Author Topic: Exup valve....sheared bolt...rattles - the saga continues! (Read 10160 times)

FazerRuss · « **on:** 12 May 2013, 07:42:46 pm »

What a ballache of a weekend.

I'd not had any issues with the exup valve, although it has been starting to squeak the last couple of weeks when I switched the ignition on.

Strikes me that you either attack this exup valve and deal with the consequences of dismantling before it breaks, or do it when it breaks. Either way, it would appear that if bikes got more than 6k miles on it, chances are its gonna be a nightmare, so may as well do it sooner rather than later, IMO.

Anyway, not sure what has happened with this valve in the past, but the cover is fixed in a bit of a Heath Robinson fashion, spaced out from the valve by large nuts , with the cover securing bolts obviously passing through these.

That's the first oddity.

I have been soaking the exup bolts with penetrating oil the last week, so thought I'd give it a go yesterday. Had the blowtorch on the first one for a good while to heat things up. First bolt (bottom left) finally began to shift. Second bolt (top left) had the same treatment, and again came out with not too much trouble. The third bolt (the one on the right), no such luck. Blowtorch on it for ages, didn't feel like it was happening. More penetrating oil and then an hour later, more blowtorch action for ages. Then finally....snap.

Fuck it.

So, was able to get the exup valve out. Looked clean enough, although was definitely dry and squeaky.

Took the cable pulley off, and there's a big chunk snapped off it, doesn't affect operation, also the centre bolt has clearly been had a pop at previously, as the thread was fucked inside the bronze valve spindle end.

So yeah. I think someone has had a crack at getting this off, or has done something to the valve in the past bearing in mind the above. Perhaps the bolt that sheared was the one that they'd tried to undo already without the oil and blowtorch, maybe weakening it...I dunno.

Went and bought myself a tap and die set and rethreaded the valve end so the bolt will fit it properly.

A then I began the painstaking task of trying to drill out the old bolt. Fuck knows what is going on with this, as it simply was not happening. I've burnt through more drill bits than I can remember, and whilst I did manage to get a small hole forming (ie: nearly drilled through), it was just eating drill bits at an alarming rate. Nothing I've read suggests you'd need diamond tipped drills to do this!!??

Anyway, gave up with it, the reason being that once the valve is relocated in place, the circular bit of the end plate fits snugly into the exhaust, and doesn't seem to be going anywhere with the two left bolts holding it in place.

The concern I had is that the cable bracket is held in place by the top left bolt and the one on the right...which I don't have anymore, as its buggered. Again, whilst it seem to be held in place in a fairly secure fashion, I was concerned about the leverage exerted on the one bolt, and that the cable bracket would eventually creep round.

Took the cable bracket off again, and went delving round the shed for a bit of metal bar I could use. My plan was to fix the bar to the 'missing bolt' bolt hole on the cable bracket, which would then be fixed at the other end to the lower cover bolt hole. I should've taken a picture, but quite frankly , I just needed to get it all back together ASAP.

So, pop rivetted the new bar to the cable bracket, bolted everything up and it seems to work fine and the cable bracket is just as secure as it was originally before it all went to shit.

Everything is copper greased, and all new bolts are stainless.

Took the cover off and adjusted the cables and there's no squeaking anymore and everything seems to be working ok.

I can't decide if I should take the bike somewhere and see about having the buggered hole drilled out properly and re threaded, or just leave it and see how things work out?

Any thoughts please chaps?

Oh, I serviced the bike yesterday too before all this aggravation!

FazerRuss · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 May 2013, 08:03:31 pm »

Oh, and are the downpipes and exup on my 2002 fazer fzs1000 the same as on the r1?

slimwilly · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 May 2013, 06:50:17 am »

Burning out drill bits!!!

If you use a drill at high speed then the bits get red hot and go soft.So you must use a very slow speed electric drill to drill steel and lots of pressure.

steeeve66 · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 May 2013, 07:39:49 am »

Not sure what you're heating with the blowtorch? It shouldn't be the bolt though, it should be the exhaust section - as you want that to expand and the bolt to stay small (so to speak)?
Pretty sure I had the same problems as you with bolts shearing off - in the end I took the pipes off and took them to a small engineering works to be re-drilled and helicoiled, cost around £60 and in my opinion isn't really something you could tackle with a hand drill. S

FazerRuss · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 May 2013, 07:55:00 am »

Yes, of course I was heating the exhaust section - no point in heating the bolt themselves clearly.

