most agree, some don't, the law gets passed anyway and only some countries (like the UK) make it an actual law where others, who agreed it in the first place (France/Germany etc) do not take it on to their statute books.
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Graham - ypu have missed the bit where most agree, some don't, the law gets passed anyway and only some countries (like the UK) make it an actual law where others, who agreed it in the first place (France/Germany etc) do not take it on to their statute books.
That's a fault with the UK, not Europe and is an argument that we could still stay In and *NOT* be told what to do by the EU!
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Graham - ypu have missed the bit where most agree, some don't, the law gets passed anyway and only some countries (like the UK) make it an actual law where others, who agreed it in the first place (France/Germany etc) do not take it on to their statute books.
That's a fault with the UK, not Europe and is an argument that we could still stay In and *NOT* be told what to do by the EU!
That could be part of the problem in that we have had successive governments of all colours that are eurofiles and the euro sceptics have had to keep their heads down, until now they can finally "come out" and if it is an out vote then a lot of the cabinet politicians who are for in - will also be out and we then end up with a far more euro sceptic cabinet, but the irony is that if we are out then we wouldn't be needing a cabinet that would be willing to stand up to Europe any more.
What we now need is a sort of cash-in like the betting shops do, with the vote being so close we could stop everything and now go back to Brussels with our demands AND this time have them met in full.
Europe in their arrogance gave Camoron nothing thinking we would vote to stay anyway and now the EU elite are starting to panic.
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Europe in their arrogance gave Camoron nothing thinking we would vote to stay anyway and now the EU elite are starting to panic.
It is still worth remembering that this is all about the Tory party. The only reason we are having a referendum is because DC put it in the Tory manifesto to unite his divided party and win the last general election.
That was the easy bit, now he has to win the referendum. But DC and the Tory party are gambling our future on the back of their own petty squabbling.
Whatever happens we have a Tory party in meltdown, that’s a government in meltdown. Meanwhile the Labour elite still can’t accept the will of the membership and get behind Mr Corbyn.
But the EU elite panicking. Worried, yes, but panicking, probably not.
What it does mean, I think, and this is where the leave camp are bull shitting, is that trade and all the positives of the single market will continue unchanged. They won’t. The EU isn’t going to sit back and watch member state after member state leave, so the UK is going to face years of difficult negotiations and trade restrictions if it leaves. There is no way this will be an easy transition. It will hurt, it will hit our currency, it will hit you in the pocket and it will effect our pensions. But Boris, Gove and Farage are rich men who won’t be effected and don’t give a fuck about ordinary people.
What we will be walking away from at the end of the day is the biggest open trade area in the world. And the biggest most powerful trading negotiator in the world, whilst at the same time having to abide by it’s rules and regulations but without any influence whatsoever.
In the meantime, the Tories will dismantle the EU working time directive and numerous other pieces of employment legislation at will so they can have a free hand in fucking it into the working man once more - well that is if they can pull themselves together and hang onto power after a leave vote.
On top of that, pretty much every poll so far has showed Scotland and NI voting decisively to remain in. If that is the case, even getting out will be a long slow process and those respective parliaments may refuse to cooperate. And yes it may in turn lead to the end of Great Britain as we know it today.
I want to stay in the EU. It offers a buffer against the daft English electorate that keep repeatedly voting Tory. Just as the Scottish Parliament acts as a buffer against Westminster so does the EU. And given the opportunity to vote in another Scottish Independence I’ll vote again to leave the UK and join the EU.
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Europe in their arrogance gave Camoron nothing thinking we would vote to stay anyway and now the EU elite are starting to panic.
I want to stay in the EU. It offers a buffer against the daft English electorate that keep repeatedly voting Tory. Just as the Scottish Parliament acts as a buffer against Westminster so does the EU. And given the opportunity to vote in another Scottish Independence I’ll vote again to leave the UK and join the EU.
Everything always has to come around to the Scottish independence with you doesn't it :pokefun
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Everything always has to come around to the Scottish independence with you doesn't it
But that's the inevitable consequence. The total vote is the one that counts, but the results will also be collected regionally. If Scotland (and perhaps even London) gives a result very different to the total, why should they stay within the UK and be dragged out of the EU?
If it turns out to be Brexit, I'm moving to Scotland. The roads are better anyway.
On a pedantic note, NI isn't in Great Britain, it's in 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'. Perhaps the correct term is UKxit (preceded with an 'F')
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Everything always has to come around to the Scottish independence with you doesn't it ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/pokefun.gif[/url])
Darn it! Not taking my bait then?
But seriously I get the feeling that people are blaming the EU for all their/our ills, when frankly it's not really the EU that is to blame. It's our governments. Coming out of the EU won't make things any better, only even worse.
You can also bet that in or out the EU will reform significantly over the next few years, that is if the EU wants to survive. The EU is in danger of collaspsing and it knows it.
I am dreading the 23rd, or rther waking up on the 24th to find out we have voted out. It's like shooting yourself in the foot.
And bait aside, yup honestly, people in Scotland will be seriously pissed if we get dragged out by England against our will.
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You can also bet that in or out the EU will reform significantly over the next few years, that is if the EU wants to survive. The EU is in danger of collaspsing and it knows it.
We can only hope that if it is a stay vote that the shock of almost leaving will of given the EU a good enough kick up the arse to make some significant changes.
I get the impression from the rest of europe that they just dont like us much, where are all the leaders saying please UK dont leave we value your input you are a wonderful nation and enrich the whole of the eu with your sense of right and your kindness and loving values. They are missing a trick there and instead of threatening saying we wont give you trade deals they could be wooing us.
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You can also bet that in or out the EU will reform significantly over the next few years, that is if the EU wants to survive. The EU is in danger of collaspsing and it knows it.
We can only hope that if it is a stay vote that the shock of almost leaving will of given the EU a good enough kick up the arse to make some significant changes.
I get the impression from the rest of europe that they just dont like us much, where are all the leaders saying please UK dont leave we value your input you are a wonderful nation and enrich the whole of the eu with your sense of right and your kindness and loving values. They are missing a trick there and instead of threatening saying we wont give you trade deals they could be wooing us to stay.
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meanwhile in Wales :rollin
(http://i3.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article11419549.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/beaver.jpg)
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meanwhile in Wales :rollin
([url]http://i3.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article11419549.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/beaver.jpg[/url])
I dont know which is the funnier - the spray job or that fellas sense of dress, checks and floral never go
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The way the polls are reading, whichever way the vote goes it looks like 51% of the population are going to be smug and 49% are going to be pissed off. It will then fester for some considerable time while everybody carries on arguing about it.
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meanwhile in Wales :rollin
([url]http://i3.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article11419549.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/beaver.jpg[/url])
GENIUS POST!!!! Hahahahahaa brilliant. Flippin needed that hehe...the polls are aswaying......got question time on now....
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Cadbury moved production of several brands to a factory in Poland 2011 with EU grant. Despite promising the workforce they would not. That's the EU'S fault or Cadburys? (Who 'owns Cadburys)
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. (Turkey isn't in the EU- Turks build Ford Transits cheaper with less strikes)
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. They have not yet said what UK plants will lose out. (And TATAs inability to compete effectively is the EU'S fault - or hey why don't they make the stuff in India..Chinese manage to make it in China!
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. That move was not wanted by Peugeot, it was forced on them by EU blundering and cost then dearly. The EU of course said 'Dear PCT you must move your expensive operation somewhere cheaper or else)
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in Spain using Swedish steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. (Just assembly)
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. (I didn't believe this till I checked Financial Times) The British Army may be able to afford two of them - The British Army is bringing back tonnes of steel from Germany ..I think the point here is that a part of the EU is manufacturing military hardware..big deal..do the Spanish get pissy about French missiles assembled in the UK then?
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. So a business survives by relocating to where labour costs are sensible..what a bloody crazy idea.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. The far east is where clothes get made- in sweat shops and bought by British People...all the EU's fault durrr
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. When was the last time you spent your pocket money on a plastic model? Kids don't want them..period
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. So it appears that businesses that want to make a profit can locate their manufacturing base where it works for them..and within the EU..all that's being said is that business is business..wonder how thise cheeky Slovaks can compete WITHIN THE SAME RULES
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Have you ever been to Greenock? I have..
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. EU seems to be just the ticket for subsidies to British industry - pity the workforce cant compete
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Moving ones manufacturing closer to market..wow how green, how efficient..
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. Its an Italian company! BTW why not squinny about Dyson just because they brought part of their operation back is that forgivable..Its just business in a global economy
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs AKZO Coatings (SIkkens by another name) are a quality product and know what they are doing., They acquire a competitor and are then expected to compete with themselves? get reaL
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. (Now sold on again) The EU isn't responsible for Hapless George and his failure to tackle corporate tax avoidance
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. (Joint CEOs charged with financial trading fraud, insider trading) A crime is a crime..I think your said these people committed a fraud using EU funds and are being prosecuted ..hardly the EUs fault other than due diligence needs to be carried out and there are areas where the EU must be slimmed and made more accountable. Ian Duncan Smith would sort that kind of sleazy stuff out presumably? pardon me I think I just wet myself
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Hmm Rolls Royce are owned by the Jerries ..lets not piss our partners off would seem a good idea rather than bemoaning their business acumen and ability
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Hoots Mac Manuel..stop buying their electricity at once..make your own..(jeez)
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. Bloody hell..didn't know that..they did seem freakishly reliable
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Hmm Bloody EU power stations we should be getting BNFL and Barrat to build a proper British one...except..err ..WE ARE SKINT
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. New trains contract awarded to German company. Yes Siemens do make an efficient product and have an understanding of Market forces..wasn't aware Canada was in the EU
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU - So we are good and inventing things and selling them on..I think you said the British inventing industry thrives within the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria and those parts assembled in the UK. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. What a great example of a quality product manufactured globally and assembled in Britain-rather than China..well done..was that the incorrect answer.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. No we don't engage in non profit making activity and have ceased to be competitive in many. It is therefore down to us to innovate and capture market share in specialisations..Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Formula one and motorsport in general..technology and engineering in large part..English.
Yes some companies are in the UK with EU funding, but have you noticed that many, like Tata, are planning to shift the production away again, as soon as they will not have to pay a penalty to the EU for doing so. Hundreds already did, just using British skills to develop products and then opt for lower labour costs, often with a serious loss in quality too like Bosch alternators. Many employ staff only on a part-time basis, minimum wage and even those sent by DWP to work for nothing, those get just their benefits. Again the mantra of 'The World owes us a living' no it doesn't and as for the vile DWP..A Tory monstrosity..not an EU one
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. Okay..I wont remind you that in the 16th Century Glasgow was a Salmon Fishery..and there are Salmon running in the Clyde again..bloody EU responsible for fishery protection and environmental laws. In typical Scottish efficieny mode we are now selling deep fried in batter two headed salmon in down town Possilpark ..Thank you Royal Navy and your radioactive leaks
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Ohh dear Asset stripping - who gets the money- who lets it happen? Hmm yes YOUR ELECTED GOVT..stop confusing the two. Immigration yeah..Vote Leave...you will want to when the Gendarmes are helping ISIS onto the Dover Ferry
The way companies abuse the EU commercial assistance system is not doing the EU, Britain or any other country any favours. It has massive loopholes that are simply exploited and no-one in Brussels has the wit nor sense to change it. Change in the EU is slow at best and in most cases, next to impossible due to the intense lobbying by companies with a vested interest in abusing this very broken system. I know Margaret Thatcher was not many people's favourite person, but she did get a number of measures agreed that have now been completely eroded and sadly, by her own party. Mr Junker has said that any more 'special status' for Britain will be difficult and will face legal challenges. In other words, we will not get most of them, if any.
If the EU may break up in the event of Britain voting to leave as suggested by both leaders of the Bundesbank and European Central Bank, then in all honesty, we have as a nation been propping up a failed system for too long, It will probably fail anyway, taking anyone still 'in' with it. Thus, this vote you have is not exactly 'remain' or 'leave', it is more an issue of jumping off the sinking ship while we have a chance to swim ashore now, or waiting till it is in really deep water and going down with it.
Cor Blimey a massive rant which boils down to the UK needs to have effective domestic Government and Governance..The SNP have a solution..pity the rUK isn't equally industrious and imaginative
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. Because I don't vote for them..never will but would want to be part of a Europe where I did vote for representatives and could hold their performance to account at the ballot - all of them..the only way to achieve this is to be fully engaged and grown up..instead of saying 'The big boys made me do it'
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. Yet businesses do survive and flourish if they engage with the system and commit to operating efficiently
No - businesses can and do survive- prosper/ You don't think it matters.[/size]
Well what a load of bilious bollocks that was..NEXT
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I've heard that if we stay in they will have us all driving on the right hand side of the road!
...apparently phasing this in with the lorries and coaches first! :rollin :lol :rollin :lol
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I'm really grateful that so many actors, musicians, film/telly stars and celebrities have spoken out in favour of staying in.
It sure has helped me make my mind up on the issue :thumbup
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Apparently Alf Garnet shot some MP trying to get his point across..........
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Didn't she die this afternoon?
Intentionally left blank
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I have a terrible sense of humour
Sorry
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On a pedantic note, NI isn't in Great Britain, it's in 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.
I stand corrected mtread.
Cadbury moved production of several brands to a factory in Poland 2011 with EU grant. Despite promising the workforce they would not.
Cadbury was sold to Mondelez International, which used to be known as Kraft Foods. Yes big corporations lie, and we let them away with it all the time. But the EU didn't sell it.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. They have not yet said what UK plants will lose out.
Yup Tata don't give a fuck, we sold out to them and let them screw us. But it wasn't the EU that screwed us.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
We attracted loads of companies to Scotland with grants and bribes, Greenock was known as silicone glen, but they have all done the dirty and fucked off. But it wasn't the EU that moved them out.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Pretty much our whole electrical infrastructure has been sold to foreign companies. We now rely on those companies to invest in our infrastructure. Our essential infrastructure is owned by foreign companies whose priority is making a profit and getting it out of the country. It seems like we’ll be importing more and more electricity via the international super grid as we wait for foreign states to invest and provide us with new power stations. It’s national economic suicide. And it's how dumb we are.
You know workers in the power industry were told that the national power companies were inefficient (they were not) and the market required competition, so they got sold off. It was called privatisation. Yet most of our power industry in now owned by foreign states. Yes our power industry is state owned again, just the wrong states that’s all. And the monopolies are bigger than ever.
But at the end of the day many EU countries kept their state industuries. That we have messed up big time has nothing to do with the EU.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK.
But you see that’s my point. We have not been asset stripped by the EU. That’s nonsense. We have been asset stripped by the Tory Government from 1979 onwards. And of course Tony Blair was Margaret Thatcher’s greatest ever success, New Labour were the New Tories and they continued the privatisation, asset stripping, PPP and selling our essential infrastructure abroad, even getting our social services delivered by profit prioritising foreign companies.
