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Messages - Whomightyoube
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1
« on: 17 October 2019, 10:08:23 am »
To be fair it was miss firing badly when I last tried to run it with a very strong petrol smell that made me feel sick and gave me a headache.
I got them to pick it up as I didn't want a repeat of that.
I had tried swapping coils and leads but it was always 3 that was misbehaving.
2
« on: 17 October 2019, 09:36:55 am »
Just spoke to the shop and they said they had done a crankcase pressure test which resulted in oil being pushed up into cylinder 3 which would be causing intermittent miss fire and it definitely needs new piston rings. Cost likely to be 6 hrs labour at £60 per hour. £150 for new gaskets and £150 for Piston Rings. Plus £108 already spent. £768 +vat.
Bike probably worth about £1000 as not in brilliant condition.
3
« on: 17 October 2019, 09:07:53 am »
Thanks for that.
I had swapped the slider over on the last time I had the carbs out.
The fuel pump clicking always lasts quite long compared to previously and always occurs even if the bike has just stopped for a short time.
Bike is still with shop so not able to do any more investigation at the moment.
4
« on: 17 October 2019, 08:18:53 am »
Mileage 40K. I cannot say that it has had the best of maintenance, but has been garaged. Trouble started after a period of not using again suggesting carbs being the problem.
I have replaced the float valve and rubbers. Not checked the petrol level though.
I have had the carbs of 3 times and cleaned out all the varnish. Jets cleaned so you can see daylight through them. Transfer ports blown through.
Any comment on my concern about the bike shops claim that i need new piston rings? The intermittent nature of this problem with it running perfectly sometimes suggests to me that, along with my compression test, compression is not the problem. Just checked the book last night and all cylinders are within range albeit that 3 is more than 10% down.
My thinking on the carb piston was that it opens the main jet. if it sticks open, then surely there would be too much fuel getting through on idle.
5
« on: 16 October 2019, 10:02:16 pm »
Hi
Yes new plugs. Also re-prepared lead ends.
I would have thought the air filter would affect all cylinders. It is now new but I have cleaned it with a vacuum.
I am not really familiar with the TPS. How is that checked?
Bike is still at shop so cannot look at it now.
6
« on: 16 October 2019, 09:29:35 pm »
Bike shop just diagnosed new piston rings required. I put it in because it is still misfiring on cylinder 3 intermittently. Chap suggested that it may not be economically viable to repair. It is a 2001 FZS Fazer, They seem to be going back up in value. Is this guy trying to rip me off?
I had previously dropped the bike off at the same place about three weeks ago but it was running fine then and they tried it through the day and it was fine when I rode it home.
Next time I tried it it was lumpy as shit, stalling at junctions or lights, with a terrible smell of petrol.
Thought it might be sticking carb piston. What would be the symptoms of that? If I started without any throttle either with or without choke it had run fine. Might a start with throttle lift the carb piston before it had chance to lubricate with some fuel. ( or how are these pistons supposed to be lubricated?
Previously I have had the carbs off three times to clean but using carb cleaner and air. Perhaps a clean in an ultrasonic bath is required.
I had done a compression test from cold which gave 14,5 barg for 1,2 and 4 but 12 for 3 but that might have been due to unburnt fuel washing lubrication from the piston rings.
I have swapped over coils and leads to eliminate electrical problems. Spark is healthy.
I have been very busy with work so not had time to sort this out. Also I think I am a bit prone to a reaction from petrol vapours which make me feel ill. Hence I tried the bike shop.
Any one got any ideas/comments?
7
« on: 15 June 2019, 10:13:15 am »
Thanks for your reply.
I was just wondering if the symptoms on their own are indicative of a basic problem. I have done some investigations of my own.
I have historically not had to use choke much at all on this bike but I I try to start with no choke now the cylinder 3 does not fire at all. It starts smoothly on choke and runs fast. I put the choke in pretty quickly after starting off.
