Date: 28-03-24  Time: 19:03 pm

Author Topic: BREXIT  (Read 209889 times)

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #525 on: 25 November 2018, 08:12:59 pm »
Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #526 on: 25 November 2018, 08:16:05 pm »
Quote
There could be further negotiation, though the EU appears to be saying very firmly that that will not be an option.
Well they would say that wouldn't they - its called negotiating 


Quote
Again, pretty much everybody agrees that NO DEAL is not an option.  The EU won’t that say that right now, but the reality is though it wouldn’t hurt them anything as much as it would hurt us, they simply don’t want to go there either. 
Er I think not getting their 39 billion under a no deal might make them wince a little 
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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #527 on: 25 November 2018, 08:21:47 pm »
Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.
You really believe that.
Im sure Grease also negotiated, im sure Italy is negotiating how to be told they must re do their budget. 
Negotiated  :rollin
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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #528 on: 25 November 2018, 08:24:25 pm »
Everything to do with the EU has been negotiated with us, nothing has been imposed on us.
Would love to see the evidence of this statement.
It's a fact that the EU has "imposed" over 52000 laws on us since 1990
Yep, you're definitely on a wind up

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #529 on: 25 November 2018, 08:31:01 pm »
They call it 'Qualified Majority Voting' don't they?.
Ie: the UK can vote against something, but still be forced to implement it because it was out voted by the other member states.

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #530 on: 25 November 2018, 08:42:22 pm »
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Im sure Grease also negotiated,
Don't think Olivia Newton John could do much negotiating in those tight trousers  :eek

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #531 on: 25 November 2018, 08:49:08 pm »

In other words a true BREXIT would mean the end of the United Kingdom and Great Britain. 
 
Why do you present that as a dooms day Armageddon to make an anti Brexit point and yet that is EXACTLY what you want to happen with your quest for scottish independence.   
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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #532 on: 25 November 2018, 09:06:04 pm »
 
Quote
They call it 'Qualified Majority Voting' don't they?.
 Ie: the UK can vote against something, but still be forced to implement it because it was out voted by the other member states.


 
The EU operates on the principle of consensus, it makes every effort to keep every country on board with every piece of legislation.
Minor issues can be voted on after negotiation by 'Qualified Majority Voting. 
The UK can veto any legislation if it can get three other countries on board.
On key major decisions the UK can alone VETO legislation.


https://fullfact.org/europe/british-influence-eu-council-ministers/






 

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #533 on: 25 November 2018, 10:10:45 pm »
Quote
Why do you present that as a dooms day Armageddon to make an anti Brexit point and yet that is EXACTLY what you want to happen with your quest for scottish independence.   
The priority has to be full single market membership. 



Look I voted for Independence?  Why?


Because I have never voted Tory in my life.  My country hasn’t voted Tory since the 50’s  And the Tory party of the 50’s is not the Tory party we have today.  The Tory party has steadily moved to the right over many decades.


So, Scotland doesn’t vote Tory and Scotland voted decisively to remain in the EU.  In fact, only half the countries that make up the UK voted to leave.


The Scottish parliament will continue to seek and obtain powers, and some sort of settled position will eventually be reached.  That may be full Independence or eventual fiscal autonomy.


Many of us in Scotland want the government we deserve – the governments we vote for, not government imposed on us by another country.


I’m not a rose tinted, or some sort of patriotic nationalist, it’s simply a matter of building the country and the future that we vote for.  England and Scotland sadly continue to grow apart.  That’s a shame but it’s just a fact of life.


We want our country to be the best it can be.  But nor do we want to see our most important trading partner shoot itself in both feet then blow it’s heid clean aff.  How would that be good for our economy?


There are some in Scotland who see BREXIT as an opportunity for Independence.  There are some in the governing party the SNP who also think the same.  We have our equivalents of Boris, Moog, IDS, Redwood etc, but like in England they are a minority. 



So the priority in Scotland is economic, not trashing our economy and future wealth in the hope, and it is only a hope, of independence growing from the smoking remains.
 
