Author Topic: Lighting problem / Electrics expert required! (Read 5946 times)

StuartGSXR · « **on:** 07 July 2019, 04:27:41 pm »

Hi one and all.
New to the club and sorry to be starting with a problem. I ended up here after doing a google search of my issue so here I am.
I have a 2003 Foxeye 600, it is used as my commuter and does 70 miles a day 4 or 5 days a week. In November last year I upgraded the headlight bulbs but they are the 60/55 versions so no probs there. I always have my headlights on even in the day time so the headlight switch is always in the on position.

On the way to work on Friday, I noticed near the end of my journey that I could not see the reflection of my lights in the car in front. Got to work and sure enough no headlights. Turned the bike off, checked the fuse and all good. Took one of the bulbs out and all good, refitted the bulb and put the ignition on and all was well. At the end of the day, turned the ignition on and lights came on nd started to ride home. Again, when I was nearly home it was clear no headlights were on, got home and checked and sure enough they were off and have not come back on at all.
Did a bit of a google and came up with a couple of threads on here about high powered bulbs and the 2 relays behind the clocks.Took the screen off and found the relays, no click from either of them when I turn the ignition on. I checked everything and no sidelights, headlights, tail light, full beam off the toggle switch, brake light or horn. The lights come on if you press the pass light ok and if you put the key in the park light position of the ignition the side lights and the rear tail lights come on so no issue with the wiring to either.Today I took the 4 pin relay out and looped the 2 power connectiors that go into it and the headlights came on (but no side lights or rear lights still).
So I am thinking there is definitely a problem with the 4 pin relay, the question is, would this effect the tail light, brake light and horn?
Any help gratefully appreciated.

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #1 on:** 07 July 2019, 05:27:28 pm »

Relays?

The box eye doesnt use any relays as standard. I would have though the fox eye was the same

StuartGSXR · « **Reply #2 on:** 07 July 2019, 05:28:57 pm »

Quote from: BBROWN1664 on 07 July 2019, 05:27:28 pm

Relays?

The box eye doesnt use any relays as standard. I would have though the fox eye was the same

You are wrong, The Foxeye is different, there is a 4 pin and a 5 pin one behind the clocks..

I found that out from the other posts on this forum lol.
5JJ-81950-10 and 5JJ-81950-20

unfazed · « **Reply #3 on:** 07 July 2019, 06:28:06 pm »

Quote from: StuartGSXR on 07 July 2019, 04:27:41 pm

Hi one and all.
New to the club and sorry to be starting with a problem. I ended up here after doing a google search of my issue so here I am.
I have a 2003 Foxeye 600, it is used as my commuter and does 70 miles a day 4 or 5 days a week. In November last year I upgraded the headlight bulbs but they are the 60/55 versions so no probs there. I always have my headlights on even in the day time so the headlight switch is always in the on position.

On the way to work on Friday, I noticed near the end of my journey that I could not see the reflection of my lights in the car in front. Got to work and sure enough no headlights. Turned the bike off, checked the fuse and all good. Took one of the bulbs out and all good, refitted the bulb and put the ignition on and all was well. At the end of the day, turned the ignition on and lights came on nd started to ride home. Again, when I was nearly home it was clear no headlights were on, got home and checked and sure enough they were off. Did a bit of a google and came up with a couple of threads on here about high powered bulbs and the 2 relays behind the clocks.
Took the screen off and found the relays, no click from either of them when I turn the ignition on. I checked everything and no sidelights, headlights, tail light, full beam off the toggle switch, brake light or horn. The lights come on if you press the pass light ok and if you put the key in the park light position of the ignition the side lights and the rear tail lights come on so no issue with the wiring to either.Today I took the 4 pin relay out and looped the 2 power connectiors that go into it and the headlights came on (but no side lights or rear lights still).
So I am thinking there is definitely a problem with the 4 pin relay, the question is, would this effect the tail light, brake light and horn?
Any help gratefully appreciated.

Strip the right hand handle bar switch and clean the contacts first as that is the only common link between the parking lights and headlights when ignition switch is on. Many small bits in the switch take care when taking it apart.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #4 on:** 07 July 2019, 06:39:03 pm »

could it be something to do with the signalling system fuse? maybe a bad connection. he mentioned his horn wasn't working

StuartGSXR · « **Reply #5 on:** 07 July 2019, 06:56:09 pm »

Indicators is one of the few things that is working!

I am hoping that it is all to do with the 4 pin relay as all the issues started at the same time. Maybe the relay feeds power to the 5 pin relay as well and the sidelights, tail lights and brake light.. I dont know, for a bike with so little technology in its causing a lot of head scratching here!