I know it is cylinder 3 as the down pipe is colder or completely cold if I start with no choke. Have got new plugs. Sparks seem good. Swapped coils etc, always cylinder 3. Swapped over the two leads which fire at the same time. Re prepared the lead ends.
I have cleaned carbs thoroughly including transfer lines and replaced bits on carb 3.Basic kit with new O rings gasket and float valve. Float in good condition.
I have done compression test and cylinder 3 is down but still over 100 psi. I am thinking that it may be valve clearances or sticking valve? Would this cause this intermittent fault?
When I run out on an open road all down pipes are the same temperature and it runs smoothly even at low revs.
8
« on: 15 June 2019, 09:29:11 am »
My FZS600 runs fine if I start on choke and set of on an open road. The choke can go in pretty soon, before I get to the end of our road. I can then pull out into the. Main road, no problem but If I encounter traffic early on then it miss fires on 3rd cylinder and does not recover. Otherwise it is as smooth as you like at all revs, pulling away etc. What's going on?
9
« on: 10 November 2018, 02:34:13 pm »
Yeah it can be a right pain getting all the passages clean. The thing to remember is that you have to clean more than just the pilot fuel jet in the bowl. The idle circuit is the pilot air jet, the pilot fuel jet, the transfer ports and the mixture screw port. This diagram shows it well
At idle the butterfly valve is closed so air is drawn in through the pilot air jet (PAJ in the diagram), the air then goes to the holes in the side of the pilot fuel jet (PJ). Fuel is drawn up through the centre of the pilot fuel jet and mixes with the air from the pilot air jet. It then comes out the transfer ports just after the butterfly valve and also comes out the port at the mixture screw. So all of those passages need to be clear. If you just clean the pilot fuel jet in the bowl and don't clean the pilot air jet, transfer ports and idle screw port you can still have problems.
Can you explain your understanding of the idle circuit? What is the function of the transfer ports? I did some googling which indicated that the TP come into play when the TBF is just opened so if I am getting no firing when on idle on 3 it must be a blockage in the tube to the MS rather than the TP. Also, sorry about all the questions, but what is your understanding of the Choke plunger? A choke used to be another butterfly which was closed off to choke air supply to the carburettor to enrich the mixture. One reply above says the choke is a completely separate circuit. If so where does it get the fuel from?
10
« on: 10 November 2018, 10:07:17 am »
I have just started on full choke which was not as easy as starting without any. 3 exhaust got hot but not as quickly as the others. When I took choke off, the engine stopped. I then went for a ride. All four smooth for several miles. Short stop at junction OK. Another slightly longer stop at lights where I let it idle 30 seconds and down to 3 and lumpy at low revs all the way home.
My bike don't like red lights. How does it know ?
11
« on: 10 November 2018, 09:33:38 am »
To me it sound like the pilot circuit is blocked on carb three. To test if the pilot circuit is blocked try starting the bike on choke. Don't touch the throttle just leave the choke on and let the bike idle for a couple of minutes. Check does cylinder three start to get warm when you let it run on choke. The choke circuit is a different circuit to the idle circuit so if it does get warm on the choke but it stays cold off choke it suggest the idle circuit is blocked. You can test if cylinder three is getting warm up by throwing some water on the headers and see if the water dries.
Will try that, next week now as I have a busy weekend. My experience is that the bike dies not start at all on choke although when this trouble started I could only start it on choke.
12
« on: 10 November 2018, 09:28:59 am »
Yeah it can be a right pain getting all the passages clean. The thing to remember is that you have to clean more than just the pilot fuel jet in the bowl. The idle circuit is the pilot air jet, the pilot fuel jet, the transfer ports and the mixture screw port. This diagram shows it well
At idle the butterfly valve is closed so air is drawn in through the pilot air jet (PAJ in the diagram), the air then goes to the holes in the side of the pilot fuel jet (PJ). Fuel is drawn up through the centre of the pilot fuel jet and mixes with the air from the pilot air jet. It then comes out the transfer ports just after the butterfly valve and also comes out the port at the mixture screw. So all of those passages need to be clear. If you just clean the pilot fuel jet in the bowl and don't clean the pilot air jet, transfer ports and idle screw port you can still have problems.
