Date: 28-03-24  Time: 14:56 pm

Author Topic: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.  (Read 1857 times)

VNA - BMW Wank

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 OK, so VNA wants to get hold of a new or lightly used BMW R1250R.


But here's the thing – the test bike I rode last year had a quick shifter.  I asked the dealer if it could be disabled and he said no and advised me just to use the clutch if I was wary of the quick shifter.  They didn't seem to understand me when I tried to explain that I only ever use the clutch between 1st and 2nd going up the box.


Anyway, on the test ride I found the quick shifter a little crude, but I eventually found that if you just rolled off the throttle a tiny tad it was as smooth as silk – so really, I’m thinking what is the point.


So my question is, are the gearboxes on the BMW boxers as sweet as any Japanese bike, and are they happy going up the box at full tilt without using the clutch?
 
 

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #1 on: 08 January 2020, 07:26:50 pm »
I’ve never really got on with quickshifters and always find myself automatically rolling off a bit when doing clutchless upshifts, even when they’re fitted.
My Beemer however, doesn’t have one but I can still do upshifts smoother than on my wife’s VFR with a QS.


This maybe just because I ride mine more often and am therefore more ‘in tune’ with it. :)
The Beemer box is maybe a little more agricultural than most Jap boxes but it’s not bad.



VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #2 on: 08 January 2020, 07:45:44 pm »
 I take it if you were gonna buy a new  boxer Freck then you wouldn’t bother selecting the 400 quid quick-shifter.


I kinda think, after trying a couple of bikes with quick shifters, well it kinda takes away from the skill of riding the bike.  Also the BMW has an auto blipper, I tried it, braking approaching a corner with the throttle closed I press the gear lever down, and yeah it changed down but it was far from smooth.  I tried it a second time, and well frankly that was it, it just felt like eventually it damage the gearbox.


Oh embarrassing moment in the show room.  I asked them about the led that kept blinking at me all the time.  The sales person didn’t know, so asked one of the younger more techie knowledgeable staff, he replied – ‘Oh that’s it telling you to change up gear’.  Ooops.
 

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #3 on: 08 January 2020, 08:57:37 pm »

I kinda think, after trying a couple of bikes with quick shifters, well it kinda takes away from the skill of riding the bike.

I think that's true of most of the rider aids fitted to bikes these days and while those of us without will hark on about not needing them and it not being a 'real' riding experience I suppose the truth of it is they make the job of riding a lot easier which in turn leaves more of your attention to be focused on the road ie safer

Im sure it would have been the same with cars when they introduced things like power steering and syncromesh gearboxes. I'm too young to have driven cars without them but I'm positive that if I tried to then more of my focus would be on trying to get a gear than it would be on the road

With the beemer, as with most things I'm sure you'd get used to it in no time and after a year of ownership you'd probably never have a bike without one again haha

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #4 on: 09 January 2020, 12:06:59 pm »

I have a R1200RS SE and the quick shifter is great on these BMW machines, both up and down the box, but sometimes putting it into first gear using the clutch it is rather clunky.




VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #5 on: 09 January 2020, 06:57:04 pm »
Quote
I think that's true of most of the rider aids fitted to bikes these days and while those of us without will hark on about not needing them and it not being a 'real' riding experience I suppose the truth of it is they make the job of riding a lot easier which in turn leaves more of your attention to be focused on the road ie safer
 
Im sure it would have been the same with cars when they introduced things like power steering and syncromesh gearboxes. I'm too young to have driven cars without them but I'm positive that if I tried to then more of my focus would be on trying to get a gear than it would be on the road
 
With the beemer, as with most things I'm sure you'd get used to it in no time and after a year of ownership you'd probably never have a bike without one again haha
 
I think some modern aids are great – like ABS – you just can’t argue with the value of ABS on the road. 



The other thing is, that with BMW these things are options – a lot of them are available purely to get more cash out of you.  I mean take cruise control – something I definitely want.  It’s standard on a lot of bikes now – and frankly if you have (as a manufactuerer) fitted the bike with a fly by wire throttle then added cruise control need not cost much at all – but BMW will take 405 quid off you for the pleasure. :\


I’ll probably take the Dynamic ESA (electronic suspension).  The test bike had it and the suspension was amazing – it was like wafting along on a flying carpet.  I thought this thing will tie itself in knots as soon as I abuse it through some twisties – but nope it tracked perfectly and devoured corners with ease.  I’d like to try one without the ESA but finding one would be difficult – and I suspect that perfect ride might have had a good bit to do with the EAS – so I’ll just tick that box. That's 765 quid gone.


