Date: 28-03-24  Time: 14:59 pm

Author Topic: BREXIT  (Read 209720 times)

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #25 on: 03 November 2018, 08:15:25 am »
Oh, as a parting shot on BREXIT

So steve10562cc went to all the trouble of custom making a thread for you for ONE post! :rolleyes
 :lol

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #26 on: 03 November 2018, 09:59:32 am »
The trouble with Brexiteers is that they won't say what they want. Like a small child at the seaside crying because they don't want an ice cream. Remainers like VNA and myself come up with solutions out of the current mess, but Brexiteers just go on and on with the 'we won' chorus, without saying what they want to happen now. They are very good at knocking things down, but useless at building things up.
So come on, what's your solutions for where we are now? Soft Brexit or hard Brexit? What should our future trading relationship be with the EU? What should happen about the land boundary in Ireland? Let's hear some positive suggestions for a change?
Sometimes I feel sorry for Theresa....

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #27 on: 03 November 2018, 10:13:01 am »
Like a small child at the seaside crying because they don't want an ice cream.
That's more often than not bacause they want one and get told they can't have it.
A bit like the Remainers and a second referendum/People's Vote :lol

ogri48

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #28 on: 03 November 2018, 10:39:18 am »
A remainer saying the leavers are crying like petulant children!?!? I mean, seriously mate?

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #29 on: 03 November 2018, 10:41:26 am »
The trouble with Brexiteers is that they won't say what they want.
I'll have a go :D ....I don't want the unelected Junckers and the other unelected commisioners proposing the legislation that eventually ends up becoming law in this country.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #30 on: 03 November 2018, 10:47:07 am »
The trouble with Brexiteers is that they won't say what they want. Like a small child at the seaside crying because they don't want an ice cream. Remainers like VNA and myself come up with solutions out of the current mess, but Brexiteers just go on and on with the 'we won' chorus, without saying what they want to happen now. They are very good at knocking things down, but useless at building things up.
So come on, what's your solutions for where we are now? Soft Brexit or hard Brexit? What should our future trading relationship be with the EU? What should happen about the land boundary in Ireland? Let's hear some positive suggestions for a change?
Sometimes I feel sorry for Theresa....


I could equally turn that around and ask what kind of Europe do Remainers want to be a part of? Were you, for example, happy with the deal Cameron came back with just before the referendum? Or did you think he didn't need to strike any new kind of deal? Do you think everything the EU does is just fine by you? VNA doesn't think it would ever move towards a Super State scenario. And yet to many people, that is exactly where it seems to be heading. Maybe that's a good thing? Maybe there should be no separate countries in the EU anymore? Wouldn't that erode the individual character of each one though? Or is that ok too?


And were Remainers happy with the way the immigrant 'crisis' was handled? Just shooing in all and sundry, economic as well as refugee status? With hardly any checks on background? Was that wise, given the kind of countries they were coming from and the current state of affairs with Islamic extremism? Or perhaps you think there were too many to realistically do background checks on, and anyway, what could we have found out about them all individually? So is that an excuse to just let them all in? Sort it out afterwards? Do you think the member states of the EU prepared themselves sufficiently for it? Was there enough consultation on how it should be handled? Should the people of Europe have been asked what they thought? Does the EU give enough support to the countries on the 'front line'? Greece, Italy? Is it right to punish those countries who close their borders to the flood? By what right?


Tbh, I'm not fully in either camp. But that's another problem with the EU. In many ways, it is not flexible enough towards its members. And this is why some perceive that its future is as a Super State. With such attitudes, how could it be otherwise?


What do Brexiteers want? They want what anybody else wants, but they want the decisions about their future to be made closer to home than the shady dealings of Brussels, which they are told very little about. Maybe that would have been enough - to have been kept better informed. The EU says the British didn't understand what they are about. Perhaps they should have taken the time to explain it to us more clearly, or at all even, which they still haven't done. What is their end goal, in a project that is clearly still evolving? What is their plan?


But they also want their government to listen to them, to help them. At least here in the UK they can have some influence on that at election times, but they can't influence EU decisions in that way. It's hard enough for UK regions to get themselves heard at home. Even remoter government can only make that harder still. Do you think all the tendencies towards nationalism are just whimsical, occurring out of boredom? To ignore them, to ignore the issues which give rise to them, to vilify them in a knee jerk reaction, is dangerous.


