Where has me nut post gone then !!

[fazersharp]

   My post about 98s fazers sprocket nuts has gone, without so much as a by-your-leave. WHY
here it is on google cached to recap  http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SRqZKQ2cfusJ:foc-u.co.uk/index.php%3Ftopic%3D9738.0+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

[noggythenog]

This happens sometimes ,when the site is having difficulties it deletes some posts, i dont think its personalor anything youve said as thats the ace thing about foc-u. Everything goes! 

[darrsi]

Yeah, i think i left it pointing out "John 087's" earlier comment in the post about the nut falling off his '98 bike, which for some reason you've chosen to ignore? 

[fazersharp]

In the intrest of putting you right here is his post
 

Mines a 98 fazer and the front sprocket nut came off. Had to get a friend of mine in the uk to get the updated nut as the dealer in ireland couldnt get me one. Its done about 9500 miles and no problems since.

Here is my reply   

ah ha I see
had the sprockets been changed befor the nut came off
Also anyone who has has had an issue had to have the drive shaft replaced -not because of a thread strip issue but because the dealer measured it to be less than 17.5.
And if you have one less than 17.5 is putting on the 12mm nut a problem. By that i mean dont bother as it is the shaft that is no good 

Note my question "had the sprockets been changed befor the nut came off" Here is his reply[/color]

Had done about 2000 miles after buying the bike. But it did look like the old locking tab was used when the previous owner did the chain and sprockets. Logged

And my reply to that

    Ok so I dont think that one counts as a 98 fazer with the issue -as it had already been off by somone since the factory fitted it, and it is unkown how well it was put back.    Logged 

How is that ignoring

[noggythenog]

So it seems that this is more an issue of principal then Fazersharp, you probably know that everyone should change their nuts as it is such a cheap mod but your thought is still that 98 models on the original nut, sprocket @ chain should be ok as the only person so far with issue on a 98 had actually had the nut off to change sprocket.


Still a brave man that takes this risk & so we're looking for someone with a 98 0n original nut sprocket & chain who has had the nut drama.


Will the real slim shady please stand up.


Could be worth another post asking this specific question, just what the site needs , allmin the interest of science,    science

[darrsi]

In the intrest of putting you right here is his post
 

Mines a 98 fazer and the front sprocket nut came off. Had to get a friend of mine in the uk to get the updated nut as the dealer in ireland couldnt get me one. Its done about 9500 miles and no problems since.

Here is my reply   

ah ha I see
had the sprockets been changed befor the nut came off
Also anyone who has has had an issue had to have the drive shaft replaced -not because of a thread strip issue but because the dealer measured it to be less than 17.5.
And if you have one less than 17.5 is putting on the 12mm nut a problem. By that i mean dont bother as it is the shaft that is no good 

Note my question "had the sprockets been changed befor the nut came off" Here is his reply

Had done about 2000 miles after buying the bike. But it did look like the old locking tab was used when the previous owner did the chain and sprockets. Logged

And my reply to that

    Ok so I dont think that one counts as a 98 fazer with the issue -as it had already been off by somone since the factory fitted it, and it is unkown how well it was put back.    Logged 

How is that ignoring

 
Okay, i hear yer, although 'how well it was put back on' shouldn't really sway your decision to change it anyway should it?
No point in finding out the hard way down the line, as the evidence still suggests that the nut in question simply doesn't have enough threads on it for the job in hand, and as far as i know you still have the same original nut as everyone else?

[fazersharp]

 

so we're looking for someone with a 98 0n original nut sprocket & chain who has had the nut drama.

Thats it

Okay, i hear yer, although 'how well it was put back on' shouldn't really sway your decision to change it anyway should it?
No point in finding out the hard way down the line, as the evidence still suggests that the nut in question simply doesn't have enough threads on it for the job in hand, and as far as i know you still have the same original nut as everyone else?

The putting it back on point is that 1 or two posters said that they had the issue, but then it turned out that the factory fitted nut had been taken off by the preivious owner to change sprockets and it then came off.
I 100% agree that 99 onwards need to replace the nut. All I was doing was trying to find yams statement that 98 fazers wer not affected to be wrong, but all I have found is that they are right.
I should be getting my nut from webmoto tomorrow I got it as I was ordering other stuff and cost no extra in post, but im not sure if I will be fitting it, as it looks like 98s dont need to
 
     

[Hedgetrimmer]

I really don't see why you wouldn't put the 12mm nut on. It's so cheap and easy to do, surely you might as well do it and be 100% sure you won't get the problem, rather thannot do it and not be 100% sure you won't? And all this about trained mechanics, jeez, you're doing up a nut and folding over a tab washer! If you torque it to the recommended tightness, maybe even Loctite it for good measure, can someone explain to me where you could go wrong?

