Date: 26-06-19  Time: 13:39 PM

Author Topic: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain  (Read 581 times)

fazersharp

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Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« on: 03 May 2019, 07:26:11 PM »
I read that the very best way is to measure from the swing arm but the rear axle has a hole in it which you need to find the centre of. So I came up with an idea to thread a wodden dowel through it. But one side is bigger then the other and it wouldn't work just waggling around so I took the slack up with some spacers so the dowel is held in the centre.
Its the same at the swing arm as each side is a different size hole but I got around that one by sanding down the dowel at one end.Now I can pull a tape measure across which is hanging off the dowel. And I have cut the swing arm dowel flush with the frame and marked the centre with a pen.
I think I will refine it further by also cutting the spindle one flush and adding a small headless nail to the centre end then use a metal ruler with a pin hole in the wide flat face to slot over my nail and then I can mark the other end on the thin edge of the ruler that lines up with the swing arm dowel pen mark. That way a stiff metal ruler is better than a bendy tape measure.   

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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #1 on: 04 May 2019, 01:28:35 AM »
That's a great idea  :thumbup

darrsi

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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #2 on: 04 May 2019, 11:14:27 AM »
Might wanna clean that sawdust up fella, it's making the bike look filthy.
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #3 on: 04 May 2019, 11:53:47 AM »
Cheers for sharing, I'm going to be giving this a try  :thumbup

fazersharp

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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #4 on: 04 May 2019, 12:07:39 PM »
Cheers for sharing, I'm going to be giving this a try  :thumbup
To avoid any parallax error ( there's something you don't often hear on a motorbike forum )  when I cut the dowel flush with the rear axle and add a nail I deed to make sure that when I hang the metal edge that it is the same distance away from the swing arm face. Because one side of the spindle sticks out more than the other. 
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #5 on: 04 May 2019, 03:38:03 PM »
get it patented and on JML
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #6 on: 04 May 2019, 08:13:53 PM »
Ive ytried 3 different ways of alignment. Ive used the marks on the swingarm, ive used a metal straight edge on the faces of the sprockets, and ive used the 2 strings between the front and rear tyres method. Using any of the three puts the other two out

darrsi

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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #7 on: 05 May 2019, 08:40:08 AM »
Ive ytried 3 different ways of alignment. Ive used the marks on the swingarm, ive used a metal straight edge on the faces of the sprockets, and ive used the 2 strings between the front and rear tyres method. Using any of the three puts the other two out


Start with the markings, spin the wheel backwards, then eyes and ears works for me. It'll be quite obvious if it's misaligned, and also obvious when it is straight when it just purrs with no chain movement or clunky noises.
It's very important that the bar connected to the caliper is loosened off first, then just take time slowly nipping each side up using the adjustment nuts.
Not something you want to rush, because once it's done it stays in position and unless you're ragging the bike regularly it will rarely need any adjustment for ages. 
« Last Edit: 05 May 2019, 04:46:08 PM by darrsi »
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agricola

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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #8 on: 05 May 2019, 04:22:56 PM »
Ive ytried 3 different ways of alignment. Ive used the marks on the swingarm, ive used a metal straight edge on the faces of the sprockets, and ive used the 2 strings between the front and rear tyres method. Using any of the three puts the other two out


Start with the markings, spin the wheel backwards, then eyes and ears works for me. It'll be quite obvious if it's misaligned, and also obvious when it is straight when it just purrs with no chain movement or clunky noises.
It's very important that the bar connected to the caliper is loosened off first, then just take time slowly nipping each side up using the adjustment nuts.
Not something you want to rush, because once it's done it stays in position for ages and unless you're ragging the bike regularly it will rarely need any adjustment for ages.


Thats where Im at now. Spin the wheel and look how the teeth enter/leave the chain. Cant be too far out, done 2 trackdays like that with no hassle and no signs of undue wear and tear. Im happy

fazersharp

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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #9 on: 06 May 2019, 01:00:43 PM »
Ive ytried 3 different ways of alignment. Ive used the marks on the swingarm, ive used a metal straight edge on the faces of the sprockets, and ive used the 2 strings between the front and rear tyres method. Using any of the three puts the other two out


Start with the markings, spin the wheel backwards, then eyes and ears works for me. It'll be quite obvious if it's misaligned, and also obvious when it is straight when it just purrs with no chain movement or clunky noises.
It's very important that the bar connected to the caliper is loosened off first, then just take time slowly nipping each side up using the adjustment nuts.
Not something you want to rush, because once it's done it stays in position for ages and unless you're ragging the bike regularly it will rarely need any adjustment for ages.


Thats where Im at now. Spin the wheel and look how the teeth enter/leave the chain. Cant be too far out, done 2 trackdays like that with no hassle and no signs of undue wear and tear. Im happy
The problem I have right now trying to do it by ear is that it sounds a mess with the sprocket noise dampening orange bit falling apart and a tight spot in the chain. 

