Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: Grahamm on 10 October 2019, 11:29:20 pm
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Harry Dunn, a 19 year old motorcyclist, died in August when his bike hit a car (that may have been driven by the wife of an American Diplomat) after it pulled out of an exit onto the wrong side of the road.
The Police wanted to question her and she said she wouldn't leave the country, but she then flew back to the USA and Trump has just said that the USA will not waive her Diplomatic Immunity and return her to the UK to be questioned and face possible trial
:2guns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49995867 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-49995867)
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No 'may' about it. Northamptonshire Police have video evidence.
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Don't think she just pulled out, i read she drove 400 metres (quarter of a mile) before contact. Her only defence is that it was a country road so was no doubt driving on it alone with no other traffic guidance (easily done to be honest), but accidental or not, either way the damage has been done and she should never have been allowed to leave the country, in my opinion.
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It is an easy mistake to make but with tragic consequences. My local hospital car park is on a two lane one way street but when you come back out there are no one way signs in front of you. Considering perhaps it could be peoples first visit under stressful circumstances then leaving after a few hours all you have to do is forget its a one way.
Its clear that she is not coming back.
By way of atonement the US gov could install in all American bases just inside or outside the gates, reminder signs to drive on the left and in the corner a little Union jack and the name Harry Dunn.
She may as well of stayed to face the law because all that would happen is the she would be done for dangerous driving fined £250 and banned from driving for 12 months.
What gets my goat is the the story has been hijacked by anti trumpests and care not for the biker.
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The other issue a lot of these "bases" have is they enchorage the staff to bring their cars over from the USA meaning not even the steering wheel being next to the hedge is a clue
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The other issue a lot of these "bases" have is they enchorage the staff to bring their cars over from the USA
Why is that ?
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The other issue a lot of these "bases" have is they enchorage the staff to bring their cars over from the USA
Why is that ?
On base, they drive on the right with a lot of US spec vehicles
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The other issue a lot of these "bases" have is they enchorage the staff to bring their cars over from the USA
Why is that ?
On base, they drive on the right with a lot of US spec vehicles
I see. Then its no wonder that an American would come out of the base after driving on the right for a few days and then come out and carry on doing the same. What a stupid STUPID thing to do on a base --- that is just asking for trouble and im surprised it has not happened before . It would make far better sense to have to drive on the base on the left so at least they can get the hang of it off the roads.
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I see. Then its no wonder that an American would come out of the base after driving on the right for a few days and then come out and carry on doing the same. What a stupid STUPID thing to do on a base --- that is just asking for trouble and im surprised it has not happened before . It would make far better sense to have to drive on the base on the left so at least they can get the hang of it off the roads.
It probably has happened before, its just that when it happened before the person didn't claim diplomatic immunity and run away.
The Americans see the bases they use as part of the USA so do everything the same as they would at home even down to spending US dollars when on site.
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The other issue a lot of these "bases" have is they enchorage the staff to bring their cars over from the USA
Why is that ?
On base, they drive on the right with a lot of US spec vehicles
I see. Then its no wonder that an American would come out of the base after driving on the right for a few days and then come out and carry on doing the same. What a stupid STUPID thing to do on a base --- that is just asking for trouble and im surprised it has not happened before . It would make far better sense to have to drive on the base on the left so at least they can get the hang of it off the roads.
They do… at least, to judge by the road markings visible on Google Earth. They even have roundabouts.
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I think she should have stayed and faced up to her mistake in court, I have been surprised by the lack of this story on motorcycling forums.
On a sensible health and safety note I think it is probably time we started driving on the right hand side so we are in tune with the majority of the world.
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On a sensible health and safety note I think it is probably time we started driving on the right hand side so we are in tune with the majority of the world.
Sweden switched in 1967 when they had a population of around 8m people spread over 447,000km2 . At that time they didn't really have much traffic and very few OAPs that would be easily confused. I don't think they would be able to do it today even though they still only have about 10m people there, many more are much older and easily confused.
The UK is about half the size of Sweden at 224,000km2 but we have 66m people living here so there is a lot more traffic per mile than Sweden will ever see.
We would see a lot more stories about people on the wrong side of the road, made even worse as people have their steering wheels on the wrong side until they buy new cars. Imagine the carnage as boy/girl racers pull out from behind a truck to overtake but hadn't seen the truck coming the other way.... Its a risk we take when we drive abroad, but we are on holiday and generally not running late for work etc so less likely to take that risk.
Then theres all the car/van/bike headlights that "kick-up" to the left that would need stickers, or new headlights, to avoid dazzling people coming the other way. The road signs that would all need to be moved/replaced to show the new junction layouts etc. It would cost more than Brexshit and cause more deaths too.
Make the rest of the world adopt the correct side of the road instead :pokefun
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On a sensible health and safety note I think it is probably time we started driving on the right hand side so we are in tune with the majority of the world.
Sweden switched in 1967 when they had a population of around 8m people spread over 447,000km2 . At that time they didn't really have much traffic and very few OAPs that would be easily confused. I don't think they would be able to do it today even though they still only have about 10m people there, many more are much older and easily confused.
The UK is about half the size of Sweden at 224,000km2 but we have 66m people living here so there is a lot more traffic per mile than Sweden will ever see.
We would see a lot more stories about people on the wrong side of the road, made even worse as people have their steering wheels on the wrong side until they buy new cars. Imagine the carnage as boy/girl racers pull out from behind a truck to overtake but hadn't seen the truck coming the other way.... Its a risk we take when we drive abroad, but we are on holiday and generally not running late for work etc so less likely to take that risk.
Then theres all the car/van/bike headlights that "kick-up" to the left that would need stickers, or new headlights, to avoid dazzling people coming the other way. The road signs that would all need to be moved/replaced to show the new junction layouts etc. It would cost more than Brexshit and cause more deaths too.
Make the rest of the world adopt the correct side of the road instead :pokefun
Also the very structure of roundabouts will need to be altered as the entry and exits are biased to a clockwise flow (I think ).
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It’s not murder, but yeah it’s shocking that this woman has fled the country and is hiding under the cover of diplomatic immunity. This is not what diplomatic immunity is for.
I do feel for the young man’s family. It’s an extraordinarily distressing situation for the family never mind that ‘suspect’ is abusing such a privilege in order to stop due process.
What gets my goat is the the story has been hijacked by anti trumpests and care not for the biker.
Our Prime Minister has appealed to the President on this very matter. The President couldn’t give a shit.
And really what do you expect? It’s within the same week Trump has given carte blanche for Turkey to slaughter more Kurds. Trump is a disgusting narcissistic sick weasel of a man.
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On a sensible health and safety note I think it is probably time we started driving on the right hand side so we are in tune with the majority of the world.
Make the rest of the world adopt the correct side of the road instead
The left is the logical side of the road to drive on. Not that it makes much difference. Yes we should have followed Sweden after 1967. But, you know rule Britannia, middle England and all that – just look at the ****** mess. England is an emotional country, it does not always follow simple logic.