 

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #534 on: 25 November 2018, 10:19:23 pm »
 
Quote
It's a fact that the EU has "imposed" over 52000 laws on us since 1990

Really!? :rolleyes
So what are these objectional laws and how do they negatively impact on us?
 
You know I sometimes wonder if the real problem is that England has never got over the loss of it’s empire.  English people are still dreaming of the days they ruled the world.  Consensus, compromise and co-operation are maybe just not the English way. :pokefun


The EU is 28 countries, with numerous languages, 28 sovereign governments, 28 legal systems,  - all trading freely and unrestricted within a single market.  It is quite an achievement. :)


Inevitably that means bureaucracy, however it is nothing like the unsurmountable bureaucracy involved in trying to trade with 28 separate markets. :(
 
 

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #535 on: 25 November 2018, 10:24:13 pm »
If the UK has such power and influence as you say over it's law making within the EU, then it won't make any difference if we come out will it :rolleyes

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #536 on: 25 November 2018, 10:28:44 pm »
1. Google it
2. Google it
3. Google it
4. Google it
5. Google it
6. Google it
7. Google it
8. Google it
9. Google it
10. Google it
I could do this 52000 or more times but would be simpler if you googled it like I did. :D
And nowhere did I say they're all objectionable and negatively impact us.
That's you adding your own slant to it to suit your agenda.
You may add the poking fun symbol but you really come across as having a problem the the English.
« Last Edit: 25 November 2018, 10:35:22 pm by dazza »

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #537 on: 25 November 2018, 10:46:28 pm »
 
Quote
You may add the poking fun symbol but you really come across as having a problem the the English.

No, not at all.  I do have a problem with English politics.  It’s simple – you guys get the governments you deserve :lol – I want that opportunity too. :D
Or perhaps English folks don’t like Independent minded Scots;


Lord, grant that Marshal Wade,May by thy mighty aid,Victory bring.May he sedition hush,and like a torrent rush,Rebellious Scots to crush,God save the King.  :pokefun
 
My whole voting life has been under Tory governments.  And before you say New Labour, well it was just Maggie’s biggest achievement.
 
Quote
I could do this 52000 or more times but would be simpler if you googled it like I did. :D

 And nowhere did I say they're all objectionable and negatively impact us.

OK, but you surely you don’t want to leave the EU because you love it’s rules?  So what are these objectional laws – the ones you dislike and why?
Or is this all about freedom of movement, and fishing?
 

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #538 on: 25 November 2018, 11:09:03 pm »
It doesn't really matter, because it's becoming clearer and clearer that there won't be a 'No Deal' Brexit. So it's either 'May's Brexit' or 'No Brexit'. Either way, we'll be bound to the EU for years to come :D


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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #539 on: 26 November 2018, 05:15:31 am »

No, not at all.  I do have a problem with English politics.  It’s simple – you guys get the governments you deserve :lol – I want that opportunity too. :D
Or perhaps English folks don’t like Independent minded Scots


Ok, you must get it then. We want to be in control of our own destiny, just like you do.
This is me having to explain things over and over.
Didn't you get my analogy of a toxic partner dictating to you....Of course you did so why are you still asking the same question about what Brexiteers want.
I've also previously explained that everyone, depending on their own experiences voted to leave for their own reasons.
You can imply that we are uneducated, thick, misinformed or racist but we voted out because of what we saw, felt and what was affecting us.
Do I give a fuck if the price of German cars go up.... No, even though I drive one. I'll buy Japenese or pay the extra. I really couldn't give two fucks.


 
OK, but you surely you don’t want to leave the EU because you love it’s rules?  So what are these objectional laws – the ones you dislike and why?
Or is this all about freedom of movement, and fishing?
And if you for one moment think I'm going to trawl through 52741 laws that the EU has imposed on us since 1990 you been drinking too much of that Scottish whiskey. :lol


It's quite plain and simple, and I can only speak for myself.... The EU is undemocratic, we didn't vote them in, we can't vote them out...... That, right there is the main reason I voted to leave.