It’s our own successive governments that have screwed us. But we seem to be too stupid to see it, and hey it’s so much easier just to blame Johnny Foreigner and the EU. People are rightly angry and pissed off, but they are being mugged again as opportunists like Boris and Nigel pull the wool over their eyes and get them to blame the EU.
the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Ohh dear Asset stripping - who gets the money- who lets it happen? Hmm yes YOUR ELECTED GOVT..stop confusing the two. Immigration yeah..Vote Leave...you will want to when the Gendarmes are helping ISIS onto the Dover Ferry
Yup Boris, Nigel and others push this nonsense and folks soak it up. Our armed forces being passed to Brussels? – what can I say – bollocks. And how is little Britain going to fight ISIS alone – yeah bollocks. And don’t forget we were a big part of creating ISIS not the EU, the bulk of the EU had the sense to see GW Bush and Tony Blair for what they are.
Cor Blimey a massive rant which boils down to the UK needs to have effective domestic Government and Governance
Indeed. And yes. But do you really think leaving the EU will make one blind bit of difference in respect to your rant? All it will mean is we will have pulled out of the biggest trading block in the world. All the stuff you are complaining about will keep on happening meanwhile we’ll be begging a pissed off EU to give us access to their markets. The pound will go down the tubes, our weak economy will be weakened further and our pensions will be up the swanny. And do you think Boris and Nigel will give a fuck? Naw they’ll be too busy doing what they always do, lining their own pockets and furthering their careers.
The SNP have a solution pity the rUK isn't equally industrious and imaginative
Because the SNP are making something of an attempt to govern in the interests of the people, rather than as at Westminster in their own personal interests. The EU isn’t a problem for Scotland, it’s the fucking shitty Westminster governments that are.
So no I’m not buying all the BREXIT shit, leaving the EU won’t solve a darn thing, it’s only gonna give us a whole new set of problems.
So on the 23rd June we all need to vote REMAIN.
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I am voting out, mac you just confirmed my feelings. strange question I know I wonder how many people would vote out if it guaranteed us sunshine. ;)
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I am voting out, mac you just confirmed my feelings. strange question I know I wonder how many people would vote out if it guaranteed us sunshine. ;)
I am pleased I confirmed your feelings..presumably you are feeling bonkers and want to live in a leper colony ruled by the extreme right wing and with no tangible assets
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yes going to sell my house hide my money and live in my carafan, while claiming state benefits . I could claim racism being welsh that my brain has been affected by years of abuse from the English government . and having to work in Bristol with so many foreign people , my second tongue it not English no more it is polish and albianean , asta la vista babies,
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Welsh = 'Wenglish' or 'Western English' sorry mate you can't claim racism as they don't discriminate against you..they own you. :-)
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We had letters handed out at work re our companies stance on the EU. How it believes we should remain, stating we should consider this when voting in the referendum
Most went straight in the bin
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BM is a big Labour supporter then.
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What bugs me is that "stayers" that say oh we get this grant and that funding and what ever else money to do whatever else, but the thing is its our chuffing money in the first place that they are sending back after we have put out our begging bowl for it. Also of course only after it has been through various departments whose sole purpose is to create work for themselves to justify their cost.
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Something that hasn't been mentioned is trust, these people asking for our remain vote are the same ones who have taken our country to an ilegal war, committed fraud by claiming expenses they were not entitled to, made promises to students only to back track once in power etc etc
Who believes they have our future in mind while they campaign, or is there another agenda
Actually, can they be believed at all?
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Actually, can they be believed at all?
No, whichever party they belong to.
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What bugs me is that "stayers" that say oh we get this grant and that funding and what ever else money to do whatever else, but the thing is its our chuffing money in the first place
And it's about 0.5% of our Gross Domestic Product. But, hey, let's just make people *think* that it's a lot of money and leave it at that...
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Something that hasn't been mentioned is trust, these people asking for our remain vote are the same ones who have taken our country to an ilegal war, committed fraud by claiming expenses they were not entitled to, made promises to students only to back track once in power etc etc
Who believes they have our future in mind while they campaign, or is there another agenda
Actually, can they be believed at all?
You mean unlike Boris, Nigel, Michael and, of course, Rupert, that well known Australian Billionaire with an American Passport.
Yes, I'm sure that *they* all have *our* best interests at heart...
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What bugs me is that "stayers" that say oh we get this grant and that funding and what ever else money to do whatever else, but the thing is its our chuffing money in the first place
And it's about 0.5% of our Gross Domestic Product. But, hey, let's just make people *think* that it's a lot of money and leave it at that...
It could be 1 pence for all I care the point still remains that it is our money that we sent to them and then THEY chose where it gos when it comes back
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Which (like Norway) we would still be paying if we leave, but then without any vote at all......
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... which voids that point. Every argument for staying in (which I agree with in sentiment) all seem to be void.
So how much better off do YOU think you'll be if we left the EU? and do you think the government will give you the saving in cash or by cheque? Or improved public services. I don't think you'll see or get any of the above.
I love the sentiment of independence and 'making Britain great again' and all that.. but do our Muppet leaders know how to achieve this? They have no fricking idea, David Cameron is S*****g his pants that we will go out, he knows nothing about economic stimulus.. I think what we'll lose we'll lose quickly and what we'll gain we will gain slowly if at all. I'm preparing for a big recession!
I really do agree with the out campaign in sentiment but when you look at the reality and logic, there is no real benefit to leave.
Just my opinion.
Brett
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I look at it this way, if we weren't in the eu and the referendum was for joining it as it stands with what it's done to Greece, Cyprus, the HQ in Brussels moving to Strasbourg once a month for no valid reasons and giving the
EU lawmakers primacy over our own parliament would you vote to join it? If you wouldn't vote to join it then why would you vote to stay in it?🤔
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Hypothetically, I agree with you.
But the reality is, you have to base your decision on where we are now and getting the best outcome. We can't turn back time unfortunately. We're already in and to go out would mean to literally go backwards.
I can see and understand the problems. They p*** me off, but going out doesn't change them and in my opinion the small changes we could make are not enough to offset the massive economic consequences.
Believe me, I would love to see England leave and be great, we save loads of money, we stop the immigrants, our economy grows exponentially... unfortunately all this will ever be is a dream.
The reality is, Our government could have stopped the 150,000 NON-eu migrants that entered the country in the last 12mths. They didn't!
The government will not give you a penny of anything they save. Austerity remember.
And as for growth, what will we sell to who? And how quickly?
If you could turn Britain back in time to any year, which year would you go back to? and what would that look like in a 2016 world?
Sorry if I'm ranting but I have gone through this a hundred times in my own head, because I really want to leave but have no logical justification for doing so. :-(
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I'm surprise that nobody mention the 24 million that the EU demanded because we did well last year and Camoron said no but after xmas he paid up.
this convince me as well as other things to leave the EU.
Let's have a banter![/size]If you don’t understand what all the fuss is about. Here is the EU put simply.A son goes to his Dad having saved up some money from his weekend job.Son “ Dad I’ve saved up £350 pounds to buy the new laptop I need for my college course”Dad “Well done son, give the money to me and I’ll help you”Son “Ok now what?”Dad “I will allow you £185 pounds back less my handling fee of £5 so £180 which you may only spend on a new phone”Son “But I need a laptop!”Dad “No, we’ve decided you can only buy a phone and you may only buy a phone from Germany and it must be pink. You must also source the phone within 2 days otherwise I will not release the money”Son “But it’s my money!”Dad “I’m afraid you are a member of this family and you must contribute to everyone else’s needs. I will decide how the money is spent”Son “So what happens to the £165?”Dad “Well your sister needs a new dress”Son “She has already had many new dresses”Dad “We’ve put it to the vote and I’m afraid you’re outvoted”Son “But I need a laptop to continue my course!”Dad “My decision is final”Son “But that’s not fair, will I ever have a say in how my money is spent”Dad “No, and by the way we’ve got a couple more people moving into your room and you’ll have to pay for their keep”Son “Well I’m leaving then”Dad “Don’t be like that lad, we need your money. And if you leave you won’t be able to buy a pink phone from Germany you’ll have to buy one here instead”Son “I NEED A LAPTOP!”[/color]
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It's going to be close.
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Ok, what happens if it is a dead heat ? :)
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I get the casting vote :thumbup
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It could be 1 pence for all I care the point still remains that it is our money that we sent to them and then THEY chose where it gos when it comes back
And what do you think would happen to it if we left? Do you *really* believe that the bunch of right-wing neo-liberals who would take over would give it to the NHS etc as they claim? Remember these are people who support the idea of *privatising* the health service!
No, what would more likely happen is that they would use it to cut taxes for their mates, leaving the rest of us still (or even more) screwed :(
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Ok, what happens if it is a dead heat ? :)
I'm Remain but hate Hipocracy - 1 vote to stay & we stay in. One vote to leave and "it's too important a decision when the vote is this close, instead of leaving we're going to...." and that annoys me even though it favours my opinion.
Cheers
Markie
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I'm surprise that nobody mention the 24 million that the EU demanded because we did well last year and Camoron said no but after xmas he paid up.
You are right I forgot about that one and it looks like everyone else has too- including the leaders of the out campaign
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I'm surprise that nobody mention the 24 million that the EU demanded because we did well last year and Camoron said no but after xmas he paid up.
You are right I forgot about that one and it looks like everyone else has too- including the leaders of the out campaign
Maybe because it is an actual true fact, something that is in short supply in both the remain/leave campaign.
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I'm surprise that nobody mention the 24 million that the EU demanded because we did well last year
Yes, it's like HMRC demanding you pay more taxes because you earned more money last year. It's SO UNFAIR!!!
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I reckon this will be like the Scottish Independence vote - before the vote everyone was told by the pro independence lobby that this was a "once in a lifetime" chance (presumably because if the won they'd want to make sure no one could push a re-vote)
But since they lost, they have been repeatedly saying how they will use new circumstances to push through another vote to try to get their minority position changed.
Had the vote been for Independence, the I'd guess the other side would now be pushing for another referendum as well.
It's always the way, if you lose a vote, then go for another referendum. In today's world, nothing is certain.
If we vote to Remain, there will undoubtedly be another referendum if things change.
If we vote to Leave, there will undoubtedly be a future referendum about re-joining.
The one certain thing about politics is that nothing is certain.
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I'm surprise that nobody mention the 24 million that the EU demanded because we did well last year
Yes, it's like HMRC demanding you pay more taxes because you earned more money last year. It's SO UNFAIR!!!
Yes, the way it's done is unfair - I'm all for everyone paying taxes, but if you earn £30k a year and pay £22% tax, why should you pay 50% when you earn over £150k.
Surely the idea of everyone paying the same % is what makes taxes fair.
Just think about it, because you work your socks off, put in loads of extra time, take risks with your personal life (investing in your career), you should give 50% of your earnings back. Sorry mate, but that's just wrong.
If we all pay the same %, the more you earn, the more you pay - that is totally fair.
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well said that man.
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Yes, the way it's done is unfair - I'm all for everyone paying taxes, but if you earn £30k a year and pay £22% tax, why should you pay 50% when you earn over £150k.
Surely the idea of everyone paying the same % is what makes taxes fair.
Imagine a pile of bricks needs to be moved. You have two people to do the work, one is 6' tall and built like a brick sh!thouse, the other is 5' tall and weighs 7 stone wringing wet.
The 7 stone person picks up a couple of bricks because that's all they can manage, staggers across to the new location and puts them down.
The 6' person picks up two bricks in one hand, strolls across and puts them down.
Surely the idea of everyone carrying the same load is what makes it fair...
If we all pay the same %, the more you earn, the more you pay - that is totally fair.
You forget that taxes like VAT are regressive, the less you earn, the more they affect you. Richer people do not spend the same proportion of their income as the poor do, so pay less.
But if you prefer a system of "Mine! Mine! Mine!" or "Screw you, I'm alright, Jack", that's up to your conscience.
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Your analogy Grahamm,
Imagine a pile of bricks needs to be moved. You have two people to do the work, one is 6' tall and built like a brick sh!thouse, the other is 5' tall and weighs 7 stone wringing wet.
The 7 stone person picks up a couple of bricks because that's all they can manage, staggers across to the new location and puts them down.
The 6' person picks up two bricks in one hand, strolls across and puts them down.
Surely the idea of everyone carrying the same load is what makes it fair...
I think you're agreeing me - if one is stronger, they carry proportionally more bricks.....
But, using your analogy, if the 7 stone person is half as strong as the 6' person, then the 6' person should carry double what the 7 stone person carries..... Nice and fair and balanced.
But.... What you're saying otherwise, the way I'm reading it, is because the 6' person is twice as strong, he should carry three times as many bricks - you're changing the ratio (just like my comments about 22% and 50% tax rates).
Like I said, I'm not one for the "I'm all right Jack" approach that you seem to misunderstand my comments as, I'm for everyone contributing the same proportionally. Equality for all in taxes.
But, I don't begrudge anyone who reaps the rewards of their efforts or the risks they take, why should we let jealousy rule our lives - unless the risks/efforts are from criminal activity, or cheating others - these people should have their assets seized, sold off and the proceeds given to their victims.
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I am tired of all this there are no facts bs. Here are some facts for you, deal with it :lol
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf4V2SstlMI#)
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:)
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I've generally been keeping on the side lines of this (on the forums) as I'm not up for a long drawn out debate behind a keyboard, however I will be voting Remain. In general I don't think either of the pro-leave and pro-remain groups who are actively pushing their agenda have done a particularly good job; there's been a lot of hyperbole, theory and scaremongering which has left, I believe, a large proportion of people confused.
Ultimately however, in my opinion, this feels almost similar to the last general election. I see* a lot more pro-leave propaganda and articles floating around and being broadcast just as I saw a lot more pro-Labour information, but I believe the actual vote will go the other way. I expect the general public to vote to Remain, though I'll admit it will probably be close; in the region of a 5-10 point difference
* This is based solely on my own personal experience and may not truly reflect the information that others see on a day-to-day basis
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Sometimes I think the polls have been faked in the past and also this time will predict an out vote just before voting with the sole purpose of energising the in camp to get out and vote
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meanwhile in Wales :rollin
([url]http://i3.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article11419549.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/beaver.jpg[/url])
GENIUS POST!!!! Hahahahahaa brilliant. Flippin needed that hehe...the polls are aswaying......got question time on now....
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Does it really matter to the ordinary Joe Public if UK are in or out of the EU. :rolleyes
Majority of those on welfare will not see and difference and probably won't bother voting which is the norm according to statistics.
Does not bother me what they, but will be a pain in the arse having to go through customs when going to Plymouth to get the ferry to Northern Spain :( fed up of riding down through France from Cherburg or Roscoff :eek
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Yes it matters because if the Jocks walk..there will be no rUK benefits system as the rUK will be on the bare bones of its arse and not able to service its debts.
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I think you're agreeing me - if one is stronger, they carry proportionally more bricks.....
No, I'm pointing out that, under the flat rate tax system that you advocate, those who can carry a proportionally larger burden *do not*.
