Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: slimwilly on 17 April 2013, 07:19:05 am
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Today the country says goodbye to the Iron Lady ,Margaret Thatcher,
A woman who rose to great heights doing what she believed in and won world wide respect from country leaders.
The people of the country elected her as the first lady prime minister and the people of this country loved and followed her to the extent that they re-elected her two more times.
It seems that her followers are a respectful bunch of nice people who will be saddened at her funeral and will celebrate the highs of her career,they certainly would not celebrate the death of another politician from another party or wish any hate to them or their family.
RESPECT
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Today the country says goodbye to the Iron Lady ,Margaret Thatcher,
A woman who rose to great heights doing what she believed in and won world wide respect from country leaders.
The people of the country elected her as the first lady prime minister and the people of this country loved and followed her to the extent that they re-elected her two more times.
It seems that her followers are a respectful bunch of nice people who will be saddened at her funeral and will celebrate the highs of her career,they certainly would not celebrate the death of another politician from another party or wish any hate to them or their family.
RESPECT
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+2
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I dont share the sentimentality as to many she was a very insensitive and devisive PM. But as a mark of respect to the dead I will say no more.Save that I am sick of the sycophants who heap praise on her now... but also were instrumental in her demise !!
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I dont share the sentimentality as to many she was a very insensitive and devisive PM. But as a mark of respect to the dead I will say no more.Save that I am sick of the sycophants who heap praise on her now... but also were instrumental in her demise !!
+1
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Equally so, +2 to pitt's comment.
While I think she did a lot of good, I also think she was in power too long (which is never a good thing), and there's plenty to disagree with too.
Respect for the dead.
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I dont follow politics but though she messed up badly at times :( and it is a bit over the top expense for a funeral , but atleast on a better note she took no crap from invaders scum bags n all the crap of today ....
So really what makes people think any leader since especially now is in any way better !!? ..... look at our .... sorry the rest of the worlds country now .... :rolleyes
Iron Lady or marmite lady you love her or you didnt but look to now :evil
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- 1 I will be turning my back on her as the funeral passes as a mark of disrespect
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- 1 I will be turning my back on her as the funeral passes as a mark of disrespect
Says more about you than it does about thatcher.
As rebuilt said, look to the future, and not back with 30 years of bitterness.
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Says more about you than it does about thatcher.
Well as you don't know me I find that hardly likely. Show some 'respect' for other people's opinions
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I respect your opinion to disagree with her policies etc.
I do not respect anyone who cannot respect the dead.
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I don't remember her respecting the dead on the Belgrano ?
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Cock.
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Tosser
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I respect your opinion to disagree with her policies etc.
I do not respect anyone who cannot respect the dead.
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I had no respect for her when she was alive. I afford her the same respect as she gave to poor, vulnerable or disadvantaged people and communities.
I also don't understand respecting someone simply because they've died. We all die. What makes her any different?
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:z :z :z
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I respect your opinion to disagree with her policies etc.
I do not respect anyone who cannot respect the dead.
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I also don't understand respecting someone simply because they've died. We all die. What makes her any different?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I see a funeral procession, I have a thought for the person in the box, and the people they've left behind. I don't need to know who the person was. Maybe that's a difference in how we brought up.
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To clarify, No, I don't think so much public money should be spent on her funeral. I'm not sure that her funeral arrangements should be funded anymore than any other PM's.
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I have every respect for her as much as I have for any deceased person. I admire her as our first female PM, but that's where it stops. I loath what she did, and I loathe the pomp she is now being given and the suppression of any dissent.
If she had been given a private funeral I would not have batted an eyelid. As to the people she's left behind, well her children do leave something to be desired .....
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People who judge others for having a difference of opinion are so narrow minded but that is what I come to expect from those who think they deserve respect but do nothing to gain it and will do all within their power to quash others in having their say through belittling and ostercising them.
Daz
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There's too many words in that ........ but I think I agree with you :)
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Rot in hell you bad bitch - respect is overrated!
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I think the best quote came from Ian Hislop on HIGNFY:
"They interviewed her enemies who said unpleasant things about her and then they interviewed her friends, most of whom also said unpleasant things about her."