RE: drill bits - I tried slow, fast, little pressure, lots of pressure, nothing seemed to make any difference to be honest, as it would just blunt the tips and then wouldn't actually drill anything. $:\$ I must've snapped most of them to be honest with the pressure, combined with the tip blunting and not doing anythign useful.

I'd considered taking the exhaust off to be honest, but then the way things had panned out so far, I could just imagine half the manifold studs shearing as well - the first 2 nuts came off without any issue, but the third felt very stuck and I bottled out!

My plan of action is to (a) speak to a bike mechanic chap I've used a few times before and see if he can sort out the 'nearly drilled out' bolt as I know he's got a pillar drill in his workshop, and i trust him (b) get a second set of downpipes complete with valve so I can clean the whole downpipe section up so they look like new and service the valve in them, then swap the whole lot over.

Camshaft · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 May 2013, 11:22:14 am »

Your fears are my fears, one hex bolt snapped off in my case and oh crap, STOP! before digging yourself into a bigger hole. Plan and be patient I'm telling myself.
Yes, the header bolts potentially snapping - what a fuck off that'd be.

In the drilling dept, perhaps some drilling lube could help out giving sufficient time out for cooling and more lube, 3-4 seconds at a time to be safe and sure. The drilling lube will help the bit to be far more efficient at cutting.

FazerRuss · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 May 2013, 01:23:11 pm »

2 bits of better news.

1) spoke to aforementioned trusty bike chap. He said yes he was well aware of the exup valves, and is quite proficient in drilling and retapping! However, he also said he's seen loads (unsuriprisingly) that were only held in my 2 bolts and didnt' give any issues - so I think I'll see how things work for a bit. Certainly seemed ok yesterday when I fired the bike up.

2) Just for shits and giggles, called Yamaha to enquire about the cost of new downpipes and exup. £1500+VAT. PMSL! Even the advisor said "that's bloody ridiculous, you could buy another bike for that". However, have found second hand downpipes (with the exup removed and all threads in good working order!) that I've bought, with a view to swapping my working and pretty good condition valve over into at some point.

Skinbobrabbit · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 May 2013, 01:41:30 pm »

I had a very similar issue with a 2003 R1. After much swearing and screaming, I bought a second hand set of pipes and valve, and gave them a good seeing to before I re-fitted it. Job's a fish

FazerRuss · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 May 2013, 01:46:22 pm »

Here's a quick diagram of what' I've done (thanks to cartestsoftware's website for the picture!).

Rivet top

Cover allen bolt below.

Black bit is the metal bar!

solorider · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 May 2013, 09:53:51 pm »

all of my bolts sheared off when I took my exup valve off,and mine was badly worn so I had to get some replacement downpipes

and here is the state of my pipes

steeeve66 · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 May 2013, 10:18:28 pm »

Quote from: solorider on 14 May 2013, 09:53:51 pm

all of my bolts sheared off when I took my exup valve off,and mine was badly worn so I had to get some replacement downpipes

and here is the state of my pipes

There are bits of the Titanic in better nick than that!

Skinbobrabbit · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 May 2013, 01:02:49 pm »

Holy poo!

FazerRuss · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 May 2013, 01:18:07 pm »

Bloody hell! Mine look new compared to that!!

A little update on mine.

Not sure if it's down to having fresh oil and filter, nicely cleaned and lubed exup, placebo or a cobination of all 3, but the bike feels nicer to ride today. The power delivery is smoother and it just feels a little mroe lively.

I wonder if the valve was not seized, but not operating smoothly before hand. $:\$ As I wasn't getting any 7k dash error or anything.

Either way, feels much nicer now

FazerRuss · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 May 2013, 09:17:28 am »

Little update, which may be of use to others.

I noticed the other night that the bikes engine seemed to be rattling at aroudn 2000-3000 rpm. The rattle got faster with engine speed.

Also noticed the bike exhaust seems to pop and burble a lot more than usual.

Having spent the night googling last night, I came toe the conclusion (a bit like Newton and his apple) that there was a fair chance the partially drilled out bolt may well be the cause.

So before I left for work this morning, I whipped off the EXUP valve again and sealed the half drilled out hole with some firegum. I could see some carbon deposits from where the exhaust was blowing ever so slighltly out of the 1-2mm dia. drilled out hole.

