Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: FazedBr on 14 June 2020, 02:32:41 pm
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Hi, I recently got an FZS600, returning to bikes after a decade or so off them.
I have noticed a ticking noise, I know there is a certain amount of noise as part of the character but it's been too long to remember exactly what that sounds like, bike only showing 17k miles so has been sat around a while in its life (1999 model).
Appreciate thoughts on this, videos below, sounds worse on videos but guess that helps identify things. Thanks
Engine cold
https://youtu.be/YuHcuMfyFCY (https://youtu.be/YuHcuMfyFCY)
Engine Hot after 45 mins riding
https://youtu.be/sJN18c5Qcl0 (https://youtu.be/sJN18c5Qcl0)
Hopefully I've posted this in the right place.
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Try the long screwdriver or rod trick. One end to your ear and place the other end at various points on the engine. You will soon find out where it's coming from.
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Thanks, I'll try that. Does it sound like any likely points to start trying or just go around in general? Was reading cam tensioner is a common problem on these.
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Camchain tensioner is not a common problem. They do stick a little sometimes. Do not consider fitting a manual one. This is a real bodge job that tends to hid other issues.
How many miles has it done since it started "ticking"? If not many, or you dont know, just keep riding, the tensioner should click out to the next step soon.More readily if you give it a good italian tune up occasionally.
Has it had regular oil changes? If not, give it a flush and change the oil as gunky oil can make the tensioner stick
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I've only had it 300 miles, can't be sure i just missed it when I bought it is the problem there. I've read a few things here about resetting the cam tensioner, sometimes they get stuck but they can also be noisy when near the next notch, etc. Not sure if that's the sound it makes or if something else underlying?
I tried the screwdriver to ear and does sound much louder in the cam chain location but also assume this would be normal given it is in the middle of the action. The more I focus on it the more it's coming from the top of the block rather than things around it, so valves, cam chain, etc.
As the bike is new to me, I'm planning on changing out the filters, oil, check valve clearances, etc. While there was going to reset the tensioner, given the location easier while tank is off and can move the carbs out of the way. Honestly was considering a manual tensioner, I see some people swear by them.
Is flushing common, I've always been put off by horror stories of causing more damage than good by it. But then it's done 5.5k miles since 2006 (600 since 2017) and thinking there could be some build up with all the start/stop.
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I've only had it 300 miles, can't be sure i just missed it when I bought it is the problem there. I've read a few things here about resetting the cam tensioner, sometimes they get stuck but they can also be noisy when near the next notch, etc. Not sure if that's the sound it makes or if something else underlying?
I tried the screwdriver to ear and does sound much louder in the cam chain location but also assume this would be normal given it is in the middle of the action. The more I focus on it the more it's coming from the top of the block rather than things around it, so valves, cam chain, etc.
As the bike is new to me, I'm planning on changing out the filters, oil, check valve clearances, etc. While there was going to reset the tensioner, given the location easier while tank is off and can move the carbs out of the way. Honestly was considering a manual tensioner, I see some people swear by them.
Is flushing common, I've always been put off by horror stories of causing more damage than good by it. But then it's done 5.5k miles since 2006 (600 since 2017) and thinking there could be some build up with all the start/stop.
Flushing oil is not something i would do, just change the oil within spec and everything should be good. Recommendation is every 6000 miles, but i always do mine between 4 or 5000. Try not to get mugged off with mega expensive oil either, because it all has to be of a certain grade anyway.
Depending on your riding style, or journeys, will determine how quick the tensioner forwards another click. So it could be months if you take things easy.
After you have put new oil in, with the bike on the centre stand, start the engine for 30 seconds then switch off and let it settle, this will then be your correct level.
You really want the oil to be towards the upper level of the window markings.
