Author Topic: The dreaded ethanol !! (Read 5294 times)

judder · « **on:** 19 October 2016, 08:48:10 pm »

Evening all !!
I have just introduced myself on the Newbie page !!
I was saying I have bought a 2003 Fazer 600 with only 4500 on it. I was offered it by an old chap I know, and its in mint condition.
It's been kept warm and dry, but the ethanol has been at work.
It starts and runs beautifully, over 2000 rpm, but goes onto three cylinders on tickover.
After reading on your great forum, I guess the pilot jets need cleaning through, so can anyone suggest where to get my float bowl gaskets - should I pay £7.50 each from Fowlers, or has anyone used Wemoto ones for £3.80 each !
Any other advice would be very welcome !!

misterjayb1 · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 October 2016, 09:29:06 pm »

Many have re-used the originals several times.. I have purchased the non genuine items without an issue before now

judder · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 October 2016, 10:36:02 pm »

Thanks misterjaybe1 !
I'm pretty competent, but trying to pluck up the courage to remove the carbs - not done that before. Got to be done though, even if its a shame to disturb them at such low miles. Mind you, its still 13 years old !!
I've studied the advice on here and it will be very useful.
I think if they're coming off, I'll use the Wemoto gaskets this time.
Thanks again.

TOADY · « **Reply #3 on:** 20 October 2016, 06:00:09 am »

Take off the inlet manifolds too whilst you're at it and give them a good feed. Soak in hot water to keep them supple should be some info on YouTube etc about keeping carb rubbers fed and supple, fzs are famed for cracked rubbers.
Also have you tried reddex in your fuel tank before cleaning carbs etc or car cleaner sprayed through the airbox

darrsi · « **Reply #4 on:** 20 October 2016, 06:20:37 am »

I've never felt that Reddex has ever made the slightest bit of difference to any of my bikes whenever i've used it in the past.

The only one i've used where i've consistently noticed an improvement is STP Complete Fuel System Cleaner.

Just stick the whole bottle in a full tank of fuel and let it do its thing.

It's £15 off the shelf at Halfords, or cheaper online but obviously you'll have to wait for it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STP-Complete-PETROL-Fuel-System-Cleaner-Concentrated-Cleaning-Power-400ml-/162227454403?hash=item25c58281c3:g:Fi8AAOSwmLlX87RK

andybesy · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 October 2016, 07:14:42 am »

Wecome Judder - good to have you on board and I have no doubt you'll come to value this forum greatly, very handy for all sorts of shizzle.

Re the STP additive, how long does it last? I fear I know the answer to this but just to check. I bought a bottle couple of years back and used half but never got around to using the second half. Haven't thrown it away yet simply due to need to dispose of it properly. Would it be a bad idea to use the second half if it might have 'gone off' by this stage? Sorry for the brief aside.

Andy

TOADY · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 October 2016, 09:16:36 am »

Quote from: andybesy on 20 October 2016, 07:14:42 am

Wecome Judder - good to have you on board and I have no doubt you'll come to value this forum greatly, very handy for all sorts of shizzle.

Re the STP additive, how long does it last? I fear I know the answer to this but just to check. I bought a bottle couple of years back and used half but never got around to using the second half. Haven't thrown it away yet simply due to need to dispose of it properly. Would it be a bad idea to use the second half if it might have 'gone off' by this stage? Sorry for the brief aside.

Andy

here you go Andy, just pinched this from the STP website.

[/size]What’s the shelf life? How long can I store it? The storage life of STP[/url][/font][/size]®[/color][/size] [/color][/font]products is guaranteed for a minimum of two years. However, although our testing guarantees a minimum of two year’s shelf life, our experience has indicated that if our products are stored properly, they can remain stable and retain their effectiveness for an indefinite period of time.[/color][/url][/font][/color][/size]hope this helps[/url][/font][/color][/size]chris[/url][/font][/color]

darrsi · « **Reply #7 on:** 20 October 2016, 11:06:43 am »

It's got jet fuel in it plus anti corrosion properties so I can't really imagine it going off, certainly not after a couple of years anyway.
Just put the rest of the bottle in a full tank and I'm sure it'll be just fine.

andybesy · « **Reply #8 on:** 20 October 2016, 01:46:49 pm »

Oh that's good news, Thanks both.

Andy

bikemad · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 October 2016, 10:38:12 pm »

After having mine off 4 times I'm a dab hand at it now lol

the O rings on the float seats where knakered letting fuel in though down the sides,also check the air screw O rings too !
Same as yours mine ran on 3 then not at all after initial cleaning until I discovered the rotten seals lol

peteski · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 October 2016, 05:29:31 pm »

It'll likely be a blocked pilot jet if it runs ok on throttle but not at idle. It's happened to mine twice now. Of cause you'll want to go through and clean all four once you have them out but you can find the culprit by starting it from cold and, running at idle, feel each exhaust down-tube. You'll find three heating up and one much colder. Obviously after a minute of running they'll be too hot to touch so you have to do it strait away.

