Date: 28-03-24  Time: 13:45 pm

Author Topic: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more  (Read 9251 times)

ogri48

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #50 on: 02 March 2020, 10:41:37 pm »
just done me xjr13 with silicone caps and hose clamps. cheap as chips, had no probs, and it looks ok too. Fazer had already been done with the ivans stuff

kebab19

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #51 on: 09 March 2020, 07:13:48 am »
I was thinking of reviving this thread yesterday. Was going to ask how the forks were? Got some k tech linear springs to fit in mine but still torn on doing a revalve. There seems to be no instructions available for the K tech kits despite being able to buy them.
Well, that sounds like a nice earner for them - people buy their kit then pay them again to personalise the shimstack :\ .  At least RaceTech have an online service that tells you the exact shimstack setup needed for your specified weight.
Reactive suspension near York do courses on suspension: even if you don't go on it, I suspect they'd probably setup the valves cheaper than K-Tech would.

Trebus

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #52 on: 09 March 2020, 09:14:45 am »
I might be wrong but can’t seem to find anything online. Did find the attached PDF but it’s only a small amount of info. Having researched I’m fairly comfortable that this isn’t a mammoth task and am still considering the Racetech kit. I travel to the US with work from time to time so would save a few $ with hand carrying back.


kebab19

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #53 on: 09 March 2020, 04:10:32 pm »
I don't know what level you feel comfortable working at, but IMO changing the compression valves are not overly difficult. Rebound valves are a bit more grief.  Happy to provide advice if you need it, and there's a thread online somewhere showing early FJR1300 forks, which use the exact same Racetech valve kit.

Trebus

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #54 on: 29 March 2020, 01:09:22 pm »
Managed to get some new bushes last week from K-Tech before everything got locked down. So have some of their linear springs (eBay bargain), new bushes and fresh oil to stick in over the next few weeks. Hoping for at least a better ride once done. With the uncertainty can’t really justify the spend on the revalve, but got all the bits for about £70.

Trebus

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #55 on: 11 May 2020, 04:17:41 pm »

Finally got the forks rebuilt but not yet back in the bike. Replaced both bushes and fitted the linear springs.


The lowers don't appear worn but the oil was disgusting despite a non-dismantling change last year. Gave everything a thorough clean and got a lot of shite out of the compression valves. They feel different when compressing on the garage floor so we'll see how it goes!  :rollin

Tim270

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #56 on: 14 May 2020, 12:23:21 pm »
Good luck!


For me it instantly just highlighted all the other problems I was having  :lol

Trebus

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #57 on: 14 May 2020, 12:31:29 pm »
😂 luckily I think everything else is OK. Went with the 10w oil that K Tech recommended with stock valving and the linear springs. I hope it’s not too heavy but not a major issue if they have to come out again for a lighter oil.

unfazed

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #58 on: 14 May 2020, 02:44:38 pm »
I had 7.5w in the 1000 and it handled brilliantly with great front end feel, when changing the seals last year I decided to try 10w.
It was a very bad mistake, I have just removed the forks to change back to 7.5w.
10w just made it too stiff and despite many adjustments could never get the same front end feel I had with the 7.5w.Looking forward to getting it back to the way it was.

Trebus

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #59 on: 14 May 2020, 03:16:34 pm »
Hmmmmm.
Cheers unfazed.

Which oil did you use and are you on different springs? I used some of ( I think) your advice regarding the rebound adjuster to 21 clicks before reassembly.

I actually cut and pasted a whole load of information that I gathered from various posts into a text file to use when reassembling the forks. Happy to post it if beneficial to others.

unfazed

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #60 on: 14 May 2020, 04:18:21 pm »
Motul Technosynthese 7.5w is what I am putting back into the forks.
Wilbers progressive fork springs as I ride two up a lot and also tour on the 1000. Fork legs raised 10mm up through the yolks.The silver fork version shock from the S1000rr on the rear (with a 10mm spacer to allow greater adjustment of the preload) Tyres are Metzler Sportec M7RR  Hopefully I should have it sorted by tomorrow :)

unfazed

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #61 on: 16 May 2020, 10:15:31 pm »
Forks back together yesterday, took it for a spin, Totally different bike, with the 7.5w oil in.
Front end feel is back as it was before I changed to 10w.  :woot


Tim270

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #62 on: 18 May 2020, 02:42:24 am »
Yeah im thinking of trying 5w again. Im on 10w (recommended by K-tech) but still the ride is too harsh, high speed damping is very poor, low speed is fine but the bike feels jerky around town.


So far im at 10w oil, forks 10mm drop, R6 rear shock. Settings are all near the middle of the range, preload setting 1/4 on the forks, not much preload on the rear. But I think I will get to the same point, slacking off the front, I just run into massive brake dive once the settings start to feel better.  Thinking of doing a caliper overhaul on the front and bleed them to make sure its all as good as It can be to help with the brake dive.


Im slowly backing off all settings as I ride but its still way out from where I want it to be. Every time I jump on and ride, my first sense is how jerky and unsettled the suspension is. My basic divvy is sadly a much smoother ride... I experience the 'magic carpet' feel a lot more on that, that the suspension is constantly working under me, the fazer I can feel every tiny bump/undulation and big holes are a massive bang and throw my out the seat a little...


Went through and pulled the plugs and HT leads today also, want to rule out its a ignition issue causing jerky feeling. All is fine there.


Found a few stuck links in the chain and worked those out, but cant feel much improvement.