My Great Grandad served in world war 1 and was wounded by machine gun in the leg. Luckily he survived.
My Grandad served in World war 2 in the desert under Monty. He never spoke about it right up to the day he died.
I'm not going to go into detail about my service because it's not important.


I don't believe in God but If I ever met up with them again after this life is over, I want to look them in the eye, knowing I didn't just vote to hand power over to the very nation they fought against for us.
There are many of us Englishmen who feel the same and will never change our minds.


I've served with Scots, proud Scots, good men, solid men. Men who were not only proud of being Scottish but we're also proud of being British.
I know this, you don't represent all Scottish.
I bet the fishermen would see you as  a Judas.


The best thing for all is that you just accept.... We had the vote, it didn't go your way, that's it,deal with it and move on.
Get behind it and let's all make the most of any opportunities that come from it.
Stop being the voice of doom and gloom.
You wanted an independent Scotland... I don't blame you but that didn't go your way either........
It's all starting to make sense now why you cant let it go...... Don't hate us, don't hate English politics, it's all corrupt, it's all a load of bollocks. We all know that and we know there's nothing we can do about it.
We all just make the best of what we've got.
What we don't want or need is the EU thinking they know best for us too.... Because they don't,they don't give a fuck either.... Look at all the riots going on in France at the moment.
All up in arms over taxation.
The influx of Moslem men sexually assaulting German women... How do you think that's going end.
Europe is a pressure cooker waiting to explode, surely you can see that.
I'm out of this thread now, it's obvious where I stand and why.
You just need to accept you didn't get the result you wanted.
If it had gone the other way, I for one would've just accepted and got on with it.




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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #540 on: 26 November 2018, 07:16:16 am »

Perhaps the English should be given a referendum so we could become an independent country again. Scotland would not need another one then they would be on their own.

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #541 on: 26 November 2018, 10:11:54 am »

When there's been a referendum on the matter (Leave EU), the MP's should respect the majority view of the voters within their constituency area and vote accordingly as a formality. Why should one person make out they know better than the thousands who voted otherwise?.


I can see this whole thing ending up reversed and us being locked into the EU forever.


I'm never voting ever again in any election/referendum if that happens.

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #542 on: 26 November 2018, 05:26:04 pm »

...yep it's started. All they're talking about on the radio now is having another referendum after they've wrecked May's deal and getting the Leave result reversed :wall

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #543 on: 26 November 2018, 05:58:59 pm »
Quote
VNA;     

OK, but you surely you don’t want to leave the EU because you love it’s rules?  So what are these objectional laws – the ones you dislike and why?

Quote
Dazza;
 And if you for one moment think I'm going to trawl through 52741 laws that the EU has imposed on us since 1990 you been drinking too much of that Scottish whiskey. :lol
 
 
 It's quite plain and simple, and I can only speak for myself.... The EU is undemocratic, we didn't vote them in, we can't vote them out...... That, right there is the main reason I voted to leave.
 
 
 My Great Grandad served in world war 1 and was wounded by machine gun in the leg. Luckily he survived.
 My Grandad served in World war 2 in the desert under Monty. He never spoke about it right up to the day he died.
 I'm not going to go into detail about my service because it's not important.
 
 
 I don't believe in God but If I ever met up with them again after this life is over, I want to look them in the eye, knowing I didn't just vote to hand power over to the very nation they fought against for us.
 There are many of us Englishmen who feel the same and will never change our minds.
 
 
 I've served with Scots, proud Scots, good men, solid men. Men who were not only proud of being Scottish but we're also proud of being British.
 I know this, you don't represent all Scottish.
 I bet the fishermen would see you as  a Judas.
 