The relays are £40 each (and thats trade price!) so I am hoping it id only one of them.
The fact the sidelights and tail lights work with the key in park, the full beam works off the pass switch and the dipped beam works if I loop the power connector pins on the 4 pin relay makes me think its nothing to do with wiring and switches but I will have a look inside the light switch tomorrow as well.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #6 on:** 07 July 2019, 08:24:14 pm »

That signaling system fuse gives power to the horn, the brake lights and the light switch which give power to the control side of the four pin relay so it's worth checking. I'd check that the fuse is nice and tight and has good clean contact. It's an easy thing to check and rule out anyway or just go straight for unfazed suggestion since he's right 99% of the time

The wiring diagram is at the end of that manual http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=5

StuartGSXR · « **Reply #7 on:** 07 July 2019, 08:44:47 pm »

Quote from: His Dudeness on 07 July 2019, 08:24:14 pm

That signaling system fuse gives power to the horn, the brake lights and the light switch which give power to the control side of the four pin relay so it's worth checking. I'd check that the fuse is nice and tight and has good clean contact. It's an easy thing to check and rule out anyway or just go straight for unfazed suggestion since he's right 99% of the time The wiring diagram is at the end of that manual http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=5

Good thought, although I am thinking the wiring must have power up to the 4 pin relay as I unplugged the relay and looped the 2 power connectors in the block and the headlights came on.
Unfazed was the one who came up with the relays advice in the other threads I found via google so will defo have a look at the switch as well.

Grib · « **Reply #8 on:** 07 July 2019, 08:54:23 pm »

There are two lots of power to the relays though, the power being switched and the power to operate the relay. You have the power being switched, as proved by looping it at the relay connector and making the headlights work. But what His Dudeness is saying is that the signal circuit, which operates the relay, may be at fault.

StuartGSXR · « **Reply #9 on:** 07 July 2019, 09:00:02 pm »

Got you. I will change the indicator fuse tomorrow and clean the connectors in the fuse box just in case. But yeah, as the indicators are working I am thinking that should be ok, but then the horn and rear light and brake light... grr

Frosties · « **Reply #10 on:** 07 July 2019, 10:08:28 pm »

Relays can be temperamental when old - especially in high temperatures as it was Friday (coils are tired and heat up with use causing the relay not to be effective). I'd be looking at replacing the 4 pin relay due to age. Just my 2p

His Dudeness · « **Reply #11 on:** 07 July 2019, 10:14:31 pm »

Quote from: Grib on 07 July 2019, 08:54:23 pm

There are two lots of power to the relays though, the power being switched and the power to operate the relay. You have the power being switched, as proved by looping it at the relay connector and making the headlights work. But what His Dudeness is saying is that the signal circuit, which operates the relay, may be at fault.

Yep and the horn gets it's power on that circuit too so the fact that the horn was dodgy might suggest the fuse connection is dodgy, a long shot but worth checking. The indicators are on a different circuit. They get power through "turn signal fuse". Have a look at the wiring diagram in that link.

StuartGSXR · « **Reply #12 on:** 07 July 2019, 10:20:31 pm »

Got you... the one I thought was the turn signal fuse is the 10 amp one you are talking about... seems the turn signal fuse is not in that box at all!I will change that 10 amp fuse tomorrow and check it from there.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #13 on:** 07 July 2019, 10:59:38 pm »

Quote from: Frosties on 07 July 2019, 10:08:28 pm

Relays can be temperamental when old - especially in high temperatures as it was Friday (coils are tired and heat up with use causing the relay not to be effective). I'd be looking at replacing the 4 pin relay due to age. Just my 2p

A dodgy relay wouldn't explain the horn not working

unfazed · « **Reply #14 on:** 07 July 2019, 11:11:44 pm »

I missed the bit about the horn not working.

The Pass switch takes its power directly from the 20A fuse headlight fuse and bypasses the relays and the right hand light switch. It proves the headlight fuse is working and the headlight main beams are working. The headlights in normal working mode have their own fuse and the signalling fuse switches on the 4 pin relay which runs power through the second 5 pin relay. This relay is used to switch from dims to heads.
Use a process of elimination. The 4 pin relay has nothing to do with the parking light or horn. Lift the tank and check all the connection in the black box. It sounds more like a corroded connection and since all the power and earths come back via connectors in that black box it is a good thing to check.

His Dudeness · « **Reply #15 on:** 07 July 2019, 11:26:12 pm »

I think the power for pass comes from the headlight fuse not the signaling fuse

StuartGSXR · « **Reply #16 on:** 07 July 2019, 11:31:38 pm »

Thanks for all the help. Where does the power for the rear brake / tail light come from as that’s not working either?