Been using this brand of oil for years now, it's absolutely fine and a decent reasonable price.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10W-40-Motorcycle-Oil-4-Stroke-JASO-MA2-10W40-5L-Westway-Lubricants/111704165494?hash=item1a02164c76:g:0gUAAOSwY-Ndpcxy (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10W-40-Motorcycle-Oil-4-Stroke-JASO-MA2-10W40-5L-Westway-Lubricants/111704165494?hash=item1a02164c76:g:0gUAAOSwY-Ndpcxy)
I actually use the fully synthetic version, but that's a personal choice thing. Either will work fine though, just don't mix them.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10W-40-Synthetic-Motorcycle-Oil-4-Stroke-JASO-MA2-10W40-5L-Westway-Lubricants/111838861309?hash=item1a0a1d97fd:g:fpoAAOSw-v5dvFtp (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10W-40-Synthetic-Motorcycle-Oil-4-Stroke-JASO-MA2-10W40-5L-Westway-Lubricants/111838861309?hash=item1a0a1d97fd:g:fpoAAOSw-v5dvFtp)
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I would hazard a guess that it would benefit from a carb balance to make it sound a little less clattery as well, but all in good time.
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Noted, it is running a bit rough, wonder how much noise would settle with that done. Was thinking of getting a carbtune, are they worth the extra to some of the cheaper ones around? I don't like to buy too cheap though, like my tools to last :D .
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Noted, it is running a bit rough, wonder how much noise would settle with that done. Was thinking of getting a carbtune, are they worth the extra to some of the cheaper ones around? I don't like to buy too cheap though, like my tools to last :D .
I have the Carb Tune, does the job perfectly, once you get familiar with where the adjustment screws are on the carbs. You will need an extra long screwdriver to get to one of them though.
http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,91.0.html (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php/topic,91.0.html)
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Thanks for the feedback and that link, that's very useful to have! Plus I know I'll need a long enough screwdriver before it's in bits :rollin
Just trying to keep budget realistic. Figure it's one of those 'investment' type tools and will pay itself back. £90 on ebay for the 4 column new.
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Matter of interest, why do you chose the fully synthetic when semi is spec'd? Quite happy to pay the extra if it treats the engine better.
Regards riding style, I try not to be too much of a demon but sometimes it just wants to go.....it's not my main form of transport, when it comes out will be for an hour minimum so will be up to temperature and will involve a little spirited riding in dry conditions unless I get caught out.
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Matter of interest, why do you chose the fully synthetic when semi is spec'd? Quite happy to pay the extra if it treats the engine better.
Regards riding style, I try not to be too much of a demon but sometimes it just wants to go.....it's not my main form of transport, when it comes out will be for an hour minimum so will be up to temperature and will involve a little spirited riding in dry conditions unless I get caught out.
After doing a bit of research fully synthetic is supposed to offer better protection and performance over semi synthetic, and i'd seen on here that other people use it as well, so i just thought i'd give it a go.
It does the job okay so i just stuck with it.
Because i change my oil earlier than recommended it probably makes little difference, but like i said the brand that i use is a decent price and years ago it was me that decided to be the guinea pig to try it out and i've never looked back.
I personally change the oil filter every time i do an oil change as well. Some will do it every 2 changes, but for the price it just seems worth doing to me. My bike is my only transport so i look after it as much as i can.
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Fazers love to rev if you don't rev them on a regular bases the tensioner doesn't get the prod it requires to move up a tooth. Just take it out find a dual carriageway or motorway, once warmed up let the engine rev to almost red line in the lower gears 2-3. It will sort out the tensioner issue, it may take a few goes but if the noise is the tensioner is will stop. Fazer don't have issues with their tensioner's, the auto is fine sometimes a reset or most often then not the above will sort it.
From what your saying regarding the rough it could just need a nice balancing and a good run. As for oil quality semi is perfectly adequate, fully semi is IMHO a waste of money, it's your choice.
Fazers are one of the most reliable bike ever made, most issues are down to owners and stearlers not servicing them correctly at the right time, or owners mucking about with them.
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Fazers love to rev if you don't rev them on a regular bases the tensioner doesn't get the prod it requires to move up a tooth. Just take it out find a dual carriageway or motorway, once warmed up let the engine rev to almost red line in the lower gears 2-3. It will sort out the tensioner issue, it may take a few goes but if the noise is the tensioner is will stop. Fazer don't have issues with their tensioner's, the auto is fine sometimes a reset or most often then not the above will sort it.
