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General => General => Topic started by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 September 2019, 11:36:54 am

Title: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 September 2019, 11:36:54 am
Flashing 'wrong way' lights are being trialled on the M9 and A1
https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/flashing-wrong-way-warning-signs-to-be-trialled-at-a1-and-m9-motorway-junctions-after-seven-deaths-in-four-years-1-5013564 (https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/flashing-wrong-way-warning-signs-to-be-trialled-at-a1-and-m9-motorway-junctions-after-seven-deaths-in-four-years-1-5013564)

Whatdayathink?
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 September 2019, 11:37:25 am
God only knows why I can't embed youtube videos anymore.
Well on second thoughts he won't becuase he doesn't exist - but lets not go there :lol
Just go the right way, whatever way that is :)
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Dudeofrude on 30 September 2019, 11:53:47 am
Well seems like an simple and obvious idea. My only worry is that if someone is stupid enough to not know they're on the wrong side of the road then  how can expect them to notice a sign.... or even be able to read for that matter :lol
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Dynspud on 30 September 2019, 01:37:42 pm
Does that road have No Entry signs to stop people turning in there in the first place?
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 September 2019, 04:19:18 pm
Yup all those slip roads have no entry signs.
But it happens.
Seems like a good idea to me.
Worked for the car in the youtube video - see article.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 30 September 2019, 04:21:00 pm
The problem with this is that the type of person who would get on the motorway and drive the wrong way is someone who is confused.

If/When they see the sign, what would they do? It is counter intuitive to pull over on the hard shoulder as for them, that's way over to the right hand side of the road so they are likely to stop where they are in what we see as the outside lane and potentially get out of their car into the face of oncoming fast traffic.
Someone with their wits about them would do a U-turn as soon as they safely could and get going the right way again. The people who are doing it though are unlikely to be thinking straight enough to do that.

I can see a need for it, but am not sure it will help.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 30 September 2019, 04:23:12 pm
Many years ago, my dad was involved in a head on collision with someone who had reached the bottom of the slip road and turned right (did a u-turn) instead of going the right way. They moved to what they thought was the nearside lane but actually ended up nose to nose with my dads car. This guy was in his 70's or 80's and was banned from driving as a result.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 30 September 2019, 06:35:48 pm
In Austria, they have signs on the slip roads that say "Falsch" which translates as "Not correct".


But the problem is that, for example, where someone is tired or bored or not paying attention for some other reason, you can have all the warning signs and flashing lights and people will *still* fail to notice them.

Here's a video that someone posted on another forum. There are warning signs, flashing lights etc, yet *still* people manage to wreck their vehicles by trying to drive under a bridge that's too low for them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USu8vT_tfdw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USu8vT_tfdw)


They built a steel U shape in front of it to prevent the bridge being damaged after too many idiots hit it...
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 30 September 2019, 08:47:19 pm
 Can’t see your video Graham,
 
Quote
But the problem is that, for example, where someone is tired or bored or not paying attention for some other reason, you can have all the warning signs and flashing lights and people will *still* fail to notice them.

But if I can take you up on that point.  It can be a simple lapse of concentration, which all too often is at the heart of so many road traffic incidents.
And as we can see in the newspaper video – well it appears to work.  A big bright flashing no entry sign jumps out nowhere.
It’s being trialled at a number of junctions – presumably they have it set up to record whenever it is triggered to log results – so time will tell.
VNA thinks it will probably be effective.     Gotta be worth a shot. :)
 
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 30 September 2019, 11:40:35 pm
Can’t see your video Graham,

I don't know why not, it's just a standard YouTube vid.

If you go to YouTube and enter USu8vT_tfdw in the search bar you should see it.
 
Quote
Quote
But the problem is that, for example, where someone is tired or bored or not paying attention for some other reason, you can have all the warning signs and flashing lights and people will *still* fail to notice them.

But if I can take you up on that point.  It can be a simple lapse of concentration, which all too often is at the heart of so many road traffic incidents.
And as we can see in the newspaper video – well it appears to work.  A big bright flashing no entry sign jumps out nowhere.