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That was a brilliant episode, Brian Blessed is one of my favourite mental people :D
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Whilst I'm no fan of Frankie Boyle I haven't found a better comment than this one of his;
Finally, I get to wear my black suit and tap shoes together
and this is not bad either
She hasn't brought central London to a standstill like this since the Poll Tax riots
Thatchers greatest achievement? Tony Blair.
Thatchers legacy? The Scottish Parliament, and how knows perhaps an Independent Scotland.
Bye bye Thatcher Thatcher the Milk snatcher. Ding Dong the Witch is Dead!
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I do not respect anyone who cannot respect the dead.
I do not respect
Hitler
Pol Pot
Stalin
Jimmy Salville
Dead Terrorists of any kind
And quite a large number of dead people
So I guess I don't have your respect :rollin
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i hated the horrible wrinkley old bastard with a passion. i don't want any foccers respect it's just what i thought of the cow. i know lots of people that she devastated during the miners strike. i still know fathers and sons that won't even look at each other,i know families that lost their homes because of what she did. 90% of my mates worked down the pit and i will never forget the lack of respect she gave british industry and anybody who had to work for a living. burn in hell you bitch :evil
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She did more for the north/south divide than any before or since by shafting the miners and steel workers. Sheffield steel and British coal were among the best in their fields. And she got me sacked from my first job as milk monitor... We should celebrate that she was removed from power but not that she's dead. She was a right biatch but not in the same league as stalin, hitler or muggabe. Proper fucked this country up though imho, what we're reaping now is what she sowed by letting the greedy bankers off the lead, privatising the family silver and decimating industry. She's dead poor cow but she was still a right twat. I just ignored today's proceedings, neither felt the need to mourn nor celebrate.
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Wilson closed more pits than she did.
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Edward 1 v Margaret Thatcher
Who did most for Wales
Discuss :pokefun
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Wilson closed more pits than she did.
Yeah but shipyards, steelworks and timber mills among others were left alone.
I have no respect nor disrespect and have no opinion whether she's alive or dead and really don't think about it. For all it matters to me she was dead all along. The steely eyed determination, the botox face before botox was harnessed for cosmetic uses, the skirt suits and moulded hair.
Thatcher only came alive to me in spitting image.
She ruined a lot of people and destroyed many lives, and many died. Thankfully I was shielded from it. Partly through age, partly through family. I was born in '79. I only felt part of it. Good and bad. I saw enough from others to see what went and still goes on from others, both then and later.
As a small aside, Scotland hasn't voted tory since the fifties. Since then they were lucky to have any candidates above the border. Joke as much you like about the shire and blah blah blah. But the fact is she was not represented in any way up here and she allowed it to be subject to unbelievable nonsense in spite of it. Was it because no one voted for her up here that she used the whole shire as a testbed for the poll tax? Maybe she just couldn't stand sweaty socks. Who knows?!
But the fact remains she was never voted in up here and she still managed to facilitate a massive rape of the people without any remorse or regret. When people get all high and mighty about disrespect, please remember she allowed an enormous amount of poverty and social disorder to breed due to her policies and actions that has never fully been recovered from. We didn't vote her in. We got lumped with it anyway.
Thems the breaks. And now in death they (we) continue to pay. I'm not saying dance on her grave, but I'm not gonna stop them having a (often justified) moan.
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That my friends is the story of politics.
As the two threads about Margaret Thatcher will have shown politics will cause massive arguments.
There will always be at least two sides as in this case,a huge portion of the country liked the regime of the iron lady,there were of course losers,self inflicted? well this is where the arguments start,And also where the loud mouth think they can voice their opinion.As you will find supporters are much quieter.
As for falling out or pointing fingers, well that is a NO NO, no point ,it's politics.
Before you know it grown men will start falling out over this government which, as all others was voted in by the people of this country.
Soon at the next general election there will be another set of leaders, or maybe the same,,it is the choice of the country.
We all will and have go with them ,
whatever the side in power,,we should all try to stand together, you know it makes sense.
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FFS!! We've had one thread like this already, just STFU!!!
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Aye well for once I'll agree with you Tori.
I thought this subject was dead and buried with the old thread.
But what the foc;
As a small aside, Scotland hasn't voted tory since the fifties. Since then they were lucky to have any candidates above the border. Joke as much you like about the shire and blah blah blah. But the fact is she was not represented in any way up here and she allowed it to be subject to unbelievable nonsense in spite of it. Was it because no one voted for her up here that she used the whole shire as a testbed for the poll tax? Maybe she just couldn't stand sweaty socks. Who knows?!
