Date: 23-05-17  Time: 02:21 AM

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Messages - tommyardin

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1
FZS600 Fazer / Re: What have you done to your FZS600 bike today
« on: 21 May 2017, 04:09:46 PM »
is the 400 seriously much better then the 600 - ive gone vertical dominators now but good info to know


Apparently the 400 Boxeye headlamp reflector and setup is much, much better than the 600 Boxeye.


My understanding is that both of the bulbs (2 X H7 twin filament bulbs ) on the 400 Boxeye are the same as the 600 foxeye, so both bulbs are H7 and the same so both beams are on by default on the 400 headlight set up, but again if my understanding is right (Please correct me if i am not) that they still fall short of the Foxeye head lamps because of the foxeyes larger reflector and better design. 

2
Fazer8 / FZ8 / Re: rear shock
« on: 20 May 2017, 11:43:08 PM »
I always replace rear shocks with Nitron units. Makes a huge difference but like any handling mods once you start you have to do everything.
Shock shows up forks, forks show up brakes, brakes show up tyres and so it goes until eventually the new package shows up the rider.
So you end up getting some training at superbike school or the like and going on track days.
The end result is just like any other addict, you end up spending all your money on it and all you can think about is your next fix, if yo don't eat so much this month you could buy that slipper clutch you've had your eye on.
My advice would be to replace the shock (with a nitron) then get some professional help (pole dancer maybe) before it takes over your life.
Don't become an ADRENALIN JUNKIE




I know what you mean Celtic.
I fitted a Nitron R1 to my 03 Reg FZS600 over last winter along with front fork cartridge emulators, I spent a lot of time researching and talking with a certain guy on here about the front end before deciding on a pattern for drilling out/ overcoming the damping effect of the damper rods. Then fitted Ohlins Linear Springs.
I played with the oil setting along with the viscosity (Fine tuning) really happy with the bikes suspension but fitted new Batlax boots and decided that I was really pleased with the front brakes but decided that I needed to do something about the rear.


But then thankfully came to my senses, why? I hardly ever touch the back brake anyway except when turning at very slow speeds/ slow manoeuvres. But your right it can become an obsession, and an obsession that takes some feeding, when I think about it I spent half of what the bike is worth upgrading the suspension with out the cost of new boots back and front.
To be honest the original setup was boingy on the back and vague and harsh on the front, but for normal riding it was passable I guess as long as you did not want to go scratching.

3
Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner / Re: How much brake fluid?
« on: 20 May 2017, 01:50:03 PM »
Ricky,
Buy the bigger one and you will have some left over to top up both front and rear reservoirs as the pads wear. If there is much to much you will have enough to replenish the whole system in a few years time.
About 7 or 8 quid a litre tops.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COMMA-Dot-4-Synthetic-Brake-And-Clutch-Fluid-1-Litre-BF41L-/191545844167?hash=item2c9905a1c7:g:buUAAOSw7aBVGCFd

4
General / Re: Keeping bike kit in garage.
« on: 20 May 2017, 09:54:44 AM »
One of the worst garages to store anything in is a garage with an corrugated asbestos roof,  those bad boys sweat and drip condensation so badly my Fazer ended up with mould spots all over it a few years ago, even thought it was covered by a cotton sheet (winter storage) The sheet was almost wet one day when I went in to check the bike.
My Father-in- Laws dark green Astra got white ring marks all over the bonnet, roof and trunk lid from the asbestos roof in his garage, his car was in there for about 4 months after he had a hip operation. He had the car professionally buffed but the marks did not completely come out, it was as if something had eaten into the gel coat.


5
General / Re: Biggest waste of money
« on: 20 May 2017, 09:31:32 AM »
PS> anyone want to buy a carbon fibre tax disc holder?

Put it back on your bike with a nicely shaped caption saying,
"Yes! this bike is Foccing Taxed and Insured"  :lol


I still have the blue anodised disk holder on the back of my 600, I have the words 'Fazer set to Stun' set inside it, a play on words from Startrek.