But I agree with BBROWN, I think, unless some suitably qualified experts (I still pay attention to them despite some having had enough of them) can tell us otherwise, it’s probably too late to switch.
On the other hand, technology may eventually help reduce these tragic accidents.
Meanwhile I hear Ireland plans to switch to the right. To keep costs down they are going to phase it in a street at a time.
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Harry Dunn’s family to travel to US to seek justice for their son
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/11/harry-dunn-family-flying-us-seek-justice-son-diplomats-wife (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/11/harry-dunn-family-flying-us-seek-justice-son-diplomats-wife)
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Here we go :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :rolleyes :z :z :z :z :z :z :z :z :z That's it ---- Im out :finger
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she should never have been allowed to leave the country, in my opinion.
She (and her family) flew out on a private flight from a US Air Base...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/08/harry-dunn-death-private-flight-us-airbase-spirited-wife-american/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/08/harry-dunn-death-private-flight-us-airbase-spirited-wife-american/)
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(From what I've read) She'd only been over here 3 weeks. She had just pulled out of the base entrance and drove 400 yards before the collision. It's not murder. Manslaughter possibly, and certainly 'causing death by dangerous driving'.
I also read that in the US they do not recognise diplomatic immunity where a foreign diplomat is involved in a serious traffic offence. Double standards.
I'm also surprised there hasn't been much biker reaction. A fellow biker and his family destroyed.
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Here we go ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/rolleyes.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/z.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/z.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/z.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/z.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/z.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/z.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/z.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/z.gif[/url]) ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/z.gif[/url]) That's it ---- Im out
:lol :thumbup
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(From what I've read) She'd only been over here 3 weeks. She had just pulled out of the base entrance and drove 400 yards before the collision. It's not murder. Manslaughter possibly, and certainly 'causing death by dangerous driving'.
I also read that in the US they do not recognise diplomatic immunity where a foreign diplomat is involved in a serious traffic offence. Double standards.
I'm also surprised there hasn't been much biker reaction. A fellow biker and his family destroyed.
I’m always torn with these cases. And I’m not sure if it is even dangerous driving, though as obviously dangerous and fatal as in this case it was.
It’s almost a fact of life that people die, probably on a daily basis around the globe, because some countries drive on the left whilst others drive on the right. One silly little mistake is all it takes, or one moments confusion.
Been there a number of times as well, but been lucky to avoid the offending vehicles.
It’s the running away that is shocking. It’s sucks. She should show some respect, and indeed maybe even have some respect for her own dignity, of which, right now she seems to lack.
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The least she should do is say sorry to his parents . Why have Northamptonshire police not sent an officer over to the states, to get a statement off her. It at least might give his poor parents some closure. When the police are happy to keep sending officers to Portugal costing the country and the police millions on what now must now be a very cold case. Could it be because they are doctors that move in the right circles?
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She should be returned to UK, to face a court hearing on what she did, and then accept/serve whatever punishment the judge sees fit to impose on her.
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Well obviously.As I said earlier our PM has appealed to the US President. However the USA has no intention whatsoever, at this time, of asking her to return to the UK.This is an abuse of diplomatic Imunity.
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She just lost her diplomatic immunity!!!
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It’s all rather confusing now. The diplomatic immunity is either no longer relevant because she has returned home, as it only applies in the host country, or that in fact she never had diplomatic immunity in the first place.
Apparently Northamptonshire police were instructed not to investigate the accident by the UK government as she had protective status.
More here - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/13/harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-driver-who-fled-uk-devastated-by-fatal-crash (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/13/harry-dunn-anne-sacoolas-driver-who-fled-uk-devastated-by-fatal-crash)
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This is worth a read.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/the-foreign-office-must-be-challenged-over-sacoolas-immunity/ (https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/the-foreign-office-must-be-challenged-over-sacoolas-immunity/)
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This is so sad. If she had just stayed and chatted to the Police this although a tragic accident would of probably ended up as community service at most. I very much doubt it would have been custodial as it was an accident. Her whole family must feel absolutely sickened by her actions. So very sad
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As usual young male biker, middle aged female why are we surprised at the treatment of him and his family.
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As VNA points out in his link, there is more to this than meets the eye.
US and UK governments appear to have been desperate to get the family quickly out of the UK because of the husband's 'job'.
The Dunn family's lawyers have requested copies of the documentation authorising their removal, and are threatening to launch a judicial review if not complied with.
I smell a rat
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Yes it stinks.
They’ve tried to cover this up by sneaking her out of the country, but it has backfired spectacularly.
What’s really annoying is that much of the press is still using the term ‘diplomats wife’. I’m not convinced but is there a D notice on this?
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So now a “top lawyer” in America wants to extradite Prince Andrew over his apparent sex scandal.
For starters then, we’ll have the woman back who hit the motorcyclist.
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So now a “top lawyer” in America wants to extradite Prince Andrew over his apparent sex scandal.
For starters then, we’ll have the woman back who hit the motorcyclist.
Lol! I was thinking exactly the same thing...
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One for one swap only fair
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So now a “top lawyer” in America wants to extradite Prince Andrew over his apparent sex scandal.
“Lawyers for Virginia Roberts have written to Andrew at Buckingham Palace to ask for a two-hour sworn interview about Roberts’ claim that she was forced into sexual relations with Andrew by his friend Jeffrey Epstein, a wealthy financier and convicted sex offender.”
“In general, when a Briton is asked for evidence in the US “the deposition would almost certainly take place in the UK – the witness would not be compelled to travel to the US””
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/23/prince-andrew-lawyers-sex-questions-court (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/23/prince-andrew-lawyers-sex-questions-court)
So no not extradite, but interview him.
Don't really know what to make of this. I didn't watch the interview Emily Maitlis, but I've seen clips and quotes, he seems to have made a right royal arse of himself. At best he's just a foccin idiot with no common sense whatsoever. You wonder why the smart people at the palace didn't keep him well away from Epstein after his conviction. It beggers belief.
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So now a “top lawyer” in America wants to extradite Prince Andrew over his apparent sex scandal.
“Lawyers for Virginia Roberts have written to Andrew at Buckingham Palace to ask for a two-hour sworn interview about Roberts’ claim that she was forced into sexual relations with Andrew by his friend Jeffrey Epstein, a wealthy financier and convicted sex offender.”
“In general, when a Briton is asked for evidence in the US “the deposition would almost certainly take place in the UK – the witness would not be compelled to travel to the US””
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/23/prince-andrew-lawyers-sex-questions-court (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/23/prince-andrew-lawyers-sex-questions-court)
So no not extradite, but interview him.
Don't really know what to make of this. I didn't watch the interview Emily Maitlis, but I've seen clips and quotes, he seems to have made a right royal arse of himself. At best he's just a foccin idiot with no common sense whatsoever. You wonder why the smart people at the palace didn't keep him well away from Epstein after his conviction. It beggers belief.
Before you bluntly try and correct my sentence, maybe you could dig up a current newspaper article rather than one from 2015.
