Bikes died 😧☹

[Dudeofrude]

So went out for a ride earlier and all was going well but as I pulled up at a petrol station I noticed the bike sounded a little rough. Didn't think much to it and put it down to the fact I've got a new chain and 'silent' sprockets so have been hearing more random noises than usual due to the quoter drive train.
Anyway it started to sound worse and everytime I can to a stop it started to sound more and more 'chuggy' sort of like a twin? But this was only on idle. It would fluctuate between 800-900 to 1200-1300rpm and be really rough. Also started back firing like a twat on every over run or gear change.

Managed to get back to my house and literally as I pulled up outside and put the bike into neutral it cut out, engine light came on and wouldn't restart! Now if I try to start it the whole system goes off and restarts (like the battery has suddenly failed) and just kicks up an error code 46.
I've checked and that indicates an error with the 'vehicle system power supply'

So what do we think the issue is? I've never known a battery to fail like that? Not to affect the engine running etc and certainly not while running?
So am I going to be looking at something more substantial? Something like a rectifier maybe?

[snapper]

some times when a battery fails , it only fails to take a new charge , which means it has charge left in it !

 so you start and ride round but as the battery slowly uses up that charge the bike starts to run rougher and rougher !

until there is no charge left and it dies

 it does sound like this but
 it could be as simple as a corroded connecter some where or  if the noises you were hearing were mechanical
 maybe alternator issues
 I saw something about the magnets failing out.
 I don't know much about gen 2's but then I don't know much about gen 1's either !
 if you can borrow a battery and try it before forking out for a new one
 

[Dudeofrude]

Thanks Snapper. After googling the code its coming back with a lot of stator implosions 😱😱
I bludy hope it isn't but will have to wait and see after I've stripped some stuff down and had a look.
Just waiting for the battery to charge at the minute

[Fazian]

Changing the stator is fairly simple TBH I did mine only around 2-3 weeks ago and used the RM stator which cost me around £220 all in with a new gasket. I still have the original one which had nothing wrong with it.


Hope it's just the battery 

[Dudeofrude]

Thank Fazian... me too haha
Changing the Stator is one of them jobs thats been on the to do list for a while but with its being preventative instead of an upgrade it always gets moved down haha horrible spending that sort of Money on something that won't make the blindest bit of difference.... until it does 😬

Well I've just had my multimeter out and been doing some investigation bit I have to say electronics are not my strong point but this is what I've come up with
Tried jumping it off an old car battery but couldn't even get the starter to engage or click.
Tested the battery and it was only holding 11.8V so that's gone on charge.
Took the rectifier off and tested that, getting a constant reading (5.7ish) across all 3 positive points, so guessing that's OK?
Tested the connector coming from the stator and that had a positive reading so should be good?
Checked all accessible fuses and all OK except the external charger one (which would explain why the trickle charger hasn't been doing anything)

After plugging everything back in the starter now engages and attempts one short sharp turn before the whole bike dies then reboots itself (as with a dead battery) so I'm optimistic its the battery thats finally given the up (was only £30 4 years ago haha)

I will give that a few hours on charge and see whats what.
Unless anyone else has any suggestions for me to try in the meantime?

[Dudeofrude]

Well crisis seems to be averted for now. Charged the battery for a few hours and stuck it back in. Bike fired up straight away and ran fine.
The battery is knackered as after nearly 4 hours on charge it still only managed to get to 13v and after checking with the multimeter it seems to be losing charge at a rate of 0.01 every 10 seconds or so.
So new battery getting ordered and hopefully thats the end of that

[bald_pig]

Well crisis seems to be averted for now. Charged the battery for a few hours and stuck it back in. Bike fired up straight away and ran fine.
The battery is knackered as after nearly 4 hours on charge it still only managed to get to 13v and after checking with the multimeter it seems to be losing charge at a rate of 0.01 every 10 seconds or so.
So new battery getting ordered and hopefully thats the end of that

check your reg/rec and stator regardless, you probably haven't fixed the problem, you can chuck fresh batteries on there all day if the bike ain't charging them!

