Date: 29-03-24  Time: 07:15 am

Author Topic: BREXIT  (Read 210429 times)

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3200 on: 30 May 2019, 07:53:20 pm »
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New Labour is far from dead. Its core still sits in the House, waiting for the right moment to ditch Corbine. I amazed you, of all people, think it dead :eek

The New Labour days are over.  New Labour failed.  New Labour tried to stop Corbyn and failed.  The membership no longer supports The New Labour project.  Chuka Umuna and others have tried to finish The Labour Party by setting up a new right centralist New Labour type party but in reality may have brought their political careers to a stop.  Others are trying to accuse the Labour Party of being a home for bigots and racists with their fake anti-Semitic claims, they will fail too.

 
But what could sadly kill Labour is one of the men who stood firm for years and is one of the men responsible for winning it back from the Blairites, and that is Corbyn.  The Labour Party must ditch it's ridiculous position of delivering BREXIT.  Well maybe, but only if we can’t get a general election, and then maybe if we can’t get that we’ll put a deal to the people, and maybe see what they want.  Oh the deal will be a bit of this and a bit of that.  For focs sake.


Labour must take a principled stand.  It is clear that it is in the UK’s interest to be part of the single market.  We can leave and go to a Norway type deal (favoured by Farage a few years back), but then why would we want to give up our current privileges and influence.


It is also clear there is a majority in the country in favour of remaining in the EU.


Meanwhile on a brighter note.  There is always the possibility of the upcoming new Prime Minister being put on trial for abusing public office.  And hopefully other candidates will now be charged.  Imagine that a UK PM facing jail!


 
 

YamFazFan

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3201 on: 30 May 2019, 08:08:18 pm »


It is also clear there is a majority in the country in favour of remaining in the EU.



Yep last Thursday made that clear beyond any reasonable doubt :lol

YamFazFan

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3202 on: 30 May 2019, 08:17:51 pm »


Meanwhile on a brighter note.  There is always the possibility of the upcoming new Prime Minister being put on trial for abusing public office.  And hopefully other candidates will now be charged.  Imagine that a UK PM facing jail!


Is this the crowdfunded private prosecution attempt ?

YamFazFan

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3203 on: 30 May 2019, 08:23:03 pm »


Labour must take a principled stand. 


 :lol :rollin :rollin :rollin oh stop it! it hurts! :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3204 on: 30 May 2019, 08:42:18 pm »
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last Thursday made that clear beyond any reasonable doubt :lol
What I am saying is this YamFazFan, is that if Labour now backs REMAIN, if Labour now commits to either a second referendum or cancelling article 50, well its job done.


And the message will be clear for The Tories.  You deliver BREXIT and you will pay the political price.  Let them own BREXIT.

 
 

mtread

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3205 on: 30 May 2019, 09:01:32 pm »
That same post referendum YouGov poll I quoted from had Labour voters as 65% Remain 35% Leave. Almost exactly the opposite of Tory voters.
So what doesn't Corbyn understand?

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3206 on: 30 May 2019, 09:10:10 pm »
God only knows.  The clock is ticking.................

vinnyb

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3207 on: 30 May 2019, 09:15:28 pm »


It is also clear there is a majority in the country in favour of remaining in the EU.



  How can anyone know that when two thirds of the country couldn't even be bothered to vote?
« Last Edit: 30 May 2019, 09:20:28 pm by vinnyb »

fazersharp

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3208 on: 30 May 2019, 09:46:28 pm »
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last Thursday made that clear beyond any reasonable doubt :lol
What I am saying is this YamFazFan, is that if Labour now backs REMAIN, if Labour now commits to either a second referendum or cancelling article 50, well its job done.
And the message will be clear for The Tories.  You deliver BREXIT and you will pay the political price.  Let them own BREXIT.
So you are quite happy to demonise "populist" parties in the EU but its ok if it is something popular with you. Shameful going after votes just to try to get in power. All along it has been in Labours interest to make brexit as hard as possible.
If there is a general election before brexit is delivered then Nigel Farage needs to start choosing the wallpaper for No10.     
I don't do rain or threat there of. dry rider only with no shame.

YamFazFan

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3209 on: 30 May 2019, 10:21:33 pm »



It is also clear there is a majority in the country in favour of remaining in the EU.



  How can anyone know that when two thirds of the country couldn't even be bothered to vote?


Eh? That's not my quote! :lol .


If people can't be bothered to vote then they clearly have no interest and are happy to let those of us that do decide for them.


I've seen it previously where Remainers have added the non-voters onto the Remain total because they didn't vote to leave. It's nonsense. You could equally say that they didn't vote to Remain :rolleyes



mtread

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3210 on: 30 May 2019, 10:28:22 pm »
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If there is a general election before brexit is delivered then Nigel Farage needs to start choosing the wallpaper for No10.     
Won't happen. If the Tories back a Brexit (in any form) Brexit Party's support will dissolve. Farage has failed to be elected as an MP 7 times already. 'Mr Populist' provides too simple solutions for what are complicated issues, and nobody would trust him to run a country.
« Last Edit: 30 May 2019, 10:31:31 pm by mtread »

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3211 on: 30 May 2019, 10:36:32 pm »
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All along it has been in Labours interest to make brexit as hard as possible.
:rolleyes
Labour voted in favour of article 50.

