They are in the prison costing us a shed full of money it would cost next to nothing more to have a rehab programme

I think that’s the problem.  Rehabilitation programs whilst they may not cost a fortune, well they ain’t exactly cheap either.  They add to costs in the short term, but enable massive savings in the long term.

Sometimes showing someone a little kindness and interest produces results for the better, not always I'm sure, but sometimes it will.

Personally I’m not sure I give a flying fuck about certain criminal types.  Frankly if short, sharp, shock borstals or long term harsh heavy labour camps worked and turned out well balanced, socially minded individuals determined to make their way in society and never to reoffend, well hey that would be fine by me.  It sure sounds satisfying.


But, sadly, the reality is such policy has been proven to fail, and worse still, interestingly enough, has a habit of attracting sadistic individuals as employees. Such facilities have been proven to turn out large numbers of 5 star total nutters.  Whatever goes in comes out five times more fucked up.


On the other hand, educational rehabilitation centres that force criminals to face up to and take responsibility for their actions are proven to turn out large numbers of reformed decent individuals determined to become valued members of society.


My interest is simple, it’s only in being able to live in a civilised society, not having to worry too much about being done over, have my house broken into, or having large chunks of my tax cash wasted on dumb boot camps that are proven not to work.

 

Prison is also supposed to be a deterrent. If poor, deprived little Johnny Crackhead can expect an easy ride after terrorising his neighbourhood, he isn't likely to change his ways, is he?

I sure don’t fancy prison.

Talking about your Johnny Crackhead, I remember reading of one long running experimental prison rehabilitation programme.  Basically, first time offenders like Johnny Crackhead were offered to be part of a fast track rehabilitation programme.  In exchange for active participation and good behaviour their sentence could be significantly reduced.  But first the victim had to agree to this and also to taking part.  The idea was that young or first time offenders like Johnny would have to face up to their crimes.  There were various aspects to the scheme, but one key part was several sessions sitting down face to face with the victim of whatever their crime was.


There was also a TV documentary about said scheme.  The effect on the offender was startling.  Nor was it easy viewing.  I can’t remember the precise stats for the experiment, but it was something in the order of those whom participated in it were 3 or 4 times less likely to re-offend then those who didn’t take part.  It was, in other words, fantastically successful.


As far as I know most of these schemes have been ditched.


As we can see on this thread rehabilitation of offenders is not popular and frankly not a vote winner. 


Hang em, beat em, let them rot etc is much more popular.  So brain dead banging on about being tough on crime and talking pish aboot punishing criminals etc, rather than rehabilitating them, wins votes.  But the fact is a brutal prison system that has no interests in rehabilitation breeds hardened criminals and subsequently we all suffer.

  At the end of the day Brady was a psychopath.

I'm with others who think that the visit to the Moors a few years back was about Power.

Of course it was.  Psychopath’s need to be in control, they also need attention.  Even his will is an manipulative attention seeking document.


The public are his audience, and he has played to them.


As for the death penalty, and “beyond reasonable doubt” of which every guilty sentence is beyond reasonable doubt.  Though note that our law allows for doubt in that very statement of “beyond reasonable doubt”.  So what of the Birmingham six and the Guildford four?  Convictions on the back of corrupt policing and a dodgy legal system.  They would all be dead if some of you here had your way. And indeed when you think back to the convictions of those innocent men, well there was no doubt the public was baying for blood - big time.  An eye for an eye indeed.

I'd hardly call an absolute expectationg of a ceasefire prior to talks 'splitting hairs'

  I think you miss my point.  The British Government was in talks with the IRA long before there was a ceasefire.  And I was of the understanding that the Irish and British Governments issued a Joint Declaration on Peace before the Cease Fire.

 

I suspect the likes of Corbyn would have happily 'given' NI to the Republic without one second of thought to the unionist and protestant community and their human rights or wishes.

The Downing Street Declaration, by the way, stated that it was the right of the people of Northern Ireland to exercise the right of self-determination! 



So in fact there was not only talks but a concession before there was a cease fire and ‘official’ talks.

 

my issue with him, on the IRA matter, is that he rubbed shoulders with McGuinness and killer Adams, at the height of the troubles, long before they ceased fire, started a dialogue or decommission.

You don’t make peace with your friends.


I don’t see what the issue is.   It wasn’t long before it was government policy to speak to terrorists, and indeed that’s exactly what Mo Mowlam did.  Eventually through dialogue a cease fire and a peace agreement followed.


Mr Corbyn has always unequivocally condemned IRA violence, but he has (rightly I say) insisted on acknowledging the role of atrocities like Bloody Sunday and the treatment of IRA prisoners in precipitating radicalisation.

I can't see any valid defence of this.

The Thatcher government’s policy was an absolute utter failure.  And it cost a heck of a lot of lives.  Only when others adopted Mr Corbyn’s approach was progress made.


Mr Corbyn’s approach to the IRA is all the more reason to vote for him.

 

How can anyone contemplate voting for Mr. Corbyn

Well first they would have to reside in the right constituency.  This is not a presidential election.
 
 

his IRA links outweigh any brilliance

Mr Corbyn was not and is not a member of the IRA.

I may be biased after 26 years in the Armed Forces but some things cannot be forgiven.

Indeed, the British negligence that practically led to an almost apartheid Northern Ireland is difficult to forgive.  But NI proved once again that talking and political solutions and settlement is always preferable to conflict.

I think the reason is that She ( May ) doesn’t want to give any legitimisation by being in a tv debate with him.

She has a massive lead.  Why risk it in a debate?  She won’t score points in such debate.  Instead she’ll focus on stuff like ‘The One Show’ and talk about who puts the bins out in the May household.  Go figure.

