Advance stop lines (asl's/ bike boxes) A WARNING!

[Punkstig]

After speaking to several policeman officers today I can confirm that as of this Thursday any vehicle not stopping at the first white line unde amber (debatable) and red light conditions thus entering and stopping in the bike box at traffic lights in London can and will be fined £60 and given 3 penalty points on their license by CCTV!


Up until now this would only happen if an officer was present at the time of the offence- you have been forewarned!

[Frosties]

Ahhhhhhhh bollox!!


Every day i go M4 Jct 10 to Canary Wharf and sit in these boxes just to get past the friggin lycra twats - sick off 'em. They cause more road rage sitting across the whole width of the junction than any other road user!


Not friggin happy 

[stevierst]

Anything to make a few quid! And it's all recorded, so there's no debating it either.

[Grahamm]

Good! It will help deter all those idiot cagers who think that because they "Pay to use the road" (they don't!) they're somehow better that anything on two wheels which obviously should give way to them!

I've been known to cycle up alongside them at the lights and say "Nice bicycle you've got there..."

[dazza]

You sound like a bundle of fun

[JZS 600]

Forewarned etc!


Cheers Punkstig.

[pointer2null]

Rule 178:

Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times

Note the use of the word "reached". You do not have to stop at the first stop line, but the first stop line you reach when the lights change. So, depending on speed and when they change you could legally stop at the second line.

[Punkstig]

Rule 178:

Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times

Note the use of the word "reached". You do not have to stop at the first stop line, but the first stop line you reach when the lights change. So, depending on speed and when they change you could legally stop at the second line.

Yes, legally you could and luckily if they tried to charge you you already know there is CCTV evidence to prove you we're in the right-


178Advanced stop lines. Some signal-controlled junctions have advanced stop lines to allow cycles to be positioned ahead of other traffic. Motorists, including motorcyclists, MUST stop at the first white line reached if the lights are amber or red and should avoid blocking the way or encroaching on the marked area at other times, e.g. if the junction ahead is blocked. If your vehicle has proceeded over the first white line at the time that the signal goes red, you MUST stop at the second white line, even if your vehicle is in the marked area. Allow cyclists time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10, 36(1) & 43(2)

[Arfa]

Speaking with other Londoners, I'm not aware of any CCTV currently setup to catch anyone doing this. However coppers and PCSO's have been handing out leaflets to offenders as a pre-warning/awareness type thing. I suspect it will be enforced by the like too.

Enforcing this via CCTV would be a logistical nightmare. The CCTV would have to synchronised with  the traffic lights, to ensure they only snap vehicle crossing the ASL after the lights after turned red. To get a decent view of the ASL/bicycle box would need to be forward facing. Which of course isn't going to catch any motorcyclists. A rear facing camera would be crap as it would be too difficult to ascertain if the front of a vehicle is encroaching the ASL, especially taller cars, and lorries. And again, a motorcycle sat in front of a lorry would be invisible to a rear camera. Which just leaves side on camera, which ain't going to see any number plates. Maybe a multi-camera setup could work, but this would require good manual inspection to match the same bikers in each camera angle.

[Exupnut]

Some very good point there mate. Good post.

[alan sherman]

They have operators on multiple camera setups.  I got done in the bus lane at Hamersmith - they took many pictures of me from various angles - one front on, then a rear view with my plate.

Bang to rights and £80 down

I don't go in that bus lane any more.....

[Punkstig]

Speaking with other Londoners, I'm not aware of any CCTV currently setup to catch anyone doing this. However coppers and PCSO's have been handing out leaflets to offenders as a pre-warning/awareness type thing. I suspect it will be enforced by the like too.

Enforcing this via CCTV would be a logistical nightmare.

Have you never looked up?
CCTV is everywhere in town and there's barely a meter that isn't covered.
Before we were allowed in bus lanes several of us were cought by CCTV that was facing us simply because they are remote controlled and swivel and zoom (very quickly) to grab the number plate, logistically there is no difference between being caught for bus lanes/ yellow box junctions and bike boxes!
Furthermore this also means there will be many more CCTV cars parked by these junctions.
This is a massive cash cow waiting to be milked.

My main concern isn't the fine- it's the points on license!

[andybesy]

Yeah, fine I can understand, points seems dumb.