Labour need to now realise they made a mistake.

mtread

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3212 on: 30 May 2019, 10:38:20 pm »
So Fazersharp, if you are not a Conservative supporter, you are perhaps a Brexit Party supporter, because they wouldn't 'have their snouts in the trough'?
Apart from Brexit, what policies of the Brexit Party do you find attractive?

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3213 on: 30 May 2019, 10:40:02 pm »
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If there is a general election before brexit is delivered then Nigel Farage needs to start choosing the wallpaper for No10.     
The BREXIT party does not have any policies, nor does it have 650 candidates.

The BREXIT party will do about as well as UKIP ever did.  Remember UKIP :lol

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3214 on: 30 May 2019, 10:40:48 pm »
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Apart from Brexit, what policies of the Brexit Party do you find attractive?
Privatise the NHS :eek     :lol :lol :lol    

YamFazFan

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3215 on: 30 May 2019, 10:55:38 pm »


The BREXIT party will do about as well as UKIP ever did.  Remember UKIP :lol


I was finished with UKIP the moment I heard that they were associating themselves with a certain Tommy Robinson/SYL, but previous to that didn't they win the 2014 European Parliament elections?.

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3216 on: 30 May 2019, 11:00:13 pm »
....just realised you're referring to General Elections :o

mtread

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3217 on: 30 May 2019, 11:09:34 pm »
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didn't they win the 2014 European Parliament elections?.
Well they had the largest number of UK MEPs, but not a majority. I wouldn't call that a 'win'.
And what did they do with it? Apart from Farage's grandstanding for the cameras, did you here about any of them doing anything at the EU Parliament? Did any of them actually turn up? Or did they just take the wages and expenses?

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3218 on: 30 May 2019, 11:38:20 pm »
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Well they had the largest number of UK MEPs, but not a majority. I wouldn't call that a 'win'.
Only the SNP have ever won an election that cannot be won.
So yes UKIP were victorious in 2014.
Just as the SNP were in 2016 - though all the press could tell us was that the SNP had lost it's majority. 

The BREXIT Party won the 2019 EU elections.  But that does not mean there is a majority right now in the UK for BREXIT, and there is most certainly no majority for a NO DEAL BREXIT.

But soon people will need to be reminded who UKIP were.
And the BREXIT Party going forwards?  A party without policy ain't gonna go far.

mtread

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3219 on: 31 May 2019, 12:28:25 am »
You only 'win' if you have more than all of your combined opposition. Only then can you dictate outcomes. Otherwise you are powerless.

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3220 on: 31 May 2019, 01:08:55 am »
 
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You only 'win' if you have more than all of your combined opposition. Only then can you dictate outcomes. Otherwise you are powerless.

Sorry that’s nonsense.


The winner in politics is the party with the biggest share of the vote, or the largest number of seats.  Clearly, winning, and to what extent you win, depends on the electoral system.


Nobody wins a General Election in the UK on the basis of “you have more than all of your combined opposition.” in terms of share of the vote.  You win on the basis of having won more seats than “all of your combined opposition”



The EU elections, just as the Scottish elections, are not run on the first past the vote system.  What you are saying, logically is that nobody ever wins, expect the SNP who did the impossible in 2011.


Which is of course, part of the problem with BREXIT.  It is a clash between referendum and a representative democracy, in this case a first past the post representative democracy.


Democracy should not be about “dictate”.  But then we have in the UK an electoral system that is designed to produce doctoral governments over 4 or 5 years. 



Meanwhile we face the prospect of a small and ageing Tory membership choosing our next Prime Minister.  Can that in any way be called democratic in a national sense?


 

VNA - BMW Wank

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Re: TALKING B****CKS THREAD
« Reply #3221 on: 31 May 2019, 01:10:06 am »
So yes;
The BREXIT Party won the 2019 EU elections.  But that does not mean there is a majority right now in the UK for BREXIT, and there is most certainly no majority for a NO DEAL BREXIT.


mtread

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Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
« Reply #3222 on: 31 May 2019, 09:57:03 am »
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Sorry that’s nonsense.
The winner in politics is the party with the biggest share of the vote, or the largest number of seats. 
No it isn't. If the combined opposition(s) have more than you they can form a coalition government, and hey presto, you are the opposition, without power. Then you're 'win' disappears. It's happened often.


So Corbyn wants a softer Brexit, and Hammond suggests a second referendum as a solution. Strange days  :rolleyes


And who the hell is Mark Harper?!


Oldgit

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Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
« Reply #3223 on: 31 May 2019, 11:08:58 am »

Trump for leadership of the Tory Party.


Grahamm

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Re: TALKING EVEN MORE B****CKS THREAD FROM NORTH OF THE BORDER
« Reply #3224 on: 31 May 2019, 11:23:57 am »
Jacob Rees-Mogg is objecting to Boris Johnson being taken to court for lying during the Referendum campaign because “It is trying to use the courts to achieve a political end which, I think, is neither right or proper."

Of course when his father took the government to court to try to block the Maastricht Treaty, that was *entirely* different...!  :rollin

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/rees-moggs-maastricht-plea-rejected-legal-challenge-may-continue-despite-defeat-in-high-court-1488238.html