Author Topic: FZS600 valve train noise/camchain (Read 7561 times)

Ministras · « **on:** 15 April 2018, 07:29:13 pm »

Hello everybody, not so long ago i bought a Yamaha FZS 600 as a first bike. Being a complete novice to motorcycles i started reading about basic maintenance and stuff and i ran across valve clearance, which should be done at every 40k km on my bike. Seeing as my bike has 32k km on it, in a country thats famous for reversing odometers i started hearing sounds.

https://youtu.be/ImyeOKCOwRs

Now is it all in my head, or do i have to prepare for adjusting the valve clearance, replacing camshaft(based on the other sources i have found)? Power seems good(havent pushed it too much), there are no hiccups, and it idles fairly well as the previous owner didnt winterize the fuel. Thanks in advance.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 April 2018, 08:21:15 pm »

It's most likely cam chain noise not valve noise. Fazers have automatic cam chain tensioners and the tensioner sometimes takes a while to advance and take up the slack in the cam chain which creates the noise you're hearing. It is generally normal and they all have some level of that noise. If you're lucky that's all that is happening and you just ride on and the tensioner will advance by itself and the noise will go away or you might be unlucky and the cam chain is worn and the tensioner has already advanced as far as it can and the chain needs to be replaced. You can either ride on and keep listening if the noise is getting worse or if it goes away or you can take the tensioner out and visually inspect how far it has advanced by counting how many notches of adjustment are left on it and that will tell you if the chain is worn out. If you do have to replace the chain there's two way to do it one is to use an endless chain but this requires a full engine strip, the other is to use a rivet chain where you attached the new chain to the old one and pull it through the engine and rivet it together.

Ministras · « **Reply #2 on:** 16 April 2018, 09:13:46 pm »

Thanks for the answer. Just scared to ruin my first bike for not spotting something sooner

daviee · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 April 2018, 03:48:46 pm »

I would be looking to get that checked sound very loud in tbe video and could possibly be a big end starting to fail just my thoughts on hearing it in the video if it was the cam chain it tends to get less niose when you rev it but that just gets faster as the revs rise

psyfi_1 · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 April 2018, 05:39:05 pm »

fazer do always have a bit of cam chain noise they are known for it but hes right check cam chain tensioner first see if its extended all the way if so look at getting a rivet chain its easier to put in

His Dudeness · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 April 2018, 08:07:29 pm »

sounds like classic cam chain noise to me. you can put a screwdriver against the engine and put your ear to the handle and move the screwdriver to different parts of the engine and you will hear what part it's coming from. no harm bringing it to a mechanic and letting him listen to it

Ministras · « **Reply #6 on:** 18 April 2018, 07:25:53 pm »

Quote from: daviee on 17 April 2018, 03:48:46 pm

I would be looking to get that checked sound very loud in tbe video and could possibly be a big end starting to fail just my thoughts on hearing it in the video if it was the cam chain it tends to get less niose when you rev it but that just gets faster as the revs rise

The sound seems to dissapear after 3k rpm, then appear for 500 ish rpm, then disappear all the way to 12k

His Dudeness · « **Reply #7 on:** 18 April 2018, 07:30:11 pm »

does the noise get louder or quieter as the oil warms up? did you try the screwdriver to the ear check?

Gnasher · « **Reply #8 on:** 04 May 2018, 04:25:54 pm »

Bucket and shim type valves don't get louder as they go out of adjustment, they do the opposite. The shim doesn't wear the the valve seat does which makes the gap between the cam and bucket/shim close, the reason you have to check them is to stop the valve seats from burning out. It is possible to have the gap increase but this is due to cam/bucket/shim ware and would indicate a serious problem with lack of oil.

Most Fazers don't need the shims doing until silly mileages certainly not 26k miles or 42km that should just be a check. Reset the tensioner, either by rotating the back wheel backwards while in gear for half turn, or removing the tensioner and resetting it, the latter is the best option. It is possible the tensioner has had it but it's unusual.

