Starting Issue - AGAIN

[darrsi]

Wheeled the bike out the garage, put it on the centre stand (side stand up), and it started instantly, no choke or anything. 

That doesn't mean it's instantly fixed, I want it to do the same again this evening after work, so if it starts again straight away i'll look into another way of securely bypassing the side stand switch, either soldering, using a connecting block, or maybe even one of those solder/heatshrink jobbies that were on here the other day.

Just spoke to a work colleague who was unfortunately just walking out of reception last night when my bike backfired, he said he nearly filled his pants. 

[tommyardin]

Found this on Face Book, I know its got nothing to do with this thread but it made me smile.
So here goes:

[darrsi]

Found this on Face Book, I know its got nothing to do with this thread but it made me smile.
So here goes:

That all looks and sounds rather familiar 

[darrsi]

Bike started on the centre stand again, outside work this evening, first go.
I can't believe that poxy side stand switch can cause so much grief.
At least i have a good idea of the cause now, which is the main thing.

[His Dudeness]

If the side stand switch has been bypassed the position of the stand shouldn't have any effect on the bike. All that side stand switch is doing is connecting a wire together when the stand is up. By bypassing it you've permanently joined the wire so the position of the stand should now have no effect. That's why bypassing it is a bit dodgy, you can ride off with your stand down. Is you side stand still connected to the main loom? If it is then disconnect it and you can use two spade terminals on a loop of wire to bypass it. It's a bodge but it works

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x237/joejoe69_album/IMG00402-20100410-1807.jpg

 

[unfazed]

Just a quick one on the side stand switch, If it was the issue it would not operate the starter and would not be turning over.
Side stand switch is not the issue, the fact the engine turns over rules out the starting circuit of which the side stand switch is a part of.

[darrsi]

Just a quick one on the side stand switch, If it was the issue it would not operate the starter and would not be turning over.
Side stand switch is not the issue, the fact the engine turns over rules out the starting circuit of which the side stand switch is a part of.

Started instantly 4 times in a row now, morning and evening, with the side stand up!
That can't be coincidence surely?

[fazerscotty]

If its starting when the side stands up or when its on the centre stand then I would hazard a guess that something ain't right with the float bowls or the level of fuel in them when its lent over. Or maybe the fuel pick up in the tank?
Just a thought..........

[darrsi]

If its starting when the side stands up or when its on the centre stand then I would hazard a guess that something ain't right with the float bowls or the level of fuel in them when its lent over. Or maybe the fuel pick up in the tank?
Just a thought..........

I will try starting the bike whilst sitting on it when it's upright, but with the sidestand still down, and try your theory out when i go to work in an hour.

[darrsi]

If its starting when the side stands up or when its on the centre stand then I would hazard a guess that something ain't right with the float bowls or the level of fuel in them when its lent over. Or maybe the fuel pick up in the tank?
Just a thought..........

So......I sat on the bike with the bike in upright position, sidestand down.......and it started.

Now, before getting too excited, I still have to bear in mind that I've got my bike tanked up with around 400ml of 99% proof booze in case it had moisture in the system and that may also have made an improvement, so what I need to do when going home from work tonight is try it again on the side stand and see what happens?

I'll keep you posted.

[fazersharp]

I've got my bike tanked up with around 400ml of 99% proof Isopropyl

Darrsi's Fazer

[darrsi]

It's more like this at the moment 

[darrsi]

Came out of work this evening, pressed the button, bike on sidestand......started immediately!


This is all now aiming at water settling in the carbs when the bike is leant over all day/night.
I reckon the 99% alcohol has started doing its job in the tank, clearing the water by binding and burning it off.


I'll keep trying it now on the sidestand and see what happens.


If this is the reason then i presume the only way for water to enter the tank is via the tank cap?
So, what is the preferred and most effective way of stopping water from penetrating the tank in future?

[darrsi]

Hmmm, just been having a read, and someone mentioned having water in their fuel pump!
I s'pose as any water/moisture lies low it could remain dormant and slowly build up over time causing starting problems.
Even more good reason to use the alcohol trick to flush it from the system. 

[ogri48]

I had a old z1000 a few years back that suffered these intermittent problems, and the fix given to me by a old zed head was brilliantly simple. As the fellers have said the low tension side of things doesn't take a lot to drastically alter the high tension side. If your getting say 11 volts at the coils instead of 12, multiplying many many times over and being converted to high tension that one volt loss becomes a helluva lot more. If you check the voltage to the coils ( low tension) you may well find there's a drop, caused by old wiring and old joints leaking off voltage which is what my problem was. Fix was to run a live feed to the coils direct from the battery via a relay, useing the original coil live feed as the switch wire. Sounds simple because it is, but it worked, plugs ran a lot cleaner too. Just another thing to look into mate :-) also, that bike ran dreadfully on iridium plugs, as have a few I've owned, no idea why, some bikes just don't like the buggers..:-)

[darrsi]

I had a old z1000 a few years back that suffered these intermittent problems, and the fix given to me by a old zed head was brilliantly simple. As the fellers have said the low tension side of things doesn't take a lot to drastically alter the high tension side. If your getting say 11 volts at the coils instead of 12, multiplying many many times over and being converted to high tension that one volt loss becomes a helluva lot more. If you check the voltage to the coils ( low tension) you may well find there's a drop, caused by old wiring and old joints leaking off voltage which is what my problem was. Fix was to run a live feed to the coils direct from the battery via a relay, useing the original coil live feed as the switch wire. Sounds simple because it is, but it worked, plugs ran a lot cleaner too. Just another thing to look into mate :-) also, that bike ran dreadfully on iridium plugs, as have a few I've owned, no idea why, some bikes just don't like the buggers..:-)

Thanks for the tip.
The bike runs spot on once started,and i couldn't be happier with it.
I've changed a lot of parts recently just to rule them out, which weren't expensive, and bearing in mind the bikes age i thought it wouldn't hurt anyway.
For now it does seem like the problem has been found, but i'll put some more booze in the tank next time i fill it up to make sure it clears any leftover moisture out.
And anyway, everyone deserves a drink at Xmas, even my bike. 


I never really needed to change my plugs, as because they were Iridium there is probably years left on them as i don't do high mileage, but i did notice i had CR9EIX plugs in before but replaced them with CR8EIX ones, but i doubt very much that it makes any difference at all to the running of the bike, as they both cover our climate quite comfortably. I kept them so can always change them back if i want, but i really don't feel the need to.

[tommyardin]

Came out of work this evening, pressed the button, bike on sidestand......started immediately!





If this is the reason then i presume the only way for water to enter the tank is via the tank cap?
So, what is the preferred and most effective way of stopping water from penetrating the tank in future?

Or a dirty supply at the point of re-fueling, try a different gas station.

[darrsi]

Came out of work this evening, pressed the button, bike on sidestand......started immediately!





If this is the reason then i presume the only way for water to enter the tank is via the tank cap?
So, what is the preferred and most effective way of stopping water from penetrating the tank in future?

Or a dirty supply at the point of re-fueling, try a different gas station.

I mainly use the same garage simply because it's the only one that does 97 RON fuel that i know of. Not keen on the 95, and 99 is okay but is a waste of money for a commuter bike.