Which Oil Is Best?

[Ton13]

Hi, A Mechanic Friend is doing a service for me but he has asked me to get my oil and kit etc.
 
Just wondered what oil people use and which one will be best for me? Its never had a big service and has done about 24,000 so want to complete oil change etc?!
 
Any advice will be greatfully recieved!

[Fazerider]

I've bought various brands over the years, but for the past 30,000 miles or so have used Halfords semi-synthetic with no problems. Nice and cheap (relatively) and works fine. Whatever you choose, make sure it's one that's specified for motorcycles.

[mars696]

I have tried:
- motul 5000 ,i dont like them,the gearbox was very noisy.
- torco t4r, excellent oil,it made the gear a litle bit softer and quieter.
- castrol power1 gps,excellend oil too.


All of them are semi synthetic.If you ask me,in the next oil change i will choose castrol again.

[Skippernick]

Being Yamahas wouldn't Yamalube be the best option, price not being a factor?

[mars696]

Being Yamahas wouldn't Yamalube be the best option, price not being a factor?

I m 99% sure that Yamalube oil are made by Motul.So you are using Motul oil.

[richfzs]

Whatever you choose, make sure it's one that's specified for motorcycles.

Ah, where's pete when you need him

[subby]

I have used nothing but Castrol power 1 semi synthetic in both my bikes.. my Honda Transalp has done 50k miles with me on that stuff .. ( bike now has 82k on it! ) and i use the same in the fazer with no issues. Worth the extra few quid in my view.

[Skippernick]

Being Yamahas wouldn't Yamalube be the best option, price not being a factor?

I m 99% sure that Yamalube oil are made by Motul.So you are using Motul oil.

Is that why my gear box is clunky then? Thought it was just a redeeming feature of the bike.

[mars696]

The clunky gearbox for a fazer ( not only) its absolutely normal!! Dont worry.
Far from this,some oils make the gearbox softer, but not "butter" .
So dont expect miracles, just  an improvment!

[Major Rant]

Ah, where's pete when you need him

 
I've been promoted 
 
Read previous posts. There's no such thing as bloody "Motorcycle oil" just "Oil that is marketed for motorcycles" by men in suits that finance bike-racing.
 
Use what Mr Yamaha tells you to use ... That's any 10/30 or 10/40 oil that meets the SL or CF spec. Doesn't matter what machine is pictured on the can:  Car, Bike, Lawnmower or Hovercraft.
 
Avoid oil that has "friction reducing additives" or you will need to clean and rebuild your clutch.
(that's what he means by "some car oils should be avoided")
 
Personally I use the cheapest oil that meets the spec (currently ASDA 10/40) and I change it twice as often as Mr Yamaha says. That's because new cheap oil is better than 3000 mile "wonder-oil".
 
I then use the old oil mixed with "creosote substitute" to paint the fence.

[Fazerider]

Hmm.. I prefer not to spread carcinogenic waste oil around my garden. I take it to my council recycling centre so that it can be turned into Asda 10/40.


I had been under the impression that some car oils are unsuitable for bikes, not only because of the wet clutch issue, but because requirements for gear oil and engine oil are different and the gearbox is normally separate in cars. The Duckhams Hypergrade I used to put in my Kawasaki GPZ305 certainly didn't do the cam lobes any favours.

[Major Rant]

I take it to my council recycling centre so that it can be turned into Asda 10/40.

If you did, it wouldn't meet the SL or CF spec - so you wouldn't want to buy it, would you?
Having said that, there are oils out there (notably Car-lube 20/50) that don't meet the spec and look suspiciously like they ARE made from waste oil.
I would use them in my Mk1 Escort (RIP) or my lawnmower.
(Amusingly, Briggs and Stratton sternly warn you against using any oil other than special SAE30 Lawnmower oil in their 1940 side-valve 1000RPM
agricultural wonder. Available for only £10 a litre at your local Wyevale in a green bottle
Does the message sound familiar?)
 