It's not simply a case of "if everyone pays the same percentage of their income as tax, that's fair" because it ignores what's called the "marginal propensity to consume", ie the proportion of your income that you actually spend.
If you earn £1000 a month (after tax) and spend £1000 a month, your MPtC is 100%. If (to pick a figure) you earn £10,000 a month (after tax), however, you are very unlikely to spend £10,000 a month, you might spend (to pick another figure) £4000, ie your MPtC is 40%. The second person is left with £6000 a month to save, the first person has *nothing* to save because they have to spend it all to live.
It's all very well saying "equality in taxes", but the effect of tax on the low earners is *much* greater than the effect on the higher earners. Simply saying "they pay the same proportion" misses this fundamental issue. This is the misunderstanding that gives us the claims of the so-called "trickle down" effect where, supposedly, the poorer benefit from the richers' spending, except that much of what the richer people earn is *not* spent, but is put away in financial institutions which only benefit those who can actually afford to invest in them.
Getting back to the original subject about the "extra amount" that the EU "demanded" from us (according to the terms that *we* agreed to!), it goes to people who *will* spend it and put it back into circulation which is my point.
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Getting back to the original subject about the "extra amount" that the EU "demanded" from us (according to the terms that *we* agreed to!),
If then we did agree to it then why did Cameron make lots and lots of big noises saying we wont pay and then very quietly paid it when the British public wasn't looking, very trustworthy actions from a man telling us to stay in the EU.
Whenever an IN politician speaks they say they want to stay in a reformed EU, Cameron had his chance to make changes and got nothing even under the threat of a brexit the EU still gave him nothing so what chances are there of any EU reform if we vote to stay, it will be a green light for even more EU.
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But since they lost, they have been repeatedly saying how they will use new circumstances to push through another vote to try to get their minority position changed.
Putting aside for now that the Better Together campaign broke the terms of The Edinburgh Agreement and cheated in the closing stages of the Scottish Indy Ref;
Well we were repeatedly told by Better Together that an Indy Scotland would be thrown out of the EU and not be able to re-join, and that the way to ensure we remain as part of the EU, which it appears the majority of Scots wish to do so, was to reject Independence.
Vote NO to guarantee EU membership was the message.
Now there is the possibility of a major change in circumstance and Scotland possibly being dragged out of the EU against it’s will and contrary to what we had been promised in 2014. Hence there may be a drive for a second Indy Ref.
Yes, the way it's done is unfair - I'm all for everyone paying taxes, but if you earn £30k a year and pay £22% tax, why should you pay 50% when you earn over £150k.
I agree, you should pay 50% if you earn more than 150,000 a year, it should be more like 60%.
Let us not forget that there is a ceiling on NI contributions, you only pay NI contributions on your income up to a certain point. Further we have a great many flat rate taxes that impact on lower earners in a way that they do not on upper income earners. Ie VAT, petrol tax, insurance tax etc etc.
In the Uk the more you earn the less you pay in tax as a percentage of your income. It’s about time that was addressed.
Anyway VOTE REMAIN!
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Of course I haven't mentioned council tax, stamp duty, in fact the cost of housing in the first place, all that impacts on the working person in a way it simply does not on high earners and the rich.
What we have in the UK is in fact socialism in reverse, a sort of socialism for corporations and the rich.
But again none of these things are the fault of the EU.
People get the governments they deserve. Vote Tory and you deserve to get focced, unless you are rich or a member of the establishment that is.
And we'll get focced even more by the Tory scum bag bastards if we leave the EU when they scrap all the Eu employment laws.
Vote leave if you like it up the .........
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A farmer named Sam was overseeing his herd in a remote hilly pasture in Hereford when suddenly a brand-new BMW advanced toward him out of a cloud of dust. The driver, a young man in a Brioni® suit, Gucci® shoes, RayBan® sunglasses and YSL® tie, leaned out the window and asked the farmer, "If I tell you exactly how many cows and calves you have in your herd, will you give me a calf?"
Sam looks at the man, who obviously is a yuppie, then looks at his peacefully grazing animals and calmly answers, "Sure, why not?"
The yuppie parks his car, whips out his Dell® notebook computer, connects it to his Cingular RAZR V3® cell phone and surfs to a NASA page on the Internet, where he calls up a GPS satellite to get an exact fix on his location which he then feeds to another NASA satellite that scans the area in an ultra-high-resolution photo.
The young man then opens the digital photo in Adobe Photoshop® and exports it to an image processing facility in Hamburg, Germany ... within seconds, he receives an email on his Palm Pilot® that the image has been processed and the data stored. He then accesses an MS-SQL® database through an ODBC connected Excel® spreadsheet with email on his Blackberry® and, after a few minutes, receives a response.
Finally, he prints out a full-colour, 150-page report on his hi-tech, miniaturized HP LaserJet® printer, turns to the Farmer and says, "You have exactly 1,586 cows and calves."
"That's right. Well, I guess you can take one of my calves," says Sam.
He watches the young man select one of the animals and looks on with amusement as the young man stuffs it into the trunk of his BMW.
Then Sam says to the young man, "Hey, if I can tell you exactly what your business is, will you give me back my calf?"
The young man thinks about it for a second and then says, "Okay, why not?"
"You're a Member of the European Parliament", says Sam.
"Wow! That's correct," says the yuppie, "but how did you guess that?"
"No guessing required." answered Sam. "You showed up here even though nobody called you; you want to get paid for an answer I already knew, to a question I never asked. You used millions of Euros worth of equipment trying to show me how much smarter than me you are; and you don't know a thing about how working people make a living - or about cows, for that matter.
This is a herd of sheep. Now give me back my dog.”
AND THAT FRIENDS, so I am reliably told, IS WHY WE SHOULD LEAVE THE EU :lol :lol
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good joke Frostie :thumbup
I have one shorter and better:
Boris Johnson will make TV apology if Brexit triggers recession...
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Getting back to the original subject about the "extra amount" that the EU "demanded" from us (according to the terms that *we* agreed to!),
If then we did agree to it then why did Cameron make lots and lots of big noises saying we wont pay and then very quietly paid it when the British public wasn't looking, very trustworthy actions from a man telling us to stay in the EU.
Because he wanted to look "tough" to the public and the media. But if you think the Out campaign are being any more "trustworthy" then you're deluding yourself.
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Here's proof that the EU Referendum is just an internal squabble in the Tory Party that the rest of the country has been dragged into...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946)
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Getting back to the original subject about the "extra amount" that the EU "demanded" from us (according to the terms that *we* agreed to!),
If then we did agree to it then why did Cameron make lots and lots of big noises saying we wont pay and then very quietly paid it when the British public wasn't looking, very trustworthy actions from a man telling us to stay in the EU.
Because he wanted to look "tough" to the public and the media. But if you think the Out campaign are being any more "trustworthy" then you're deluding yourself.
Getting back to the original subject about the "extra amount" that the EU "demanded" from us (according to the terms that *we* agreed to!),
If then we did agree to it then why did Cameron make lots and lots of big noises saying we wont pay and then very quietly paid it when the British public wasn't looking, very trustworthy actions from a man telling us to stay in the EU.
Because he wanted to look "tough" to the public and the media. But if you think the Out campaign are being any more "trustworthy" then you're deluding yourself.
No you are right I do not trust anyone, the only person I trust is me.
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https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13507250_1009272175789000_1977233871333399887_n.jpg?oh=672de0dfab6e02b6500355b0973e6951&oe=57F42443 (https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13507250_1009272175789000_1977233871333399887_n.jpg?oh=672de0dfab6e02b6500355b0973e6951&oe=57F42443)
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13445239_1009266545789563_8372657085450940390_n.jpg?oh=a29525ab368737462e1ff58a1b726920&oe=5802F1E2)
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Here's proof that the EU Referendum is just an internal squabble in the Tory Party that the rest of the country has been dragged into...
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946[/url] ([url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946[/url])
Do you really believe that ? - "an internal squabble in the Tory Party that the rest of the country has been dragged into" ! As a country we've been complaining about EU unfairness for years.
Remember the BSE crisis - the French banned our beef because of a few cases of BSE. The French have had BSE in their beef cattle for years and never bothered doing anything about it, but oh no, as soon as there's an excuse, they go all parochial. Where was the EU governing body then, ensuring our free trade wasn't unfairly restricted (not to mention the lamb export issues), for ages after we'd sorted ours out.
Presumably 100% of the Labour Party and their MP's are all in full agreement on their position on the referendum and the EU, and the Lib Dems.......
This isn't about Party Politics, whatever the party. It's about the people deciding whether to be part of the EU, or not.
Honestly, I want us to stay in, but I just can't trust the whole EU enough, right now, to vote remain.
Especially after the EU leader's comments that "We have concluded a deal with the prime minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned".
According to him, we already have the best possible deal. If we vote to stay, how are we going to change things, or get a better deal - we've just been told it won't happen by the man in charge !
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The referendum is only an advisory, government could always say "you voted to leave, but we are not" :eek :eek
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Do you really believe that ? - "an internal squabble in the Tory Party that the rest of the country has been dragged into" !
Yes. Cameron only offered the Referendum to deal with the massive split in his Party in order to win the last election. Unfortunately he then found he had to make good on his offer.
The EU isn't perfect by any means, but Boris is just waving a bunch of bananas at the monkeys in the cage, promising them lots more if they'll vote for them, except if they do and he wins, they'll still be in the cage but they won't get the bananas.
I don't trust the EU, but I trust Boris, Michael, Nigel and Rupert Murdoch even less.
PS If you're undecided, consider this:
Voting Out will be an irrevocable step which will commit us to a path on which there's no turning back.
Voting In, however, does not preclude us leaving if the wheels come off in the future and at least gives us an option to try to change things for the better before that happens.
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Voting In, however, does not preclude us leaving if the wheels come off in the future and at least gives us an option to try to change things for the better before that happens.
No - Jean Claude Juncker (the voice of the EU) has clearly stated that we will NOT have an option to try to change things.
Which bit of "there will be no treaty negotiations of any kind" leads you to say that we CAN change it.
I don't trust our politicians either, not Boris, Michael or Nigel, but i rust Juncker and his unelected cronies far less.
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I am voting to leave ,but IMO the remain camp will win by 5% due to the amount of undecided voters who will more than likely , not want change .
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Especially after the EU leader's comments that "We have concluded a deal with the prime minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned".
According to him, we already have the best possible deal. If we vote to stay, how are we going to change things, or get a better deal - we've just been told it won't happen by the man in charge !
Yep that's right its a blatant lie when D.C keeps saying to stay in a reformed EU, there is no reforming it.
It will be an out vote then DC and Osborn will go, then there will be a leadership election in which Gove will be pm with Boris not wanting the job (yet) Nigel will be Lord Farage so he can be given a job on the cabinet
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I'm out...........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNzHDLnJVbA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNzHDLnJVbA)
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I'm out...........
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNzHDLnJVbA[/url] ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNzHDLnJVbA[/url])
"of the closet", :D .
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I have just been up to cast my vote and wasn't surprised to see a steady stream of people going in. The problem with that stream of people though are that it was all coffin dodgers who will not see any difference whichever way the vote goes today. the ones that it will affect are the ones that cant actually vote due to being too young.
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During the day I would expect it will be coffin dodgers, rest of us can`t get to vote till after 7pm when like me they finish work.
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:agree
The point I was trying to make (badly) was that in or out makes no difference to them really.
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I am voting out because I want a more powerfull vacuum cleaner and Europe says I cant. WHYYY. that sums them up. it is pathetic.
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The market has spoken. Pounds is going up very strongly today - we all know what that means: remain will win :)
Check it in real time here:
https://www.dailyfx.com/gbp-usd (https://www.dailyfx.com/gbp-usd)
It seems the common sense will prevail.
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No - Jean Claude Juncker (the voice of the EU) has clearly stated that we will NOT have an option to try to change things.
I don't think that is what he has said, and in any case it is not up to him.
If it is leave, and believe me I hope it is not, then DC will invoke EU article 50 - that is the process that allows any memeber step to leave. DC will then be thrown out of the room, and the remaining members discess our withdrawl.
We can apply to rejoin, but conditions of joining are accepting the Euro, we would have to accept the Schengen area (passport free movement), we wouldn't get a rebate and all the stuff we have vetoed we'd have to accept.
It does look like, once we are out we are out.
And talking of out, we hear a lot of whinging that people like Jean Claude Juncker are unelected, well once we are out David Cameron is toast, he will sooner than later stand down, and the UK will shortly after be lead by an unelcted PM up until the next General Election.
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It's the smart voter that votes out......... ;)
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:agree
The point I was trying to make (badly) was that in or out makes no difference to them really.
The coffin dodgers are likely as not to ones that voted us in, in the first place. But personally I do not think anyone over the age of 65 should have been allowed to vote in this referendum in the first place, and I am 67.But as I am able to vote my vot was to stay in by the way seeing as I live in France now, not fun to think that come tomorrow morning I may be an illegal immigrant. Still not to worried as if the vote is out I will just pull the old, seeing as I was born in N Ireland card and go get myself an Irish passport simples :rollin
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It's the smart voter that votes out......... ;)
side the tripe talk and puts the mark in the remain box :lol
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No - Jean Claude Juncker (the voice of the EU) has clearly stated that we will NOT have an option to try to change things.
I don't think that is what he has said, and in any case it is not up to him.
If it is leave, and believe me I hope it is not, then DC will invoke EU article 50 - that is the process that allows any memeber step to leave. DC will then be thrown out of the room, and the remaining members discess our withdrawl.
We can apply to rejoin, but conditions of joining are accepting the Euro, we would have to accept the Schengen area (passport free movement), we wouldn't get a rebate and all the stuff we have vetoed we'd have to accept.
It does look like, once we are out we are out.
And talking of out, we hear a lot of whinging that people like Jean Claude Juncker are unelected, well once we are out David Cameron is toast, he will sooner than later stand down, and the UK will shortly after be lead by an unelcted PM up until the next General Election.
You may not THINK that is what he said, but if you read the quotes, that is exactly what he said. He started using it in relation to our Leave vote, but finished by saying categorically that there was no more change to be had, Cameron had gotten the maximum the EU were prepared to give. If subsequently we do get more, as a result of a Remain vote, the J-P Juncker had publicly and undeniably lied to the entire British nation with the sole purpose of bullying us to comply with his/Eu's wishes - that would really sum up the EU and doubly justify why we should have voted Leave.
All of our PM's have been "unelected" - Labour, Tory, Liberal, whoever it may have been. In a general election we Do Not vote for a PM and we never have - im not sure you actually understand our electoral system? You're definitely confusing me on this.
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:agree
The point I was trying to make (badly) was that in or out makes no difference to them really.
The coffin dodgers are likely as not to ones that voted us in, in the first place. But personally I do not think anyone over the age of 65 should have been allowed to vote in this referendum in the first place, and I am 67.But as I am able to vote my vot was to stay in by the way seeing as I live in France now, not fun to think that come tomorrow morning I may be an illegal immigrant. Still not to worried as if the vote is out I will just pull the old, seeing as I was born in N Ireland card and go get myself an Irish passport simples :rollin
Lew - have you forgotten that we weren't told we were voting to join the EU - we were voting to join the EEC.