From what your saying regarding the rough it could just need a nice balancing and a good run. As for oil quality semi is perfectly adequate, fully semi is IMHO a waste of money, it's your choice.
Fazers are one of the most reliable bike ever made, most issues are down to owners and stearlers not servicing them correctly at the right time, or owners mucking about with them.
Don't think an extra £2 over 6000 miles will really break the bank :lol
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Can afford more frequent changes and the filters at the difference in cost between that and silkolene or similar which I was looking at. The fact it's your main transport is good test for it.
I'll be changing spark plugs, filters and oil very soon as its a new bike to me so peace of mind, apparently was last serviced last year so an annual would be worthwhile imo. While I'm in there I will spray some carb cleaner through while running and reset the tensioner. See what it sounds like, then give it some 2-3 gear fun to clear once warmed up. May check valve clearances if feeling brave (not done that before but doesn't look too bad).
Silencer needs replacing due to small leak I've discovered so that will be done shortly, good time then to balance the carbs I'm thinking.
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Can afford more frequent changes and the filters at the difference in cost between that and silkolene or similar which I was looking at. The fact it's your main transport is good test for it.
I'll be changing spark plugs, filters and oil very soon as its a new bike to me so peace of mind, apparently was last serviced last year so an annual would be worthwhile imo. While I'm in there I will spray some carb cleaner through while running and reset the tensioner. See what it sounds like, then give it some 2-3 gear fun to clear once warmed up. May check valve clearances if feeling brave (not done that before but doesn't look too bad).
Silencer needs replacing due to small leak I've discovered so that will be done shortly, good time then to balance the carbs I'm thinking.
Again, it's perfectly up to you, but me, and a few others, would recommend Iridium plugs over standard.
They will definitely last longer, perform better and are only a few quid each more.
I'm also a big fan of the K&N air filter as well. They're a bit more expensive, but it'll be the last one you buy for the bike so it does make economic sense.
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Oil and filter, fuel filter and spark plugs all changed went with iridium and the Westway oil which seems good quality. Was told when purchased that the guy serviced the bike last year, the state of the oil (bearing in mind the few miles it's done in last 4 years) and rusty spark plugs with grit on the threads :eek made me think otherwise. Air filter looked pretty new so left that in. New silencer ordered but doesn't fit straight on due to the aftermarket stainless downpipes, needs a straight coupler then will balance carbs.
It's had 100 miles of Cotswold A and B roads today to help that oil get round and see if could shift a notch on the cam tensioner, feels a lot better for the oil.
The noise hasn't disappeared but I believe is a lot clearer with the new oil. It doesn't seem to change with the revs or clutch in like most noise complaints appear to. When riding it's barely noticeable, likely due to other noises covering it. It's idle or low speed with clutch pulled to quieten the engine when it comes out. More of a rattle than a tapping now. Doesn't seem to be consistent with the engine timing, like something is loose but can't find anything external but will inspect further.
Assume the cam chain noise would disappear with revs so I'm tempted to rule that out. Any ideas?
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Oil and filter, fuel filter and spark plugs all changed went with iridium and the Westway oil which seems good quality.
I've never heard of them, quick look at their website and they would appear to be just disturbers and rebranders, not refiners i.e. they approach a refiner and repackage one of their range of products, a bit like supermarkets own brand. Supermakets don't make beans, soup, cornflakes even oil etc, what the do is repackage basic product and sell it cheaper. Oil is all made to a minimum standard e.g. API, JASO etc. What well know refiners Shell, Mobile, Fucus etc do is exceed those standards and add better additives. As long as the oil is made to a API etc it will do what it's supposed to, just.
Was told when purchased that the guy serviced the bike last year, the state of the oil (bearing in mind the few miles it's done in last 4 years) and rusty spark plugs with grit on the threads :eek made me think otherwise.
Rusty plugs and grit in the plug wells is normal, obviously if there very rusty and the electrode is badly worn they've been in a good while. The electrode condition is far better guide as to the age of a plug than the outside.