But Brexit can't be seen in isolation either. It's not just Europe that is changing, but the world. Technology and communication drive things on ever faster, but people don't evolve at the same rate - can't.


They want a check on the corporate capitalism that is widening the gulf between rich and poor. The EU seems to them to exacerbate the problem, rather than address it. Oh, there have been some signs recently that they've been prepared to tinker around the edges of this. But too little, too late. Maybe they'll get to a point later where people will be happier. But if they'd listened to their people sooner, perhaps Brexit wouldn't have happened. If nothing else, it was intended as a wake-up call to the faceless politicians 'over there'. And still they show few signs of having listened. Politicians. Self-righteous, self-serving pricks. Don't blame me if I turn my back on them!


Oooh, I feel better for that  :lol
« Last Edit: 03 November 2018, 11:30:34 am by Hedgetrimmer »

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #31 on: 03 November 2018, 11:49:22 am »
That's a good post. Whatever side of the debate you're on it's worth reading to the end.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #32 on: 03 November 2018, 12:04:14 pm »
"Side? I am on nobody's side, because no one is on my side."

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #33 on: 03 November 2018, 12:36:32 pm »
But nobody has answered any of my questions...... Which is what I expected :lol :lol


As to decisions being made closer to home. Yes absolutely, but give them a clue as to what the answers are.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #34 on: 03 November 2018, 12:42:16 pm »
But nobody has answered any of my questions...... Which is what I expected :lol :lol 


Because the questions are too limiting in their scope. Likewise, you haven't answered mine, which I also expected  ;)  Besides which, I was under the impression that you Remainers think you have all the answers.


Quote
As to decisions being made closer to home. Yes absolutely, but give them a clue as to what the answers are.


Go on then, I'm listening...
« Last Edit: 03 November 2018, 12:44:25 pm by Hedgetrimmer »

ogri48

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #35 on: 03 November 2018, 12:48:17 pm »

v. good post Nick. I think that eloquently expresses what a lot of us are thinking. And personally, im not answering the question because I don't feel I have justify my decisions (in any respect, not just to do with Brexit) any more than I would ask you too justify yours mate. I'm a bricklayer, not a politician. But that doesn't mean I don't get a vote, or the right to cast it however I wish. If i'm wrong, and it all goes terribly pear, then i'll be proved wrong. That's life, and thats democracy. I respect your views, they are simply not the same as mine.
I honestly think too that if they did have a second referendum, the vote for leave would be even bigger. The way the jumped up eurocrats dealing with Brexit have treated us as a country and people these last two years have left most  in no doubt as to the future if we stay in the eu. And most people in this country, particularly my generation, would rather die on our feet that live on our knees.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #36 on: 03 November 2018, 12:52:17 pm »
I'm not a politician, like VNA and mtread. I don't have the answers. I only see the problems. But those who claim to know better should be providing us with the answers, or else shut up and leave room for those that can.


Brexit is merely a symptom. Discussions about the Irish border, customs unions etc are only details in what should be a much wider discussion. Perhaps the EU referendum came too early. These discussions should have been had first, but not just here in the UK, nor even just in the EU. Oh, my head, it's all so big, just too big!  :lol


I should probably explain, that whilst I am in neither camp completely, my sympathies at present lie more with those that voted for Brexit.
« Last Edit: 03 November 2018, 01:02:06 pm by Hedgetrimmer »

ogri48

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #37 on: 03 November 2018, 12:57:03 pm »
lol that bit was directed at mttread. my writing skills aint all that :lol :lol :lol good job im not trying to do it for a living ….

Bretty

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #38 on: 03 November 2018, 01:20:17 pm »

I'd have thought house prices falling by 10% was a good thing!.


Makes them more affordable for first time buyers and doesn't affect those who already own because everyone else's drops too.


Bring it on I say.