Quote

technically you did undertake mate, the moment you pulled across them

You gonna issue me a ticket?
Who cares.
The point is, that unless I agree with them and state I am guilty, there is nothing they can do, other than check my license and my bike etc.

I suspect the turkeys having voted for Christmas last year will go and do it again this year.

Sadly.

I have said it before but Tony Blair was the best PM the labour party and the UK have had in decades.

Bollocks Tony Bliar should be locked up and the key thrown away.

  Look there were two or three years where New Labour delivered from 1997-2000.  Minimum wage, windfall tax on utilities, signing up to the EU social chapter, the Scottish Parliament referendum, human rights act, climate change targets, outlawing fox hunting, record investment in the NHS etc..


But then it all turned to shit.  Self-regulation of industry including fatally banking.  Unlimited cheap credit and belief that asset values could only go up, PPP (public private partnership) and the reintroduction of the Thatcherite privatisation agenda.  Gordon Brown’s miracle economy as it was known – no more boom and bust we were told.  But there are no miracles.  The real qualified economic experts were side-lined whist Brown took advice from people like Fred Goodwin and Tom McKillop whom has resided over the biggest bank growth in modern history (RBS).  From 2004 onwards it was clear the UK economy was heading towards a big crash, but what few people knew about was the debt packaging and debt trading between banks, and with light touch regulation the fact that many financial instructions and multi-national companies were banking future profits.(it’s was like fantasy banking).  New Labour did not regulate the financial industry.   Meanwhile ordinary folks were buying brand new cars and popping off on expensive holidays based on the soaring value of their homes.  Many are still stuck paying off massive mortgages on properties now worth considerably less then their loans.  The MP's bought and sold on the mortgages we'd paid but they pocketed the profit.


That’s one of the big problems Labour has today.  The Labour party – New Labour resided over one of the most insular, greedy and corrupt governments in modern times.  Then you add in the – you couldn’t make it up but they did – Iraq war.


As I said back then – The Labour Party are now the enemy.



However, there is now an opportunity to claim the peoples party back.  But there are still delusional Labour MP’s, just as there are delusional punters like Lew. 



Though you have at least managed to get one thing right Lew.  Yes Blair was Bush’s poodle.  Never, ever again should the UK be anybody’s poodle.  Never again should the UK be involved in regime change.  Never again should the UK enter conflict on the back of bare faced lies.  Further it’s about time we started shutting down our bloody arms trading and cancelled the Trident renewal.  Tony Blair destroyed the UK’s reputation right round the world.


In the meantime, people need to grasp the opportunity that is the Labour party under Jeremy Corbyn.  But sadly, I can’t see it happening, certainly not whilst numerous Labour MP’s are on the phone to the Daily Mail bitching about their leader.

That's news to me.

I'd just deny all, he can't do anything.  Even with two of them, there's no evidence.  At least that's how it is north of the border.

If you want to pick out 3 words from a whole post and quote them out of context then that's up to you but when read all together anyone can see what I was pointing out, let me remind you

I didn't quote them out of context.  But hey, instead of just saying - whoops sorry what I really mean't to say was.... - if you wanna blame me for what you said, well fire away 

You know others are hoping that the whole EU will fall apart now.  I think a good few on this forum have expressed pleasure at the very thought of this.


  But what that would actually mean is 28 countries.  28 bureaucracies, 28 passport borders and customs, 28 sets of rules and regulations, 28 sets of safety standards, 28 sets of employment relations, 28 sets of tariffs or perhaps trade deals.  28 countries bitching and fighting with each other.  And lest not forget the history of Europe.


So basically, small to medium, if not large companies as well, in the UK would have to choose which of those 28 former members of the EU that they wished to trade with.  Cos frankly the costs of trying to trade with them all would sink or destory many sizeable companies.  All the european economies would shrink.



Meanwhile guaranteed rights to holiday pay, maternity and paternal leave, equal treatment for part time and agency workers, along with EU consumer protection, travel protections, the working time directive and many other benefits written into EU law will be torn up by the Tories.


You want me to tell you what I think, well if it isn’t bloody stupid, it’s at least fucking selfish.  Basically we need the EU but we are refusing to pay ball.


And of course my country Scotland voted to stay in.  Yet people in English bought into a xenophobic campaign built on false news and alternative facts that dismissed all expert opinion.  Further it looks like the stupid people in England whom have voted to leave the EU, ie they have voted to become poorer, have now going to vote for a total shafting at the hands of - make it up as I go along - Theresa May.


Yup I’m somewhat pissed off with the whole stupid thing. 



Stupid.  Yes, you better believe it.

 

 

I got out

Fazersharp;



 The UK is still today a fully paid up member of the EU.  It has triggered article 50, which is a means to negotiate ‘our’ way out of our contractual membership of the EU.


It’s going to be far from simple.


Walking away, rather than a negotiated settlement, means tearing up those contracts.  Which in turn would not bode well for entering contractual trade deals with other countries.  Not to mention that the EU will always be bigger and stronger than the UK.

Mrs May with a strong UK backing will be able to get the best brexit possible

Mrs May is now campaigning for a hard Brexit, yet just a year ago she was a remainer warning of the dire consequences of leaving the EU.  Many people have suggested that May is the new Thatcher.  I’m sure she will be just as nasty, of not more so, but as I remember Thatcher’s politics were based on ideology, love it or loath (and I loathed it) Thatcher had a vision, she was if you like a conviction politician - she believed in what she was doing.


May on the other hand believes in nothing other than what will further her career.  This “difficult woman” as she says herself, is a conviction-less grubby narcissistic opportunist.


This will be a nightmare.
 
 

A bit like the beano, but with occasional tits.