Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => Fazer 1000/FZ1 corner => Topic started by: ogri48 on 29 December 2018, 06:30:13 pm
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well whipped the carbs out of the thou today. when I say "whipped" errr..
aint the easiest set of carbs ive got out. Disconnecting that back throttle cable is an utter bitch lol. bt there out, cleaned up, and after tea I have permission from my little gruppenfuhrer to use the kitchen table and do the carb mods in the warm... :) :) JIS scewdrivers rock when getting off float bowls btw..
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Nice n clean
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Every bloke who owns a Japanese Motor Cycle or car should have a set of JIS drivers, with them cream cheese cross head screws become a thing of the past.
Phillips and JIS are different the angle and reach of the tip are different, Phillips drivers stand a very good chance of wrecking Jap cross heads.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Release-JIS-Screwdriver-set-4-pc-for-Japanese-Industrial-Standard-screws/182946883063?epid=19012026175&hash=item2a987be5f7:g:1BEAAOSw4PxaJoQp:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true&autorefresh=true (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Release-JIS-Screwdriver-set-4-pc-for-Japanese-Industrial-Standard-screws/182946883063?epid=19012026175&hash=item2a987be5f7:g:1BEAAOSw4PxaJoQp:rk:3:pf:1&frcectupt=true&autorefresh=true)
These are worth having as well for your impact driver.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VESSEL-IMPACT-DRIVER-BIT-SET-NO2500-PH2-3-4-SLOTTED10x36mm-BS-2500-JIS-JAPAN/183562960076?epid=1103551457&hash=item2abd347ccc:g:rBEAAOSwikJb8801:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VESSEL-IMPACT-DRIVER-BIT-SET-NO2500-PH2-3-4-SLOTTED10x36mm-BS-2500-JIS-JAPAN/183562960076?epid=1103551457&hash=item2abd347ccc:g:rBEAAOSwikJb8801:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true)
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+1 for what Tommy said :thumbup .
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couldn't agree more. Gonna treat myself to some JIS long reach and stubbies too. Anyhoo job done. Very time consuming but if I ever have to do it again it should take half as long. mike was right about changing the o rings in the intake filters, they were shot even though they hadnt been leaking. I used every bit of advice given...thank you guys. mikes tip about checking the float heights at 12.5 mm standard was double handy in particular. nice clean ivanised carbs going back in in the morning. hopefully ive done everything right (still not sure ive gone through enough with the bypass holes, very hard to guage a mil drop lol), proof will be in the pudding tomorrow ;) ;)
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forgot to say, the spacers in my carbs were 3mm not 2.5, so the e clip had to be moved up a notch from the 3rd one down as fitted in the kit. pats site had it all covered so no problem.
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Great job ogri, well done. Hope all goes well tomorrow. :thumbup .
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cheers robbo. it'll be satisfying right enough if its all tickety boo lol :) ;)
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I was well pleased after Mike had worked his magic on mine. You'll have the extra satisfaction of knowing it's all your own work. Well done fellah.
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Hi Paul,
It will be obvious if you've opened up the bypass holes sufficiently. You will see a clean hole which is larger than its neighbour. If the bit hasn't gone through all the way, you'll sort of have a smeared opening where the bit has not completed the cut. To check, take the drill bit in your fingers and offer it to the hole. It will slide in and out a few mil which will again be obvious to tell. :)
Remove/fit the throttle cables with the carbs out to the side of the engine, not while they're in place in the stubs. You can balance the bank of carbs on your left knee while guiding the cables in to place. Takes me about a minute to do both using that method.
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cheers mike ;)
Didn't take too long to get it all back together, toughest bit was getting the stubs back into the inlets. Fired her up and no leaks etc so took a steady ride down to Chepstow. muddy/wet twisty small mountain road, small throttle openings etc. got to "coffe one", had a big ol latte, phoned my sister then called dave (dynspud) whos thinking of ivanising his too.
"Whats it like?"
"Its ok dave..dunno if its worth the 8 hours its took me to do it all, but yeah, its ok...only had a short ride so far, engine was cold for a third of it..it pulls ok but then it pulled ok before.."