6
General / Re: Sick foccer
« on: 20 May 2017, 09:09:15 AM »
not for me :thumbdown


I'm with you on that.
He is just a foul  mouthed individual, he shows no respect for women at all, no matter where they come from. According to him all British women are chip eating ugly bitches and the Scandinavian audience that he is talking to are all angelic good looking women until they have about a bucket full of alcohol then they all turn into blow job giving cum sucking whores.
Now the only thing I found funny about it was that the women in the auditorium were all laughing at his humour, did they really not comprehend that he was talking about them, they guys were all laughing as well, the comedian was talking about their wives, girlfriends, sisters and possibly their mums.
I'm not a prude in anyway shape or form but this sort of humour is not funny, it degrades women (for some of us our life partners) and should insult men.


I wonder what VNA will have to say about this missive.  :lol

7
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 18 May 2017, 04:20:57 PM »
Quote
The likes of Lord Shaftesbury (Anthony Ashley Cooper) and Dr Bernardo were Christians and did amazing things with their wealth to help others because they were convinced of the truth that they read in the Scriptures.
 
That makes a rather large assumption.  It’s highly likely religion or no religion that they would have done what they did because of who they were not due whatever religion they followed.  Morals and altruism are absolutely in no way whatsoever exclusive to religion.  And there's plenty of  down right nasty religous nutters out there.


 
Quote
It also is/was the way this country was governed and shaped for many years, its apart of our routes and heritage. Again I'm not saying it was all good and that people sometimes got it wrong with decisions made, but overall this country was a better place to live for most people because of our Christian routes.



Indeed, just a few hundred years ago the churches executed individuals for blasphemy.  Atheists were routinely executed by the churches.  Then there are the crusades – the least said about that the better eh?  So yes our country is indeed founded on the evil deeds of religion.  It’s now 2017 and only now are some of the churches in the UK coming to grips with the fact that some people are – wait for it – gay! – up till now most churches have promoted discrimination against gay people.


Quote
Aged parents lived with their families and were looked after by their children, now days we put them in a home were people who often don't even have the same language look after them/keep them quiet, they are often lonely and sad and they live out their last few years in isolation.



Having just spend years looking out for and looking after my parents, I can tell you there often comes a time when there is no other option to look at care home options.  Particularly with dementia you will more than likely get to a point where it either simply not possible or frankly downright cruel to try and keep your parent or parents at home.  I find your views on care of the elderly ignorant and breathtakingly simplistic.



Quote
What happened to Brady in this post he seems to be slowly disappearing, from where I am now in the write a comment section of FOC-U I can not see who started this post but would like to thank them for doing so as it has certainly opened up a bit of discussion about life the world and everything in it, so cheers Author  :thumbup



I think perhaps what you have done is hijacked a thread in order to promote your own little pet subject ie that little voice in your head called God.



Don't you just love it when people debate with passion  :)

8
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 18 May 2017, 04:12:50 PM »
:lol


Ha ha ha! one of my favourite films, in fact one of the funniest films I have ever seen.
Blessed are the Cheese Makers, did he say blessed are the Greek.

OK ok! I am the Messiah now FUCK OFF. LOL!
Sooo funny.

9
Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner / Re: Have i focced my r6 shock ??
« on: 18 May 2017, 02:56:37 PM »
Never gone out that far but have you tried pushing in at same time as turning clockwise see if you have come off the thread. Might pick up thread again.?


I'm with Dusty on that screw has come right out of the thread, if it will not screw back in with a bit of pressure it could be that what-ever it screws into has dropped away from its location and can no longer be reached.
you already know the man to ask so no point in saying it again.
Good luck and I hope you manage to get it sorted, it's a right downer when something like that happens just at the final stages.   

10
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 18 May 2017, 11:58:30 AM »
My wife also rang up the local Jehovah Witnesses offices and asked them not to call anymore as we had many conversations with then over a few years, what seemed to happen was if a couple who came to the door did not make any headway with us after a few months they would stop coming and another couple would appear and we would start the whole process again.
Now I am not a Jehovah Witness, but, I do admired their commitment to their organisation, someone once said to me that they do what they do out of fear, apparently they believe that only a certain number of people will enter heaven when they die, and, the passport to entering is by getting as many converts to J/W as possible, but the trouble is they will never know if they have done enough until maybe it's to late.
I understand it is called a Salvation of works, trying to earn favour from God, the Bible say that it is a Gift of God, not something that is earned or merited in any way, but like any gift it has to be accepted. ???????


