Fazer Owners Club - Unofficial
General => General => Topic started by: Carlsv8 on 10 May 2017, 06:56:54 pm
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Got stopped today by a non traffic police car, I overtook a P driver on a long straight 30mph road who was doing about 25 mph and she was to be honest appalling, I'd followed her round a roundabout and she virtually right angled it at about 10 mph.As luck would have it there was a police car (non traffic) a bit behind me, cue blue lights followed by 'I could do you for 47mph and careless driving' but he gave me a lecture instead which was fair enough, seemed like a decent bloke, I'm sure I didn't do 47 and it was a safe overtake. Question is can a single, non traffic car policeman do you for speeding or anything else for that matter, I thought if there was no video evidence there had to be 2 witnesses.
Ironically further down the road I was stuck, in a 60 limit, behind the 'P' driver doing about 35mph for about 5 miles along with, you guessed it, the police car.
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Short answer - yes
Slightly longer answer, they may not be able to do you for a specific speed due to non-calibrated speedos in non traffic cars but can do you for exceeding the limit.
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That's news to me.
I'd just deny all, he can't do anything. Even with two of them, there's no evidence. At least that's how it is north of the border.
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Used to be the case that you had to be clocked over a certain distance, can't remember how far, but my indiscretion was momentary'ish. Bit more vigilance next time I think. Peed me off a bit him slagging my riding as I've passed the IAM test and done a few riding courses with the police ( these were brilliant) but obviously I thought better of pointing this out, observation skills need a bit of work ;)
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Decided against the 'Have you got nowt better to do' statement as well
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I might of asked politely what was actually wrong with the overtake, if you think it was a fair overtake which ticked all the IAM boxes.
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a couple of points
you on the bike or in a car, if a bike then how were you stuck behind the learner for 5 miles (remember stepping stones?)
if he's non traffic (i.e. the car, as you don't know if he's ever worked traffic and knows the subtleties of traffic law) then stand your ground and get him to explain why it was wrong to do what you did?
if he had no speed gun type apparatus in the car then how could he say you were doing a certain speed let alone careless driving?
if he wasn't ex traffic then he probably doesn't even know about IAM or RoSPA, I got talking to two in a plod car who were clueless and queried why I'd want to even join RoSPA and do road safety
The days of the Courts taking a Coppers word over Joe Public has long gone, a lot of them are liars and Judges see right through them especially after a decent brief has tore them up for arse paper
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a couple of points
you on the bike or in a car, if a bike then how were you stuck behind the learner for 5 miles (remember stepping stones?)
if he's non traffic (i.e. the car, as you don't know if he's ever worked traffic and knows the subtleties of traffic law) then stand your ground and get him to explain why it was wrong to do what you did?
if he had no speed gun type apparatus in the car then how could he say you were doing a certain speed let alone careless driving?
if he wasn't ex traffic then he probably doesn't even know about IAM or RoSPA, I got talking to two in a plod car who were clueless and queried why I'd want to even join RoSPA and do road safety
The days of the Courts taking a Coppers word over Joe Public has long gone, a lot of them are liars and Judges see right through them especially after a decent brief has tore them up for arse paper
I was on my Fazer 6 and was stuck behind the P driver and the cop car for 5 miles after I was stopped and had set off again on my ride. No way was I going to overtake the policeman that had just pulled me and given me a 'chat'. I haven't been pulled for roughly 15 years made it a bit of an odd feeling, especially if you think you are going to lose your clean licence when I wouldn't trust a lot of people on the road with a dodgem car, including the P driver, which incidentally the observant policeman said was a 'L' driver, obviously didn't point that out either.
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I don't think it's worth going up against the babylon, they've got long memories. Best keep them sweet, choose your battles wisely. I was chummy with one years ago (well he was married to my sister at the time). If you got stopped for anything- bike, car or otherwise, i.e. drunk, noisy or walking the streets late at night, they would 'attitude test' you. If you weren't courteous and respectful they could always find an excuse to give you grief. Human nature really.
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When stopped by the police you always have to say the following. They love it and on hearing this they will, 99 times out of 100 let you off.
1. I pay your wages.
2. Ain't you got nuffin better to do, like go and catch some real criminals.
3. Were you bullied at school or sumfink?.
They love all that! It's witty and original. :-P
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When stopped by the police you always have to say the following. They love it and on hearing this they will, 99 times out of 100 let you off.