Another coffee, then I thought "well, probably ought to head down the wye valley, open it up, try it out properly.."
Thumbed the starter and woah, on the button! it always turns over at least once or twice when its cold before firing, but not no more.
Headed down the wye, roads are dry, 016s are gripping well, here we go then..
Five minutes later I was sold. Ten minutes later I was having more fun on a motorbike in December than you would think was humanly possible. And two hours later I had to make myself head home...
It was fast before, and it was good before. But now, its definitely faster, and its definitely better. God I love this bike...
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Told ya :lol
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lol. im meeting dynspud at Chepstow tomorrow, we'll swap bikes on the usk road and i'll get a second opinion ;)
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Hi Paul,
It will be obvious if you've opened up the bypass holes sufficiently. You will see a clean hole which is larger than its neighbour. If the bit hasn't gone through all the way, you'll sort of have a smeared opening where the bit has not completed the cut. To check, take the drill bit in your fingers and offer it to the hole. It will slide in and out a few mil which will again be obvious to tell. :)
Remove/fit the throttle cables with the carbs out to the side of the engine, not while they're in place in the stubs. You can balance the bank of carbs on your left knee while guiding the cables in to place. Takes me about a minute to do both using that method.
Mike, is it possible to go too far and knack the carbs? I ran the drill bit around for a good minute or so but didn't push forward too much just let the drill do the work.
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When you say you ran the bit around for a minute or so, is that total drilling time per hole or do you mean you continued to turn for that length of time after you think you completed the cut?
You were right to apply light pressure and drill carefully as it's a fine bit and fragile if forced. Typically it takes about a minute to do each hole. I often used to stop after about 40 secs or so just to check visually and clear any swarf.
It is usually very easy to feel when the bit is approaching breakthrough because it gets tighter to turn in the hole. Incidentally, that's when it is at greatest risk of snapping, so go easy at that point if you're reading this and planning to follow Paul's lead. :)
The difference between a completed cut and a partial one is very clear to the eye. If it doesn't look like a proper hole, it ain't!
You can't do any damage by continuing to turn after making the full cut. The bit drops down into the space below the hole by about 1mm before it hits the bottom of the casting. A few more turns there isn't going to do any harm. Just be careful not to allow the bit to wobble and over-enlarge the hole you've cut.
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thanks mike. im going to take the carbs off again and check in a coupla weeks. When looking down the throats I could barely see the holes, even with glasses and good light. my old eyes aint all that now im older. ive ordered one of those LED lit magnifying glasses off ebay (along with a long reach 3mm t bar), and I figure now ive done it once getting the carbs on and off isn't such a big deal. Im also making up a template for the floats..i used a ruler with 14mm markd off but struggled to get a good line of sight in practice, so just want to recheck that too. im about 95% certain its ok, but I wanna be 100... :lol :lol
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thanks mike. im going to take the carbs off again and check in a coupla weeks. When looking down the throats I could barely see the holes, even with glasses and good light. my old eyes aint all that now im older. ive ordered one of those LED lit magnifying glasses off ebay (along with a long reach 3mm t bar), and I figure now ive done it once getting the carbs on and off isn't such a big deal. Im also making up a template for the floats..i used a ruler with 14mm markd off but struggled to get a good line of sight in practice, so just want to recheck that too. im about 95% certain its ok, but I wanna be 100... :lol :lol
get a thin bit of wire like a paper clip and poke it down the hole to the bottom then mark or bend it when it enters the hole. put the drill back down as far as it goes and mark where it enters the hole. you can now compare the lengths to make sure you got to the bottom.
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thanks mate. me and dave swapped bikes today...they used to run identically but the ivanised thou is definitely different.. :)
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thanks mike. im going to take the carbs off again and check in a coupla weeks. When looking down the throats I could barely see the holes, even with glasses and good light. my old eyes aint all that now im older. ive ordered one of those LED lit magnifying glasses off ebay (along with a long reach 3mm t bar), and I figure now ive done it once getting the carbs on and off isn't such a big deal. Im also making up a template for the floats..i used a ruler with 14mm markd off but struggled to get a good line of sight in practice, so just want to recheck that too. im about 95% certain its ok, but I wanna be 100... :lol :lol
If you have a digital vernier gauge, use the depth end of that as a guide. I use as long socket head drive extension with a 3mm hex bit for the intake stub clamps.