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Before you bluntly try and correct my sentence, maybe you could dig up a current newspaper article rather than one from 2015.
Fair point. :lol That article is a bit old. But it still seems to be where we are.
I don’t see any extradition request.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jeffrey-epstein-prince-andrew-bbc-interview-extradition-investigation-latest-a9208171.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jeffrey-epstein-prince-andrew-bbc-interview-extradition-investigation-latest-a9208171.html)
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I cant really get interested in the Prince Andrew stuff, Im guessing its now been taken over by the murican legal steamroller, with views on major damages driving it all now. Shame they couldn't get themselves involved to the same extent in the death of an Englishman at the hands of an American citizen.
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Just found this petition.
https://www.thepetitionsite.com/en-gb/961/919/858/demand-expadition-or-prince-andrew-of-the-uk./
21 people in 2 days......impressive :rollin :rollin :rollin
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I cant really get interested in the Prince Andrew stuff, Im guessing its now been taken over by the murican legal steamroller, with views on major damages driving it all now. Shame they couldn't get themselves involved to the same extent in the death of an Englishman at the hands of an American citizen.
He's been stupid without a doubt, i've still not watched the interview but i will.
But you can't help feeling that this is all driven by the chance of a large pot of gold for the yank woman involved.
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He's been stupid without a doubt, i've still not watched the interview but i will.
But you can't help feeling that this is all driven by the chance of a large pot of gold for the yank woman involved.
Where have we heard than one before…………
Andrew first met Epstein in 1999. Epstein has been to Windsor Palace, Balmoral and Sandringham. Andrew has stayed at Epstein’s properties in the US.
In 2008 Epstein pleaded guilty to a felony charge of solicitation of prostitution involving a minor.
He served 13months in prison.
After he was released according to Price Andrew, he travelled to the US in order to tell Epstein that it would be inappropriate for them to spend time together in the future. Apparently, it was a convenient place to stay for four days. And it was the honourable and right thing to do. I mean what the foc :eek :eek :eek
Epstein was found dead in prison – he was being held on suspicion of trafficking children for sex. That's veryconvenient for a lot of people.
But yeah sure, it’s all about money. Why didn’t they just leave the poor child sex trafficking paedophile alone – eh?
I have no idea if Prince Andrew has any involvement whatsoever in Epsteins activities. What he is, at the very least, clearly guilty of is gross stupidity, a most serious lack of judgement and a total lack of sensitivity for the victims of Epsteins crimes.
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Epstein was found dead in prison – he was being held on suspicion of trafficking children for sex. That's very convenient for a lot of people.
Who do you think killed him then
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I have no idea if Prince Andrew has any involvement whatsoever in Epsteins activities. What he is, at the very least, clearly guilty of is gross stupidity, a most serious lack of judgement and a total lack of sensitivity for the victims of Epsteins crimes.
Andrew was not exactly squeaky clean before this anyway. Some dodgy deals with his Kazakh and Saudi friends.
The bit that makes me laugh the most is his alibi about being in Woking Pizza Express, where nobody seems to have noticed him.
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I have no idea if Prince Andrew has any involvement whatsoever in Epsteins activities. What he is, at the very least, clearly guilty of is gross stupidity, a most serious lack of judgement and a total lack of sensitivity for the victims of Epsteins crimes.
Andrew was not exactly squeaky clean before this anyway. Some dodgy deals with his Kazakh and Saudi friends.
The bit that makes me laugh the most is his alibi about being in Woking Pizza Express, where nobody seems to have noticed him.
I remember back in the day the press referred to Prince Andrew as 'Randy Andy'
SOme things never change lol
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I have no idea if Prince Andrew has any involvement whatsoever in Epsteins activities. What he is, at the very least, clearly guilty of is gross stupidity, a most serious lack of judgement and a total lack of sensitivity for the victims of Epsteins crimes.
Andrew was not exactly squeaky clean before this anyway. Some dodgy deals with his Kazakh and Saudi friends.
The bit that makes me laugh the most is his alibi about being in Woking Pizza Express, where nobody seems to have noticed him.
Just a thought, but wouldn't someone like him have his daily life mapped out with a schedule? As in either a diary or being advised what to do by a P.A. meaning it could be still documented on paper or a computer somewhere? He's not obliged to show it over here, as he's done nothing wrong.
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Andrew was not exactly squeaky clean before this anyway. Some dodgy deals with his Kazakh and Saudi friends.
Yes he is the UK Royal arms deal cheerleader. A total wanker.
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Andrew was not exactly squeaky clean before this anyway. Some dodgy deals with his Kazakh and Saudi friends.
Yes he is the UK Royal arms deal cheerleader. A total wanker.
Have you ever spoken nicely about anyone?
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Have you ever spoken nicely about anyone?
Well you know, I’m just not that desperately keen on royal arms dealers, which was effectively his job for quite some years, who happen to like hanging out with paedophiles. Know what I mean.
Now again, just to be clear, I have no idea if Andrew had in involement in any way in Epsteins activities. But after Epsteins conviction for paedophilia, good old Andrew decided it was perfectly OK to go and see his old "friend" and stay at his house for a few days.
What can I say?
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Dominic Raab is to seek legal costs from the Dunn family;
The Dunn is taking legal action against the foreign secretary after their son was killed in a collision outside an RAF station in Northamptonshire.
They have claimed Mr Raab misused and abused his power when he granted diplomatic immunity to Anne Sacoolas, the crash suspect whose husband is a US diplomat.
The Foreign Office has said it will oppose the family’s legal action and it will "seek costs for doing so.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/harry-dunn-death-dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-legal-costs-diplomatic-immunity-anne-sacoolas-a9210931.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/harry-dunn-death-dominic-raab-foreign-secretary-legal-costs-diplomatic-immunity-anne-sacoolas-a9210931.html)
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Ye gods!
They claim they're concerned about "Protecting taxpayers' money", but they don't give a shit about tax payers' lives!!
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Yup kinda sums this government up. Shocking.
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And we appear to be happy to let the US extradite Assange, but as we know, the 'special relationship' only works in one direction
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The family of teenage motorcyclist Harry Dunn have launched a legal action against the Foreign Office which they said could cost them “upwards of £50,000”.
[/size]The 19-year-old’s parents submitted a judicial review against the foreign secretary, Dominic Raab (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/dominic-raab), on Wednesday following a long-running dispute over the extension of diplomatic immunity to intelligence staff and their families at RAF Croughton.
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Not giving up. Disgraceful
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/15/harry-dunns-mother-distraught-after-suspect-filmed-driving-in-us (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/15/harry-dunns-mother-distraught-after-suspect-filmed-driving-in-us)
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Probably not the greatest idea questioning her while she's reversing her car.
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Safer than being in front of it....