1. I pay your wages.
2. Ain't you got nuffin better to do, like go and catch some real criminals.
3. Were you bullied at school or sumfink?.
They love all that! It's witty and original. :-P
I'll remember these for the next time and also to ask for Inspector Regan cos he's a propa coppa while checking my phone for texts.
Bottom line is I should have left 'Dangerous Doris' or whatever her name was to her motor car meanderings and hung back.
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Peed me off a bit him slagging my riding as I've passed the IAM test and done a few riding courses with the police ( these were brilliant) but obviously I thought better of pointing this out, observation skills need a bit of work ;)
Sensible, given that, if they know you've done Advanced Training, that lowers the level for "Careless driving", since you'd be expected to be above the standard of Joe Public!
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I might of asked politely what was actually wrong with the overtake, if you think it was a fair overtake which ticked all the IAM boxes.
Current IAM (well, actually "IAM Roadsmart" now) guidance says roughly:"You should not start an overtake which would require you to exceed the speed limit. If circumstances change during the overtake (eg the vehicle you're passing speeding up) then you should react in the way that would be safest for you and other road users".
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That's news to me.
I'd just deny all, he can't do anything. Even with two of them, there's no evidence. At least that's how it is north of the border.
:agree
A defence liar would certainly argue the fact there really is no evidence whatsoever, and it's your word against his.
It literally would be a case of "Prove it, otherwise see ya later and stop wasting my time and go get a life!"
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with darsii
the days of judges taking the word of a cop as gospel are long gone, a lot of cops tell lies and with no evidence a court would laugh it out
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The police have a speedo. its just not calibrated so accuracy is arguable. They can still say you were travelling in excess of 40mph in a 30mph limit and it would be taken as sufficient evidence that you were going too fast.
IF they were to say you were going 35 in a 30 then it could be argued.
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Just maybe it was an unmarked traffic car. Carl passed the "attitude" test and just got a friendly talking to!
I remember a few years ago, one broke down outside my shop. Had a chat with the driver and it turned out there was so much electronic equipment in there it was constantly flattening the battery.
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If you were trundling along at 25 with a cop car a few cars behind - he to going 25 how can he say you were over going 30 when you over took, - he cant unless it was clear you nailed it past the p driver. He may argue careless driving (his opinion ).
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No cars behind me apart from him well back, none coming the other way, not sat on the tail of the car, (only a **** hits the car in front, as my IAM instructor bloke used to say, his version of the 2 second rule) no R.H. junction to worry about. A proper 'sweeping' overtake not pulling directly in front of the car (really pees me off when people do this then slow down). May (!) have exceeded the limit during the overtake (bikes are fast) but backed off when on my side of the road. The town I was travelling through is a bit, well I wouldn't live there, had a few police cars kicking about so I think I was wrong place wrong time, and I wasn't done just talked at so no harm done really; ironical that he, along with a line of traffic, was stuck behind the car soon after.
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A pal of mine was on his way to work. Leaving town, just before the national speed limit sign he passed three vehicles, the front one a police van. Police van put on music and lights. My pal thought, foc this, and nailed it (CBR600RR with tiny number plate).
It’s only a few miles to his work, major employer, in the middle of nowhere. Police took a guess at where he might have headed and guessed right. I turned up to find pal arguing with one very angry looking cop and one other cop who looked slightly embarrassed.
My pal denied all, and said he never at any point exceeded 60mph (he nailed it). Told them it must have been some other biker.
Angry policeman contacted traffic division. They advised him to forget it and check over his bike to see if anything was amiss. They issued notice for small number plate.
I got pulled by local cops a couple of years back. Inner city Dual carriageway, coming up to light, they accused me of undertaking them and pulling across then at a red light. I was polite, but I asked them if they were serious, and told them I did nothing wrong, and I certainly did not perform an undertake as I was slowing down and I simply took the best position at the lights. They were a bit frustrated, checked my bike, ran checks etc, then sent me on my way.
Did get caught by Dunoon police. Bleedin timer unit in car. Pissed off as I should have clocked them. Annoyed as they timed me over ¾ mile, just as I got suspicious of the car that had just previously slowed down and was holding me up, which was now following me at high speed, well they hit the music and lights. 3 points and 100 quid fine. Prats with nothing better to do than chase their bleedin KPI’s.
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technically you did undertake mate, the moment you pulled across them
if someone is doing 60 in lane 3 of the motorway and you move from 3 to 2 and continue past them at 70 its not an undertake if you stay in lane 2, its only an undertake once you pass them and move back to lane 3 (from a traffic bike cop who I know)
sounds like yours were being a bit arsey but they eventually got you :lol
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technically you did undertake mate, the moment you pulled across them
You gonna issue me a ticket?