For an oil to meet that spec it has to contain enough zinc-dialkyl-phosphate to act as a "barrier of last resort" against metal-metal contact when the oil film breaks down cos its too thin to cover the impact forces as your piston ring rattles down the bore 150 times a second. That sliding-seal in the presence of hot exploding gas is a far more severe test of oils than the nice clean push and slide cog-cog contact in a gearbox. I would be more worried about my gears wearing out after exposure to all those carbon and nitride particles that contaminate the oil on the barrel walls.
 
 

[Slaninar]

Being Yamahas wouldn't Yamalube be the best option, price not being a factor?

I m 99% sure that Yamalube oil are made by Motul.So you are using Motul oil.

Is that why my gear box is clunky then? Thought it was just a redeeming feature of the bike.

My info is Yamalube is not Motul, nor made by Motul. It is not possible to get complete specs and origin from what I found out. At the price (at least in my country), Yamalube costs almost as much as Motul, but Motul is the best oil I think.

Motul 7100 is the best IMO.
You could go semi synth with Motul 5100.

Repsol is also fine.

10w40 viscosity for England and northern Europe, 10w50, or 15w50 for hot hot heat.

Car oil without friction modifiers can do, but is not as good as GOOD motorcycle specific oil. Some brands just pack car oils in different bottles, but good companies make motorcycle specific oil. Motul, Repsol, Silkolene, Mobil to name a few.

Oil is not where I try to save money.

[Major Rant]

Car oil without friction modifiers can do, but is not as good as GOOD motorcycle specific oil.

Based on what evidence ?
 
You lot should try going to Church more often. Its full of people who believe things because they think life would be great if it was all true.
 
If motorcycling was a religion, the oil company "suits" would be the high-priests and Ned Flanders would have a VMax covered in Motul stickers (and a little fishy on his slightly undersized numberplate).
 
"Stupid Flanders .... Gaining happiness from religion" - H Simpson 

[Slaninar]

Based on what evidence ?

Repost my text from old yuku forum:Motorcycle (vs car) engine is different in several ways:1) Clutch is in the same oil, wet clutch.2) More rpms. This puts tension on camshaft. Smaller surface takes more pressure per square inch in motorcycle.If going for auto oils, I was told not to go above SG specification semi-synthetic oils. If using auto full synth, or any above API SG, then clutch slippage is to be expected. Like you said, difference in price is nowhere near the risk taken.Silkolene semi-synth COMP 4  10w40 goes for around 7.5 e per litre here. That is what 2 oil experts recommended and agreed upon for FZS engine. One of them also recommended Motul, but said Silkolene is cheaper and almost just as good.One more thing. They also said that many oil companies sell auto oil as motor oil - which means their oil, even motorcycle specific stuff, is bad. Didn't want to say which ones, but said:"Bad stuff isn't alway cheap.Good stuff is never cheap."What they did want to say are companies who do not pack auto oil an whose motorcycle oil is at least decent. Motul, Mobile (Fuchs), Silkolene, Bel Ray are the mentioned ones I can remember. Doesn't mean some other are not good, but these were "approved" by them.What I fail to understand is how FZS engine can not benefit from full synthetic oil. From what I learned, full synth can give 1-2 k kms longer change intervals and somewhat better protection.They also said to stick to 5000 km change for town use, and 6-7 k km change for traveling. However, they said this goes for Serbia only (our petrol has a lot of sulphur - bad quality fuel).

If I had 2 new motorcylces, I would gladly do the testing myself. Ride one on car, the other on decen motorcycle specific oil. Then, after some  50.000 kms, perhaps I could come to a clonclusion. I believe that car oil could be as good, but price difference is just not worth the risk for me.

Coming from an experienced mechanic I know (and trust): Motul and Repsol are oils which never made problems for any bike.

[Major Rant]

Well, there's no evidence there is there?  .
 
And just because you say it twice doesn't make it true , does it? 
 
Whats in these 'motorcycle oils' that make them any better than SL spec 10/40?? We should be told!
Reading the Silkolene site and it tells me that they developed "special high shear polymers" to improve
on the basic mineral oil of the 1960s.
 
It doesn't say "This is better than a standard modern SL multigrade from the year 2011" . Don't you think it would say that if it were true??
They talk a lot about the perils of using inferior oil but its all based on fear, not data.
 
