Date: 23-09-17  Time: 03:02 AM

Author Topic: Lost your front sprocket and washer???  (Read 17558 times)

John Silva

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 649
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« on: 04 January 2011, 06:33:57 PM »
Originally posted by slidesvill on 27/06/04


This seems to be getting a common problem, and I'd like some info off the foccers that have lost your front sprocket nut. I consider this as a fault with the FAZER, and intend to email/speak to YAMAHA over this problem, I think they should look into this before something serious happens...

Could you please let me know the following
1, Year of the bike
2, Mileage
3, Was it the original chain and sprockets
4, Was it a warranty claim
5, Did you have an accident because of this fault or been put in a dangerous situation.

Please give me your input.

slidey



Reply posted by Alan Sherman 26/07/2005


This happened to me twice now. Basically the lock washer retains its splines and the bent over tabs so we can totally discount the nut actually unscrewing as a cause of failure. What fails is the thread on the nut (the threads on the shaft remain in cases where the damaged nut is found quickly).
 
Possible causes of nut error are:
 
User error: Too high a torque used in assembly for the nut.
I think this can be discounted due to the large number of people that have had the problem - a lot have never removed the nut since buying the bike. The torque value is well known in the manuals and it is easy to apply a torque wrench to the nut.

Manufacturing fault; perhaps there was a batch of faulty nuts or driveshafts - either physical or material tolerances out compared to the design spec.
I think this can be discounted as the nuts have failed on a number of bikes (including models) across the range of years of manufacture.

Poorly designed / specified nut / driveshaft interface. Basically the combination of very fine threads, the low number of threads that are actually used to take the load, the specified torque, perhaps the tolerances specified for the nut / driveshaft mating surfaces and the nut material is a poor combination for the designed use.
I really think this is the problem as the nuts have failed across Thundercat, Fazer (and did I hear R6 too?) models, and across the production years. It's be interesting to see what other bikes use the same nut part number and see if there are other problems. I'd hope Yamaha are looking at this.

So what happens now? Yamaha are very closed about it all - not surprising really when you think about the cost of a recall to fit new nuts to the thousands of bike on the road. But going further there is also the implied liability that goes with it which would require Yamaha to replace the driveshaft for people that have had the nut fail that has in turn damaged the driveshaft threads (this job involves taking the engine out, splitting the cases and stripping down the gearbox to replace. It is awfully expensive). All this for discontinued models.....

I am surprised that Yamaha have not changed the design of the nut yet (they hadn't when I ordered a couple in February). They did change the design of the speedo sender drive - the new one is much improved and doesn't break when refitting the wheel so easily.
A new longer nut with a larger number of threads to spread the load, perhaps a revised (lower) torque and maybe a material change would probably solve the problem. I believe someone was trying to get a nut made up at work along these lines.

If we were to gather the evidence in a structured way (bike model, year, vin code, mileage discovered, any replacement chain and sprockets fitted, who fitted etc) to build up the evidence then we could put a strong case to Yamaha (they have already been shown this thread however).

With no response from Yamaha to rectify the problem we could go to the media. We would need strong evidence though.



Reply posted by slidesvill 27/07/2005


The list I noted down of foccers that have lost their gearbox nut/sprocket are:

BOBW (X3)
PEPY27 (X2)
SNOOKY
ICE EAGLE X2
ALISTER X2
BLUE ONES ARE FASTEST
ZARNIWOOP (Loose)
GRIPPA.G
DON BROWNING
RUBBERMAT (X2)? (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
PETE 786
FUNKY UK
ZIGGY COL
ALPINE
SLAYER THE LAWNMOWER MAN
ALAN SHERMAN (X2)? (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
MOOK (Loose)
OLD SON
HAWRANEK
FASERJAY
BEN DIESEL
COOLRIFFS
RICOU
MIKE T
ROCKFAN
SLIDESVILL (Loose)

This problem also effects THUNDERCATS, I've been contacted by there owners club, well it's the same motor!