The noise hasn't disappeared but I believe is a lot clearer with the new oil. It doesn't seem to change with the revs or clutch in like most noise complaints appear to. When riding it's barely noticeable, likely due to other noises covering it. It's idle or low speed with clutch pulled to quieten the engine when it comes out. More of a rattle than a tapping now. Doesn't seem to be consistent with the engine timing, like something is loose but can't find anything external but will inspect further.
Carb inbalance and/or incorrect idle jet setting/s will give you very similar noises.
Assume the cam chain noise would disappear with revs so I'm tempted to rule that out.
If the cam chain is the issue the noise will increase as the revs rise.
Any ideas?
Wait until you've balanced the carbs and don't forget to reset the air mixture screws.
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Oil and filter, fuel filter and spark plugs all changed went with iridium and the Westway oil which seems good quality.
I've never heard of them, quick look at their website and they would appear to be just disturbers and rebranders, not refiners i.e. they approach a refiner and repackage one of their range of products, a bit like supermarkets own brand. Supermakets don't make beans, soup, cornflakes even oil etc, what the do is repackage basic product and sell it cheaper. Oil is all made to a minimum standard e.g. API, JASO etc. What well know refiners Shell, Mobile, Fucus etc do is exceed those standards and add better additives. As long as the oil is made to a API etc it will do what it's supposed to, just.
Was told when purchased that the guy serviced the bike last year, the state of the oil (bearing in mind the few miles it's done in last 4 years) and rusty spark plugs with grit on the threads :eek made me think otherwise.
Rusty plugs and grit in the plug wells is normal, obviously if there very rusty and the electrode is badly worn they've been in a good while. The electrode condition is far better guide as to the age of a plug than the outside.
The noise hasn't disappeared but I believe is a lot clearer with the new oil. It doesn't seem to change with the revs or clutch in like most noise complaints appear to. When riding it's barely noticeable, likely due to other noises covering it. It's idle or low speed with clutch pulled to quieten the engine when it comes out. More of a rattle than a tapping now. Doesn't seem to be consistent with the engine timing, like something is loose but can't find anything external but will inspect further.
Carb inbalance and/or incorrect idle jet setting/s will give you very similar noises.
Assume the cam chain noise would disappear with revs so I'm tempted to rule that out.
If the cam chain is the issue the noise will increase as the revs rise.
Any ideas?
Wait until you've balanced the carbs and don't forget to reset the air mixture screws.
"...As long as the oil is made to a API etc it will do what it's supposed to, just..."
Gnasher, what is with all this "just"?
It's up to spec oil, that i've been using for years in my 20 year old bike with zero issues.
Paying 50%+ more money for oil will do NOTHING to improve the running of it, because as you, and me, have already mentioned, it's up to spec.
And me spending that massive £2 extra for fully synthetic oil is because fully is known to have better longevity, so technically better performance over time. The fact i change my oil (my choice) earlier than normal kind of makes this irrelevant but i'm very happy to do that.
So rather than picking holes in what i've found to be a perfectly good engine lubricant at a very good price for everyone, why not just accept it as being okay to use, even more so as it has been tried and tested for years by me? Believe me if i thought for one second there was anything wrong about it i would be the first to tell people to completely avoid it, but in this case it's the complete opposite. :)
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Thanks for the feedback.
Early signs is the oil has had a positive difference as I'm sure most will, time will tell but happy with it for now. Darrsi has used it for some time so that's good credit. Overall the bike is running a lot better for the bits changed out.
Was annoyed the exhaust didn't just bolt on and couldn't get the carb balance done on Saturday. They are so close, 43mm and 44.5mm which don't quite slip together. I'm hoping a 44.5mm straight coupler will do it with compression but may need to pad the smaller end with something heat proof.
I'm writing off the cam chain for now, I'm hoping the carb sync solves it! Picked up a Carbtune and useful guide mentioned above so ready to go.
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Thanks for the feedback.
Early signs is the oil has had a positive difference as I'm sure most will, time will tell but happy with it for now. Darrsi has used it for some time so that's good credit. Overall the bike is running a lot better for the bits changed out.