If that's what this vote was about, I'd be saying Remain - but it's not, the EU is completely different to the EEC and it's all of those differences that the Leave voters are rebelling against. If we'd been voting on the EU (and all it entails) in the 70's, it would have been a massive NO.
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One thing which seems to have been avoided is that the EU is what is holding down the interest rates. When you leave the interest rates will have to rise to maintain the strength of pound in the markets. Anyone with a large mortgage will end up paying much more. I remember back in the early paying 11% interest on my mortgage which rose to 18% at one stage in the late eighties, before the EU took control of banking and rate setting which brought it back to a more reasonable 5 to 7%.
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Gibraltar voted 95% to remain. Leave seems to win. Greetings from Spain; we are ready to close the fence, LOL
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Less than 5% in it at the moment, with some of the big sectors still to announce. Close and close enough I would say.
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Looks like leave has won it then save for a miracle at this point.
Since almost every section on Scotland voted remain, will this mean another independence referendum?
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Looks like leave has won it then save for a miracle at this point.
Since almost every section on Scotland voted remain, will this mean another independence referendum?
Confirmed now, we're out of Europe!
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Never mind Merkel
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I voted for out, but shit, I can't believe the result was leave. I genuingly thought the country would bottle it.
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How many more did the same? Mortgage holders beware now.
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All we need to do now is win the Euro's
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I voted leave too but I didn't think it would go this way, glad it did .
I think the biggest mistake the stay campaign made was the fear thing...I think british people are by nature polite and tolerant but don't respond well to threats , we just dig in and wont be bullied.
I am now off for a FULL ENGLISH down the café.. :)
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oh well, see you Europe, hello world commerce .............. hopefully :eek
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just seen on the news Cameron stepping down
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Wow! The bookies will be crying into their cornflakes this morning. :lol
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just seen on the news Cameron stepping down
I refer you to what I said way back in APRIL
If we vote out then Camoron AND Doshborn will both also be out too, because there is no way after all their doom-saying that they can then precide over what will be a smooth painless fast transition.
And again yesterday even when it was looking like an in vote
It will be an out vote then DC and Osborn will go, then there will be a leadership election in which Gove will be pm with Boris not wanting the job (yet) Nigel will be Lord Farage so he can be given a job on the cabinet
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Pound has nosedived.
Scotand has voted to remain.
Northern Ireland has voted to remain.
Westminster needs the cooperation of those two parliaments to leave.
As for Winston Churchill, he was in favour of uniting Europe.
Not a good day for the UK.
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Pound has nosedived.
The markets are run by silly children who get scared by the slightest thing.
Already as you write to say it has nosedived it is now rallying again.
There is no reason for the markets to change at all because right now we are still in the EU - we are still trading nothing has changed.
If the markets never go down then no one would ever make money out of them by buying when it dropped low, also when markets drop it means that people are selling - in other words cashing in on their past gains, they then wait until the drop in price is enough and then buy back the same ones that they have just sold.
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Traders have been rather bullish for the past few weeks (thinking it would be a remain result) and so £ and FTSE were already higher than normal so the drop is not as big in real terms as reported.
As you say, traders are a fickle, skittish lot, it will recover.
I voted leave but I'm keeping my head down among my friends on facebook, there is a lot of anger out there......
I'm not racist, I don't like Farrage, I'm actually on the blue side of the fence. I just don't think our infrastructure, especially here in the southeast can cope with the continued influx of immigrants. Refugees, let them in, if someon is running away from terror and a life of war then we shouldn't turn them away, no one should. But if they've come to work our fields, wash our cars, clean our offices they they all need houses, all need medical care. Where I live the council are being forced to build another 600 homes on green belt land in a town that's already struggling for schools, Drs, and social housing/care. Maybe if we didn't have this sudden influx in such high numbers, things might be different.
We have an NHS already struggling to cope with the people already living here let alone adding more to the list.
The people I'm talking about are the ones legally entitled to come here, and in great numbers, too great in my opinion for us to cope as a country.
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Not a good day for the UK?
65% of voters where I live think otherwise!
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Initial shock GBP £ bombs , just checked the markets looks as if it is a bouncing bomb, from a low this morning of €1.20 already back @€1.25 and still going up. Finland, Sweden and now Holland are looking to call for a referendum.
Looks as if the EU will implode or will become a club of 2 Germany and France + the other member states looking for a handout.
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I heard yesterday that even France were getting wobbly about staying in without the British helping fund their farmers.
Its all kicking off now in Westminster. Cameron has said he will leave and Labour MP's have tabled a vote of no confidence in the gnome. Looks like new leaders all round (apart from Farage)
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The stocks and money traders only make money on uncertainty (they're just professional gamblers), so it's their job to make sure the markets rise and fall - whether there's a reason, or not.
Just imagine, stable currencies, stable economies, wtf would stock market and money market traders do 😱.
We get screwed by these guys every time someone farts somewhere in the world - who do you think drove things up yesterday (and why did they do it 😉).
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(http://grpunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Good-Riddance-Press-Release-General-Photo.jpg)
:b
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well what a great day for GREAT britain, a fantastic result. now lets sort this country out and kick it back into shape. i cant figure out why people are worried. the loved ones before us had a few world wars to contend with. i have noticed it is the people who crave money all the time wanted in. well tuff shit bread heads.
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already remainders are wanting a second referendum .
they've put a petition up because it's below 60% ..I smell sour grapes.
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Forgive me lads , but how can it be democratic if only 2% less than half of those who voted wanted to remain in the EU? What it has done is divided the country and that is not something to be celebrating. Next thing is Scottish Independence and they look to go back in to the EU, There goes some of your main resources. If that happens Northern Ireland will follow suit or maybe reunite with the republic (god forbid, we have enough trouble looking after ourselves) :eek . There goes your United kingdom, the Great in Great Britain and the Union Jack dies a death. The EU funds for the major road upgrades in mid Wales pulled and then the death knell if Wales start thinking Independence.
It will be great for Ireland, the fact the UK left the EU as we will be the only English speaking country in the EU :woot which can only be to our advantage and a big cold wild sea around us to keep the unwanted out :lol
I wish you the best with increased Interest rates to prop up the Pound while it tries to regroup in an uncertain economy. :pokefun
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I keep reading articles regarding loss of jobs due to companies pulling out of the UK, personally I don't see the issue, if they loose their jobs they can just pack up and go home........... :eek
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unfazed. i just want my country back. i dont care what the cost is on a recent site in bristol there was 250 foreign, 150 british. most could not speak a word of BRITISH, is this right.? not in my opinion. also i must add that i got on and had a laugh with the few who spoke british. in this country quite a few people in there office jobs dont have to CONFRONT these people every day , well i do and i am getting pissed of, front line, :(
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unfazed. i just want my country back. i dont care what the cost is on a recent site in bristol there was 250 foreign, 150 british. most could not speak a word of BRITISH, is this right.? not in my opinion. also i must add that i got on and had a laugh with the few who spoke british. in this country quite a few people in there office jobs dont have to CONFRONT these people every day , well i do and i am getting pissed of, front line, :(
+1 on how immigration has changed the work place, we even have managers whom struggle with English.
And most are focin lazy, sure they take the jobs and turn up every day, but they're not productive, I have a couple of English women working on my line and they never complain, lazy foreign foc's moan all the time, ooooh it's to fast and making my arms ache, well foc off home then.
Was in an engineering company awhile back and just the same there.
Work has become a chore!
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Taylor,
I know understand exactly how you feel, the last time I rang to report my faulty phone line , I had to ask to speak to someone who actually spoke english properly :lol as I had absolutely no idea what the person was saying nor they I, even asked where the call centre was, to be told Dublin :rolleyes to which I replied "seriously"
Becaus of this many work advertisements now state "must have fluent english"
My son lives and works in Wales and he was one of four who applied for his permanent job, when it was advertised, not one UK person applied for it even though it was advertised and readvertised for over 6 months.
I just wonder if the cost of getting your country back is too high, for the sake of those voted out I hope not, but only time will tell, is it is too little too late. Many of the spongers followed the social welfare trail, because there were little or no restrictions, in the UK or Ireland.
Thankfully our big cold wild sea is a great deterrent.
Despite what Joebloggs says some of these people work hard and they are the ones I have no issue with, but because of what I work at I see all sides of it and because of all this Political Correctness I cannot always say what I am thinking or what should be said. :'(
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The fruit and veg farming and harvesting is more or less the domain of East Europeans? Anytime they interview the owner they complain that British people will not do this kind of work? Well I reckon when the dust settles and Boris and his other Nazi friends will cure this problem. If you are British and unemployed you will be bused to a farm and told to work. If you don't work you will go hungry as your dole and benefits will stop. Let's face it this referendum had nothing to do with the EU it was about immigration. Watching some of the vote out crowd being interviewed on TV, Planting and picking cabbages is about their intellectual level. :lol
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:agree
The point I was trying to make (badly) was that in or out makes no difference to them really.
The coffin dodgers are likely as not to ones that voted us in, in the first place. But personally I do not think anyone over the age of 65 should have been allowed to vote in this referendum in the first place, and I am 67.But as I am able to vote my vot was to stay in by the way seeing as I live in France now, not fun to think that come tomorrow morning I may be an illegal immigrant. Still not to worried as if the vote is out I will just pull the old, seeing as I was born in N Ireland card and go get myself an Irish passport simples :rollin
Lew - have you forgotten that we weren't told we were voting to join the EU - we were voting to join the EEC.
If that's what this vote was about, I'd be saying Remain - but it's not, the EU is completely different to the EEC and it's all of those differences that the Leave voters are rebelling against. If we'd been voting on the EU (and all it entails) in the 70's, it would have been a massive NO.
EU EEC call it what you want but a bus is still a bus.
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I voted leave but I'm keeping my head down among my friends on facebook, there is a lot of anger out there......
Do not tell them where you live, Boris has made that mistake already :lol
https://www.facebook.com/LADbible/videos/2752793458101160/ (https://www.facebook.com/LADbible/videos/2752793458101160/)
And never mind the Scotland or NI leaving the UK, London wants to leave too:
This is a “glorious opportunity for Britain”, Boris said in the tone of a political prisoner reading out a false confession.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-london-independence-time-to-leave-uk-eu-referendum-sadiq-khan-boris-johnson-a7100601.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-latest-london-independence-time-to-leave-uk-eu-referendum-sadiq-khan-boris-johnson-a7100601.html)
I have a question for you guys that voted leave.
If that is a great victory why Boris Johnson and Michael Gove speak like on funeral?? And say no need to haste and it will take 2 to 7 years to leave. Seriously?
The British people have expressed their wish to leave the EU. Leave means leave.
No backsies now :)
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:agree
The point I was trying to make (badly) was that in or out makes no difference to them really.
The coffin dodgers are likely as not to ones that voted us in, in the first place. But personally I do not think anyone over the age of 65 should have been allowed to vote in this referendum in the first place, and I am 67.But as I am able to vote my vot was to stay in by the way seeing as I live in France now, not fun to think that come tomorrow morning I may be an illegal immigrant. Still not to worried as if the vote is out I will just pull the old, seeing as I was born in N Ireland card and go get myself an Irish passport simples :rollin
Lew - have you forgotten that we weren't told we were voting to join the EU - we were voting to join the EEC.
If that's what this vote was about, I'd be saying Remain - but it's not, the EU is completely different to the EEC and it's all of those differences that the Leave voters are rebelling against. If we'd been voting on the EU (and all it entails) in the 70's, it would have been a massive NO.
EU EEC call it what you want but a bus is still a bus.
Ever been on a London bus recently Lew?
They refuse to take cash, and if you're not going too far it's actually cheaper for 4 people to get a cab than it is to board a bus journey with some arrogant fuckwit driving it like a lunatic.
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Ever been on a London bus recently Lew?
They refuse to take cash, and if you're not going too far it's actually cheaper for 4 people to get a cab than it is to board a bus journey with some arrogant fuckwit driving it like a lunatic.
I often carry 3 people around London for such eventualities :D
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I voted out, and when I voted in in 1975 I did not vote for a super government in Brussels I voted for a trade agreement, then the politicians high jacked it and made it the monster it is today.
So glad I voted OUT.
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the
mechanics German, the lovers Italian and it's all organised by the
Swiss. Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the
lover's Swiss, the police German and it's all organised by the Italians.
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Let's face it this referendum had nothing to do with the EU it was about immigration.
[/quote]c
O
well said lew, at last a chance for the people to speak and the best turn out in 20 years shows just how strongly people are feeling.....not the best way of showing how they feel as it will create other problems/difficulties ........imigration/nhs/employment are probably the main worries for all the working class in this country and the ones that are seen every day, this vote was not all about that but has been used to show how the mojority are feeling..........time to think now for both sides, nothing happening until loct/nov , in my eyes that was a close vote 48%/ 52% .....not sure if iam correct here and PLEASE correct me if iam wrong....but can the government still step in and reverse the decision ?
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The EU wants us out straight away, and the Mayor of Calais wants to move the 'Jungle' over to Dover. Told you so.....
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UK passports' are European Union model ones aren't they, so does that mean everyone has got to renew when we actually leave?.
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the
mechanics German, the lovers Italian and it's all organised by the
Swiss. Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the
lover's Swiss, the police German and it's all organised by the Italians.
I have never agreed with you before , but you have got this right. :rollin
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UK passports' are European Union model ones aren't they, so does that mean everyone has got to renew when we actually leave?.
I would say for sure there is no way the government is going to miss out on a money spinner like that.
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the
mechanics German, the lovers Italian and it's all organised by the
Swiss. Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the
lover's Swiss, the police German and it's all organised by the Italians.
I have never agreed with you before , but you have got this right. :rollin
True. You are wrong most of the time. :)
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The EU wants us out straight away, and the Mayor of Calais wants to move the 'Jungle' over to Dover. Told you so.....
Immediate closure of the Channel Tunnel until "our" Border Control have full control over access to the tunnel and can prevent the influx of illegals :thumbup
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look like things are not going the way we expect it for leave voters....
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1339162/pro-eu-mps-in-secret-plot-to-scupper-vote-to-leave-the-single-market/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/1339162/pro-eu-mps-in-secret-plot-to-scupper-vote-to-leave-the-single-market/)
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Does leaving mean we can buy two-strokes again?! :woot
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Because the EU law states that no country can be forced out of the EU eg. Scotland and Northern Ireland, both England and the Wales parliments will have to negotiate with both of these countries before it can happen and this could scupper any plans. They cannot change EU law until they are out and until then they have no choice but to operate within the law
Also the referendum was an advisory which means it does not have to be acted on. The people in England and Wales said they wanted Out of the EU and Scotland and Northern Ireland said the wanted to Remain in the EU.