Personally I think a big sign should slap them over the head... :D
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 01 October 2019, 12:32:23 pm

VNA thinks it will probably be effective.     


Is that what he told you? :eek
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 October 2019, 06:32:31 pm
Quote
Here's a video that someone posted on another forum. There are warning signs, flashing lights etc, yet *still* people manage to wreck their vehicles by trying to drive under a bridge that's too low for them.
 
Found the video.  Naw it’s a different situation.  It’s not the same.  The bridge is about drivers not being aware of the height of their vehicle and/or that it is of such a height that it may contact with certain bridges on the highway.


 
jM8YT7itL3WzBWQ
 
In ‘my’ video, you can see the driver has made the wrong decision.  It’s a moments confusion or whatever – and yup like the bridge it keeps happening.  But then the big foc off wrong way lights come on, he/she stops, then realises his/her mistake and turns back.  Thus avoiding a potentially very accident. 



Anyway it will be interesting to see what they conclude with this trial. 
 
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 October 2019, 06:38:58 pm
Foc sake >: I'll try this;
https://youtu.be/CRz0KS-tDao
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 01 October 2019, 06:39:23 pm
Bingo! :)
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 04 October 2019, 01:19:55 am
Found the video.  Naw it’s a different situation.  It’s not the same.  The bridge is about drivers not being aware of the height of their vehicle and/or that it is of such a height that it may contact with certain bridges on the highway.

The point is they're still managing to ignore blatant warning signs, lights and so on.

Quote
In ‘my’ video, you can see the driver has made the wrong decision.  It’s a moments confusion or whatever – and yup like the bridge it keeps happening.  But then the big foc off wrong way lights come on, he/she stops, then realises his/her mistake and turns back.  Thus avoiding a potentially very accident. 

Sure, but it only takes one idiot to not pay attention or think "that doesn't apply to me".

In any case, I'd like to know exactly where that is, because I'd love to have a look at it on Google Streetview.

IMO if that "keeps" happening, there is something fundamentally wrong with the signage and design of the slip road that makes it keep happening.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 04 October 2019, 07:24:43 pm
 I think the idea is prevent dozy wazzocks and confused foreigners making such a mistake.  It may also help the 100,000’s of thousands of drivers suffering from dementia that are out there on our roads.
Quote
In any case, I'd like to know exactly where that is, because I'd love to have a look at it on Google Streetview.

IMO if that "keeps" happening, there is something fundamentally wrong with the signage and design of the slip road that makes it keep happening.

 
The rough junction locations are named in the article.  This looks like the one in the video.  The B8046 to M9 junction. 
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9835595,-3.5313096,15z (https://www.google.com/maps/@55.9835595,-3.5313096,15z)
Drop yer wee man in and drive aboot in google maps tae yer hearts content.
 
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 05 October 2019, 12:22:11 am
Ok, so there's a sign showing two turnings, one with a big no-entry sign and the other saying M9.
Then there's a "No Right Turn" sign on the left and two No Entry signs at the junction on the "wrong way" slip road, so there's certainly adequate signage for anyone who's paying attention.
They could add a "NO ENTRY" sign painted on the road at the entrance to the junction.
But, to be honest, what I think would probably be best would be to narrow down the entrance to the junction. Yes, ok, it might cause a few more tailbacks on the slip road leaving the motorway (I don't know how busy it is), but taking out that big wide entry would make it a lot less tempting for someone to turn into it.


Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 05 October 2019, 11:50:13 am
 
Quote
Then there's a "No Right Turn" sign on the left and two No Entry signs at the junction on the "wrong way" slip road, so there's certainly adequate signage for anyone who's paying attention.

Plus, the road markings.  Which would be my one suggestion – keep all the road markings on such motorway and dual carriageway junctions fresh.
I think the exit is standard width, and is that width so that articulated vehicles can exit with ease.  Yes the M9 is busy. 
Lets see how the trial goes…..
 