Also how do we know that by lining up the wheels that you are lining up the sprockets. Or how do we know that measuring to the swing arm is either lining up the wheels or lining up the sprockets.
Surely to line up the sprockets you need to get access to the face of them and do it from there, but then that will not necessarily mean that the wheels are lined up. As it has been noticed that you seem to get one right and it puts the other out.         
« Last Edit: 06 May 2019, 01:08:21 PM by fazersharp »
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darrsi

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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #10 on: 06 May 2019, 02:16:38 PM »
But the whole point of this post is to replace everything with shiny new parts.
If the front sprocket isn't straight on a flat surface then you're doomed anyway.
But after that is on, the way i explained above works perfectly well.
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fazersharp

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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #11 on: 06 May 2019, 02:39:21 PM »
But the whole point of this post is to replace everything with shiny new parts.

No - that's my other post on the FZS600 section. But yes I am sure that with everything new I will be able to do it by ear. I have found though that in the past the markings on the swing arm are accurate but when I get my new stuff on I will  "see" what I can hear  :lol
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #12 on: 06 May 2019, 07:04:43 PM »
You'll have to nip up each side very gradually anyway, so even using a measuring tool you could still be out.
Just half a turn of an adjuster nut can tighten the chain up when it's near the business end but the measurements wouldn't alter that much so spinning the wheel reveals much more if it's running true or not.
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #13 on: 06 May 2019, 08:28:07 PM »
Before I adjust the wheel I draw around the washer on the swing arm with a very fine pen which adds a 1 mm line I can then pull back the wheel on each side so the washer has just covered the pen. I then remove the pen ad draw a new ring so that I can very quickly see it is has moved - you can see in in my other pictures a few posts ago. 
« Last Edit: 06 May 2019, 08:30:21 PM by fazersharp »
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #14 on: 07 May 2019, 06:41:21 AM »
You'll know that it's moved, because you would have just turned the adjuster nut to move it, lol.
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #15 on: 07 May 2019, 10:46:50 AM »
You'll know that it's moved, because you would have just turned the adjuster nut to move it, lol.
I meant after its all done up and I have ridden it.
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #16 on: 07 May 2019, 12:29:48 PM »
You'll know that it's moved, because you would have just turned the adjuster nut to move it, lol.
I meant after its all done up and I have ridden it.

Have you actually specifically identified the seized link in the chain?
The reason I ask is because if the chain wasn't aligned properly it could give you a similar feeling through the foot peg.
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #17 on: 07 May 2019, 03:13:03 PM »
You'll know that it's moved, because you would have just turned the adjuster nut to move it, lol.
I meant after its all done up and I have ridden it.

Have you actually specifically identified the seized link in the chain?
The reason I ask is because if the chain wasn't aligned properly it could give you a similar feeling through the foot peg.
Yes defiantly have a stiff un. I had 2 or 3 that were not very free and I worked on them with 2 pairs of pliers and oil and freed them up better than they were but still not good.
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #18 on: 13 May 2019, 11:01:38 PM »
Job now done and I now have the old off and can inspect a little easier. 1 link is stiff and wont bend by hand beyond 20 degrees, about 6 others are movable but stiffer than most and some links are even floppy. The new spindle position is about 1 cm nearer to the swingarm.Its a joy not to have the banging through the peg anymore.Somthing I noticed when measuring the distance from the spindle washer is that there is very slight play in the washer on the sprocket side - the loose washer which gives a false measurement if you use the marks on the swing arm or measure the distance to the adjuster plate. So measuring with my little stick through the spindle and swing arm has to be the most accurate way.
36 inch bolt croppers 1 - old chain 0   
« Last Edit: 13 May 2019, 11:06:48 PM by fazersharp »
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #19 on: 24 June 2019, 02:29:12 PM »
Thought I had added these pictures but apparently not. Here is the refined design with a small pin added to the centre of the dowel. Its actually a 1.5mm drill bit. The 1m aluminium ruler has a matching hole so I can hang the ruler off it. The hole in the ruler is dead centre of its width.
The picture shows the top just because its easier to take the picture. I can use the top of the ruler but on the exhaust side there is not enough room to drop the ruler to use its top edge so I use the bottom edge on both sides of the bike.
The ruler measurement markings are irrelevant all you need is a metal strip and use a pen to make a mark on its edge. A strip of metal is better than my first design of using a tape measure.   
In the first picture I have pulled the ruler away but when I measure I push it all the way to the spindle end. Interesting as I drew a mark around washer with the old chain and you can still see it and it shows the difference between the new and old chain stretch (wear  ;) ).
« Last Edit: 24 June 2019, 02:37:24 PM by fazersharp »
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #20 on: 25 June 2019, 12:40:27 AM »
what a fucking rigmarole  :lol
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #21 on: 25 June 2019, 12:46:37 AM »
I'm just going to see how complicated I can making an octopus strap go over my seat.
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #22 on: 25 June 2019, 12:50:16 AM »
can't find my micrometer or vernier guage.
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Re: Wheel alignment Idea for the Chain
« Reply #23 on: 25 June 2019, 11:10:42 AM »
what a fucking rigmarole  :lol


Like i said, spin the wheel then look and listen works for me, but, each to their own.  :lol
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