This is NOT an attempt to start a discussion...

[VNA - BMW Wank]

[fazersharp]

What gets me is the endless analogies that people on both sides use, they seem to be ever increasingly wild and bizarre.
Like the car sales man selling you a Ferrari and delivering you a mini, or the monkey climbing out of the tree to find the nuts you have given him are not Brazils but actually peanuts  WT actual F  .     

[YamFazFan]

Like the car sales man selling you a Ferrari and delivering you a mini

A caller to LBC came out with that exact one this afternoon.

[fazersharp]

Like the car sales man selling you a Ferrari and delivering you a mini

A caller to LBC came out with that exact one this afternoon.

Thats where I got it from  There seems to be a contest as to who can come up with the wildest analogy. - its like taking a horse to water but killing two birds with it.
I swear that some of them seem to go on for 1/2 hour and make complete nonsense at the end.     

[YamFazFan]

I suspected that was where you had heard it too. I was just waiting for you to confirm it

[YamFazFan]

I used to work with a bloke who got his analogies unintentionally mixed up. It was hilarious. He'd come out with stuff like "I'm sweating like a Guinea pig in the bush"

[fazersharp]

I suspected that was where you had heard it too. I was just waiting for you to confirm it

I have heard 100s as I work listing to the radio and that one was the last one before I had to mention it.
There is no need for analogies. All politicians lie including the EU ( we will not amend the treaty, the back stop is not to change ) (no deal is better than a bad deal ) ( they were washing machine sales men called Jim ) When does politics end and lying begin, depends on who's side you are on.       

[fazersharp]

I used to work with a bloke who got his analogies unintentionally mixed up. It was hilarious. He'd come out with stuff like "I'm sweating like a Guinea pig in the bush"

GOLD DUST

[mtread]

All politicians lie including the EU ( we will not amend the treaty, the back stop is not to change ) (no deal is better than a bad deal ) ( they were washing machine sales men called Jim ) When does politics end and lying begin, depends on who's side you are on.     

Now that I can agree with. There are very very few conviction politicians. It's all soundbites and bluff to try to out manoeuvre opposition. We will end up with what we end up with, and history books will judge.

[YamFazFan]

We will end up with what we end up with, and history books will judge.

Nice one/two 

[mtread]

  All politicians lie

Boris Johnson  - '' No British government could or should sign up to putting a border in the Irish Sea between mainland United Kingdom and Northern Ireland'

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

There is no need for analogies. All politicians lie including the EU ( we will not amend the treaty, the back stop is not to change ) (no deal is better than a bad deal ) ( they were washing machine sales men called Jim ) When does politics end and lying begin, depends on who's side you are on.       

I disagree.  Firstly understand what a lie is and it’s seriousness;


Lie - a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.


It is if you like to knowingly mislead.  Lying in parliament is a serious business, can cost you your position, you can have the whip withdrawn or even find yourself being prosecuted and jailed.


Many politicians do indeed lie, but I do not accept that all politicians lie, far from it.


The statement from the EU that you refer to, is taking into account that the current deal that Boris is putting forward was rejected out of hand by Boris and the Tory party just a year or so ago. “No British Conservative government could or should sign up any such arrangement “ is what he told us.
 
A border down the Irish sea between NI and the UK was always an option as far as the EU was concerned.  This is along the lines of May’s original deal, that Boris rejected and now has done the mother of all U-turns on.
 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 What we do need is a second referendum.  Is this really what people in England and Wales want? 



But let me tell you whatever happens, the only way the Union will be saved is if article 50 is cancelled.  So, what is the priority - protecting the Union and Great Britain, or England and Wales leaving the EU.


Almost 2/3rds of Scots voted to REMAIN in the EU.  Northern Ireland also voted to REMAIN in the EU.  Johnsons deal will quite likely spell the end of the United Kingdom and Great Britain.
 

[Grahamm]

Well the OP was, honestly, not an attempt to start this whole thing off again...

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

[YamFazFan]

Well the OP was, honestly, not an attempt to start this whole thing off again...

 

[YamFazFan]

What we do need is a second referendum. 