You can reuse the carb seals if the look fine and you're careful removing them.

YamFazFan · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 October 2016, 06:53:27 pm »

Do you know for sure that it is the ethanol content that is causing this issue?.

I didn't think bikes as recent as the Fazers were affected by ethanol.

I know a number of the vintage motorcycle enthusiasts have had problems with it, but all the cases that I've read about concerned its incompatibility with certain materials. ie: stripping the fuel sealing compound from the inside of the tank and degrading certain pipes/gasket material etc...

In those cases it was the actual broken-down material in the fuel system that the ethanol had reacted with that caused the problem.

When the pilot jet/s blocked on my Fazer I was told that it was due to the residue left behind by old evaporated fuel.

Ethanol is basically alcohol isn't it?. Would that leave a residue when it evaporates?.

I think normal unleaded is currently 5% ethanol.

bikemad · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 October 2016, 07:13:46 pm »

Ethanol is hygroscopic it absorbs water great when it's in fuel !
I've seen orangey brown crystals form that block jets happened to my XT600 last year after a short while of been laid up over winter.
Simply put we really don't need ethanol we pay top money for fuel but they mix shit with it that probably costs less thus they make more £s nuff said 😡

judder · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 October 2016, 07:57:16 pm »

Thanks fellas, some good advice there !
And cheers Peteski, I'll try the pipe check, but clean them all. I'll also salvage the gaskets with care.
After reading about the STP, I might run it on a tankful of fuel/STP . Actually, it seems like it may be worth doing that say every 12 months just for a carb clean. Wouldn't do any harm.
Anyway here's to carbs off :-(

YamFazFan · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 October 2016, 08:50:44 pm »

Quote from: bikemad on 21 October 2016, 07:13:46 pm

I've seen orangey brown crystals form that block jets happened to my XT600 last year after a short while of been laid up over winter.

Is that definitely attributable to the ethanol contained in the fuel?.

Would that have happened in the past when petrol didn't contain a portion of ethanol?.

bikemad · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 October 2016, 04:16:19 pm »

Quote from: YamFazFan on 21 October 2016, 08:50:44 pm

Quote from: bikemad on 21 October 2016, 07:13:46 pm
I've seen orangey brown crystals form that block jets happened to my XT600 last year after a short while of been laid up over winter.

Is that definitely attributable to the ethanol contained in the fuel?.

Would that have happened in the past when petrol didn't contain a portion of ethanol?.

Can't directly say but varnish in green/orange/brown forms in any fuel systems but petrol defo goes off quicker nowadays since introduction of the stuff !

misterjayb1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 October 2016, 05:23:24 pm »

I was always lead to believe that the main damage caused by ethanol, particularly in the cheaper lower octane petrol, was to any rubber components, o-rings, seals, gaskets etc within the fuel system..

Jbizzle · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 October 2016, 09:59:47 pm »

This brought my attention to the dangers of ethanol, this article is pretty clear it is not the best!

http://www.cycleworld.com/real-world-look-at-alcohol-in-your-tank/?src=SOC&dom=fb

Yet according to BP they do not put ethanol on "BP Ultimate";

http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp-country/en_au/media/fuel-news/fuel-octane-power.pdf

Maybe there is some value in the expensive stuff after all?

Carter · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 October 2016, 06:16:49 pm »

Thanks for the links, that's an interesting read. Bring back leaded petrol ! It never did us oldies any harm;)

YamFazFan · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 October 2016, 08:11:59 pm »

Yes thanks for posting the links.

I think the BP one is Australia. It mentions 10% ethanol content for one of the fuels. I didn't think there is any over 5% here, but I may be wrong.

YamFazFan · « **Reply #20 on:** 30 October 2016, 04:04:32 pm »

Just filled up with BP Ultimate 97.

If it's ethanol free then that'll do me

tommyardin · « **Reply #21 on:** 30 October 2016, 11:18:09 pm »

Quote from: darrsi on 20 October 2016, 06:20:37 am

I've never felt that Reddex has ever made the slightest bit of difference to any of my bikes whenever i've used it in the past.

The only one i've used where i've consistently noticed an improvement is STP Complete Fuel System Cleaner.

Just stick the whole bottle in a full tank of fuel and let it do its thing.

It's £15 off the shelf at Halfords, or cheaper online but obviously you'll have to wait for it.

Make sure you don't buy the STP Diesel Fuel Cleaner, I know a twat who did.
Want to buy it? LOL!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STP-Complete-PETROL-Fuel-System-Cleaner-Concentrated-Cleaning-Power-400ml-/162227454403?hash=item25c58281c3:g:Fi8AAOSwmLlX87RK

celticdog · « **Reply #22 on:** 31 October 2016, 11:14:40 pm »

Ethanol is undiluted Vodka, all you'll end up doing is getting your bike drunk and give it one hell of a hangover

Freck · « **Reply #23 on:** 01 November 2016, 12:14:58 am »

You should be thankful you don't have a plastic tank like my Triumph. The ethanol really knackers them causing tank distortion, bubbling of the paint and fuel leaks.