Date: 29-03-24  Time: 15:09 pm

Author Topic: BREXIT  (Read 210833 times)

ogri48

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #150 on: 10 November 2018, 11:19:45 pm »
thats probably true of most European countries now mate, and of course the USA. Guess its just a natural progression of the human race, twats that we are.

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #151 on: 11 November 2018, 12:33:07 pm »
Quote
The whole idea was daft in the first place. Done to silence the Tory right and UKIP once and for all. Except it massively backfired. All about internal Tory party infighting.


And here we are. A split nation with nobody happy....
Indeed.  Absolute utter selfishness
 It was to pull the significant extreme right wing of the party in line, and yes kill UKIP. Cameron and his buddies didn’t think for one minute what would happen if they lost the subsequent referendum.


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Hundreds of thousands, across many industries, as companies moved thier business to Europe and we were forced to privatise our state-owned enterprises, with only the NHS surviving the cherry picking
This was one of the problems with the EU referendum.  We’d had some 37 odd years of right wing neo liberal governments.  Privatise everything, even schools and hospitals have been partially privatised through the PFI PPP debacles, social and care contracts privatised, our prisons privatised, social housing – everything privatised. The Tory dream of a flexible low wage economy.  Our terms and conditions slashed, pay the employee what you can get away with and maximise profit at every opportunity.  Over three decades of socialism for the rich.


None of it EU policy.  This was all done by the Tories with New Labour carrying on their work.


So no wonder people were and are pissed off.  We’ve been getting screwed for decades, even to the point we now have austerity and food banks for the hungry in nearly every major town across the country.


Given a ball to kick, well even people who had never ever voted before in their life came out registered to vote and kicked that ball hard.

 
Sadly we kicked the wrong ball.  The EU is not to blame for our ills, our own governments screwed us.


BREXIT is simply a continuation of Thatcherism, the extreme right of the Tory Party is getting it’s way.  They are going to finish the job she started, and you and I are going to pay the price.



 

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #152 on: 11 November 2018, 01:11:44 pm »
I don't care. I'm with ogri. I want Brexit. Unfortunately for you, I got a vote too. Deal with it.  :D

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #153 on: 11 November 2018, 02:51:00 pm »
Quote
I don't care. I'm with ogri. I want Brexit. Unfortunately for you, I got a vote too. Deal with it.  :D

BREXIT job losses last week;
 Michelin tyres Dundee.  845 jobs to go.
Schaeffler Plymouth and Llanelli.  500 jobs to go.
Guess they will just have to deal with it too.





 

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #154 on: 11 November 2018, 03:01:26 pm »
Sorry mate, I have my own problems far worse than just having no job. But I got a vote. I want Brexit. I might cope if we don't get Brexit, but it's not a given.

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #155 on: 12 November 2018, 09:10:28 am »

Corbyn is one of those rare folks of whom you all complain here does not exist.  He is genuine. 


That's true.


I had to do a double take to make sure, but he genuinely did wear a grey hoodie anorak with the hood hanging out and a red tie for the service of remembrance at The Cenotaph yesterday.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #156 on: 12 November 2018, 09:34:47 am »
So? He's also the only one in the group who hasn't sold arms to the Saudis.

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #157 on: 12 November 2018, 09:53:48 am »

I'm agreeing with VNA. I'm not offering an opinion, merely making an observation.


The bit I don't understand is why he sings the National Anthem. Isn't he a republican?.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #158 on: 12 November 2018, 11:10:53 am »
He was miming. He was actually singing 'The Red Flag'  :)

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #159 on: 12 November 2018, 11:37:09 am »
 :lol

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #160 on: 12 November 2018, 02:34:56 pm »
I often see Remainers say that the Brexiteers don't know what it was they were voting for. So, to be clear:


1. To be able to make our own laws without having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.
2. To be able to control immigration in a way that suits us.
3. To be able to make our own trade deals around the world.


My question is, is there anyone here who doesn't want those three things for the UK, aside, obviously, from VNA, whose only concern is Scotland, and then only those Scots who agree with him?
« Last Edit: 12 November 2018, 02:37:17 pm by Hedgetrimmer »

Slaninar

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #161 on: 12 November 2018, 04:44:28 pm »
I often see Remainers say that the Brexiteers don't know what it was they were voting for. So, to be clear:


1. To be able to make our own laws without having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.
2. To be able to control immigration in a way that suits us.
3. To be able to make our own trade deals around the world.