I did not really understand that principle and have been told it is like someone writing out a cheque or bank draft (10 Million pounds) filling in all the details and writing your name as the recipient at the top, the cheque is in your name the money is yours but you have to hold out your hand and take hold of it before it can be banked, I found this explanation very helpful.
The upshot of this is that we do not have the Jehovah Witnesses call anymore, in some ways I'm sorry about it as I quite enjoyed the chats, but it was very, very time consuming and not always at a convenient time. 


What happened to Brady in this post he seems to be slowly disappearing, from where I am now in the write a comment section of FOC-U I can not see who started this post but would like to thank them for doing so as it has certainly opened up a bit of discussion about life the world and everything in it, so cheers Author  :thumbup 

11
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 18 May 2017, 11:27:41 AM »
Me, just like Sharpie, open minded and interested in all sorts of history, and the history of the Bible is interesting. It has shaped and moulded many nations and some were so convinced of its truth that they lived their lives under it's authority. A life of selfless sacrifice serving others. Now it might not be your cup of tea, but many have benefited from their sacrifice.

The likes of Lord Shaftesbury (Anthony Ashley Cooper) and Dr Bernardo were Christians and did amazing things with their wealth to help others because they were convinced of the truth that they read in the Scriptures.

It also is/was the way this country was governed and shaped for many years, its apart of our roots and heritage. Again I'm not saying it was all good and that people sometimes got it wrong with decisions made, but overall this country was a better place to live for most people because of our Christian routes. Aged parents lived with their families and were looked after by their children, now days we put them in a home were people who often don't even have the same language look after them/keep them quiet, they are often lonely and sad and they live out their last few years in isolation. To be honest I'm hoping for better things.
Who knows I might even go and live with Darrsi and his family he seems to be going on for a long time as he is 750 years old already, what the chance Darrsi lol! :thumbup

12
FZS600 Fazer / Re: What have you done to your FZS600 bike today
« on: 18 May 2017, 10:22:16 AM »
only 12x8 (wife free zone) but big enough for bike bench chair tools etc , saving up for a sealey space saver lift next



Great looking shed Matt.
If the floor in your new shed is tongue and groove boards timber (T&G) place a piece of 3/4 inch ply under where the life will live, the casters on the lift may disappear  through the 8mm thick T&G boards and end up with your bike laying on its side after falling 2 or 3 foot from the lift.

13
FZS600 Fazer / Re: stuttering at low rpm's
« on: 18 May 2017, 10:09:46 AM »
It's a fuelling issue, too late now to go into detail will tomorrow.
I agree, looking forward to hear more about it :)
What to look for/replace/...?

Ok, based on your post I’m assuming a few things here so this may not be correct: -

1.
The cylinder giving trouble has the carb you rebuilt, or did you rebuild them all?
2.Plus you state everything runs fine at high rpm/big throttle positions, if it was the HT circuit it would usually be the opposite.
The part of the rev range you’re having issues with is just past  pilot circuit, this now points to several possible problems: -

1.Pilot/
Main jet damage/blockage
2.Needle height setting
3.Enricher circuit jammed/blocked.

Your leaking crab would have had nothing to do with shot rubbers, but rather worn metering valve/jet, stuck/damaged or wrongly set float height.  When you “rebuilt” the carb what did you do?


Your black plug is over fuelling, i.e. too richer mixture which can be any or all of the above.  If you rebuilt all the carbs and it’s not the one that was leaking, it’s still very possible you didn’t assemble one of them correctly,  there's crap in the pilot circuit or you missed something like jammed enricher plunger.


Personally based on what you’ve said and what I know at present I’d go for No 3 first check the plunger is not stuck out, then No 1 as being your problem, it could be something else.  Tell me more if there is any more?       