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 05 October 2019, 10:46:38 pm
I think the exit is standard width, and is that width so that articulated vehicles can exit with ease.   

Ok, I'd not considered that, but I can see the reasoning.

In that case, they could try what's been done on some roundabouts here, where there's an outer circle of red "bricks" (or something, that's what they look like) which are intended to encourage people to drive around them, rather than cut across.

If those were put at the entrance, there would still be space for the artics to turn whilst giving the visual impression of a narrow entry.

Ok, the Wrong Way signs are probably cheaper, but the less the chances of someone turning up there in the first place, the better.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 October 2019, 12:27:04 pm
Quote
Ok, I'd not considered that, but I can see the reasoning.

In that case, they could try what's been done on some roundabouts here, where there's an outer circle of red "bricks" (or something, that's what they look like) which are intended to encourage people to drive around them, rather than cut across.

If those were put at the entrance, there would still be space for the artics to turn whilst giving the visual impression of a narrow entry.
I have no idea what you are on about.
As it says it's a trial.  I think it's interesting and it might very well be effective.  The idea of the trial is of course to see how effective it is.  It's well worth a shot.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 06 October 2019, 01:19:22 pm
Quote
In that case, they could try what's been done on some roundabouts here, where there's an outer circle of red "bricks" (or something, that's what they look like) which are intended to encourage people to drive around them, rather than cut across.

I have no idea what you are on about.

Maybe you don't have them in your part of the world.

This has red tarmac rather than bricks, but the idea is that most vehicles should avoid and go around the red section, but artics etc can use the red tarmac to give them extra space to turn.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 06 October 2019, 04:30:47 pm
Never seen that on a roundabout.
But it is a roundabout - not a junction.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Dudeofrude on 06 October 2019, 07:22:05 pm
Quote
In that case, they could try what's been done on some roundabouts here, where there's an outer circle of red "bricks" (or something, that's what they look like) which are intended to encourage people to drive around them, rather than cut across.

I have no idea what you are on about.

Maybe you don't have them in your part of the world.

This has red tarmac rather than bricks, but the idea is that most vehicles should avoid and go around the red section, but artics etc can use the red tarmac to give them extra space to turn.

Never seen that before either?
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 06 October 2019, 07:40:49 pm
I have seen something similar in Sussex though it was just different colour bricks rather than red tarmac
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 06 October 2019, 08:51:59 pm
.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 07 October 2019, 12:17:48 pm

Bit of a diversion from the thread title but whilst on the subject of roundabouts...


Which is the correct lane to take when entering a roundabout where there's 2 lanes on the approach/entry but neither has any direction arrows painted or signed, and you wish to go straight over where the exit is a single lane?.



Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Jamieg285 on 07 October 2019, 12:51:01 pm

Bit of a diversion from the thread title but whilst on the subject of roundabouts...


Which is the correct lane to take when entering a roundabout where there's 2 lanes on the approach/entry but neither has any direction arrows painted or signed, and you wish to go straight over where the exit is a single lane?.


In this instance I'm not sure there is a right/wrong.


Personally, in this situation I'd normally always be in the right lane.  In most cases I'd be able to safely slip in front/behind another vehicle if it's in the left lane and going straight on, and in worst case scenario I just keep going around the roundabout as a safety get out.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: BBROWN1664 on 07 October 2019, 09:47:03 pm

Bit of a diversion from the thread title but whilst on the subject of roundabouts...


Which is the correct lane to take when entering a roundabout where there's 2 lanes on the approach/entry but neither has any direction arrows painted or signed, and you wish to go straight over where the exit is a single lane?.





The left lane unless there are no other exits beyond the one you are taking
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 08 October 2019, 07:36:47 am


Bit of a diversion from the thread title but whilst on the subject of roundabouts...


Which is the correct lane to take when entering a roundabout where there's 2 lanes on the approach/entry but neither has any direction arrows painted or signed, and you wish to go straight over where the exit is a single lane?.