Was annoyed the exhaust didn't just bolt on and couldn't get the carb balance done on Saturday. They are so close, 43mm and 44.5mm which don't quite slip together. I'm hoping a 44.5mm straight coupler will do it with compression but may need to pad the smaller end with something heat proof.
I'm writing off the cam chain for now, I'm hoping the carb sync solves it! Picked up a Carbtune and useful guide mentioned above so ready to go.
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Thanks, came out a little small that :rollin . Forum newbie, what can I say.
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Thanks, came out a little small that :rollin . Forum newbie, what can I say.
Happens a lot, it is rather annoying.
Easy to correct on a laptop though, if you "Modify" your post, highlight all the words, then adjust the font size to 10pt it sorts it all out.
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So rather than picking holes in what i've found to be a perfectly good engine lubricant at a very good price for everyone, why not just accept it as being okay to use, even more so as it has been tried and tested for years by me? Believe me if i thought for one second there was anything wrong about it i would be the first to tell people to completely avoid it, but in this case it's the complete opposite. :)
I'm not picking holes in anything fella, stating fact. I've not said don't use it, the opposite. As you've got the right to suggest particular oils, I and others have the right to suggest something else, you're being defensive for some reason and that's a matter for you. The oil mentioned is in spec and it will be just, that's why it cost less and yes it will do the a perfectly acceptable job. Higher quality oils will perform better, they don't generally discolour as fast, they drain out better and because they use better, extra and different additives they perform better, i.e. resist heat, carbonation, film and tear strength, etc etc.
I think you said you use fully synth, if you use Westway fully synth 10w40 4T oil it's API SL rated and is the lowest (just) spec for that type of oil, I would recommend is SN, higher and later spec rating giving you better performance as outlined above. That doesn't mean SL is bad, it's not, but SN performs better.
If you want use a particular oil that's cheaper because you regard value for money, over performance, that's your choice. It's the same with things like tyres, pads, chains etc etc, you buy to suit your budget and needs, as long as you happy, that's all that matters. ;)
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So rather than picking holes in what i've found to be a perfectly good engine lubricant at a very good price for everyone, why not just accept it as being okay to use, even more so as it has been tried and tested for years by me? Believe me if i thought for one second there was anything wrong about it i would be the first to tell people to completely avoid it, but in this case it's the complete opposite. :)
I'm not picking holes in anything fella, stating fact. I've not said don't use it, the opposite. As you've got the right to suggest particular oils, I and others have the right to suggest something else, you're being defensive for some reason and that's a matter for you. The oil mentioned is in spec and it will be just, that's why it cost less and yes it will do the a perfectly acceptable job. Higher quality oils will perform better, they don't generally discolour as fast, they drain out better and because they use better, extra and different additives they perform better, i.e. resist heat, carbonation, film and tear strength, etc etc.
I think you said you use fully synth, if you use Westway fully synth 10w40 4T oil it's API SL rated and is the lowest (just) spec for that type of oil, I would recommend is SN, higher and later spec rating giving you better performance as outlined above. That doesn't mean SL is bad, it's not, but SN performs better.
If you want use a particular oil that's cheaper because you regard value for money, over performance, that's your choice. It's the same with things like tyres, pads, chains etc etc, you buy to suit your budget and needs, as long as you happy, that's all that matters. ;)
I'm just not sure how much performance you can really expect to get out of more expensive oil on a 20 year old bike?
As long as it's changed regularly and you generally look after your bike then I really cannot see a benefit, unless you are maybe racing it or constantly thrashing it which the majority of people are not.
Even though I said I'd happily try it out in my bike as the Guinea pig, i also did research, read reviews and the company selling it had 100% positive feedback, and still has 100% feedback after over 61,000 sales. That alone is a good sign.
Now, 4 or 5 years later, I still use it and it still works just fine with zero complaints from me.
Try it yourself if you don't believe me, you might even save a few quid in the process. :lol
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Try it yourself if you don't believe me, you might even save a few quid in the process. :lol
Thanks but no thanks, I'll not recommend this oil to anyone, you fill your boots ;)
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Carbs balanced, improved response and sound, especially with the new silencer.