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get a thin bit of wire like a paper clip and poke it down the hole to the bottom then mark or bend it when it enters the hole. put the drill back down as far as it goes and mark where it enters the hole. you can now compare the lengths to make sure you got to the bottom.
Unnecessary, really. :)
The thickness of the metal you're drilling through is less than 1mm and the void beneath is not much larger. You're either through or you're not. It is quite obvious when the hole is enlarged.
I would advise against messing around bending paper clips or similar in case you have the misfortune to break it off in the hole. Then the fun would really start ... ;)
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It was fast before, and it was good before. But now, its definitely faster, and its definitely better. God I love this bike...
Well done Ogri. Brave man too. Mike did mine back in 2005 - slip on kit.
The things I noticed straight off (I can still remember) was a much stronger pick up at about 2.5K with the throttle wide open. Then that extra surge towards the top end. But best of all, no surging at small constant thottle openings. Mine will roll through towns at 30-35 mph in 6th, before I had to knock it down to 4th and it would still surge.
Well worth doing.
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cheers vna..yup, both me and dave noticed the huge improvement in that area mate. Just wish id done it two years ago ;) One of the worst jobs was the daftest..ive connected all manner of shite to the battery over the last two years (heated grips, optimate lead, garmin hard wire, accessory fag lighter/usb unit)and messing about re connecting everything along with siting the fuse boxes and over long wiring was ridiculous..in prep for whipping them off again I cut everything back tonight, changed all the fuses for micro blades, then soldered /heat shrunk everything onto just the single leads..another job I should have done ages ago really.. :lol :lol
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Mine's the top one :rolleyes
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That made me laugh, Paul. The number of Fazers I worked on that had battery wiring like yours, as though they were powering every accessory in Halfords. :)
Nice job now. :)
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Top job on the wiring mate :thumbup
Another one on my to-do list now......... ;)
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That made me laugh, Paul. The number of Fazers I worked on that had battery wiring like yours, as though they were powering every accessory in Halfords. :)
Nice job now. :)
:thumbup
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ah we all do it fellers :D :D
cant wait for when me illuminated magnifying thing turns up now im eager to get the carbs off and check it all out, even if its a wasted job and everything is tickety boo. I still think theres a slight hesitancy coming off the pilot circuit onto the main...do you think four and three quarter turns out with the mixture screws is a bit much? stock they were all between two and a half and three...thats a lot of difference. I havnt balanced the carbs yet but will borry daves carbtune (thanks again mate) and do it after the next re install
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Did you enlarge one or two pilot bypass holes. If only one, then 4 1/4 - 4 1/2 is what I used to do. However, carb synch will likely have a greater effect than a 1/4 turn on the mixture screws. :)
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I did two mate. I was sure youd done a post about enlarging just one so looked for it but couldn't find it, so just followed ivans instructions. Are the two pipes that rin from the carb to the crankcase just breathers mike or some sort of crankcase pressure thingy? they are a bit of a bugger to disconnect... I did one at the carb and one at the crankcase so I didn't confuse them on the re install
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If you did two pilot bypass holes, your mixture screw setting is correct, Paul. :)
Are you referring to the pair of hoses that run to metal spigots above the front sprocket? If so, those are overflows and you can disconnect both at the spigot end. I just used a flat-blade 'driver to ease them off if they were stuck in place with age.
It doesn't matter which hose goes where but you should find that the hoses have taken a shape over time which will naturally bring them to their respective spigot. Mark one with a bit of tape if you really want to be sure. :)
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fantastic cheers Mike! me led magnifying thingy turned up today so orf with the carbs again tomorrow to check it all out. The 3mm long reach t bar did too so theres lovely. I did use a three eight drive allen head socket on a long bar last time, but I mucho prefer the feel of lightweight gear, weirdo that I am. Im actually looking forward to tackling the job this time around... :D :D
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670 views!! gotta be a few out there thinking about doing their bikes... ;)
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A lot more interesting than the Brexit thread!!