I'd love to ride a stock one back to back with mine, to get a idea if this is the baseline, or I still have no found the issue on mine.

kebab19

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #63 on: 18 May 2020, 08:28:45 am »
Tim, reading back over this thread, you've tried pretty much everything obvious.  I take it you're not the original owner of the bike?  Wondering now if it's been involved in a minor front-end prang and only been half-repaired.  As in - are the fork stanchions are totally straight and the telescoping action is smooth at one part of the compression stroke and impaired at another?  Then when the fork rebounds you experience a similar jerkiness at some point in the suspension travel.

Unlikely I know but we have to consider all possibilities around this issue - wouldn't want you throwing a fortune at the problem just to find the forks are out-of-true....     

Trebus

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #64 on: 18 May 2020, 09:51:21 am »
I’m thinking the 10w will be too heavy having listened to the feedback. Forks are still not back in so I’ve ordered some Motul Expert light 5w which is close to Yamaha 01 oil on the Cst charts I’ve found. 15.6 for standard vs 17.9 Motul 5w. The 10w Motul is 35.9.

I think I’ll stick the 5w in and try it. If it’s too light I’ll take out an amount by volume using a syringe and bung in the equivalent of 10w therefore having somewhere in between. They’re the same oil in different weights so should be OK.

unfazed

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #65 on: 18 May 2020, 10:27:50 am »
Having tried the  5w 7.5w and 10W on the standard forks for setup and Wilbers progressive springs.I weigh about 90kg in full gear and my findings were

Oem and 5w oil is far too light and was running out of adjustment on the rebound damping
The 7.5w was and is just about perfect, plus easier to set up

The 10w was making it too stiff, especially on compression and not easy to setup. Never felt in control of the front with the 10w and some roads felt like it was chattering

My Present fork setting with 7.5w oil and the Wilbers Progressive springs
150mm Air gap
Forks legs up 10mm through yokes.
Compression: seven clicks back from max.
Rebound: six clicks back from max.
Preload: one ring showing
Laden sag: 35mm. (just one up with full tank of fuel)


Trebus

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #66 on: 18 May 2020, 07:43:08 pm »
Cheers Unfazed.

Using this calculator I can mix my oil to suit. https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html
Didn’t want to waste the new 10w so can hopefully have enough for 2 changes 😀.

unfazed

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #67 on: 18 May 2020, 09:00:10 pm »
Handy calculator.  :thumbup

Tim270

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #68 on: 28 June 2020, 10:39:05 pm »
Hello again gents!


After opinions, wanting to service the exup, took off the cover and found bottom left bolt is pretty much gone, someone has rounded it out and rusted stuck. (clearly aint been serviced in a long time  :rolleyes ) Had a go already with a torx bit and a impact driver but no luck. Ive no problem drilling bolts but this one is pretty awkward. Tempted to just to drop the headers and drop it to the machine shop to do so they can helicoil if needed. Anyone got any other tricks to try first?


Its flicked the 7k exup warning a few times intermittently, so im wondering if its not fully closing and contributing to my low rpm hunting. Noticed that exhaust lug on the right has corroded off too...





Ive already got the stainless replacements ready.


Cheers!


« Last Edit: 08 July 2020, 01:22:25 am by Tim270 »

Trebus

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #69 on: 07 July 2020, 05:54:02 pm »
Final thoughts from me on the fork situation.

To recap, my gen 1 thou hasn’t done many miles. Approx 13k. I’m 12.5 stone ish without kit.

Replaced the upper and lower bushes, 9.0Nm linear K-Tech springs and mixed some 5w and 10w Motul oil to get to 7.5w. K-tech recommendation is 10w but after hearing from a few others that it was too harsh I went with lighter. Up until today had done perhaps 40 miles fine tuning. Today did a nice run from the midlands down to the south coast, 180 miles via Cirencester and Sailsbury.  Back home tomorrow.

Initially (before today) I was not that impressed but got to say that it was one of the nicest rides I’ve had on the bike after the set up changes. The forks aren’t absolutely perfect but they are much, much better. One of the main issues I was having is the low speed reaction to bumps, feeling everything and compared to my ancient ZZR600 it was awful.

Arrived at:
9.0Nm linear springs + 7.5W Motul oil
Air gap: 145mm
Preload: 3 rings showing
Rebound: 7 clicks out
Compression: 10 clicks out

Perhaps some further optimising (I know the stock valving is crude) but I’ve now got to an acceptable feeling with the front end to go with the R6 shock.

Happy days!

I’ve had some good help from other members so hope this is useful information for somebody.

Maybe a revalve one day..... 😁


 
« Last Edit: 07 July 2020, 06:41:01 pm by Trebus »

Tim270

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Re: Fazer 1000 Suspension woes and more
« Reply #70 on: 12 July 2020, 03:48:35 pm »
Cheers for the notes Trebus,


I think I am reaching the same point as you. I had a good run today constantly adjusting,


I found best for me, was reducing R6 shock to 3 preload only, reduced rb/compression too.


Front, 0 preload, and others way soft, with 10w oil, I think you are right, 7w oil + a little preload and dial in the comp/rebound is the best compromise.


Hopefully this is my last oil change :D


Still chasing, low speed jerkniess, on the MOT front wheel braking fluctuation came up same as the rear. from having poor powder coating, the discs were not put back flush, manually skimmed them and pulsing at the levers is pretty much undetectable now. Got me thinking though, the discs were a bit of bodge (remember I had to get the rear wheel helicoiled as I found they ruined one of the rear disc threads) Im wondering if they cooked the front wheel bearings in the oven and never replaced. I cant feel anything wrong with them doing the usual checks and nothing caught my attention with the wheel off, might just replace them anyway.


After that I can only think of fueling or chain. Front fork action does not feel bent, all appears good with straight rule.