Stalemate I would think. :eek
It would be better if you like us stopped coming in to the country unless they had jobs to go to, which most would not and are a drain on to easy to get welfare resources. Free movement yes but it does not say you cannot stop them if they have no jobs to go to. :rolleyes
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Because the EU law states that no country can be forced out of the EU eg. Scotland and Northern Ireland, both England and the Wales parliments will have to negotiate with both of these countries before it can happen and this could scupper any plans. The people in England and Wales said they wanted Out of the EU and Scotland and Northern Ireland said the wanted to Remain in the EU.
Stalemate I would think. :eek
Rubbish. The country in question is the UK. The UK has voted out. Whilst Scotland and N.I. are parts of the UK, that means they are out too.
If they wish to hold referendums to leave the UK, then they can negotiate to rejoin the EU once they have independence.
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Forgive me lads , but how can it be democratic if only 2% less than half of those who voted wanted to remain in the EU? What it has done is divided the country and that is not something to be celebrating. Next thing is Scottish Independence and they look to go back in to the EU, There goes some of your main resources. If that happens Northern Ireland will follow suit or maybe reunite with the republic (god forbid, we have enough trouble looking after ourselves) :eek . There goes your United kingdom, the Great in Great Britain and the Union Jack dies a death. The EU funds for the major road upgrades in mid Wales pulled and then the death knell if Wales start thinking Independence.
It will be great for Ireland, the fact the UK left the EU as we will be the only English speaking country in the EU :woot which can only be to our advantage and a big cold wild sea around us to keep the unwanted out :lol
I wish you the best with increased Interest rates to prop up the Pound while it tries to regroup in an uncertain economy. :pokefun
Politics and the voting systems are never fair, except the part where everyone agrees on the "majority wins" and that is what OUR democracy is based on.
That's the way we do it and there were 4% more (2% more than half is still more than half) voters went for Leave. Under our way of doing things, that is democracy at workand that means Leave won fair and square. Because you don't like it, don't go claiming undemocratic - what is undemocratic is refusing to accept a democratically achieved result.
Had Remain won by 4%, I'm sure you wouldn't be on here spouting about it being undemocratic - and I for one wouldn't be shouting down the result, I'd be supporting the majority decision of my compatriots and then doing everything I could to make it work.
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Taylor,
I know understand exactly how you feel, the last time I rang to report my faulty phone line , I had to ask to speak to someone who actually spoke english properly :lol as I had absolutely no idea what the person was saying nor they I, even asked where the call centre was, to be told Dublin :rolleyes to which I replied "seriously"
Becaus of this many work advertisements now state "must have fluent english"
My son lives and works in Wales and he was one of four who applied for his permanent job, when it was advertised, not one UK person applied for it even though it was advertised and readvertised for over 6 months.
Unfazed, nothing to contribute but just as story time.. I was the other side of that call once. I moved to Ireland from India, and while I was working in Castlebar (of all places!) as a Software Engineer, and went out of my way to support a project with RCH (because I love what they do) and got on the phone with them, and they were dead certain I am in a call center in Delhi (never been to Delhi myself) and generally went on about it for way too long. I was p1ssed, but meh, you learn to cope with this stuff after a while.
I now work for another IT firm in Dublin, and I've moved up enough ranks over the years and I have been involved in recruiting over 20 of current engineers. Since 2010 or so, everytime we put an add out it's .. crickets.. Naada. Then we get the usual recruitment agents pushing Polish or Spanish CVs. In fairness almost all Polish engineers we have taken in have been exceptional. Italian/Spanish engineers also generally good, but some bad ones. Over these years the amount of Irish CVs are truly negligible. I am not talking about poorly paid jobs either - my company is a very large multi-national and pays average market rates. Right now we are losing people left right and center. And the company response is to make teams in Easter Europe and Asia bigger than ever. That's just how it is, unfortunately.
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The vote was won by outers and lost by inners that is it - end of. What we should all do now is unite and get behind the result - support it and make it work.
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The vote was won by outers and lost by inners that is it - end of. What we should all do now is unite and get behind the result - support it and make it work.
Absolutely !
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I feel another general election will be called after a new conservative leader
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the
mechanics German, the lovers Italian and it's all organised by the
Swiss. Hell is where the chefs are British, the mechanics French, the
lover's Swiss, the police German and it's all organised by the Italians.
I have never agreed with you before , but you have got this right. :rollin
True. You are wrong most of the time. :)
:) I voted remain,
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.
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The vote was won by outers and lost by inners that is it - end of. What we should all do now is unite and get behind the result - support it and make it work.
Well No. In fact there are two chances of that, one – none, and two – fuck all.
Firstly, remember why we had this referendum. It was to unite the conservative party in order to win a general election. It wasn’t because it was a good idea (it patently was not), or because the Prime Minister wanted to hold it, or because even a majority of MP’s wanted it.
Secondly, this is unprecedented. A lot of halfwits, who apparently had never in their lives before voted (and I’m not talking first time voters), registered to vote and voted leave. So I’ll explain what unprecedented means, it means we’ve never done this before, which in turns means nobody knows exactly how to do it.
Thirdly – what we do know. Two countries in our Union voted to LEAVE, two voted to REMAIN.
Now as some of you know I’m a Scot. Scotland voted decisively to REMAIN. Our government will do everything it can to keep Scotland in the EU. That means we won’t be cooperating with any UK withdrawal from the EU. Membership of the EU is written into the parliaments of Northern Ireland and Scotland as well as the Welsh assembly.
Scotland has 54 SNP MP’s at Westminster. They will vote against any legislation to leave the EU. I would expect the other 3 Scottish MPs to do likewise.
The dirty filthy gutter rag the Sun is for once correct. 490 out of 650 MPs in the commons are REMAIN MPs. For the UK to leave the EU they have to vote against their own strongly held beliefs and principles. And on what? A referendum that should never have been held.
So our Scottish MP’s will be voting against any legislation to LEAVE the EU, and they will be doing everything they can on the behalf of the Scottish people to get the other 433 pro EU MPs to do the same.
Some of you might not like it. But that my friends is how our democracy works.
So as the referendum was not legally binding, do not assume, for even one minute, that you will actually be leaving the EU.
Have a nice day BREXITers! :D
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Not legally binding?
Why do you want Scotland to break away? What is it about been in the UK do Scotland really not like or want?
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MP are not there to represent themselves, they are there to represent the people in their constituency, and it is about time they remembered that.
As for Scottish independence its odd that all my relatives still in Scotland don't want to split from the UK, most of them think the SNP wants to turn Scotland into a one party state.
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MP are not there to represent themselves, they are there to represent the people in their constituency, and it is about time they remembered that.
No, MPs should represent the best interests of their constituents. As such, and rightly so, many will vote against any legislation put before the house that would remove the UK from the EU.
As for Scottish independence its odd that all my relatives still in Scotland don't want to split from the UK, most of them think the SNP wants to turn Scotland into a one party state.
For your information the SNP is the minority government of Scotland. It can only government with consensus. The Scottish Parliament is designed such that it should be impossible for any one party (in other words the SNP) to hold a majority. Such is the popularity of the SNP in Scotland that they have already achieved the impossible once – that was the last term. But as I said currently they are a minority government.
Whilst I am not a member of the SNP, I think I can assure you and your family that the SNP have no dictatorial ambitions.
Anyway, don’t forget BREXITers that we are still, today, members of the EU, and it will take one hell of a foccing effort to get us out.
Oh just a wee thought. Does anybody remember a couple of months ago Boris talking about using a LEAVE vote in order to negotiate a new membership deal with Europe?
Hmmmm. ;)
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aye they do--I was a party member for 22 years mate---and they are worse than the Labour party.
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Christopher Everard (https://www.facebook.com/ChristopherEverard?fref=nf)[/size]
MORE BBC LIES EXPOSED: £1 BRITISH POUND = 1.24 euros - that is 25% HIGHER than it was at the time of the 2015 General Election - the BBC are lying this morning[/color][/size] - the value of the £1 three days ago was 1euro=79p RIGHT NOW is is 1euro=81p - a shift of just 2p which will be corrected as soon as Cameron buggers off. It has made BRITISH GOODS such as all our great sports cars - Caterham, Morgan, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Noble, Corsica's, Wilkins, XJ13s etc BETTER VALUE. It is the EURO which has CRASHED and will continue to CRASH because there is now a £361 MILLION POUND PER WEEK HOLE in the EU budget - yes, British people's taxes which have been illegally used to pay GERMAN PENSIONERS £449 PER WEEK when our Brits can't afford to eat nor heat. The BBC are trying to cook up a FAKE RECESSION - shout them down on Social Media.[/font]
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I think you'll find the value of the £ bombed.. but then so did the value of the €. So against the Euro we look ok, but against the rest of the world we are down.
Great conspiracy theory though. Don't believe all the s*** you read on the internet. Always be cynical, question everything, check and make your own opinion.
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I don't really know what all the fuss is about, I was around before we joined Europe and it was fine, we aint all gonna burst into flames if we go it alone. Scotland had a vote to be independent, it voted to stay with the UK, the UK had a vote to be independent it voted to leave EU.
that's democracy.. lets leave, get on with it and talk about motorbikes.. :)
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I don't really know what all the fuss is about, I was around before we joined Europe and it was fine, we aint all gonna burst into flames if we go it alone. Scotland had a vote to be independent, it voted to stay with the UK, the UK had a vote to be independent it voted to leave EU.
that's democracy.. lets leave, get on with it and talk about motorbikes.. :)
I agree, old enough to remember all the shite that got spouted before we joined the Common Market, the problem today is the people did not do what the politicians and their toadying supporters told them to do and they are all shitting themselves.
Anyway I had a quick blast on my FZ1s round some of my favourite local roads for an hour and half. :)
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I don't really know what all the fuss is about
You are probably right.
It'll take years of negotiation and mucking about at Westminster. Westminster will also realise that if Scotland has another referendum this time it will go.
So after about a year or so of fathing about, either we'll just be told it's impossible to get out, the instability and tourmoil etc as a result of trying ain't worth it etc etc, and/or new improved membership terms will be agreed and maybe we have a another referendum on the EU, which of course this time REMAIN will win.
Aye, it's a funny old thing politics :lol
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(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13529237_1209839639026559_2111590883202480128_n.jpg?oh=c376bd3159b509fddcc18a8d17eba6b8&oe=57F93DB5)
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Rubbish. The country in question is the UK. The UK has voted out. Whilst Scotland and N.I. are parts of the UK, that means they are out too.
If they wish to hold referendums to leave the UK, then they can negotiate to rejoin the EU once they have independence.
Sorry to disagree with you Nick and I am an unbiased outsider looking in from outside the UK.
A little history lesson here. The UK is a union of 4 countries and are seen as 4 countries by EU law because they have 4 seats of governments, London, Cardiff, Edinburgh and Belfast and operate as a union with day to day running controlled by these governments.
It is the Union of these governments that control the rest.
The people who voted out in my opinion were misinformed, the only issue most voted out was because of the emigration issues.
This is Ironic coming from a country that invaded half the world and now want to leave the EU because of Emigration :pokefun
The EU is a loose voluntarily confederation of 28 countries with no tax raising powers of its own. It is the member states not the EU itself that have the taxing power to redistribute the wealth to losers which some have gained from the rapid increase in economic activity that is taking place across national boundaries, which includes the way that goods, services and financial capital are produced, traded and moved around the whole world.
The UKs investment in productivity improvement has not been good and the Exit voters have mistakenly blamed the EU for the effects and these omissions and under performance of successive UK governments.
Those who promoted the EXIT now have no plan in place of what to do next because they did not expect it to happen and have been caught out without a plan. Boris Johnson has himself in a serious porition “If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over – Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession … broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this and is reason he gibbering when asked "what next?". :eek Farage is denying comments he made early in the campaign about funding the Hospitals schools and GPs with money saved. :eek
It is like the scene from film the Life of Brian "what did the Romans ever do for us" no substitute the Romans for EU and read the link below to see what EU funding was provided to Wales look here (over a billion): http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/19-things-european-funding-done-10939396 (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/19-things-european-funding-done-10939396) and this is from a country who voted to leave :eek
Back to the important issues for me, I going out now to sort my bike out for the morning and put new Motad down pipes on my sons 600 :thumbup
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Nobody has lost anything.
As at his time we are still members of the EU. And as I have explained getting out, is not only undesirable but perhaps unachievable.
Does nobody remember Boris's comments on voting to leave in order to obtain a better deal?
The UK leave the EU? Seriously, not for a long time, and I'll believe it only when it's actually happened.
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I'm sorry, did I post something in a political thread? :eek I haven't been well lately, pay no heed :lol
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:D'
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Except of course it turns out that the petition was started before the Referendum by a 'Leaver'. Is it you Dazza ? :rollin
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I'm sorry, did I post something in a political thread? :eek I haven't been well lately, pay no heed :lol
To long touring EU countries :pokefun :D
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Guys there may be a happy end after all :thumbup
It appears if Boris is the next PM he will go for EEA. Hat off to him for trying to unite the UK people after that divisive vote.
Boris Johnson says the UK will continue to "intensify" cooperation with the EU following the country's vote to leave.
In his first words since accepting the result of the EU referendum on Friday, Mr Johnson wrote that "the only change" would be to free the UK from the EU's "extraordinary and opaque" law, which "will not come in any great rush".
The leading pro-Leave campaigner said exit supporters must accept the 52-48 result was "not entirely overwhelming".
And yet we who agreed with this majority verdict must accept that it was not entirely overwhelming.
There were more than 16 million who wanted to remain. They are our neighbours, brothers and sisters who did what they passionately believe was right. In a democracy majorities may decide but everyone is of equal value.
'Single market access'
His column said: "I cannot stress too much that Britain is part of Europe, and always will be.
"There will still be intense and intensifying European cooperation and partnership in a huge number of fields: the arts, the sciences, the universities, and on improving the environment.
"EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU.
"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI - the BDI - has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.
"The only change - and it will not come in any great rush - is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU's extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal."
Correct me if I am wrong, but the above looks like EEA agreement? IMO this is the fastest and best way to end this and make happy both camps. Although some of the people that voted for Leave may not be so happy.
Nigel and the aging racists spring to my mind :rollin
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36637037)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/i-cannot-stress-too-much-that-britain-is-part-of-europe--and-alw/)
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Cornwall and Wales voted out both the largest recievers of EU grants. both still want that cash when we stop paying the EU.
So I fully support the independance for Wales and Cornwall campaigns and wonder how soon we can get shot of them.
Then we may stand a chance of getting some of this cash we are supposed to be getting back from the EU to spend on the health service.