Ministras · « **Reply #9 on:** 20 May 2018, 09:13:59 pm »

Quote from: Gnasher on 04 May 2018, 04:25:54 pm

Bucket and shim type valves don't get louder as they go out of adjustment, they do the opposite. The shim doesn't wear the the valve seat does which makes the gap between the cam and bucket/shim close, the reason you have to check them is to stop the valve seats from burning out. It is possible to have the gap increase but this is due to cam/bucket/shim ware and would indicate a serious problem with lack of oil.

Most Fazers don't need the shims doing until silly mileages certainly not 26k miles or 42km that should just be a check. Reset the tensioner, either by rotating the back wheel backwards while in gear for half turn, or removing the tensioner and resetting it, the latter is the best option. It is possible the tensioner has had it but it's unusual.

Thanks for the advice, ill try it. Had a lot going on, but the next week is free.

Ministras · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 May 2018, 10:53:48 am »

Went to the mechanic. Bad news, he thinks the chain needs replacing. He also says, that you need to replace the tensioner and head gasket. Which means 400+++ euros with head gasket alone being 200 euros. Ill try to call different people and see what they can make it work.

Gnasher · « **Reply #11 on:** 21 May 2018, 11:10:18 am »

Quote from: Ministras on 21 May 2018, 10:53:48 am

Went to the mechanic. Bad news, he thinks the chain needs replacing. He also says, that you need to replace the tensioner and head gasket. Which means 400+++ euros with head gasket alone being 200 euros. Ill try to call different people and see what they can make it work.

I smell a rat a big rat here it's possible your tensioner/chain has gone but at only 40km doubtful, the head gasket has nothing to do with that noise. If you brought the bike to me I'd reset the tensioner first, at worse replace it, if that didn't solve it then you'd be looking at a cam chain replacement.

The head gasket is fine I've never known an OE one to fail on a Fazer ever!

Take it elsewhere somewhere others recommend, this guy/shop is just looking at your money. They'll more than likely reset the tensioner keep it for a few days and give it back telling you they done all the work. It's a very very common occurrence these days, why it's easy money

redmandan · « **Reply #12 on:** 21 May 2018, 11:28:11 am »

Sorry to hear of your troubles ministras. I had this exact same problem a few months ago. I decided to replace the cam chain myself. It was a little out of my experience range (and I required extra tools) but in the end I spent around €200 incl delivery and little extras.

The mechanic is talking about breaking the engine and fitting an endless chain. This is, in his defence, the professional way to do it, but it is labour intensive. €400 all in is not too far wrong.

You should try and reset the tensioner yourself though first as it might be the easy fix. Here's a short vid I made when I did mine.
https://youtu.be/wUBJ76LJVts

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 May 2018, 01:10:06 pm »

Head gasket doesn't need to be touched by a competent mechanic. The adjuster wont need replacing either if it works.
I have just been quoted around £300 to do the camchain on my bike. the adjuster is at full stretch.

A genuine Yamaha chain is around £40. The rest is the 3-4 hours labour to do the job.

Ministras · « **Reply #14 on:** 21 May 2018, 01:29:26 pm »

Quote from: Gnasher on 21 May 2018, 11:10:18 am

Quote from: Ministras on 21 May 2018, 10:53:48 am
Went to the mechanic. Bad news, he thinks the chain needs replacing. He also says, that you need to replace the tensioner and head gasket. Which means 400+++ euros with head gasket alone being 200 euros. Ill try to call different people and see what they can make it work.

I smell a rat a big rat here it's possible your tensioner/chain has gone but at only 40km doubtful, the head gasket has nothing to do with that noise. If you brought the bike to me I'd reset the tensioner first, at worse replace it, if that didn't solve it then you'd be looking at a cam chain replacement.

The head gasket is fine I've never known an OE one to fail on a Fazer ever!

Take it elsewhere somewhere others recommend, this guy/shop is just looking at your money. They'll more than likely reset the tensioner keep it for a few days and give it back telling you they done all the work. It's a very very common occurrence these days, why it's easy money

Same here, seemed a little strange why you should replace the head gasket when you can just use a breaking chain(whatever its called). Ill look around, aint paying 400-500 euros for a bike this old.

Ministras · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 May 2018, 01:45:53 pm »

A quick question, if cam chain tensioner is stretched to the max wont i damage my engine by resetting it (too loose cam chain)?