Haha, I've heard that said a before. It makes me laugh because it defies logic. Think it through... The economic downturn will mean people are worse of with less access to credit. The result being people have less opportunity to buy houses and the prices fall.. (Cause and effect)... and you're saying it will help people to buy houses, the people that are now worse off with no access to credit.
« Last Edit: 03 November 2018, 01:22:04 pm by Bretty »
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Bretty

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #39 on: 03 November 2018, 01:25:32 pm »
To coin a phrase, "Brexit means dogsh*t".


I was told on Thursday I am being made redundant as a direct result of the economic contraction anticipated as a result of Brexit.


Our currency crashing makes the international company I work for less profitable for investers. The slowing of the UK economy also.


Oh well look on the brightside...?!
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YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #40 on: 03 November 2018, 01:39:14 pm »
"Side? I am on nobody's side, because no one is on my side."
I was reccomending it to others who most definately are on one side or the other.
I wasn't suggesting that you were on a particular side.

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #41 on: 03 November 2018, 01:46:57 pm »
To coin a phrase, "Brexit means dogsh*t".

'To coin a phrase' usually means it's a really well known one, in common usage.
I can honestly say I've never heard that specific one before :rolleyes

mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #42 on: 03 November 2018, 01:57:44 pm »
But the customs union and the Irish border are not 'only details', they are the most important content of any deal. One affects our economic future, the other peace in Ireland.


The comments so far just appear to confirm that the Brexit vote was a negative protest vote.

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #43 on: 03 November 2018, 02:01:29 pm »



I was told on Thursday I am being made redundant as a direct result of the economic contraction anticipated as a result of Brexit.


That is shit, and you have my sincere sympathy. Being laid off due to "anticipation" is indeed a nasty way to treat your employees, especially when no exit deal has yet been struck, so no one actually knows what things will be like. I presume they will immediately invite you back and compensate you if things go better than anticipated?

Hedgetrimmer

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #44 on: 03 November 2018, 02:10:17 pm »


The comments so far just appear to confirm that the Brexit vote was a negative protest vote.


Your use of the word "just" seems rather flippant to me. If nothing changes, here in the UK, in the EU countries, around the world, expect more of the same.

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #45 on: 03 November 2018, 02:13:59 pm »
But that doesn't mean I don't get a vote, or the right to cast it however I wish.
Quite right.
Although I've heard it said more than just a few times since the referendum, and on several occasions during the run up to it, by Remain enthusiasts, that certain groups of voters shouldn't have been allowed to paticipate.
It's mostly the younger student voters voicing the opinion that older voters should be disqualified from taking part.
Their basis for this is that the older generation tended to vote Leave in higher numbers and that it was their future that was being stymied, as they see it, by the more mature voter.
If that ain't a classic case of age discrimination I don't know what is! :lol
« Last Edit: 03 November 2018, 02:20:10 pm by YamFazFan »

YamFazFan

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #46 on: 03 November 2018, 02:16:37 pm »



I was told on Thursday I am being made redundant as a direct result of the economic contraction anticipated as a result of Brexit.


That is shit, and you have my sincere sympathy. Being laid off due to "anticipation" is indeed a nasty way to treat your employees, especially when no exit deal has yet been struck, so no one actually knows what things will be like. I presume they will immediately invite you back and compensate you if things go better than anticipated?

Does it actually say.... "Anticipation Of Brexit"?.

Bretty

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #47 on: 03 November 2018, 02:21:39 pm »
Not officially..


My company are a multi-national. I have seen the forecasted figures for next year (which take into account currency changes and economic contraction).


Also there is the consideration that my company manufacture all across Europe and sell all across Europe.. ANY tariffs or logistical delays will have a direct impact.


Plus all of my whole industry anticipates a reduction in spend. Conclusion next year will be harder than this year, yet profits must be maintained. Result company wide austerity. :-(
« Last Edit: 03 November 2018, 02:59:32 pm by Bretty »
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mtread

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #48 on: 03 November 2018, 02:41:23 pm »
I'm by no means being flippant. I fear the worst. If the world is voting against rather than for things all the time, we're in for a very bad time.


My sincere sympathies with you Bretty. Hopefully the government will do a good deal which will limit the damage.

Oldgit

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Re: Just for VNA a brexit thread
« Reply #49 on: 03 November 2018, 02:54:18 pm »
Can't wait to be out of the EU, I did not vote for another government in Brussels, I voted for free trade only in1974