Still some rattle noise, tried hitting the kill switch when moving to check if it wasn't engine related and something tapping the frame. The noise goes with the engine off so either it is a component or something being vibrated by the engine running.
I'm not sure the fuel pump is behaving as it should. It seems to prime for longer than I would expect, if I haven't started the bike on half hour it will repeat a loud clicking for a couple of seconds, if I leave overnight this can last 5-10 seconds but I didn't use the bike for near a week and it went on for maybe 20 seconds of clicking. When engine is running it doesn't struggle for fuel so seems to work, but then understand a fuel pump impeller can create a rattle if faulty so may link. Also, had the tank near empty (nothing registering on the gauge) when I went out earlier, I'm convinced the sound was louder but it didn't go instantly when filled up, by the time I got back the engine was hot and the noise had gone.
Also, oil level. Left the bike and oil level went above the sight glass, took for a short run but enough to get engine hot, next day just under the max line again. Not sure why oil level would fluctuate up and down without adding or removing any.
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Just to cross it off the list I would check that no fuel pipe is kinked in any way under the tank.
Also make sure the tap is switched fully on.
Oil level should be checked after running the engine for a minute then switching off and let it quickly settle.
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No kinks, checked that when I balanced the carbs, all looks fine. Also, put some carb cleaner through the air box.
Wonder how much of this is due to old fuel, etc which may have been stagnant in the bike. I've gone through a full tank and a bit since i've had it and I've literally done more on it in three weeks than the last three years have seen. Keep using it and may shift it, or try some additive maybe.
But then the more I look in to things the more potentials I find. The exhaust header plates were obviously overtightened for the middle two and have cracks in them, can't feel any air escaping in the short time it takes for them to get to hot to check, but that's something else which makes a ticking noise which is s
I'm conscious of keeping throwing money at it and there being an underlying issue.
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Regarding the fuel, have you checked the tank air vent is clear? If it wasn't it might struggle at first to pump the fuel if it can't breathe properly?
Next time you start the bike from cold, carefully try starting it with the fuel cap opened and see if the pump works more efficiently.
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I'll get some compressed air and check the Hoses, will need to let the fuel level drop to ensure the tank connections aren't blocked... Mines 99 so has the hoses from the base, they changed around 2000 I believe.
I'll check the cap open. Starting isn't really a problem, give it a little throttle but nothing I'd consider a problem. It's just the amount of clicking, seems abnormal.
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Sorry this has taken so long, work has been manic.
The fuel pump behaviour has changed, clicks loudly for longer :rolleyes , filler open or closed it does the same. I switch the ignition on and the pump runs (great, if loud), if I turn off and back on several times it repeats the process for the same length of time roughly every time. My understanding of the operation is that it works on pressure and shouldn't lose it that quickly. When I first got the bike it would click a couple of times each time turned the ignition on (shorter when warm or had not long before primed) as I would expect, not sure why it's doing this now. It is quite loud, video: https://youtu.be/vI0JQTH54Bk. Bike runs fine but don't want to get stranded with a dead pump. Any ideas?
As far as engine is concerned, took it to a mechanic for a listen today, said it was likely the cam chain (https://youtu.be/l4SvuQYGRm4), Suggested loosening the two mounting bolts on the tensioner until clicks on the auto rachet, then wind the mounts back in. Not heard of this method before but would be easier than removing everything to get to it! Any thoughts on this?
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Sorry this has taken so long, work has been manic.
The fuel pump behaviour has changed, clicks loudly for longer :rolleyes , filler open or closed it does the same. I switch the ignition on and the pump runs (great, if loud), if I turn off and back on several times it repeats the process for the same length of time roughly every time. My understanding of the operation is that it works on pressure and shouldn't lose it that quickly. When I first got the bike it would click a couple of times each time turned the ignition on (shorter when warm or had not long before primed) as I would expect, not sure why it's doing this now. It is quite loud, video: https://youtu.be/vI0JQTH54Bk (https://youtu.be/vI0JQTH54Bk). Bike runs fine but don't want to get stranded with a dead pump. Any ideas?