I haven't gone back through the election results, but yes the Tory Party had a majority in Scotland in the 50's. They continued to be a strong force in Scottish politics up until Thatcher came to power. But it was a gradual decline over 4 Tory terms until they had only one Scottish MP left, which I think is still the situation today.
Of course the Tory party was dead against devolution, but the irony is that it is devolution that has saved the Tory party in Scotland. They are hardy a major political force, but PR in the Scottish parliament has delivered them a small number of MSP's, enougth to survive as a political party.
The poll tax issue is a little more complicated. Scotlands rates system had become a shambles, a complete revaluation was causing mayhem and major political problems. Legislation was simpler in Scotland, easy to get through, so The Scottish Tories invited Thatcher to launch it early in Scotland, thinking it would be popular and solve a few problems - whoops!
But really she focced so much up. She was on a mission to destroy the working class, their communities and their unions.
The thing that was so distressing about her destruction of our industry, was one, that so much of it was in good working order and economical, two, she put several 100,000 people on the dole in Scotland, shoved em on the scrapheap, she didn't give a shit, she closed industry after industry but gave no thought to what might follow, nothing.
She put over 3 million on the dole across the UK, bringing the jobless total up to between 4 and 5 million, all now on the brew. How did she pay for it? With blank cheques signed 'Scotland's oil', of which she like previous governments continued to lie to us about how much oil was under the north sea.
Roll on 18th September 2014!
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Indeed.
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Yes, perhaps belatedly we can give Thatcher something really special to be remember by.
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To those moaning about the dissenters, where the 'loud mouth think they can voice their opinion', and finding supporters are much quieter, I would suggest you don't start a thread saying 'wasn't Maggie great'.
And where you ask whether losers were self inflicted, the answer is 'no' otherwise why put the question mark in.
So, I hope the subject is now dead and buried (or possibly cremated)
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We are all entitled to our respective opinions as to whether we offer anyone respect or not. RIP.....up to you really if that floats your boat.
I must say though that the standard of some of the responses is pretty disappointing really. To compare Maggie to Stalin/Hitler etc, that is just knob behaviour. I'm sure many of you that have commented here were not born when she came into power and are making comments from heresay/others opinions rather than actually experiencing what went on. It was also very clear from the previous post that most do not have any grasp of economics whatsoever and what was actually achieved during the '80's and 90's by the Tories (and carried on by Labour).
Many lives and areas were devastated by her polices (my area especially in the NE), Some of the policies were bloody awful and very pooly delivered but how many of you who posted actually worked in factories or pits and really understand why these things happened?
How many of you have mortgages, own your own homes or have bought your council house.....these were some of the polices Maggie introduced.
RIP, I could not give a toss really but nothing worse than no-brainer or moronic comments being posted, whatever the topic.
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I must say though that the standard of some of the responses is pretty disappointing really. To compare Maggie to Stalin/Hitler etc, that is just knob behaviour.
No comparison was made :rolleyes
You missed the point by a mile :rolleyes
that comment was in reply to a comment that the dead should automatically be granted respect for the mere fact they are dead.
Respect in death, is gained from your behaviour and actions in life, much as the respect you receive in life
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Flesh, you don't have to have been born during her reign to be living with the consequences of her actions. The reason housing is so expensive is because she sold off the social stock and, aside from the few who bought their houses, the people benefiting the banks and private landlords with social tenants.
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Well I did live through her " reign"..and at first ( like new labour) it did seem a good choice for the country. TBH what was the credible alternative at the time ?..michael foot /neil kinnock.? She definitely won in on the surge of popularity maybe as much for a change and on the fact she was a woman and a leader. We all hoped for change which would help the many. Sadly as time went on the policies became more devisive, and the economic policies were crazy. Monetarism created ludicrous interest rates and the decimation of manufacturing and construction. I wont go into the politics here, just the results.The mantra of increasing interest rates to lower inflation is as daft as cutting budgets actually will reduce a deficcit. Its too blunt an instrument to cure a complex problem. Yes we all got the chance to buy our council houses etc, but it was a great gravy train where millions were missold mortgages which didnt pay off their capital, and so evidently became the decline of affordable social housing. Today we have an incredible situation where foreign cash is being used to buy up cheap houses and make them into private rentals,at sky high rates. I do wonder just what the source of that cash is ??..much comes from the indian sub continent ...