So far we've contacted Yamaha UK and they are aware of the problem, they have passed it onto Yamaha Japan but we've had nothing back.
I've done several emails to mags, such as Bike, Ride, MCN...but had nothing back, even tried BBC Watchdog nothing
Will compose another email next week but won't hold my breath........isn't there somewhere you can lodge mechanical problems that haven't been recalled, sure I remember someone posting about this??? any idea's....

slidey




Updated list 31 01 2005

Wascommuter (Loose)
Fazer Jett (Loose)
ZiggyCol (Loose)
MikoFZ1
Gordo (Loose)
Fazer Racer (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
Gnasher
Fieryblue
fazerboy01
pete786 (X2) (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
Duggy
Lum
Weedon (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
Fazfighter (Loose)
« Last Edit: 07 January 2011, 08:06:55 PM by John Silva »
Biking is about the Journey NOT the Destination...

John Silva

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 649
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #1 on: 06 January 2011, 01:50:26 PM »
Reply posted by Beach Comber 10/01/2006


Important Update
 
Ok, got a call from the Yam dealer today about my suspected failure, and he told me Yamaha UK are upholding my 'claim' and are going to foot the repair bill.
 
But perhaps more importantly though he said that Yam have now issued a Service Recall covering this, with instructions to check some sort of measurement tolerance on the drive shaft (I pretty sure it was something like that - was still thinking thank foc at the time!). Mine was apparently out hence Yamaha picking up the bill as the shaft needs replaced. I am 100% positive about his use of the term Service Recall though.
 
Slight bad news was the fact that Yam will not shell out for new chain/sprockets set, or perversely new oil and filter as this'll be drained (bloody consumables).
 
Really bad news was that I'm going to be bikeless for 7-10 days while they wait for the parts - bugger. Might see if I can get a loaner.
 
Not complaining to much though as it seems that Yam may have at last recognised this as a serious problem. Might be worth other folk checking with their local dealers to confirm this is official though and being rolled out nationwide.



Reply posted by slidesvill on 19/01/2006

copied from PAUL JOHN's post
 
 
 "Dear Customer,
Yamaha has informed us that certain motorcycles may need a modification to the front drive sprocket nut,
THIS IS NOT A RECALL. If you still own a FZ6, FZS600 Fazer or YZF-R6 and you have not had the mod carried out, then please contact our service department who will be happy to order the relevant parts under warranty and contact you when they are in. For our warranty claim we will need the current mileage and frame and engine number. The modification will be done even if the bike is out of warranty.
 
The reason why it's not on the VOSA web site is because it's NOT a RECALL they've classed it as a modification! will be sending these details on.
 


Reply posted by Alistair on 02/08/2006

The Inspection Notice (not a recall) that Yamaha issued to the Dealerships essentially says the following:
 
 Any FZS600 Fazers model (1998-2003), regardless of whether it still in warranty or has been serviced officially in the Dealer channel can be inspected at any official Dealer.
 
 Remove the existing nut and washer.
 Measure the drive shaft OD of the threaded part (micrometer or vernier caliper).
 If >= 17.5 mm -
 clean threads and fit a new washer & nut with threadlock.
 If < 17.5 mm -
 the drive shaft must be replaced. (This work could take between 1 day to 2 weeks depending on dealer workload).



Reply posted by Hawmaw on 10/01/2007

I've just come over here from the TDM forum and was interested to see this thread.
 
This isn't purely a Fazer problem, the TDM suffers from this as well usually resulting in a stripped shaft and a replacement sprocket spot welded on.
 
Maybe it's a general Yamaha fault. It would be interesting to know if others such as the Thundercat/ace, Divvy , FZR etc have the same problem.



Reply posted by slidesvill on 11/01/2007

I can tell you the Thundercat has the same issue and Yamaha have done nothing about those so I suppose we're lucky in the fact Yamaha will sort FAZER output shafts and sprockets.



Reply posted by limax2 on 07/03/2007

I bought one last week from the local Yam stealer and it's the old one!
Part number: 90179-18020.
6mm thick where it's threaded and with the chamfers you only got 4 full threads.