Then we have just got to find a way of stopping the subsidies to the farmers. :deal
with the drop in the markets looks like there are going to be plenty of pensioners wanting to earn a bit of cash so we can ship them off to the east of the country veg picking to replace are those eastern Europeans that will will be kicking out soon :D https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/14/tory-minister-wanted-uk-pensioners-to-be-low-wage-fruit-pickers (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/14/tory-minister-wanted-uk-pensioners-to-be-low-wage-fruit-pickers)
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Razgruff has got it sorted. Razgruff for PM :thumbup
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some people seem to think its all about immigration.
in part yes but mostly to take back control of our once great country to govern and make our own laws.
why would you remainers want everything control by unelected and unaccountable governing bodies to tell you what you can do or cant do with your country.
I'm not ashamed to admit that I voted leave.
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Immigration will fall naturally.
Even if we retain, which I hope we do, the free movement we have within the EU to allow workers, holiday makers, pensioners etc to live and work wherever we want within Europe, migration will fall because we will stop paying non UK citizens any benefits. This will on its own reduce the reasons people come to this country.
As Scotland, Wales and NI all receive more in EU subsidies than they pay, I doubt the EU would want them back. As it is, other member countries will need to pay more to cover the loss of the UK payments.
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Except of course it turns out that the petition was started before the Referendum by a 'Leaver'. Is it you Dazza ? :rollin
Better than that, the idea was first mentioned by their Fuhrer a week before the petition was created.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017)
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We will stop paying non-UK citizens any benefits s
And of course 95% of EU citizens living in the UK are in employment, and they pay taxes. A much greater proportion than UK citizens
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The shape of things to come?
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I've just brought my lunch up :look
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And of course 95% of EU citizens living in the UK are in employment, and they pay taxes. A much greater proportion than UK citizens
Yes, but there are a proportion who are here claiming child benefit, and other benefits like housing benefits, which make the UK more appealing than staying in their home country. Removing these benefits and leaving them with just their earnings will make them think twice and therefore reduce the cost to the UK taxpayer by reducing the benefits we pay out.
Unemployed English people will have the option of taking the now vacant jobs and we end up paying even less benefits to them.
The downside that will affect some is that the local car was will no longer exist as some British unemployed see that as too much effort for the money.
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http://www.fabians.org.uk/brexit-voters-not-the-left-behind/ (http://www.fabians.org.uk/brexit-voters-not-the-left-behind/)
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The vote was won by outers and lost by inners that is it - end of. What we should all do now is unite and get behind the result - support it and make it work.
Well No. In fact there are two chances of that, one – none, and two – fuck all.
Firstly, remember why we had this referendum. It was to unite the conservative party in order to win a general election. It wasn’t because it was a good idea (it patently was not), or because the Prime Minister wanted to hold it, or because even a majority of MP’s wanted it.
Secondly, this is unprecedented. A lot of halfwits, who apparently had never in their lives before voted (and I’m not talking first time voters), registered to vote and voted leave. So I’ll explain what unprecedented means, it means we’ve never done this before, which in turns means nobody knows exactly how to do it.
Thirdly – what we do know. Two countries in our Union voted to LEAVE, two voted to REMAIN.
Now as some of you know I’m a Scot. Scotland voted decisively to REMAIN. Our government will do everything it can to keep Scotland in the EU. That means we won’t be cooperating with any UK withdrawal from the EU. Membership of the EU is written into the parliaments of Northern Ireland and Scotland as well as the Welsh assembly.
Scotland has 54 SNP MP’s at Westminster. They will vote against any legislation to leave the EU. I would expect the other 3 Scottish MPs to do likewise.
The dirty filthy gutter rag the Sun is for once correct. 490 out of 650 MPs in the commons are REMAIN MPs. For the UK to leave the EU they have to vote against their own strongly held beliefs and principles. And on what? A referendum that should never have been held.
So our Scottish MP’s will be voting against any legislation to LEAVE the EU, and they will be doing everything they can on the behalf of the Scottish people to get the other 433 pro EU MPs to do the same.
Some of you might not like it. But that my friends is how our democracy works.
So as the referendum was not legally binding, do not assume, for even one minute, that you will actually be leaving the EU.
Have a nice day BREXITers! :D
Funnily enough, I've been expecting this reply, but didn't expect it from you - I see you mention that Scotland has 54 MP's in Westminster and that they will all vote against the decision to Leave - well fook me if that doesn't sum up the stupidity of our system.
1.8 million voters in Scotland get 54 MP's and they're going to try to scupper the vote of 17 million other UK voters.
4 million UKIP voters get 1 MP - basically ineffective in parliamentary voting.
If ever there was an over-represented minority, Scotland is it !
Now, I'm definitely not a UKIP supporter, but it am a bit fed up of this whole argument and especially Nicola Sturgeon (having now "lost" two referendum's she's going all out to overturn them - what a surprise). The MAJORITY of Scottish voters, voted not long ago to stay in the UK and part of that meant abiding with the UK constitution and the well known, well followed, way of doing things. The majority of Scotland's voters (but I suspect not you - although I may be wrong) voted to be in, and act as part of, the U.K.
Scotland's voter's votes counted in the EU referendum just as much as every English, Irish, or Welsh members of the U.K., one vote per voter, and the majority of the UK's voters went for Leave. Please just accept it and stop moaning on about how it was all a Tory party unity scam referendum - it most certainly was not.
No one that I know, or have spoken to, felt that this was anything to do with the Tory party. - EVERYONE was certain that they were voting were voting on whether to be part of the EU or not. FFS the labour leader was campaigning for the same thing as DC - that's a really good strategy for DC to take to unite the Tories - promise something that your main opposition are supporting as a way to unite you party, really ?[size=78%].[/size]
If that's the case, then obviously I'm too stupid and naive to be a politician (which I'm fine with).
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As Scotland, Wales and NI all receive more in EU subsidies than they pay, I doubt the EU would want them back. As it is, other member countries will need to pay more to cover the loss of the UK payments.
I suspect that Scotland probably does do well out of the EU. The EU rural development fund has done much for our rural communities, a lot of investment that frankly I don't think Westminster would have otherwise made. And it's investment that has paid off.
Now Scotland is a wealthy country, the 48th wealthiest in the world (not bad considering our tiny population). In terms of GDP per person we are the 14th wealthiest country in the world. And Scotland has contributed to the industrialisation and modernisation of the world like no other. We are the 12th largest economy in the EU as it is, and obviously again rank higher in terms of GDP per person.
Anyway Scotland is in the EU, it is a matter of whether we are to be dragged out against our will by England or not.
Further your logic doesn’t add up. The EU takes’ developing’ nations in as new members, invests in them as members, diversifying and strengthening the EU economy as a whole.
There is only one reason that the EU may not want Scotland as a returning member (assuming we were forced to leave by England), and that is that Spain may try to veto Scotland’s membership.
Removing these benefits and leaving them with just their earnings will make them
think twice and therefore reduce the cost to the UK taxpayer by reducing the benefits we pay out.
You know perhaps there are some benefit reforms and trimming required here and there. But, look, it’s pin money. Yet again benefits are being used by the establishment to pull the wool over the eyes of working people. What about the Amazon’s, the Googles, Vodaphone, Starbucks and the multitude of other multinational companies that come here, make a fortune here, but pay no tax. That’s where the money is, that’s what needs sorted.
The French are moving on this, and we should be pulling together with the French within the EU to get new laws passed that ensures that these big companies pay their dues in every country within the EU in which they trade. Westminster ain’t gonna do it, and the working man in England continues to be blinded by benefits and xenophobia!
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1.8 million voters in Scotland get 54 MP's and they're going to try to scupper the vote of 17 million other UK voters.
4 million UKIP voters get 1 MP - basically ineffective in parliamentary voting.
If ever there was an over-represented minority, Scotland is it !
Naturally I disagree Millietant :D Scotland has only 57 MP’s out of 650 MP’s. You know the last referendum in the UK was on voting reform. The UK rejected voting reform. I think that was a mistake, but we have what we have. And Scotland is most certainly not over represented.
Now, I'm definitely not a UKIP supporter, but it am a bit fed up of this whole argument and especially Nicola Sturgeon (having now "lost" two referendum's she's going all out to overturn them - what a surprise). The MAJORITY of Scottish voters, voted not long ago to stay in the UK and part of that meant abiding with the UK constitution and the well known, well followed, way of doing things. The majority of Scotland's voters (but I suspect not you - although I may be wrong) voted to be in, and act as part of, the U.K.
Nicola Sturgeon’s SNP lost the Independence referendum, but let us not forget that Better Together insisted that Scots who wished to remain as part of the EU must vote to remain in the UK. We were told the only way to guarantee our continued membership of the EU was to vote NO in the Indy ref.
Now, if we do indeed have BREXIT (I have my doubts as I’ve already spelled out), we in Scotland will be dragged out of the EU against our will. That represents a broken promise and a major material change in our country. Many NO voters feel that have been conned. And with such a significant material change, well I don’t think anybody will be able to stop another INDY REF, and I think we all know what the result will be. And that in turn means the end of The United Kingdom and Great Britain.
And please, the SNP, The Scottish Labour Party, The Scottish Tory Party, The Scottish Lid Dems and The Scottish Greens all won in Scotland last Thursday. Scotland’s political parties are united on this issue and they won a decisive mandate from the Scottish people to go out there and fight to keep us in Europe.
Scotland's voter's votes counted in the EU referendum just as much as every English, Irish, or Welsh members of the U.K., one vote per voter, and the majority of the UK's voters went for Leave. Please just accept it and stop moaning on about how it was all a Tory party unity scam referendum - it most certainly was not.
The UK is what it says it is – a union. Two countries voted out, two countries voted to remain. Why should England decide the way forward for Northern Ireland or Scotland against the will of their people. REMAIN won in Scotland. REMAIN won in Northern Ireland. We are not leaving the EU.
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Just to get technical ....... Wales isn't a separate country. It doesn't have a government, it has an Assembly (with far fewer powers). Within the United Kingdom there are only 3 'countries' - Scotland, Northern Ireland, and 'England & Wales'.
Scotland and Ireland were separate Kingdoms which joined in Unions, but Wales was just ....... annexed. So technically two thirds of the UK decided to stay :D
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Sorted! We REMAIN!
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Slaninar's link
An interesting read. Just watched BBC London news interviewing voters on Canvey Island (near me) and I wept ....
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gotta love the Brexiters banging on about being governed (when they're not. they just have to adhere to a few rules of the club) from Brussells some 300 miles away from England.
Who can't grasp the concept of Scotland being governed from London some 300 miles away from Scotland. and wanting independence :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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Scotland's currency could have a big effect on GDP after independence Scotland is a comparatively rich country when you consider that the population is relatively small, but the figures being used are looking at the position of Scotland as it currently stands within the set-up of the UK.
Much would depend on the negotiations after the referendum, and the investment decisions of big companies.
The size of any country's GDP is hugely affected by the currency too, so if whether or not Scotland were to stay in a Sterling currency union, could have a big effect.
The GDP per person figures also do not show how wealth is spread out within a country. Scotland may well be comparatively rich as an independent country, but whether or not large parts of the population would "feel rich" would depend on the policies of a post-independence Scottish government.
How much would the GDP of Scotland change if it became independent?
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England are definitely going out of EUROpe! :b
(http://media.newindianexpress.com/Iceland-AP.jpg/2016/06/28/article3503064.ece/alternates/w620/Iceland-AP.jpg)
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And it wasn't even a EU team :eek
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England are definitely going out of EUROpe! :b
No offence guys but I need to post this one :lol
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ykceh4.jpg)
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Englishman, Scotsman, Welshman and Irishman walk into a pub. Then immediately they all get out, because the Englishman wants to exit.
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Englishman, Scotsman, Welshman and Irishman walk into a pub. Then immediately they all get out, because the Englishman wants to exit.
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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So just this morning Gove has said he is running and just a few moments ago Borris has made an "astonishing shock" announcement that he will NOT be standing.
Here is what I said on the 23rd June when it was even looking like a stay vote
It will be an out vote then DC and Osborn will go, then there will be a leadership election in which Gove will be pm with Boris not wanting the job
Dont worry about my Osborne will be going prediction because as soon as there is a new leader and HE has a reshuffle Dosh-born will be gone
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I wonder if they'll reverse the decision to exit blaming those who stood before for the result
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6gDUUhqsYmd7tHEY/giphy.gif)
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I was speaking to some pole,s today they want us out as well. they are also fed up with the mess.
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Lots of anti-English "racism" going on here !
I'm not one for jumping on the pc bandwagon, but it doesn't seem fair that there's criticism and arrests for racism regarding jokes about other countries and ethnicities, but it's perfectly OK to be racist about the English.
I'm hurt and shocked that the Remainers would sink to this level.
Incoming.......................
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Two wrongs do not make a right.
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saying this as a proud welsh man, at the end of the day we are all BRITISH, when push comes to shove I would stand side by side with my countrymen, shoulder to shoulder. 5uck the rest.
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saying this as a proud welsh man, at the end of the day we are all BRITISH, when push comes to shove I would stand side by side with my countrymen, shoulder to shoulder. 5uck the rest.
:agree :rollin
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A pre emptive strike on France and Europe will be all mine.....er ours
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saying this as a proud welsh man, at the end of the day we are all BRITISH, when push comes to shove I would stand side by side with my countrymen, shoulder to shoulder. 5uck the rest.
Of all the things I've seen and people I've met - I'd say we're all brothers... and idiots as well. Same good and bad things wherever you go.
...well, except the French... and the Hungarians... :rollin
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Why does no one from any other country seem to like the French? :)
Maybe we should all stay in the EU and just kick the French out.
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France is great country only spoilt by the locals :pokefun
To be fair, most of the locals are fine. It is a Parisians and unions at are the problem.
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Maybe we should all stay in the EU and just kick the French out.
:rollin
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Why does no one from any other country seem to like the French? :)
Maybe we should all stay in the EU and just kick the French out.
Its because they smell, and you know why?
So blind people can hate them too............
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Why does no one from any other country seem to like the French? :)
Maybe we should all stay in the EU and just kick the French out.
Its because they smell, and you know why?
So blind people can hate them too............
:rollin :rollin
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I know the comments about the french are tongue in cheek, but bear this in mind. If it had not been for the French and the rear guard action they fought at Dunkirk we Brits would all be speaking German by now. Kick the Belgium's out now they are twats.
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I know the comments about the french are tongue in cheek, but bear this in mind. If it had not been for the French and the rear guard action they fought at Dunkirk we Brits would all be speaking German by now. Kick the Belgium's out now they are twats.