Gnasher · « **Reply #16 on:** 21 May 2018, 02:14:51 pm »

Quote from: Ministras on 21 May 2018, 01:45:53 pm

A quick question, if cam chain tensioner is stretched to the max wont i damage my engine by resetting it (too loose cam chain)?

If the chain has had it it won't make any difference what tensioner you fit new or otherwise. Fazer (as do many other bikes) have a tendency to suffer stuck tensioners, it's also possible they just need a little help to go to the next notch. These are auto adjust and work on a one way ratchet system, what can and does happen is the slack (I'm talking mm) in the chain just isn't enough to allow the ratchet to move to the next tooth, in which case the chain runs slightly slack and is noisy. The cause can be several things the the man ones are, not revving the bike enough, cheap/low oil which prematurely wears the chain, a stuck tensioner.

You can reset it by putting the bike in gear and turning the rear wheel backwards half a turn, this turn the engine backwards and creates enough slack in the chain to allow the tensioner to move to the next tooth, it's not always successful. You can also remove it and reset it manually, it's all very straight forward and requires little skill, how to do that is in the manual which a copy of which you should be able to find on the site. Or you could buy a new OE one and just fit it, if none of the above work the chain is then more than likely shot, which would support my suspicion this bike has been clocked and is of a far higher mileage than you believe. either of the above will cost you way less then replacing the cam chain and can easily be done by you or someone you know and has some engineering skill with nothing more than the tool kit in the bike. It's also possible it's just not been looked after i.e. missed oil changes or poor quality oil having been used, both of which will prematurely ware the cam chain.

Farmboy81 · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 May 2018, 09:35:36 am »

Quote from: Gnasher on 21 May 2018, 02:14:51 pm

You can reset it by putting the bike in gear and turning the rear wheel backwards half a turn

[/size]Thanks mate, just tried this and it's solved one of the many noises my engine makes!

Ministras · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 May 2018, 08:15:34 pm »

Sorry guys, didnt want to invest too much money into the bike, so i sold it at a slight loss. Whats even stranger, that i sold it in 24 hours for 100 euro less.

Paul · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 May 2018, 11:40:54 am »

My Fazers done 93,000 miles. It started to rattle (cam chain) around 60,000 miles, and then it stopped rattling at 85,000 miles.
I've never replaced the cam chain or adjusted the valve clearances and I've had the bike from new.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #20 on:** 30 May 2018, 10:13:06 pm »

Quote from: Paul on 26 May 2018, 11:40:54 am

My Fazers done 93,000 miles. It started to rattle (cam chain) around 60,000 miles, and then it stopped rattling at 85,000 miles.
I've never replaced the cam chain or adjusted the valve clearances and I've had the bike from new.

I'm guessing you gave it regular oil changes? What's your riding style like? Do you keep the revs low? What does the engine sound like now? 93,000 miles is fairly impressive on the same cam chain

Paul · « **Reply #21 on:** 31 May 2018, 08:51:11 am »

My riding style is rev the nuts of it. But I change the oil every year and I've run it on fully synthetic all its life.

Gnasher · « **Reply #22 on:** 31 May 2018, 12:16:03 pm »

I've had many Fazers in over the years that have 100k plus 1 had 150k still on same cam chain sounded sweet.

Most tensioners/cam chains fail due to owners not revving them hard enough, using crap or insufficient oil and not changing it at correct intervals.

mobile mouse · « **Reply #23 on:** 31 May 2018, 10:04:00 pm »

Hi,

"reset it by putting the bike in gear and turning the rear wheel backwards half a turn, this turn the engine backwards and [/font]creates enough slack in the chain to allow the tensioner to move to the next tooth"

I put the bike in 1st gear and tried to push the bike backwards it just stopped and no amount of pulling on bars would turn the engine backwards...

My Fazer has just clocked over 50k miles and has a rattle which i expect it's cam chain. I am not worried just thought this simple reset of the adjuster would be easy but far from it.
Am I missing anything...

Hugh Mungus · « **Reply #24 on:** 01 June 2018, 04:45:16 am »

It's easier to use 2nd gear instead of 1st.
If you take the spark plugs out the engine will be easier to turn.