Who cares.
The point is, that unless I agree with them and state I am guilty, there is nothing they can do, other than check my license and my bike etc.
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If you are on your C90 you can always outrun them :) . Not much catches the. 'Mighty Ninety'. Had a C70 myself back in the day, 90 was just too brutal for me at the time.
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Funny thing is I got pulled a few times on my C90 :lol
One time they were getting a bit smart wi me. I was still sitting on the bike when they asked the registration number, I leaned forward and read it off the front number plate nice and slow for them - G S D 7 7 7 N.
That got me my first breathalyser test.
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I might of asked politely what was actually wrong with the overtake, if you think it was a fair overtake which ticked all the IAM boxes.
Current IAM (well, actually "IAM Roadsmart" now) guidance says roughly:"You should not start an overtake which would require you to exceed the speed limit. If circumstances change during the overtake (eg the vehicle you're passing speeding up) then you should react in the way that would be safest for you and other road users".
:agree
If you where speeding passed the P driver then you were in the wrong, but if she was doing 25 and it was safe to do so and you had the space you could have easily overtaken her at 30. The copper can't say what speed you was doing if he didn't have some kind of instrument or was in a position to follow you for the given distance to work out distance v time of measured distance (white squares painted on roads) it would be hie judgement and wouldn't stand in court. My guess is you didn't do a nice copy book over take and there wasn't sufficient time/distance to over take without excessive speed.
When you hit the 60 and she was doing 25 you could have just over taken within the limit when it was safe to do so.
Oh doing 25 in a 30 or 60 isn't dangerous, I grant you it's annoying but it not dangerous on the other hand overtaking in 30's where there's insufficient distance is, that's why you got pulled matey. Suck it up and don't do it again :D ;) :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
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I'd argue doing 25 or 30 in a 60 is dangerous, hence we have mandatory speed limits too
try doing them speeds on an advanced test and you'd be pulled over straight away by the examiner and asked WTF are you playing at before being failed
try doing 50 on a motorway in lane 1 and watch how many vehicles approach you really fast when only doing 70 and then have to switch lanes, get upto speed
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I'd argue doing 25 or 30 in a 60 is dangerous, hence we have mandatory speed limits too
These are maximum speed limits and you can over take when it's safe to do so, it's often not safe to do the maximum permitted speed due to road conditions. This was one of them.
try doing them speeds on an advanced test and you'd be pulled over straight away by the examiner and asked WTF are you playing at before being failed
He wasn't on a advanced course and this was a P driver, if you'd had done the same on an advanced test you'd have failed
try doing 50 on a motorway in lane 1 and watch how many vehicles approach you really fast when only doing 70 and then have to switch lanes, get upto speed
Yes that's why there's 3 lanes to allow for slower traffic, it's the responsibility of drivers to adjust their speed, move into lane 2 or 3 if safe to do so if not slow down until you can. The beauty of riding a bike is you're never stuck for long so what's all the hurry?
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Gnasher, I think you're talking bollox mate and I'm not being confrontational her, to answer your points:
every road has a limit and you drive to conditions too, why was this not one of them
whether he's on an advanced test or not, overtaking a P driver is not against the law and you wouldn't fail a test, you'd be more likely to fail it if you sat behind when an overtake was possible....given you don't break the limit. Saying that, I know certain examiners would let it go once instead of you sitting in a potential dangerous position (my examiner gave me the opportunity of following him outside a mile long line of standing traffic, otherwise the first hour of my test would've seen me sat in a queue
unless you're a slow moving wagon or learner on the motorway, most vehicles are surprised by someone doing 50 as its not expected, good observations are key to progressing but most people don't have that skill without taking further training. I still stand by my remarks about doing 50% of the speed in a given speed zone is dangerous if there's no other factors involved and its just down to a slow driver
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Gnasher, I think you're talking bollox mate and I'm not being confrontational her, to answer your points:
every road has a limit and you drive to conditions too, why was this not one of them
whether he's on an advanced test or not, overtaking a P driver is not against the law and you wouldn't fail a test, you'd be more likely to fail it if you sat behind when an overtake was possible....given you don't break the limit. Saying that, I know certain examiners would let it go once instead of you sitting in a potential dangerous position (my examiner gave me the opportunity of following him outside a mile long line of standing traffic, otherwise the first hour of my test would've seen me sat in a queue
unless you're a slow moving wagon or learner on the motorway, most vehicles are surprised by someone doing 50 as its not expected, good observations are key to progressing but most people don't have that skill without taking further training. I still stand by my remarks about doing 50% of the speed in a given speed zone is dangerous if there's no other factors involved and its just down to a slow driver
Im with you.