As a new rider I'm on a 2 year probation and so can only get 6 points before I'm screwed.

Should I really face a ban for two misdemeanour's? Is it that great a safety issue?

After riding through London for the first time this summer I was fine with the traffic, peds, junctions, all the stuff I wanted to be able to concentrate on, but was kinda freaked out by all the CCTV.

Very distracting for someone who is not used to that.

Just to add, I understand London faces unique challenges traffic wise, so I guess the CCTV is required, but I still think the crime needs to fit the punishment!

Andy

[seangee]

Yeah, fine I can understand, points seems dumb.

...
Just to add, I understand London faces unique challenges traffic wise, so I guess the CCTV is required, but I still think the crime needs to fit the punishment!

Andy

Agreed. I got done for bus lane in Reading. To this day I don't know how I could have avoided it as the signs only visible once you are in with no way out. But video evidence so it was easier to pay. But no points - and I won't be doing it again.

[Motorbreath]

Here in Madrid there are too many slopes for cycling. We have advanced stop lines... for motorcycles. We can also filter when cars are fully stopped to reach them . Also we are allowed to use the Taxi/bus lane.

[Lawrence]

One thing they need to do here is stick a yellow box on every junction and enforce it     Then get rid of the stupid cycle stop lines that mean you have a solid wall of 5mph cyclists in front of you when the lights go green 

[JZS 600]

All I know is I'm staying out of them!
 
Another 2 mins on the journey is better than points and a fine,,,

[Skippernick]

You should watch the routemaster program on BBC 1, then you'll see how many cameras there are.

[Farjo]

They will not be enforced by CCTV, just plod on the spot. This means that the offence will not be policed effectively, and in these circumstances 'the authorities' tend to react by increasing the penalty - hence the points plus fine.

As for cash cows, why do motorists always think that any attempt to enforce rules is a cash cow? Drivers complain loudly each time they see a cyclist break a rule then want unfettered ability to do the same.

[Exupnut]

They will not be enforced by CCTV, just plod on the spot.

Your quite wrong there farjo. Public carriage, bus companys and courier/haulage companys have all been informed it WILL be enforced by cctv. In fact soon the power that police have to enforce this rule will be taken away from them and be enforced only by cctv like box junctions and illegal turns or driving on restriced roads and bus lanes etc. workin the roads in london day in day out it pays us to be informed.

[Farjo]

Yes you're right

[MarchRide]

Say sorry then!!  VVVVVV

[Punkstig]

Nice to see what I said in the first place to warn you was paid attention to!
 

[seangee]

Paid special attention on the way home in rush hour today and here's my observations.

• Most bikes did stop before the first line most of the time. Must have read similar articles cos they don't usually (including me).
• Scooter riders paid no more attention to the lines than they do to red lights, other road users or their mirrors. If you do stop before the first line 20 scoots will jump in front of you. Yes I know that's a generalisation but I ride in London every day and they are the things that frighten me most about it.
• Bicycles mostly ok, a few take the pish. Proper cyclists that is. Much as I like the idea of Boris' bikes many of their occupants don't have a foccin clue.
• Sometimes it's hard. Got an amber and would have had to brake very hard to make the first line. Decided sod it I'll just go. Good job because the cab behind me also went through without braking and so did the van behind him.
• Turning right from Embankment into Northumberland - filtered up slowly and stopped behind the line. Light for cars going straight turned green, still red for right turners. Narrowly missed by a Bentley and a cab, spotted a bus hurtling towards my mirror, crapped meself and moved into the ASL pronto

Sorry officer but I tried - honest.

[Frosties]

As you seem to ride in London a lot like myself seangee you (anyone) may be able to help me with this one.


There are cycle lanes along Upper Thames Street, the one in particular is the last section before Southwark Bridge. This cycle lane has dotted lines so live dotted chevrons I use it. Trouble is, when it comes to the Southwark Bridge junction it turns into an upside down L bike zone - question is, where the hell do you stop...or do you have to. The first effective solid line is the second one as it doesn't cross the cycle lane.


Don't know if this  Sat link view will work


[size=78%]https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=upper+thames+street&ie=UTF-8&hl=en[/size]

Its the junction of Queen Street and A3211, travelling East (or right to left)