The future is electric………….

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

I think they would have much more success pushing hybrids first.

Personally, I would legislate hybrids off the road and get serious about charging infrastructure – that is if the industry is sure it can sustain battery manufacture.  (there are still questions marks over the long term future production of batteries at this time)



Buy hybrid – in my humble opinion – is daft.  You got two or more engines.  You got two fuels cells.  In other words, you end of wasting a shit load of energy in manufacturing creating the darm thing – and everywhere you go you are lugging your seriously overweight car.  Add in to that often poor passenger space and poor boot space.


It’s a bit like re-using your plastic bags.  Which is good.  And there is arguably good aspects to hybrid.  But really, hybrid cars, like reusable plastic bags – allow us, and in this case the car industry too, to think we are “saving the planet” (how I hate that fuckin term) or “doing our bit” when frankly we are doing nothing of the sort.


Hybrids should have been banned before they even got off the car lot. (VNA's personal opinion)

I for one will be looking at a hybrid for my next car. More than likely the Hyundai Tuscon 48V.

Make sure it has a foc off bomb proof long term warranty.  And it trade in with a decent bit warranty left.  Could be wrong Dude – but I know I wouldn’t buy a used hybrid without a comprehensive manufacturer backed warranty.  Used values of these motors could plummet at some point - soon.  Another reason why I feel it is one or the other.
 

[bludclot]

Electric motor for pootling around town (emission free)

Don't want to keep banging on but.... not emission free.

[mtread]

Don't want to keep banging on but.... not emission free.

Please explain why not.

[F4celess]

I researched a number of hybrid cars not so long ago, as my next car, however the returned MPG figures were WORSE than an equivalent Diesel !

Also what was supposed to be a "sporty" model (in my shortlist) didn't return any performance figures to boast about - quite poor actually.
But the Dashboard did look like something out of the Millennium Falcon. 
Therefore went for a small engined Diesel instead.

[BBROWN1664]

Don't want to keep banging on but.... not emission free.

Please explain why not.

The electricity is generated somewhere that creates emissions (burning fuel, build and decommission of the power station/wind turbine etc)
The build and transportation of the car/bike
Disposal of the car/bike

All of the above create emissions its just the greeny people like their car to not produce gas as it moves around the town centre and countryside.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

The electricity is generated somewhere that creates emissions (burning fuel, build and decommission of the power station/wind turbine etc)
The build and transportation of the car/bike
Disposal of the car/bike
 
All of the above create emissions its just the greeny people like their car to not produce gas as it moves around the town centre and countryside.

It’s about decarbonisation.  It’s about zero, or near zero carbon emissions. The electricity industry is making some progress in becoming carbon neutral.  A near 100% carbon free electricity industry is possible.  Electric cars do not burn fossil fuel, therefore they do not emit CO2.

Don't want to keep banging on but.... not emission free.

So yes electric cars are essentially emission free.


And we don’t have a choice.  We need to de-carbonise our economy as fast as we possibly can.  My fear is we are doing it at a fraction of the speed we need to do it.  Progress is hopelessly slow.
 

[mtread]

The electricity is generated somewhere that creates emissions (burning fuel, build and decommission of the power station/wind turbine etc)The build and transportation of the car/bikeDisposal of the car/bikeAll of the above create emissions its just the greeny people like their car to not produce gas as it moves around the town centre and countryside.

How do wind turbine/solar/hydro cause emissions? Apart from building them in the first place and infrastructure? It's like saying walking causes emissions because of the need to make shoes.
As to build and disposal of the vehicle, well that's more or less the same whatever you drive or ride.
It's all about comparative emissions, and clearly the internal combustion engine creates much more.


For me, if they only make electric bikes in future, I'll hang on to my current ones as long as possible, but in the end I'll ride an electric bike.

[Oldgit]

Aye Mtread it will be a Mobility Scooter for you by the time the country does away with combustion engines.

[mtread]

Aye Mtread it will be a Mobility Scooter for you by the time the country does away with combustion engines.

 


Here's hoping

[YamFazFan]

Anyone know what the heaters are like in fully electric cars?. You've not got any hot water have you?.


Also how does it affect the range when the air-con is going full blast on the hottest day of the year?.

