Date: 21-07-19  Time: 10:04 AM

Author Topic: Side stand switch does nothing  (Read 837 times)

Steve3351

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Side stand switch does nothing
« on: 07 June 2019, 10:27:42 PM »
Hi Foccing electrical experts
my sidestand switch never worked...and i've often taken off with it down, without any major mishaps  ...yet.
I decided to have a look at it...switch itself looks OK, When I checked the (blue) connector under the seat I'm getting 0.6 volts....is this normal...?

ERK,,,, just realised that the two wires to the switch are not (+) and (-),,,must check them again...tomoro,,,using battery earth :rolleyes
« Last Edit: 07 June 2019, 11:11:13 PM by Steve3351 »

His Dudeness

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #1 on: 08 June 2019, 02:38:46 AM »
The sidestand switch could be bypassed. A lot of people bypass them when they start to give trouble because it's difficult to get the old one out. It's just a switch with two positions either open or closed. Bypassing it by joining the two wires together or by pushing a jumper wire into the connector is the same as the switch being permanently closed. When the stand is up the switch is closed, when the stand is down it's open. You can test it with a continuity test (the beeeeeep one). Follow the wires off the back of the sidestand. You should find a connector where it joins to the loom. Push your test probes into the connector, set the meter to continuity test. It should beeeeep with the stand up and not beeeeeep with the stand down. If it beeeeeeps all the time no matter whether the stand is up or down it must be bypassed. You could also test it by putting the meter to DC volts. Put the red lead on battery+, put the black lead on the blue/black wire (the switched ground). You should see 12V with the stand up and 0V with the stand down. If you see 12V all the time it would suggest the switch is bypassed. http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=5 That's the diagram where I got the blue/black wire from. I think that's the correct colour for your 2002 bike
I printed out DUDE'S instructions...even on paper they are pretty confusing...Has he been INGESTING some MIND ALTERING substance......???

darrsi

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #2 on: 08 June 2019, 09:55:35 AM »
You're not wrong about it being difficult to remove, it's certainly doable with the right tools and know how, but to the average person it's almost like they started with the switch then built the bike around it!
Mine's been bypassed.
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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #3 on: 08 June 2019, 10:03:59 AM »

darrsi

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #4 on: 08 June 2019, 12:26:40 PM »
I had occasional starting troubles for quite a long time, and bypassing the switch was one of the things that i did, but ever since i drenched my ignition switch (where you put the key in) with contact cleaner the bike now starts on the button first time every time and never plays up any more at all.
More people are born because of alcohol than will ever die from it.

Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #5 on: 08 June 2019, 12:38:22 PM »
Hi
Thanks for informations...
I checked the switch with Ohm meter and its working correctly...
I'm only getting 4.8 volts at the two wires feeding into the switch..and the bike starts up and drives off whether the sidestand is up or down... :\
is the voltage stepped down and connected to a relay...or is there summat fishy here...?

OR hold on...is the Ground switched...not the (+)...?

OK so yes the (-) is switched, not the(+).....so the switch is working but it just doesn't do anything...?!
« Last Edit: 08 June 2019, 12:47:53 PM by Steve3351 »

His Dudeness

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #6 on: 08 June 2019, 01:20:38 PM »
You should be getting 0V or very near 0V across any switch when it's closed no matter whether it's on a positive wire or a ground wire.

When you measure Voltage you're measuring the difference between the two points. If you put the two probes into the switch connector and put the meter on DC voltage you should see 0V or very near 0V with the switch closed. Think about what a switch is. It's just like a break in a wire. When it's closed it's as if there is no break so it's just one continuous wire so there should be no difference along a continuous wire as long as there's no unwanted resistance in the wire or in the switch, so the meter should show 0V when the switch is closed.

The switch is just providing a path to ground when it's closed. Ground is just the negative side of the battery.  There's nothing fancy about it. You should see no voltage across it when it's closed unless you connect the red lead of the meter to a point that's at a higher Voltage, like the battery+, and put the black lead into the switched ground(black/blue wire), then you should see 12V when the switch is closed.

What I'd do is make sure you're on the correct connector. Then do the continuity test. The meter should beep with the stand up and not beep with it down.
I printed out DUDE'S instructions...even on paper they are pretty confusing...Has he been INGESTING some MIND ALTERING substance......???

Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #7 on: 08 June 2019, 04:07:39 PM »
Thanks Dude
I did the continuity test and the switch is working.
on the supply side one wire gives me 12v, the other nothing, so when the switch is closed both would read 12v...
so all seem OK, just that the bike starts up and runs regardless of whether the sidestand is up or down :(

Of course I'm getting 12volts because I'm using the positive terminal of the battery, and connecting the black probe of the meter to the feed to the switch. One side 12v, the other 0v...so when the switch is closed both will be the same....?
« Last Edit: 08 June 2019, 04:16:43 PM by Steve3351 »

His Dudeness

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #8 on: 08 June 2019, 05:16:50 PM »
So if I understand correctly you put the red lead of the meter to battery+ and black lead to both sides of the switch connector? On one side of the connector the meter showed 12V all the time and on the other side it showed 0V and then 12V when the stand was up. Is that right? That seems like the switch is working correctly. The switch could be working but if the wires are joined together somewhere before the switch it doesn't matter if the switch is open or closed because the wires are already joined together.

You're not feeding power to the switch with the meter.  The switch doesn't need power. It's just joining two sides of the same wire together or breaking it. What you're doing with the meter is measuring the difference in Voltage between the two points. The two points you picked where battery + and the switch. The switch is a connection battery negative when it's closed so that's why you see 12V on the meter when it's closed and the stand is up. You're basically measuring voltage between battery positive and negative.

I think you're thinking about the two wires as if the switch is a load like a light bulb, where one wire is positive and the other is negative. It's not a load, it's not doing any work, it's just a switch. The two wires going to it are basically the same wire in a loop with a switch in the loop. I think the switch is working but the wires are joined together somewhere
I printed out DUDE'S instructions...even on paper they are pretty confusing...Has he been INGESTING some MIND ALTERING substance......???

Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #9 on: 08 June 2019, 08:01:21 PM »
Yes i understand wot u explained...I tested the switch with the Ohm meter on the switch side of the connector..working.
I tested the voltage on the other side of the connector..one side runs to earth, the other dosn't...so with the switch closed both run to earth..as intended, presumably...if u see wot I mean...
it seems like the switch is working and is opening / closing an earth circuit...but nothing is happening..!
« Last Edit: 08 June 2019, 08:03:09 PM by Steve3351 »

His Dudeness

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #10 on: 08 June 2019, 10:29:59 PM »
If the switch has no effect the two wires going to the switch must be connected together or the contacts in the switch must be connected together and aren't moving. You could try unplugging the switch from the loom and see if the bike cuts out when you put it in gear. It should since unplugging it is the same as the stand being down. If it doesn't cut out then the wires must be joined in the main loom
I printed out DUDE'S instructions...even on paper they are pretty confusing...Has he been INGESTING some MIND ALTERING substance......???

unfazed

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #11 on: 08 June 2019, 11:04:59 PM »
A starnge one as the Ignitor (ECU) requires that earth to operate which means it has to be getting an earth from somewhere.
It sounds like a short circuit to earth in the loom. There has been reports of the loom fraying under the seat  on the route to the Ignitor under the tail fairing
The earth from the sidestand switch after leaving the sidestand switch goes through the Ignition switch, the one of the looped plugs under the seat and then to the Ignitor.
Lift the seat and locate the two looped plugs the earth from the sidestand switch goes through one of those loops.
Ensure the ignition is off and sidestand up, put you meter to the continuty (OHM) scale. Disconnet the connectors (one at the time) and check for and earth on the plugs, if you find an earth on one, put the sidestand down and see if it disappears. This means the earth from the switch is getting this far.
Let me know the result

His Dudeness

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #12 on: 08 June 2019, 11:27:19 PM »
Could also be that someone has removed an alarm in the past and joined the one of the black wires under the seat to ground so the ignitor is getting a permanent ground
I printed out DUDE'S instructions...even on paper they are pretty confusing...Has he been INGESTING some MIND ALTERING substance......???

Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #13 on: 09 June 2019, 09:41:51 AM »
Thanks for the tips...am away for a couple of days but will get onto this when i get back :z

His Dudeness

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #14 on: 11 June 2019, 06:34:32 PM »
Another thing that could cause the side stand to have no effect would be if the neutral switch was short to ground. The ignitor would be getting the ground it needs all the time so the side stand would have no effect but if that was happening you would expect to see the neutral indicator light on all the time even when the bike was in gear.
I printed out DUDE'S instructions...even on paper they are pretty confusing...Has he been INGESTING some MIND ALTERING substance......???

Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #15 on: 11 June 2019, 11:27:56 PM »
the neutral light behaves normally. ...so i don't think the problem is there..
when i get a chance i'm going to follow Unfazed's route to the igniter...wotever that is...I'm at the limit...of my electrical know how :fish

Disorderlypunk

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #16 on: 12 June 2019, 12:27:27 AM »
quickly skim read while having a few beers and bloody hell it doesnt read well
first - stop testing voltages on a switch, you need to test continuity that is what matters (on switch testing anyhow)
set your voltage tester to the little symbol that probably looks like a speaker and it beeps when you touch your two probes together
pull the plug from the side switch to main loom and put a probe on each wire switch side (pulling the plugs seperate any false connectivity elsewhere)
press/depress the switch a few times and you should get a beep beep beep (cant remember the config on sidestand)
my guess is the beep will be continuous and the switch needs a good spray with contact cleaner when pressed in or stripped down and cleaned if possible, if its beep beep beep then the switch is fine


Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #17 on: 12 June 2019, 11:10:05 AM »
Er yes...have moved on past the switch issue....seems to be a problem up the line :b

Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #18 on: 12 June 2019, 01:05:26 PM »
This for UNFAZED...
the switch is definitely working. The two wires from the connector (black and blue/yellow) disappear into the loom.
I see under the seat someone has opened the loom, there is a lump of taped off wiring...and two red/blue wires going to a 10amp fuse labelled PARK.
I,m inclined to leave all as is...sidestand switch not operating is not too important,,,, :(

His Dudeness

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #19 on: 12 June 2019, 02:02:15 PM »
That's the circuit for when you turn the key to park. It has nothing to do with the problem. You're looking for two connectors together, under the seat with only black wires going to them. They are the connectors for the alarm.
When you started the thread I'm sure it said you had a 2002 bike under your name. Now it says 00-01. That's a different wiring diagram  http://foc-u.co.uk/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=4
I printed out DUDE'S instructions...even on paper they are pretty confusing...Has he been INGESTING some MIND ALTERING substance......???

Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #20 on: 12 June 2019, 02:33:22 PM »
ER yes...the bike is registered 2002 but its a 5DMC 070C... the 2001 model I think...I,m not going any further with the sidestand switch issue... too complicated for me.
Just fer the craic...this is wot i am looking at....the blue connector is the sidestand switch earth circuit... :evil

« Last Edit: 12 June 2019, 03:24:56 PM by Steve3351 »

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #21 on: 12 June 2019, 08:55:06 PM »
This for UNFAZED...
the switch is definitely working. The two wires from the connector (black and blue/yellow) disappear into the loom.
I see under the seat someone has opened the loom, there is a lump of taped off wiring...and two red/blue wires going to a 10amp fuse labelled PARK.
I,m inclined to leave all as is...sidestand switch not operating is not too important,,,, :(
Therein lies your problem, looks like someone disconnected an alarm and taped up all the wires, but earthed the side stand switch wire.

Untape the wires and see how good the connections are inside. Post a picture, it is not the most difficult thing in the world to check the wiring if you can use a meter to check for continunity.
You only need to leave the sidestand down once  :eek :'(


Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #22 on: 12 June 2019, 10:31:40 PM »
OK thanks...will post pic tomoro :\

Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #23 on: 13 June 2019, 02:04:31 PM »
Hi...this is wots wrapped up under the seat.......!!! :eek
« Last Edit: 13 June 2019, 02:06:25 PM by Steve3351 »

Steve3351

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Re: Side stand switch does nothing
« Reply #24 on: 13 June 2019, 04:13:17 PM »
ACTUALLY...
when i untangled the nest of wires, it's just seven blank wires. six black and one black/red....so i have tidied up.
I don't thik this can have any bearing on sidestand switch issue.....?
 :\