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How about a civilian swap - sounds fair? Send Prince Andrew over the pond to face his accuser, concerning his connection to a paedophilia ring + more, in exchange for this hapless Diplomats wife who happily hits (murders) and runs !? :foc
Both knew EXACTLY what they were involved in, at the time of the offences. :2guns
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If they just ask Prince Andrew close protection officer where he was on certain dates it will all be documented. That evidence will either prove his innocence or prove he has questions to answer. He may have assumed she was old enough as she looked much older than 16 but............ ignorance of the law and all that..
As for that woman, Trumptown should never have let he go home
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She was 17 at the time of the (alleged) offense. Legal in the UK, but not in Florida where it happened.
But of course it is not going to happen is it :rolleyes
Good on Harry's family for keeping up the pressure.
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If they just ask Prince Andrew close protection officer where he was on certain dates it will all be documented. That evidence will either prove his innocence or prove he has questions to answer. He may have assumed she was old enough as she looked much older than 16 but............ ignorance of the law and all that..
As for that woman, Trumptown should never have let he go home
Prince Andrews close protection officer, his daughters, the Queen (!) ... you could ask anyone, but the TRUTH would always be hidden/denied. People in the upper echelons of society have ways to silence/influence the media plus minions, even more so when their "reputation" is at stake.
Whatever her age, he (Andrew) was still great chums with the known paedophile (which only stopped because he got found out!) visiting him residence Several times, committed adultery, deceived his family, the list goes on. :) But we are patriotic - right? Plus its Royalty (gasp) so we'll just brush it under the carpet.
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...
Good on Harry's family for keeping up the pressure.
Agreed! :thumbup
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.
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It looks like she is being charged. Whether it ever leads to a conviction and her paying for her crime is another matter as you can be charged (and sentenced) in your absence but if she never returns to the UK, she is unlikely to actually pay.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50870459 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50870459)
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Agreed (you beat me to it), The Crown Prosecution Service has now announced it has charged Mrs Sacoolas, 42, with causing death by dangerous driving.
It comes after Northamptonshire Police interviewed Mrs Sacoolas in America and handed their completed file of evidence on Mr Dunn's death to the CPS last month.
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It looks like she is being charged.
Which begs the question why this did not happen in the first place.
I have to say I am a little confused.
There is firstly the question of whether or not Mr Sacoolas’s wife had diplomatic immunity in the first place, as it has been reported that his name does not appear on any such lists. It has also been reported that he was here in the UK to spy on the UK.
It’s further been reported that Dominic Raab called off the cops as he granted diplomatic immunity to Anne Sacoolas. Harry’s family have taken legal action against him for doing so, as they claim what he did was wrong. The government in turn is seeking legal costs from the Dunns for taking legal action against them (no surprise there seeing as we have a Tory government.)
Now I read;
The Foreign Office is to remove an anomaly that helped Sacoolas leave the UK, claiming diplomatic immunity after her car crashed into Harry on 27 August, killing him and prompting a long diplomatic tug of war between the US and the UK.
The foreign secretary, Dominic Raab, is to start talks with the US to end an anomaly whereby family members of US staff based at RAF Croughton appear to have greater protection than the staff themselves.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/20/anne-sacoolas-charged-over-death-of-harry-dunn (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/20/anne-sacoolas-charged-over-death-of-harry-dunn)
Now correct me if I am wrong here, but the crown prosecution service, is now requesting that the home office (who may have wrongly granted Scoolas immunity, but is seeking legal costs from the Dunns for questioning this, whilst discussing with the US bringing an end to any anomalies that have led to this confusion) begin extradition proceedings against Scoolas.
I can’t see her being extradited. And it looks unlikely she will voluntarily return.
What a mess.
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Thought it was a straightforward extradition 'till I read that,I don't know the ins and outs of these things like you and others here but after reading a few posts I've come to the conclusion that there's next to no chance of her being extradited and unbelievably the Dunns will be lucky to avoid a legal action. :eek
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I don't know the ins and outs of these things like you and others here
Just following what's the in the press. Plus some worthwhile commentary on twitter.
It's all pretty confusing to the say the least.
I would guess that the best that can come of it is perhaps, is that Ms Sacoolas will not be able to set foot in the UK again without fear of arrest.
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It looks like she is being charged.
Only four months after the event...
It won't make any difference, of course.
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It looks like she is being charged.
Only four months after the event...
It won't make any difference, of course.
There you go, now you need to retain that mindset in regards to Corbyn losing, you're slowly getting the hang of things now :lol
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Quote from: Grahamm on Today at 02:17:41 AM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=25682.msg307217#msg307217[/url])<blockquote>Quote from: BBROWN1664 on 20 December 2019, 01:44:30 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=25682.msg307198#msg307198[/url])<blockquote>It looks like she is being charged. </blockquote>
Only four months after the event...
It won't make any difference, of course.
</blockquote>
There you go, now you need to retain that mindset in regards to Corbyn losing, you're slowly getting the hang of things now
Don’t forget that it is your Tory government darrsi that called off the cops and allowed Ms Sacoolas to leave the country.
Don’t forget that it is your Tory government darrsi that is seeking compensation for it’s legal costs from Harry’s family for challenging them in granting Ms Sacoolas diplomatic immunity.
Don’t forget that it is your Tory government darrsi that subsequently wasted big bucks sending cops to the USA to interview Ms Sacoolas when she could have been interviewed and charged in the UK.
And lets be honest Darrsi, you Toryr government will now just go through the motions, if it even bothers, when it comes to the extradition of Ms Sacoolas.
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There you go, now you need to retain that mindset in regards to Corbyn losing, you're slowly getting the hang of things now
What's this got to do with Brexit and Corbyn? Why do you bring this up in another thread? How childish :rolleyes
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Quote from: Grahamm on Today at 02:17:41 AM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=25682.msg307217#msg307217[/url])<blockquote>Quote from: BBROWN1664 on 20 December 2019, 01:44:30 PM ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?topic=25682.msg307198#msg307198[/url])<blockquote>It looks like she is being charged. </blockquote>
Only four months after the event...
It won't make any difference, of course.
</blockquote>
There you go, now you need to retain that mindset in regards to Corbyn losing, you're slowly getting the hang of things now
Don’t forget that it is your Tory government darrsi that called off the cops and allowed Ms Sacoolas to leave the country.
Don’t forget that it is your Tory government darrsi that is seeking compensation for it’s legal costs from Harry’s family for challenging them in granting Ms Sacoolas diplomatic immunity.
Don’t forget that it is your Tory government darrsi that subsequently wasted big bucks sending cops to the USA to interview Ms Sacoolas when she could have been interviewed and charged in the UK.
And lets be honest Darrsi, you Toryr government will now just go through the motions, if it even bothers, when it comes to the extradition of Ms Sacoolas.
Now now, how many times do i have to tell you i don't support any party? In fact i've said it several times now.
Just because i can't stand Corbyn, doesn't mean i like anyone else, which i've mentioned many times too.
In the same breath, not liking the Leftie twats does not make you Right Wing either. The majority of decent straight minded people don't care for any of them.