My question is, is there anyone here who doesn't want those three things for the UK, aside, obviously, from VNA, whose only concern is Scotland, and then only those Scots who agree with him?
During the 90s civil wars, my city of 200.000 got around as many refugees. Didn't like the change, even though those people speak the same language. However, the alternative was even worse  - letting them die.
Another example is a sysetms administrator in my country earns up to 1000 euros per month (that's considered a top pay). Without an EU passport, you can't apply for jobs in EU countries, UK, USA and Switzerland (especially) being very tricky. So the world is still a bit like the middle ages - depending on which family you're born into determines pretty much what you can "afford".
On the other hand, let 1.000.000 of my countrymen enter Switzerland and you no longer have Switzerland.
Hence, if you include ethics into making the decision, not just money, it's even harder to be objective and wise. It's all a mess, not black and white. Especially since I think the working class of all the world's countries is opressed by the big capital. Those who started the mess in the middle east are the real problem cause IMO, the real "enemy". People destroying rivers, forrests and other countries, killing people for profit...  So whatever UK chooses, I expect it to get harder and harder to get by on an "average" wage from year to year.
« Last Edit: 12 November 2018, 04:45:01 pm by Slaninar »
Most things done in a hurry need to be done again - patiently.

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #162 on: 12 November 2018, 05:41:54 pm »
Quote
1. To be able to make our own laws without having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.2. To be able to control immigration in a way that suits us.3. To be able to make our own trade deals around the world

I'll get none of things, because I didn't vote for this government. People forget that the EU is also a democracy, just a larger one. In fact my views and needs are better represented by the EU than the current UK government.
What do Remainers want
1: Be part of a trading block that has the size and power to match the rest of the world
2. Freedom of movement and opportunity for UK nationals throughout Europe
3. Continued peace in Europe
and so much more.....

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #163 on: 12 November 2018, 06:21:44 pm »

What do Remainers want
1: Be part of a trading block that has the size and power to match the rest of the world

My, that'll be a challenge! The rest of the world is a big place ;)



Quote
2. Freedom of movement and opportunity for UK nationals throughout Europe

I'd prefer to live in a country that can provide for its own.

Quote
3. Continued peace in Europe


If that can't be done outside of the EU, then it probably can't be done. At the very least, you'd have to erase all national interests. As long as there are any differences, there will be conflict. So, one language, one culture, one religion, one centre of rule etc etc. The rise of nationalist movements throughout Europe illustrates that these things are unlikely to materialise. Unless you want to try to enforce them on everyone? More likely to cause war imo.

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #164 on: 12 November 2018, 06:23:43 pm »
Quote
1. To be able to make our own laws without having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.
2. To be able to control immigration in a way that suits us.
3. To be able to make our own trade deals around the world.

Obviously to have an open free trade market across 28 countries you need to have common laws.  These laws are generally made by consensus.  I’m not aware of having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.  So what are the laws that you so strongly object to?


What we are talking about is free movement across the EU.  So what exactly is the issue?


We already have trade deals across the globe as members of the EU.  After BREXIT we will end up on WTO rules and will have no trade deals.  The EU is our most important single market, and what we have decided to do is make it more difficult to trade with the EU.  I have no idea why BREXITEERS think that the UK, which doesn’t have the clout of the EU, can negotiate better deals than the EU.  Also, other countries around the globe will prioritise the EU over us – and of course the EU will always get a better deal and get it first. 



 
Meanwhile where are we with BREXIT?  Basically, running out of time.  Though at least there is a new more realistic slogan is in town.  Any deal is better than no deal.  Though of course we are potentially about to tear up the best deal of all which is the one we have.


So with time fast running out……….. The government is looking increasingly unable to come to any agreed position.  The DUP will bring down the government if there is a border between the UK and Northern Ireland.  A border between NI and EIRE is not even worth thinking about.  The government won’t call a general election as they would expect to loose it, but they will point to the fixed term act as a means to clinging to power despite not being able to actually govern. 



With a government unable to come up with a deal.  And even if they could, a parliament that is unlikely to accept any deal, the only way out of this mess may be to return to the people.