Under Boris's leadership I'm pretty sure Leave would win again. A recent poll put Leave on 50%, Remain on 42% & Don't Know on 8%.


Boris naturally draws people to him, is easy going, charismatic and jovial. The exact opposite of Corbyn in fact . The Labour Party are well aware of this and it's the main reason they run scared of a general election I believe. That and their complete fudge of a Brexit policy. At least you know where you stand with the Illiberal Undemocrats.

[steve 10562cc]

Easy answer to this give England their independence from Scotland and Ireland.  Think they would find the English would be better off out the EU and without Scotland and Ireland whining. Scotland had a vote for independence but didn't have the bottle to cut the apron strings with the English. So stop whining and suck it up. 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 

That and their complete fudge of a Brexit policy.

I’ll agree with you there.  They still can’t get their act together.  And of course, it all started to go wrong when they voted for article 50.

Under Boris's leadership I'm pretty sure Leave would win again. A recent poll put Leave on 50%, Remain on 42% & Don't Know on 8%.

You may be correct.  But I feel it needs to be done.  The government’s own figures show this deal leading to an estimated 5-6% economic hit.  That means a serious foc off recession.  It means the destruction of what is left of our manufacturing sector.  If that is what people want, then let them have it, but let them be clear that they really want it.


Also I have no fear of a second referendum.  2/3rds of Scots voted to Remain in the EU, and the polls suggest that this will firm up further.  NI also voted to Remain and it is expected that they would do so again.


So, if, and it is still if at this time, Johnson’s deal goes through, with luck the country will vote against it in a second referendum.  BREXIT will be buried and we can all move on.  If England, and maybe Wales vote for it, well we in Scotland will have yet another referendum, a second referendum on Independence. 



NI will left alligined with Eire - I think eventually they will continue in that direction. 

Boris naturally draws people to him, is easy going, charismatic and jovial.

I can’t remember who said it, but it was something like – “A man liked only by those who do not know him”
And of course a man who refuses point blank to state how many children he has fathered.
 
 

[VNA - BMW Wank]

Easy answer to this give England their independence from Scotland and Ireland.

That's what Johnson will ultimately deliver.
BREXIT is, after all, English nationalism.

[steve 10562cc]

Makes a change from Scottish nationalism we've heard enough whining from the SNP over the last few years. Have another vote to leave only this time don't bottle it and be your own nation see how long you last before you have to go cap in hand for a bale out from the EU or the UK.

[mtread]

Boris naturally draws people to him,

You are joking surely! Do you mean Boris Picanniny Watermelon Smiles, Bumboys, Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, Leave my fucking laptop alone, 5 or 6 children Johnson?
Are we talking about the same man? He is just a showman. All bluff and snake oil. No substance whatsoever.
When the election comes, watch him switch from Uxbridge to a safe seat. That's how much integrity he has.

[mtread]

O dear, Bercow has just disallowed the government's request for another vote today
And more surprisingly I've temporarily become a fan of the DUP. Even my principles can be adjusted 

[YamFazFan]

O dear, Bercow has just disallowed the government's request for another vote today  

As far as I can see Bercow made a perfectly proper decision. If that's correct Parliamentary procedure then so be it. That's how it should be.


I'm sure everyone would agree consistency and impartiality should be observed at all times

[VNA - BMW Wank]

 We don’t do nationalism in Scotland.  We do however want our independence.  There is a difference Steve.
 

O dear, Bercow has just disallowed the government's request for another vote today

What the foc?  Oh dear, I need to catch up. 

I've temporarily become a fan of the DUP.

Never.  For all the false accusations and mud being slung at Corbyn, let us not forget that current members of the DUP, Sammy Wilson, Ian Paisley jnr, Peter Robinson, Nigel Dodds and others are men with direct links to the UVF and UDA via their organisation Ulster Resistance.  These are men with blood on their hands.  They are also bigots and homophobes.  Indeed, these are the kind of people that the Tory party are happy to associate with – well when it suits them.


And further the DUP in backing BREXIT do not represent the majority of people in NI who voted to REMAIN.