His Dudeness · « **Reply #17 on:** 07 July 2019, 11:41:11 pm »

The brake light comes from the signaling fuse. The rear light comes straight from the ignition switch so once the ignition is on the rear light should be on.

unfazed · « **Reply #18 on:** 08 July 2019, 01:20:27 am »

Quote from: His Dudeness on 07 July 2019, 11:26:12 pm

I think the power for pass comes from the headlight fuse not the signaling fuse

Should not write these using my phone, Pass is headlight fuse Brake light is signalling fuse

StuartGSXR · « **Reply #19 on:** 08 July 2019, 08:16:21 am »

Ok, well the signalling fuse was fine but I changed it anyway, still no change. As the tail lights light up ok when the ignition is switched to park lights I did not think it would be the problem... although even with that fuse out the park lights work. If the only thing they need to work is the fuse and ignition being on it should be simple, but then the brake light is not working either.

I am thinking its got to be one thing that is causing all these issues. as my bike is a daily rider, its not like its stuff that could have built up over time. It had its MOT a couple of weeks ago so the horn and rear lights would have definitely been working then. I am still thinking that it is relay related although I do not get how it could be effecting the rear lights or the horn unless there is some sort of rerturn feed via one of the relays.

I have spoken to an electrics guy at work and he does not think the relays are at fault as they only control the headlights. With the list of things not working he thinks it is more likely there is a major wire in the loom somewhere that supplies all the things that are not working which is not connecting as it should.
This is fun

unfazed · « **Reply #20 on:** 08 July 2019, 03:26:44 pm »

If fuses are ok the only other common point is the earth. Easily checked by applying an good earth to the black wire on the 4 pin relay and if everything now works you have an earth problem.

StuartGSXR · « **Reply #21 on:** 08 July 2019, 03:35:55 pm »

Just checked all the fuses with a multimeter and all good, tried running an earth to the black wire on the 4 pin relay and no change.

I really dunno, I don't think it can be the relay with the amount of unrelated other things that arent working. There has to be a bad connection in the wiring somewhere or something.
Its not being easy to fix!

BBROWN1664 · « **Reply #22 on:** 08 July 2019, 05:24:29 pm »

Having looked at the wiring diagram from the downloads section (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=45), the relays only deal with the high/low beam element.

Given all the faults you have, I would look at the one common thing, the ignition switch cables/connectors.

StuartGSXR · « **Reply #23 on:** 08 July 2019, 07:06:31 pm »

Yeah thats the conclusion we came to. Maybe a common earth fault or a break in something.. going to try to take it to pieces more tomorrow and see how we get on

His Dudeness · « **Reply #24 on:** 08 July 2019, 07:57:57 pm »

Quote from: BBROWN1664 on 08 July 2019, 05:24:29 pm

Having looked at the wiring diagram from the downloads section (http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=45), the relays only deal with the high/low beam element.

Given all the faults you have, I would look at the one common thing, the ignition switch cables/connectors.

I don't think it can be at the ignition because if it was at the ignition he'd be loosing power to the starter relay and having intermittent starting problems but he doesn't have that so the connection at the ignition must be good because the bike is starting everytime.

Quote from: StuartGSXR on 08 July 2019, 08:16:21 am

Ok, well the signalling fuse was fine but I changed it anyway, still no change. As the tail lights light up ok when the ignition is switched to park lights I did not think it would be the problem... although even with that fuse out the park lights work. If the only thing they need to work is the fuse and ignition being on it should be simple, but then the brake light is not working either.

I am thinking its got to be one thing that is causing all these issues. as my bike is a daily rider, its not like its stuff that could have built up over time. It had its MOT a couple of weeks ago so the horn and rear lights would have definitely been working then. I am still thinking that it is relay related although I do not get how it could be effecting the rear lights or the horn unless there is some sort of rerturn feed via one of the relays.

I have spoken to an electrics guy at work and he does not think the relays are at fault as they only control the headlights. With the list of things not working he thinks it is more likely there is a major wire in the loom somewhere that supplies all the things that are not working which is not connecting as it should.
This is fun

The park circuit and the ON circuit are completely different so the tail light coming on when the key is in park doesn't rule out a problem on that signaling fuse circuit. When the key is in park power goes from the battery to the ignition then straight to the tail light.

Whereas when the key is in the ON position power goes from the battery to the ignition, then from the ignition it goes to the fuses including the signaling fuse, then from the signaling fuse it goes to the switch on the handlebar, then from the switch it goes back to the ignition, then from the ignition it goes to the tail light. So the park and ON circuit are totally different.

You've proved the signaling fuse connection is good but I don't think you've proved that there's power at the fuse. Have you got a multimeter or a test light and we can check for power at the fuse and then at each point along the circuit after the fuse?