Copper-greased everything again for good measure and reassembled.

I rode it carefully to work (14 miles), not really revving it hard (ie: not over 5-6k) so the firefum would standa a good chance of setting.

Touch wood, that seems to have solved it

I couldn't hear any rattling sounds and there was not the noticeable popping and burbling on overrun either. Who'd have thought such a small hole would make noises like a timing or cam chain rattle?!

Anyway, thought that might be useful information for someone.

FazerRuss · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 July 2013, 01:19:34 pm »

Another update.

I've managed to source another set of downpipes complete with (seized) exup valve.

So the plan is to clean up this other set, strip the valve out and clean it up, then swap the whole lot over. Whilst what I have done is working fine, it's just annoying me knowing that it's not perfect....it's just how i am wired unforunately!

seangee · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 July 2013, 02:34:48 pm »

Quote from: FazerRuss on 21 May 2013, 09:17:28 am

Also noticed the bike exhaust seems to pop and burble a lot more than usual.
...
Touch wood, that seems to have solved it

Damn - if you only new how hard I worked to make mine pop and burble on the over-run

fazer-rat · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 July 2013, 07:11:06 pm »

Quote from: FazerRuss on 10 July 2013, 01:19:34 pm

Another update.

I've managed to source another set of downpipes complete with (seized) exup valve.

So the plan is to clean up this other set, strip the valve out and clean it up, then swap the whole lot over. Whilst what I have done is working fine, it's just annoying me knowing that it's not perfect....it's just how i am wired unforunately!

hi m8
i'm desperate for a set of useable downpipes cos my exup cover is welded on and there are no cables,, so when you're sorted i'd be very interested in a set of pipes with exup even if theres only 2 bolts

oh and where the hell do you keep sourcing used headers from?
julian

FazerRuss · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 July 2013, 10:55:38 am »

Well, I have my "new" set of pipes cleaned up.

Valve removed (after a week of soaking with plusgas), and even with gratuitous application of a blowlamp, giving the bolt and surrounding areas a bit of a gentle bashing with a hammer to try free things up, i still had a bolt shear on me.

2 came out very easily though, so the plusgas and heat must help, but I do think that the chances of getting all bolts out unscathed are slim to none.

I did manage to successfully drill out the busted bolt this time though

The valve on this one was seized beyond belief. Loads of carb cleaner to try break down some of the carbon deposits, loads of plusgas again and still no joy. Ended up with the valve held in the vice and having to hit the mounting plate (carefully!) with a hammer to get things moving. Once it started though, it was all good with some WD40 to help things. lots of rusty colour liquid came out, but it's nice and free now (and doused in copper grease).

So all good for the exhaust swap, which I'm dreading. The exuast studs don't look too badly corroded to be honest, but after the exup experience, I'm very apprehensive.

FazerRuss · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 July 2013, 10:58:08 am »

Quote from: fazer-rat on 11 July 2013, 07:11:06 pm

Quote from: FazerRuss on 10 July 2013, 01:19:34 pm
Another update.

I've managed to source another set of downpipes complete with (seized) exup valve.

So the plan is to clean up this other set, strip the valve out and clean it up, then swap the whole lot over. Whilst what I have done is working fine, it's just annoying me knowing that it's not perfect....it's just how i am wired unforunately!
hi m8
i'm desperate for a set of useable downpipes cos my exup cover is welded on and there are no cables,, so when you're sorted i'd be very interested in a set of pipes with exup even if theres only 2 bolts
oh and where the hell do you keep sourcing used headers from?
julian

This is the first set of headers I've bought? The first set I'd found had dented pipes, so I wasn't interested.

PM me your email or phone number, and I'll give you a shout when I've done the exhaust swap.

fazer-rat · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 July 2013, 07:23:24 pm »

pm sent thanks

marcusfordus · « **Reply #20 on:** 16 July 2013, 07:28:12 pm »

All this drilling going off, are you just using HSS drill bits ????

If you are, you need to change them to the correct type. (I worked with a proper engineer, who knew everything about everything in metals, top bloke rode a Goldwing !).

I did what he said and was able to drill all sorts of stuff the normal bits wouldn't touch. The bits were pricey though.

FazerRuss · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 July 2013, 04:00:32 pm »

Yes, regular HSS drill bit worked just fine on this one.