The left lane unless there are no other exits beyond the one you are taking


Yeah that's the lane I always use although I often find that when I get to the exit the vehicle that was in the right hand lane beside me on entry to the roundabout is now cutting across in front to take the same exit.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 08 October 2019, 11:56:53 pm
Never seen that on a roundabout.
But it is a roundabout - not a junction.

Err, a roundabout *is* a junction.

But the point is that it is designed to encourage people to avoid using that bit of the road.

We have a fair amount of such markings down here in Hampshire, they also put this down the centre of roads where they want to discourage overtaking (eg on the A272 eastbound from Loomies  (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.0315739,-1.0467235,3a,75y,101.6h,88.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH-4PjJ8l1vi_CVIY9XIJlQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)) where you get a lot of bikers overtaking irresponsibly.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 09 October 2019, 12:01:57 am
Which is the correct lane to take when entering a roundabout where there's 2 lanes on the approach/entry but neither has any direction arrows painted or signed, and you wish to go straight over where the exit is a single lane?.

Highway Code Paragraph 186 (https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.html)

Quote
When taking the first exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

*    signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
*    keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.


When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

*    signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
*    keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
*    signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.


When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

*    select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout
*    you should not normally need to signal on approach
*    stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
*    signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 09 October 2019, 12:03:59 am
Personally, in this situation I'd normally always be in the right lane.  In most cases I'd be able to safely slip in front/behind another vehicle if it's in the left lane and going straight on, and in worst case scenario I just keep going around the roundabout as a safety get out.

If you're travelling westbound on the A30 going through Yeovil, watch out, because the big "Hospital Roundabout" is signposted such that the left hand lane is allowed to turn right!

This means that if you're in the right hand lane, expecting a car on your left to go straight on, they may decide to suddenly turn right across your path!!
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 October 2019, 08:06:38 am

Which is the correct lane to take when entering a roundabout where there's 2 lanes on the approach/entry but neither has any direction arrows painted or signed, and you wish to go straight over where the exit is a single lane?.

Highway Code Paragraph 186 (https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.html)

Quote
When taking the first exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

*    signal left and approach in the left-hand lane
*    keep to the left on the roundabout and continue signalling left to leave.


When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

*    signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
*    keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
*    signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.


When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

*    select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout
*    you should not normally need to signal on approach
*    stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
*    signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.


So it's left hand lane to take the first exit.


The right hand lane to take an exit to the right, or go full circle.


The 'appropriate' lane to go straight over. Is that the left lane or the right lane?.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 09 October 2019, 11:41:16 am
The 'appropriate' lane to go straight over. Is that the left lane or the right lane?.

The illustration shows the left lane being used to go straight over, although this is only a recommendation not mandatory.

You can take the right hand lane if you intend to go straight on and take the right hand lane on the straight-ahead exit (for instance to make progress past other traffic, especially if you're on a bike), but you should do this with great care in case a car from the left lane suddenly turns right without indication etc.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 09 October 2019, 12:29:57 pm

The illustration shows 2 entry lanes and 2 exit lanes.


What if there's 2 entry lanes, but only one exit lane?. Do you use left or right on entry to go straight ahead?
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Jamieg285 on 09 October 2019, 12:49:31 pm
Personally, in this situation I'd normally always be in the right lane.  In most cases I'd be able to safely slip in front/behind another vehicle if it's in the left lane and going straight on, and in worst case scenario I just keep going around the roundabout as a safety get out.


This means that if you're in the right hand lane, expecting a car on your left to go straight on, they may decide to suddenly turn right across your path!!


I tend to expect that anyway, the driving standards these days mean it's relatively common.  On my daily commute there's a 3 lane entry and 3 exits.  I go straight on where there is a 2 lane dual carriageway exit. I vary my entry lane between the middle and right lane depending on what cars are there, taking the left exit lane when in the middle and right exit lane when in the right lane.   The number of times I see a vehicle turn right when using the middle or even the left hand entry lane, cutting in front of those trying to go straight on is shocking.  Even more so when it's an Artic truck and everyone has to stop and wait for it.