Like Blair she promised a lot but I dont feel that she has delivered any sort of promised land for Britain.As for this present government , well they ( tory) got 33% of the vote, so they are hardly a party for the majority. I despair if they get a full majority at the next election because we will see no doubt much more rampant policies which will make this government seem slightly benevolent to the masses.I predict by the next election our deficcit will still be sky high and the only cure the tories will campaign on is no doubt for more cuts !......There was actually one point in new labours reign when it did seem like this country was doing well, but it all now seems a dream !!
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This thread sounds like a load of press mongers. People who have one opinion based on there own inability to put the rest of the world in perspective.
Maggie is but only one person in this world, not the worst kind of person. There are plenty of despots dead and still living to really warrant any bad news.
Im no politician, or religious nut, but i understand that bad things happen to all good and bad people of all walks of life. Havent heard of anyone bitchin about the 3 day week we suffered because of the miners striking and conserve coal to fuel power stations because of the lack of oil (1973 Oil crisis). Unfortunately, it was Labour that reaped the benefits that came to fruition when they came to power, and everyone thought it was Labours doing. And it took Labour's 3 terms to undo that to put us in the world we are in today.
At the end of the day, we are entitled to our opinions and to be honest do you think you can make a difference to what any Govt. does?
Anyway, no one will remember us when we are gone. But they remembered Maggie RIP
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Edward 1 v Margaret Thatcher
Who did most for Wales
Discuss :pokefun
Just passed this on to my daughter who is in the final year of a medieval studies degree and she said at least Edward 1st gave us Edward the 2nd :D
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He probably gave a few people syphilis as well
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Edward 1 v Margaret Thatcher
Who did most for Wales
Discuss :pokefun
Just passed this on to my daughter who is in the final year of a medieval studies degree and she said at least Edward 1st gave us Edward the 2nd :D
:rollin :rollin :rollin
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I'm sure many of you that have commented here were not born when she came into power and are making comments from heresay/others opinions rather than actually experiencing what went on.
I'm old enougth to remember the Thatcher years, but those who aren't, well their opinion is valid also. Young, or younger people are living with Thatchers legacy. 9000 quid fees for education? Millions on the minimum wage and claiming benefits (in effect subsides for big companies)
And where does much of the benefit money go? Straight to the landlord - perhaps that's what Maggie was so keen on private property ownership.
Triple dip recession anybody. No industry - no quality jobs, no prospects.
We now have some worst housing stock in Europe, and not only that massive housing shortages too. I've got a mortgage, but I tell you I'd rather not.
She destroyed community and gave us individualism and greed. Crap poorly paid jobs for the working class, and sky high rates - want out, want an education, well that'll be 40 grand plus please.
So yes the opinion of those born after the Thatcher years is as valid as anybody elses.
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Wasn't it Blair that introduced tuition fees for Uni?
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Wasn't it Blair that introduced tuition fees for Uni?
shh, don't let facts get in the way of a rant..forum rules 101 :)
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Silly me! Cheers mate. Been awhile a little out of practise!
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Wasn't it Blair that introduced tuition fees for Uni?
Was it not the lies of the Lib dems that got the cons elected due to the lies they promised to the youth that are student and our would be leaders?
Lets simply educate our future leaders how to manipulate the generations to come buy saying one thing then doing another.
Why do you not read all manifestos then try and tell me how the Lib dems went with the conservatives? As it is simply corrupted greed due to the fact that the labour and lib dems manifesto are mirror images that it baffles me why Lib Dem's went with Cons.
101 in the Thatcher years was 1 in 10 and that was for your information 1 in 10 unemployed and by your rational was acceptable. In my rational every one has the right to work.
Daz
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The Thatchers........
The alcoholic husband, the racist daughter & the arms dealing son who has a personal fortune of £160 million and never paid a penny towards his own mums funeral because we're all going to pay for it instead with our tax's.
B4stards its a rich mans government .