 
 The best thing for all is that you just accept.... We had the vote, it didn't go your way, that's it,deal with it and move on.
 Get behind it and let's all make the most of any opportunities that come from it.
 Stop being the voice of doom and gloom.
 You wanted an independent Scotland... I don't blame you but that didn't go your way either........
 It's all starting to make sense now why you cant let it go...... Don't hate us, don't hate English politics, it's all corrupt, it's all a load of bollocks. We all know that and we know there's nothing we can do about it.
 We all just make the best of what we've got.
 What we don't want or need is the EU thinking they know best for us too.... Because they don't,they don't give a fuck either.... Look at all the riots going on in France at the moment.
 All up in arms over taxation.
 The influx of Moslem men sexually assaulting German women... How do you think that's going end.
 Europe is a pressure cooker waiting to explode, surely you can see that.
 I'm out of this thread now, it's obvious where I stand and why.
 You just need to accept you didn't get the result you wanted.
 If it had gone the other way, I for one would've just accepted and got on with it.

Sae thas naw, ye didnae ken?  Thought so.
 

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #544 on: 26 November 2018, 06:18:10 pm »
 
Quote
When there's been a referendum on the matter (Leave EU), the MP's should respect the majority view of the voters within their constituency area and vote accordingly as a formality. Why should one person make out they know better than the thousands who voted otherwise?.

We’ve been over that.  It was a consultative referendum.  Nobody had a clue what BREXIT would mean in reality.  We now have a proposed deal.  MP’s do not have to accept any old deal that is put before them.
 
Quote
I'm never voting ever again in any election/referendum if that happens.
Good.  More power to my vote. :D
 
Look the reality is as full members of the EU we are part of process.  We have a say in everything the EU does.  We are part of the democratic process.  Any piece of legislation can be voted down by 3 member states objecting in agreement.  And on major decisions we have a veto.  Under the EU we are a sovereign state.


This interim deal keeps us in the customs union allowing us free trade with the EU for the duration of the transition.  But it takes us out of any negotiations relating to the running of the single market and customs union, and obviously we loose our veto.  We will no longer be a sovereign state as long as we remain under May’s deal.  And of course for the pleasure of loosing our sovereignty we pay 35 billion quid :eek


We will remain locked into the customs union for ever and a day until we come up with a solution to the Irish border.  To date nobody has come up with a workable solution.  So not only do we have no say in the running of the customs union but the EU will hold us locked into it.  Hence we will no longer be a sovereign state.


Quote
I bet the fishermen would see you as  a Judas.
I think that is how many see the Prime Minister Dazza.  We will continue to abide by the common fisheries policy until such time as we can negotiate a new policy.  That is a new policy that the EU will accept.  It will ultimately be their decision not ours.


Same goes for everything else.  This is an interim deal to facilitate the real BREXIT negotiations. 



So are there any positives?  Well yes one – that is if, if, if, parliament ultimate sings this off.  Once we realise our mistake, and that is that we are no longer a sovereign nation and we are stuck in a temporary position indefinitely – we will be able to re-negotiate full membership in order to regain our sovereignty.  However our terms will have to be acceptable to the 27 existing members.



We will never achieve the deal we currently have.  May's deal is shite.






 


 

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #545 on: 26 November 2018, 09:05:22 pm »
Ok lets have another referendum but the questions HAVE to include a No Deal exit as well as May's deal or stay.I voted to leave - I didn't vote for a deal - I didn't vote to give the EU 39 billion, none of that was on the ballot paper.And there should be NO debates in the run up from either side about the the pros and cons and lies and projects of fear or buses or gov printed pamphlets. It should be based on what we have learnt over the past 18 months and witnessed.

 If a no deal leave is on the ballot paper that is what most people will vote for - my prediction. We leave - the EU does not pass go they do not collect 39Billion. We then negotiate the bits we want how ever long the politicians want to take pissing about doing it, but we do it from a position of out and holding all the cash.