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Can we leave politics out of this, this is about someones son dying in tragic circumstances and his parents finding a way to deal with that. She has now been charged by the CPS and if she is not willing to come back, she should be tried in her absence, a guilty verdict means if she ever returns to this country she will be arrested to serve her sentence. My heart goes out to Harrys family I lost my eldest son when he was 7, 35years ago and it's still very very raw.
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Can we leave politics out of this, this is about someones son dying in tragic circumstances and his parents finding a way to deal with that. She has now been charged by the CPS and if she is not willing to come back, she should be tried in her absence, a guilty verdict means if she ever returns to this country she will be arrested to serve her sentence. My heart goes out to Harrys family I lost my eldest son when he was 7, 35years ago and it's still very very raw.
She's not going to return though is she!
They won't extradite her, and nobody in their right mind will voluntarily swap their freedom for a "possible" prison sentence, even if it's for weeks or a few months. And because of her husbands status she will be protected by the powers that be in the U.S.
It's not the desired result at all, but that is how things will pan out no doubt.
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Can we leave politics out of this, this is about someones son dying in tragic circumstances and his parents finding a way to deal with that. She has now been charged by the CPS and if she is not willing to come back, she should be tried in her absence, a guilty verdict means if she ever returns to this country she will be arrested to serve her sentence. My heart goes out to Harrys family I lost my eldest son when he was 7, 35years ago and it's still very very raw.
Absolutely. Also (assuming we keep it going) she'll be arrested in any other European country she visits under a European Arrest Warrant.
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Absolutely. Also (assuming we keep it going) she'll be arrested in any other European country she visits under a European Arrest Warrant.
Actually that sounds like a bigger punishment than 2 weeks in jail. Which would include - would it ?- all of the uk territory in the Caribbean ruling out any nice cruises she plans on doing.
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Can we leave politics out of this, this is about someones son dying in tragic circumstances and his parents finding a way to deal with that.
Politics got involved Steve. That's the whole point. The Foreign and Common Wealth Office (FCO), it would appear, wrongly advised Northants police that Anne Sacoolas had diplomatic immunity. The Dunn family have taken legal action against the FCO, in turn Dominic Raab – secretary of state for foreign affairs is taking legal action against the Dunns in order to recoup the governments costs in defending their undefendable decision.
You can’t take the politics out of a political mess.
Raab, made the wrong decision, he has misled the Dunns, and treated them most appallingly.
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But that's not politics. (Far be it from me to defend the current government) but it seems that Raab gave the right advice. US staff at the base had waived immunity, but it wasn't waived for their families. Raab is now looking to correct the situation.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-raab-loophole-diplomatic-immunity-harry-dunn-a4318761.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-raab-loophole-diplomatic-immunity-harry-dunn-a4318761.html)
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But that's not politics. (Far be it from me to defend the current government) but it seems that Raab gave the right advice. US staff at the base had waived immunity, but it wasn't waived for their families. Raab is now looking to correct the situation.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-raab-loophole-diplomatic-immunity-harry-dunn-a4318761.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-raab-loophole-diplomatic-immunity-harry-dunn-a4318761.html)
It gets more confusing by the day.
And Raab threatening to recoup costs from the Dunns? Nice guy.
Anyway she is refusing to retrun, and further she claims diplomatic immunity, and therefore does not accept the charge.
The US state Department spokesperson said "It is the position of the United States government that a request to extradite an individual under these circumstances would be an egregious abuse."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/harry-dunn-dead-family-trump-administration-prosecution-extradition-a9256191.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/harry-dunn-dead-family-trump-administration-prosecution-extradition-a9256191.html)
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As i said before, it's all about her husbands status, simple as that.
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Asked during a visit to Estonia if suspect Anne Sacoolas should be extradited to the UK, Johnson said: "I think the best thing that I can say there is that the law should take its course and we will be obviously following that case with keen interest and continuing to make representations on behalf of Harry Dunn's family at every level."
Not quite sure what law he's on about?
I was always under the impression that if you were involved in a fatal traffic accident then you got taken down the station and grilled for a while?
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I was always under the impression that if you were involved in a fatal traffic accident then you got taken down the station and grilled for a while?
Sure, until the phone rings and it's Dominic Raab on the line.
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Heard the Chief of Northamptonshire Police on the radio on Friday. Impressed with the way they handled it, but it was clear that they were told to let her go.
I'm very glad that the family have continued to pursue this.
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Not giving up.
Family and friends of Harry Dunn have demonstrated outside the RAF airbase near where he was killed and warned that protests could spread to other bases across the country.
Almost 100 friends and supporters of the Dunn family temporarily blocked the entrance to RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire, asking the US authorities to comply with the UK extradition process. They highlighted the injustice of the fact that some US citizens are able to commit crimes on British soil and then depart without being subject to UK law.
Radd Seiger, spokesperson for the Dunn family, said: “If anybody in Washington thinks that anybody here is going to accept a position where it is OK for American service members to come over here and take a life and then get on the next flight home, well they’ve got another thing coming to them.
“We don’t want to do it but ultimately these [American] bases are posing a threat to us, not just in Northamptonshire but right around the country. If necessary, because we feel under threat, we will close them down.”
He said they felt a demonstration was “the only way we can get our feelings across to Washington”.
''Ultimately if they don’t send [Sacoolas] back we will not accept [RAF Croughton] being in our community,” he added.
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Good on them.
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Extradition Request formally submitted by UK government today.
US officials call it 'highly inappropriate'
The ball is in their court.....
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US officials call it 'highly inappropriate'
In other words the UK can foc off.
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Most probably.
But on the plus side, unless and until the UK withdraws the warrant, her movements out of the USA will be restricted for the rest of her life :)
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A different president may view the situation differently.
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I've got more of a positive view than some this, Id be surprised if she wasn't brought back at some point. She may also decide, if extradition starts to look a reality, to do a runner (again) and re-appear in a country with which we have no such extradition agreements. At which point, a snatch squad also becomes a risk to her
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if extradition starts to look a reality
It isn't and it won't.
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I see Johnson has put his foot in it again. Suggesting publicly that the chances of extradition are 'very low'. This is after the family had agreed with the Home Office not to comment while the process continues.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-51117457 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-51117457)
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It keeps on happening (americans driving on the wrong side), including hitting a police car!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-51160840 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-51160840)
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It keeps on happening (americans driving on the wrong side), including hitting a police car!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-51160840 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-51160840)
I don't think that BMW in the link was doing anything wrong. In a small country lane with a hedge like that I would also be in the same position in the road which would give me a better view around the corner AND they can also see me, which was exactly what looks like happened. My only comment is that the BMW could of been going a little slower.
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:agree
Though I thought it was going too fast and drifted out if you look at the line it is taking once stationary
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I don't think that BMW in the link was doing anything wrong. In a small country lane with a hedge like that I would also be in the same position in the road which would give me a better view around the corner AND they can also see me, which was exactly what looks like happened. My only comment is that the BMW could of been going a little slower.
Not on a blind bend I wouldn't. You have no idea what speed some idiot is coming the other way.