Great stuff. Is this a generic diagram or specific to the Fazer? There is also another screw which looks like a jet but has no hole in it. Any idea what that is? I took all jets and screws out in the bowl and carb cleaner and blew out with air. I guess the TP would be better to seat the pilot screw to force air through it. Are the MAJ and PAJ removeable? [/size]There is also a small orifice next to the jets. Any ideas what this is?[size=78%][/size]I am wondering why it ran well for a short time after reving up to the lights when there were a couple of minutes idle, then lumpy again.[size=78%]
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« on: 09 November 2018, 09:16:32 pm »
Just got myself an ultrasonic cleaner for a recommissioning of an old XJR400. Cleaned an amazing amount of shite out the carbs, look good as new! Just got to rebuild them and try them. Carb cleaner just would t remove the varnish
So do you recon that I just didn't clean the carb out fully? I was wondering if I should have ditched all the old petrol and completely flushed the tank. I sprayed cleaner into all the orifces and blew out with air. Same with all the jets. Pilot jets are very small. If there is crap in the petrol then wouldn't all the carbs be affected, not just no 3 all the time?
14
« on: 09 November 2018, 09:05:43 pm »
Swapped Pistons as well. All move as they should.
Butterfly valves all look to move together. So the fuel reduces the compression because it delubes the rings? Makes sense.
On idle 4 doesn't get as hot as 1 and 2 but 3 is just ambient. With yours, could it be the pilot screw adjustment?
15
« on: 09 November 2018, 08:12:21 pm »
Not sure. The manual has instructions for splitting them which suggests marking which one is which. Not clear if it is possible to reorder them. All sounds a bit of a fiddle to put them back together.
It's a nice idea because it would determine whether or not it is definitely a fuel problem. Can't help thinking that there must be an easier way.
16
« on: 09 November 2018, 05:59:01 pm »
Oh also.
I reset all pilot screws to 2 turns out. They were 2 & 5/8 , 1. & 5/8, 2&1/8, 2&1/8. I did this during second carb removal as the original plugs were all a bit dark.
The bike which I bought new in 2002, has never required choke to start which I was told is fairly normal, but does seem odd.
It had been sitting in the garage for sometime so carbs did seem the most likely. I possibly should have ditched the old fuel and cleaned out the tank fully.
17
« on: 09 November 2018, 05:29:42 pm »
Hi everyone. I am a new member. I have a cylinder misfire at low revs. Exhaust is stone cold on 3 on tick over. After cleaning the carbs seemed to be the same on starting. I reved up a bit and then went for a run, seemed ok till stopped at lights and when pulling away down to 3 cylinders again.
[size=78%]Spark is good, new plugs, swapped 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 HT leads and swapped the LT connections to the coils, still same so I don't think it is electrical problem. Compression is down 17% on 3 but still 12 Barg. 1,2&4 are 14.5 Barg. I can't remember if I did compression test after warming up by idling so may do a retest after a run. I thought that 12 Barg should still get ignition. All 4 exhausts are hot after a blast on the road. I have had the carbs off twice and cleaned them out with carb cleaner and air. Floats and needle valves al look good but I need to check the fuel levels. I thought it might be the choke plunger so swapped 1 and 3, but no. I also swapped 2 and 3 diaphragms and 3 and 4 pilot jets and pilot screws. I haven't replaced any of the bits.[/size]
I thought that the compression being down might be due to that piston / cylinder being cooler. Put some oil in 3 and rechecked compression but I think I out too much in as it went way up to 18 Barg and oil came out the pressure release valve on the tester. Not checked the valve clearances yet.
No 3 plug does appear to be fouled up a but.
Anyone got any ideas about what this could be?
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