[fazersharp]

The only reason why you wouldnt do it is because yamaha says it dosent need doing on a 98- they say it needs doing on others.
Its not just the nut tho is it-- £10 nut with post, £10 loctite 620, £30 torque wrench, poss damage to wheel spokes/ swing arm when you jamb a peice of 3by2 in there. People doing it on the side stand and winding it forward and off the side stand.
Im saying you have to do it on 99 to-whatever year and you should do it when you change your sprockets on a 98, but if you still have a factory fitted nut them yam says no need

[Dead Eye]

All I was doing was trying to find yams statement that 98 fazers wer not affected to be wrong, but all I have found is that they are right.
     

I would question this as just because there has been no information to the contrary yet does not mean that Yamaha are right. We can say we haven't proven them wrong, but that still doesn't make them right :P

Scientific hypothesis logic ^^

[Hedgetrimmer]

Why doesn't a Yamaha-fitted nut need to be replaced? Do they have some special way of fitting the original?

[fazersharp]

 

Why doesn't a Yamaha-fitted nut need to be replaced? Do they have some special way of fitting the original?

Exactly -Remember we are talking about 98 fazers, what is diferent about a 98 that means that yam says they are ok and a 99 onwards is not. Im not saying a 98 refitted 9mm nut by us is bad, but you have to rule out any 98s with a loose nut that has been refitted- by who knows. So far no one has reported a 98 with an untouched factory fitted nut that has come off, of the 98s I have found with a loose nut it turns out it has already been refitted at some point 

[Hedgetrimmer]

Unless Yamaha are saying with a new nut and shaft thread you can take it to a higher torque than if it's been off a couple of times, and they're using such a high torque at the factory? Never seen anything to support that idea tho.

[fazersharp]

Does anyone know why yamaha are saying 98s are ok

[Dave48]

I wouldn't take a statement from a manufacturer as gospel. Listen to the owners -some of whom found out the hard way. Its very simple engineering/physics really! Isnt this one of the reasons we use forums-to benefit from the experience/knowledge of others?

[Dead Eye]

Does anyone know why yamaha are saying 98s are ok

Because they'd rather not have to deal with possibility of replacing the output shaft on your bike if it is found to be at fault - its an expensive and time consuming job for them

Plus, its a 15 year old bike and so the information is probably lost somewhere in some headquarters or something like that

[fazersharp]

I wouldn't take a statement from a manufacturer as gospel. Listen to the owners -some of whom found out the hard way. Its very simple engineering/physics really! Isnt this one of the reasons we use forums-to benefit from the experience/knowledge of others?

Exactly ---listen to the owners, so far not a single 98 I can find with the issue, that had an origional factory fitted nut fall off

[noggythenog]

I wouldn't take a statement from a manufacturer as gospel. Listen to the owners -some of whom found out the hard way. Its very simple engineering/physics really! Isnt this one of the reasons we use forums-to benefit from the experience/knowledge of others?

Exactly ---listen to the owners, so far not a single 98 I can find with the issue, that had an origional factory fitted nut fall off

I would post the question up,perhaps as a poll.?


Trouble is allot of the old guard that know more about this have perhaps moved on.


If you ask the specific question & keep it bumped up on the forum you should get a spread of data to analyse because at the moment we're working on too few participants.


Lets get to the bottom of this!

[darrsi]

Maybe all the '98's fell apart and got broken down for spares? 

[fazersharp]

I would post the question up,perhaps as a poll.?
Trouble is allot of the old guard that know more about this have perhaps moved on.
If you ask the specific question & keep it bumped up on the forum you should get a spread of data to analyse because at the moment we're working on too few participants.
Lets get to the bottom of this!

Great idea, so where is the best place to put it.
Might do it as
All 98 fzs600 owners sprocket nut help needed.
Give a background as to what im looking for, but wont keep on bumping it up piss people off.
By the way I have received my new nut today

[Dead Eye]

I would wager that you would have just as much trouble finding the answer to that question for any specific year of Fazer. There are too few active members on the forum who have had the bike from new - there's probably a handful on the site of the some 7,000+ Fazers registered in the UK

[fazersharp]

Good point
Although they dont have to have it from new, just the knowlege that the sprockets are origional would do. I know still a tall order as most that age have had new ones by now.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Have you tried contacting Yamaha UK for an answer (can't remember if you did or not)? Might be worth it, if they're willing to give an open opinion.
 
01932 358000 (switchboard - ask for technical: wow, just remembered that no.  (checked it just in case) off the top of my head from last using it about 5 years ago!)

[TonyW]

Mine is a 99 though its on the original sprockets. I get the wheels back today after having new tyres fitted so will swap the nut later today and also measure the shaft. Anyone know the correct torque for the modified nut? Standard torque is 70Nm but I've seen on here 90Nm but that might be too much if the shaft threads are shallow in the nut.

[darrsi]

Mine is a 99 though its on the original sprockets. I get the wheels back today after having new tyres fitted so will swap the nut later today and also measure the shaft. Anyone know the correct torque for the modified nut? Standard torque is 70Nm but I've seen on here 90Nm but that might be too much if the shaft threads are shallow in the nut.

A few people have gone the specified 90Nm, and a few others stopped at 80Nm including myself, the choice is yours!!