Photo of a standard nut

Inside of a damaged case

Stripped threads on the nut



Reply posted by limax2 on 09/03/2007

Today I rang Yamaha U.K. and spoke to a very helpful chap in the motorcycle technical dept. who accepted there was a problem  and that all dealers had been issued a service note and that a new nut and lock washer kit was what I needed.

Service note 2005-12A
Nut and lock washer kit 90891-10124

Took the opportunity to do a few measurements to compare old and new. Results herewith-
You can clearly see the increased length of thread engagement with the new nut. An interesting bit is that the depth of the recess has been increased from 3mm to 4mm. Makes me wonder if at certain tolerance limits the old nut could bottom on the spline shoulder. I also suspect the new nut may be made from a higher strength material but I have no real way of checking this.



The full Updated list as of 01 11 2009

BobW (X3)
Pepy27 (X2)
Snooky
Ice Eagle X2
Alister X2
Blue Ones Are Fastest
Zarniwoop (Loose)
Grippa.G
Don Browning
Rubbermat (X2)? (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
Pete 786
FUNKY UK
Ziggy Col
Alpine
Slayer the Lawnmower Man
Alan Sherman (X2)? (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
Mook (Loose)
Old Son
Hawranek
FASERJAY
Ben Diesel
CoolRiffs
Ricou
Mike T
Rockfan
Slidesvill (Loose)
Wascommuter (Loose)
Fazer Jett (Loose)
ZiggyCol (Loose)
MikoFZ1
Gordo (Loose)
Fazer Racer (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
Gnasher
Fieryblue
fazerboy01
pete786 (X2) (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
Duggy
Lum
Weedon (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
Fazfighter (Loose)
Bristolcommuter
ario80
matty (Loose)
karlosfazer600 (Plus Stripped Gearbox Shaft)
seahound
nerdybiker (Loose)
Angel37
Luke
dirtydog
Rick78 (Loose)
Stiggie
Dingus (Loose)
LittleTinyGiant (Loose)
arch33angel (X2)
Scotyam



Reply posted by limax2 on 20/12/2010

Somewhere within this lengthy post I think there is a Yamaha technical bulletin number M2006-003.  That bulletin says the affected range is 1999-2005 YZF-R6 and 2004-2005 FZ6.
For the FZ6 it gives model numbers RJ08E-0000005 to 0028429 and RJ08Y-0000003 to 0000810.
So it MAY effect you if yours is within that range. Most bikes are o.k.
There is no mention of the FZS600 in that bulletin but again buried somewhere within this 8 page post is reference to an "Inspection Notice" issued to Yamaha dealerships covering 1998-2003 FZS600 Fazers. The gist of which was that irrespective of warranty etc. the bike could be inspected and if the shaft was found to be undersized it should be changed, all free of charge.
As to finding a dealer who will still honour this I can't say. A few years ago I measured the gearbox shaft myself and since it was o.k. I just fitted the later type nut. I had to pay about £5 for it as the local dealer didn't want to know about any Yamaha instructions.
« Last Edit: 07 January 2011, 08:08:57 PM by John Silva »
Biking is about the Journey NOT the Destination...

chaz

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 789
    • Main bike:
      Other
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #2 on: 15 March 2012, 09:12:58 AM »
hi, just lost the front sprocket nut off my 05 (reg 06) fz6, it's done 23,700 miles still on original chain, I keep it waxed.

Nobody told me there was a problem with it, it was serviced by yamaha for the first 2 years.

jadedragon

  • Cager in Training
  • Posts: 10
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #3 on: 03 June 2012, 04:04:24 PM »
Hi, i have a 2003 fazer 6, had it 2 years as a summer commuter.

I took it to castle combe bikesafe day yesterday and it lost all drive after a few laps (it was my first time on a track and i wasnt pushing it very hard)

its currently in the garage waiting for the mechanics to come back after the bank holiday but im pretty sure this sprocket nut is the cause of the problem, it has happened to my dad's fazer 6 (2002) twice! once on a motorway with a lorry up his backside and my mum pillion!!

my bike has got 21k miles on it, i havent changed the chain but i dont know if its original or not.

my dad has told me about an aftermarket kit which has a thicker nut or washer number 90891-10124
if i go into a Yam dealer will they supply it at a subsidised cost since it seems to be a design fault?

thanks v much


thesagaciousman

  • Cager in Training
  • Posts: 9
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - Gas Gas EC300
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #4 on: 06 June 2012, 11:07:40 AM »
THIS ^^ just happened last night on the way home from work.
 