 I usually try to time it so that I don't have a car on my left when on any roundabout, overtaking on the way onto the roundabout, rather than on it. 
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Jamieg285 on 09 October 2019, 12:55:48 pm


Highway Code Paragraph 186 (https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.html)

Quote

When taking any intermediate exit, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

*    select the appropriate lane on approach to and on the roundabout
*    you should not normally need to signal on approach
*    stay in this lane until you need to alter course to exit the roundabout
*    signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.


So it's left hand lane to take the first exit.


The right hand lane to take an exit to the right, or go full circle.


The 'appropriate' lane to go straight over. Is that the left lane or the right lane?.


The 'appropriate' lane is down to your judgement and circumstances.  Local knowledge and good observation really comes into play here.


My choice is usually down to the volume of traffic in each lane and their exit route.  If the majority are turning left, I will take the right.  If the majority are going left I will take the right. If it's a mix or majority straight on, I will pick the lane that is free-est flowing (usually the right lane, as most people assume left is the correct one) and pick my way through as safely as possible.


One of other thing of note, on a busy roundabout where there is slow moving/stop-start traffic, being in the right lane gives you a better opportunity to be the first out of the junction, especially if the gaps are too small for a car.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Grahamm on 10 October 2019, 12:26:14 am
The number of times I see a vehicle turn right when using the middle or even the left hand entry lane, cutting in front of those trying to go straight on is shocking.  Even more so when it's an Artic truck and everyone has to stop and wait for it.

Remember that an Artic needs a lot more space to turn, so they may *have* to take the left hand lane so the trailer clears the roundabout.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: Jamieg285 on 10 October 2019, 01:09:23 pm
The number of times I see a vehicle turn right when using the middle or even the left hand entry lane, cutting in front of those trying to go straight on is shocking.  Even more so when it's an Artic truck and everyone has to stop and wait for it.

Remember that an Artic needs a lot more space to turn, so they may *have* to take the left hand lane so the trailer clears the roundabout.


No, this is a large roundabout and that wouldn't be the case here.  It's the first roundabout off of the M1, Jn8


Had a car do it this morning, a few seconds ahead of me. 
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 October 2019, 02:10:58 pm

In my experience some car drivers will go to any lengths to jump a queue.


You see them doing it in even in light traffic. It's just an automatic reaction to any form of hold up :rolleyes
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 10 October 2019, 06:52:04 pm
FFS.  It's a thread aboot wrong way lights to prevent folks entering the wrong side of a dual carridgeway or motorway.
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 10 October 2019, 07:49:31 pm
FFS.  It's a thread aboot wrong way lights to prevent folks entering the wrong side of a dual carridgeway or motorway.
Calm down calm down :lol .

As you were. Thread diversion over. Promise :kiss



Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 10 October 2019, 10:08:03 pm
Quote
As you were. Thread diversion over. Promise
It foccing better be, or you know what will happen, I'll say ****** or maybe even mention B***s ;)
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: mtread on 10 October 2019, 11:16:16 pm
You can't blame YamFazFan. He's got all excited because he's now seen a yellow Foxeye :lol
[/size]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,25679.0.html
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 October 2019, 05:49:57 am
True, it was quite an event. But stop going off topic. It's about Wrong way lights and nothing else :wall
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 11 October 2019, 06:06:18 am
Quote
As you were. Thread diversion over. Promise
It foccing better be, or you know what will happen, I'll say ****** or maybe even mention B***s ;)
BRAKES & BIKES are a separate subject requiring a new thread :deal
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: VNA - BMW Wank on 11 October 2019, 07:30:18 pm
Quote
BRAKES & BIKES are a separate subject requiring a new thread
It's my foccing thread.  You have been warned. :finger
Title: Re: Wrong way lights
Post by: YamFazFan on 14 October 2019, 04:20:11 pm

Quote
BRAKES & BIKES are a separate subject requiring a new thread
It's my foccing thread.  You have been warned. :finger


Feel free. It's not me that's gonna be kicking up a stink if you do :lol