Looking at Bretty's and Gnasher last posts I am really glad I joined FOC-U, there is so much useful information, knowledge and experience in this forum, and I store it all away for future reference, hoping of course that I never need it.
It might sound silly but when I read stuff like those posts I copy and paste the information into a word document and save it into a 'Fazer Tips' folder on my computer.
Keep the useful info flowing guys. :thumbup

14
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 18 May 2017, 09:53:28 AM »
Why not just throw old Noah into the mix, who supposedly died aged 950.  :eek
If it wasn't so utterly ridiculous then it may actually be laughable.
But if it was written in a book then it must be true.  :rollin :rollin :rollin


Oh Darrsi!,
The hat of arrogance fits you so well and I feel the style also suits you.
I was, and am, talking about recorded history not just in a religious book (Which you seem to believe is a book of Fairy Stories) but also in secular history books and documents. Some of the records talk about how he was despised, these people were not his friends and some spoke harshly about him, why would they do that if he did not exist.
Noah I know very little about, you seem to know more about him than I do, I did not know he allegedly lived to 950 years of age, now that does seem unbelievable as most die from heart disease or cancer or some other equally vile cause in this modern world. (note I said does seem unbelievable)


We should all be willing to be more open minded and not jump to conclusions or desissions about things that don't sit comfortably with us, just because you choose not to believe something does not make it untrue.


I have met a couple of guys in my life time that utterly refused to believe their wife was being unfaithful to them, because it was uncomfortable and painful so it was easier to deny it, but I'm afraid denial does not change fact.


You know I still think the world is flat and if I ride my Fazer all day and night long I will fall off the edge, because I don't believe what someone once said. 
You would OK though Darrsi because you would probably not be able to get yours started, so you would not fall off the edge, but we would all certainly hear the backfiring.
 :finger   
 


Are you still talking about him? (yaaaawn)
People "documented" as living for over 900 years old does tend to stick in my mind, mainly because it's complete and utter fabricated bullshit, and not physically possible due to a mountainous list of reasons, which if you can't comprehend then that's not my problem.
You carry on and read your book fella, it's not affecting my daily life whatsoever. I'm only 750 years young, wait 'til i'm older though and i'll prove it was all nonsense.  :rollin

ps: the bike starts and runs just fine.  :)


Well I'm pleased your bike is running well now, ride safe because you don't want to end your 750 year reign of life just yet.

15
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 17 May 2017, 11:59:28 PM »
I was once told by a judge (yes I actually know one, and occasionally have a beer with him, well he drinks wine but you get my drift) and he told me that offenders do not go to prison to be punished but hopefully rehabilitated, having their liberty taken away for that period is the punishment.

16
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 17 May 2017, 11:52:13 PM »
Oh and I should point out again, that when I mention rehabilitation I'm not talking about full blown psychopaths - like Brady.


 People identified as and diagnosed as psychopaths are not suitable for rehabilitation.  If the diagnosis is correct, then it is not possible to rehabilitate them in any shape or form.  A psychopath with serious criminal habits will always reoffend.


Can't argue with that.

17
Introduction / Re: Hello! New to Fazers not to bikes
« on: 17 May 2017, 11:11:03 PM »
welcome


18
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 17 May 2017, 11:00:22 PM »
Hey like I say, you can send em to hell and they'll come out harder, even more fucked up, detached from society and guranteed to cause mayhem and re-offend.


Or you can strike a  balance between punishment and investing in rehabilitation and release people ready to become part of society and unlikely to reoffend. 


 But like I say, macho, testosterone fuelled brain dead bull shit is the vote winner, so our prisons are a little light on the rehabilitation projects.


 :)
They are in the prison costing us a shed full of money it would cost next to nothing more to have a rehab programme in place and if it only stopped 10% from re-offending it would be worth it.
Sometimes showing someone a little kindness and interest produces results for the better, not always I'm sure, but sometimes it will.

19
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 17 May 2017, 10:55:08 PM »
Why not just throw old Noah into the mix, who supposedly died aged 950.  :eek
If it wasn't so utterly ridiculous then it may actually be laughable.
But if it was written in a book then it must be true.  :rollin :rollin :rollin


Oh Darrsi!,
The hat of arrogance fits you so well and I feel the style also suits you.
I was, and am, talking about recorded history not just in a religious book (Which you seem to believe is a book of Fairy Stories) but also in secular history books and documents. Some of the records talk about how he was despised, these people were not his friends and some spoke harshly about him, why would they do that if he did not exist.
Noah I know very little about, you seem to know more about him than I do, I did not know he allegedly lived to 950 years of age, now that does seem unbelievable as most die from heart disease or cancer or some other equally vile cause in this modern world. (note I said does seem unbelievable)


We should all be willing to be more open minded and not jump to conclusions or desissions about things that don't sit comfortably with us, just because you choose not to believe something does not make it untrue.