It's sounds to me as if your pump has had it's day and is indeed not holding pressure.
As far as engine is concerned, took it to a mechanic for a listen today, said it was likely the cam chain (https://youtu.be/l4SvuQYGRm4 (https://youtu.be/l4SvuQYGRm4)), Suggested loosening the two mounting bolts on the tensioner until clicks on the auto rachet, then wind the mounts back in. Not heard of this method before but would be easier than removing everything to get to it! Any thoughts on this?
Don't do this, you run a high risk of over tensioning and that will bugger the chain and the blades. Now I'm saying this chap is trying a fast one and he could be right but it's very common practice, they tell you it's your cam chain and it's not. They know it charge you for the work and all the do is take the cam cover off, reset the tensioner, reset the air mixture screws and balance the carbs. Job done and you're a good few £100 light.
How many miles as the bike done? Cam chains on Fazers are good for 70k easy I look after one with 85k still on original cam chain. Fazer's do make cam chain noises when the carbs and mixture screws are out and they can the tensioner can get stuck between teeth. Get the crabs balanced first (not be this chap) then take it out an and reset it as per the manual, or put it in second gear and turn the rear wheel backwards by hand.
If none of that works it's very likely it's the cam chain.
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Thanks for the info Gnasher. New pump it is then, figure the relay is doing what it should as bike is running. Didn't realise the pump itself lost pressure, thought it may be somewhere else but there are no leaks.
The bike is showing 17k so wouldn't expect a new chain, may just be waiting for the next click, I don't know but it is frustrating and would like to confirm it's nothing else I should be concerned about. MOTs back to 2006 fit the mileage so think it's legit, it's done 500 miles over the last 3 years and 4000 over the last 9 years by the paperwork.
I'm pretty sure the rattle while riding is getting worse but the fuel pump is also getting worse at startup, hopefully they may be one in the same thing.
I'm a long time off bikes until recently, getting back in to it now so don't have a trusted mechanic, the guy I took it to seems to have a good reputation locally.
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17k I'd say there's almost no chance of it being the cam chain and he should know that, sadly he's smelling money. I wouldn't use him again find someone else would be my advice.
Most Fazer's suffer the tensioner issue because they aren't revved enough, the engine likes revs, once warm give them plenty say like 8k 10k in second a few times a week. Just reset the tensioner as per the manual there's a link on here somewhere.
Get the crabs properly balanced and I think you're find the noise will go. You also mention a rattle, another big issue with boxeye Fazer's is the front indicators rattle in the firing mounts, because the foam that's supposed to stop it, is too thin and it degrades. A The best fix is to use silicone, nice neat dollop around the inner interface and that will stop them rattling once set. Next check the drive chain, Fazer's are very sensitive to over tight chains and wheel alignment. You want about between 40 -45mm of play when the chain is pushed/pulled, forget the marks in the swing arm. Measure from the centre of the wheel spindle to the edge of the swingarm where the drive chain puller plate interfaces with the swingarm.
Good luck let us know how you get on.
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noise sounds very much like tensioner, personally i wouldnt worry too much it will click on. also it looks like you still have original ht leads, they could be arcing which makes similar noise but you would probably notice when running, but either way get some ngk ones because they will fail soon. if you havent got your carbtune yet then get it from official website, cheaper than ebay and you know your getting a real one. http://www.carbtune.co.uk/ (http://www.carbtune.co.uk/)
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The guy didn't ask the mileage, just listened to it so guess could give him the benefit of the doubt, but you may be right, I need to find a reputable local mechanic. Was trying to avoid taking the carbs, etc out to get to the tensioner but it seems that's not possible especially with my hands. Been giving it some revs since I've had it, it's not in daily use, but most weekends this time of year it will get some use. Perhaps see how it goes over the next few hundred miles and if it doesn't shift I'll get the tensioner off and check it.
Interesting you say about the indicators, didn't know that, will be done this weekend, got some black silicone in the garage. The chain alignment marks are not accurate then, I'll check that, shouldn't be out as chain and sprockets were recent when I bought it but best to check.