There is Rider Mode Pro..... – I’ll skip – I almost fell asleep reading the short description.  I ain’t gonna foc around tweeking throttle response and adjusting the traction control etc etc – I just want an on off switch.  Jump on, fire it up and go. 



Talking of on/off switches – I’ll not be entertaining the keyless ignition at 280 quid – I’d probably pay extra not to have that if necessary!


Online reviews and bike mags rave about quick shifters and auto blippers, these are promoted as must have electronics.  A few folks that have bikes with them fitted also told me how wonderful they are, but I was totally underwhelmed, and found myself compensating for their crude action.


But here’s a thought Dude.  I was reading about the latest R1 and how easy it is to ride.  Much much easier to ride than the original R1 apparently :eek .  Over 200bhp :eek   Is there a risk that some, or much of this stuff, will allow people to ride way beyond their capability, and have them going far faster than they would other wise go in turn putting them and others at risk.  Will electronics turn ordinary road riders into riding gods – perhaps riding gods awaiting a rude awakening. :(   
 

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #6 on: 09 January 2020, 07:52:49 pm »
Quote
I think that's true of most of the rider aids fitted to bikes these days and while those of us without will hark on about not needing them and it not being a 'real' riding experience I suppose the truth of it is they make the job of riding a lot easier which in turn leaves more of your attention to be focused on the road ie safer
 
Im sure it would have been the same with cars when they introduced things like power steering and syncromesh gearboxes. I'm too young to have driven cars without them but I'm positive that if I tried to then more of my focus would be on trying to get a gear than it would be on the road
 
With the beemer, as with most things I'm sure you'd get used to it in no time and after a year of ownership you'd probably never have a bike without one again haha
 

But here’s a thought Dude.  I was reading about the latest R1 and how easy it is to ride.  Much much easier to ride than the original R1 apparently :eek .  Over 200bhp :eek   Is there a risk that some, or much of this stuff, will allow people to ride way beyond their capability, and have them going far faster than they would other wise go in turn putting them and others at risk.  Will electronics turn ordinary road riders into riding gods – perhaps riding gods awaiting a rude awakening. :(

Oh without a doubt but then to be honest I think most riders often ride outside their capabilities when they are out having a hoon. Doesnt matter if your on a 70bhp 650cc or a 210bhp 1000cc, going into a corner way too quick usually results in being hurt. That's where I think these rider aids are brilliant.... when you fuck up.
And I think if someone is riding like an idiot then being on a 200bhp bike that has abs, anti wheelie, adaptive traction control etc will still be safer than a 100bhp bike with nothing

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #7 on: 09 January 2020, 08:03:59 pm »
ABS and traction control allow inexperienced riders to get beyond their limits very quickly as they believe the rider aids will keep them out of trouble. In reality it will only keep them out of trouble some of the time.

Traction control on bikes should be banned. It helps people corner far too fast for 99.9999999999999999999999% of the time as they just pile on the power much earlier than you would if you were worried about the back sliding out meaning your usually going too fast for the road you can see and stop in.
ABS, the jury is out on for me still. In 5 years of owning a bike with it fitted, i never had it cut in despite hard braking and in the car, its only at low speed like when pulling out of a junction in slippery conditions when I have had to brake sharply. In reality, not having it wouldnt have made much difference to these situations. The difference? I have been riding and driving for years, gradually increasing the power and capability of my bikes/cars so learn the limits of the vehicles but avoiding driving like Ms Daisy.
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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #8 on: 10 January 2020, 08:12:27 am »
The best thing about the quick shifter on My BMW K1300S (with Scorpion end can) is the Noise you get when accelerating flat out and shifting up .You cant get the same effect doing clutch less changes .
52,000 miles with no problem from the up only quick shifter.
The gearbox is a bit clunky but ok .

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #9 on: 10 January 2020, 08:50:19 am »
Ill continue to do without these very expensive additions until forced to do otherwise. In almost five decades in engineering, I have doubts regarding the reliability of these systems, and the costs of repair when failure occurs. It'd hardly be within the talents or financial reaches of most of us home mechanics to repair and service these systems as they age. Good luck to those that have them. Driving up the cost of motorcycling will drive down the number of riders

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #10 on: 10 January 2020, 06:51:52 pm »
 
Quote
And I think if someone is riding like an idiot then being on a 200bhp bike that has abs, anti wheelie, adaptive traction control etc will still be safer than a 100bhp bike with nothing

I would disagree.  They’ll be going everywhere much much faster, so when the inevitable happens..............
 