I have met a couple of guys in my life time that utterly refused to believe their wife was being unfaithful to them, because it was uncomfortable and painful so it was easier to deny it, but I'm afraid denial does not change fact.


You know I still think the world is flat and if I ride my Fazer all day and night long I will fall off the edge, because I don't believe what someone once said. 
You would OK though Darrsi because you would probably not be able to get yours started, so you would not fall off the edge, but we would all certainly hear the backfiring.
 :finger   
 

20
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 17 May 2017, 08:49:56 AM »
  At the end of the day Brady was a psychopath.


Quote
I'm with others who think that the visit to the Moors a few years back was about Power.


Of course it was.  Psychopath’s need to be in control, they also need attention.  Even his will is an manipulative attention seeking document.


The public are his audience, and he has played to them.


As for the death penalty, and “beyond reasonable doubt” of which every guilty sentence is beyond reasonable doubt.  Though note that our law allows for doubt in that very statement of “beyond reasonable doubt”.  So what of the Birmingham six and the Guildford four?  Convictions on the back of corrupt policing and a dodgy legal system.  They would all be dead if some of you here had your way. And indeed when you think back to the convictions of those innocent men, well there was no doubt the public was baying for blood - big time.  An eye for an eye indeed.


I personally see nothing wrong with VNA's post it seems well thought out and reasoned, just because someone thinks different to the way others do it does not make the opinion invalid.
As commented, beyond reasonable doubt is allowed in British law, and who can say with absolute 100% certainty anything, there will always be doubt because we all see things through our own personal experiences or our own coloured spectacles.


The fact that Brady took the police to the Moors and disclosed where some of the bodies were buried has moved it beyond reasonable doubt as to his guilt.
I personally think that his life should have been forfeit, but had that happened a lot of the murdered children would never have received a decent burial and parents not given the opportunity to lay their child to rest.


The people who actually had to make these sort of decisions as to who would live and who would die have to live with the outcome of their decisions, and people are fickle and change their mind at the drop of a hat.


For Example:
The Bible story of Jesus as he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey people were calling out Hosanna, a verbal expression of Glory, adoration and joy, they were also laying palm branches in His path, palm branches meant well-being and victory, these people saw Jesus as someone who would save them from the domination of the Roman Empire. 
These very same people that cried Hosanna and laid palm branches in His path were the very same ones who a few days later cried out crucify him.
Whatever you do and whatever decisions you make, someone or some group will always say you made the wrong decision, it's human nature. People are and always will be fickle, their minds are changed by the slightest gust or wind and I number myself amongst them.   


What the feck are you chatting about now???
It was bad enough getting political, now you're bringing fairy stories into the equation?  :rolleyes


See Darrsi's comment is exactly what I was saying about people all having an opinion and believing that opinion to be the right one.
I am not talking about religion, I am talking about History, events that have been recorded in numerous books, events that tie up with other History books of that time and that fit in and line up with Roman records and Roman Emporeres that were in power at that time and and Jewish records, who most do not believe that this Jesus was who he claimed to be in any way, but they did not deny his existence because they recorded him in there writings.
History has recorded that the story of Jesus to be is a true story, now whether he was who He claimed to be or just a deluded individual you make your own mind up, but history is history and for someone to say off the top of their head this or that is just a fairy story is absolutely unbelievable. It would be the same as me saying Christopher Columbus never existed or Ceaser was a figment of someone's imagination. You can not say theses are Fairy Stories cos you were not there.
I know this has now moved this post to a completely different place and my apologies about that, but to completely write something off as a fairy story just because they have made a dicission for themself or choose not to believe it is ridiculous because if it is true it is true and your choice will make not one jot or tittle of difference to the truth. Passionately believing something that is not true makes a person gullible, passionately disbelieving something that is true makes a person arrogant.

21
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 16 May 2017, 11:54:32 PM »
  At the end of the day Brady was a psychopath.


Quote
I'm with others who think that the visit to the Moors a few years back was about Power.


Of course it was.  Psychopath’s need to be in control, they also need attention.  Even his will is an manipulative attention seeking document.


The public are his audience, and he has played to them.


