Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
Bikes, Hints'n'Tips => FZS600 Fazer => Topic started by: redmandan on 13 September 2019, 07:23:12 pm
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Hi Guys
So this Summer I fitted my new Delkevic full exhaust and today the K&N air filter arrived along with a Colortune! (American spelling of colour of course :b )
Whilst the tank was off to fit the new air filter I figured I'd re-balance the carbs and hook up the Colortune. As for balancing I'm pretty sure I've got some air getting in at the connection points on the boots for the Vaccuum gauges. I have cheap Chinese boots and the balance gauge connection posts can easily be pulled out. But I digress.
I connected the colortune reasonably easily, fired it up and I couldn't see anything at all. Maybe my idle is too high or it was too bright out but it was a pretty dull and overcast day so I don't really know what's up. All the videos online seem to show a really clear burn on the colortune. Whats more, the colortune kept arcing to the head, this didn't seem too safe so I took a quick video, put the nromal plug back in and decied to retreat to ask you all once again for your sage advice.
https://youtu.be/ZvaFINWu4ts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvaFINWu4ts#) https://youtu.be/ZvaFINWu4ts (https://youtu.be/ZvaFINWu4ts)
I tried with the 45 degree mirror attachment thing but that didn't help either.
I have noticed before, when I was removing plug caps with the engine running, that it was very easy to receive a shock through the HT leads. Is this normal? surely it's all well insulated?
Also a couple of pics of my spark plugs directly after removing if the FOC-u gurus wouldn't mind casting your eyes over them. This is after warming up, in neutral only, going up to around 3500 revs.
https://imgur.com/a/d21M26I
(https://imgur.com/a/d21M26I)
Cheers for the help
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Your plugs look dirty to me.
If youve air getting in at the connection points, then surely itll be getting in when the motors running. Might explain why the plugs are black
The video link doesnt work
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Would've thought too much air would be too lean, so the plugs wouldn't look so oily?
And chop 5mm off the HT leads then reseat the caps as tight as you can.
Did you test the TPS beforehand as well to make sure that's behaving, 'cos if it's not then it will give a false reading anyway, and it will cause all sorts of running problems.
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Is the oil on the plugs some you used to ease removal? The one tip we can see looks dry, if very sooty. It certainly looks as if it has been running rich.
Never used a Colourtune, but would expect it to need near darkness for a good indication.
Don’t pull plugs when the engine is running! The ignitor circuit limits the peak voltage using a capacitor, but these gradually reduce in value with age meaning the potential peak voltage generated will increase. In normal use the spark limits the voltage, but if the gap is big it relies on the capacitor to restrict the peak, so avoiding damage to the ignitor circuit/coils/insulation. With a tired old cap the safety margin is reduced. In your example it was the lead insulation that couldn’t cope so you copped a zap..
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Add to that, i'd change the plugs anyway, have a shop around for some new Iridium ones, they function way better than standard ones on these bikes, without a doubt.
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Thanks for all the input guys
Fixed the link to the video, it's only 7 seconds long and a bit grainy anyway. EDIT: I really have no idea whats up with the link, it works in the preview pane but only seems to link back to this thread once saved. URL is youtube.com/watch?v=ZvaFINWu4ts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvaFINWu4ts#) if you want to copy paste.
Yes I think there may be a very small air leak, I've tried epoxy sealing the loose connectors in but the flexible rubber makes for bad adhesion. I might try some vulcanizing stuff from a bicycle puncture repair kit but it's the heat tolerance i'm worried about as they're right up against the head. Sprayed brake cleaner on the area with the engine running and it doesn't change anything.
I fitted the new NGK caps myself a couple of years ago and snipped off 5mm from the HT cable as advised. I will check they are screwed on as tight as poss.
TPS shows 5000rpm.
For the plugs I think I'll try and soak them to get them clean, fix the problems I seem to have with over-fuelling and then do the iridium upgrade.
Regarding removing caps whilst the engine is running, I never thought this would cause an issue! Perhaps there is something there, I wasn't sure 3 was firing a while ago as the exhaust took much longer than the others to heat up. I removed the cap and the revs obviously dropped so i knew it was firing. I checked all the others at the same time so perhaps I damaged the capacitor then and now too much spark is going to my plugs and it's forcing the Colortune to arc to the head.
Any ideas on sourcing new ignition coils and leads? Fowlers says 114EU for one coil :'(
The bike runs reasonably well to be honest, just a slightly lumpy idle and the rev needle bounces up and down. I guess I'm striving for perfection.
Maybe I should just try and adjust the mixture screws with the bike set-up normally? Is it so difficult to hear when it's running right?
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Bike sounds terrible, it's not right at all, and that sparking is mad as well.