One reason I was asking about the blinking light on the boxer was I wondering if it was indicating some sort of assistance was kicking in – anti-wheelie, traction control.


Which VNA would like to think that these bikes let you know when they are ‘assisting’ or helping save your ass, as VNA would take it as a warning and hopefully VNA would ease up a bit.


Quote
Traction control on bikes should be banned. It helps people corner far too fast for 99.9999999999999999999999% of the time as they just pile on the power much earlier than you would if you were worried about the back sliding out meaning your usually going too fast for the road you can see and stop in.
ABS, the jury is out on for me still. In 5 years of owning a bike with it fitted, i never had it cut in despite hard braking and in the car, its only at low speed like when pulling out of a junction in slippery conditions when I have had to brake sharply.
I wouldn’t go as far as banned, but I agree with BBROWN1664 that they pose a potential real danger.  I disagree on ABS – it’s helped me out a good few times over the years in the car.  Usually at some point during the summer on one of my favourite roads I’ll lock the front wheel up on the old thou approaching a corner on a downhill section before a tight bend – it gives me a fright and it’s telling me to slow down as I’m probably riding like an idiot again. 
 

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #11 on: 10 January 2020, 07:01:14 pm »
 
Quote
Ill continue to do without these very expensive additions until forced to do otherwise. In almost five decades in engineering, I have doubts regarding the reliability of these systems, and the costs of repair when failure occurs. It'd hardly be within the talents or financial reaches of most of us home mechanics to repair and service these systems as they age. Good luck to those that have them. Driving up the cost of motorcycling will drive down the number of riders

I suspect that basically precludes you from buying any modern bike. :eek   They are loaded with electronic and microprocessor technology.  Pretty much everything is fly by wire now.  I do like the fact my old thou has a push pull cable to a bank of carbs – it can go wrong but it’s pretty predictable in terms of failure.  But yeah if I refuse such technology then I don’t have the option of a new bike.  Further I think in general everything is more reliable than it’s ever been.


On the other hand, I know that in industry we often look to aerospace for inspiration in matters of safety.  I mean one of the leaders in safety across the board has been Boeing.  So who would have ever thought they could have got it so wrong with the 737 800 max.  In fact so wrong almost a year later they haven’t got it fixed.  That’s the real worry. :eek
 

agricola

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #12 on: 10 January 2020, 08:22:01 pm »
Quote
Ill continue to do without these very expensive additions until forced to do otherwise. In almost five decades in engineering, I have doubts regarding the reliability of these systems, and the costs of repair when failure occurs. It'd hardly be within the talents or financial reaches of most of us home mechanics to repair and service these systems as they age. Good luck to those that have them. Driving up the cost of motorcycling will drive down the number of riders

I suspect that basically precludes you from buying any modern bike. :eek


Yes, it probably will. My current FZ6 is likely my last ever bike at my age, injection and ABS but nothing other than that. Todays similar sized bikes dont have the same power (MT07/CBR650 etc)


  They are loaded with electronic and microprocessor technology.  Pretty much everything is fly by wire now.  I do like the fact my old thou has a push pull cable to a bank of carbs – it can go wrong but it’s pretty predictable in terms of failure.  But yeah if I refuse such technology then I don’t have the option of a new bike.  Further I think in general everything is more reliable than it’s ever been.


Probably more reliable in the short term, but 6 years down the line will the gadgets still be 100% reliable and performing as the day the machine was new? And if not, who ya gonna take it too for correction since that task is likely to be well beyond the talents of the average bike rider? 


On the other hand, I know that in industry we often look to aerospace for inspiration in matters of safety.  I mean one of the leaders in safety across the board has been Boeing.  So who would have ever thought they could have got it so wrong with the 737 800 max.  In fact so wrong almost a year later they haven’t got it fixed.  That’s the real worry. :eek


I would hazard a guess that one of the root causes is cost cutting. Aerospace is competitive just like all other industries in the global capitalist market place. They all look to cutting costs, any costs, as a means of increasing market share/competitiveness/maintaining profit return on capital invested



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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #13 on: 10 January 2020, 08:59:32 pm »
 
Quote
Probably more reliable in the short term, but 6 years down the line will the gadgets still be 100% reliable and performing as the day the machine was new?
Probably.  This kinda reminds me of the first digital camera I bought.  It was a Canon 5D back in 2005, and it cost me 1900 quid.  Up until that point I had used film, slide, colour print and b&w developed and printed in my own darkroom.  Loads of folks told me that my camera would be obsolete in a couple of years time – of no use at all – fit only for the bin.  Well it was 2009 before the replacement model came out, which I also purchased and is still working flawlessly.  The 2005 model had one major repair, oh and the battery grip went in the bin.  The camera has seen a lot of use, it’s looks pretty shabby, indeed the grip got binned cos it took one knock to many – oh there’s a few marks on the sensor that cannot be removed.  But it still works, it’s still a good camera and I still use it now and again.  Impressive reliability.