As for the death penalty, and “beyond reasonable doubt” of which every guilty sentence is beyond reasonable doubt.  Though note that our law allows for doubt in that very statement of “beyond reasonable doubt”.  So what of the Birmingham six and the Guildford four?  Convictions on the back of corrupt policing and a dodgy legal system.  They would all be dead if some of you here had your way. And indeed when you think back to the convictions of those innocent men, well there was no doubt the public was baying for blood - big time.  An eye for an eye indeed.


I personally see nothing wrong with VNA's post it seems well thought out and reasoned, just because someone thinks different to the way others do it does not make the opinion invalid.
As commented, beyond reasonable doubt is allowed in British law, and who can say with absolute 100% certainty anything, there will always be doubt because we all see things through our own personal experiences or our own coloured spectacles.


The fact that Brady took the police to the Moors and disclosed where some of the bodies were buried has moved it beyond reasonable doubt as to his guilt.
I personally think that his life should have been forfeit, but had that happened a lot of the murdered children would never have received a decent burial and parents not given the opportunity to lay their child to rest.


The people who actually had to make these sort of decisions as to who would live and who would die have to live with the outcome of their decisions, and people are fickle and change their mind at the drop of a hat.


For Example:
The Bible story of Jesus as he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey people were calling out Hosanna, a verbal expression of Glory, adoration and joy, they were also laying palm branches in His path, palm branches meant well-being and victory, these people saw Jesus as someone who would save them from the domination of the Roman Empire. 
These very same people that cried Hosanna and laid palm branches in His path were the very same ones who a few days later cried out crucify him.
Whatever you do and whatever decisions you make, someone or some group will always say you made the wrong decision, it's human nature. People are and always will be fickle, their minds are changed by the slightest gust or wind and I number myself amongst them.     

22
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 16 May 2017, 12:09:21 AM »
I'm with you on that score Robbie.  There are principles that should be adhered to, an eye for an eye and let the penalty fit the crime both come to mind.
These principles are not about revenge as some seem to think, but that the penalty is equal to the crime, if you take someone life like that you should forfeit your own.
Both of the Moors Murders admitted guilt and tried to help the police find some of the bodies, so there was no doubt as to their guilt.


As you say it is easy to stand back and spout forth about the right and wrong way to respond, but I have never had one of my children cruelly snatched away from me.   

23
Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner / Re: Paint colour / code ?
« on: 15 May 2017, 11:56:52 PM »
Hi alll could someone please tell me what the paint code / colour of my bike is please, cheers Arnie.





Its Blue

24
Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner / Re: frame bung / cap
« on: 15 May 2017, 11:45:50 PM »
yep email me your address to devilsyam@gmail.com and ill send you one


Are they the same rubber Swing Arm bungs as fitted to the FZS600?


if so I have about 8 or 9 of them I purchased on eBay for a few quid (10 in a bag) they are the right size but just a little softer rubber so I put 4 tiny dabs of super glue on the one I fitted (12 o/clock, 3, 6 and 9) and pushed it home, been there a couple of years now no probs. Rubber blanking grommets.

25
General / Re: Good News!! Ian Brady is dead!!
« on: 15 May 2017, 11:34:04 PM »
It's a terrible thing to have done to anyone let alone little children.
I saw a television prog a number of years ago now just after the time Myra Hindley passed away (2002) and they interviewed two sets of parents of  children that the moors murderers had killed.
One family had come to terms with the death of their child and had in their hearts decided to forgive the killers and try to move on, they had other children and had a happy family life together, but they said that they will always miss their child that was taken from them but they did not want that loss to dominate the whole of their lives and the lives of their other children.
The other family/couple had divorced but came back together for the TV programme but they were filled with hate (Understandable in many ways) they despised each other and apportioned blame on one and other, saying things like you should have kept more of a check on him and if you had this would never have happened. Their lives had been dominated with the thoughts of revenge and hatred towards the Moors Killers, in fact they were consumed with hate.
I honestly believe those parents were more prisoners that the Moors Killers.
The parents who had forgiven and tried to let go and move on were a happy family with a sad history they had to try to come to terms with, as much as you ever could. They were free unlike the other couple.
I know it's OK and easy for me to write this from a distance, but just look at the two end products, what do you think is the best.
tommyardin     

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