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I'm a student, and I don't see the problem with raising tuition fees to be honest - if you want something that is a serious investment in your future, then you should have to pay for it - when I graduate and start work I don't want to have to pay taxes towards a few million people who are studying some wishy-washy subject at uni because they just don't want to start work yet! You still don't have to pay any more up front so it really is a future investment, and statistically you're likely to end up in a much better paying job with a degree than without, allowing you to pay off your student loan. Even in the event that you don't end up in a better paying job, you don't have to pay it below a certain salary threshold (around 23k ish from what I can remember), and once you get to a certain age, the debt gets written off. I really don't see what the massive fuss was about this!
For what it's worth, I've had 7k a year of debt from the government (3.5 for tuition fees, and the rest for maintenance) for the three years of my undergraduate degree, and then I've used savings from previous jobs and a part time job to pay for most of the rest. Next year for my masters I'll be having to borrow about 9k to pay for my course, so I'll be leaving uni with roughly £30k of debt. Sounds a big investment, and it really is, but I'm confident that my degrees will allow me to earn more than I would otherwise have throughout my lifetime!
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@JoeRock, no disrespect mate, but when you get out into the non-student world that £30k of debt is going to cripple you in ways you can't even imagine.
I started out with only £5k of debt and it screwed me for several years, I shudder to think what 30 would do.
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I've got closer to 40k but its manageable. Partly I think due to my location. Although the education itself was free as a result of the location and the debt is through student loans over the years
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I never did further education, no, just went to work,like all my kids, this student load malarky, well it is a bit worrying,,mum !!! lend me some money,Dad ,lend me a tenner,.Poor students, now there are limited jobs too, how do they get to pay the loan off?.
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wise up..tuition fees have always been there. My university course was over £3k a year back in 1980. BUT the government paid them as I was a poor student. Now the students have to pay them.Is this progress?....its discrimination against the poor.I do feel very sorry for any student saddled with that level of debt before they start.
Someone said we cant change anything - UTTER TOSH ! ...you have a vote ...USE IT ! We are saddled with this government because people didnt vote last election. Apathy will be the demise of us all.I dont care what you say about labour, they would have come up with a " masses friendly" package to reduce the deficcit , which has to focus around growth and regeneration, not just cutting budgets.
I do place maggie as almost in the category of despot. She thought she was right , wouldnt change, whatever . Hitler was the same...any historian will agree that ultimately he lost the war, and caused his own demise , all by himself as he never listened to advice or took account of the misery he caused his nation....now who does that sound like eh ?
The few never seem to take account of the feelings of the many .....is that democracy ?
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Yes , well there is another thing, who do you vote for in the next election,,?
Are they all the same, or just passing the problems around, never seen a poor politician, they are there just for themselves.Labour are telling the country,"lets borrow more money to kick start the economy" who is right, only time tells if the policies a faulty.
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@JoeRock, no disrespect mate, but when you get out into the non-student world that £30k of debt is going to cripple you in ways you can't even imagine.
I started out with only £5k of debt and it screwed me for several years, I shudder to think what 30 would do.
Was that a student loan though fella, and if so, did you start H.E between 1990 and 1997? As I started mine a lot later than that my loan has no effect on my credit rating, so really doesn't play that big a part at all. If I don't end up in a well paying job (over £21k) then I don't pay it back either, and if after 30 years I've not paid it all back then it gets cancelled.
For me, because of the nature of the work I want to enter I'm assuming that I will end up paying it back, but it is extremely unlikely that I won't earn £30k more over the course of my lifetime with a degree than without it (just because I can't enter my planned place of work without one!) What I pay back over a year is basically 9% of my salary after 21k. So If I'm on say £31k, then i have to pay £900 of my loan back, about £75 a month. The only time it will make life a bit more difficult is if I emigrate (which I'm planning on doing for a year or two after uni to teach scuba diving) as the payment threshold is quite a bit lower in most other countries, so what I'd probably end up doing is asking the company I work for to instead of giving me a higher salary, pay for my rent or similar instead, so that my salary is less and I don't lose as much from my student loan repayments on it whilst I'm not in a well paying job!
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Won't it affect you getting a mortgage or loan if you needed it? Because that's what happened to me, and it was late 80's early 90's. Part student loan, part regular loan so I guess it's not a complete like for like, but I would have thought it would affect you getting further credit.
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Has no bearing whatsoever on credit. I'm looking at mortgages just now and the credit report says nothing of student debt