 By the way has anyone seen an itemised bill from the EU for the 39 billion.
« Last Edit: 26 November 2018, 09:36:06 pm by fazersharp »
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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #546 on: 26 November 2018, 09:39:34 pm »
Quote
Ok lets have another referendum but the questions HAVE to include a No Deal exit as well as May's deal or stay.I voted to leave - I didn't vote for a deal - I didn't vote to give the EU 39 billion, none of that was on the ballot paper.And there should be NO debates in the run up from either side about the the pros and cons and lies and projects of fear or buses or gov printed pamphlets. It should be based on what we have learnt over the past 18 months and witnessed.If a no deal leave is on the ballot paper that is what most people will vote for - my prediction. We leave - the EU does not pass go they do not collect 39Billion. We then negotiate the bits we want how ever long the politicians want to take pissing about doing it, but we do it from a position of out and holding all the cash.
Has anyone seen an itemised bill from the EU for the 39 billion.
I partially agree with you.  Nobody knew what BREXIT would actually mean at the time of the referendum (though please remember the referendum is actually about the Tory party).  Now we do.  Or rather we know what the interim deal is.


As for NO DEAL, I do not think parliament would ever put that to the people.  It’s not an option.  The BREXITEERS will eventually have to accept that.


Quote
And there should be NO debates in the run up from either side about the the pros and cons and lies and projects of fear or buses or gov printed pamphlets.
You can’t do that.  It would be undemocratic.  Illegal in fact.



Quote
Has anyone seen an itemised bill from the EU for the 39 billion.
It is simply to fulfil our contractual obligations.  Remember we are fully paid up members who are in fact tearing up our contract and getting divorced.  So we have already approved and committed to expenditure, projects etc etc  before June 2016. 



And if you NO DEAL – our credit rating will be effected.  If you NO DEAL and don’t pay, our credit rating will be trashed and our reputation around the globe damaged.  Sadly we have no choice but to pay.


To be honest, we just have to sit back and see what happens at this point.  I don’t think May’s deal will be voted through parliament (I could of course be wrong) and if it does indeed not pass, well it’s just a guessing game as to what happens next.  A second referendum is just one of a number of possible options.  This is a very serious UK political crises now. 



Seriously as for NO DEAL.  It’s just not going to happen.  No idea what the bookies are offering on that, if they will even offer odds on it.  I really do genuinely think it’s that low a possibility. 



To get that you would have to elect the fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists – ie UKIP – whom I get the feeling barely exists now. :eek :) :lol   
 

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #547 on: 26 November 2018, 10:31:53 pm »
To get that you would have to elect the closet racists – ie UKIP – 
 
Whilst we are on the subject the remainers had the audacity to point at Mogs crew and call them Dads Army - all old WHITE men. Have they not seen the main Brussels bureaucrats all old WHITE men giving out their demands for quotas on migrants that countries must take, where is the diversity in the EU high command where are all the women and people of colour. I would hazard a guess that there are more people of colour in UKIP than in the corridors of Brussels.   
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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #548 on: 26 November 2018, 10:39:09 pm »
Quote
Quote from: VNA on Today at 09:39:34 PMTo get that you would have to elect the closet racists – ie UKIP – 



Whoa,

Selective quoting is OK, but that's actually altering what I said. 

Focs sake don't forget the fruitcakes and loonies.
Quote
Have they not seen the main Brussels bureaucrats all old WHITE men giving out their demands for quotas on migrants that countries must take, where is the diversity in the EU high command where are all the women and people of colour.

The answer is - we elected them. :lol



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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #549 on: 26 November 2018, 10:57:56 pm »
What we're getting now (and not just on here) is a lot of Brexiteers moaning (Bremoaning?) because they are not going to get the particular version of Brexit they wanted - to just walk away immediately, pay nothing, expect the world to come beating at our door. They assume that everybody who voted Leave wanted exactly the same as them, when clearly that wasn't the case. Many wanted an EFTA /EEA type deal 'just like Norway and Switzerland who are doing so well'. But now No Deal Brexiteers try to hijack the 52% majority vote.


Well the good news is it's not going to happen. As VNA says we don't know what's next, but that's not it.


Then of course there's the current criminal investigation of Arron Banks and the indication of illegal foreign funding. They're not going to let him off the hook.


At least all of the 48% Remainers agreed fully on what they were voting for and what they were going to get as a result.


So I'm feeling more confident by the day. This is going only in one direction.


Bollocks To Brexit  :)