It may be called a speed limit, but it is also the recommended speed for any given road, so that all road user can make a safe and progressive journey.
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Gnasher, I think you're talking bollox mate and I'm not being confrontational her, to answer your points:
I see really, the only bollocks anywhere here matey is you, just check out the what you've written :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
every road has a limit and you drive to conditions too, why was this not one of them
The P driver was doing 25 in a 30 or so it was stated that's 5 mph under the maximum, this is a P driver, he got stopped as the officer had the opinion he was either doing an excessive speed or over took when it wasn't safe to do so.
whether he's on an advanced test or not, overtaking a P driver is not against the law and you wouldn't fail a test, you'd be more likely to fail it if you sat behind when an overtake was possible....given you don't break the limit.
Sitting behind a P driver at 5 mph under the maximum isn't a dangerous position, over taking at excessive speed or when not safe to do so is, hence he got stopped. I know loads of advanced instructors who wouldn't give you a second chance on a test, they may while training but not during a test.
Saying that, I know certain examiners would let it go once instead of you sitting in a potential dangerous position (my examiner gave me the opportunity of following him outside a mile long line of standing traffic, otherwise the first hour of my test would've seen me sat in a queue
This is a completely different situation and you were inside the law i.e. not using excessive speed.
unless you're a slow moving wagon or learner on the motorway, most vehicles are surprised by someone doing 50 as its not expected, good observations are key to progressing but most people don't have that skill without taking further training. I still stand by my remarks about doing 50% of the speed in a given speed zone is dangerous if there's no other factors involved and its just down to a slow driver
Bollocks utter bollocks, use the other 2 lanes anyone getting surprised by slower moving traffic on a motorway isn't driving with due care and attention. We drive in this country to the conditions of the road at the time not to some made up rule i.e. you must be doing 50% of the maximum permitted limit what total bollocks is that :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin :rollin
There's also a little thing called due care and attention, over taking P drives in 30mph areas at what the officer deemed 45mph isn't due care that's why he was stopped. Getting caught out by slower moving traffic on a motorway isn't showing attention. Driving as you are trying to justify is what causes many RTC's where people are driving too fast and not the the road conditions, making last minute manoeuvres to avoid hitting slower traffic and causing others to brake or manoeuvre into the path of others.
Im with you.
It may be called a speed limit, but it is also the recommended speed for any given road, so that all road user can make a safe and progressive journey.
As I said these are maximum not you got the drive at that speed.
I'm going to step away now, I'd like to hear from advanced instructors or traffic police, what's your view? I know there a good few on here :D
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we'll have to disagree on a lot of this, you obviously think my comments are hilarious by your use of emoji's. If the cop thought it was that dangerous he'd have booked him but he had no proof. The OP stated there was no oncoming traffic or that it was a dangerous situation. All the cop done was to get a rider to sit back in a 60 coz he was worried about being pulled again......great road safety!
I never said to drive at 50, re read my post....I said people driving at 50 on a motorway are a danger and agree with the points you make there.....undue care and attention is down to piss poor observation but are you telling me that you think people doing 50% of the limit in any area with no other dangerous factors is ok?
limits are limits, not targets but when there are no underlying adverse factors then the max speed should be adhered to, going back to the OP it still appears to me that the cop was a bit over the top but none of us can make the call without being only the original poster stated knows what was what
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50 on a motorway is a danger, obviously not to those people who have 100% perfect observation 100% of the time, but to to 99% who don't.
1-2-3-5mph any speed up to 30 in a 30 zone is not dangerous because they are residential areas and you can expect to turn a corner and meet someone pulling out of their parking spot, what is dangerous is going around a corner at 30 and not expecting it to happen.
25 in a 30 is not dangerous and is only annoying to people who want to go 40
Many times I feel that going 30 in a 30 is also annoying to a lot of people and when I turn off like to give me a blast of their horn to show their annoyance.
On a motorbike the over taking a 25mph "P" driver, I don't see anything wrong in that so long as the manoeuvre did not take to over-take-ee over 30.
However the same manoeuvre done in a much wider and slower car I would consider it to be dangerous, I think the copper just doesn't like bikes.