Had the carbtune on it today, TPS was also out. At idle it's around 180 mark, had to take it up to about 2.5k revs to get in the 230-250 range. [size=78%]
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I'd say the HT leads are originals, I replaced the spark plugs only a few weeks ago but original leads. Assume the NGK caps have the same connection, not sure the official name but no screw cap? Else I'm stuck there, threw the tops away :eek .
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Answered the spark plug cap question, quite cheap so may be worth doing while sorting the fuel pump out.
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Interesting you say about the indicators, didn't know that, will be done this weekend, got some black silicone in the garage. The chain alignment marks are not accurate then, I'll check that, shouldn't be out as chain and sprockets were recent when I bought it but best to check.
If whoever replaced it may have used the marks if so it's likely it will be out and mm count.
Had the carbtune on it today, TPS was also out. At idle it's around 180 mark, had to take it up to about 2.5k revs to get in the 230-250 range.
This is another big hole owners and stealers go down the TPS shouldn't be moved unless it's being replaced, once set it's a datum it doesn't move during use, so if it's not been moving it can't be out. It only works off No4, to set it, No4 must be pulling 230-250Hg if it's not at 1150- 1250rpm the air mixture screw is out, just increasing the revs will not balance them. They will be out at idle and that will give you the cam chain noise. All cylinders must be pulling 230 -250Hg at the spec revs, if not adjust the air mixture screw/s until they're, then balance 3&4, 1&2 then bring each pair into balance. Carbtunes aren't best and can be tricky to set up and use at times, but they should give you a fair result.
Once the above is done and all are pulling the spec Hg and are within 0.4Hg of each other at the spec revs, they're balanced. Now check the TPS and move it if it's out, lock it up and don't touch it again it's now a datum.
I'd say the HT leads are originals, I replaced the spark plugs only a few weeks ago but original leads. Assume the NGK caps have the same connection, not sure the official name but no screw cap? Else I'm stuck there, threw the tops away :eek .
Cracked HT caps or holed (leeking) leads will not give you cam chain rattle, the bike will tick and will run like a dog as the revs increase. To check, lift the tank, start bike turn out the lights and you'll see the aching, if you don't have a garage do it at night.
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I may leave the caps for now then, I runs fine at revs but I will do the dark test.
Understood on the carb sync, read somewhere about bringing the revs up on the intake I know that for the future. Careful what you read I guess.
Appreciate the advice, got a couple of jobs for the weekend ahead.
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I may leave the caps for now then, I runs fine at revs but I will do the dark test.
Understood on the carb sync, read somewhere about bringing the revs up on the intake I know that for the future. Careful what you read I guess.
Appreciate the advice, got a couple of jobs for the weekend ahead.
If you ever get round to changing your caps, you can get a set for no more than £12 on Ebay, you just need to choose your colour.
The code you need is NGK SD05F
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Thanks Darrsi, that code for the caps will be useful.
I think fuel pump is first priority, not running well at all today, sporadic at idle and sounding like starved at times, pump is getting noisier every day. Strangely it was pulling a high vacuum than yesterday at first and running well, my guess is the pump isn't giving a consistent performance and that's knocking everything off.
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you can bypass the pump to check for sure, its not essential but you'll just run out of fuel bit early, probably around quater tank left
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If I get chance I'll give that a go tomorrow, I've ordered a pump as it's definitely on the way out just by the noise, so may wait for that now. I've put it all back together but don't know why as not planning on riding it until that fixed. Tried looking for arching in the dark and nothing
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Quick update and a thanks for advice...
Last time I had it started on the drive it kept dropping to very low revs and back again repeatedly, as well as the fuel pump noise...not in a good place. Thought I'd check the plug caps especially after some of the last comments and yes they needing replacing. Two were showing good readings, one no reading at all and the last was bouncing around on resistance. Explains the revs dropping out. Sadly took two weeks for new caps to arrive hence the delay, they went on the evening they arrived along with a new fuel pump and it is riding well again. Albeit still noisy in my opinion.
MOT this Friday along with a good look over by local recommended mechanic, fingers crossed.