[fazersharp]

Its great giving range per min charge but what they didn't say in that MCN piece was that range is massively dependant of speed and acceleration so its all well and good trashing the petrol bike on a 1/4 mile drag strip but that's perhaps about as far as it will go when ragged.   

What puts me off is the cost of cars for now. For my car I don't care about performance - thats what the  is for. I wouldn't even mind an electric bike, after all mine spends 95% of its life attached to a battery optimiser anyway and the max I have ridden in one sitting was 200 miles.But have to admit i would miss the heat/noise/smell and shear violence of a petrol bike

[fazersharp]

Anyone know what the heaters are like in fully electric cars?. You've not got any hot water have you?.

Here

[BBROWN1664]

Electric bikes and cars will be here for everyone eventually. I like my FZS and will keep that as long as I can. If/when I need to go electric, it will probably be a good thing as the simplicity should make them more reliable than the current bikes we have and the range wouldn't be too much of an issue for me as long as we can get 120-150 miles of normal riding on a single charge.

As far as cars go, I am tempted by a Tesla (the bank manager says I would need to sell my house first though) as that is the only car I have seen that has the comfort, the range and the performance I would like as a replacement for my Audi A6. Even the Tesla though has its limitations. They do have the charging points but I do take a regular long journey......At the moment I leave my house and drive 80 miles to Euro Tunnel. If times right, I get there, and get straight into the queue to board the train so would not be able to make use of the chargers that they have at the terminal. Once off the train, its a quick 2 hour run down to Rouen (about 150 miles) where we stop for a 10 minute leg stretch and a coffee. Back in the car its another 150 miles to my place there where I can plug the car in to charge it up. Total distance is about 400 miles which is just too far for the Tesla so I would need to stop for 40 minutes in Rouen to top up the batteries making my journey even longer. At the moment, there are always plenty of free charging points but if I have to queue for 40 minutes before I can get on the charger then we are looking at 1.5 hours more for my journey.

Now, why would I want an all electric car?

[BBROWN1664]

Anyone know what the heaters are like in fully electric cars?. You've not got any hot water have you?.

Even my 7 year old Audi (and a Saab I had 20 year ago) had electric heating for cold days so you can demist the windscreen immediately and get nice warm air within 1 min of getting in the car

[F4celess]

I know our first thoughts are COOL - how far can it go (per charge) plus want to see performance figures - but how about SAFETY.

This will be (near) silent to other motorists - even currently, with the aid of a noisy exhaust, motorcyclists are still mostly 'invisible' to other road users.
The NOISE of a motorcycle in the blindspot of a car is your only hope the driver isn't about to pull out into you! 

So without any noise factor to alert the senses to our presence, what is being done to make these silent motorcycles more noticeable on the roads!?


Perhaps a little extra lighting is in order to ensure you still get noticed. Rocking it...

[YamFazFan]

Yeah, but you've got a conventional engine charging the battery back up as hard as it can go haven't you. It's total loss on an all electric surely?.


To have a heater that keeps you all warm & toasty on a day like this must whip through the battery power doesn't it?

[YamFazFan]

Anyone know what the heaters are like in fully electric cars?. You've not got any hot water have you?.

Here

 

[fazersharp]

Anyone know what the heaters are like in fully electric cars?. You've not got any hot water have you?.

Even my 7 year old Audi (and a Saab I had 20 year ago) had electric heating for cold days so you can demist the windscreen immediately and get nice warm air within 1 min of getting in the car

Reminds me of an old friends -old scoda it was shit but had a fantastic heater, the best bit was the fag lighter when it was ready and popped out it used to fire it out on to the back seat     

[bludclot]

Don't want to keep banging on but.... not emission free.

So yes electric cars are essentially emission free.

No they are not.


Electric motors emit heat and noise while in use, batteries emit heat - hence not emission free. It's not wise to discount heat emissions - global warming is upon us and millions of running engines or electric motors do not help. I don't know which runs cooler, I suspect an electric setup runs significantly cooler than an equivalent powered fossil fuel engine so perhaps there's a step in the right direction there.


That's just the power unit however. The rest of the vehicle emits brake dust particles, tyre rubber particles, light emissions (not to be discounted lightly either) while in use. There's also consumables to consider - bearings, fluids, shocks etc. that are replaced during the working life of a vehicle.