[Gnasher]

Check the voltage across the battery when the bike is running at 6500k, you should have 14v if so the charging system is fine.  Hopefully what you've got is a badly discharged battery in which case you just need to replace it. 

I'd also suggest you look into how this has happened, or it very possible it will just happen again.  One of the biggest causes is cheap batteries, some mainly Chinese ones are just crap, especially gel types, OE spec (Yuasa) is around £80 odd, you can get a Chinese rip off for as low as £20 odd and everything in between.  They aren't in most cases apples for apples either OE is 11Ah and 230v ish, cheaper are 9Ah and 150v ish, the latter will not last.

It's up to you but as with everything you get what you pay for, my advice go for OE, or if you're on a budget something like Varta.  As you found out and just got away with it, they fail without warning luckily you made it home, had you not you'd be looking at recovery and all the potential cost and inconvenience that goes with it. 

Fingers crossed just a naff battery

[Dudeofrude]

Check the voltage across the battery when the bike is running at 6500k, you should have 14v if so the charging system is fine.  Hopefully what you've got is a badly discharged battery in which case you just need to replace it. 

I'd also suggest you look into how this has happened, or it very possible it will just happen again.  One of the biggest causes is cheap batteries, some mainly Chinese ones are just crap, especially gel types, OE spec (Yuasa) is around £80 odd, you can get a Chinese rip off for as low as £20 odd and everything in between.  They aren't in most cases apples for apples either OE is 11Ah and 230v ish, cheaper are 9Ah and 150v ish, the latter will not last.

It's up to you but as with everything you get what you pay for, my advice go for OE, or if you're on a budget something like Varta.  As you found out and just got away with it, they fail without warning luckily you made it home, had you not you'd be looking at recovery and all the potential cost and inconvenience that goes with it. 

Fingers crossed just a naff battery

Just did that this morning actually and there definitely a problem ☹
The reading is 12.58 while the bike is off then once started it drops to 11.99/12.01
The battery is knackered as I couldnt even get it to charge to more than 13v in the first place so its getting replaced. It was a cheap one as it was bought as a quick fix at a time when i was running a bit skint but to be fair its lasted nearly 4 years so its done well for the £30 it cost haha
Sportsbikeshop currently have the Yuasa on sale at £70 (£40 less than halfords) so will more than likely be going for that.

Question now is how to i test the other parts of the charging system?
I've checked the voltage on the rectifier and seems consistent but honestly don't know what I'm looking at haha
Obviously the last port of call is going to be the stator (as that requires ordering a gasket to check so I will eliminate the ither options first)
I'm getting a positive reading on the multistage from the plug but thats as far as I've looked so far.
Knowing my luck its going to be the rotor magnets 😧😧

[Gnasher]

Question now is how to i test the other parts of the charging system?

Mate you just need to

Check the voltage across the battery when the bike is running at 6500k, you should have 14v if so the charging system is fine.

These systems are very reliable in my experience, in the vast majority of cases battery issues are down to cheap batteries.  If the voltage rises as the revs increase the charging system is working, if components fail they either don't charge at all or over charge, the latter usually blows the rectifier which means no voltage.  Yes there're specific tests for each component but unless you've got a good knowledge of the what they're and the kit your'll wasting your time.   

[Dudeofrude]

So do you think the new Yuasa might sort it?
I mean there's only one way to find out I suppose haha

[Gnasher]

So do you think the new Yuasa might sort it?
I mean there's only one way to find out I suppose haha

Unless the charging system is working, no battery will sort it.  You need to test as mentioned, if you get 14v then yes stick a Yuasa in and forget about it   Just make sure you hook up to an Optimate or such like for the periods of non use. 

[Dudeofrude]

I already did. I said earlier that it only read 11.99v 😔

[Gnasher]

I already did. I said earlier that it only read 11.99v 😔

At 6500k? 