Don't give them credit for changing the outcome of the war
Even if we lost all the troupes in Dunkirk it wouldn't have changed much. The English channel and the RAF brought us time to work out how to defeat nazi Germany
If you want to praise any French from WW2 give it to the resistance, now they were brave
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Riots in Yugoslavia had provoked Hitler to attack us, postponing the attack on Russia long enough to be caught by Russian winter. Also, during the course of war, the resistance movement with sabotages and open warfare made Axis forces hold from 100.000 to 200.000 troops on Yugoslav territory alone, relieving other allied fronts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_White (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_White)
:)
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Don't think you can take any credit Slaninar, Wasn't it you c@nts that kicked it all off in the first place :lol http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjhxtC06NLNAhUFLMAKHaAXDGMQFggyMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theweek.co.uk%2Fworld-news%2Ffirst-world-war%2F59782%2Fhow-did-the-first-world-war-start&usg=AFQjCNGf8j8Kk_yRur6qK8tAthRio36e7g&sig2=bvSDwnigJC82d5uW5fCM4w&bvm=bv.126130881,d.ZGg (http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjhxtC06NLNAhUFLMAKHaAXDGMQFggyMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theweek.co.uk%2Fworld-news%2Ffirst-world-war%2F59782%2Fhow-did-the-first-world-war-start&usg=AFQjCNGf8j8Kk_yRur6qK8tAthRio36e7g&sig2=bvSDwnigJC82d5uW5fCM4w&bvm=bv.126130881,d.ZGg)
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Don't think you can take any credit Slaninar, Wasn't it you c@nts that kicked it all off in the first place :lol [url]http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjhxtC06NLNAhUFLMAKHaAXDGMQFggyMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theweek.co.uk%2Fworld-news%2Ffirst-world-war%2F59782%2Fhow-did-the-first-world-war-start&usg=AFQjCNGf8j8Kk_yRur6qK8tAthRio36e7g&sig2=bvSDwnigJC82d5uW5fCM4w&bvm=bv.126130881,d.ZGg[/url] ([url]http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjhxtC06NLNAhUFLMAKHaAXDGMQFggyMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theweek.co.uk%2Fworld-news%2Ffirst-world-war%2F59782%2Fhow-did-the-first-world-war-start&usg=AFQjCNGf8j8Kk_yRur6qK8tAthRio36e7g&sig2=bvSDwnigJC82d5uW5fCM4w&bvm=bv.126130881,d.ZGg[/url])
That was in WW1. :)
And the Turks a few years back...
(http://andrej.fajgelj.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Serbs.png)
The culmination was 1999, against the whole damn world. :)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ljpvKBx3RrI/hqdefault.jpg)
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To relieve some of the seriousness on this thread I will tell you a brexit true story.
Sat at work at lunch time on the Friday after the vote one guy asked if when we are officially out of the eu will he still be able to buy french sticks :eek . We reassured him that he would still be able to get them but they would cost a lot more as they would have to be imported specially, and that he should avoid buying any french letters in the future as they would have all been sabotaged. Took him two hours to realise we were taking the piss.
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so guys, who do think will be the next conservative PM?
my opinion would be Michael Gove :eek
[/size][/color]
[/size]I liked[/color]
[/size]The Vote Leave campaign, masterminded by Gove, had pledged an extra £350m a week for the NHS. Gove also said he would end free movement, introduce an Australian-style points-based system for immigration and bring numbers down[/color] :lol
[/size][/color]
[/size] dont like[/color]
[/size]waiting till 2017 till we start the 2 year process[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]your thoughts?????[/color]
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Well we haven't even left and the chancellor has abandoned his 2020 fiscal targets, he’s thrown them in the bin.
It looks like all the experts who lined up one after the other, well were telling the truth after all.
Mark Carney has indicated he will cut interest rates, and nobody ever thought they would go under 0.5%. There ain’t much there to cut! He has stated he is prepared to print cash too. This has reassured the city to some extent and shares have rallied a little.
In the longer term, with the pound down at a record low we can expect the return of inflation and inevitably interests rates will rise.
A recession seems almost inevitable. But what will be different about this recession, from all others, is that we have voted for it. The people have voted for hardship.
Meanwhile Boris has legged it. As for the 350,000,000 for the NHS, well yup it’s a lie, a fabrication, and that 350,000,000 is nothing compared to the money we are about to lose as our economy now shrinks as predicted. The NHS will be hammered, not that people like Nigel Farage care cos he fucking hates the NHS. And this is all before we have even triggered article 50 in order to negotiate our exit.
We have Gove as the token BREXIT contender for the Tory leadership. But I’ll be surprised if we don’t get a REMAIN PM, probably Teresa May.
It’s gonna be a case of talks with Europe, debate in the commons etc, maybe a general election in the autumn (Tory landslide), a bit more time, and by the spring once we have all felt a bit of pain, the new Prime Minister will put the question to the people again.
It will be a solid REMAIN Vote.
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Flakey, you're forgetting one thing, all and any politician will say anything to get elected and get their hands on that nice expenses allowance.
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Gove couldn't run a menage! We need a general election asap!
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I know the comments about the french are tongue in cheek, but bear this in mind. If it had not been for the French and the rear guard action they fought at Dunkirk we Brits would all be speaking German by now. Kick the Belgium's out now they are twats.
Don't give them credit for changing the outcome of the war
Even if we lost all the troupes in Dunkirk it wouldn't have changed much. The English channel and the RAF brought us time to work out how to defeat nazi Germany
If you want to praise any French from WW2 give it to the resistance, now they were brave
You really do need to read your history mate, the English Channel and the RAF bought us time to work out how to defeat Nazi Germany. Well you may have a point all we needed to do during that time was to convince the Americans to declare war on Germany, I think they may just have helped us out a wee bit. I would never decry what the RAF did during the Battle of Britain. I think the Polish lads did their bit as well.
Nice to see how the Polish people who now live and work in the UK today are being treated by some of the scum who no doubt voted for the leave campaign in the Referendum.
The 147 Polish pilots claimed 201 aircraft shot down. 303 Squadron claimed the highest number of kills (126) of all Allied squadrons engaged in the Battle of Britain.[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-British_personnel_in_the_RAF_during_the_Battle_of_Britain#cite_note-33)Witold Urbanowicz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Urbanowicz) of 303 Squadron was the top Polish scorer with 15 claims. Sgt Tony Głowacki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoni_G%C5%82owacki) was one of two Allied pilots in the Battle to shoot down five German aircraft in one day, on 24 August (the other being New Zealander Brian Carbury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Carbury)). One Polish veteran, Stanislaw Skalski (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislaw_Skalski), became the top-scoring Polish fighter ace of the Second World War.
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I know the comments about the french are tongue in cheek, but bear this in mind. If it had not been for the French and the rear guard action they fought at Dunkirk we Brits would all be speaking German by now. Kick the Belgium's out now they are twats.
Don't give them credit for changing the outcome of the war
Even if we lost all the troupes in Dunkirk it wouldn't have changed much. The English channel and the RAF brought us time to work out how to defeat nazi Germany
If you want to praise any French from WW2 give it to the resistance, now they were brave
You really do need to read your history mate, the English Channel and the RAF bought us time to work out how to defeat Nazi Germany. Well you may have a point all we needed to do during that time was to convince the Americans to declare war on Germany, I think they may just have helped us out a wee bit. I would never decry what the RAF did during the Battle of Britain. I think the Polish lads did their bit as well.
Nice to see how the Polish people who now live and work in the UK today are being treated by some of the scum who no doubt voted for the leave campaign in the Referendum.
The 147 Polish pilots claimed 201 aircraft shot down. 303 Squadron claimed the highest number of kills (126) of all Allied squadrons engaged in the Battle of Britain.[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-British_personnel_in_the_RAF_during_the_Battle_of_Britain#cite_note-33)Witold Urbanowicz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Urbanowicz) of 303 Squadron was the top Polish scorer with 15 claims. Sgt Tony Głowacki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoni_G%C5%82owacki) was one of two Allied pilots in the Battle to shoot down five German aircraft in one day, on 24 August (the other being New Zealander Brian Carbury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Carbury)). One Polish veteran, Stanislaw Skalski (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislaw_Skalski), became the top-scoring Polish fighter ace of the Second World War.
All I said was that the saving of our forces at Dunkirk would not have made much, if any difference to the outcome of the war. As for who ultimately lead to the defeat of Nazi Germany, I think we had Russia to thank for that. Forget all your pilots who shot down a few axis aircraft, fighting in Russia destroyed the cream of the German armies. By the time we (inc the USA) landed on D Day there were mainly conscripts, old men and boys opposing our forces.
Very few people seem to credit Russia for the part it played in the second world war, but with losses of an estimated twenty eight million I think they deserve some recognition.
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saying this as a proud welsh man, at the end of the day we are all BRITISH, when push comes to shove I would stand side by side with my countrymen, shoulder to shoulder. 5uck the rest.
Sorry, not having that whatsoever!!!
That's like saying we're all from the world!
I was born in London, so i'm not Welsh, Northern Irish or Scottish, you can only be born in one place, it's just a simple fact.
Also, have a read of a daily newspaper, according to them every fecker is British, it seems to be the trend these days.
Add to that, how many foreign "British" people would step forward to serve for Britain if it was deemed necessary in a war situation?
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all this shit about leavers causing mayhem to none british..I wouldn't be surprise if the remainers are involve in all of this.
its seems to me that those who voted to remain wanted to be controlled by foreigners,because that is what the EU is all about....
I voted to leave and will do so again if ask.
I voted for several reason's the main one is to take control back from unelected governing bodies of the EU...
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I know the comments about the french are tongue in cheek, but bear this in mind. If it had not been for the French and the rear guard action they fought at Dunkirk we Brits would all be speaking German by now. Kick the Belgium's out now they are twats.
Don't give them credit for changing the outcome of the war
Even if we lost all the troupes in Dunkirk it wouldn't have changed much. The English channel and the RAF brought us time to work out how to defeat nazi Germany
If you want to praise any French from WW2 give it to the resistance, now they were brave
You really do need to read your history mate, the English Channel and the RAF bought us time to work out how to defeat Nazi Germany. Well you may have a point all we needed to do during that time was to convince the Americans to declare war on Germany, I think they may just have helped us out a wee bit. I would never decry what the RAF did during the Battle of Britain. I think the Polish lads did their bit as well.
Nice to see how the Polish people who now live and work in the UK today are being treated by some of the scum who no doubt voted for the leave campaign in the Referendum.
The 147 Polish pilots claimed 201 aircraft shot down. 303 Squadron claimed the highest number of kills (126) of all Allied squadrons engaged in the Battle of Britain.[29] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-British_personnel_in_the_RAF_during_the_Battle_of_Britain#cite_note-33)Witold Urbanowicz (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witold_Urbanowicz) of 303 Squadron was the top Polish scorer with 15 claims. Sgt Tony Głowacki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoni_G%C5%82owacki) was one of two Allied pilots in the Battle to shoot down five German aircraft in one day, on 24 August (the other being New Zealander Brian Carbury (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Carbury)). One Polish veteran, Stanislaw Skalski (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislaw_Skalski), became the top-scoring Polish fighter ace of the Second World War.
All I said was that the saving of our forces at Dunkirk would not have made much, if any difference to the outcome of the war. As for who ultimately lead to the defeat of Nazi Germany, I think we had Russia to thank for that. Forget all your pilots who shot down a few axis aircraft, fighting in Russia destroyed the cream of the German armies. By the time we (inc the USA) landed on D Day there were mainly conscripts, old men and boys opposing our forces.
Very few people seem to credit Russia for the part it played in the second world war, but with losses of an estimated twenty eight million I think they deserve some recognition.
As I said just read a bit of history, Russia and Germany divided Poland between them. Russia and Germany had signed a non agression pact in 1939 and it remained in force until 22 June 1941, when the Germans attacked Russia.That non agression pact let Russia invade , Finland , Latvia, Estonia, Belarus and Rumainia etc!! The Russians when they did finally decide to throw their hand in with the Allies were only able to hang on in there because of the help they got from the USA and the UK due to the Atlantic convoys. Yes they suffered heavy causulties, but Stalin was still playing a double game, he continued to carry out Ethnic cleansing of his own people.
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So it all seems to of died down now then, stock markets are back up and beyond the leavel of before the brexit.
How come it get reported x amount of billions WIPED OFF stock market and yet nothing about billions added now it has rebounded.
Nigel has quit (again) after saying "job done" I look forward to seeing him in the jungle/big brother/strictly/ on one knee in front of the queen getting a knighthood.
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Just found this, it's time to think and contemplate :)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2qcf4ax.jpg)
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Just found this, it's time to think and contemplate :)
([url]http://i64.tinypic.com/2qcf4ax.jpg[/url])
What's the point? Who are you trying to persuade of what exactly, and why?
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+1
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he maybe making a point on where the immigrants are heading or are here.
it seems we've got the most.
I have a feeling that we may never leave the EU.
if comes down to MP's voting.
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he maybe making a point on where the immigrants are heading or are here.
it seems we've got the most.
Maybe? I was more thinking what's his point? He seems to be attacking the leave camp with all these smart-arsed gifs and cryptic comments, but giving no explanations for his point of view, just pure vitriol as far as I can see. It's like he thinks the whole Brexit thing was purely aimed at upsetting him alone. Why not just come out and state his meaning? How does any of what he's been posting offer anything constructive to the debate? "It's time to think and contemplate" :rolleyes When you've quite finished looking down your nose at everyone Val...Tiresome.
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Irrespective of whether the figures in that image are correct or not…..
All the BREXIT supporters seem to agree that the UK must have access to the EU single market. They know as we know that that means free movement and it’s non-negotiable. Further you have to pay to access the EU single market. We don’t know what that price is, but what we do now know is that we need access and that we will not get a discounted rate as we currently do under full membership.
Meanwhile the pound is today at a 31year low against the dollar, it has also weakened against the Euro.
That means price rises in the shops for everyday essentials, which in turns means inflation. So while Mark carney says he’s considering cutting interest rates, well if he does it’s unlikely to be for long as he will need to raise them in the long term to combat inflation.
This all means less money in your pocket, not to mention mortgage costs will rise steeply, so even less money in your pocket, means less spending power, means further downward pressure on our economy.
It’s hard to see a way out of this. But at the end of the day any negotiated settlement on leaving the EU will have to be voted on by parliament. And how can our elected members vote for continued access to the single market at a similar cost to full membership with no change on free movement, not to mentioned a down rated credit rating (increased borrowing costs), a weak pound and a nervous economy.
I suggest at some point there will have to be a second referendum. Once we know what the full cost of ‘leaving’ is then people can make an informed decision.
Meanwhile Boris and Nigel are off.
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I don't know what your all whinging about, with a population of 64 million in the UK and 4.9 million emmigrants, that's about 0.4% of which less than 0.1% are Irish people.
FFS we have a population of 4.6million and 0.9 million emmigrants which close to 20% of our population, English people make up 5% of them.
:wall
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I don't know what your all whinging about, with a population of 64 million in the UK and 4.9 million emmigrants, that's about 0.4% of which less than 0.1% are Irish people.
FFS we have a population of 4.6million and 0.9 million emmigrants which close to 20% of our population, English people make up 5% of them.
:wall
Not everyone is whingeing about just immigration ;)
At a time when much of the UK has been talking about devolution of Westminster's powers to the regions, the EU is going in the opposite direction, and in a most undemocratic way. Not that the Tories seem to really mean it either - Northern Powerhouse? Yeah, right :rolleyes Why don't the EU, as a body, just come right out and say it: "We want a single European state, run from Brussels (or wherever), with no individual countries exercising their own destiny" ?