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I don't think that BMW in the link was doing anything wrong. In a small country lane with a hedge like that I would also be in the same position in the road which would give me a better view around the corner AND they can also see me, which was exactly what looks like happened. My only comment is that the BMW could of been going a little slower.
Not on a blind bend I wouldn't. You have no idea what speed some idiot is coming the other way.
One always has to budget for the complete lack of common sense when talking to you :rolleyes Obliviously each road and bend is going to be different, but I am talking about that one in the vid, the road country lane is not wide enough for two cars to pass so whatever happens any meeting of cars is going to result in them having to negotiate past each other, so by taking a wide line on that bend means that the idiot coming the other way will see me sooner and I will also see them.
As I said look at the vid - even if the BMW was hugging the left there is still not enough room for two cars.The vid is not a case of another yank driving on the wrong side of the road, nor was the BMW purposefully tactically positioning themselves for a better view but they were simply a tosser in a BMW driving too fast for the visibility on that road and they drifted out. By the looks of the lane they probably use that lane everyday for months without ever seeing another car - and got used to that.
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[quote author=mtread link=topic=25682.msg308235#msg308235 date=1579476311
Not on a blind bend I wouldn't. You have no idea what speed some idiot is coming the other way.
Hear hear!
The rule is Safety, then Stability *then* View!
And, of course, on a single track road, you have to allow double the stopping distance because any on-coming vehicle will also need space to stop too...
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.The vid is not a case of another yank driving on the wrong side of the road,
.... and how exactly do you know that, Mr know-it-all ? :rolleyes
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.The vid is not a case of another yank driving on the wrong side of the road,
.... and how exactly do you know that, Mr know-it-all ? :rolleyes
By looking carefully at the vid, the BMW when first appears is on the left - as far as it can be given the crappy nature of the nearside verge, it then drifts out - looks like going to fast. look at these screen grab pictures from when the car first is visible .
Also the curfuffle at the point they do pass is because the vehicle with the camera is a VW Transporter taking up most of the lane.
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Difficult to tell, and the second screen grab it's definitely heading for the wrong side of the road. At the end of the day, if there is a collision, and you are on the wrong side of the road, then you are most likely to get prosecuted for dangerous/careless.
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Through looking at the vid I have identified the VW transporter and the owner and also exactly where it was filmed. Here is a screen grab from the BMWs point of view on that lane (as of 2011 ). On a lane only wide enough for 1 vehicle I would of thought that both get prosecuted for dangerous/careless driving neither are on the "wrong side of the road"
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There's a job in CSI out there, waiting for you ;)
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My uncle got knocked off his Honda 50 on his way home from work in the early seventies, A Yank on the wrong side of the road from U.S,A.F Upper Heyford. He spend 2 weeks in The old Radcliffe Infirmary and lost his big toe. he was pretty lucky to be alive. It was between Middleton Stony and Lower Heyford (Just down the road from Croughton) .Ordinary G.I nothing special. G.I was shipped out before Police could do anything. It was pretty much accepted back then, that if a yank hit you that's what happened. seems some things never change. :\
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Well there's a surprise.
US denies extradition request for Harry Dunn suspect
https://f7td5.app.goo.gl/qxP2AM
Bluff called, wonder what will happen next. Their lawyer said he would shut down all us bases, can't see that happening.
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In the report on the radio this morning I was shocked to hear how many other similar incidents there have been involving US personnel in this type of accident in the UK .
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In the report on the radio this morning I was shocked to hear how many other similar incidents there have been involving US personnel in this type of accident in the UK .
It's clearly our fault for not changing all our road traffic signs and switching over to the other side :rolleyes
As for the US refusing to implement the extradition request, that was not helped by Johnson publically saying that's what he expected.
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Petition calling for justice. It may not make any difference, but I think us bikers need to show our support :thumbup :thumbup
https://www.change.org/p/donald-j-trump-justice-for-harry-dunn-extradite-anne-sacoolas (https://www.change.org/p/donald-j-trump-justice-for-harry-dunn-extradite-anne-sacoolas)
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US denies extradition request for Harry Dunn suspect
Political intervention has put a stop to the legal process. The American government has blocked this from even reaching the US courts.
It’s makes you think. Here we are now breaking our ties with our European friends and looking towards Trump’s America for our future prosperity.
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Petition calling for justice. It may not make any difference, but I think us bikers need to show our support ([url]http://foc-u.co.uk/Smileys/efocicon/thumbup.gif[/url])
Who is Misty Morris?
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Back in the 70's I was told that within US bases in the UK, they drive on the right. Is that still the case now.
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American friendly fire has cost many of lives over many years so they so they aren't going to worry over 1 biker.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPHq-EcWoAIkPA6?format=jpg&name=small)
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So, it appears Mrs Sacoolas is a former senior CIA officer...... and Raab didn't tell the family. It appears that their MP Leadsom (another cabinet member) didn't know either.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/10/harry-dunn-family-criticise-raab-after-sacoolas-cia-revelation (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/10/harry-dunn-family-criticise-raab-after-sacoolas-cia-revelation)
This story gets more shit by the day.
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Meanwhile it may be worth noting the case of Mike Lynch.
Lynch was the founder of a UK company quoted on the London Stock Exchange. Allegations of improper accounting in the $11bn sale of Autonomy to Hewlett-Packard in 2011 were investigated by the UK Serious Fraud Office, which decided there was insufficient evidence to bring charges, and Lynch has always denied any wrongdoing. Yet the DoJ wants to bring charges of fraud and conspiracy against Lynch relating to the deal.
It looks like there is a real probability of Lynch being extradited under the UK/US extradition arrangements introduced by Tony Bliar’s government in 2003.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2020/feb/05/us-autonomy-mike-lynch-takeover-court (https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2020/feb/05/us-autonomy-mike-lynch-takeover-court)
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Protest ride for Harry Dunn - riders to congregate at US embassy in London
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/september/harry-dunn-accident/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/september/harry-dunn-accident/)
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So, looking at the title of this thread “How to get away with murder”
It would appear being a Scottish drug dealer is the best way.
4000 drug related deaths in the last 5 years
Police pursued Culpable Homicide on only 7 dealers
Only 5 went to court
With 0 convictions :eek
That’s a pretty disturbing set of statistics.
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If you want to start a discussion on Drug Laws, the New Topic Button is at the top of the page...
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Hmmm,I may do that, thanks for the suggestion. I wonder what I’d title it.... “Where’s the biggest shithole in Britain “ maybe :lol
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How long do we think it would it go until the B word came up?
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Protest ride for Harry Dunn - riders to congregate at US embassy in Londonhttps://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/september/harry-dunn-accident/ (https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2019/september/harry-dunn-accident/)[/font]
Ride goes through the ULEZ zone. That could have been thought through a bit better!
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Ride goes through the ULEZ zone. That could have been thought through a bit better!
Being a fair distance from London I don’t know too much about ULEZ. Also, a bit too far for me to join in, but hopefully they’ll get a good turnout.