[Dudeofrude]

No I didn't rev it that high to fair. I'll go try it

[Trebus]

Try this flow chart to assist
https://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/Stator/fault_finding_by_www.electrosport.com.pdf

[Dudeofrude]

Well just tried to test at 6500k. I can't hold it at that time cause its too loud but nothing changed on the multimeter. Its still read 12.09 for the whole time. Revving didn't change anything.

Thanks Trebus
I'll try and decipher that chart and see what I can work out 👍

[Gnasher]

Well just tried to test at 6500k. I can't hold it at that time cause its too loud but nothing changed on the multimeter. Its still read 12.09 for the whole time. Revving didn't change anything.

I'll try and decipher that chart and see what I can work out 👍

Ok you should get some voltage increase at 2k ish and above and full 14v at 6.5k.  Sadly it's looking likely you do have a stator issue.  That's unlucky mate not common in my experience, good luck with the chart, lets us know how you get on.   

[Dudeofrude]

Well just tried to test at 6500k. I can't hold it at that time cause its too loud but nothing changed on the multimeter. Its still read 12.09 for the whole time. Revving didn't change anything.

I'll try and decipher that chart and see what I can work out 👍

Ok you should get some voltage increase at 2k ish and above and full 14v at 6.5k.  Sadly it's looking likely you do have a stator issue.  That's unlucky mate not common in my experience, good luck with the chart, lets us know how you get on.   

Yeah I'm getting that feeling too. Question is if its the stator its self or the magnets on the flywheel. Im really hoping its not the later and seeing as it starts and runs without any issue I would say they mist be still attached or surely I'd be hearing some horrible noises coming from the motor?

Also are the £5 gaskets off ebay alright to use? Can't seem to find proper ones anywhere?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362623549211

[Gnasher]

Yeah I'm getting that feeling too. Question is if its the stator its self or the magnets on the flywheel. Im really hoping its not the later and seeing as it starts and runs without any issue I would say they mist be still attached or surely I'd be hearing some horrible noises coming from the motor?

Mate you'd hear nothing if the coil or stator pick up/s are shot.  It could be something as simple as a bad connection, or corrosion within a connector/s, have you checked all the multi plugs in the system?  If you've got a workshop manual page 8-150 takes you through testing the stator and the rectifier, it's fairly straight forward.  They either work or they don't really and as mentioned they're pretty reliable.   

Also are the £5 gaskets off ebay alright to use? Can't seem to find proper ones anywhere?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/362623549211

Look here mate No10 https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/6408022/fz1-na-fazer-22c1-2008-010-a/crankcase-cover-1 

I really got no experience with the ebay gasket, but it could be fine, your choice.

[Dudeofrude]

Well following the service manual I managed to test the resistance from the stator coil. The spec was 0.14-0.18 and mine is reading 0.6 across all 3 pins so guessing thats the issue. Going to take the cover off and have a look to see if the magneto is intact 🤞
But looks like I've got some money to spend before she's back on the road

[Dudeofrude]

My question now is how to do I know if its the stator coil or the magneto flywheel??
If all the magnets are in place on the flywheel then does it have to be the stator coil thats gone?

[Fazian]

I got my gasket here, the packet it came in had a genuine Yamaha sticker on it but it did cost me £16 with postage.


http://www.manhattanmotorcycles.co.uk/p/28871/2d11545110-gasket-crankcase-cover-1

[Fazian]

My question now is how to do I know if its the stator coil or the magneto flywheel??
If all the magnets are in place on the flywheel then does it have to be the stator coil thats gone?

I can't imagine it would be the stator with the magnets attached that would be the problem as this just connects mechanically to the engine and provides the rotation for the coil that produces the current.

[Dudeofrude]

I got my gasket here, the packet it came in had a genuine Yamaha sticker on it but it did cost me £16 with postage.


http://www.manhattanmotorcycles.co.uk/p/28871/2d11545110-gasket-crankcase-cover-1

Cheers for the link 👍