Date: 22-09-19  Time: 19:55 PM

Author Topic: Meta M357T-V2 removal disaster - any help out there for an immobile bike?  (Read 659 times)

Extremepie

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Hi All,
new here.
I have just removed the Meta M357T-V2 from my FZS1000 '05 and got safely as far as I could.  What I didn't realise was that I could bugger it up further by trying to find the right links for the ignition circuits.
I seem to have gone from a fully functional bike apart from the dead-battery alarm, (now removed) to one that is screwed.
The neutral light is not functioning, and the spring in the starter button has changed and has significantly less resistance.  I blew the signals 20A fuse when using trial and error to find the right links.
Someone here suggested that it could be the fuel pump, relay but I don't know what's really happened.  Any help out there?
Cheers,


unfazed

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Why on earth did you not ask on here first?  :rolleyes it only takes 10minutes to remove a Meta 357T-V2 when you know how.
A few questions,

Did you cut the wires to the connector ?Is the the engine turning over?Do you have a multi meter and if so are you proficient in using it?
Post a picture of the present condition of the wires.


Extremepie

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Hi -


Well I did look around online and ended up with a youtube vid suggesting it was straightforward.  I've actually seen it linked to on here too.  Nothing suggested you could make a right cock-up of other bits during trial and error diagnosis, but a recent thread from someone else here who had their bike stolen suggests that it's entirely feasible to end up with a buggered 5EB-81950-20 relay unit and non functional neutral light / system along with a blown 20A fuse. I did blow the 20A signal fuse (now replaced)  but the neutral light has ceased to function.


Anyhow, feeling suitably chastened, here's the current state of things. 


Alarm has been cut off.  All wires to the back of the bike ignored for the time being.  Presume they just operate the flashers during arming / if the alarm is set off.


12V wire found and terminated.  Earth wire found and terminated.


So I have 4 left, all in the choc block as shown.  One of them has 4.9V when the ignition is on.  The others are showing 0V.  I have made jumpers to diagnose them BUT with the neutral now messed up and the start button seeming to have less spring than it did I don't know what needs fixed first.


I have a multimeter and I can use it.


I have removed the 5EB relay unit thinking that it may be feasible to hot wire the terminations to get past the alarm connections and then replace the relay afterwards but don't know what to jump to where to do that.


Any help much appreciated!




unfazed

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What year is  the bike, does it have switch lights (pre 2003), lights that are always on (US import) or lights that come on when the bike starts 03-05 EU models)?Unfortunately your picture does not show you will need to upload it not copy and paste it.

It is possible to have damaged the Ignitor and/or the 5eb-81950-20 which is the Starter Cut Out Relay of which I cannot be held responsible for.

Disconnecting the Starter Cut out relay and/or blowing the diode within will prevent the neutral light working , disconnecting the same relay will also stop the fuel pump working

Disconnect the Ignitor and the Relay before you start and then using the OHM scale on the meter we can trace the wires the need to reconnect. Hopefully is was wire as per instructions by whoever installed it.

tex

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You can get a new unit of amazon £ 130 easy to swap couple of screws 10 min job, if you haven't gone to far with cutting the wiring.
the night i was born, lord the moon stood a fire red., my poor mother her crying,
she said the gypsy was right, and she fell right dead

Extremepie

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Hi  - Bike is 05 EU lights always on. 
If I've damaged the ignitor relay that's on me - I never blame anyone for my stupidity!  £90 all in will get a new one if I need it. I have a feeling I will need it.
Cheers
« Last Edit: 16 July 2019, 05:31:39 PM by Extremepie »

unfazed

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Lift the tank and locate the block connectors for the ignition switch and connector for the right hand switch. Disconnect them both.
With the meter on the ohm scale check for continuity between the black wire in each connector with the the four black wire on the your white connector block.There are two black wires in the switch connector the one you need check will be going to a blue/white back to the switcch.
Only two should have continuity, take note of which one goes where. Now  check the black wire on the Starter cut out relay for continunity with one of the other two. Finally check the last one for continuity to a black wire on the ignitor.
Note where they all go to.

 
« Last Edit: 16 July 2019, 06:53:55 PM by unfazed »

Extremepie

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Thanks.  Will look at this tomorrow!

Extremepie

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Still having real problems with this.


On my connector block, taking A, B, C, D, E from left to right (I included the 12V wire at position C)


the left hand two wires (A & B) are not connected to the ignition connector under the tank at all, but both have a connection to the ignition relay.
The right most wire (E) is connected to the start button directly via the ignition connector under the tank
The inner right wire (D) has about 20 thousand ohms between it and two of the wires in the ignition connector so to all intents and purposes aren't connected.
The centre wire (C) that wasn't connected in the pic and has 12V on it when the ignition is turned on is connected to the kill switch and the brake light, but has a few ohms on it.


I have no clue what to connect to what here. 


The neutral green light still isn't working despite getting a new ignition relay.  Any ideas what else can be causing this?  it was working fine before my trial and error connections and blown fuse a couple of days ago.


Cheers

unfazed

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Can you tell me where the wires are connected to in the Starter Cut Out Relay plug in the attached picture?

Extremepie

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I have to upload these elsewhere - can you attach directly?  Anyway, thanks for any help.  here's what I've got, if you can shed any light that's brilliant.