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The figures in Val's chart represent the 4.9 million Brits living abroad in Europe. Hmm, people (on both camps) need to get over this and move on. The truth is we are coming out of the EU and no one knows the long term consequences be they good or bad. We will still buy and sell with Europe, we make stuff they want and vice versa, the details will need to be ironed out, that's all. Immigrants will still want to come to the UK as we are a relatively wealthy developed country, being in or out makes no difference. We still need immigrants/seasonal workers to pick fruit and plug any skills gaps required by the free economy. The UK economy will eventually sort itself out. It's a global issue, in the grand scheme of things the EU is a medium sized fish at best. I don't think we should ever do any more referendums, If we voted to bring back hanging tomorrow we'd be stringing people up outside town halls and municipal buildings by the weekend! Don't believe the scaremongering, In the words of Lance corporal Jack Jones "don't panic, don't panic!" . . . Just my two pence worth.
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The figures in Val's chart represent the 4.9 million Brits living abroad in Europe.Hmm. People (on both camps) need to get over this and move on. The truth is we are coming out of the EU and no one knows the long term consequences be they good or bad. We will still buy and sell with Europe, we make stuff they want and vice versa, the details will need to be ironed out, that's all. Immigrants will still want to come to the UK as we are a relatively wealthy developed country, being in or out makes no difference. We still need immigrants/seasonal workers to pick fruit and plug any skills gaps required by the free economy. The UK economy will eventually sort itself out. It's a global issue, in the grand scheme of things the EU is a medium sized fish at best. I don't think we should ever do any more referendums, If we voted to bring back hanging tomorrow we'd be stringing people up outside town halls and municipal buildings by the weekend! Don't believe the scaremongering, In the words of Lance corporal Jack Jones "don't panic, don't panic!" . . . Just my two pence worth.
Hear, hear!
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Maybe? I was more thinking what's his point? He seems to be attacking the leave camp with all these smart-arsed gifs and cryptic comments, but giving no explanations for his point of view, just pure vitriol as far as I can see. It's like he thinks the whole Brexit thing was purely aimed at upsetting him alone. Why not just come out and state his meaning? How does any of what he's been posting offer anything constructive to the debate? "It's time to think and contemplate" :rolleyes When you've quite finished looking down your nose at everyone Val...Tiresome.
Sorry if I have upset somebody with posting few FUN facts :)
Short of writing a book about it my point of view is Brexit is the biggest foccup of all times.
Sorry that I can't help here, but honestly after the monumental foccup I really do not see how I can help. Been constructive will not undo it.
Its like lets crash in this wall and than complaining that I am not helping, I would if I could but I can't :'(
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Sorry that I can't help here, but honestly after the monumental foccup I really do not see how I can help. Been constructive will not undo it.
Its like lets crash in this wall and than complaining that I am not helping, I would if I could but I can't :'(
The shut the foc up about it. Neither you nor I can do anything about it, we are where we are, time to just make the best of things. The more people who just sit on their arses whingeing about it instead of trying to make it work (assuming it does even happen, but I'm not going into that particular nest of vipers here), the worse it will be.
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buy british surely that will help. ;)
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The figures in Val's chart represent the 4.9 million Brits living abroad in Europe. Hmm, people (on both camps) need to get over this and move on. The truth is we are coming out of the EU and no one knows the long term consequences be they good or bad. We will still buy and sell with Europe, we make stuff they want and vice versa, the details will need to be ironed out, that's all. Immigrants will still want to come to the UK as we are a relatively wealthy developed country, being in or out makes no difference. We still need immigrants/seasonal workers to pick fruit and plug any skills gaps required by the free economy. The UK economy will eventually sort itself out. It's a global issue, in the grand scheme of things the EU is a medium sized fish at best. I don't think we should ever do any more referendums, If we voted to bring back hanging tomorrow we'd be stringing people up outside town halls and municipal buildings by the weekend! Don't believe the scaremongering, In the words of Lance corporal Jack Jones "don't panic, don't panic!" . . . Just my two pence worth.
I don't read that, I read British living ABROAD - not just in Europe.
What about the USA, Australia, Canada, China, India etc, etc, etc.
The pounds value has gone down because speculators need some form of "turmoil" to stimulate trade in currencies - without it (and with stability), they go bust.
Any news or change will be used by these parasites as an excuse to cause currency fluctuations (and economic instability), which are what they need to make money. Despite a vote for something that may, or may not, happen, the roller coaster has been started, wonder why ?
Lie to create a crisis, they make money. Lie to end a crisis, they make money - Never let the facts affect that.
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I don't read that, I read British living ABROAD - not just in Europe.
What about the USA, Australia, Canada, China, India etc, etc, etc.
Lie to create a crisis, they make money. Lie to end a crisis, they make money - Never let the facts affect that.
You're right Millietant! :thumbup nothing but Vultures the lot of them.
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This topic started with a long list of British manufacturers/companies that, since Margaret Thatchers government arrived in 1979, have shipped production/jobs abroad to the point where,apart from foreign owned car manufacturers here in the UK & Rolls Royce aero engines in Derby, I cant think of any other British owned manufacturing companies based mainly here. So when posts on here suggest European single market will still want what we manufacture can anyone tell me what these British products are?
I may be naive but, as someone who grew up here at a time when we were a major exporting economy,(we had to be after WW2 to repay our debts to USA-& the motto then was "Export or Die"), it seems that we are predominantly a "service" economy now with our income coming from banking & foreign investment (invisible earnings) & assembling products manufactured overseas.
About the only thing I am sure about these days is that I distrust almost everything the politicians say.
So how can we as an electorate be expected to make "informed" decisions affecting our childrens future when governed by such an assortment of self-serving & untruthful characters (many with hidden agendas) many of whom have little or no "connection" with the people they are elected to represent?
Surely our present system isnt working and we need to make some big changes starting with the "quality" of our elected MPs.
I cant remember a time when we have had to witness such a shambles ranging from incompetence to nasty tactics.Makes us seem a laughing stock to the rest of the world.
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Unfazed - If the population is 64M and we have 4.9M immigrants, that is 7.6% of the population. Slightly more than your 0.4 calculation.
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The £ has gone down because all the post Brexit news is bad news. Looks like 'Project Fear' has turned into 'Project We Told You So'.
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Food prices have have just had the biggest fall for a year, and are now the lowest that they have been for many years - not widely reported but you can bet that the stayers will start pointing when they go up, a bit like global warming brigade that only start shouting when in the british summer we (shock horror ) get a heat wave
Dosh-bourn told us that interest rate would go up after a brexit - now Carney has said they are likely to go DOWN.
The pound falling has got nothing to do with brexit - or rather that brexit is being used as a cover for others to manipulate the rate for their own benifit, we are reminded that the LIBOR cheats have all just been found guilty.
The whole EU project needs scrapping and starting afresh back to how it started as a trading agreement only.
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If you check you will see the food price reduction was for June, pre Brexit. Of course the £ is going down because of Brexit. Traders are selling Sterling and buying other currencies because of the uncertainty. All imports will become dearer. Expect petrol pump prices to go up and up.
Interest rates are being forced down to promote business lending in a desperate bid to keep the economy going.
All the issues predicted are coming true because there was NO PLAN.
After hearing years of anti EU bollox, and more recently lies, it's about time the other side was heard
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I
All the issues predicted are coming true because there was NO PLAN.
After hearing years of anti EU bollox, and more recently lies, it's about time the other side was heard
Fine, go ahead. What was the plan for remaining in? Allow things to carry on as they were? Even the remaining EU nations are now strongly questioning that. Pity it had to wait until someone made a drastic statement by voting to leave :rolleyes
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I see Farage has voted leave/resign, but will still collect his Salary from the European parliament he will also if he so desires get an EU passport via his German wife.
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At least with Remain there was a plan. And you can't steer the EU in the right direction if you're not in it. Farage, Boris etc. Having cocked everything up they run away from the scene of the crime
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At least with Remain there was a plan. And you can't steer the EU in the right direction if you're not in it.
We were in it - we were trying to steer it and got nowhere, we warned them - they did not listen, they were so arrogant they thought that we would not vote out.
I think we did hear the doomers and we did believe them and yet still chose to leave because we believe the short term cost will be worth the long term gains in getting back control of own country.
We need to stop bringing down the country and get on with moving forward together and show the EU that we are united and resolute in our decision, that is the only way that we will get the best deals. I for one was quite willing to do that in the event of a stay vote even a 00000.1% in favour.
The close result is a good thing in that the in coming government will have to span both camps and in doing so hopefully we will end up with best of both worlds.
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As for the Remain plan, well we already had the opt outs agreed on Schengen and the Euro, plus the Touquet agreement with the French, so we were changing things to suit us. I don't share your optimism. How bad is it allowed to get before things get better?
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How bad is it allowed to get before things get better?
Exactly what the leave camp (and remember, that was over 50% of voters) were thinking while we were in. One thing is certain - a continued doom and gloom attitude from the remainers will help nothing. But then I guess you need to make sure things fail now to prove you were right; maybe then you'll be happy :rolleyes
For me, I would have preferred to remain in, but not as things were going. Cameron had his last ditch effort to get us a good deal and failed. But even had he got more, the direction of the EU is wrong imo. All the whingeing from the remainers will not convince me otherwise, whether it was right or wrong to vote out.
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If you check you will see the food price reduction was for June, pre Brexit. Of course the £ is going down because of Brexit. Traders are selling Sterling and buying other currencies because of the uncertainty. All imports will become dearer. Expect petrol pump prices to go up and up.
Interest rates are being forced down to promote business lending in a desperate bid to keep the economy going.
All the issues predicted are coming true because there was NO PLAN.
After hearing years of anti EU bollox, and more recently lies, it's about time the other side was heard
As far as I know we are still in the EU and will be for at least another two years so why are things changjng so quickly?
Answer : because as others have pointed out the money traders are all doing what they have done before, making a quick profit and screw everyone else no matter what the consequences, they caused the recession a few years back and will always continue to foc it up until one goverment somewhere becomes honest and sticks all ,not just a token few, money changers where they belong, in jail for fraud.
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All the issues predicted are coming true because there was NO PLAN.
There was no plan because the leaders of the BREXIT campaign didn’t believe they were going to win. They thought they could lead the losing side to their political advantage. Take Boris, he was quite recently pro EU, then went quiet when a referendum was on the table, before coming out as a BREXITER with just a few months to go to the vote and jumping in as leader of the BREXIT campaign.
Not only that but his first BREXIT standpoint was that we need to vote out in order to get back in with a better deal! So he still didn’t want to leave the EU, but with that position not looking credible be then moved on to apparently become a full on anti EU BREXITER.
As for him being PM, well Gove may have knifed him in the back but let’s face it he could have still stood and would have had a good few backers. But he’s run away cos he knows he’s absolutely utterly focced it all up.
Those who voted for BREXIT have been sold a pup.
Food prices have have just had the biggest fall for a year, and are now the lowest that they have been for many years - not widely reported but you can bet that the stayers will start pointing when they go up, a bit like global warming brigade that only start shouting when in the british summer we (shock horror ) get a heat wave
Dosh-bourn told us that interest rate would go up after a brexit - now Carney has said they are likely to go DOWN.
Fazersharp, see my post 229.
Stuff like food prices are measured year on year. So on 12mnths ago food prices are down, but if the pound remains weak and as we import much of our food that will mean rising food prices.
Again a weak pound will lead to inflation. That means Mark Carney can only cut interest rates for so long. Also we no longer have a AAA credit rating, that also means we have to pay more for the massive amount of debit that we owe. I guess Mark Carney’s hope is to steady the economy, boost confidence, stimulate investment and hopefully strengthen the pound from where it is just now. But no longer is he in control, he’s reacting to events and most experts are predicting inflation and interest rises in the long term. That means pain for a lot of people. Let’s just hope Mark Carney is some sort of banking magician and we avoid such turmoil.
Meanwhile in terms of what we do to leave the EU or rather to what extent we leave the EU and how it is achieved – well nobody has a clue.
As mtread seems to be saying, it’s a case of make it up as they go along. What a way to run a country. And folks wonder why the markets are spooked?
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All the issues predicted are coming true because there was NO PLAN.
There was no plan because the leaders of the BREXIT campaign didn’t believe they were going to win.
Ha! They weren't the only ones that thought that.
Boris? Farage? Meh. Good riddance to the pair of them.
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We're out of the EU. OK so the country's divided, we'd still be divided even if the vote went the other way. Get over it move on or move out.
The US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are particularly fond of whinging Brits, but they've all got robust Immigration policies in place so good luck there. Irish Granny? Why not give Ireland a try? Good luck pal they're employment rate is at 10%, almost twice that of the UK.
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A couple of the recent posts really hit the nail on the head for me.
If a proportion of our citizens (but not the majority) keeps peddling the expectation of failure, wtf can we expect the rest of the world to think.
To all the Remainers - you lost in our standard democratic process (the same one used for all referenda) - in order that we keep democracy alive, play by the rules you signed up for when you voted, accept the result and now do your effing best to promote Britain and try to help the nation succeed, instead of bitching, moaning, and running your nation down.
Be patriotic - support your "Nation" - or go somewhere where democracy doesn't work and the country is run by a minority with strong views (usually a dictatorship), loud voices........ and big boots.
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Nope not accepting the result at all. We're not out of the EU, we're still in. Lots of water to flow under the bridge yet and Parliament needs to decide. And it's not 'whinging'. That's what the leavers have been doing for the last umpteen years. Nobody is talking the country down, quite the contrary, it's the result that's talking bringing it down. As was predicted by Remain.
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Nope not accepting the result at all. We're not out of the EU, we're still in. Lots of water to flow under the bridge yet and Parliament needs to decide. And it's not 'whinging'. That's what the leavers have been doing for the last umpteen years. Nobody is talking the country down, quite the contrary, it's the result that's talking bringing it down. As was predicted by Remain.
Of course it's whingeing. It's politics. That's what everyone does when the subject is politics :grumble
Cheer up. Here's a little song I wrote
Gonna sing it note for note
Don't w......
Alright. I'll get me coat :lol
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To all the Remainers - you lost in our standard democratic process
Millietant, I think what is clear is that - hopefully - that democratic process is still ongoing.
Not to mention our democratic process is open to all, not just those that won a referendum that really should have never been held in the first place. ;)
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i was going to make a comment but what is this point this will never end. good luck the winners of the vote at least you got out of bed and voted. ;) . there are a lot of pep,s, who i know who never voted and are moaning about the result . :eek good luck GB,
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I think what is clear, is that many who have never bothered to vote before, got down to the polling station, were shown what to do, and voted Leave. Whilst the country is generally on a downward trend, one thing that has shown an increase since the Brexit vote - hate crime....
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I think what is clear, is that many who have never bothered to vote before, got down to the polling station, were shown what to do, and voted Leave. Whilst the country is generally on a downward trend, one thing that has shown an increase since the Brexit vote - hate crime....
How do you know they voted leave? Where is your evidence?