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A lot more interesting than the Brexit thread!!
:rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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lol aint it just.
Deffo whipping the carbs off tomorrow so it will be interesting to me to see whether ive drilled through enough, and how close I was to getting the float heights right with a ruler. One big mistake I wont make again is not getting the air filter box far enough back to give myself more room to work. only after the event did I realise if I unclipped the loom from the side of the box i'd get another half inch back which would have made a lot of difference..also I should have refitted the top bolt to hold it in place while I was working..the slotted hole maks sense now...all good experience in getting to know my bike...
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..also I have a big fuggof propane heater in the garage.... :lol :lol
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did it today. it took three hours. theres a lot to be said for having done a job before. and whereas I spent at least an hour cleaning the carbs/floatbowls etc the first time that was unnecessary this time. and the wiring tidy up saved me at least half an hour in itself
So. I hadnt drilled a few holes enough, the magnifying glass thingy I bought was useless, but the +3.5 cheapo reading glasses I got from poundland for a quid did the job, along with being far more confident this time. I checked the float heights with a Vernier, they were all good. re-fitting was much easier this time, mostly because I bolted the airbox as far back as it would go, then forced the back up with a rag to give me a decent bit of room, and manouvered the carbs in holdin them as high as they would go. that made all the difference in the world, along with a bit of gentle heat and some grease to make the inlet stubs and airbox connectors all go tickety boo.
whether I imagined it being a little iffy just off idle or not I don't know, but either way, its perfect now.
what an utterly, utterly brilliant bike these fazer thous are..
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Three hours, eh? Not bad, mate. :)
With a few of the pilot bypass holes smeared partially closed rather than enlarged, it's no wonder you felt it was a little 'off' low down. Have you synch'ed the carbs this time?
My quickest ever Slip-On kit install was 75 mins from putting the bike on the centre stand. Carbs off, modded, back on and synch'ed, and EXUP adjusted in that time. I was working outside in mid-Feb and it was 'kin cold so I had every incentive to get a wiggle on! :lol
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I have full monty and there is a very slight hesitancy from tickover to light throttle opening, like a fluffing of the carbs which can be heard in the exhaust, catches me out at the lights if i’m Being lazy wristed.
I read that this symptom is indicative of correct pilot screw settings so i’m not too bothered, still goes like stink :D
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still got to sync the carbs fellers. but it deffo all good. 75 minutes mike...thats bloody good going. mind you, 200+ bikes? I bet you could do it in the bloody dark!! :lol ;)
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It was probably around 200 at the time I did that one. Nearer to 700 when I called it a day, Paul. :)
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jesus. I cant imagine taking them carbs in an out 700 times mike. its a wonder you are still sane!
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As you've discovered, Paul, once you've learned the technique and know which tools to use, these carbs are actually very easy to remove and refit. Same with the process of fitting Ivan's kit and doing the other mods in a Full Monty installation. Typically it used to take me less than 15 minutes to remove the carbs from the time the bike went on the centrestand. :)
The only thing which caused me concern every time was removing the inlet stubs for gas flowing. The hex bolts on those were usually corroded in the head and it was a fine line between enough torque to crack them loose and too much causing the socket to round off. They were one of the reasons why I stopped doing the Ivan's installs because I couldn't carry the tools with me to deal properly with a damaged bolt. :(
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remember when I first got the bike mike, and wasn't sure if it was already ivanised? I now know a simple test..if your sitting at 90 in top and whack the throttle open count four seconds and your now indicating 145, its ivanised..
Found some reasonably empty camera free motorway stretches today to try the new top end out a bit. Jeeeeeesus kerrist…. :lol :lol
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That's certainly one way of checking it out, Paul. ;)
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I now know a simple test..if your sitting at 90 in top and whack the throttle open count four seconds and your now indicating 145, its ivanised..
Yup, been there done that... a few times..
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:lol :lol :lol
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borrowed daves carbtune today (cheers buddy), be interesting to see how far out mine are after the mods :) hopefully get on it tomorrow night after work
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balancing sorted...cheers dave.. they were a bit out to say the least
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and I found a foreigner in the camp...new plug and clip ordered from fowlers...