I took the sproket cover off to check because I heard a funny noise. Low and behold the front sprocket it loose. Took the nut off and the threads are stripped. Damn, only had the bike since march!
 
Looking at the shaft measurement tolerance, I checked my own and found that it is not a uniform diameter, over say 70% the measurement is over 17.5, but on the inner threads it is more like 17.45. I am going to get the updated nut and washer and try it like that.
 
However, some of the innermost threads are slightly wavy (damaged) its not too bad, but not perfect. So I am afraid that they will strip.
 
Does anyone have any experience of Yamaha France and this problem? What results did you get if any??
 
My plan is to buy the nut and washer, its only 7 euro so not too bad. But I am afraid if the shaft has to be replaced I have no relationship with the local Yamaha Dealer as I only arrived in Pau in February.  :'(
 
Cheers
 
S
Yamaha FZS600 Fazer, 2002 (FR)
Gas Gas EC300, 2007 (FR)
Aprilia SL1000 Falco, 2000 (UK)

YorkieFazer

  • Cager in Training
  • Posts: 4
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #5 on: 24 August 2012, 01:26:37 PM »
After reading this article i checked my '51 plate Fazer 8500miles and noticed it still had the old nut on.

I contacted my local dealer, CMC Clay Cross, Chesterfield.  The service department were very helpful, stated that they had replaced a few of these recently and confirmed that it had not been changed on my bike.  They then promtly ordered the parts and fitted them a week later all free of charge.

Can't fault CMC and their service, I am now riding with a much more relaxed state of mind after reading the horror stories if your nut comes off.

Lawrence

  • WSB Pack Hound
  • *****
  • Posts: 830
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • - CBR1100XX Super Blackbird
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #6 on: 24 September 2012, 08:59:38 PM »
Mine came off this evening, going to speak to my local dealer tomorrow.  Not hopeful about a free fix since it's 11 years old with 33k on the clock and no history but worth asking since I need to get a nut either way.

para300

  • CBT Wobbler
  • *
  • Posts: 27
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #7 on: 12 April 2013, 11:03:42 PM »
I've changed the nut on my 02 FZS600 during a recent sprocket and chain change.  Not because it failed but because of the failure of other peoples.  When researching/looking for the new modified Original Yamaha mod. I was shocked to find not many Yamaha dealers knew of the problem.
All sorted now though.  Piece of mind

Punkstig

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,191
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #8 on: 14 May 2013, 06:56:19 PM »
Hey look, there's my old user name /\ Stiggie, knew there'd be evidence of my existence somewhere!
Some say...

OBEWON

  • Cager in Training
  • Posts: 8
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • - RD 350-XV535
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #9 on: 09 April 2014, 06:46:53 PM »
Just to let people know, if anybody in the south yorkshire area needs the mod kit-yamaha  pt no 90891 10124  (wider nut and new tab washer) i got one today from smc motor cycles in sheffield. cost me a staggering £2.44. :lol    was surpised to find the old style nut on my newly purchased 2003 fazer ,found when changing chain and sprocket :eek

MarkWales

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #10 on: 09 April 2014, 08:19:36 PM »
Think I will pop the cover off and take a look.