Meanwhile the computer says I’d get wacked for £12.50 per day in the ULEZ zone on the old thou! Foc me!
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Yep, and it's 24/7 so no difference on a Saturday.
Actually, the FZS1000 qualifies for exemption, but you need to pay Yamaha UK £60 for a certificate to prove it. Probably not worth it for a one - off :eek
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It seems the embassy protest ride out has been postponed until Friday 1st May. That's not even the Bank Holiday. Bizarre!
https://www.visordown.com/news/general/harry-dunn-rider-protest-rearranged-target-us-embassies-3-cities (https://www.visordown.com/news/general/harry-dunn-rider-protest-rearranged-target-us-embassies-3-cities)
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Anne Sacoolas now wanted by Interpol
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-52619998 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-52619998)
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Harry Dunn's family to bring a private prosecution against Dominic Raab
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/may/28/family-of-harry-dunn-to-bring-private-prosecution-against-dominic-raab
They claim that Raab did not have the authority to allow Anne Sacoolas to return to America after the incident, while there was an ongoing police investigation and while the issue of her diplomatic immunity had not been resolved. They also allege that Raab misled parliament in statements he made about Sacoolas’s return to America.
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High Court stops Government releasing Foreign Office documents
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/18/harry-dunns-parents-setback-legal-action-against-foreign-office (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/18/harry-dunns-parents-setback-legal-action-against-foreign-office)
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So she's now admitted driving on the wrong side of the road, and is considering a "virtual trial" which will obviously be from the safety of America.
Not quite sure what that accomplishes if she's found guilty, because i can't see her rushing over here in a hurry to deal with any sentencing?
Oh, i just read that the parents will only take part in a virtual trial if it's under UK Law and she agrees to serve or deal with any sentence that may be given, if found guilty obviously.
Can't see that happening!
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Odd that she should now publicly admit an offense, from the safety of the US of course. I think there is more of this to come.
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Foreign Office looking rather complicit
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-54904234 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-54904234)
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The family have said that they "feel hopeful" now that Biden is going to be President, but I think those hopes will be dashed quickly.
Yes, Biden isn't Trump, but he's still going to look after American citizens first...
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I agree. The problem (and the current court case) is the Foreign Office. At best they took their eye off the ball. At worst they are complicit.
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Special Relationship with Hamerica????
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So now it appears that Ann Sacoolas did work for US Intelligence, and was not 'merely the wife of a serving military'. So the anomaly that she was covered by diplomatic immunity for criminal acts never applied.
This whole thing continues to stink.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-55927568 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-55927568)
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Or even better still have a name like Blair or Bush.
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It proves one country was lying.
Either the UK knew she was staff and didn't have immunity, and was complicit in getting her out of the UK.
Or the US lied to the UK about her role, so she could leave without the UK's interference.
The so called 'Special Relationship' is we are America's lapdog.
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and, of course, we have "diplomats" doing similar stuff in most other countries around the world, all with immunity. The system is rotten, but is not going change. Id be in favour of a bit of extraordinary rendition, but that would shake the relationship wouldnt it
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The system is rotten, but is not going change. Id be in favour of a bit of extraordinary rendition,
Can't we do what the Americans would do and employ a drone :lol .
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Oops, just noticed somebody already said she worked for the CIA
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So it looks like a US judge has allowed civil proceed against her in the US -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-56246511? (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-us-canada-56246511?)
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So it looks like a US judge has allowed civil proceed against her in the US -
and her husband, for allowing her to use his car.
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So it looks like a US judge has allowed civil proceed against her in the US -
and her husband, for allowing her to use his car.
It really irritates me how in the news whenever they talk about it that it is introduced as Harry Dunn who dies in a MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT. Conscious bias.
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Indeed. If he'd been cycling when she killed him on the wrong side of the road, would they have called it a BICYCLE ACCIDENT?
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'' Sacoolas would be prepared to do community service in the US " - You don't get to decide the punishment.
'' If it had happened in the US, it wouldn't be a criminal offence" - It didn't
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-56326406 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-56326406)
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'' If it had happened in the US, it wouldn't be a criminal offence" - It didn't
WTF? Wow! That's a great idea, commit a crime in one country, then try to get off because it isn't a crime where you come from... :rolleyes
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'' If it had happened in the UK, it wouldn't be a criminal offence" - It didn't
WTF? Wow! That's a great idea, commit a crime in one country, then try to get off because it isn't a crime where you come from... :rolleyes
Modified it to fit Prince Andrews circumstances now :pokefun
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Probably by video link, I would think
BBC News - Harry Dunn crash: Anne Sacoolas to face Westminster magistrates
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-59643750 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-59643750)
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Probably by video link, I would think
BBC News - Harry Dunn crash: Anne Sacoolas to face Westminster magistrates
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-59643750 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-59643750)
:agree
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There seems to be some confusion because:
The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) said Mrs Sacoolas' case would go before magistrates next month.
Her lawyers denied reports the 44-year-old would attend via video link and said no such agreement had been made.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-59643750 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-59643750)
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The whole thing was a balls up from the start given that the driver wasn't even covered by diplomatic immunity which was pointed out after the event, if you want to get away with murder simply become a prime minister or a president then you can get away with it on a massive scale
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You might have missed this because the news today has pretty much all been coverage of the political chaos in Westminster, but...
American citizen Anne Sacoolas has pleaded guilty to killing British teenager Harry Dunn in a hit-and-run near a US military base.
US citizen Anne Sacoolas admits killing Brit teenager Harry Dunn in hit-and-run (https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-citizen-anne-sacoolas-admits-28288877)
Unfortunately she's only pleaded guilty to "careless driving" rather than "dangerous driving" (a more serious charge) and, given that she appeared by video link, there's still no guarantee that she will show up for sentencing, so it's not the best result for the family :(
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The judge has said she must come back to the UK for sentencing, but we all know that's not going to happen. She'll probably get a suspended sentence at most, which is pointless as she's not likely to return here. You get the impression that the deal has already been done between the UK and US governments. Something must be said about driving on US airbase 'villages' where they drive left hand drive cars on the right hand side of the road. So as soon as they come outside the gates they are disoriented. We in the UK are used to driving in Europe in a left hand hire car, but the USA behaves like it is the only country in the world.
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The judge has said she must come back to the UK for sentencing, but we all know that's not going to happen. She'll probably get a suspended sentence at most, which is pointless as she's not likely to return here. You get the impression that the deal has already been done between the UK and US governments. Something must be said about driving on US airbase 'villages' where they drive left hand drive cars on the right hand side of the road. So as soon as they come outside the gates they are disoriented. We in the UK are used to driving in Europe in a left hand hire car, but the USA behaves like it is the only country in the world.
It's more common than you would think, to be fair.
I work on an industrial estate which has a road in and a road out, side by side but divided with a security hut to control traffic.