They tell a story about how Joe ruined his race engine using cheap oil but they don't publish any shear degredation data.
Don't you think they would plaster that data all over the can if it was significant and true ?.
 
I bet Joe's toilet smells cos he doesn't use Harpic too. 

[Skippernick]

Ladies calm down
I'm sure this thread was started to help fazerrider with a choice not to start arguments.

[Fazerider]

Ah, Easy Rider's thread Skippernick, not mine... I'm merely the bloke who (inadvertently) started the argument.
But, it's turning out to be more fun than I'd expected.


The Major may be correct, perhaps when we buy oil with the word Motorcycle on the container we are just paying over the odds for car oil. However, I'll stick with my current choice.
A) I've used car oil in a bike previously and had problems.
B) Car and bike engines are very different... it's not unreasonable to expect that oil companies can tailor products to cope with different requirements.
C) By replacing my slightly pricier oil at the recommended service intervals I'm saving money and spending less time getting my hands dirty than the Major who doesn't actually have the courage of his convictions and so changes his oil twice as often. [/size]

[Slaninar]

Well, there's no evidence there is there?  .
 

Yes, I agree with you. There is no 100% clear evidence. Just like cigars causing lung cancer. No 100% evidence, but I believe they don't help.

Have you tried any fully synth car oil in Fazer engine (and clutch)? Was everything fine?


Bottom line: your money, your bike - do whatever you like. For the price difference I don't want to risk.

[SteveCardiff]

Always used semi synth Vauxhall car oil in my bikes cos I get it almost free. Used it in GPZ9, did about 15k on that, CBR Thou, took that from 25k to 67k, and my current CBR Thou has close on 50k on it. Never had problems.


There was also a bloke in 'Ride' magazine (i think) a few years back who was a courier. He did 440,000 miles on one of his VFR800s and used the cheapest car oil he could find. Changed it every week and had no problems either.

[daveph]

Easy Rider 13, what have you done?  I saw your post and thought take cover.   It is a much discussed subject, as you can now tell.  Something the right spec, semi-synth, nothing fancy, will do the job.
Cheers
Dave

[Skippernick]

Oh yeah
sorry fazerrider i did mean easy rider.

[Major Rant]

the Major who doesn't actually have the courage of his convictions and so changes his oil twice as often.

Not true !!... I do it because I have DATA ( y'know ... evidence with numbers ) that shows that ALL OIL degrades in use and none of them can be trusted to stay within their viscosity window more than a few K miles and it is therefore good for my engine.*
 
Here it is :
 

			Relative Viscosity Retention (as a percentage of initial viscosity retained after normal use in the same motorcycle)
	0 miles	800mi	1500mi
Mobil 1 Castrol Syntec Castrol GTX Honda HP4 Spectro 4	100% 100% 100% 100% 100%	86.6% 78.1% 72.2% 69.2% 68.0%	83.0% 74.5% 68.0% 65.6% 63.9%

* Actually synthetic oils can (see Mobil 1 above).. I'm leaning towards the use of Asda or Tesco Fully Synthetic, which has been wondrous in the car - still amber and oily after 11K miles

[Major Rant]

Have you tried any fully synth car oil in Fazer engine (and clutch)? Was everything fine?

No, but I'm leaning that way (as I said above) and I will use it next time. Others on here have used it and there was 1 bloke reporting what he thought was clutch-slip. Worst that can heppen is that I take it out and use it to top-up the car.

[Fazerider]

... ALL OIL degrades in use and none of them can be trusted to stay within their viscosity window more than a few K miles...

Indeed, but presumably Yamaha are aware of that too. If they'd cynically increased the service interval from 4000 to 6000 miles in order to sell more spares they'd soon find a reputation for selling vehicles that don't last isn't good for business. Unless you're seeing if you can get a world record mileage out of a Fazer engine I can't see the point in changing oil more frequently than the manufacturers recommend.


I tried to find some details on the Tesco website about their fully synthetic, aside from a choice of 5W30 or 5W40 the information was limited to advice that nutritional content is subject to change.
Since viscosity modifiers supposedly get chewed up worse by the higher speeds in bike gearboxes, wouldn't an oil like that (with a wider range than required) suffer more than a 10W40?