As stated above the electricity powering the vehicle does not materialise by magic, it comes at a cost. The same is true for vehicle manufacture and decommission, it is considered that these two parts of vehicle life contribute up to 90% (!) of total pollutants during the life of a vehicle. (This is difficult to measure apparently.) (The amount of virgin natural resources consumed to make one vehicle is depressing.)


To say that a vehicle is emissions free is just plain wrong. Electric vehicles are tail pipe emissions free, that's more accurate.

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

Anyone know what the heaters are like in fully electric cars?. You've not got any hot water have you?.

Yeah, well think why you can heat yer internal combustion driven car so easily.  It is because it is so dreadfully inefficient.  You need a whole cooling system to get shot of all the heat it generates.  That heat is energy – it’s waste.  Up to 70% of the energy generated in an internal combustion engine is heat – which ideally is not what we want an engine to do.


At the end of the day the internal combustion engine is incredibly inefficient.  It depends on the type of vehicle , engine, drive chain etc but a typical car is less than 20% efficient. 



As much as we all love the internal combustion engine – we all need to step back and realise in reality how appallingly crap it is.
 

[fazersharp]

This will be (near) silent to other motorists - even currently, with the aid of a noisy exhaust, motorcyclists are still mostly 'invisible' to other road users.
The NOISE of a motorcycle in the blindspot of a car is your only hope the driver isn't about to pull out into you! 

So without any noise factor to alert the senses to our presence, what is being done to make these silent motorcycles more noticeable on the roads!?

What it needs is that via blue tooth when you approach a car a bike noise is played through the car speakers and via the use of the 4 or more speakers - the direction of the bike is also heard.
I have often thought this with emergency vehicles. How often have youbeen in a car and an hear ne but cant fire out what where its coming from - even the blue lights are s bright they get reflected off every window and street sign 

[mtread]

Read an article last week. Apparently the increased changeover from smaller cars to SUVs, with their extra weight, worse fuel consumption and additional pollution, has more than outweighed the move to nil pollution electric cars.


So we are heading in the wrong direction.


What's more, the punitive road tax applied to SUVs has little effect because it tends to be included in PCP payments, so the leaser doesn't even realise.

[Grahamm]

At the moment, there are always plenty of free charging points but if I have to queue for 40 minutes before I can get on the charger then we are looking at 1.5 hours more for my journey.

Now, why would I want an all electric car?

When petrol powered cars were new, people would often have to stop off at pharmacies to get gasoline (which was used medicinally!)

Also there was a quote from someone saying "Why should I get an automobile and risk running out of gasoline when I can get hay for my horse at any farm?"

[VNA - BMW Wank]

No they are not.


Electric motors emit heat and noise while in use, batteries emit heat - hence not emission free. It's not wise to discount heat emissions - global warming is upon us and millions of running engines or electric motors do not help. I don't know which runs cooler, I suspect an electric setup runs significantly cooler than an equivalent powered fossil fuel engine so perhaps there's a step in the right direction there.


That's just the power unit however. The rest of the vehicle emits brake dust particles, tyre rubber particles, light emissions (not to be discounted lightly either) while in use. There's also consumables to consider - bearings, fluids, shocks etc. that are replaced during the working life of a vehicle.


As stated above the electricity powering the vehicle does not materialise by magic, it comes at a cost. The same is true for vehicle manufacture and decommission, it is considered that these two parts of vehicle life contribute up to 90% (!) of total pollutants during the life of a vehicle. (This is difficult to measure apparently.) (The amount of virgin natural resources consumed to make one vehicle is depressing.)


To say that a vehicle is emissions free is just plain wrong. Electric vehicles are tail pipe emissions free, that's more accurate.

The heat generated by the engine is only relevant in terms of efficiency – and crucially the fuel generating the heat.
Basically, it’s about de-carbonisation.  We have to stop emitting CO2.
Transport can be decarbonised by,
1.        Increased electricity generation.
2.       Making sure our electricity industry becomes renewable ie carbon neutral.
3.       Switching to electric cars.
By achieving that our transport system would de decarbonised.  Free of CO2 emissions – hence emission free. 
 

[Grahamm]

To say that a vehicle is emissions free is just plain wrong. Electric vehicles are tail pipe emissions free, that's more accurate.

Which is what everyone else (who isn't being pedantic) understands by the term...