Sannox

  • DAS Born Again
  • **
  • Posts: 75
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 02-03
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #11 on: 11 April 2014, 10:39:01 PM »
Had this happen to me while on holiday in France in 2011, on my 02 FZS600, was heading home, still some 200 miles away from Calais, doing a nice 110 on a country road, like you can out there and suddenly, a clonk, something hit my foot and I lost all drive, pulled over, as did all the other bikers with me, whipped off the front sprocket cover, and my sprocket nut and washer had done one and are both still by the side of a road or in a field in France, did look but didn't find. Really glad the chain didn't lock up!!!! A friendly local bike shop sorted me out the next day after picking the bike up, a nice friendly local (bandit rider :-/) let me leave the bike at his over night, the bike shop fitted another nut and washer, old thickness, and charged me £40 for the whole thing, picking the bike up from 20 miles away and fitting the washer etc, bargain, got home and promptly went back to the Yamaha dealer I bough the bike from, who told me they had never heard of the problem or of any free fixes but only charged me £2 for a new style nut and washer, ordered in especially. I now keep a close eye on it, even though it's the new nut.

mybad

  • Cager in Training
  • Posts: 2
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • - fzx
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #12 on: 06 May 2014, 05:56:09 PM »
Hi guys /girls. I am new to the site and this is my first post. I found this thread while searching google as it also relates to myself , I found the topic interesting and just thought I would ask a few questions on the matter due to a few uncertainties . the time had come to change the front sprocket so out with the socket set and set about it , a few good pressure pulls with extended bar on socket and the nut wouldn't budge , so anyway to cut it short I had to resort to the hammer and chisel to get it off there was just no other way to do it. So the nut is off ummm at first it looked like someone had crossed threaded it until I came across this post with the problem of nuts striping,  so this is where the crux of the matter is , the threads on the shaft, I cannot decide if the threads are damaged or just full of the material from the threads off the nut , I would imagine the threads on the shaft would be case hardened ? ( anyone confirm this ) my next plan is to use a thread file to clean the threads on the shaft , BUT what I don't know is is the thread size so I can use the correct part of the thread file .My bike is a 1987 fzx so no kind of warranty or modification awaits me.

diggers rest

  • Cager in Training
  • Posts: 2
    • Main bike:
      I don't own a bike
    • - fzs 600
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #13 on: 08 August 2014, 10:25:52 AM »
i have just changed my front sprocket and had the usual problem i thought the threds were stripped but simple solution u need part number 90891-10124 nut and washer kit then buy a dy mm18 :rolleyes  as in tap and dy and this will clean up the thead on the shaft u will have to use a pair of grips to turn the dy it takes a bit of time and does work trust me the worst job is puttig the chain link on buy the proper tool and save a lot of time

crickleymal

  • Club Racer
  • ****
  • Posts: 323
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #14 on: 31 March 2015, 03:00:57 PM »
Hi All


Just seen this thread and I have no idea whether the sprocket nut has been changed on my bike. Probably not given the low mileage. Is the Wemoto nut ok? http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/sprocket_front_retaining_nut_kit_oem/ Most of their other stuff is fine.
Malc

Old enough to know better.

7omly

  • Weekend Warrior
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 00-01
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #15 on: 28 June 2016, 09:03:25 PM »
Took my sprocket cover off the other day to do a sprockets and chain change and was horrified to see the front sprocket nut was only finger tight. The nut was only being prevented from falling off the shaft  by the lock washer which itself hadn't been bent over enough. I wondered why the front sprocket seemed so noisy. I took the opportunity to fit the larger washer and it's been great  (and qiueter) since. :)
Never underestimate the ingenuity of an idiot!

Albert Herring

  • CBT Wobbler
  • *
  • Posts: 31
    • Main bike:
      FZS600 98-99
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #16 on: 08 July 2016, 09:40:00 AM »
Is the Wemoto nut ok? http://www.wemoto.com/bikes/yamaha/fzs_600_fazer/98-99/picture/sprocket_front_retaining_nut_kit_oem/ Most of their other stuff is fine.



For the record fifteen months later, the Wemoto item is the genuine Yamaha part 90891-10124, so yes (crossed fingers because I haven't actually put it on yet)

VNA

  • GP Hero
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,389
    • Main bike:
      FZS 1000 Gen1
    • - C90
    • View Profile
Re: Lost your front sprocket and washer???
« Reply #17 on: 05 July 2017, 12:05:47 AM »
Missed this,

1. 1999
2. about 25,000
3. Yes
4. No, bike 5 years old
5. No accident - was lucky.  O/P shaft was wrecked.  New chain and sprocket kit fitted.  Front sprocket welded on.