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I think your main problem is the spark plugs. They look old and fouled. I think it's time for new ones. In your video of the cylinder that was arcing, I'd guess the fouled plug is causing high resistance and the electricity is finding a lower resistance path through the colour tune to the head. When it does that you lose spark on that cylinder and you'd be running on three cylinders so to stop that I'd replace the spark plugs. Next I'd check that the air filter is in good condition. Next if you've been adjusting the mixture screws I'd set them back to what it says in the manual. After doing all that it should be running right and you can do some fine tuning with your colour tune. The coils seems to be putting out a good spark so I wouldn't replace them.
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Got some iridium plugs on the way. Ordered them from here (https://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-ngk-iridium-ix-spark-plug-cr8eix-4218.html?___SID=U), They seem to be a fair bit cheaper than everywhere else, I hope they're the real deal.
The plugs I have have only done around 4000 miles, but they are around 2 years old. They've done a lot of cold starts and running on tick over on my drive as life gets in the way of me going out for a proper ride.
As suggested I'll put all the mixture screws back to factory. I'll still try and clean up the current plugs as best I can and use them to see if the over fuelling issue is resolved before I put the new iridium plugs in and foul them up.
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All plugs will look like yours if the bike is regularly started from cold and even run at idle to 3500. The 600 runs slightly rich and the plugs will never get hot enough to burn off the carbon caused what you are doing. Take the bike for a motorway run of 15 to 20 miles and then check the plugs on return when the engine cools down. This will give a much better idea of the how the carburation is doing.Uneven idle can be caused by out of balance carbs.
Not ideal but much better than starting it and letting it idle for a long period. The colour tune kit is not much use on the more modern bikes like the Fazer as the carburettors are of a better design to the ones back in the sixties/seventies when the colourtune was first marketed. I used to use the colourtune on the my old Ford Carpri 2.0 V4 and 1.6 GT but would never even consider using it on the fazer.I agree with His Dudness, set everything to factory setting, (unless you have a 90 Degree Bevel Screwdriver it will be carbs off the set the pilot screws) clean the plugs you have or wait until the new ones arrive, change/check the air filter, balance the carbs, set the TPS after balancing and setting the isle speed and go for a good 20 mile spin.If you still have problems come back to us.
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Got some iridium plugs on the way. Ordered them from here (https://www.gsparkplug.com/1x-ngk-iridium-ix-spark-plug-cr8eix-4218.html?___SID=U), They seem to be a fair bit cheaper than everywhere else, I hope they're the real deal.
The plugs I have have only done around 4000 miles, but they are around 2 years old. They've done a lot of cold starts and running on tick over on my drive as life gets in the way of me going out for a proper ride.
As suggested I'll put all the mixture screws back to factory. I'll still try and clean up the current plugs as best I can and use them to see if the over fuelling issue is resolved before I put the new iridium plugs in and foul them up.
The company you got the plugs from is where i get mine from now, they appear to be very legit with good reviews too. :thumbup
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Just as a quick update, set the mixture screws back to the factory 2 turns out today. I was able to do this without removing the carbs which was nice. They weren't too far from factory settings anyway. Went for a good blast down the motorway and pulled over, quickly cut the engine and whipped out the plug from cylinder 1. I'm thinking these are alright now most of the carbon deposits have burned off?:
https://imgur.com/a/fKqZI0z (https://imgur.com/a/fKqZI0z)
Let's try again with a youtube link:
youtube.com/watch?v=3fKyOp6MASA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fKyOp6MASA#)
Still has a bit of a lumpy idle but I think I'll just live with it.
When I got home the iridium plugs had arrived in the post. I'm taking the bike to the Ardennes for an extended weekend next weekend so I'm looking forward to putting some more miles on the beaut.
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That plug looks a bit better, but Ive never seen plugs with an upturn at the end of the electrode before. Id fit the new ones ASAP. Good luck with it
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Still has a bit of a lumpy idle but I think I'll just live with it.
Balance the carbs after fitting the new plugs and that will help
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Get a bottle of this stuff, and put the whole lot in mixed with a full tank of 97 or even better still 99 octane petrol (Shell V Power), and give the insides a bit of a clean up. It's the only stuff i use, normally once a year, and actually notice a difference afterwards.
Must exactly be this version only though, don't choose a different one.
Funnily enough, if you read the reviews lower down the first one is from a Fazer owner. :)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STP-Complete-Fuel-System-Injector-Cleaner-Fuel-Treatment-Additive-400ml-Petrol/323875407305?epid=1417381921&hash=item4b687a85c9:g:Mr8AAOSwv5RdRYwP (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STP-Complete-Fuel-System-Injector-Cleaner-Fuel-Treatment-Additive-400ml-Petrol/323875407305?epid=1417381921&hash=item4b687a85c9:g:Mr8AAOSwv5RdRYwP)
ps: you can get it from Halfords for an extra £4 if you want it quicker.