BREXIT is a nightmare.



 

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #165 on: 12 November 2018, 07:11:47 pm »
Quote
1. To be able to make our own laws without having undesirable/unsuitable ones thrust upon us.
2. To be able to control immigration in a way that suits us.
3. To be able to make our own trade deals around the world.

Obviously to have an open free trade market across 28 countries you need to have common TRADE laws.


FTFY.


Quote
the EU will get a better deal if/when all members finally get around to agreeing with each other, which can take years


FTFY


We were given a vote. The MAJORITY OF VOTERS chose Brexit. The politicians said they would implement the voters' will. In a democracy, that means the will of the MAJORITY.


I'm not against a further vote on the nature of the deal. But such a vote should not include the option of a rerun on the original question - in or out. We voted out. (Yes, yes, I know, Scotland didn't - so vote for Scottish Independence and stop messing about).

agricola

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #166 on: 12 November 2018, 07:15:53 pm »
Why the need for common laws to trade? We traded with Europe long before we joined the EU

Free movement across europe? Weve always had it before we joined the EU. I took several continental holidays in the late 60s, just had to show a passport, thats all. 

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #167 on: 12 November 2018, 07:45:01 pm »
 
Quote
Why the need for common laws to trade? We traded with Europe long before we joined the EU


You can’t have a common market without common rules.  It is not possible.  Simple.
As I have pointed out numerous times, the EU is 28 countries with one single market place.  What we had before was 28 sperate laws, 28 separate customs, 28 separate standards, and so on and so on.  I have no idea why we would not want to be part of that.

And whatever sort of BREXIT we get, though my money has always been on article 50 eventually being binned, we will have to continue to abide with EU rules if we wish to tarde with them.  But we will have no say or influence in those rules.

Quote
Free movement across europe? Weve always had it before we joined the EU. I took several continental holidays in the late 60s, just had to show a passport, thats all. 
You had no right to live, work or retire there.  That’s what we have now.
 


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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #168 on: 12 November 2018, 07:54:37 pm »
 A referendum that should have never taken place. We are a representative democracy. 
Nobody can agree what BREXIT is.  So, nobody can implement what nobody can agree on. 
As the only solution is to reject BREXIT.  Any referendum has to offer the opportunity to ditch BREXIT. 

The majority of people in the UK today clearly dont want BREXIT.
Lets get on with it, have a re-run.  Job done.  Back to normal.
Not to mention binning BREXIT means a stronger economy, a stronger pound, which means cheaper bikes.


 

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #169 on: 12 November 2018, 07:58:31 pm »
A referendum that should have never taken place.


In your opinion.


Quote
We are a representative democracy.


We won't be if Brexit is just ditched.



Quote
The majority of people in the UK today clearly dont want BREXIT.


Proof?

Lets not get on with a re-run.  The job was done.


Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #170 on: 12 November 2018, 07:59:40 pm »
You had no right to live, work or retire there.  That’s what we have now.


Scotland not good enough for you, eh?

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #171 on: 12 November 2018, 08:11:48 pm »
Quote
Why the need for common laws to trade? We traded with Europe long before we joined the EU
Yes it was called EFTA, based around a common Customs Area. It still exists and Theresa May has ruled us out of it. So yes we can trade with Europe, and pay duties, lose trade, close factories, have Customs controls, queue up with the lorries on the M20, create an Irish border  etc etc etc

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #172 on: 12 November 2018, 08:17:13 pm »
Quote
Free movement across europe? Weve always had it before we joined the EU. I took several continental holidays in the late 60s, just had to show a passport, thats all.

You had no right to live, work or retire there.  That’s what we have now.
Neither did you have free health care, included roaming charges, bike insurance cover etc etc

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #173 on: 12 November 2018, 08:35:17 pm »
Tbh, with all we're told we get from EU membership, and them apparently not getting a thing from us, it's a wonder they didn't actually kick us out  :rollin


So they certainly won't let us back in  :rollin :rollin

ogri48

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #174 on: 12 November 2018, 08:42:03 pm »

Quite apart from my reasons for voting to leave, I think the EU is falling apart anyhoo, whatever mess we have to sort out now it will be worse for those in it when it collapses.  :)