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/1ea778ef893607ac2fb4c9af6/images/d3f1a010-4e41-4fe2-9c64-2a644be4cb76.jpg




« Last Edit: 17 July 2019, 06:53:44 PM by Extremepie »

unfazed

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Trying to decipher your terminology  is the hard part as it is different to mine :lol
Taking resistances reading will only confuse the issue as any connection to what I asked you to check should have little or no resistance. Most resistances you are getting are possibly through bulbs, relays or the Ignitor

Ignition off, disconnect the plug on the starter solenoid and see if there is any connection between the Blue/white wire on the solenoid with any of you alarm wires on the relay plug.
From what I have seen so far the alarm installer did not use the recommended installation.
You will need to disconnect the wires that are still connected as we will need to rule them in or out as only two are used for the Indidcators which should have been wired via diodes.
The wires you removed I presume were the Red/Black for the LED indicator the fused 12volt supply and the two earths?

As for the Neutral light
The Sky Blue and the SkyBlue/White in the relay plug are associated with the neutral switch. Again with the ignition off and the Relay plug disconnected, check the neutral switch by putting the meter on the OHM scale and connect one probe to the SkyBlue wire and the other to earth, now put the biker in and out of neutral. You should get almost zero ohms only when in neutral, if not you have either a faulty switch or corroded wires in the connect to the at the switch or between the switch and the Relay plug.. If that is ok turn the ignition on, earth the SkyBlue/White wire the neutral light should come on.




Extremepie

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Hi
Yep - I'm a little limited here.  I can hook up any two wires and tell you the voltage between those points or the resistance across them.  I admit I was somewhat surprised by the variation, I'd expected a load of either open circuit or short circuit and got much more variation than I'd anticipated.

You are a lifesaver. 
Currently cooking chicken and chips for SWMBO so I'll realistically be coning back to this tomorrow.  Only thing is that it was somehow the trial and error linking on the alarm wires that messed up the neutral light, which was fine up to that point.  That's not happened through random wear and tear or anything like that.
FWIW - solenoid and starter are fine as I hooked it up directly earlier on.  Battery is OK.
Bike didn't fire at all so when starter wiresconnected manuallyI assume the fuel pump is not ticking over in current embuggered configuration, and or there was no juice to the HT system.
Starter button does act as a switch, based on previous diagnostics with it and the connector block under the tank but I am confused as why it's spring response has definitely changed (got spongier) at the same time the neutral stopped working.
All the best,


unfazed

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Not to worry, come back to me when you complete what I asked and when the wiring is back as it should be we can check out anything that is not working then.

If the fuel pump does not tick when ignition is switched on it is easy enough to check to ensure it is working.

Extremepie

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The alarm is completely disconnected from the bike.

The wires you removed I presume were the Red/Black for the LED indicator the fused 12volt supply and the two earths?

The 15A fused alarm wire went to earth - it was piggybacked off the second smaller battery earth wire that has the single wire white connector.  It's removed and isn't in the connector block (but it can be if I need to anything with it)
The LED red/black is indeed completely gone, along with its return to earth. These two went directly from the led to the alarm i.e. weren't wired into the loom.
The alarm wire that energises at 12V with the ignition on is currently in position 'C' in my connector block.
There were three unused alarm wires that the installer simply bundled up and taped out of the way.
There were the three black (with olive green dots) wires that led to the rear of the bike and at the moment these are just taped and loose i.e. not in my connector block as I believed these to be surplus to requirements.

OK - as per instructions...
The blue /white on the starter solenoid is connected to the blue/white on the starter cut out relay connector block.  This has no connection to any alarm wire (I have checked all the alarm wires that were used including the fused one and the three going to the back of the machine)
The red/white wire on the starter solenoid is connected to the B/L wire (on your diagram) and the R/B Wire.  it is also connected to the 12V alarm wire. [/size]The neutral sky blue & sky blue/white is doing nothing - showing no connection regardless of gearbox position. Could I have fried the light and that's the problem, or is it just a separate indicator circuit?
[/size]Cheers

« Last Edit: 18 July 2019, 12:17:05 PM by Extremepie »

unfazed

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PM me your email address (Personal messages ore under the messages section on the menu) as from here on I will show how to bypass much of the what is required to bypass alarms, but will not do it on an open forum for obvious reasons.
You are going to have to strip back the sheath on the loom to continue, but I will tell what to do by email.

Extremepie

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Thanks for all the help, bike now sorted out and running again! 


Huge thanks to the hugely knowledgeable Pat, aka unfazed, without whom this would have been a much longer and more painful experience.


All the best, now off to fill the tank up.


PS Pat, the relay circuits were fine, amazingly.  Fried two switches but the relay diodes were OK surprisingly.  Does anybody need a brand new starter cut out relay box?  Surplus to requirements!

unfazed

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As I expected with the relay, when connecting the wires you probably sent 12v straight through the light contacts in the neutral and side stand switches (full S/C), but the diodes in the relay blocked the 12v, however if the diodes had allowed 12v through it was going via a bulb or relay, which thus prevented a full S/C or the wire already had 12v on it.
In any case you are up and running again.

Enjoy yhe rest of the summer now. :thumbup

agricola

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Well done Unfazed

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Yeah well done unfazed. This place would be screwed without your input and half the Fazers in England wouldn't be running :lol I'm always amazed that people just start cutting into their loom when they don't know what they're doing.
I printed out DUDE'S instructions...even on paper they are pretty confusing...Has he been INGESTING some MIND ALTERING substance......???