Quote
I would hazard a guess that one of the root causes is cost cutting.
Yeah I agree.  But its gotta be more than that.  It’s a total quality control, engineering and cultural failure – and it is costing Boeing dear.  I think the most interesting factor is cultural – sadly these plane crashes would not have come as a complete surprise to all – how come those people  couldn’t get their message across.  Human behaviour is fascinating – and depressing.
 

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #14 on: 11 January 2020, 01:47:09 pm »

 
Quote
Probably more reliable in the short term, but 6 years down the line will the gadgets still be 100% reliable and performing as the day the machine was new?

Its called planned obsolescence. How would manufacturers survive without it?
Take dishwashers as an example, you buy one and it works for years and years. No need to replace it ever really but once the manufacturers build a few million, what are they going to do next?Their sales stream will dry up unless they get things to die just outside of warranty.

Take a look around your local car breakers yard. 30 years ago, almost every car in the yard would have either been rusty or crashed causing it to be sent for scrap. These days the yards are half full of undamaged, good looking cars that are only there because something like the ECU failed or the driver lost their only key and to fix it would cost more than buying another car.
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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #15 on: 11 January 2020, 03:18:21 pm »
 
Quote
Take a look around your local car breakers yard. 30 years ago, almost every car in the yard would have either been rusty or crashed causing it to be sent for scrap. These days the yards are half full of undamaged, good looking cars that are only there because something like the ECU failed or the driver lost their only key and to fix it would cost more than buying another car.


 
Yeah 30 years ago a lot of the cars in the scrap yard were ten years old or less.  Today most of the cars on the road are over ten years old.  And where is the planned obsolescence in my trusty old Fazer thou – now 16 years old (touch wood – fingers crossed etc)? 



If you are running an old car and the ECU fails – well check e-bay – you’ll probably find a working one for 20 quid or so. 



In fact the car industry has a problem, it’s become too reliable – it’s recognised as one of the reasons for falling sales. 



I think goods are designed for the market – manufactures complete to make what we want, and yeah we want it as cheap as possible.


Over 30 years ago a washing machine was a major purchase, and if it broke down you paid to have it fixed.  Now you buy one, and if it fails two years later you toss it out and buy another.


I’ve been saying this for years, and considering we have a climate emergency it's all the more relavent, the EU should have set minimum standards years ago.  Minimum guarantees on white goods should be 3 years for example – with a move to push it to 5 and further.  We have a throw away society and it’s a threat to our future. 

 

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Re: Any experience of BMW boxers, and in particular their gearbox.
« Reply #16 on: 11 January 2020, 07:20:21 pm »
Quote
Probably more reliable in the short term, but 6 years down the line will the gadgets still be 100% reliable and performing as the day the machine was new?
Probably.  This kinda reminds me of the first digital camera I bought.  It was a Canon 5D back in 2005, and it cost me 1900 quid.  Up until that point I had used film, slide, colour print and b&w developed and printed in my own darkroom.  Loads of folks told me that my camera would be obsolete in a couple of years time – of no use at all – fit only for the bin.  Well it was 2009 before the replacement model came out, which I also purchased and is still working flawlessly.  The 2005 model had one major repair, oh and the battery grip went in the bin.  The camera has seen a lot of use, it’s looks pretty shabby, indeed the grip got binned cos it took one knock to many – oh there’s a few marks on the sensor that cannot be removed.  But it still works, it’s still a good camera and I still use it now and again.  Impressive reliability.


You had better luck with them than I. Both my digital cameras were dead after 3 years. Hardly a direct comparison is it though. A £159 camera, a £15k motorcycle on British roads
Quote
I would hazard a guess that one of the root causes is cost cutting.

Yeah I agree.  But its gotta be more than that.  It’s a total quality control, engineering and cultural failure – and it is costing Boeing dear.  I think the most interesting factor is cultural – sadly these plane crashes would not have come as a complete surprise to all – how come those people  couldn’t get their message across.  Human behaviour is fascinating – and depressing.


Yes, according to one report regarding the release of internal company messages, the company seriously curtailed the testing programme, citing cost as the major factor