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Nicely done Paul.
Have you taken the bike out for a spin since?
Be interesting to see whether you notice a further improvement or not.
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no was too cold by the time I finished last night dave, didn't feel like it. was going to tonight but been changing the tyres on me onda :)
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franks loving that heater.... :lol
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He's a good old boy :)
What tyres did you go for on the CB?
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bt016s. just love em. when I lived in the fens I needed tyres that wore well, as I had to ride a lot of straight roads to find some twisties. now I actually live on a twisty (with plenty more around as we both know buddy) i'll stick with rubber that warms up very quickly no matter what the temperature outside, and handles like a flippin demon. I know i'll only get 2k out of the pair on the big heavy grunty honda, but running three bikes means thats realistically easily a full season...and I don't like using tyres past a year old Anyhoo, so at £130 a pop its making good sense to me. hopefully weather will hold over the weekend, I can try the fazer then.
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ill stick the avons on the fazer when we go to France mate so they wont be wasted.. ;)
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two things I noticed on my very cold commute this morning now the bike is ivanised and the carbs are balanced,.
firstly, its a super smooth turbine now. Glitch free(once warm) and strong, it actually feels like a pukka track bike (in terms of fuelling), and whilst thats really nice, I actually miss the character a bit the engine had when it was stock (fuelling rich low down). not enough to want it back tho :lol :lol
You just cant win with some people, right? lol..
You can really feel its a lot leaner low down, and whereas before you could knock the choke of almost instantly, you've now got to feather it off over five miles or so on a really cold day like today. the plus side (along with of course that it runs perfectly now once warm) is the improved fuel economy. Unless ive got me figures wrong its getting between 20-35 miles extra a tank, depending on how im riding. Thats fairly extraordinary to say the least.
Still getting used to the top end pull it has now...gonna be eating some tyres this summer :) .
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I think you are the first guy I have heard say they are getting improved mpg after Ivanising.Mine dropped over 40 miles per tank.
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Seems odd to me.My choke became just about obsolete once it was Ivanised. I only need to use it when it's really cold.Which I thought made sense as surely opening up the by-pass holes makes it richer at the bottom end.MPG, just the same if maybe a wee bit more, as I wasn't knocking it down to 4th to go through towns any more.
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aha. so is mine running too lean you think?
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the only way to know for sure is a dyno run I spose..
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I'd agree regarding the choke becoming redundant after Ivanising, although not used much in winter. Couldn't comment on mpg as Mike worked his magic when I'd just bought the bike, but get around 180ish before the light comes on if not used too enthusiastically.
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im wondering if ive altered something when I balanced the carbs. I initially turned the screws way to far, so much so the throttle wouldn't twist.
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aha. so is mine running too lean you think?
Dunno. I thought your comments were a wee bit odd. Unless the weather is cold I don't need the choke. Been like that since Mike Ivanised it.
The other thing I noticed low down was riding through towns. OE at small constant throttle openings she surged. The bike wasn't smooth and settled. It was a wee bit as if you had a shaky throttle hand. But after Ivanising it was smooth as silk.
I always figured it ran lean OE to get through the emissions certifications. Was one of the last bikes on sale with carbs, and basically emissions standards killed off carbs.
Maybe PM Mike.
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the only way to know for sure is a dyno run I spose..
Double check eveything before you throw money at the dyno.
Ivans kit should be plug and play. No Dyno time required.
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yup mate. I'll pm mike.. :)
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My bike was a bit of hit and miss to start, very temperamental. I never seemed to have the nack. You needed a bit of throttle, not to much or it would over rev, to little it would not fire and a mix of choke thrown in.Since Ivanising it has improved but still temperamental and I still don't seem to have the nack.
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Stock fuelling is lean on the bottom end, rich at full throttle. Ivan's kits specifically address this and it's the reason for opening up the pilot circuit bypass holes, Paul. As others have said, should require less choke than before now and should be running richer not leaner on part throttle.