The amount of times I have gone to leave the estate but a European has gone to drive into my Exit lane is far too many for my liking. I've even looked right before turning left then had cars flying past me on the wrong side of the road that I've spotted just in time.
So although due care and attention should be the main aim, I can also see how easy it can be to forget if you are so used to driving on a different side of the road. It's not an instant thing, it must take your brain time to adjust.
I've never ridden a bike abroad, and just the thought of confusion does horrify me to be truthful.
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I travel to France regularly and occasionally pull out on the wrong side of the road when i am there, or in the UK after I return.
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When driving abroad for the first time, wearing your watch on the right wrist is a quick reminder of what side of the road you should be on. On a bike, something like a strip of bright coloured tape on the right mirror stem, could have the same benefit.
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I travel to France regularly and occasionally pull out on the wrong side of the road when i am there, or in the UK after I return.
It's nobody's "fault", you just get used to doing something one way and it takes time to adjust if you suddenly need to reverse everything you've taught yourself to do as naturally as possible.
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Different sides of driving in different countries are among the clearest examples of how stupid human race is.
I think left side makes more sense (most people get on-off bikes and horses from that side), but right is not too bad either, as long as one standard is set globally.
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I think left side makes more sense (most people get on-off bikes and horses from that side), but right is not too bad either, as long as one standard is set globally.
The British rode horses on the left, because it allowed the rider to wield a sword with their right hand. We exported this to the British Empire and many of those countries still follow our practice.
The Americans used the right hand side because, when they used wagons for transport, the driver would sit on the left such that, if two wagons were passing each other, the drivers could easily look down to their left and check the wheels weren't going to clash. Also they would sit on the left rear horse, because that meant that they could use the driving whip on the horses on the left or the right of the team without having to reach across.
Supposedly Europe drives on the right because Napoleon was left handed, so he made everyone else follow him after he conquered much of Europe, but there's no actual documentary proof of this.
The last European country to change from left to right was Iceland in 1968. These days it would be prohibitively expensive to change over a modern, industrialised country from left to right hand traffic.
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It's nobody's "fault", you just get used to doing something one way and it takes time to adjust if you suddenly need to reverse everything you've taught yourself to do as naturally as possible.
That's probably why both sides settled on 'careless driving' rather than 'dangerous'. Dangerous requires intent to break the law, such as speeding or crossing a solid white line. All that matters is whether Harry's family are content with the verdict, and they seem to be.
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Different sides of driving in different countries are among the clearest examples of how stupid human race is.
I think left side makes more sense (most people get on-off bikes and horses from that side), but right is not too bad either, as long as one standard is set globally.
So you're that one sitting on the fence wondering whether or not to jump on the horse ;)
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I think left side makes more sense (most people get on-off bikes and horses from that side), but right is not too bad either, as long as one standard is set globally.
The British rode horses on the left, because it allowed the rider to wield a sword with their right hand. We exported this to the British Empire and many of those countries still follow our practice.
The Americans used the right hand side because, when they used wagons for transport, the driver would sit on the left such that, if two wagons were passing each other, the drivers could easily look down to their left and check the wheels weren't going to clash. Also they would sit on the left rear horse, because that meant that they could use the driving whip on the horses on the left or the right of the team without having to reach across.
Supposedly Europe drives on the right because Napoleon was left handed, so he made everyone else follow him after he conquered much of Europe, but there's no actual documentary proof of this.
The last European country to change from left to right was Iceland in 1968. These days it would be prohibitively expensive to change over a modern, industrialised country from left to right hand traffic.
Much cheaper to tape a pointy arrow to the windscreen (childhood memory) :)
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I think left side makes more sense (most people get on-off bikes and horses from that side), but right is not too bad either, as long as one standard is set globally.
The British rode horses on the left, because it allowed the rider to wield a sword with their right hand. We exported this to the British Empire and many of those countries still follow our practice.
The Americans used the right hand side because, when they used wagons for transport, the driver would sit on the left such that, if two wagons were passing each other, the drivers could easily look down to their left and check the wheels weren't going to clash. Also they would sit on the left rear horse, because that meant that they could use the driving whip on the horses on the left or the right of the team without having to reach across.
Supposedly Europe drives on the right because Napoleon was left handed, so he made everyone else follow him after he conquered much of Europe, but there's no actual documentary proof of this.
The last European country to change from left to right was Iceland in 1968. These days it would be prohibitively expensive to change over a modern, industrialised country from left to right hand traffic.
A more in-depth explanation....
https://www.worldstandards.eu/cars/driving-on-the-left/
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We can see where this is heading.....
Now ignoring the judge's direction to appear in person. The one-way 'special relationship'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-63871733 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-63871733)
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8 months prison, suspended for 12 months!
And strangely his family are happy with that "result"?
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It's a bit pointless as she's unlikely to commit another crime in the UK. On the other hand it is a conviction and technically a prison term, which will stop her getting visas for some countries.
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It's a bit pointless as she's unlikely to commit another crime in the UK. On the other hand it is a conviction and technically a prison term, which will stop her getting visas for some countries.
That was my thought too but travelling on a diplomatic passport gets around all of that.
On the plus side, she is unlikely to ever darken these shores again.
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And strangely his family are happy with that "result"?
I think, at this point, they're happy just to get *any* result :(
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As much as it pains me to say it, this still was a tragic accident. Yes, things could've been done to prevent it in hindsight, but that simple theory applies to all accidents.
There are no winners here, a life has been lost and everyone involved would've just preferred that none of it had ever happened.
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As much as it pains me to say it, this still was a tragic accident. Yes, things could've been done to prevent it in hindsight
Cars on US Military Bases in the UK drive on the right. This has been a known issue for many years, yet still nothing has been done about it.
There have been other incidents, fortunately none of them have resulted in deaths, but it was only a matter of time...
Wrong-side drivers near air base used by American forces worry UK police (https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2020/01/19/wrong-side-drivers-near-air-base-used-by-american-forces-worry-uk-police/)
LONDON — A British police chief requested an urgent meeting with a U.S. military commander Saturday after learning of two more traffic incidents in the area where a teenage motorcyclist died in a collision with a car driven by an American diplomat's wife.
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I dont believe that the "special relationship" is any longer meaningful, and that the US has treated the whole matter in a contemptuous manner
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Cars on US Military Bases in the UK drive on the right. This has been a known issue for many years, yet still nothing has been done about it.
That's what I thought, but apparently not https://www.quora.com/When-actually-on-a-US-base-in-the-United-Kingdom-such-as-Croughton-do-personnel-drive-on-the-left-or-right-of-the-road (https://www.quora.com/When-actually-on-a-US-base-in-the-United-Kingdom-such-as-Croughton-do-personnel-drive-on-the-left-or-right-of-the-road)
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That's what I thought, but apparently not
Ok, then I've been misinformed.
There again, my Brother in Law gets sent all over the world by his work and once came back from a long trip in the USA.
We got in the car, he started to drive off and my sister yelped "We drive on the left here!" :eek
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I think that's the point. US staff being 'allowed out' with insufficient preparation.