You're now going to ask me what might be wrong. :)
I can't think of anything you would have changed by synch'ing the carbs. You don't report any symptoms that might suggest carbs incorrectly fitted, which is good. I would focus on mixture screw settings (4 2/3 to 5 turns out with two holes enlarged) and float heights. My money is on the latter.
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I just thought of summat fellers. I had to get a new plug for the carb manifold take off as it had a dodgy one. the other three looked ok but slipped back on very easily (no pliars to open clips just pushed straight back on)with the clip in situ. im wonder if disturbing them has made them leaky. if so perhaps they leak when its very cold (three degrees yesterday here and just as cold for my run in today) but as the engine heat gets to them tthey flex and expand a tiny bit and seal, hence the problem dissaears. This problem has only manifested since 1) I balanced the carbs 2) I removed and refitted the manifold plugs 3) it got really bloody cold.
So, i'll order new plugs/clips off fowlers today (should have changed them all the first time, just ordering the one the postage was as much as the parts!) if that doesn't sort t carbs off again this weekend, at least ive got that down to an easy job now, and with a big heater in the workshop im enjoying being out there with me dawg and raddyo..and cheers mike, first thing i'll check again is the float heights..
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actually im in uni this afternoon so ill pop to fowlers first and pick the buggers up...
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Sounds like a plan.Still well impressed you tackled this yourself. Hope the new plugs and clip do the job.
You will need the choke at 3 degrees C! Mine will tick over without choke after about a minute or so at that kind of temp. Though it will take a mile or so before it will accept plenty of throttle without bogging down.
Bit cold for riding the bike surely. Snow has appeared to day up here.
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I cant even contemplate using me van or the car to get into Bristol mate, its 35 mins on the bike, would be 2 hours in a box and cost me a fiver a day to park at uni campus. I think it is them plugs you know....ran perfectly today even though it was snowing and only needed half choke for about a mile. I think they've bedded in now or at least sealed themselves..but went to Fowlers and got four new uns (so I got a spare) Anyhoo, I'll fit them tonight ;)
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You're riding in the snow :eek
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took the carbs off last night and wound the mixture screw in half a turn on every carb, so now 4 and a quarter out instead of 4 and three quarters.
For whatever reason it was an utter bastard to get the carb bank back in the inlets stubs. I actually hurt my bloody back with all the bending and fannying around! once it was all back together I thought "right if its still fluffy when cold it can foccin stay that way"..
fired it up.
finally..perfick.
this mornings commute was the acid test..hardly needed any choke, ran faultlessly even when cold, and still goes like shit of a shovel at the top.
I have no idea why mine needed tweaking a tad from Ivans specs. Mileage perhaps? (40k) im guessing most where done at low miles. either way I don't care,its sortd thats all that matters.. :) :)
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Sounds good.She should pick up very keenly at 2.5k compared to stock.
And run smooth at 35mph in 5th and 6th wi zero surging.
Hope the back's OK.
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cheers mate... the bike is pukka, the back not so much so lol.
Christ I hate getting old,
I mean, who puts their back out refitting carbs... :'( :'( :'(
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Sounds good - well, the bike does anyway. :lol
Hope that back gets better.
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just had the carbs out and in again lol, and its getting easier..there are a couple of things I do now which make it a lot more accessible. Basically, ive stopped taking silly short cuts which actually take longer to get past in the long run...
Firstly, I disconnect all the connectors in that big bunch just above the head. makes it far easier to work and see what your doing. a bit of switch cleaner doesn't go amiss before you click them back together. secondly, I undo the throttle cables and remove the outers from the bracket before I try and slide the bank out....gives a lot more room as it lets you lift the carbs before tilting/sliding them out.
Thirdly I use a little hooky tool to disconnect/re connect the inners...as mike said once you know how to its dead easy. you just gotta make sure you get the two throttle cables attached right when your re assembling so they lie correctly side by side once the carbs are in place instead of being tangled around each other.
fourthly tings like the choke cable and carb de ice pipes I trap behind ht leads so they are out of the way
fifth, a bit oh heat and light smear of grease on the inlet stubs, then straddle the bike to pop the arbs in square
lastly...relax, take your time, and don't force anything. Its quite an enjoyable job really, and kinda satisfying.